trader_4 wrote, on Thu, 25 Dec 2014 03:02:22 -0800:

You didn't get the tank filled with non-conductive propane, instead
of the conductive kind, did you?



MERRY CHRISTMAS!

I can't wait until the grandkids arrive to open their presents!
They'll just have to be a bit bundled up, when they do!

Your suggestion on the non-conductive propane brought a smile to
my face!

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Thu, 25 Dec 2014 08:17:29 -0500:

It's like ethanol gas, the old stuff is so
hard to find now days. Causes more problems.

MERRY CHRISTMAS Chris!

That flame sensor circuit mechanism is the strangest thing to
come out of this quest!

http://www.upperplumbers.co.uk/image...on-circuit.jpg

I found this circuit diagram of the flame sensing circuit of a
European Patent number 82106572.9
https://data.epo.org/publication-ser...&docId=7380136
https://data.epo.org/publication-ser.../document.html

It's too deep for me though, to figure out yet (plus I have no way of
knowing if mine uses a similar circuit).
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/at...lame-rect..jpg

Danny D. wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote, on Thu, 25 Dec 2014 07:50:31 -0700:

Did you happen to check DC voltage(5V) the logic needs?

I don't know where to look for that 5VDC yet.

there was a TSB out on those board.

I don't know where to find a TSB.

All I know about the board is that it has this number on it:
1012-940-J HK42FZ009

Typical Carrier part number.
There is only one high Wattage resistor, about middle center of the
board. I have old spare board kicking around here at home or out at
Cabin. I'll dig it out and take a look. If it is not here, I am going
out to cabin tomorrow.
Tony


https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7517/1...15b36c3e_b.jpg

And one supplier told me the replacement is this:

325878-751 control board conversion kit.

Sensor rod shoild be positioned right in the flame.

The LH680014 flame sensor rod only goes in one way and it's
in the flame right in the middle, as can be seen on the bottom
burner of this picture, with the burner removed:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7510/1...f06fc142_c.jpg

On 12/25/2014 10:50 AM, Danny D. wrote:

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

I can't wait until the grandkids arrive to open their presents!
They'll just have to be a bit bundled up, when they do!

Your suggestion on the non-conductive propane brought a smile to
my face!


Sorry to hear about the heater still not working.
That's no fun to be cold, indoors. I've done that
enough times.

You'd already know that a calorie (food measure) is
actually a measure of heat. So, please feed the kids
lots of high calorie foods to help keep them warm.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/25/2014 10:59 AM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Thu, 25 Dec 2014 08:17:29 -0500:

It's like ethanol gas, the old stuff is so
hard to find now days. Causes more problems.

MERRY CHRISTMAS Chris!

That flame sensor circuit mechanism is the strangest thing to
come out of this quest!

http://www.upperplumbers.co.uk/image...on-circuit.jpg

I found this circuit diagram of the flame sensing circuit of a
European Patent number 82106572.9
https://data.epo.org/publication-ser...&docId=7380136
https://data.epo.org/publication-ser.../document.html

It's too deep for me though, to figure out yet (plus I have no way of
knowing if mine uses a similar circuit).
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/at...lame-rect..jpg

I've worked on a dozen or so furnace over the
years. I've had to replace one or two flame
sensors, it's a relatively common part to need
to replace. I hope that works for you. When
yours comes in from the parts place. I do hope
you will let us all know how it works out?

BTW, a long reach nut driver with a magnet in
the socket, is your best friend at moments like
this.


-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Ok
I assume when you measure the AC voltage the meter is in the AC volts mode.
And the meter is in the DC current mode when you try to measure the small DC current?
And the leads are plugged into the meter correctly?
On some meters you have to plug the leads into different jack for current measurments.

Mark

Tony Hwang wrote, on Thu, 25 Dec 2014 15:40:38 -0700:

There is only one high Wattage resistor, about middle center of the
board.

You are correct.

That control board P/N 1012-940-J HK42FZ009 has one tan inch-long
rectangular resistor on standoffs in the middle of the board.

There are a few blue resistors with holes cut underneath them also.

Absolutely none look burnt.

Once I get the new flame sensor, I'll cross my fingers and hope that
resolves the problem (although I can't realistically see how it will
given how simple that sensor is mechanically).

If nothing changes, then I'll pull the board, and go over every trace.

Worst case, I'll buy a new control board.

