"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
On 12/29/2011 1:22 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 12/29/2011 7:01 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
"J. wrote in
in.local:


These days? I broke two of them removing the oil drain plug on my
1980 Honda, before I finally got an impact socket for it (note--I
wasn't using an impact driver, just a breaker bar).

amazing that you didn't tear the threads out of the pan instead of
breaking
a socket. SOMEbody shoulda been using a torque wrench on that plug.
Probably needed a new crush washer too,so it would not need to be
tightened
so tight to prevent leaking.



LMMFAO!! a torque wrench on a drain plug!! oooooooo kayy.

Yes, to prevent overtightening.

Let me guess: you use an impact wrench.

I just put mine in until it contacts the threads. Then another half turn to
be sure. Then 12-18 thuds with a 3/8" air impact set at 90 psi just to be
sure. And one last twist with a breaker bar to see if it will move any more
at all.

So far, so good.

Steve ;-)

If your wireless mouse is on a USB charge, is it wireless? What is the sound
of one hand mousing?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 12/29/2011 8:09 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

Logitech's latest wireless mice have a mini-USB charging connector. You
don't have to stop using them to charge them. I found docks to be a
nuisance.

That's another good sensible idea. ^_^

TDD

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11

Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

It was in 1999-2000 or a bit before.

First year Sears sold the mechanical digital mics as I recall, before
the electronic digitals hit the market and the prices came down.

Both were identical, both had the same wooden box, the exact same
documentaion. His had Craftsman on the finger guards. Period

Shrug..it became a pretty good joke between us before he retired. Ive
mentioned this before on this group. Check Google Groups for the
original thread.

I still use mine with great regularity when I dont want to take out the
Mity electronic digitals and get em nasty dirty.

Gunner



One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
On 12/29/2011 4:20 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 12/29/2011 9:16 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/29/2011 1:22 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 12/29/2011 7:01 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
"J. wrote in
in.local:


These days? I broke two of them removing the oil drain plug on my
1980 Honda, before I finally got an impact socket for it (note--I
wasn't using an impact driver, just a breaker bar).

amazing that you didn't tear the threads out of the pan instead of
breaking
a socket. SOMEbody shoulda been using a torque wrench on that plug.
Probably needed a new crush washer too,so it would not need to be
tightened
so tight to prevent leaking.



LMMFAO!! a torque wrench on a drain plug!! oooooooo kayy.

Yes, to prevent overtightening.

Let me guess: you use an impact wrench.


no, dougy, having done about 40,000 oil changes, i tend to know how to
tighten a drain plug. Thanks for playing!

You and about ten thousand other monkeys in service stations around the
nation, stevie. Every used car that I've ever bought has had the drain
plug vastly over-tightened by some ham-fisted clown like you who thinks
that he knows "how to tighten a drain plug."

My factory installed oil filter on my Ram 2500 was put on by a gorilla on
steroids. Finally got it off, and it isn't in a place where that's easy.
WTF is the deal? It's a plug. Absolutely no torque during operation.
Maybe a little vibration, but that's all.

Steve

On 29 Dec 2011 16:10:13 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2011-12-29, Doug Miller wrote:

What was your first clue?

That Sears has the slightest inkling of what a micrometer is?

nb

http://www.sears.com/search=digital%20micrometers

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On 29 Dec 2011 18:31:21 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2011-12-29, Doug Miller wrote:

In that case, perhaps you shouldn't make comments on subjects that -- by
your own admission -- you know nothing about.

I know junk when I use it. You gonna try and convince anyone here Craftsman has
improved in the last 40 yrs?

nb

Mity is junk?

http://www.sears.com/search=digital%20micrometers

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Raises bloody hand with bandage

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Bob_Villa" wrote in message
...

We did this all to ourselves...we accepted crap (most of us) and now
that's all we have...crap!

How many of us borrowed a pair of "lock-jaw" pliers (non-Peterson) and
have a blood blister from its use to show for it?

oldyork90 wrote:
I'm reading bad news about Sears/KMart. If Sears goes tits up, I hope
they hand off the Craftsman line. I always had good luck with their
hand tools.


Partial list of stores to be closed,
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/mone...sing-list.html

On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11

Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....

