On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 21:04:33 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:

That's how Jesus was.

How do you know?

--
Maggie

On 7/18/2015 5:11 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 16:34:34 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I figure sin is sin, regardless of the sin. None is more severe than
another.


Ah, so a man who steals a pencil from work is
just as guilty as a armed guy who shoots up
a military recruiting center?
Your prison must be full of petty crooks doing
double life?

Define double life, please. After one life sentence, are they buried
standing up until the other life sentence is served and then buried
horizontal on Pecker Wood Hill? Finally laid to rest...


There are at least a few things I do not understand,
and the double life sentence is one such.

I sense there is a bit of symbolism involved, but
not much practical value.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 7/18/2015 5:11 PM, Oren wrote:

What if a man sticks his penis in a vagina and falls asleep. Is it the
same as adultery? Taking a pen from work is called pilfering.


If the two actors are not married to each other,
yes, adultery. I don't know the legal def'n, but
suspect the law doesn't specify staying awake.

I'd thought taking a pen from work is petit
larceny?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 7/18/2015 11:47 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Actually, the question is so SMART that you are afraid to answer it.
That's how Jesus rolled, we all know that. We all know that Jesus
would never act like those bigoted bakers. Sure, Jesus might tell the
gay person that he thought what they were doing was a sin but he
would never discriminate against them. If you don't understand that
then you don't understand Jesus.


How about some physical action, then?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/21?lang=eng

12 ¶And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that
sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the
moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the
house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

(Matthew chapter 21, King James Version)


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 7/18/2015 11:48 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 08:04:00 -0400, Stormin Mormon
Nothing I read in the bible suggests Jesus would be
the bigot

Jesus called the religious people white washed seplucres full of dead
mens bones, and threw the money changers out of the temple because they
had turned the place into a den of thieves. You don't appear to know
anything about Jesus. He looked at people straight up and read their
mail to therm, pointed at their sin and called it evil, and then told
them to turn from their wicked ways and change their lives... You want
to a ask if Jesus would bake gays a cake? That's the most ignorant
question I've ever seen anyone ask..

I tried to answer Ashton's questions, but I do
think you did a little better than I. Very well
done, my friend.


Interesting that you folks think Jesus is a bigot.


Your mind reading really sucks. Your name calling
is extreme. Hmm. Oh, wait, you're a liberal?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 7/18/2015 11:56 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 07:56:11 -0400, Stormin Mormon

If they continued to sin, there is a very good
chance Jesus would decline to bake the cake.

According to the Latter-day prophets, homosexual
behavior is a very severe sin.

You don't know Jesus.


That's a very bold accusation, considering
that we have never met in person, and you
don't know me very well. My respect for you
just went down, a LOT.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 7/19/2015 12:20 AM, Muggles wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 20:54:07 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:
that's a sin." Have you read the bible? That's not
how the Prince of Peace does things. He loves all,
including the sinners. He'd

Who do you say Jesus is?


I'm starting to wonder. Ashton appears to be
completely convinced that he has a complete
and correct understanding of Jesus. And that
he has a complete understanding of what
others believe. That's pretty bold.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 7/19/2015 8:11 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/18/2015 5:11 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 16:34:34 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I figure sin is sin, regardless of the sin. None is more severe than
another.


Ah, so a man who steals a pencil from work is
just as guilty as a armed guy who shoots up
a military recruiting center?
Your prison must be full of petty crooks doing
double life?

Define double life, please. After one life sentence, are they buried
standing up until the other life sentence is served and then buried
horizontal on Pecker Wood Hill? Finally laid to rest...


There are at least a few things I do not understand,
and the double life sentence is one such.

I sense there is a bit of symbolism involved, but
not much practical value.


If the state's laws do not permit sentencing to a determinate time
WITHOUT POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE, then the way to defeat that and keep the
offender incarcerated is to sentence to consecutive life terms. Parole
almost always requires a certain percentage of a sentence be served
before becoming eligible for consideration (33% - 50%, perhaps).

So if you get some goof who kills six people and sentence him to five
100 yrs terms, to be served consecutively, he's done.