One supplier told me the replacement was this board:
https://www.arnoldservice.com/bryant...it-325878-751/

QUESTION: Why do I need a $200 "conversion kit"?
Can't I just replace the board, 1 to 1?

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 26 Dec 2014 07:50:48 -0500:

BTW, a long reach nut driver with a magnet in
the socket, is your best friend at moments like
this.

You are 100% on the money with that nut-driver suggestion!

My 1/4-inch nut driver has too short a reach, so, it keeps
banging on the gas pipe every time I remove and replace the
burners.

The small 1/4-inch screw keeps falling off the end of the nut d
river, since you have a few inches before it touches metal.

I have scraped a magnet along the nut driver, which works
somewhat, but certainly, if I did this for a living, I'd buy
exactly what you suggest!

makolber wrote, on Fri, 26 Dec 2014 09:17:41 -0800:

I assume when you measure the AC voltage the meter is in the AC volts mode.
And the meter is in the DC current mode when you try to measure the small DC current?
And the leads are plugged into the meter correctly?
On some meters you have to plug the leads into different jack for current measurments.

Heh heh.

It wouldn't be the first time I accidentally crossed leads, but, in this case,
I am doubly sure I hooked up all the leads correctly.

At the moment, I'm giving up until the new flame sensor arrives.
If it works, I'll let you know.

I can't imagine anything going wrong with that thing though, since it's utterly
simple. I can't think of a simpler sensor (save for maybe a peephole).

If the new sensor doesn't fix the problem, then I will move on to removing
the circuit board, and then examining every trace and component.

If I have to, I'll buy a new board, Bryant P/N 1012-940-J HK42FZ009
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7517/1...15b36c3e_b.jpg

Danny D. wrote, on Fri, 26 Dec 2014 23:49:18 +0000:

If the new sensor doesn't fix the problem, then I will move on to removing
the circuit board, and then examining every trace and component.

In addition, considering the original problem, I will see if I can
go back to the circuit breaker, to figure out if, somehow, the
neutral and hot were flipped (but I can't imagine how that could
happen).

On 12/26/2014 6:45 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 26 Dec 2014 07:50:48 -0500:

BTW, a long reach nut driver with a magnet in
the socket, is your best friend at moments like
this.

You are 100% on the money with that nut-driver suggestion!

My 1/4-inch nut driver has too short a reach, so, it keeps
banging on the gas pipe every time I remove and replace the
burners.

The small 1/4-inch screw keeps falling off the end of the nut d
river, since you have a few inches before it touches metal.

I have scraped a magnet along the nut driver, which works
somewhat, but certainly, if I did this for a living, I'd buy
exactly what you suggest!

I got a red in 1/4 and yellow in 5/16. They were about
$15 each, and I loved em so much I bought a set for my
other vehicle.

As a work around. Take a magnetic 1/4 nutsetter tip sold
separately, in the screw driver section of the hardware.
Slip the shaft into the end of your 1/4 nut driver. Wrap
the intersect with three or four layers of electrical tape,
pulled tightly as you wrap. This will get you by for
the next dozen jobs.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/26/2014 6:53 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Danny D. wrote, on Fri, 26 Dec 2014 23:49:18 +0000:

If the new sensor doesn't fix the problem, then I will move on to removing
the circuit board, and then examining every trace and component.

In addition, considering the original problem, I will see if I can
go back to the circuit breaker, to figure out if, somehow, the
neutral and hot were flipped (but I can't imagine how that could
happen).


Just reminded me of some thing. I've worked on a
couple furnace, that had a bit of corrosion on the
multipin connectors. You'd only need a few minutes
to (one at a time only) remove each of the multipin
plastic connectors off the board. Light spray of
WD-40 and replace. OK to remove and replace twice.

Some times, a light bit of corrosion interferes with
how things work.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 23:45:59 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 26 Dec 2014 07:50:48 -0500:

BTW, a long reach nut driver with a magnet in
the socket, is your best friend at moments like
this.

You are 100% on the money with that nut-driver suggestion!

My 1/4-inch nut driver has too short a reach, so, it keeps
banging on the gas pipe every time I remove and replace the
burners.

The small 1/4-inch screw keeps falling off the end of the nut d
river, since you have a few inches before it touches metal.

I have scraped a magnet along the nut driver, which works
somewhat, but certainly, if I did this for a living, I'd buy
exactly what you suggest!

