On Dec 28, 11:55*am, "Pete C." wrote:

snip

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing. I have seen Snap-On tools break under comparable
abuse, so I'm not sure there is any real advantage there.

The SnapOn Warranty...
True story: in many years turning wrenches, just like other pros I
would always shop the tool trucks that stopped by. This gives one an
eclectic collection of brands and an appreciation of warranty
policies.
When I savaged a Philips screw driver one day trying to remove a rusty
brake disc, I tossed it on the toolbox side tray where our SnapOn rep
noticed it a few days later and volunteered to replace the blade.
Nice. Fast forward, and the screwdriver gets in trouble somehow (don't
remember). Same scenario, SnapOn rep gives me a lot of friendly grief
about tool care and then departs for the truck, coming back in a few
minutes with a new handle. Tried to pay the guy (after all its a
complete new tool now) and he simply says, "We warranty the whole
tool." FWIW, the tool is still functional and useful.

Joe

On 12/28/2011 11:11 AM, Steve B wrote:
wrote in message
...
I'm reading bad news about Sears/KMart. If Sears goes tits up, I hope
they hand off the Craftsman line. I always had good luck with their
hand tools.

Ace currently sells Craftsman.

As mentioned upthread, the CEO of the company that acquired Kmart,
then got Sears in a hostile takeover and created Sears Holdings from
merging the two chains created another subsidiary company and put the
Kenmore, Craftsman, and Diehard brands into that company. In other
words, those brands aren't owned by Sears anymore, so if/when Sears
goes tits up, those assets won't end up on the auction block. Plus, it
allows him to cut deals with other retailers to carry those brands in
their stores, thus generating more income for his company.

This guy isn't a retailer, he's a financier. He's been putting the
income from the chains into hedge fund investments instead of plowing
it back into the stores. That's why the stores look old and rundown.
He's just gradually stripping them of their assets.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:25:45 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

You know, editors and people who can type correctly are rare, to find.

A sentence was missing a comma
The Usenet, dissolved into drama
The OP wrote he dint gib no f-ck
It was just his bad luck
The net nanny it was his momma!

Before the sad typist was back in the saddle
His Mama did give him a dose of the paddle
He turned his back
She gave him a whack
And now, he's back to typing his prattle
(C) 2011, Stormin Mormon

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
Great poetry. I like it. Fits here just raht.

Pete C. wrote:
Frank wrote:
On 12/28/2011 3:05 AM, Existential Angst wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message
...
On 12/27/2011 10:58 PM, oldyork90 wrote:
I'm reading bad news about Sears/KMart. If Sears goes tits up, I hope
they hand off the Craftsman line. I always had good luck with their
hand tools.
Don't worry, some Chinese holding company will buy them out. The new
stores will be Shears and Claymart. ^_^
Or, equivalently, HF will expand.....
From what I read lately, HF tools are probably just as good.

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing. I have seen Snap-On tools break under comparable
abuse, so I'm not sure there is any real advantage there.

The real difference with Snap-On is that they are generally made of
stronger and better finished steel. They usually thinner walled steel so
they fit in tighter spots and the broached heads usually fit better.
Plus that big truck replaces tools on site instead of you needing to travel.

--
Steve W.

"Pete C." wrote in message
.com...

Frank wrote:

On 12/28/2011 3:05 AM, Existential Angst wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message
...
On 12/27/2011 10:58 PM, oldyork90 wrote:
I'm reading bad news about Sears/KMart. If Sears goes tits up, I
hope
they hand off the Craftsman line. I always had good luck with their
hand tools.

Don't worry, some Chinese holding company will buy them out. The new
stores will be Shears and Claymart. ^_^

Or, equivalently, HF will expand.....

From what I read lately, HF tools are probably just as good.

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing. I have seen Snap-On tools break under comparable
abuse, so I'm not sure there is any real advantage there.

Craftsman sockets and especially especially the deep ones are quite easily
broken given even rather light usage these days...

I have a coffee can about 1/2 full of them because it really doesn't make
much sense to get a replacement that in all likelyhood is just going to
crack and break like it's predecessor, and this has been a problem ever
since Danaher took over and then promptly offshored much the line....