On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Steve B wrote:

WTF is the deal? It's a plug. Absolutely no torque during operation.
Maybe a little vibration, but that's all.

Like I said in my initial response to you: a torque wrench is used to
prevent overtightening. Tighten the drain plug a bit too much, ruin the
washer. Tighten it a lot too much, damage the threads in the pan.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 13:54:29 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:


Craftsman hand tools weren't junk 40 years ago, and they aren't junk now

My set is twenty one years old. Combined my other collection of tools
--- know where they are when the need happens.

Had the front end out of my truck for replacing the radial arm
bushings (10 years ago). Ran to Sears to buy a honkin' sized Craftsman
socket. I have on rare occasion beat on a couple wrenches.

The last set in my life time. Just DIY home tool work..

I lost count of how many Craftsman water hoses Sears has replaced no
questions asked, except name.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:33:16 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

Sears credit rating is going down it made the news today......

They should declare bankruptcy, and put k mart out of business
entirely.

sears might recover if it could stand alone

Why?

"...Equipped with cupholders, power steering and other fancy trappings
, a new line of premium riding lawn mowers from Sears Holdings Corp's
Craftsman division will debut next month at the Detroit auto show.

It's rare for a non-automobile company to use the show as a launch pad
for vehicles not sold at a car dealership, but Craftsman hopes the
early January debut can turn car buffs on to a new generation of
tractors that come with more advanced technology.

Read mo
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2011/12/28/craftsman-briging-luxury-tractor-to-detroit-auto-show/#ixzz1hyGKllh9

On 12/29/2011 2:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11

$56.69, not the $119 you lied earlier.



Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

No, it's marked down from $62.99. What the **** is wrong with you?
You're not just a liar - you're a blind liar.

On 12/29/2011 3:30 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I
picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html


http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11


Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....

They clearly are different.

Vic Smith wrote:

Same with plums.
Bought about 6 plums at a fruit store.
Most delicious plums I ever had.
So 2 days later I bought an entire case at the same place.
Different lot. They sucked big time and I tossed nearly all of them.


That will teach you not to eat an entire case of plums at once. ;-)


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:30:23 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11

Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....

Blink blink...Chinese tools...they dont have the same Label..no they
certainly dont.

And neither do Acra Mills or Brother Mills..but they come from the same
factory.

You just wake up?

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:14:19 -0800, Delvin Benet ýt wrote:

On 12/29/2011 3:30 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I
picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html


http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11


Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....

They clearly are different.

Sure they are. One is painted a different color, and they are marked
differently.

And?

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Vic Smith wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:08:33 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
? wrote:

?
?Stormin Mormon wrote:
??
?? Sorry you got a bad Crapsman. I've had plenty of bad tools from HF,
?? including some Pittsburgh flare wrenches that didn't turn flare fittings.
?? Too loose, they slipped. Your reversible, you maybe could have filed the
?? burr down? I also had a full pack of AA batteries (alkalines) from HF leak
?? in the box. My HF electric plug in impact wrench, the switch is flaky, it
?? loosens but doesn't tighten.
?
?
? I bought a plastic pack of those about two years ago, and have nine
?left. I use them in wireless mice that are on 16 hours a day.
?

What mice? I've been using Logitech wireless since they first came
out. Not anything fancy, just typical 3-button. Laser now.
Light is always on.
Always wish they had an on/off switch to save the batteries.
Using rechargeable, but it's a hassle changing batteries out pretty
often, maybe every 10 days or so.


I use a Logitech M215, and it has a power switch. I have another, a
Logitech V220 that also has a switch. It was made for a laptop. When
you store the reciver on the bottom it automatically turns off. You can
also turn it off by hand. I've been using the same HF Alkaline AA cells
in both mice. Neither is a LASER mouse.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On 12/29/2011 10:28 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2011-12-29, The Daring wrote:

I have a little Klein 4" plastic coated handle adjustable wrench that I
carry in my pocket.........