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:

On 7/18/2015 5:11 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 16:34:34 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I figure sin is sin, regardless of the sin. None is more severe than
another.


Ah, so a man who steals a pencil from work is
just as guilty as a armed guy who shoots up
a military recruiting center?
Your prison must be full of petty crooks doing
double life?

Define double life, please. After one life sentence, are they buried
standing up until the other life sentence is served and then buried
horizontal on Pecker Wood Hill? Finally laid to rest...


There are at least a few things I do not understand,
and the double life sentence is one such.

I sense there is a bit of symbolism involved, but
not much practical value.

Depends a little on the jurisdiction and sentencing guidelines. In some
areas "life" can mean you are eligible for parole after a certain amount
of time. Two life sentences (especially if they are to run
consecutively) doubles the amount of time. Others may be because if one
is overturned, you can keep the person incarcerated on the other while
sorting out the first one. Finally, it can be more or less a political
decision where they have multiple victims and all families wants someone
to officially go down for their person's murder.
--
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.²
‹ Aaron Levenstein

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 09:13:50 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I'd thought taking a pen from work is petit
larceny?

Depends on policy. If requisitioned through the warehouse and issued,
you can take them home. Federal government documents (log books,
records, etc.) must be in black ink only. But I get you point. An
expendable item.

On 7/19/2015 8:26 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/19/2015 12:20 AM, Muggles wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 20:54:07 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:
that's a sin." Have you read the bible? That's not
how the Prince of Peace does things. He loves all,
including the sinners. He'd

Who do you say Jesus is?


I'm starting to wonder. Ashton appears to be
completely convinced that he has a complete
and correct understanding of Jesus. And that
he has a complete understanding of what
others believe. That's pretty bold.


I think he's just trolling.

--
Maggie

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 08:28:32 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:


So if you get some goof who kills six people and sentence him to five
100 yrs terms, to be served consecutively, he's done.

Did you see the story of the Harrisburg, PA Mayor? He is facing 2,039
(?) YEARS

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 09:11:40 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

There are at least a few things I do not understand,
and the double life sentence is one such.

I sense there is a bit of symbolism involved, but
not much practical value.

Each crime has a sentence. A judge could give a guy Life + 1
consecutive day sentence. He has to serve life so he can serve the
one day. There is also a "natural life" meaning until he dies.

Some sentences are symbolic. Judge "throws the book" at the guy. His
intent is meant to make sure the crook is never released - ever.

"But Judge, I can't that do that much time!"

Judge says, "Do what you can son, do what you can."

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 09:35:29 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

I sense there is a bit of symbolism involved, but
not much practical value.

Depends a little on the jurisdiction and sentencing guidelines. In some
areas "life" can mean you are eligible for parole after a certain amount
of time. Two life sentences (especially if they are to run
consecutively) doubles the amount of time. Others may be because if one
is overturned, you can keep the person incarcerated on the other while
sorting out the first one. Finally, it can be more or less a political
decision where they have multiple victims and all families wants someone
to officially go down for their person's murder.

Some crooks are prosecuted in dual jurisdictions. A guy was convicted
in federal court for murdering his sister, BIL and niece on a federal
reservation. IIRC he got 3 consecutive life, plus some. Texas also
convicted him in state court. They had a detainer on him. When he
finishes his fed time, he has to go to Texas and serve ~ 185 (?)
years.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 10:53:27 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 08:28:32 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:


So if you get some goof who kills six people and sentence him to five
100 yrs terms, to be served consecutively, he's done.

Did you see the story of the Harrisburg, PA Mayor? He is facing 2,039
(?) YEARS

"...almost 500 criminal charges"

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2015/07/19/a-former-harrisburg-mayor-a-vampire-hunting-kit-criminal-charges/

In article ,
Oren wrote:

Some crooks are prosecuted in dual jurisdictions. A guy was convicted
in federal court for murdering his sister, BIL and niece on a federal
reservation. IIRC he got 3 consecutive life, plus some. Texas also
convicted him in state court. They had a detainer on him. When he
finishes his fed time, he has to go to Texas and serve ~ 185 (?)
years.

