On 12/31/2011 5:13 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2012-01-01, Steve wrote:

Holy crap! All these years, I thought it was a baseline. X# of torque,
plus 1/8 turn (just because that's the way Grumpa did it), then a little
more just in case the unexpected happened.

You and gramps were WRONG!

Torque specs are based on several variables, but the purpose of torque
specs are the same. It's to take the fastener to the elongation
(stretch) point where the fastener will hold without coming loose. A
properly torqued fastener does not need a lock washer to prevent it
from loosening. It has been tightened to that fine point where the
threads will not deform or fail, yet are held in enough tension that
they will not loosen by themself.

Of course, this is under ideal and/or stable conditions and does not
take into account severe vibration or heat/cold contraction/expansion.
It also applies to bolts that are of certain materials, like grade 8
hardened bolts. Softer material fasteners are why lock washers or
other supplimentary devices (Loctite, lock nuts, etc) are sometimes
called for.

Regardless of the variables, when torque specs are provided, you do
NOT go "plus 1/8 turn".

As for sparkplugs, all sparkplugs have a compressible washer and it
should be replaced with a new one every single time a sparkplug is
removed, wether or not you are putting back the old spark plug or not.
If not, jes tighten till tight. Don't add an extra 1/8-1/4 turn.
Anohter old trick is always add oil! ....even if jes a couple drops
from the dirty crankcase dipstick. Also, Helicoils are OK if you
can't do better or have limited material dia to drill out, but key
inserts, like Keenserts, are a better product. Helicoil has had
quality issues and I've had to remove a bunch of 'em when it was
discovered a batch was defective.

nb


ACTUALLY *MOST* spark plugs these days are taper seat. No gasket.



--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2012-01-01, Steve Barker wrote:

ACTUALLY *MOST* spark plugs these days are taper seat. No gasket.

Are they, now!?

That may well be, as I confess to not having worked as a engine
mechanic for many years. I recall that Fords were the only tapered
seat plugs I encountered, being a motorcycle, small engine, and
outboard engine mechanic at various stages in my life. No doubt, much
has changed, though I still occasionally work on my own cars and can't
think of any brand I've run across, still other than Ford, the use
them. Not to say you are incorrect, jes that my cane doesn't require
them.

nb

--
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

On 01/01/2012 01:39 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

" wrote:

I had a couple of those. The receiver kept falling off the bottom when in the
case, and the batteries were always dead. I like the newer ones (M205/M505)
much better. They have a "nano receiver" (never have to take it out of the
USB port) and a switch to turn them off. There is a carrying slot for the
receiver, if you don't want to keep it in the system. OfficeMax just had the
M205 on sale for $15 and the M505 for $20.


This Logitech M215 has a "nano receiver", and is a full sized mouse.
it has held up the longest of any mouse I've ever tried. The worst was
a Phillips. It failed within five minutes of opening the package. It
was a sample I bought, when I owned a computer store. I had bought
about a dozen mice of various brands and models to test, before adding
them to the inventory. About half were unacceptable, but it was the
only one that fell apart.


I wish more retailers were like you... seems like so much stuff on the
shelves is garbage.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

In article ,
says...

"J. Clarke" wrote:

It's a funny thing about these stores--I remember needing some plumbing
fitting or other, checked the Lowes site and found that the nearest
store had a bunch of them in stock. So I went down to the store and
looked for it and didn't find it. I asked at the customer service desk
and they called all over the store and nobody in the store could find
it. So I went home and ordered it online for pickup in that store and
went back and they had it waiting for me. Dunno why they could find it
for an online order but not for somebody standing there in the store.


They probably found it in the stockroom, or it was still on a truck
when you were there.

They didn't even know where it was _supposed_ to be.

In article , says...

On 01/01/2012 01:39 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

" wrote:

I had a couple of those. The receiver kept falling off the bottom when in the
case, and the batteries were always dead. I like the newer ones (M205/M505)
much better. They have a "nano receiver" (never have to take it out of the
USB port) and a switch to turn them off. There is a carrying slot for the
receiver, if you don't want to keep it in the system. OfficeMax just had the
M205 on sale for $15 and the M505 for $20.


This Logitech M215 has a "nano receiver", and is a full sized mouse.
it has held up the longest of any mouse I've ever tried. The worst was
a Phillips. It failed within five minutes of opening the package. It
was a sample I bought, when I owned a computer store. I had bought
about a dozen mice of various brands and models to test, before adding
them to the inventory. About half were unacceptable, but it was the
only one that fell apart.


I wish more retailers were like you... seems like so much stuff on the
shelves is garbage.

FWIW, the big problem with the Logitechs seems to be the microswitches.
They tend to die young with the result being unintended double-clicks.
If you read the Amazon reviews you'll find numerous accounts of this
problem, and it affects more than one model, from the high to the low
end of the range. It's not correctable by cleaning. It's bad enough
that you can buy kits of two third-party replacement microswitches off
of Amazon or ebay.