Klein is among the tool companies that once made very high quality
tools. I hope they still do, as I may have need to buy a set of heavy
duty diagonal cutters and I would choose Klein for this particular
tool.

nb


My first job out of college was working for an electrical
supply/electric motor rewind company and it was a Klein distributor.
I may still have some Klein tools from four decades ago, I'm not sure
because I've never broken one. ^_^

TDD

Gunner Asch wrote:

I have one..batteries in it are toast. One of these days Ill pop it open
and replace the batteries. The mouse sits in a cradle which is plugged
into a USB port..its both the receiver and charger.

Ill dig it out and post the model number if you want.


I have a half dozen that had the Ni-Cads leak and damage the mice.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On 12/29/2011 5:32 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Steve B wrote:

WTF is the deal? It's a plug. Absolutely no torque during operation.
Maybe a little vibration, but that's all.

Like I said in my initial response to you: a torque wrench is used to
prevent overtightening. Tighten the drain plug a bit too much, ruin the
washer. Tighten it a lot too much, damage the threads in the pan.

GEEZ! A torque wrench is so easy to use so what's the problem? The
torque on a drain is probably 10-15 ft lbs and I can strip one out
without trying too hard. The copper/brass crush washer or polymer
washer doesn't need a lot of pressure on it to properly seal. o_O

TDD

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 14:56:01 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:

LMMFAO!! a torque wrench on a drain plug!! oooooooo kayy.

Yes, to prevent overtightening.

Let me guess: you use an impact wrench.

I just put mine in until it contacts the threads. Then another half turn to
be sure. Then 12-18 thuds with a 3/8" air impact set at 90 psi just to be
sure. And one last twist with a breaker bar to see if it will move any more
at all.

So far, so good.

....now snug it up tight

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:09:35 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


Logitech's latest wireless mice have a mini-USB charging connector. You
don't have to stop using them to charge them. I found docks to be a
nuisance.

One of my kids gave me one with a docking port.
Plenty of desk space, so the dock didn't bother me.
But I didn't like the shape of the mouse, so I gave it back.
Also tried one of those similar to what Nate mentioned.
Didn't like the shape.
Always used the common "teardrop" shaped
Think I'm just going to have to adjust to a new shape to go to a dock
or one with an off/on switch.
Or just keep changing batteries.
Don't know why my batteries last only about 10 days.
Doesn't matter what brand.
I do a lot of gaming so the mouse is always moving then.
Don't know if a moving mouse consumes more juice than an idle one.

--Vic

On 2011-12-29, Oren wrote:

I lost count of how many Craftsman water hoses Sears has replaced no
questions asked, except name.

LOL....

I can't convey jes how laughable that statement is.

nb

--
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

On 12/29/2011 08:39 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:09:35 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


Logitech's latest wireless mice have a mini-USB charging connector. You
don't have to stop using them to charge them. I found docks to be a
nuisance.

One of my kids gave me one with a docking port.
Plenty of desk space, so the dock didn't bother me.
But I didn't like the shape of the mouse, so I gave it back.
Also tried one of those similar to what Nate mentioned.
Didn't like the shape.
Always used the common "teardrop" shaped
Think I'm just going to have to adjust to a new shape to go to a dock
or one with an off/on switch.
Or just keep changing batteries.
Don't know why my batteries last only about 10 days.
Doesn't matter what brand.
I do a lot of gaming so the mouse is always moving then.
Don't know if a moving mouse consumes more juice than an idle one.

--Vic

Probably. they tend to have a "sleep" mode.

My problem is I have big hands, like a big mouse, but don't like cords.
When all my old mice started dying I researched
obsessive-compulsively. I bought a Cyborg RAT7 which is actually corded
but had some other features that I liked, and the Performance Mouse MX.
The RAT7 was my favorite and had a real light, "limp" cord so it
wasn't too offensive. It died after two months of use I'm still
using the PMMX at home but miss the "pinky shelf" of the RAT. Need to
find a new mouse to take to work; right now I'm using a Dell OEM mouse
that I stole from the IT guy and it's ****ing me off with how cheap and
nasty it is (especially compared to my Filco keyboard... hey, I figure
if I'm going to spend at least half and often all of my working day in
front of a computer, I might as well not be ****ed off by my input devices.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 12/29/2011 5:32 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Steve B wrote:

WTF is the deal? It's a plug. Absolutely no torque during operation.
Maybe a little vibration, but that's all.