In tight spots you can't beat a flexible shaft extension... a neat
tool. Add one to your tool box.

Pic:

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1323207652_1/screwdriver-flexible-extension-Driver-shaft-font-b-hex-b-font-font-b-bit-b-font-holder.jpg

https://tinyurl.com/nd45qvw

On Friday, December 26, 2014 7:26:23 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 23:45:59 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 26 Dec 2014 07:50:48 -0500:

BTW, a long reach nut driver with a magnet in
the socket, is your best friend at moments like
this.

You are 100% on the money with that nut-driver suggestion!

My 1/4-inch nut driver has too short a reach, so, it keeps
banging on the gas pipe every time I remove and replace the
burners.

The small 1/4-inch screw keeps falling off the end of the nut d
river, since you have a few inches before it touches metal.

I have scraped a magnet along the nut driver, which works
somewhat, but certainly, if I did this for a living, I'd buy
exactly what you suggest!

In tight spots you can't beat a flexible shaft extension... a neat
tool. Add one to your tool box.

Pic:

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1323207652_1/screwdriver-flexible-extension-Driver-shaft-font-b-hex-b-font-font-b-bit-b-font-holder.jpg

https://tinyurl.com/nd45qvw

Thanks for the tip. I had never seen one before. I have seen flexible
shaft drivers, like for hose hose clamps. Couple times now I wished I
had one when working on the BMW. One clamp on the intake boot is a real
bitch. I even went looking for one locally, but couldn't find it. So,
the job gets done and then I forget about it, until the next time, when
I wish I had it again. Your general purpose flex extension could do the
hose clamps and more.

trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 04:23:32 -0800:

Couple times now I wished I
had one when working on the BMW.

Which bimmer? E39 perhaps?

On Saturday, December 27, 2014 8:58:09 AM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 04:23:32 -0800:

Couple times now I wished I
had one when working on the BMW.

Which bimmer? E39 perhaps?

X5, but I think they used the M54 6 cylinder engine in the 3 series too.
BMW has a lot of pluses, but a lot more bad designs, quality issues,
etc than you'd expect too.

trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 06:03:06 -0800:

X5, but I think they used the M54 6 cylinder engine in the 3 series too.
BMW has a lot of pluses, but a lot more bad designs, quality issues,
etc than you'd expect too.

I know the M54 well. All too well.

Don't have a clue about the wife's Japanese car. It never breaks.
The bimmer? It's like Hanukkah - every day another light.

Everything but the engine breaks on the bimmer!
The cooling system expansion tank explodes!
The vanos valve adjustment seals are made out of the wrong rubber!
The headlight adjustment pins are made out of the wrong plastic!
The windshield cover molding is made out of the wrong rubber!
The abs control module is placed too close to the exhaust manifold!
The door vapor barriers are glued with the wrong adhesive!
The cheap plastic disa valve plastic pin injests into the engine!
The cheap sap valve freezes destroying the expensive sap pump!
The liquid-filled thrust arm bushings leak!
The window regulators fall off their tracks!
The noisy mechanical belt tensioners squeal!

And that's just in the last six months!

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 04:23:32 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, December 26, 2014 7:26:23 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 26 Dec 2014 23:45:59 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 26 Dec 2014 07:50:48 -0500:

BTW, a long reach nut driver with a magnet in
the socket, is your best friend at moments like
this.

You are 100% on the money with that nut-driver suggestion!

My 1/4-inch nut driver has too short a reach, so, it keeps
banging on the gas pipe every time I remove and replace the
burners.

The small 1/4-inch screw keeps falling off the end of the nut d
river, since you have a few inches before it touches metal.

I have scraped a magnet along the nut driver, which works
somewhat, but certainly, if I did this for a living, I'd buy
exactly what you suggest!

In tight spots you can't beat a flexible shaft extension... a neat
tool. Add one to your tool box.

Pic:

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1323207652_1/screwdriver-flexible-extension-Driver-shaft-font-b-hex-b-font-font-b-bit-b-font-holder.jpg

https://tinyurl.com/nd45qvw

Thanks for the tip. I had never seen one before. I have seen flexible
shaft drivers, like for hose hose clamps. Couple times now I wished I
had one when working on the BMW. One clamp on the intake boot is a real
bitch. I even went looking for one locally, but couldn't find it. So,
the job gets done and then I forget about it, until the next time, when
I wish I had it again. Your general purpose flex extension could do the
hose clamps and more.