Worse, it's an intermittent. Mine's been behaving for the last week or
so. Before that it was doubling regularly on me.

On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 10:19:05 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article , says...

On 01/01/2012 01:39 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

" wrote:

I had a couple of those. The receiver kept falling off the bottom when in the
case, and the batteries were always dead. I like the newer ones (M205/M505)
much better. They have a "nano receiver" (never have to take it out of the
USB port) and a switch to turn them off. There is a carrying slot for the
receiver, if you don't want to keep it in the system. OfficeMax just had the
M205 on sale for $15 and the M505 for $20.


This Logitech M215 has a "nano receiver", and is a full sized mouse.
it has held up the longest of any mouse I've ever tried. The worst was
a Phillips. It failed within five minutes of opening the package. It
was a sample I bought, when I owned a computer store. I had bought
about a dozen mice of various brands and models to test, before adding
them to the inventory. About half were unacceptable, but it was the
only one that fell apart.


I wish more retailers were like you... seems like so much stuff on the
shelves is garbage.

FWIW, the big problem with the Logitechs seems to be the microswitches.
They tend to die young with the result being unintended double-clicks.
If you read the Amazon reviews you'll find numerous accounts of this
problem, and it affects more than one model, from the high to the low
end of the range. It's not correctable by cleaning. It's bad enough
that you can buy kits of two third-party replacement microswitches off
of Amazon or ebay.

Worse, it's an intermittent. Mine's been behaving for the last week or
so. Before that it was doubling regularly on me.

I've been using the Logitech wireless since about 1994 or so.
I had a mouse that did that some years ago. It had seen a lot of use.
But I always wondered how those switches last as long as they do with
all that clicking.
Also had some keys stop working.
Always got a lot of use out of them first though.
My son has taken a few keyboards apart and fixed them, but I just move
on to new ones. I tried it once, and it was too much hassle.
I liked the EX 110 combos, and when the last one had a bad key I
thought I bought 2 more, but actually got the EX 100.
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Cordl...pr_product_top

Still using the first one after 2 years and the other is still boxed
on a nearby shelf. Good bang for the buck.
They discontinued the EX 110.
It's all personal taste.
I used to like the IBM clicking keyboards.
Quickly got over that with the first Logitech.
I've tried trackball mice and expensive gaming mice.
Didn't like them.
Always end up using the mouse like in the above link.
Medium size, basic "teardrop shape."
My hand covers it with heel of hand on desk.
Just a tiny bit of wrist movement covers the screen.

--Vic

On 1/1/2012 3:50 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 10:19:05 -0500, "J.
wrote:

In , says...

On 01/01/2012 01:39 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

" wrote:

I had a couple of those. The receiver kept falling off the bottom when in the
case, and the batteries were always dead. I like the newer ones (M205/M505)
much better. They have a "nano receiver" (never have to take it out of the
USB port) and a switch to turn them off. There is a carrying slot for the
receiver, if you don't want to keep it in the system. OfficeMax just had the
M205 on sale for $15 and the M505 for $20.


This Logitech M215 has a "nano receiver", and is a full sized mouse.
it has held up the longest of any mouse I've ever tried. The worst was
a Phillips. It failed within five minutes of opening the package. It
was a sample I bought, when I owned a computer store. I had bought
about a dozen mice of various brands and models to test, before adding
them to the inventory. About half were unacceptable, but it was the
only one that fell apart.


I wish more retailers were like you... seems like so much stuff on the
shelves is garbage.

FWIW, the big problem with the Logitechs seems to be the microswitches.
They tend to die young with the result being unintended double-clicks.
If you read the Amazon reviews you'll find numerous accounts of this
problem, and it affects more than one model, from the high to the low
end of the range. It's not correctable by cleaning. It's bad enough
that you can buy kits of two third-party replacement microswitches off
of Amazon or ebay.

Worse, it's an intermittent. Mine's been behaving for the last week or
so. Before that it was doubling regularly on me.

I've been using the Logitech wireless since about 1994 or so.
I had a mouse that did that some years ago. It had seen a lot of use.
But I always wondered how those switches last as long as they do with
all that clicking.
Also had some keys stop working.
Always got a lot of use out of them first though.
My son has taken a few keyboards apart and fixed them, but I just move
on to new ones. I tried it once, and it was too much hassle.
I liked the EX 110 combos, and when the last one had a bad key I
thought I bought 2 more, but actually got the EX 100.
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Cordl...pr_product_top

Still using the first one after 2 years and the other is still boxed
on a nearby shelf. Good bang for the buck.
They discontinued the EX 110.
It's all personal taste.
I used to like the IBM clicking keyboards.
Quickly got over that with the first Logitech.
I've tried trackball mice and expensive gaming mice.
Didn't like them.
Always end up using the mouse like in the above link.
Medium size, basic "teardrop shape."
My hand covers it with heel of hand on desk.
Just a tiny bit of wrist movement covers the screen.