Like I said in my initial response to you: a torque wrench is used to
prevent overtightening. Tighten the drain plug a bit too much, ruin the
washer. Tighten it a lot too much, damage the threads in the pan.

GEEZ! A torque wrench is so easy to use so what's the problem? The torque
on a drain is probably 10-15 ft lbs and I can strip one out
without trying too hard. The copper/brass crush washer or polymer
washer doesn't need a lot of pressure on it to properly seal. o_O

TDD

33 lbf-ft (do not overtighten). The Honda washer is aluminum.

Vic Smith wrote:

Don't know if a moving mouse consumes more juice than an idle one.


The transmitter is turned on when the mouse is in use. The rest of
the time, it's just the PIC, or some other low power processor that's
powered.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On 12/29/2011 4:59 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:30:23 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11

Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....

Blink blink...Chinese tools...they dont have the same Label..no they
certainly dont.

They clearly are materially different.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 14:45:28 -0500, the renowned Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 4:20 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 12/29/2011 9:16 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/29/2011 1:22 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 12/29/2011 7:01 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
"J. wrote in
in.local:


These days? I broke two of them removing the oil drain plug on my
1980 Honda, before I finally got an impact socket for it (note--I
wasn't using an impact driver, just a breaker bar).

amazing that you didn't tear the threads out of the pan instead of
breaking
a socket. SOMEbody shoulda been using a torque wrench on that plug.
Probably needed a new crush washer too,so it would not need to be
tightened
so tight to prevent leaking.



LMMFAO!! a torque wrench on a drain plug!! oooooooo kayy.

Yes, to prevent overtightening.

Let me guess: you use an impact wrench.


no, dougy, having done about 40,000 oil changes, i tend to know how to
tighten a drain plug. Thanks for playing!

You and about ten thousand other monkeys in service stations around the
nation, stevie. Every used car that I've ever bought has had the drain
plug vastly over-tightened by some ham-fisted clown like you who thinks
that he knows "how to tighten a drain plug."

Spec on my car is 33 N-m +/- 3 N-m (about 24 ft-lbs +/-10%). And
always replace the metal washer.

I'm sure the quick lube places do neither, and most of the time they
overtighten.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On 12/29/2011 5:00 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:14:19 -0800, Delvin ýt wrote:

On 12/29/2011 3:30 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I
picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html


http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11


Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....

They clearly are different.

Sure they are. One is painted a different color, and they are marked
differently.

They clearly are different manufacturers.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:32:39 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Steve B wrote:

WTF is the deal? It's a plug. Absolutely no torque during operation.
Maybe a little vibration, but that's all.

Like I said in my initial response to you: a torque wrench is used to
prevent overtightening. Tighten the drain plug a bit too much, ruin the
washer. Tighten it a lot too much, damage the threads in the pan.

Honda drain plugs have always been a featured defect.
The threads distort over time even when using specified torque.
That's just from reading about it.
Never did a Honda drain plug so I don't know if I would use a torque
wrench on it or not. Have to "feel" it first.
If it's best to use a torque wrench, I'd use one.
I've done countless drain plugs on GM, Ford and VW.
Always the same, snug finger tight, snug with the wrench until it
bottoms, then push a little.
A little is about 10-20 ft-lbs. Close enough.
How do I know? Because I never strip threads and it never leaks.
If it leaks it needs a new washer.
Only bought one new washer in my lifetime that I recall.
I've heard you can cut a piece from a beer can and use that for a
washer, but I never did it.
In the Navy I cut many gaskets from sheet material for low pressure
stuff.
But oil plug gaskets are so cheap it's not worth it unless you're in a
pinch.
Never use a wrench on a car oil filter either.
Lube the rubber washer, bottom it, then give it an 1/8 to quarter
turn.
By "bottom it" I mean both surfaces are fully in contact.
But I've got no problem using a torque wrench for some things.
Heads, manifolds, etc.
A lot of the new manifold plenums are plastic and crack if over
tightened.
My son broke 2 before he wised up.
Seems breaking just one should have sufficed, and that made me worry
about him.
Most of knowing what torque you're applying comes from the experience
of using different length wrenches on various fasteners.
And stripping fasteners before you learn.
I stripped plenty early on.