Sorta surprised, given that it was Texas that they didn't decide to fry
him and take jurisdiction. (grin)
--
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital."
-- Aaron Levenstein

On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 1:33:55 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 10:53:27 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 08:28:32 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:


So if you get some goof who kills six people and sentence him to five
100 yrs terms, to be served consecutively, he's done.

Did you see the story of the Harrisburg, PA Mayor? He is facing 2,039
(?) YEARS

"...almost 500 criminal charges"

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2015/07/19/a-former-harrisburg-mayor-a-vampire-hunting-kit-criminal-charges/

I just had to laugh when I heard that on the TV news. Some people need to be hanged in public especially criminal politicians. That would certainly act as a deterrent for those folks. I recall reading something about The Romans getting a senator for committing a crime, they didn't just kill him, they killed his whole family including the slaves. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Roman Monster

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 14:39:29 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Oren wrote:

Some crooks are prosecuted in dual jurisdictions. A guy was convicted
in federal court for murdering his sister, BIL and niece on a federal
reservation. IIRC he got 3 consecutive life, plus some. Texas also
convicted him in state court. They had a detainer on him. When he
finishes his fed time, he has to go to Texas and serve ~ 185 (?)
years.

Sorta surprised, given that it was Texas that they didn't decide to fry
him and take jurisdiction. (grin)

Sometimes the feds and the state argue over who gets him first. Each
jurisdiction can decide which is the best case. Usually cost of the
trial, politics, power, etc., plays into who has the trump card.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 11:45:38 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Sunday, July 19, 2015 at 1:33:55 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 10:53:27 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 08:28:32 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:


So if you get some goof who kills six people and sentence him to five
100 yrs terms, to be served consecutively, he's done.

Did you see the story of the Harrisburg, PA Mayor? He is facing 2,039
(?) YEARS

"...almost 500 criminal charges"

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2015/07/19/a-former-harrisburg-mayor-a-vampire-hunting-kit-criminal-charges/

I just had to laugh when I heard that on the TV news. Some people need to be hanged in public especially criminal politicians. That would certainly act as a deterrent for those folks. I recall reading something about The Romans getting a senator for committing a crime, they didn't just kill him, they killed his whole family including the slaves. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Roman Monster

I didn't know he had been Mayor for 30 years.

https://tinyurl.com/pwy24mb

Do you need a Vampire Hunter's Set?

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 12:50:39 -0500, Muggles wrote:

I'm starting to wonder. Ashton appears to be
completely convinced that he has a complete
and correct understanding of Jesus. And that
he has a complete understanding of what
others believe. That's pretty bold.


I think he's just trolling.

In fairness to Ashton, he is not a troll. Been around for a long
time. He is dug in and stands by his opinion. Now, tossing the word
"bigot" around is just plain silly.

A bigot doesn't like anybody. If they are gay, queer, carpet muncher's
or what. A bigot doesn't like them.

Any public business has a right to refuse service. No shoes, No shirt,
Three heads, No Service. Period.

I support the bakers right to refuse service. Just like I do not have
to frequent a gun free victim killing zone business. There is an App
for that.

Spit.

On 7/19/2015 3:32 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 12:50:39 -0500, Muggles wrote:

I'm starting to wonder. Ashton appears to be
completely convinced that he has a complete
and correct understanding of Jesus. And that
he has a complete understanding of what
others believe. That's pretty bold.


I think he's just trolling.

In fairness to Ashton, he is not a troll. Been around for a long
time. He is dug in and stands by his opinion. Now, tossing the word
"bigot" around is just plain silly.

I'm not familiar with Ashton, but he is coming across as trolling on
this topic, anyway. It doesn't seem as if he wants a discussion, but it
more interested in judging people who have a different opinion. If he's
not a troll I'd expect more reasonable discussion, I think.


A bigot doesn't like anybody. If they are gay, queer, carpet muncher's
or what. A bigot doesn't like them.

Any public business has a right to refuse service. No shoes, No shirt,
Three heads, No Service. Period.