--Vic


That's the one I have but it's not installed on this box I'm using. It
is very handy if you have a large monitor and you are leaned back in an
easy chair watching movies or posting to Usenet. ^_^

TDD

On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 16:58:09 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:



That's the one I have but it's not installed on this box I'm using. It
is very handy if you have a large monitor and you are leaned back in an
easy chair watching movies or posting to Usenet. ^_^


Think it was about 1993-4 when I went to wireless.
A Logitech wireless keyboard was about 60 bucks.
I was leaned back on a chair with a wired keyboard on my lap playing
Doom.
Something startled me so bad I toppled over backwards with the chair
and almost pulled the IBM PS/1 off the desk.
Screwed up the PS/2 port on the motherboard.
IBM wanted $1800 for a new motherboard - not far from what i paid for
the entire computer.
Luckily, my brother was making diagnostic cards and had the equipment
to redo the broken tracings.
But that's when I decided to go wireless on keyboard.
Wireless mice came later.
Early ones weren't responsive enough for gaming.
Seems USB 1.0 wasn't too good either.
That mouse with a recharging cradle that I didn't like was USB when it
was USB 1.0.
Might have been the mouse itself and nothing to do with USB.
But I avoided USB for mice until recently.
Now that's what I use with USB 2.0 and they work fine.

--Vic

On 1/1/2012 6:39 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 16:58:09 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:



That's the one I have but it's not installed on this box I'm using. It
is very handy if you have a large monitor and you are leaned back in an
easy chair watching movies or posting to Usenet. ^_^


Think it was about 1993-4 when I went to wireless.
A Logitech wireless keyboard was about 60 bucks.
I was leaned back on a chair with a wired keyboard on my lap playing
Doom.
Something startled me so bad I toppled over backwards with the chair
and almost pulled the IBM PS/1 off the desk.
Screwed up the PS/2 port on the motherboard.
IBM wanted $1800 for a new motherboard - not far from what i paid for
the entire computer.
Luckily, my brother was making diagnostic cards and had the equipment
to redo the broken tracings.
But that's when I decided to go wireless on keyboard.
Wireless mice came later.
Early ones weren't responsive enough for gaming.
Seems USB 1.0 wasn't too good either.
That mouse with a recharging cradle that I didn't like was USB when it
was USB 1.0.
Might have been the mouse itself and nothing to do with USB.
But I avoided USB for mice until recently.
Now that's what I use with USB 2.0 and they work fine.

--Vic


Darn, I used to play Doom and Warcraft back then but I haven't played
any PC based games in years. It must be because I use computers for work
instead of just play these days. ^_^

TDD

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Oren wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 19:54:14 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Vic Smith wrote:

Same with plums.
Bought about 6 plums at a fruit store.
Most delicious plums I ever had.
So 2 days later I bought an entire case at the same place.
Different lot. They sucked big time and I tossed nearly all of them.


That will teach you not to eat an entire case of plums at once. ;-)

Hey. I engaged a conversation.

The guy believed in prune trees ....


Prune trees are plum trees that don't get enough water, late in the
season. ;-)


Prune come from ...


The supermarket.


And here I thought they came from the drug store
After all, my aunt was prescribed a serving of prunes every morning by
her doctor.

On 2012-01-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:20:06 -0500, "
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:22:10 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

[ ... ]

Pick up a decent trackball and you wont go back

I hate 'em. My fingers won't take a trackball; very bad ergonomics.

Which brand have you tried? Logitech makes the best by far.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-Wir...-/390371025354

Hmm ... that one would be bad news for me, because I've got 11
computers running up here at the moment (granted, six of them share one
keyboard and mouse via a KVM switch), and keeping one keyboard from
talking to another computer could be a bit tricky. Most people who buy
wireless keyboards and mice are using them on a single computer in a
private location. Picture them all over a computer lab. :-)

I have an earlier usb version of that one..everyone loves it.

This one in fact...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-Tra...-/110798947368

Now that is what I am using -- except that it is the USB flavor,
which my newer Sun workstatons accept happily. (Mine is the silver
finish version, Velcroed to the arm of the Lay-Z-Boy style chair, so it
does not fall off the arm all the time. The old Sun optical mice were
very nice except for that problem. (The Velcro pad keeps me from
reading the precise model number off the bottom of that particular
mouse. :-)

The only repeating problem with these is that (in a house with
two cats) lint accumulates, carried in by the ball, and deposited around
the little Nylon "mountains" which support the ball. I have to pull the
trackball off the arm, reach through with something to pop the ball out,
and blow it out. But even the optical mice would develop a buildup of
lint and skin oils on the sliding pads, which would have to be replaced
from time to time. :-)

No repeative arm motions..just the thumb and two fingers. And mostly the
thumb and one finger (index)

as you may notice with the ebay trackball offers..they always have 6-15
bids. There is a reason for that.