--Vic

On 12/29/2011 7:59 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message
...
On 12/29/2011 5:32 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Steve B wrote:

WTF is the deal? It's a plug. Absolutely no torque during operation.
Maybe a little vibration, but that's all.

Like I said in my initial response to you: a torque wrench is used to
prevent overtightening. Tighten the drain plug a bit too much, ruin the
washer. Tighten it a lot too much, damage the threads in the pan.

GEEZ! A torque wrench is so easy to use so what's the problem? The torque
on a drain is probably 10-15 ft lbs and I can strip one out
without trying too hard. The copper/brass crush washer or polymer
washer doesn't need a lot of pressure on it to properly seal. o_O

TDD

33 lbf-ft (do not overtighten). The Honda washer is aluminum.


I was making a SWAG based on my experience with old American iron
engines. ^_^

TDD

On 12/29/2011 8:44 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:32:39 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Steve B wrote:

WTF is the deal? It's a plug. Absolutely no torque during operation.
Maybe a little vibration, but that's all.

Like I said in my initial response to you: a torque wrench is used to
prevent overtightening. Tighten the drain plug a bit too much, ruin the
washer. Tighten it a lot too much, damage the threads in the pan.

Honda drain plugs have always been a featured defect.
The threads distort over time even when using specified torque.
That's just from reading about it.
Never did a Honda drain plug so I don't know if I would use a torque
wrench on it or not. Have to "feel" it first.
If it's best to use a torque wrench, I'd use one.
I've done countless drain plugs on GM, Ford and VW.
Always the same, snug finger tight, snug with the wrench until it
bottoms, then push a little.
A little is about 10-20 ft-lbs. Close enough.
How do I know? Because I never strip threads and it never leaks.
If it leaks it needs a new washer.
Only bought one new washer in my lifetime that I recall.
I've heard you can cut a piece from a beer can and use that for a
washer, but I never did it.
In the Navy I cut many gaskets from sheet material for low pressure
stuff.
But oil plug gaskets are so cheap it's not worth it unless you're in a
pinch.
Never use a wrench on a car oil filter either.
Lube the rubber washer, bottom it, then give it an 1/8 to quarter
turn.
By "bottom it" I mean both surfaces are fully in contact.
But I've got no problem using a torque wrench for some things.
Heads, manifolds, etc.
A lot of the new manifold plenums are plastic and crack if over
tightened.
My son broke 2 before he wised up.
Seems breaking just one should have sufficed, and that made me worry
about him.
Most of knowing what torque you're applying comes from the experience
of using different length wrenches on various fasteners.
And stripping fasteners before you learn.
I stripped plenty early on.

--Vic


When someone asks me for a job, I ask if they have experience, when they
say they do, I ask how much stuff have you broken or burned up.
If they say none, I know they're lying and have no experience. I tell
them I need someone who's already burned up thousands of dollars worth
of equipment some place else and learned from their mistakes. ^_^

TDD

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 19:54:14 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Vic Smith wrote:

Same with plums.
Bought about 6 plums at a fruit store.
Most delicious plums I ever had.
So 2 days later I bought an entire case at the same place.
Different lot. They sucked big time and I tossed nearly all of them.


That will teach you not to eat an entire case of plums at once. ;-)

Hey. I engaged a conversation.

The guy believed in prune trees ....

Prune come from ...

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:45:56 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 13:54:29 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:


Craftsman hand tools weren't junk 40 years ago, and they aren't junk now

My set is twenty one years old. Combined my other collection of tools
--- know where they are when the need happens.

Had the front end out of my truck for replacing the radial arm
bushings (10 years ago). Ran to Sears to buy a honkin' sized Craftsman
socket. I have on rare occasion beat on a couple wrenches.

The last set in my life time. Just DIY home tool work..

I lost count of how many Craftsman water hoses Sears has replaced no
questions asked, except name.