--in retrospect, this was a very stupid move for Sears' part.....Danaher
already owned several quite successful competing lines (arguably, Danaher
did and *still does* own *most* of the viable competition) and so any
decline in Craftsman tool sales / quality ultimately means increased volume
for Danaher's wholly owned lineup.

On 12/28/2011 12:55 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing.

Then you've gotten damn lucky with the HF tools. IME, they're garbage.

I had to return this set of snap ring pliers
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...s-set-610.html
because the points on the jaws bent, the first time I used them, to the
point that a snap ring wouldn't stay on them.

These punches
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...set-93111.html
mushroomed and bent on first use under gentle tapping.

and so on. Crap like that just doesn't happen with Craftsman tools.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:18:54 -0800 (PST), Joe wrote:

On Dec 28, 11:55*am, "Pete C." wrote:

snip

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing. I have seen Snap-On tools break under comparable
abuse, so I'm not sure there is any real advantage there.

The SnapOn Warranty...
True story: in many years turning wrenches, just like other pros I
would always shop the tool trucks that stopped by. This gives one an
eclectic collection of brands and an appreciation of warranty
policies.
When I savaged a Philips screw driver one day trying to remove a rusty
brake disc, I tossed it on the toolbox side tray where our SnapOn rep
noticed it a few days later and volunteered to replace the blade.
Nice. Fast forward, and the screwdriver gets in trouble somehow (don't
remember). Same scenario, SnapOn rep gives me a lot of friendly grief
about tool care and then departs for the truck, coming back in a few
minutes with a new handle. Tried to pay the guy (after all its a
complete new tool now) and he simply says, "We warranty the whole
tool." FWIW, the tool is still functional and useful.

Joe
I still have my S and K socket set that I bought in 1960. It comes in
handy now and again. 1960 was the last year I worked in the ford
garage in VA. The same place in still going with the same owner, boss
and my younger brother is still working there. He is just 5 years
younger than me.
Isn't amazing how fast the years pass!!!

On Dec 28, 1:19*pm, Hell Toupee wrote:
On 12/28/2011 11:11 AM, Steve B wrote:

*wrote in message
....
I'm reading bad news about Sears/KMart. *If Sears goes tits up, I hope
they hand off the Craftsman line. *I always had good luck with their
hand tools.

Ace currently sells Craftsman.

As mentioned upthread, the CEO of the company that acquired Kmart,
then got Sears in a hostile takeover and created Sears Holdings from
merging the two chains created another subsidiary company and put the
Kenmore, Craftsman, and Diehard brands into that company. In other
words, those brands aren't owned by Sears anymore, so if/when Sears
goes tits up, those assets won't end up on the auction block. Plus, it
allows him to cut deals with other retailers to carry those brands in
their stores, thus generating more income for his company.

This guy isn't a retailer, he's a financier. He's been putting the
income from the chains into hedge fund investments instead of plowing
it back into the stores. That's why the stores look old and rundown.
He's just gradually stripping them of their assets.

yeah thats it sears is a licensee of the craftsman brand. some
craftsman tool packages have said that.

theres talk of craftsman and kenmore being sold at home depot soon.
which creates the question, if you can buy theses brands elsewhere why
go to sears at all? having craftsman tools at ace hardware likely hurt
sears stores sales

this was asked by a online article over a year ago.

eddie lampert who put the sears k mart company together had planned on
selling off sears real estate. but then the real estate market
collapsed

our local kmart is a dump and i quit going there when they had zero
cashier check outs available and tried to force me to use self check
out/

i ranted and walked out.......

k mart has checkout glitches all the time....I prefer to drive futher
and shop at target, unfortunately the nearest wallmart is over a half
hours drive.

i try to buy all my hardware stuff from vaters, the last remaining
store of what was 15.....

they order stuff i need and their employees are hardware people

On 12/28/11 12:41 pm, Doug Miller wrote:

I'm reading bad news about Sears/KMart. If Sears goes tits up, I hope
they hand off the Craftsman line. I always had good luck with their
hand tools.

Ace currently sells Craftsman.

So does Menards.

Can't say I've noticed Craftsman stuff at Meanrds, but Meijer sells
Diehard batteries and chargers.

Perce

On 12/28/2011 10:27 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/28/2011 12:55 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing.

Then you've gotten damn lucky with the HF tools. IME, they're garbage.