I have a couple of short ones for use around the house. Forgot the
name brand. You can get longer ones, though.

Examples:

"Eazypower 30167 40-Inch Flexible Drill Extension with 1/4-Inch Keyed
Chuck"

http://www.amazon.com/Eazypower-30167-40-Inch-Flexible-Extension/dp/B0009XAFXU

https://tinyurl.com/pfaudw9

"Anytime Tools 203032 Flexible Socket Extension Flex Bar Ratchet
Auto/Mechanic Tools, 1/4-Inch Drive and 3/8-Inch Drive, 4-Piece"

http://www.amazon.com/Anytime-Tools-203032-Flexible-Extension/dp/B00129IG7W/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_5/190-4254571-9722927?ie=UTF8&refRID=0H86DX3ZRJRZ4FXVFD58

https://tinyurl.com/oynwl2v

On Saturday, December 27, 2014 12:20:26 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 06:03:06 -0800:

X5, but I think they used the M54 6 cylinder engine in the 3 series too.
BMW has a lot of pluses, but a lot more bad designs, quality issues,
etc than you'd expect too.

I know the M54 well. All too well.

Don't have a clue about the wife's Japanese car. It never breaks.
The bimmer? It's like Hanukkah - every day another light.

Everything but the engine breaks on the bimmer!
The cooling system expansion tank explodes!
The vanos valve adjustment seals are made out of the wrong rubber!

I'd say the latter is part of the engine for sure, some would include
the expansion tank too.

Your comment about the wrong rubber, I've said that not about the
vanos seals, but about a lot of other things. Their rubber and rubber
like components are so bad, that I've said the CEO's brother in law
or cousin must own the company supplying them. The CV joint boots
fail right and left. A friend has been through Honda CRVs, puts
200K miles on them. He might have had one go here and there, but
nothing like the BMW ones. That bellow like elbow that's part of the
intake, another rubber part that fails too soon. The expansion tank,
haven't had a problem here, but I see on BMW forums that it's a common
failure too.

Don't get me started on the BMW forums. They hate me there, because
I'm not so infatuated with BMW that I won't point out there many flaws.
Those idiots are replacing stuff like the expansion tank as routine
maintenance items. The V8s are waaaay worse. Valve stem seals failing
all over the place at 60K to 100K miles. I mean, wtf? This is worse
than Detroit in the 70s. But the BMW diehards just salute the BMW flag
and keep buying them. The valve stem deal is a bitch, pull the heads,
32 of them to do, it's like $6K at the dealer. And then they have
various other seals leaking, oil pan seals, God knows what else.


The headlight adjustment pins are made out of the wrong plastic!
The windshield cover molding is made out of the wrong rubber!
The abs control module is placed too close to the exhaust manifold!
The door vapor barriers are glued with the wrong adhesive!
The cheap plastic disa valve plastic pin injests into the engine!

The DISA went here too. The whole DISA thing is another example
of BMW over thinking. Allegedly by adding that abortion, they
can tune the intake resonance for better mid-range performance.
Maybe somebody, somewhere can notice the difference, but not me.
I drove the X5 for a year with the thing not operating at all
and never noticed a difference.


The cheap sap valve freezes destroying the expensive sap pump!
The liquid-filled thrust arm bushings leak!
The window regulators fall off their tracks!

Yep. Cable breaks, down she goes! One went while just sitting
in the driveway. Three have failed total. That's another one the
BMW forum guys try to make excuses for.



The noisy mechanical belt tensioners squeal!

And that's just in the last six months!

How about the great crankcase ventilation system? You probably don't
have a problem, being in CA. Almost all the other manufacturers use a
simple, proven, reliable system. BMW decided to use an external oil
separator. Combustion gasses are routed from the crankcase, to an
oil separator, that then has a line sending the oil it recovers from
the gasses back to the crankcase. The only problem is that the
combustion gasses have steam in them too and when you send it out
of the hot engine, in winter in these parts, it condenses inside the
oil separator. The whole thing gets clogged with mayo like gunk and
instead of the oil going back to the crankcase, the line is plugged, so
it gets burned. Worse case, when the oil separator fails, it actually
sucks oil directly from the oil pan into the intake and can hydrolock
the engine. Actually oil lock, but same idea. Here's a video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZGUk6w_y6A

I've never seen that on any other car.

trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:10:29 -0800:

Your comment about the wrong rubber, I've said that not about the
vanos seals, but about a lot of other things.

Apparently they used buna-N nitrile rubber on the vanos seals.
Actually, "seals" is a fancy word for "o rings".
BMW won't sell you the nitrile or even better, viton, o rings.
But Beisan will, for 60 bucks!

For the windshield cover molding, they all fall apart.
Every single one.
Luckily, it's just cosmetic (a bit of noise too) and not water
tightness that's at stake, but, you'd think a big company like
BMW can afford to do a modicum of outside testing of their
materials.

For the headlight adjusters, they used something called pbt
for the plastic, instead of nylon or delrin. So they *all*
crumble. Not one survives a few years. It wouldn't be so bad
except that a new headlight set is $1,000 because of the silly
fiber optic cables in it that don't do anything useful except
make the pretty celos halos work.

For the expensive disa valve, they used a cheap plastic retainer.
There are titanium aftermarket repairs, which, if some aftermarket
guy on a forum can figure out, you'd think BMW could figure it
out also. It wouldn't be so bad except there is *nothing* stopping
that pin from being ingested into the engine. Nothing good can
come of that.

And don't even get me started on their abs control module
placement, so close to the engine to save money on the wiring
harness that it fails on *every* single newer E39 ever built!
(the oldest E39s have the module under the glove compartment
and they don't fail).

Likewise, not one E39 has ever survived without the cooling
system blowing up, or the FSU burning out, or the trunk loom
wiring chafing at the exact same spot in every single car
(and don't even talk about the cupholders, every one of which
breaks within a year of use).

Now, the car handles well, and the engine "internals" are
very durable. Most engines die from the cooling system failing
or the disa valve pin being ingested, not from wear and tear.

trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:10:29 -0800:

The expansion tank, haven't had a problem here,
but I see on BMW forums that it's a common
failure too.

Every single E39 has had at least one, but most by now have had
two or three expansion tanks. I'm on my third.

One problem is that you absolutely cannot overfill the things.
They are extremely complex and have many parts inside of them.
They're more of a "system" than a "tank".

The aftermarket manufacturers 1.2 bar caps to replace the 2bar
caps, but that only protects them in case of an overheating.

They break at the seams, or the nipple at the top just falls
off and the level measurement rod falls off. Behr/Hella is
the OEM but Behr is mostly made in China and South Africa
nowadays, and the quality is even worse (if that can be
imagined) than the originals.

trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:10:29 -0800:

Don't get me started on the BMW forums. They hate me there, because
I'm not so infatuated with BMW that I won't point out there many flaws.
Those idiots are replacing stuff like the expansion tank as routine
maintenance items.

I know.

The common advice is to replace the *entire* cooling system the moment
any one part goes.

The logic is that you'll be replacing it anyway, so, why wrench that
stuff twice.

They usually replace all the BMW hoses, the Behr/Hella expansion tank,
the Behr radiator (with a Nissens or Zionsville), the BMW plastic
electric thermostat, a Steward waterpump, the viscous fan clutch, and,
while they're at it the serpentine belt, two tensioners, and the
idler pulley.

Ask me how I know.

trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:10:29 -0800:

And then they have
various other seals leaking, oil pan seals,

On the E39, the oil filter housing gasket is also
made out of the wrong rubber (again buna nitrile).

Just this year, finally, BMW changed *every* gasket and
o ring that comes in contact with oil from Buna-N to
Viton.

So, we're all waiting for someone else to buy their
existing stock, and nobody wants to buy an o-ring or
gasket from BMW until they get rid of all their Buna
stuff.

You'd think a company with this much experience making
cars would use a fifty-cent o-ring material that didn't
disintegrate in contact with motor oil!

trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:10:29 -0800:

The DISA went here too. The whole DISA thing is another example
of BMW over thinking. Allegedly by adding that abortion, they
can tune the intake resonance for better mid-range performance.

Yup. You know the DISA well. The only good thing about that thing
is that it's easy to remove. But, BMW won't sell you the o-ring.

So, you can't even *look* at it, to see if the pin is about to
be eaten in your engine, without introducing a vacuum leak!

Most of us buy the aftermarket o-rings, and every year or two,
we remove the DISA to check on that pin. Once the pin gets loose,
you *must* either replace the DISA or rebuilt it with the aftermarket
titanium pin.

What gets me is how *cheap* that DISA is built, yet, it's so darn
expensive! There is only 1 supplier in the entire world!

And, as you said, it's way overthought. I never fully understood
it, but, as you said, it changes the resonance of the intake
by stopping air or letting it go by, lengthening and shortening
intake - but - I disconnected the electrical connector, as a test,
and couldn't notice the difference.

Sometimes I think they just put these things on the car so that
the guy selling the car can tell the prospective customer how
cool the engine is managed.

trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:10:29 -0800:

Yep. Cable breaks, down she goes! One went while just sitting
in the driveway. Three have failed total. That's another one the
BMW forum guys try to make excuses for.

I agree!
The window regulators are an absolute abomination!

In the rear, they have a "trolley" mechanism that is made out of
soft lead. It wears and falls off. Window stays put. Motor still
moves trolley. Crunch. Dumb dumb dumb design.

Again, the aftermarket kicked in with a redesigned trolley.

The fronts are even worse. The cable slips off the cheap plastic
pulleys. You can't buy a new pulley. You can't restring the cable
(at least not easily). You generally buy a new regulator. Like
clockwork. Once every two years, you buy a new window regulator.

You can't bolt the front windows down.

You'd think BMW, with decades of experience making cars, could
design a simple window to go up and down without breaking.

Of course, they're fancy, in that the window will never chop
off a finger, and the electronics are one-button press and the
window opens or closes all the way, but that's all in the switch
and molding sensors around the window, and not in the regulator
at all.

An abomination it is.

On 12/27/2014 7:43 PM, Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:10:29 -0800:

The DISA went here too. The whole DISA thing is another example
of BMW over thinking. Allegedly by adding that abortion, they
can tune the intake resonance for better mid-range performance.

Yup. You know the DISA well. The only good thing about that thing
is that it's easy to remove. But, BMW won't sell you the o-ring.

So, you can't even *look* at it, to see if the pin is about to
be eaten in your engine, without introducing a vacuum leak!

Most of us buy the aftermarket o-rings, and every year or two,
we remove the DISA to check on that pin. Once the pin gets loose,
you *must* either replace the DISA or rebuilt it with the aftermarket
titanium pin.

What gets me is how *cheap* that DISA is built, yet, it's so darn
expensive! There is only 1 supplier in the entire world!

And, as you said, it's way overthought. I never fully understood
it, but, as you said, it changes the resonance of the intake
by stopping air or letting it go by, lengthening and shortening
intake - but - I disconnected the electrical connector, as a test,
and couldn't notice the difference.

Sometimes I think they just put these things on the car so that
the guy selling the car can tell the prospective customer how
cool the engine is managed.

The more I consider, the more I wonder if the
multipin Molex connectors need exercising?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/27/2014 7:48 PM, Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:10:29 -0800:

Yep. Cable breaks, down she goes! One went while just sitting
in the driveway. Three have failed total. That's another one the
BMW forum guys try to make excuses for.

I agree!
The window regulators are an absolute abomination!

In the rear, they have a "trolley" mechanism that is made out of
soft lead. It wears and falls off. Window stays put. Motor still
moves trolley. Crunch. Dumb dumb dumb design.

Again, the aftermarket kicked in with a redesigned trolley.

The fronts are even worse. The cable slips off the cheap plastic
pulleys. You can't buy a new pulley. You can't restring the cable
(at least not easily). You generally buy a new regulator. Like
clockwork. Once every two years, you buy a new window regulator.

You can't bolt the front windows down.

You'd think BMW, with decades of experience making cars, could
design a simple window to go up and down without breaking.

Of course, they're fancy, in that the window will never chop
off a finger, and the electronics are one-button press and the
window opens or closes all the way, but that's all in the switch
and molding sensors around the window, and not in the regulator
at all.

An abomination it is.

Did you get the new flame sensor in?


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 17:19:59 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Don't have a clue about the wife's Japanese car. It never breaks.
The bimmer? It's like Hanukkah - every day another light.

Everything but the engine breaks on the bimmer!
The cooling system expansion tank explodes!
The vanos valve adjustment seals are made out of the wrong rubber!
The headlight adjustment pins are made out of the wrong plastic!
The windshield cover molding is made out of the wrong rubber!
The abs control module is placed too close to the exhaust manifold!
The door vapor barriers are glued with the wrong adhesive!
The cheap plastic disa valve plastic pin injests into the engine!
The cheap sap valve freezes destroying the expensive sap pump!
The liquid-filled thrust arm bushings leak!
The window regulators fall off their tracks!
The noisy mechanical belt tensioners squeal!

And that's just in the last six months!

If the red LED lights blink constantly, buy a Ford or Toyota...G

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 19:57:05 -0500:

Did you get the new flame sensor in?

It's supposed to arrive on Tuesday due to the holidays.
I gave up, until then.
Am working on the neighbor's bridge, which blew down in the
recent storms. (Pictures to follow separately.)

On Saturday, December 27, 2014 7:43:39 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:10:29 -0800:

The DISA went here too. The whole DISA thing is another example
of BMW over thinking. Allegedly by adding that abortion, they
can tune the intake resonance for better mid-range performance.

Yup. You know the DISA well. The only good thing about that thing
is that it's easy to remove. But, BMW won't sell you the o-ring.

So, you can't even *look* at it, to see if the pin is about to
be eaten in your engine, without introducing a vacuum leak!

Most of us buy the aftermarket o-rings, and every year or two,
we remove the DISA to check on that pin. Once the pin gets loose,
you *must* either replace the DISA or rebuilt it with the aftermarket
titanium pin.

What gets me is how *cheap* that DISA is built, yet, it's so darn
expensive! There is only 1 supplier in the entire world!

And, as you said, it's way overthought. I never fully understood
it, but, as you said, it changes the resonance of the intake
by stopping air or letting it go by, lengthening and shortening
intake - but - I disconnected the electrical connector, as a test,
and couldn't notice the difference.

Sometimes I think they just put these things on the car so that
the guy selling the car can tell the prospective customer how
cool the engine is managed.

Like those guys over at the BMW forums. They are actually proud of
all the failures! They come to brag about how many DISAs, expansion
tanks, FSUs, etc they've changed. And if you dare to say those kinds
of things shouldn't be happening in a BMW, they tell you that you're
an idiot, that it's a *performance* car, that it can't be compared to
a Honda. Like that explains things like the expansion tank, poor seals,
blower resistor units that fail, window regulators that break on 3 doors,
etc.

Like I said, from a quality standpoint, it's like Detroit in the 70s.
You have to really wonder what kind of quality control system they have.
Have they even heard of ISO9000? How can they not have all kind of
data coming back that says they have serious problems, many of which
are easy to fix, yet they keep building crap?

On Saturday, December 27, 2014 7:48:32 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:10:29 -0800:

Yep. Cable breaks, down she goes! One went while just sitting
in the driveway. Three have failed total. That's another one the
BMW forum guys try to make excuses for.

I agree!
The window regulators are an absolute abomination!

In the rear, they have a "trolley" mechanism that is made out of
soft lead. It wears and falls off. Window stays put. Motor still
moves trolley. Crunch. Dumb dumb dumb design.

Again, the aftermarket kicked in with a redesigned trolley.

The fronts are even worse. The cable slips off the cheap plastic
pulleys. You can't buy a new pulley. You can't restring the cable
(at least not easily). You generally buy a new regulator. Like
clockwork. Once every two years, you buy a new window regulator.

You can't bolt the front windows down.

You'd think BMW, with decades of experience making cars, could
design a simple window to go up and down without breaking.

Of course, they're fancy, in that the window will never chop
off a finger, and the electronics are one-button press and the
window opens or closes all the way, but that's all in the switch
and molding sensors around the window, and not in the regulator
at all.

An abomination it is.

For anyone here not familiar, on the X5 when the window regulator fails,
it sends the window glass crashing down into the door, usually breaking
it into a million pieces.

In decades of driving many vehicles, everything from a Fiat to MB,
I've only had one other window regulator fail. That was on a MB
when I took it to a car wash when it was 20F out and later went to
put the window down to pay a toll. The window was frozen stuck, and
it broke the regulator. The window was fine. On the BMW I've had
3 go, taking out 2 windows.

On 12/27/2014 9:41 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 19:57:05 -0500:

Did you get the new flame sensor in?

It's supposed to arrive on Tuesday due to the holidays.
I gave up, until then.
Am working on the neighbor's bridge, which blew down in the
recent storms. (Pictures to follow separately.)


Is your place cold enough to need heat? I thought
California was all sunny and warm all year around?

What are you using for heat, now?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 07:54:27 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/27/2014 9:41 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sat, 27 Dec 2014 19:57:05 -0500:

Did you get the new flame sensor in?

It's supposed to arrive on Tuesday due to the holidays.
I gave up, until then.
Am working on the neighbor's bridge, which blew down in the
recent storms. (Pictures to follow separately.)


Is your place cold enough to need heat? I thought
California was all sunny and warm all year around?

What are you using for heat, now?

Danny lives West of the Sierra Mountains, northern PRC gets cold,
roads are closed then due to snow storms in the Sierra's

It is freezing in Vegas at night. We expect or forecasted to have a
little snow in Las Vegas by Wednesday. Freezing at night. Lower
elevations in PRC, coastal regions is not as severe.

Contrary. Much of northern PRC do not have air conditioning.

I'm covering water pipes East of the Sierra Mountains.

It's freaking cold wearing my short pants today in the Mojave Desert.

"What are you using for heat, now?" - Energy

On 12/28/2014 6:58 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 07:54:27 -0500, Stormin Mormon

Is your place cold enough to need heat? I thought
California was all sunny and warm all year around?

What are you using for heat, now?

Danny lives West of the Sierra Mountains, northern PRC gets cold,
roads are closed then due to snow storms in the Sierra's



Thanks, didn't know that.

Learn some thing every day.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 20:06:27 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/28/2014 6:58 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 07:54:27 -0500, Stormin Mormon

Is your place cold enough to need heat? I thought
California was all sunny and warm all year around?

What are you using for heat, now?

Danny lives West of the Sierra Mountains, northern PRC gets cold,
roads are closed then due to snow storms in the Sierra's



Thanks, didn't know that.

Learn some thing every day.


Think about Donner Pass over the mountains. Folks became cannibals to
survive. Ate members of their party that died from the elements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Pass#Weather

"...The pass was named after a later group of California-bound
emigrants. In early November 1846 the Donner Party found the route
blocked by snow and was forced to spend the winter on the east side of
the mountains. Of the 81 emigrants, only 45 survived to reach
California; some of them resorted to cannibalism to survive."

On 12/28/2014 8:36 PM, Oren wrote:

Think about Donner Pass over the mountains. Folks became cannibals to
survive. Ate members of their party that died from the elements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Pass#Weather

"...The pass was named after a later group of California-bound
emigrants. In early November 1846 the Donner Party found the route
blocked by snow and was forced to spend the winter on the east side of
the mountains. Of the 81 emigrants, only 45 survived to reach
California; some of them resorted to cannibalism to survive."


Danny will soon have to eat his grand kids to
stay alive?

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

trader_4 wrote, on Sun, 28 Dec 2014 04:10:58 -0800:

They replaced a proven, simple, PCV type design that almost
everyone else uses with a complicated abortion.

Yeah. Did you ever try to find the EGR valve?
On my M54, there isn't an EGR valve.
They do that function with the dual camshaft VANOS instead.
It's really crazy stuff.

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Sun, 28 Dec 2014 07:54:27 -0500:

Is your place cold enough to need heat? I thought
California was all sunny and warm all year around?

What are you using for heat, now?

The house has three separate furnaces.
Two are down, and have been down for a couple of years.
We usually don't bother using them.

It rarely gets below freezing - maybe once a year or twice at most.
No snow (a dusting once every five years).

We use warm blankets. Lots of them!
The only problem is I'm soured on down.
I bought perhaps ten down blankets over the years, mostly at
Costco, and while they're soft, they tear and bunch up in the
wash, so much that I'm not going to buy down ever again.

We have goose feathers all over the house.

Danny D. wrote, on Sun, 28 Dec 2014 02:41:33 +0000:

Did you get the new flame sensor in?
It's supposed to arrive on Tuesday due to the holidays.

Woo hoo! Who would have thought a stainless steel rod could fail!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8565/1...6ed2ba81_b.jpg

The moment I put the new one in, the heater worked like a charm!
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7522/1...39c96820_c.jpg

The meter still read 0.0 microamps, so, I'm sure the fuse was
already blown before I got it!
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7563/1...5a45a263_c.jpg

You guys were right all along!

Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:01:01 -0500:

Danny will soon have to eat his grand kids to
stay alive?

We're still feeding them to fatten 'em up first!
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7522/1...f6b75fee_b.jpg