I bought a fairly big Craftsman set a couple years ago.
1/4, 3/8, 1/2 ratchets, metric, inch, 6-point, 12-point sockets,
combo wrenches up to 7/8 I think. In a plastic drawered toolbox.
Basically let my son have all my tools he took when he started
wrenching. I wasn't hardly using them.
Then I started needing them sometimes, so I bought another set.
Got them on sale for $99. That's the only way to buy at Sears.
Seem pretty much the same as my old ones from about 1972.
Socket walls seem thinner, but might be my imagination.
Never had a Craftsman socket, wrench or screwdriver break.

Just talked to my son, who does truck suspensions.
He "abuses" his tools like everybody in his shop does.
He broke my Craftsman 1/2 drive ratchet with an 8' persuader.
Sears replaced it.
He snapped my 7/8 combo wrench by jumping on it.
Sears replaced it.
His favorite small wrenches are Craftsman and a set of long handle
Pittsburgh from Harbor freight he's had for 6 years.
Says Mac wrenches bend, Craftsman snap.
Says Snap-on flank drive wrenches, which are all they offer now,
round nuts like there's no tomorrow.
Only Snap-on he recommends and has is an air-hammer, the best.
Same with a Matco air wrench, the best.
It's an IR up-priced by Matco.
He's got his own prejudices, so I don't take what he says as gospel.
But he makes senses with a lot of what he says.
There's a Harbor Freight just down the street from him.
If he breaks a Snap-on, Mac or Matco tool, he has to wait until they
make their stop, then another week if they don't have the tool on the
truck.
Harbor freight is 5 minutes away. They replace just like Sears.
One Harbor Freight tool he broke, welded it back together with added
length to use a while, then took it back for a replacement.
They didn't blink.
He said he heard if you go to Sears with your shop clothes on they'll
deny a replacement, saying the tool was abuse.
Just something he heard.
Some of his stories about the truck visiting tool vendors are pretty
funny. Seems those guys have some really bad days.

--Vic

looks like sears is headed for bankruptcy......

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/12/...6pLid%3D123731

"Michael A. Terrell" writes:


I have one..batteries in it are toast. One of these days Ill pop it open
and replace the batteries. The mouse sits in a cradle which is plugged
into a USB port..its both the receiver and charger.

Ill dig it out and post the model number if you want.


I have a half dozen that had the Ni-Cads leak and damage the mice.

My mouse has a tail; and no batteries. It never leaks, and I can
always find in under the junque on my desk...just start at the
USB port and...

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

On 12/29/2011 11:45 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/29/2011 4:20 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 12/29/2011 9:16 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/29/2011 1:22 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 12/29/2011 7:01 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
"J. wrote in
in.local:


These days? I broke two of them removing the oil drain plug on my
1980 Honda, before I finally got an impact socket for it (note--I
wasn't using an impact driver, just a breaker bar).

amazing that you didn't tear the threads out of the pan instead of
breaking
a socket. SOMEbody shoulda been using a torque wrench on that plug.
Probably needed a new crush washer too,so it would not need to be
tightened
so tight to prevent leaking.



LMMFAO!! a torque wrench on a drain plug!! oooooooo kayy.

Yes, to prevent overtightening.

Let me guess: you use an impact wrench.


no, dougy, having done about 40,000 oil changes, i tend to know how to
tighten a drain plug. Thanks for playing!

You and about ten thousand other monkeys in service stations around the
nation, stevie. Every used car that I've ever bought has had the drain
plug vastly over-tightened by some ham-fisted clown like you who thinks
that he knows "how to tighten a drain plug."

nope. you're wrong there. And i never had any complaints. I did have
to chisel off a few chevy oil filters that OTHER people had put on with
a wrench. G.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:11:06 -0800, Delvin Benet ýt wrote:

On 12/29/2011 4:59 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:30:23 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11

Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....

Blink blink...Chinese tools...they dont have the same Label..no they
certainly dont.

They clearly are materially different.

Prove it.

Ill be waiting

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:21:01 -0800, Delvin Benet ýt wrote:

On 12/29/2011 5:00 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:14:19 -0800, Delvin ýt wrote:

On 12/29/2011 3:30 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I
picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html


http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11


Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....

They clearly are different.

Sure they are. One is painted a different color, and they are marked
differently.

They clearly are different manufacturers.

Prove it

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch