Troubleshooting advice requested, because the LED blinking
constantly supposedly indicates that the heater is wired
in reverse (which really isn't very likely, so I must be
misinterpreting something obvious).

Heater worked last year (AFAIK).

It just started getting cold in California, so, the heater power
was turned on, and ... and ... and ... uh ... um ... no heat.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7508/1...4311f464_k.jpg

Thermostat batteries are good:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8595/1...3c98abbd_k.jpg

Heater power is on and the blower blows but the red led blinks
at a steady pace forever.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7513/1...4a54e186_c.jpg

Checked that the switches inside were all on:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7510/1...c399d625_b.jpg

Checked that the fuse on the circuit board was good:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8672/1...4a6d21f8_c.jpg

The sticker says constant flashes indicates reverse wiring:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7505/1...4f42e6c5_c.jpg

But, there's no way the wiring was changed between last year & now.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7540/1...2d8775fe_c.jpg

Here's what it looks like inside:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7561/1...7f78bee3_b.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8561/1...7cc1f787_b.jpg

I don't know where the model number is, so, I don't have a manual
yet.

Debugging suggestions are requested, and very helpful. Thanks!

On 12/19/2014 6:56 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Troubleshooting advice requested, because the LED blinking
constantly supposedly indicates that the heater is wired
in reverse (which really isn't very likely, so I must be
misinterpreting something obvious).

Heater worked last year (AFAIK).

It just started getting cold in California, so, the heater power
was turned on, and ... and ... and ... uh ... um ... no heat.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7508/1...4311f464_k.jpg

Thermostat batteries are good:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8595/1...3c98abbd_k.jpg

Heater power is on and the blower blows but the red led blinks
at a steady pace forever.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7513/1...4a54e186_c.jpg

Checked that the switches inside were all on:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7510/1...c399d625_b.jpg

Checked that the fuse on the circuit board was good:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8672/1...4a6d21f8_c.jpg

The sticker says constant flashes indicates reverse wiring:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7505/1...4f42e6c5_c.jpg

But, there's no way the wiring was changed between last year & now.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7540/1...2d8775fe_c.jpg

Here's what it looks like inside:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7561/1...7f78bee3_b.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8561/1...7cc1f787_b.jpg

I don't know where the model number is, so, I don't have a manual
yet.

Debugging suggestions are requested, and very helpful. Thanks!


Model number inside the case, in your machine
probably on the inner ceiling. As to reverse
polarity, you'd have to use a VOM to confirm
the black is hot, white is neutral.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Friday, December 19, 2014 6:57:23 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
Troubleshooting advice requested, because the LED blinking
constantly supposedly indicates that the heater is wired
in reverse (which really isn't very likely, so I must be
misinterpreting something obvious).

Heater worked last year (AFAIK).

It just started getting cold in California, so, the heater power
was turned on, and ... and ... and ... uh ... um ... no heat.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7508/1...4311f464_k.jpg

Thermostat batteries are good:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8595/1...3c98abbd_k.jpg

Heater power is on and the blower blows but the red led blinks
at a steady pace forever.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7513/1...4a54e186_c.jpg

Checked that the switches inside were all on:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7510/1...c399d625_b.jpg

Checked that the fuse on the circuit board was good:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8672/1...4a6d21f8_c.jpg

The sticker says constant flashes indicates reverse wiring:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7505/1...4f42e6c5_c.jpg

But, there's no way the wiring was changed between last year & now.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7540/1...2d8775fe_c.jpg

Here's what it looks like inside:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7561/1...7f78bee3_b.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8561/1...7cc1f787_b.jpg

I don't know where the model number is, so, I don't have a manual
yet.

Debugging suggestions are requested, and very helpful. Thanks!

According to that secret decoder table, it tells you what's wrong
by blinking short blinks, followed by long blinks. Those continue
indefinitely, in a pattern. So, are you saying it's not doing that,
but instead it's giving you no pattern, just rapid flashes, which
the table says is reversed polarity?

If so, best guess would be that the oontroller board is kaput. Did you
have that flakey generator running it?

trader_4 wrote, on Fri, 19 Dec 2014 16:14:54 -0800:

According to that secret decoder table, it tells you what's wrong
by blinking short blinks, followed by long blinks. Those continue
indefinitely, in a pattern. So, are you saying it's not doing that,
but instead it's giving you no pattern, just rapid flashes, which
the table says is reversed polarity?

Here is exactly what the blinking is doing with the cover off
and me pressing on the door switch manually:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/15438398234/

This is the secret decoder ring in a full-size JPEG file:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7484/1...5d624fe0_c.jpg

What do you make of those blinks with the cover off the unit?

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 19 Dec 2014 19:13:20 -0500:

Model number inside the case, in your machine
probably on the inner ceiling. As to reverse
polarity, you'd have to use a VOM to confirm
the black is hot, white is neutral.

Thanks for that advice.

I can check the polarity, but, really, there's no way
it changed.

So, I must be interpreting the flashes incorrectly.

Here is the full-size secret decoder ring:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7484/1...5d624fe0_c.jpg

Given that, what do folks make of these flashes in
this 30-second video while the cover was still on the unit?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/16060716735/

On 12/19/2014 10:21 PM, Danny D. wrote:

Here is exactly what the blinking is doing with the cover off
and me pressing on the door switch manually:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/15438398234/

This is the secret decoder ring in a full-size JPEG file:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7484/1...5d624fe0_c.jpg

What do you make of those blinks with the cover off the unit?

I could not tell if it was continuous, or blinking 11.

In any case, and open ground can some times
give a fault code. I'd get out the VOM, and
check for polarity and also check for open
ground.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 06:01:41 -0500:

I could not tell if it was continuous, or blinking 11.

If it's 11, then that corresponds to the following (which I don't
understand).
11: NO PREVIOUS CODE - Stored status codes are erased when power
(115V or 24V) to control is interrupted or 48 hours after each
fault is cleared

What does that mean?

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 06:01:41 -0500:

I could not tell if it was continuous, or blinking 11.

If it's continuous, that corresponds to:
RAPID FLASHING - Line voltage (115V) polarity reversed.
If twinned, refer to twinning kit instructions.

What does "twinned" mean?

On Saturday, December 20, 2014 6:01:47 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 12/19/2014 10:21 PM, Danny D. wrote:

Here is exactly what the blinking is doing with the cover off
and me pressing on the door switch manually:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/15438398234/

This is the secret decoder ring in a full-size JPEG file:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7484/1...5d624fe0_c.jpg

What do you make of those blinks with the cover off the unit?

I could not tell if it was continuous, or blinking 11.

In any case, and open ground can some times
give a fault code. I'd get out the VOM, and
check for polarity and also check for open
ground.


The video wouldn't play in Internet Explorer, just sound. In Chrome
it played for me and clearly it shows 1 long flash, 5 short flashes,
followed by continuous flashes. The other video, with the door on,
just shows it flashing continously, no patterm.

Two problems. First the table says the codes are given by the number
of long flashes and short flashes, which would lead you to believe
the long flashes should come first, not the other way around.

Second, no matter, there is no table entry for 1-5 or 5-1.

The continous flashing with the cover on, in the other video, I would
agree looks like line polarity reversed. Which for a previously installed
furnace would appear to be virtually impossible. Another possibility
would be that the control board was replaced previously with a different
type that has different codes.

So, I agree, I'd check with a VOM to make sure AC is in order. After
that, IDK. We don't know the sequence of what comes before those videos.
If the furnace winds up with that constant blinking in the first video
right after power has been removed, then turned back on, I'd say it's
most likely the control board. If the light is just on steady, which I
think is normal condition, and then when it goes to *fire*, he gets the
1 -5 sequence, then I'd say it's more likely something else, ie that it's
detecting something wrong, like pressure, when purging. But why it's not
in the list, the blinks seem backward, I guess that's just par for the
course with the stuff at D's house.

trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 05:19:01 -0800:

The video wouldn't play in Internet Explorer, just sound. In Chrome
it played for me and clearly it shows 1 long flash, 5 short flashes,
followed by continuous flashes. The other video, with the door on,
just shows it flashing continously, no patterm.

Thanks for taking a look at it, because I saw exactly the same thing.

The video with the door on was taken after it was running for ten or
fifteen minutes, but with no heat, so I crawled into the crawlspace
where the heater was and taped the flashing.

There was nothing whatsoever done with the line voltage of this
furnace, at least not on purpose. No electricians came to the house.
And nothing was done on the furnace whatsoever.

So, for the line voltage to reverse, that would be odd.

Two problems. First the table says the codes are given by the number
of long flashes and short flashes, which would lead you to believe
the long flashes should come first, not the other way around.

I can't tell if the continuous flashes are long or short.

Second, no matter, there is no table entry for 1-5 or 5-1.

I did see, as you saw, that the first few seconds of flashes
were not the same as the rest of the flashes. I didn't know what
to make of it, but you discerned a 1-5, which makes your timing
better than mine.

Another possibility would be that the control board was replaced
previously with a different type that has different codes.

Ah. I understand what you're saying. If the control board doesn't
match the cover secret decoder ring, then that might explain a lot.

We don't know the sequence of what comes before those videos.

I'll snap a new "reboot" video today, with the power turned off to
the furnace, for a few hours, and then turned back on and started
right up so we get the "initial" sequence of flashes.

On Saturday, December 20, 2014 8:27:16 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 05:19:01 -0800:

The video wouldn't play in Internet Explorer, just sound. In Chrome
it played for me and clearly it shows 1 long flash, 5 short flashes,
followed by continuous flashes. The other video, with the door on,
just shows it flashing continously, no patterm.

Thanks for taking a look at it, because I saw exactly the same thing.

The video with the door on was taken after it was running for ten or
fifteen minutes, but with no heat, so I crawled into the crawlspace
where the heater was and taped the flashing.

There was nothing whatsoever done with the line voltage of this
furnace, at least not on purpose. No electricians came to the house.
And nothing was done on the furnace whatsoever.

So, for the line voltage to reverse, that would be odd.

Two problems. First the table says the codes are given by the number
of long flashes and short flashes, which would lead you to believe
the long flashes should come first, not the other way around.

I can't tell if the continuous flashes are long or short.

Second, no matter, there is no table entry for 1-5 or 5-1.

I did see, as you saw, that the first few seconds of flashes
were not the same as the rest of the flashes. I didn't know what
to make of it, but you discerned a 1-5, which makes your timing
better than mine.

Another possibility would be that the control board was replaced
previously with a different type that has different codes.

Ah. I understand what you're saying. If the control board doesn't
match the cover secret decoder ring, then that might explain a lot.

We don't know the sequence of what comes before those videos.

I'll snap a new "reboot" video today, with the power turned off to
the furnace, for a few hours, and then turned back on and started
right up so we get the "initial" sequence of flashes.

It doesn't have to be turned off for a few hours, just turned off and
back on. Record what it does when power comes back on without a call for
heat. If it shows normal, stays that way for a few mins, then turn
up the thermostat and see what happens.

Another thing, you're not operating the furnace normally. You have the
cover off, furnace powered up and you're depressing the door safety switch
to initite it. For all we know that 1 -5 sequence could mean "detected
door switch open". Power it up with the door switch closed, either with
the door on, tape over it, etc.

"Danny D." wrote in news:m73ter$o70$1@dont-
email.me:

Second, no matter, there is no table entry for 1-5 or 5-1.


The way I see it is that you may need a new controler.

On 12/20/2014 7:51 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 06:01:41 -0500:

I could not tell if it was continuous, or blinking 11.

If it's 11, then that corresponds to the following (which I don't
understand).
11: NO PREVIOUS CODE - Stored status codes are erased when power
(115V or 24V) to control is interrupted or 48 hours after each
fault is cleared

What does that mean?

Means that either someone turned off the power
(so the unit lost its memory kind of like a VCR
blinking 12:00) or that the fault was so long
ago, that the unit lost its memory.

In any case, please try shutting off the power
for 30 seconds or so, and turn it back on. Some
times that handles nussiance trips.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Zak W wrote:
"Danny D." wrote in news:m73ter$o70$1@dont-
email.me:

Second, no matter, there is no table entry for 1-5 or 5-1.


The way I see it is that you may need a new controler.

He might try blowing the control board off with compressed air . Dust , if
damp , can short circuit those miniscule signals ... as I found out after
buying a new board for my Goodman furnace . Now I have a spare .

--
Snag

Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Fri, 19 Dec 2014 16:14:54 -0800:

According to that secret decoder table, it tells you what's wrong
by blinking short blinks, followed by long blinks. Those continue
indefinitely, in a pattern. So, are you saying it's not doing that,
but instead it's giving you no pattern, just rapid flashes, which
the table says is reversed polarity?

Here is exactly what the blinking is doing with the cover off
and me pressing on the door switch manually:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/15438398234/

This is the secret decoder ring in a full-size JPEG file:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7484/1...5d624fe0_c.jpg

What do you make of those blinks with the cover off the unit?

Hi,
I believe it is code 33. I am pretty sure.

Tony Hwang wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 19:41:51 -0700:

I believe it is code 33. I am pretty sure.

Thanks for looking as it's really hard to tell what the
blinking indicates.

If it's 33, then that corresponds to:

LIMIT OR FLAME ROLL-OUT SWITCH IS OPEN-
If open longer than three minutes, code changes to #13.
Check for:
- Defective blower motor or start capacitor
- Loose blower wheel
- Inadequate combustion air supply flame roll-out switch or fuse link
- Open flame roll-out switch, or fuse link. Manual reset or replace.
- Dirty filter or restricted duct system
- Defective switch or connections

I'm not sure I understand all of those, but some are easy,
e.g., I'll look for whereever the filter is (which has never
been cleaned to my knowledge).

Some of these controllers sense the small electrical conductivity of a fire as a flame sensor. Since the fire is grounded, the flame sense ciccuot senses to earth ground. To do that, the conntroller needs a good earth ground and it gets that through the ac connection. All 3 wires of the ac connection have to be correct. The black has to be hot. The white neutral and the green or bare ground. Check that these 3 connections are correct, including the ground connection. Also chech that these is no sign of water on the electronics. Also chcck the flame sensorrobe wire is not shorted or has water.

Mark

makolber wrote, on Sun, 21 Dec 2014 04:53:55 -0800:

Some of these controllers sense the small electrical
conductivity of a fire as a flame sensor. Since the
fire is grounded, the flame sense ciccuot senses to
earth ground. To do that, the conntroller needs a
good earth ground and it gets that through the ac
connection. All 3 wires of the ac connection have
to be correct. The black has to be hot. The white
neutral and the green or bare ground. Check that
these 3 connections are correct, including the
ground connection. Also chech that these is no
sign of water on the electronics. Also chcck
the flame sensorrobe wire is not shorted or has water.

The area is in a crawlspace that is *above* the house, so,
it's pretty dry. At least, I don't see any moisture anywhere,
even though it has been raining (thank God) outside.

On 12/21/2014 2:51 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 19:41:51 -0700:

I believe it is code 33. I am pretty sure.

Thanks for looking as it's really hard to tell what the
blinking indicates.

If it's 33, then that corresponds to:

LIMIT OR FLAME ROLL-OUT SWITCH IS OPEN-
If open longer than three minutes, code changes to #13.
Check for:
- Defective blower motor or start capacitor
- Loose blower wheel
- Inadequate combustion air supply flame roll-out switch or fuse link
- Open flame roll-out switch, or fuse link. Manual reset or replace.
- Dirty filter or restricted duct system
- Defective switch or connections

I'm not sure I understand all of those, but some are easy,
e.g., I'll look for whereever the filter is (which has never
been cleaned to my knowledge).


If this is the trouble code, you most likely have
not enough air flow through the furnace, and the
furnace is over heating. You might also have a
clogged flue.

First step is to seek for the air filter, and replace
it. Also see if the blower wheel spins while the furnace
is on, and calling for heat.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:39:15 -0500:

First step is to seek for the air filter, and replace
it.

I opened up all the vents, and removed all the filters.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7576/1...eb92f0c2_b.jpg

Also see if the blower wheel spins while the furnace
is on, and calling for heat.

Is this the "blower wheel"?
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7471/1...173421dd_b.jpg

It spins freely manually (but never turns when the blower is
running).

I also replaced the batteries, in the controller, even though
they had tested at 1.4VDC open circuit (the new ones are
1.6 volts open circuit).
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7534/1...12b21a95_b.jpg

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 09:45:08 -0500:

In any case, please try shutting off the power
for 30 seconds or so, and turn it back on. Some
times that handles nussiance trips.

I turned the power off and then after a few minutes, back on.
Nothing changed.

I tried to check voltages, but I don't know what to test:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7550/1...abb172d6_b.jpg

The model is Bryant 373LAV024070, input 69,000BTU, output 66,000 BTU:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7568/1...8fa24051_b.jpg

trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 05:37:54 -0800:

It doesn't have to be turned off for a few hours, just turned off and
back on. Record what it does when power comes back on without a call for
heat. If it shows normal, stays that way for a few mins, then turn
up the thermostat and see what happens.

I turned off the power.
Put the covers back on.
Turned the power back on.
Waited about 20 minutes.
Turned it off for a few minutes.
Turned it back on.
Set the heat to HOLD at 80 degrees.
The blinking lights don't seem to have changed.

Here is the latest blinking light - which is odd as it stumbles
at 24 seconds, but I don't know what to make of that anomaly.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/15889437369/

Tony Hwang wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 19:41:51 -0700:

I believe it is code 33. I am pretty sure.

I found where to get manuals but I can't find the exact model:
http://www.bryant.com/apps/finddocs/form.jsp?b=b

The model is a Bryant 373LAV024070 (AGJA).
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7568/1...8fa24051_b.jpg

The closest Bryant PDF manual I can find is:
373LAV 376CAV Downflow/Horizontal and 383KAV 395CAV Upflow Gas Furnace
http://dms.hvacpartners.com//docs/10...0B/OM04-35.pdf

383KAV Upflow Gas Furnace 373LAV Downflow Horizontal Gas Furnace
http://dms.hvacpartners.com//docs/10...83_373-005.pdf

I'll call Bryant on Monday to figure out why I can't find the
exact model in the lists of documents:
800-428-4326 from 5:00am-2:00pm (Pacific) weekdays.

Instead of making it fire, what does it do/flash if you just power it up with no call for heat?

You have the model. The last numbers are the specific size and output. 24 may be width, 70k btus?

trader_4 wrote, on Sun, 21 Dec 2014 22:40:38 -0800:

Instead of making it fire, what does it do/flash if you just power it up
with no call for heat?

It appears to do the same thing, but I need to test further.

On Monday, December 22, 2014 6:32:55 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Sun, 21 Dec 2014 22:40:38 -0800:

Instead of making it fire, what does it do/flash if you just power it up
with no call for heat?

It appears to do the same thing, but I need to test further.

Then it's nothing to do with it failing to ignite, overheating, gas
supply, etc. It;'s detecting something wrong with just the application
of power, without it even having a call for heat, trying to fire, etc.

Could be some sensor input is lacking, but then you'd think it would be
flashing a code that was in the table. Given what it's doing, my first
suspicion would be that it's a bad control board. Did you put a meter on
it when power is first applied, verified that it has 120V, ground is OK,
etc?

On 12/21/2014 7:41 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:39:15 -0500:

First step is to seek for the air filter, and replace
it.

I opened up all the vents, and removed all the filters.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7576/1...eb92f0c2_b.jpg

CY: Yow, that's cruddy. And it looks like the air
flow is blocked. Should be open. Is it possible some
one walled off the air vent?

Also see if the blower wheel spins while the furnace
is on, and calling for heat.

Is this the "blower wheel"?
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7471/1...173421dd_b.jpg

CY: That indicated item is the inducer fan. I meant the
blower which should be about a foot diameter, and
about a foot long. Hope this picture arrives:
http://www.meci.com/ebay1/7350905-0510.jpg
If the air handler blower isn't running, the furnace
will over heat.


It spins freely manually (but never turns when the blower is
running).


CY: Spins freely is good. The black six inch diameter
counter weight should run when the furnace is calling
for heat. It moves air through the combustion chamber.
The six inch blower has to spin up to speed before the
gas valve opens.

I also replaced the batteries, in the controller, even though
they had tested at 1.4VDC open circuit (the new ones are
1.6 volts open circuit).
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7534/1...12b21a95_b.jpg

CY: New batteries is a good idea.


-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/21/2014 7:45 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 20 Dec 2014 09:45:08 -0500:

In any case, please try shutting off the power
for 30 seconds or so, and turn it back on. Some
times that handles nussiance trips.

I turned the power off and then after a few minutes, back on.
Nothing changed.

I tried to check voltages, but I don't know what to test:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7550/1...abb172d6_b.jpg

The model is Bryant 373LAV024070, input 69,000BTU, output 66,000 BTU:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7568/1...8fa24051_b.jpg

If you're safe with a VOM, here's the technique:
Where the BX cable comes in on top (right over
the inducer fan), it ties into the furnace inside
the small box inside the case of the furnace. You
can get into the small box, and check for polarity
and if the ground is connected.

I hesitate to suggest people open up safety boxes
and work with live power, some folks can't do that
safely. Prefer not to go into a lot of detail on
an open forum.

Open ground can cause problems, also.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 07:50:33 -0500:

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7576/1...eb92f0c2_b.jpg

CY: Yow, that's cruddy. And it looks like the air flow is blocked.
Should be open. Is it possible some one walled off the air vent?

I stuck my hands in there, and the opening is above.
Plus, it used to work, and nobody has touched it since.

It *was* embarrassing when I saw that cruddy filter.

I almost didn't want to post a picture before I cleaned it.

According to the manual, there is supposedly a "v-shaped" set
of filters at the blower itself, but I haven't been able to
find them yet.

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 07:50:33 -0500:

CY: That indicated item is the inducer fan. I meant the blower which
should be about a foot diameter, and about a foot long. Hope this
picture arrives:
http://www.meci.com/ebay1/7350905-0510.jpg
If the air handler blower isn't running, the furnace will over heat.

I found that blower you show after looking at the manual:
http://dms.hvacpartners.com//docs/10...0B/OM04-35.pdf

Mine is apparently a "downflow" horizontal model (373LAV), whatever
"downflow" means (as opposed to "upflow" types).

I guess that this means that the air flows "down", which, in the
case of my furnace, is sidewise, I presume to the right (but I'm
just guessing since the direction of airflow isn't described in
the manual).

I called Bryant (at 800-428-4326x3), who confirmed the furnace
is a series G, which was built within the last 15 years, and
actually, based on the serial number, was built in 1999.

They will be sending me more detailed manuals, which I will
let you know when I get them.

On 12/22/2014 9:20 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 07:50:33 -0500:

CY: That indicated item is the inducer fan. I meant the blower which
should be about a foot diameter, and about a foot long. Hope this
picture arrives:
http://www.meci.com/ebay1/7350905-0510.jpg
If the air handler blower isn't running, the furnace will over heat.

I found that blower you show after looking at the manual:
http://dms.hvacpartners.com//docs/10...0B/OM04-35.pdf

Mine is apparently a "downflow" horizontal model (373LAV), whatever
"downflow" means (as opposed to "upflow" types).

I guess that this means that the air flows "down", which, in the
case of my furnace, is sidewise, I presume to the right (but I'm
just guessing since the direction of airflow isn't described in
the manual).

I called Bryant (at 800-428-4326x3), who confirmed the furnace
is a series G, which was built within the last 15 years, and
actually, based on the serial number, was built in 1999.

They will be sending me more detailed manuals, which I will
let you know when I get them.


Some applications like mobile homes, the air
flows from top to bottom (downflow). Many houses
have furnace in the cellar, and are up flow,
meaning the conditioned air blows out the top.
In the horizontal, doesn't make much difference.

Anyhow, good luck and skill. I hesitate to do
much electrical coaching on an open list like
this.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

trader_4 wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 03:57:10 -0800:

Could be some sensor input is lacking, but then you'd think it would be
flashing a code that was in the table. Given what it's doing, my first
suspicion would be that it's a bad control board. Did you put a meter
on it when power is first applied, verified that it has 120V, ground is
OK, etc?

I agree with you that the first thing I need to test is power and
control inputs.

The sad thing is that I don't have a clue how to test that, as only
once before did I ever troubleshoot a furnace. I don't even remember
if it's AC or DC control inputs. Nor which color wires do what
(although I do remember that it's a standard, so, I can look that up).

I just received from Bryant two more PDF manuals, in addition to the
sparse 12-page 373 LAV Series G "User's Information Manual" that
I had already found, namely:
a. Installation Start-up, and Operating Instructions (24 pages)
b. Service and Maintenance Procedures (16 pages)

I can convert the PDF to JPEG and then post the JPG so you can read
them, but is there a way to just post the PDF for you to view them
to help interpret them?

On 12/22/2014 9:30 AM, Danny D. wrote:
The sad thing is that I don't have a clue how to test that, as only
once before did I ever troubleshoot a furnace. I don't even remember
if it's AC or DC control inputs. Nor which color wires do what
(although I do remember that it's a standard, so, I can look that up).


Do you have some friends to call? Someone out
there has to know how to use a VOM.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Monday, December 22, 2014 9:30:56 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 03:57:10 -0800:

Could be some sensor input is lacking, but then you'd think it would be
flashing a code that was in the table. Given what it's doing, my first
suspicion would be that it's a bad control board. Did you put a meter
on it when power is first applied, verified that it has 120V, ground is
OK, etc?

I agree with you that the first thing I need to test is power and
control inputs.