Yep -- very good trackballs. The only disadvantage to this
style is that it is very awkward to use left-handed, so I don't. I used
to swap the mouse to left-handed operation when I was getting close to
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome problems.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2 Jan 2012 05:18:26 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


as you may notice with the ebay trackball offers..they always have 6-15
bids. There is a reason for that.

Yep -- very good trackballs. The only disadvantage to this
style is that it is very awkward to use left-handed, so I don't. I used
to swap the mouse to left-handed operation when I was getting close to
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome problems.

Not sure how old this is...but there are indeed lefthanded trackballs
out there. Logitech does make one as I recall

http://answers.google.com/answers/th...id/283534.html

Then there is this one...

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Inc-T.../dp/B002ZZ405O


Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Works out about the same. Prune, verb, to remove useless crap. Trees, aunts,
much the same effect. Removing useless crap from a living organism.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Attila.Iskander" wrote in message
...

Prune come from ...


The supermarket.


And here I thought they came from the drug store
After all, my aunt was prescribed a serving of prunes every morning by
her doctor.

Nate Nagel wrote:

On 01/01/2012 01:39 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

" wrote:

I had a couple of those. The receiver kept falling off the bottom when in the
case, and the batteries were always dead. I like the newer ones (M205/M505)
much better. They have a "nano receiver" (never have to take it out of the
USB port) and a switch to turn them off. There is a carrying slot for the
receiver, if you don't want to keep it in the system. OfficeMax just had the
M205 on sale for $15 and the M505 for $20.


This Logitech M215 has a "nano receiver", and is a full sized mouse.
it has held up the longest of any mouse I've ever tried. The worst was
a Phillips. It failed within five minutes of opening the package. It
was a sample I bought, when I owned a computer store. I had bought
about a dozen mice of various brands and models to test, before adding
them to the inventory. About half were unacceptable, but it was the
only one that fell apart.


I wish more retailers were like you... seems like so much stuff on the
shelves is garbage.


My policy was not to stock anything I wouldn't want on my computer.
I gave the still working rejects to cheapskates & jerks who wanted
'something cheaper'. They usually came back to buy something better. ;-)


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"J. Clarke" wrote:

FWIW, the big problem with the Logitechs seems to be the microswitches.
They tend to die young with the result being unintended double-clicks.
If you read the Amazon reviews you'll find numerous accounts of this
problem, and it affects more than one model, from the high to the low
end of the range. It's not correctable by cleaning. It's bad enough
that you can buy kits of two third-party replacement microswitches off
of Amazon or ebay.


Or buy 50 tact switches for $3 on ebay. Be aware that there are
different heights for the actuator. bad switches in mice has been a
problem since they first went into use. Think about how many times a
day you push the left button, and then that the switches are usually
rated for a 100,000 operation useful life.


Worse, it's an intermittent. Mine's been behaving for the last week or
so. Before that it was doubling regularly on me.


My bggest complaint about Logitech mice is that the pads come off,
leaving a sticky mess to slide on a mousepad.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

The Daring Dufas wrote:

We recently finished installing cable, power, Cisco routers and internet
connections in several OfficeMax stores for their new in store computer
repair called "Ctrlcenter". We installed a completely separate
network from their corporate VPN so there is no chance of malware
spreading from the repair department. WiFi hackers would have had lots
of fun if corporate hadn't opted for separation of networks. ^_^


I run two networks at my house. One is all hardwired and requires
passwords. The other is mixed, to work on donated computers without
passwords. Wireless is only aavailible when I want it. It's turned off
the rest of the time, by unplugging it.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"Attila.Iskander" wrote:

And here I thought they came from the drug store
After all, my aunt was prescribed a serving of prunes every morning by
her doctor.


DUH! He owned the Pharmacy and the Grocery store! Some of those
doctors owned half the town.



--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

The Daring Dufas wrote:

Did you look like a Hippie back then, I had a Sears tire guy
discriminate against me back in my Hippie days telling me they didn't
have a tire that he had just told my father they had plenty of. ^_^


No, I kept my hair short, and was in my work clothes that I wore when
I repaired electronics in public schools so I was clean, and had shaved.


I had to deal with a bored woman who was fumbling with a handful of
Microfiche and she didn't seem to understand the machine.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 12:46:26 -0500, the renowned "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote:

FWIW, the big problem with the Logitechs seems to be the microswitches.
They tend to die young with the result being unintended double-clicks.
If you read the Amazon reviews you'll find numerous accounts of this
problem, and it affects more than one model, from the high to the low
end of the range. It's not correctable by cleaning. It's bad enough
that you can buy kits of two third-party replacement microswitches off
of Amazon or ebay.


Or buy 50 tact switches for $3 on ebay. Be aware that there are
different heights for the actuator. bad switches in mice has been a
problem since they first went into use. Think about how many times a
day you push the left button, and then that the switches are usually
rated for a 100,000 operation useful life.