I support the bakers right to refuse service. Just like I do not have
to frequent a gun free victim killing zone business. There is an App
for that.

Spit.


haha ... splat! eww ... You almost got that dog over there ---

--
Maggie

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 15:57:29 -0500, Muggles wrote:

If he's
not a troll I'd expect more reasonable discussion, I think.

Wait until gun debates start. I'm known to silence liberals. They have
no answers, discussion or reasonable reply's.

Some are like a circus barkers or a Town Crier.

P.S. A troll here is about to report me to DHS and have them visit me,
like I give two squats for what they do. I can spin doctor the DHS
too. Make them forget why they came to see me in the first place. Walk
out scratching their noggins. Make 'em think they had an epiphany

On 7/19/2015 1:50 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 7/19/2015 8:26 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Who do you say Jesus is?


I'm starting to wonder. Ashton appears to be
completely convinced that he has a complete
and correct understanding of Jesus. And that
he has a complete understanding of what
others believe. That's pretty bold.


I think he's just trolling.


Inflamatory, if nothing else.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Friday, July 17, 2015 at 11:39:30 PM UTC-4, Ashton Crusher

That's nice but would he refuse to bake cakes for them? Nothing I
read in the bible suggests Jesus would be the bigot that many
so-called "good Christians" are. Since you were too chicken to answer
the question it would appear you are one of them.

Jesus sought out sinners and would never shun them or anyone. He spoke to
everyone. He excluded no one and yet in his name some seek to exclude
others. There is no type of person that he would not meet or preach to.
Since Jesus came to die for the sins (wrongdoing) of mankind, sin did not
prevent Him from loving people. He loved all sinners, including prostitutes.
Luke 7:36-50.

36 Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the
Pharisee's house, and sat down to eat. 37 And behold, a woman in the city
who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee'
s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil, 38 and stood at His
feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and
wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed
them with the fragrant oil. 39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw
this, he spoke to himself, saying, "This Man, if He were a prophet, would
know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a
sinner."

40 And Jesus answered and said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to
you."

So he said, "Teacher, say it."

41 "There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred
denarii, and the other fifty. 42 And when they had nothing with which to
repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will
love him more?"

43 Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more."

And He said to him, "You have rightly judged." 44 Then He turned to the
woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you
gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and
wiped them with the hair of her head. 45 You gave Me no kiss, but this woman
has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. 46 You did not
anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant
oil. 47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for
she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little."

48 Then He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

49 And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who
is this who even forgives sins?"

50 Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."

(New King James Version).

"trader_4" wrote in message news:a21d1692-

stuff snipped

I said before what my solution is. Get govt out of this altogether.
You should be able to refuse service today to anyone, for any reason.
I can see the need for outlawing discrimination 50 years ago, when
blacks were denied access to most lodging, had separate counters for
food service, had to ride the back of the (public) bus. It was
widespread.
Therefore I can see a valid reason for the govt to step in. Today,
the situation is totally reversed.

I am not sure what kind of enclave you live in, but from what you've written
it sounds like a very large, nice house with a pool in what I suspect to be
a mostly white suburban neighborhood. BTW, if the situation were totally
reversed, white people would be denied food, lodging and the use of the same
facilities. I'll stipulate that things are better, but not fixed.

IMHO, in the real world, the situation is NOT reversed, it's simmering at
perhaps its hottest point in years as evidenced by the Charleston massacre
and the protests concerning the Flag of The Defeated and Surrendered
Anachronistic Slavery-Loving Slightly Atavistic Secessionist South: satire
alert

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/19...a-capitol.html

The police made five arrests, and the South Carolina Department of Public
Safety estimated that the State House crowd, including onlookers, had at one
point swelled to about 2,000 people. They chanted - or at least heard -
volleys of incendiary speech and shouts of "white power!" and "black power!"
Bystanders watched people wave flags celebrating Pan-Africanism, the
Confederacy and the Nazi Party. And they watched as black demonstrators
raised clenched fists, and white demonstrators performed Nazi salutes . . .
"Peace is over with," said William Bader, who said he was a Kentucky
resident and the imperial wizard of the Trinity White Knights of the Ku Klux
Klan. "There is no peace." Mr. Bader, who said he planned to wear his Klan
regalia for a cross burning on Saturday night, added, "What do I want to see
happen? White revolution is the only solution."