The sad thing is that I don't have a clue how to test that, as only
once before did I ever troubleshoot a furnace. I don't even remember
if it's AC or DC control inputs. Nor which color wires do what
(although I do remember that it's a standard, so, I can look that up).

I just received from Bryant two more PDF manuals, in addition to the
sparse 12-page 373 LAV Series G "User's Information Manual" that
I had already found, namely:
a. Installation Start-up, and Operating Instructions (24 pages)
b. Service and Maintenance Procedures (16 pages)

I can convert the PDF to JPEG and then post the JPG so you can read
them, but is there a way to just post the PDF for you to view them
to help interpret them?

The thing is constantly flashing, which according to the table, is
polarity reversed. That's virtually impossible, but there could be
something wrong with the incoming AC. To test it with a VOM:

turn off power, usually via turning off the red safety toggle switch
that's mounted near the furnace.

get access to the incoming AC, remove wire nuts from hot and neutral,
but leave wires twisted together

make sure wires are in the air, not touching anything

then turn power switch back on

with VOM check for
120V from hot (black) to neutral (white).
120V from hot to ground (that tells you it's not reversed polarity and
that the ground is likely OK.
0V from neutral to ground

Then turn off power and put it back together.

You could also do it easier without removing wire nuts if you
can find hot/neutral identified on the control board. You could just
probe it there.

If you're unsure about any of that, or basic electric safety,
I agree with Stormin. Either call a friend in who is, or just call for service.

Besides, I'd bet 99% that nothing is wrong with the power.

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 07:54:59 -0500:

If you're safe with a VOM, here's the technique:

I'm perfectly fine with 120/220V and can easily work with my
Fluke 75 on the furnace. I just need to know what to check,
bearing in mind that it's not at first obvious where the power
comes in yet.

You can get into the small box, and check for polarity and
if the ground is connected.

I can't imagine that the power polarity has reversed, on its own,
but, as you note, I should check it (since the flashing is hard
to understand and one interpretation of the flashes might be that
the power polarity is reversed).

Of course, that only matters for DC, right?
So I'd need to know *where* the DC is coming from, since the line
voltage is AC (yes, I know a neutral isn't the same as a hot, nor
even the same as a ground, but, in terms of polarity, switching
a neutral with a hot shouldn't matter for AC motors or step-down
transformers (which I presume exist near the circuit board).

I hesitate to suggest people open up safety boxes and work
with live power, some folks can't do that safely. Prefer not
to go into a lot of detail on an open forum.

I have no problem whatsoever working around power.

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 09:28:15 -0500:

Some applications like mobile homes, the air flows from
top to bottom (downflow).

Based on the additional manuals supplied by Bryant today,
I can confirm the air flow comes from the blower at the left
(i.e., the top) and out the right (i.e., the bottom).
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7463/1...a75d2197_b.jpg

On 12/22/2014 10:36 AM, Danny D. wrote:

I hesitate to suggest people open up safety boxes and work
with live power, some folks can't do that safely. Prefer not
to go into a lot of detail on an open forum.

I have no problem whatsoever working around power.


I check my hotmail adress every few days,
more often if I know an email is coming
from a friend.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 09:38:59 -0500:

Do you have some friends to call? Someone out there has
to know how to use a VOM.

Heh heh ...

I know how to use a DMM as well as anyone here knows how to
use one. I have had Simpson (analog) ammeters and voltmeters
since I was a young teen, when I was making my own resistance
testing equipment long before consumer DMMs were common.

My Fluke 75 is a good meter, which I've had for something
like 30 years. So, *using* a meter isn't at all a problem.

The problem is knowing what measurements to take.

To that end, this control board summary is a start:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7511/1...a7b9a83c_h.jpg

As is this wiring control schematic:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8616/1...d2721b93_h.jpg

And, of course, as is the overall furnace circuit schematic:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7560/1...e91c4626_b.jpg

All of which I'm new to, but, which I will print and pore over
to see what basic control and power inputs to test with my
trusty DMM.

trader_4 wrote, on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 06:51:01 -0800:

Besides, I'd bet 99% that nothing is wrong with the power.

I'll check that the white (neutral) has no voltage difference
with green or bare (ground), and that the black (hot) has
line voltage (120VAC) to both the neutral and ground, but, like
you, I am 99.9% sure that can't possibly be the problem.

The problem is "probably" described in this flow chart though...
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7506/1...6bb628a5_c.jpg