Remmber really early mice actually had microswitches in there (with
1million operations mechanical life), not those sub-penny tact
switches?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On 1/2/2012 2:57 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 12:46:26 -0500, the renowned "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote:

FWIW, the big problem with the Logitechs seems to be the microswitches.
They tend to die young with the result being unintended double-clicks.
If you read the Amazon reviews you'll find numerous accounts of this
problem, and it affects more than one model, from the high to the low
end of the range. It's not correctable by cleaning. It's bad enough
that you can buy kits of two third-party replacement microswitches off
of Amazon or ebay.


Or buy 50 tact switches for $3 on ebay. Be aware that there are
different heights for the actuator. bad switches in mice has been a
problem since they first went into use. Think about how many times a
day you push the left button, and then that the switches are usually
rated for a 100,000 operation useful life.

Remmber really early mice actually had microswitches in there (with
1million operations mechanical life), not those sub-penny tact
switches?


Some of the business phones I work on have optical hook switches much
like the the optical interrupter in the mouse with a ball or track ball.
I don't remember if I ever saw optical switches for buttons on a mouse
but that would be a much longer lasting switch if the mechanical click
mechanism didn't wear out so fast. ^_^

TDD

Pick up a decent trackball and you wont go back

I hate 'em. My fingers won't take a trackball; very bad ergonomics.

I bought a trackball after major right shoulder surgery. I could not hold
my arm up to work a mouse, and a track just sat cupped in my left hand,
roller ball operated by the right. I like it because I can just slap it
when I want the cursor to move a long ways, it doesn't move much on my desk
or take up as much space as a pad, and I don't have to move my arm much, but
rather rest it on the desk. Whatever works for you.

Steve

On 2012-01-03, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Perhaps, but Linux is not ready for prime time. It never will be.

If by prime time, you mean Netflix streaming, you are correct. I must
use an old XP box for streaming Netflix, it requiring Silverlight.
Otherwise, I've been using a Linux box as my primary computer for 10
yrs. I wouldn't do online banking, transactions, purchasing, etc, on
a Windows box at gunpoint! Also, haven't bought software or had any
maleware or viruses in 10 yrs. Linux is waaay beyond prime time.
Windows is past its prime. But, that's OK. It's all about choice.
You choose Windows. Fine by me.

nb





--
vi --the root of evil

On 2012-01-03, notbob wrote:
On 2012-01-03, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Perhaps, but Linux is not ready for prime time. It never will be.

If by prime time, you mean Netflix streaming, you are correct. I must
use an old XP box for streaming Netflix, it requiring Silverlight.
Otherwise, I've been using a Linux box as my primary computer for 10
yrs. I wouldn't do online banking, transactions, purchasing, etc, on
a Windows box at gunpoint! Also, haven't bought software or had any
maleware or viruses in 10 yrs. Linux is waaay beyond prime time.
Windows is past its prime. But, that's OK. It's all about choice.
You choose Windows. Fine by me.

I use Linux only for my digital life, as well as making money online
(advertising supported websites and selling used industrial
equipment).

I have not used Windows in a long time and I do not miss much.

i

On 2012-01-02, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 2 Jan 2012 05:18:26 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


as you may notice with the ebay trackball offers..they always have 6-15
bids. There is a reason for that.

Yep -- very good trackballs. The only disadvantage to this
style is that it is very awkward to use left-handed, so I don't. I used
to swap the mouse to left-handed operation when I was getting close to
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome problems.

Not sure how old this is...but there are indeed lefthanded trackballs
out there. Logitech does make one as I recall

http://answers.google.com/answers/th...id/283534.html

Then there is this one...

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Inc-T.../dp/B002ZZ405O

O.K. That would work fairly well.

The first Logitech trackball which I had was sort of like a
half-cylinder with the ball on the left and three buttons (no scroll
wheel back then) over the hump for the fingers of the right hand. They
did have advice on how to orient it so you could use it left-handed, but
it did not work with my usual computer (it had a PS/2 connector, and the
Sun workstations had a totally different 5-pin Mini-DIN, and different
signals if you made an adaptor connector. :-)

And -- I'm not working full time on computers, so I don't have
the Carpal Tunnel problem any more.

These days, the Suns come with USB for keyboard and mouse, and
this works well for me in two ways:

1) The Logitech "Trackman" trackballs work on the Suns.

2) The Sun keyboards work well on the Mac Mini, so I don't have
to deal with caps-lock and control changing places, and other
keys migrating to where I don't expect them. (I spend a *lot*
more time on the Suns than on the Mac Mini. :-)

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2012-01-03, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Its hardware support is severely lacking, making it next to useless as a
personal system.

Nonsense. I haven't had a problem with hardware compatability for
years. Last time I bought a new Brother laser printer, it set up with
CUPS (linux) in about 30 secs, about 5X faster than getting it working
on a Windows box. Even my scanner is no problem. Some experts claim
Linux now has better hardware support than Windows 7. The myth that
linux has poor hardware support is just that. A long dead myth, at
that.

BTW, unlike my new netbook that came with XP and SP3, my linux
installations all work as intended, all the software fully functional
from the get go. No need to initiate an internet connection to The
Collective (microsoft.com) so they will bless my new computer and
remotely enable software I've already paid for, yet currently doesn't
function.