"Peace is over with" doesn't sound like it echoes your 'it's all in the
past' sentiment.

So, let businesses do what they want. If you want to deny service
to gays, Latinos, blacks, Jews, whatever, I say it's your right.

Fortunately you're not in charge. I've experienced reverse racism where at
3AM in the only eatery open in a mostly black neighborhood I was served
after every other black person had been served first, many of whom came into
the shop after me. It was a very interesting lesson in being the underdog.
The way demographics are going, in 30 years people like us will very likely
be in the minority. So we should be careful what we wish for.

Expect that most of your other customers would evaluate what you're
doing and most of them would probably be offended and take their
business somewhere else. You could also expect the arrival of
protesters disrupting your business, people calling for boycotts,
lots of negative publicity, etc. In other words, very, very few
businesses are going to do it. And those that do, so what.

The "so what" is that shortly after a club puts out a sign "no white bikers"
or "no wetbacks" you can expect they will be getting bricks or worse thrown
through their windows. It's inimical to the public welfare.

What is far worse, is the "solution". In Oregon a couple owns a
bakery. They have gay customers, have sold them cakes, etc. Along
comes a gay couple that wanted them to help cater their wedding,
actually being at the wedding. They declined for religious reasons.
The govt went after them, hit them with a $130K fine.

Not a fine, I reiterate. Those were damages against the couple that was
turned away. A fine would go to the state. However even though that sum
goes to the gay couple I doubt they will ever see a cent of that money. I
expect the bakers will declare bankruptcy rather than pay.

And if that isn't bad enough, the court put a gag order on them.

It was NOT a gag order. I am sure you're familiar enough with the law to
know such restrictions have been legal for decades (centuries?). It was a
cease and desist order telling the bakers not to further injure the gay
couple and telling them while they could discuss the case (some gag order!)
they could NOT recommend to other businesses that they, too, refuse to serve
gay clients.

They came up
with a list of speech from interviews where they voiced their opinions
that they didn't think being gay was moral, etc. The court actually
*banned* them from saying any similar things in the future.

You'll have to show me in the PDF case file where they did that because I
couldn't find it. They were very clear in the conditions they placed on the
bakers. The BOLI was simple trying to prevent the bakers from inflicting
further duress on the gay couple.

The bakers had published their address which caused the couple to move out
of their house because of the death threats. Death threats they got from
wonderful, religiously devout and potentially murderous Christians. And you
wonder why I don't feel that religious rights should trump the law.

Folks, it's getting really, really scary......

Yes, particularly when people twist events to suit their political and
religious viewpoints and the truth gets lost in the noise.

The Amish and other religious groups solved the problem of not interacting
with people they don't care to by forming their own communities. Taken to
the extreme, you get the Branch Davidians, but in general, a lot of
religious communities exist quite peacefully and untroubled by worrying
about whether baking a cake for a gay couple will turn them gay, too. (-:

To be fair to you, Trader, there is some indication that there are other
forces that have come to bear on the question. As you'll recall, Indiana
recently tried to pass a rather odious Religious Freedom Act to insure that
people who wanted to discriminate for religious reasons in public business
could do so. However, industries based in the state weighed in on the
proposed law and got the legislature to change it:

Mr. Dent told his colleagues in a closed-door meeting on Tuesday that they
were risking the same protests from business leaders and other gay rights
supporters that Gov. Mike Pence of Indiana prompted in March when he signed
legislation allowing businesses to refuse services to same-sex couples. The
bill was quickly amended to outlaw discrimination based on sexual
orientation or gender identity.

--
Bobby G.

"Ashton Crusher" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 08:20:30 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

You need to stick to the facts. This had nothing to do with them
refusing to go to their reception. It was pure bigotry based on
religion. They refused to sell a cake to a lesbian couple. Just as in
the south in the 50's businesses refused to do business with Blacks.
They violated the law. It's that simple.

http://m.snopes.com/2015/07/03/sweet...lissa-damages/

From your own source, the judge said they refused to provide
"wedding cake services". Typically, wedding cake services include
delivering the cake, setting it up at the reception. I took it
to mean it was more than just picking up a cake, so you might be
right on that point. But to me it doesn't matter. And where is your
lib outrage at the illegal, unconstitutional gag order the court
put on the bakers?

He didn't put a 'gag order' on them. He did limit their ability to
tell lies.

The story gets so distorted in both the left and right-wing press that it's
hard to tell what went on without referring to the official documents in the
case. They were barred from recommending to others that they, too, disobey
the law.

They also were not "fined" - that $135,000 was what BOLI decided was the
value for the emotional harm done to the gay couple. The money for a fine
would go to the state. The $135,000 is to be paid to the women so it's not
a fine even though it's widely reported that way.

There are legitimate questions the will doubtless be considered on appeal.
Some observers feel both the damages and the C&D order will be modified on
appeal.

Throughout this whole process I have yet to figure out what BOLI could have
done had the bakers said "It won't happen again, sorry, we'll go private"
and left it at that? Going in to taste and buy a cake and being told that
you are an abomination isn't going to end well and it didn't.

It's still unclear (given how Jesus set a pretty serious counter-example)
how mixing with gays is so unbearable. He mixed with prostitutes but didn't
become one. This "religious reason" makes no sense so I strongly suspect
it's not a "deeply held religious conviction" that makes these people so
ferociously shun gays, etc. It's just good old fashion "ya ain't one of us"
bigotry.

--
Bobby G.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 09:22:11 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 7/18/2015 11:48 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 08:04:00 -0400, Stormin Mormon
Nothing I read in the bible suggests Jesus would be
the bigot

Jesus called the religious people white washed seplucres full of dead
mens bones, and threw the money changers out of the temple because they
had turned the place into a den of thieves. You don't appear to know
anything about Jesus. He looked at people straight up and read their
mail to therm, pointed at their sin and called it evil, and then told
them to turn from their wicked ways and change their lives... You want
to a ask if Jesus would bake gays a cake? That's the most ignorant
question I've ever seen anyone ask..

I tried to answer Ashton's questions, but I do
think you did a little better than I. Very well
done, my friend.


Interesting that you folks think Jesus is a bigot.


Your mind reading really sucks. Your name calling
is extreme. Hmm. Oh, wait, you're a liberal?

You imply you support bigotry so it's hardly name calling to say you
are a bigot.

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 23:17:57 -0500, Muggles wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 20:47:35 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:
Sure, Jesus might tell the gay person that he thought
what they were doing was a sin

Might?

Yup, he might. Or he might wash their feet. You never know.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 09:20:12 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 7/18/2015 11:47 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Actually, the question is so SMART that you are afraid to answer it.
That's how Jesus rolled, we all know that. We all know that Jesus
would never act like those bigoted bakers. Sure, Jesus might tell the
gay person that he thought what they were doing was a sin but he
would never discriminate against them. If you don't understand that
then you don't understand Jesus.


How about some physical action, then?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/21?lang=eng

12 ¶And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that
sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the
moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the
house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

(Matthew chapter 21, King James Version)


What did the bible say about shaving, cutting your hair and eating
shellfish?

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 09:26:53 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 7/19/2015 12:20 AM, Muggles wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 20:54:07 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:
that's a sin." Have you read the bible? That's not
how the Prince of Peace does things. He loves all,
including the sinners. He'd

Who do you say Jesus is?


I'm starting to wonder. Ashton appears to be
completely convinced that he has a complete
and correct understanding of Jesus. And that
he has a complete understanding of what
others believe. That's pretty bold.

Jesus might be speaking thru me. Prove he isn't.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 19:16:32 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

On Friday, July 17, 2015 at 11:39:30 PM UTC-4, Ashton Crusher

That's nice but would he refuse to bake cakes for them? Nothing I
read in the bible suggests Jesus would be the bigot that many
so-called "good Christians" are. Since you were too chicken to answer
the question it would appear you are one of them.

Jesus sought out sinners and would never shun them or anyone. He spoke to
everyone. He excluded no one and yet in his name some seek to exclude
others. There is no type of person that he would not meet or preach to.
Since Jesus came to die for the sins (wrongdoing) of mankind, sin did not
prevent Him from loving people. He loved all sinners, including prostitutes.
Luke 7:36-50.

36 Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the
Pharisee's house, and sat down to eat. 37 And behold, a woman in the city
who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee'
s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil, 38 and stood at His
feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and
wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed
them with the fragrant oil. 39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw
this, he spoke to himself, saying, "This Man, if He were a prophet, would
know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a
sinner."

40 And Jesus answered and said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to
you."

So he said, "Teacher, say it."

41 "There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred
denarii, and the other fifty. 42 And when they had nothing with which to
repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will
love him more?"

43 Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more."

And He said to him, "You have rightly judged." 44 Then He turned to the
woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you
gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and
wiped them with the hair of her head. 45 You gave Me no kiss, but this woman
has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. 46 You did not
anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant
oil. 47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for
she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little."

48 Then He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

49 And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who
is this who even forgives sins?"

50 Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."

(New King James Version).


Yet in spite of that the good Christians on here would refuse service
to gays DUE TO THEIR CHRISTIAN RELIGION!!! They make a mockery of
their Christianity.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 09:24:16 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 7/18/2015 11:56 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 07:56:11 -0400, Stormin Mormon

If they continued to sin, there is a very good
chance Jesus would decline to bake the cake.

According to the Latter-day prophets, homosexual
behavior is a very severe sin.

You don't know Jesus.


That's a very bold accusation, considering
that we have never met in person, and you
don't know me very well. My respect for you
just went down, a LOT.


When I say you don't know him it's a reflection of how you claim he
would take the side of the bakers in refusing to serve gays. Do you
really think if Jesus came to earth and spent a day working in a
bakery he would refuse service to gays because they are "sinners"?? Is
that really how you believe Jesus does his work?? Would he also
refuse service to adulterers, and those who dishonored their parents,
and to those who cut their hair and shaved their beards and those who
eat shellfish, all of which are sins according to the bible. If that
is how you believe Jesus does his work it makes me lose respect for
you.

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 23:24:55 -0500, Muggles wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 21:04:33 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:

That's how Jesus was.

How do you know?

I've read about his works a

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 23:24:55 -0500, Muggles wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 21:04:33 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:

That's how Jesus was.

How do you know?


I've read about his works and his life.

On 7/19/2015 10:09 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 23:17:57 -0500, Muggles wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 20:47:35 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:
Sure, Jesus might tell the gay person that he thought
what they were doing was a sin

Might?

Yup, he might. Or he might wash their feet. You never know.


What were the circumstances where Jesus washed someone elses feet?

--
Maggie

On 7/19/2015 10:15 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 19:16:32 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

On Friday, July 17, 2015 at 11:39:30 PM UTC-4, Ashton Crusher

That's nice but would he refuse to bake cakes for them? Nothing I
read in the bible suggests Jesus would be the bigot that many
so-called "good Christians" are. Since you were too chicken to answer
the question it would appear you are one of them.

Jesus sought out sinners and would never shun them or anyone. He spoke to
everyone. He excluded no one and yet in his name some seek to exclude
others. There is no type of person that he would not meet or preach to.
Since Jesus came to die for the sins (wrongdoing) of mankind, sin did not
prevent Him from loving people. He loved all sinners, including prostitutes.
Luke 7:36-50.

36 Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the
Pharisee's house, and sat down to eat. 37 And behold, a woman in the city
who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee'
s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil, 38 and stood at His
feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and
wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed
them with the fragrant oil. 39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw
this, he spoke to himself, saying, "This Man, if He were a prophet, would
know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a
sinner."

40 And Jesus answered and said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to
you."

So he said, "Teacher, say it."

41 "There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred
denarii, and the other fifty. 42 And when they had nothing with which to
repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will
love him more?"

43 Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more."

And He said to him, "You have rightly judged." 44 Then He turned to the
woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you
gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and
wiped them with the hair of her head. 45 You gave Me no kiss, but this woman
has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. 46 You did not
anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant
oil. 47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for
she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little."

48 Then He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

49 And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who
is this who even forgives sins?"

50 Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."

(New King James Version).


Yet in spite of that the good Christians on here would refuse service
to gays DUE TO THEIR CHRISTIAN RELIGION!!! They make a mockery of
their Christianity.


I refused to post pagan content to a website because of my own belief
system. Someone else posted the content.

I could not in good conscious do it, but I made a way for someone else
to complete the task who had no issue with it.

IOW, I was freely practicing my belief system, and at the same time the
person who wanted pagan content posted to the webpage got their content
posted. We both practiced our "freedom of religion".

Likewise, christian bakers should be allowed to do the same.

--
Maggie

On 7/19/2015 10:23 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 23:24:55 -0500, Muggles wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 21:04:33 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:

That's how Jesus was.

How do you know?


I've read about his works and his life.


So, have I. So, since we've both read about his works and life, why do
you think you and I would come to different conclusions?

--
Maggie

On 7/19/2015 4:15 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 15:57:29 -0500, Muggles wrote:

If he's
not a troll I'd expect more reasonable discussion, I think.

Wait until gun debates start. I'm known to silence liberals. They have
no answers, discussion or reasonable reply's.

Some are like a circus barkers or a Town Crier.

P.S. A troll here is about to report me to DHS and have them visit me,
like I give two squats for what they do. I can spin doctor the DHS
too. Make them forget why they came to see me in the first place. Walk
out scratching their noggins. Make 'em think they had an epiphany


I don't know much about guns except I'm afraid of them. At one point I
asked a friend who was a police officer to teach me how to use them, but
she ended up moving out of state to live closer to her children. I'd
still like to learn how to use them better. In the past I've had
chances to shoot the occasional gun or rifle and strangely enough I can
at least hit the target after a couple of tries, but that's the extent
of my gun knowledge.

--
Maggie

On 7/19/2015 6:30 PM, Robert Green wrote:

It's still unclear (given how Jesus set a pretty serious counter-example)
how mixing with gays is so unbearable. He mixed with prostitutes but didn't
become one. This "religious reason" makes no sense so I strongly suspect
it's not a "deeply held religious conviction" that makes these people so
ferociously shun gays, etc. It's just good old fashion "ya ain't one of us"
bigotry.


It's true that "bad company corrupts good morals", so many people don't
want to take that risk. I've been around all sorts of people, but I
always have to be alone and have my quiet time away from everyone else
so I can find my balance again.

Jesus was more than just a regular person, and most of us aren't even
close to being like Jesus. That's why it's a good thing that it says
we're says by grace, not of works, lest any man should boast.

--
Maggie

On 7/19/2015 10:08 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 09:22:11 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 7/18/2015 11:48 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 08:04:00 -0400, Stormin Mormon
Nothing I read in the bible suggests Jesus would be
the bigot

Jesus called the religious people white washed seplucres full of dead
mens bones, and threw the money changers out of the temple because they
had turned the place into a den of thieves. You don't appear to know
anything about Jesus. He looked at people straight up and read their
mail to therm, pointed at their sin and called it evil, and then told
them to turn from their wicked ways and change their lives... You want
to a ask if Jesus would bake gays a cake? That's the most ignorant
question I've ever seen anyone ask..

I tried to answer Ashton's questions, but I do
think you did a little better than I. Very well
done, my friend.


Interesting that you folks think Jesus is a bigot.


Your mind reading really sucks. Your name calling
is extreme. Hmm. Oh, wait, you're a liberal?

You imply you support bigotry so it's hardly name calling to say you
are a bigot.


.... But it is name-calling to call someone a bigot just because you
don't agree with their point of view.

The same principle could be turned against you, and you'd equally be a
bigot. I don't think you are, though. We just don't agree for whatever
reasons.

--
Maggie