It's a geek's toy.

If by geek, you mean I don't mind actually shifting my brain into gear
and learning something new, yep! ....I'm a geek. But, that's jes my
experience. Feel free to believe any fairy tales you like.

nb, geek

--
vi --the root of evil

On 1/2/2012 9:07 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2012-01-03, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Its hardware support is severely lacking, making it next to useless as a
personal system.

Nonsense. I haven't had a problem with hardware compatability for
years. Last time I bought a new Brother laser printer, it set up with
CUPS (linux) in about 30 secs, about 5X faster than getting it working
on a Windows box. Even my scanner is no problem. Some experts claim
Linux now has better hardware support than Windows 7. The myth that
linux has poor hardware support is just that. A long dead myth, at
that.

BTW, unlike my new netbook that came with XP and SP3, my linux
installations all work as intended, all the software fully functional
from the get go. No need to initiate an internet connection to The
Collective (microsoft.com) so they will bless my new computer and
remotely enable software I've already paid for, yet currently doesn't
function.

It's a geek's toy.

If by geek, you mean I don't mind actually shifting my brain into gear
and learning something new, yep! ....I'm a geek. But, that's jes my
experience. Feel free to believe any fairy tales you like.

nb, geek



those who believe that malware only attacks windows are delusional,
variations of linux/unix are commonly attacked, after all that is where
the web servers and databases live.

On 12/28/2011 5:05 AM, Cliff Hartle wrote:

The tools are sold in Sears, Kmart, and Orchard Supply Hardware stores (all
three owned by Sears Holdings), as well as Fastenal,[2] US military Army and
Air Force Exchange Service stores, andAce Hardware.[3][4]

I saw some Craftsman tools at Costco last month.

On 12/28/2011 8:17 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/28/2011 7:05 AM, bob haller wrote:

sears sold off craftsman tools and most other assets years ago...

Untrue. The holding company that owns Sears and Kmart also owns the
Craftsman trademark.

What actually is happening is that Sears is licensing some of their
brands, including Craftsman, Die-Hard, and Kenmore. This actually hurts
Sears stores because customers that actually believe in those brands can
now buy them at other stores.

thats why craftsman tools are available in all sorts of stores today.

Also untrue.

No, that actually is true.

"The company is allowing other retailers to sell its DieHard, Craftsman
and Kenmore products. Sears has also cut deals with such retailers as
Costco Wholesale Corp. and Ace Hardware to sell Craftsman tools in their
stores."

http://news.businessweek.com/article.asp?documentKey=1376-LWV4Y40YHQ0X01-57SSRQKTS02BIAE7RSD5V5K2IB

I doubt if Sears can survive. For appliances they're being decimated by
stores like Home Depot which has comparable pricing on appliances, but
much lower prices on extended warranties which people seem to be buying
on appliances with micro-controllers (which is ironic because
micro-controllers were supposed to be more reliable than mechanical
controllers on washing machines, dryers, dishwashers, ranges, and
refrigerators). Their tools were never commercial quality, they sold
them based on the lifetime warranty on hand tools. Sears used to sell a
lot of TVs, but now Costco is the place to buy electronics with their
free extended warranty and low prices.

On 12/28/2011 9:10 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 12/27/2011 10:58 PM, oldyork90 wrote:
I'm reading bad news about Sears/KMart. If Sears goes tits up, I hope
they hand off the Craftsman line. I always had good luck with their
hand tools.

Don't worry, some Chinese holding company will buy them out. The new
stores will be Shears and Claymart. ^_^

Or, equivalently, HF will expand.....

I could be wrong, but I doubt it. The profit taking that resulted in
their lower selection and greater number of listed items out of stock
doesn't leave them in much of a position to pick up market share.
Wal-Mart will likely continue to expand though.

HF is expanding like crazy.

On 1/2/2012 11:07 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2012-01-03, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Its hardware support is severely lacking, making it next to useless as a
personal system.

Nonsense. I haven't had a problem with hardware compatability for
years. Last time I bought a new Brother laser printer, it set up with
CUPS (linux) in about 30 secs, about 5X faster than getting it working
on a Windows box. Even my scanner is no problem. Some experts claim
Linux now has better hardware support than Windows 7. The myth that
linux has poor hardware support is just that. A long dead myth, at
that.

BTW, unlike my new netbook that came with XP and SP3, my linux
installations all work as intended, all the software fully functional
from the get go. No need to initiate an internet connection to The
Collective (microsoft.com) so they will bless my new computer and
remotely enable software I've already paid for, yet currently doesn't
function.

It's a geek's toy.

If by geek, you mean I don't mind actually shifting my brain into gear
and learning something new, yep! ....I'm a geek. But, that's jes my
experience. Feel free to believe any fairy tales you like.

nb, geek


You are an exception to rule when it comes to computer users. When I get
a call that a computer or POS "Point Of Sale", not the other
connotation, is not working at a well known women's clothing store, I
usually find something unplugged. In the good old days of The PC, you
had to be a geek to make anything work, especially Usenet but alas, the
dumb masses descended on computers with a vengeance and all we geeks can
do is cope and hope to survive without shooting ourselves or anyone
else in the head. o_O

TDD

On 2012-01-03, SMS wrote:

lot of TVs, but now Costco is the place to buy electronics with their
free extended warranty and low prices.

Actually, Costco has severely amended their warranty/return policy on
electronics like computers and tv's, as customers were gaming the
system to get free new models every few months.

nb

--
vi --the root of evil

On 2012-01-03, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I'm kinda fond of PC-BSD myself.

I use OpenBSD when I use unix. The BSDs are all good.

or not, most folks are using Microsoft products and I have to stay
up on what's going on with them and be familiar with them so I can
service their systems. I took a copy of Puppy Linux with me today when
I went to the young lady's home to fix her computer, I often use a live
Linux CD to test a system to make sure the hardware is OK before diving
into the addled software installed on the hard drive. ^_^

If ppl want to stick with Windows or Apple, fine by me. I'm no linux
evangelist. I jes think it the height of absurdity to use a computer
platform where a commercial entity, be it M$ or Apple, exerts more
control over the computer and its use than the owner. Even more
astonishing is ppl actually paying a corporation for the privilege of
being dictated to. "Here's my $$$. Now, tell me what I can or can't
do"

Un-freakin-believable!!

nb

--
vi --the root of evil

On 2012-01-03, The Daring Dufas wrote:

You are an exception to rule when it comes to computer users. When I get
a call that a computer or POS "Point Of Sale", not the other
connotation, is not working at a well known women's clothing store, I
usually find something unplugged. In the good old days of The PC, you
had to be a geek to make anything work, especially Usenet but alas, the
dumb masses descended on computers with a vengeance and all we geeks can
do is cope and hope to survive without shooting ourselves or anyone
else in the head. o_O

Sad, but true.

It really came home to me when I asked a buncha geezers (like myself)
at a potluck if anyone would be interesting in learning linux. One
ol' codger immediately piped up, "I'll give up my Windows when they
pry it from my cold dead hands". After picking my jaw up off the
floor, it dawned on me the irrepressible freedom loving American is a
myth. We've become so lulled by corporate America and the creature
comforts it provides that we'll sacrifice any liberty to maintain the
illusion. Actually, it's waaaay beyond sad and has passed straight
into damn scary!

nb

--
vi --the root of evil

On Jan 3, 12:07*am, notbob wrote:

Nonsense. *I haven't had a problem with hardware compatability for
years. *Last time I bought a new Brother laser printer, it set up with
CUPS (linux) in about 30 secs, about 5X faster than getting it working
on a Windows box. *Even my scanner is no problem. *Some experts claim
Linux now has better hardware support than Windows 7. *The myth that
linux has poor hardware support is just that. *A long dead myth, at
that.


nb, geek


Well some thing can be a pain in Linux. I use a Dvorak keyboard and
have had problems with Ubuntu switching to Querty when I change
programs. And if I do not use the computer for a while, it demands a
password before I can start using it again. And I also have a Brother
laser printer. But have not figured out how to print on both sides of
the paper in Linux. I have my computer set up for dual boot as there
are some programs such as Tax Cut that do not have a Linux version.


Dan

On 1/3/2012 9:22 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2012-01-03, The Daring wrote:

You are an exception to rule when it comes to computer users. When I get
a call that a computer or POS "Point Of Sale", not the other
connotation, is not working at a well known women's clothing store, I
usually find something unplugged. In the good old days of The PC, you
had to be a geek to make anything work, especially Usenet but alas, the
dumb masses descended on computers with a vengeance and all we geeks can
do is cope and hope to survive without shooting ourselves or anyone
else in the head. o_O

Sad, but true.

It really came home to me when I asked a buncha geezers (like myself)
at a potluck if anyone would be interesting in learning linux. One
ol' codger immediately piped up, "I'll give up my Windows when they
pry it from my cold dead hands". After picking my jaw up off the
floor, it dawned on me the irrepressible freedom loving American is a
myth. We've become so lulled by corporate America and the creature
comforts it provides that we'll sacrifice any liberty to maintain the
illusion. Actually, it's waaaay beyond sad and has passed straight
into damn scary!

nb

The human life expectancy being what it is seems merciful....I could not
stand another 15 years of "progress" )

I have photos of my grandson's 16th b'day party....allegedly had a lot
of fun....several kids can be seen standing alone with iPod/phone in
hand. It seemed really oddly "electronic age" until it occurred to me
that kids can "talk" all the time and not be close enough to have sex
) Other grandsons are tight-lipped about what-in-the-world there is
to text about all day long.....of course, if I texted the question, I'd
likely get an answer. Smart phone is nice to have when I'm cooking
dinner or in some damn waiting room....Angry Birds is fun, although the
real function of the smart phone is more complex than my old phone that
only made phone calls. Another labor-saving gadget to keep addys and
phone numbers in ( I'm hoping they invent a phone with a keyboard
large enough for adult-sized fingers!

On 1/3/2012 9:27 AM, wrote:
On Jan 3, 12:07 am, wrote:

Nonsense. I haven't had a problem with hardware compatability for
years. Last time I bought a new Brother laser printer, it set up with
CUPS (linux) in about 30 secs, about 5X faster than getting it working
on a Windows box. Even my scanner is no problem. Some experts claim
Linux now has better hardware support than Windows 7. The myth that
linux has poor hardware support is just that. A long dead myth, at
that.


nb, geek


Well some thing can be a pain in Linux. I use a Dvorak keyboard and
have had problems with Ubuntu switching to Querty when I change
programs. And if I do not use the computer for a while, it demands a
password before I can start using it again. And I also have a Brother
laser printer. But have not figured out how to print on both sides of
the paper in Linux. I have my computer set up for dual boot as there
are some programs such as Tax Cut that do not have a Linux version.


Dan

Yer makin' my brain hurt! I knew Win3 forward and backward because I
had to always fix a kernel thingy. Then along came 95, initially a
mess. 95/2 finally worked...could keep 20 windows open doing graphics
and not have a crash; my Micron with 95 could do anything and everything.

On 1/3/2012 8:22 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2012-01-03, The Daring wrote:

You are an exception to rule when it comes to computer users. When I get
a call that a computer or POS "Point Of Sale", not the other
connotation, is not working at a well known women's clothing store, I
usually find something unplugged. In the good old days of The PC, you
had to be a geek to make anything work, especially Usenet but alas, the
dumb masses descended on computers with a vengeance and all we geeks can
do is cope and hope to survive without shooting ourselves or anyone
else in the head. o_O

Sad, but true.

It really came home to me when I asked a buncha geezers (like myself)
at a potluck if anyone would be interesting in learning linux. One
ol' codger immediately piped up, "I'll give up my Windows when they
pry it from my cold dead hands". After picking my jaw up off the
floor, it dawned on me the irrepressible freedom loving American is a
myth. We've become so lulled by corporate America and the creature
comforts it provides that we'll sacrifice any liberty to maintain the
illusion. Actually, it's waaaay beyond sad and has passed straight
into damn scary!

nb


GEEKS UNITE! We must come together to save the world! Um,... oh yea,
we've already been doing it for some time. Nothing would function for
very long without us. o_O

TDD

On 1/3/2012 7:58 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2012-01-03, The Daring wrote:

I'm kinda fond of PC-BSD myself.

I use OpenBSD when I use unix. The BSDs are all good.

or not, most folks are using Microsoft products and I have to stay
up on what's going on with them and be familiar with them so I can
service their systems. I took a copy of Puppy Linux with me today when
I went to the young lady's home to fix her computer, I often use a live
Linux CD to test a system to make sure the hardware is OK before diving
into the addled software installed on the hard drive. ^_^

If ppl want to stick with Windows or Apple, fine by me. I'm no linux
evangelist. I jes think it the height of absurdity to use a computer
platform where a commercial entity, be it M$ or Apple, exerts more
control over the computer and its use than the owner. Even more
astonishing is ppl actually paying a corporation for the privilege of
being dictated to. "Here's my $$$. Now, tell me what I can or can't
do"

Un-freakin-believable!!

nb


Gunner uses Xandros but it's payware Linux and I suppose that's OK if
you want a software distribution where someone else has already pulled
all their hair out while making it all work. Darn it, Linux will wind
up in the hands of the dumb masses. o_O

TDD

One could not be a successful RightWinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by talk radio hosts
and mothers of RightWingers, a goodly number of RightWingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.

Shooter Ass



--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On 2012-01-03, The Daring Dufas wrote:

all their hair out while making it all work. Darn it, Linux will wind
up in the hands of the dumb masses. o_O

Pretty much already there. IPhones are BSD based and the rest are
Linux based (android) and everyone is happy as a clam to be bugged,
tracked, and charged for the privilege. The whole free open source
software (FOSS, free as in freedom) movement has been steamrollered by
corporate Amerika, which is more than happy to do so, specially when
aided by the millions of sheep who stand in line begging to be
fleeced. I mean, finally, FOSS provides the ppl the way to throw off
their shackles and the ppl respond with, "We prefer shackles!". I
find it hilarious.

Fortunately, groups like Anonymous are more than happy to take the
tools of oppression and turn them back on their creators. I'm no
hacker or code boy, but I do my part to not support those who would
relieve us of what few liberties we have remaining. I'm currently
trying to learn basic C programming, more out of respect for
Unix/Linux pioneers than any reason to use it. Hell! I don't really
even like computer programming, but the challenge keeps this ol'
geezer brain from fossilizing too quickly.

nb

--
vi --the root of evil