I went into a HF once. It was next door to a skateboard shop my son
wanted to check out. I had long heard people rave about HF, so I went
in to see. I was not impressed. Most of the merchandise seemed like
cheap Asian junk, probably bought at customs auctions (same way Trader
Joe's used to buy a lot of its stuff in the early days, before they
began doing a lot of private label deals.) This was a good few years
ago, so maybe they've improved their merchandise lines since then.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 05:34:55 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:


I have one a Kmart a couple miles from my house. It's about 15
mins to Walmart, so I'll go to Kmart once in a while for
convenience if I need a particular item right away. The Kmart is
much smaller and older than the Walmarts.

Last year just before Xmas I was in there and the cash registers
were running extremely slow, with people backed up. Just as
I made it to pay, they decided to reboot the whole system. At
that point, they should have just told everyone that it's going to
take the better part of an hour, because that's how long it takes
to reboot the whole system. As part of the reboot, they have ot
be brought back up one register at a time. The thing was
a very old IBM system, guessing it's at least 25 years old.
From listening to the cashiers, the system being slow or
crapping out isn't uncommon.

I waited about 30 mins before I finally went up to the manager
and asked if I could just leave the items and come back later.
They gave me a bag and I put my name on it. Soon almost
everyone else was doing the same thing.

I saw the same thing happen again a couple months later.
And I only go there maybe once every couple months.
That article says that Wall Street analysts say Kmart hasn't
invested in their stores to keep them current. Seems spot
on to me. It's interesting how a company like Kmart can
sit around for decades and let a competitor like Walmart
emerge and sink them. Older store, less choices, longer
lines, cash registers that don't work, what do they expect?

Not at all the same, but I had an "odd" incident in a Walmart
in Florida maybe 3 years ago.
Some town near the west coast by the Crystal river.
Went to the sports department to get a couple fishing licenses and the
guy told me he had to boot the computer and it would take at least
half an hour to get up and on-line.
I had people waiting in the car so I said "no thanks."
Looked like the mid-tower he back there was old as the hills.
Maybe an IBM PS1 with a 486 CPU like I had in 1993.
Called the state game department on the cell and got my license
confirmation number using a CC. Cost a couple bucks more.
Surprised me because Walmart runs a slick operation.
This year I picked up a cheap Shakespeare spinning rod for 15 bucks at
a Walmart in Punta Gorda. About the third cast with a 3 ounce bottom
rig it snapped about 6 inches from the tip.
It wasn't a smooth cast, but the rod was defective.
Never saw anything like that.
Some how our schedule didn't get us back to Walmart so I tossed the
rod in the trash.
Shakespeare and many other former "American" brands are now made in
China. That's why the rod was 15 bucks, and it showed.
I'll stay with Ugly Stiks from now on.
Still Shakespeare, but never had one break on me unless I slammed the
trunk lid on it.

--Vic

On 28 Dec 2011 13:57:07 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2011-12-28, oldyork90 wrote:

they hand off the Craftsman line. I always had good luck with their
hand tools.

Luck is exactly what you've had. Lucky they didn't break on you when
you needed them the most. I quit buying Craftsman tools 40 yrs when I
became a professional mechanic and the closest Sears was 90 miles
away. They're junk.


Bull****. I used them for years as a professional mechanic.
My son is professional mechanic and uses them.
And he uses Mac, Snap-on and Harbor Freight tools too.
A wrench is a wrench, a chisel a chisel.
If it fits it fits. If it cuts it cuts.
If the forging and heat treating is right the only other decision is
price.
Snap-on and Mac vendors are just tolerated by most mechanics become
they come to you, and they have some "unique" tools.
Otherwise brand name is what I already said. Bull****.

--Vic

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 08:47:11 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:

I have one a Kmart a couple miles from my house. It's about 15
mins to Walmart, so I'll go to Kmart once in a while for
convenience if I need a particular item right away. The Kmart is
much smaller and older than the Walmarts.


I saw the same thing happen again a couple months later.
And I only go there maybe once every couple months.
That article says that Wall Street analysts say Kmart hasn't
invested in their stores to keep them current. Seems spot
on to me. It's interesting how a company like Kmart can
sit around for decades and let a competitor like Walmart
emerge and sink them. Older store, less choices, longer
lines, cash registers that don't work, what do they expect?

K-Mart did not allow Salvation Army kettle volunteers outside their stores.
Walmart not only allowed Salvation Army solicitations, but tasked their
employees to ring the bell if not enough SA folks were available.

People notice things like that.


Yeah, I always notice them - if they're there.
If they ain't there, I don't notice them.

--Vic

On Dec 28, 12:55*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Frank wrote:

On 12/28/2011 3:05 AM, Existential Angst wrote:
"The Daring *wrote in message
...
On 12/27/2011 10:58 PM, oldyork90 wrote:
I'm reading bad news about Sears/KMart. *If Sears goes tits up, I hope
they hand off the Craftsman line. *I always had good luck with their
hand tools.

Don't worry, some Chinese holding company will buy them out. The new
stores will be Shears and Claymart. ^_^

Or, equivalently, HF will expand.....

*From what I read lately, HF tools are probably just as good.

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing. I have seen Snap-On tools break under comparable
abuse, so I'm not sure there is any real advantage there.

I've had a Craftsman flare nut wrench "spread" the first time I tried
to use it. Also have been disappointed by a few screwdrivers that
seemed to be made of compressed poop and fail - especially the
straight blade ones seem to twist rather easily. I also had a Torx
screwdriver shaft twist in the handle the very first time I tried to
use it - to adjust the choke housing on a brand new Edelbrock
carburetor (e.g. not corroded or seized.)

Other than having to exchange ratchets every now and again, I've had
zero problems with Craftsman's socket sets however, although now that
I've said that... (mine were purchased sometime around 1995ish, FWIW
- those that I didn't inherit from older family members that is) I
did have a cracked Husky brand socket (probably still do somewhere)
that I have yet to figure out how to exchange - the employees of that
Orange Colored Store just look at each other and shrug when I ask them
how to get a replacement. Despite the huge "Lifetime Warranty!"
banner over the socket display that was in the last store that I
tried. No more Husky tools for me!

nate

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:10:59 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 12/27/2011 10:58 PM, oldyork90 wrote:
I'm reading bad news about Sears/KMart. If Sears goes tits up, I hope
they hand off the Craftsman line. I always had good luck with their
hand tools.

Don't worry, some Chinese holding company will buy them out. The new
stores will be Shears and Claymart. ^_^

Or, equivalently, HF will expand.....

I could be wrong, but I doubt it. The profit taking that resulted in their
lower selection and greater number of listed items out of stock doesn't
leave them in much of a position to pick up market share. Wal-Mart will
likely continue to expand though.


I'm not taking any chances.
I've got $150 in Sears gift card and I'm going tomorrow to get $150 in
tools.
That SOB Corzine running MF Global just cost me money with bankruptcy.
I had a futures account there that I hadn't traded for over a year,
and I was going to close it.
Hesitated because I wasn't quite sure I wouldn't want to do a trade,
and it's a hassle to open an account.
Opened that in 1987 when it was 1st American.
MF Global acquired it maybe 4-5 years ago.
Wasn't much in there. $1800.
But now it's $1300 in a different brokerage.
Where's my bailout?
That cocksucker Corzine is a billionaire, and stole $500 from me.
He belongs in a federal pen.

--Vic

George Plimpton wrote:

On 12/28/2011 10:27 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/28/2011 12:55 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing.

Then you've gotten damn lucky with the HF tools. IME, they're garbage.

I went into a HF once. It was next door to a skateboard shop my son
wanted to check out. I had long heard people rave about HF, so I went
in to see. I was not impressed. Most of the merchandise seemed like
cheap Asian junk, probably bought at customs auctions (same way Trader
Joe's used to buy a lot of its stuff in the early days, before they
began doing a lot of private label deals.) This was a good few years
ago, so maybe they've improved their merchandise lines since then.

There is no shortage of crap at HF, but there are some real gems as
well. The hydraulic crimper and the hydraulic KO punch sets are two
examples that work very well and are 1/10 the cost of any competitive
units.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:48:23 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

This year I picked up a cheap Shakespeare spinning rod for 15 bucks at
a Walmart in Punta Gorda. About the third cast with a 3 ounce bottom
rig it snapped about 6 inches from the tip.
It wasn't a smooth cast, but the rod was defective.
Never saw anything like that

chuckle What were you planning to do with a 3 ounce weight, knock
the fish in the head and then net 'em when they came to the surface?

How deep and what were you fishing for?

On 12/28/2011 12:32 PM, Pete C. wrote:

George Plimpton wrote:

On 12/28/2011 10:27 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/28/2011 12:55 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing.

Then you've gotten damn lucky with the HF tools. IME, they're garbage.

I went into a HF once. It was next door to a skateboard shop my son
wanted to check out. I had long heard people rave about HF, so I went
in to see. I was not impressed. Most of the merchandise seemed like
cheap Asian junk, probably bought at customs auctions (same way Trader
Joe's used to buy a lot of its stuff in the early days, before they
began doing a lot of private label deals.) This was a good few years
ago, so maybe they've improved their merchandise lines since then.

There is no shortage of crap at HF, but there are some real gems as
well. The hydraulic crimper and the hydraulic KO punch sets are two
examples that work very well and are 1/10 the cost of any competitive
units.

That might well be. In general, it seems that people who actually work
with tools for a living, or as a major hobby, seem to know how to get
good deals at HF. I'm not at that level.

The Wikipedia entry on Craftsman makes for some interesting reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craftsman_%28tools%29

I would say from that, it wouldn't be hard for Craftsman to keep on
going even if the retailer goes down. They're really just a marketing
brand, anyway - no independent manufacturing or design.

On 2011-12-28, Pete C. wrote:

George Plimpton wrote:

On 12/28/2011 10:27 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/28/2011 12:55 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing.

Then you've gotten damn lucky with the HF tools. IME, they're garbage.

I went into a HF once. It was next door to a skateboard shop my son
wanted to check out. I had long heard people rave about HF, so I went
in to see. I was not impressed. Most of the merchandise seemed like
cheap Asian junk, probably bought at customs auctions (same way Trader
Joe's used to buy a lot of its stuff in the early days, before they
began doing a lot of private label deals.) This was a good few years
ago, so maybe they've improved their merchandise lines since then.

There is no shortage of crap at HF, but there are some real gems as
well. The hydraulic crimper and the hydraulic KO punch sets are two
examples that work very well and are 1/10 the cost of any competitive
units.

All their premium wrenches work great for me.

i

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:36:30 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:48:23 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

This year I picked up a cheap Shakespeare spinning rod for 15 bucks at
a Walmart in Punta Gorda. About the third cast with a 3 ounce bottom
rig it snapped about 6 inches from the tip.
It wasn't a smooth cast, but the rod was defective.
Never saw anything like that

chuckle What were you planning to do with a 3 ounce weight, knock
the fish in the head and then net 'em when they came to the surface?

How deep and what were you fishing for?

Wasn't very deep, but the tide was running pretty strong.
Fishing for anything that likes shrimp, but I caught a tarpon there
once. But not on shrimp. Hoping for grouper or nice snapper.
Wasn't using shrimp on that line though. Frozen cigar minnow.
So whatever liked dead cigar minnow.
And that was nothing at all.
But the main reason I had the 3 on there was to toss it far out.
You know, it's always better to fish where you can't get to.
Especially when they aren't biting where you are.
Same as "Man, I wish I could get over to that shore under those
overhanging branches. Bet that's where they are."
BTW, saying it wasn't a smooth cast might be too kind.
Had something behind me and I jerked the hell out of it.
Still shouldn't have snapped the rod.
I've jerked many much harder and never had them snap.

--Vic

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 07:07:59 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/28/2011 6:21 AM, Bill wrote:
"oldyork90" wrote in message
I'm reading bad news about Sears/KMart. If Sears goes tits up, I hope
they hand off the Craftsman line. I always had good luck with their
hand tools.

You might want to RE-READ the story!

"Sears, which has more than 4,000 full-line and specialty retail stores"...

"said yesterday that it will close 100 to 120 Sears and Kmart stores"

i.e. less than 3% -- probably not nearly enough, IMHO.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...ales-fall.html

I noticed this comment by one analyst quoted in the article: €œThe only
reason why people buy at Kmart is because its close. No one would buy
at Kmart if theyre closer to a Walmart or Target."

It brought to mind something I'd read about ten years ago, that
WalMart's market research showed that something like one-third of the
people shopping at WalMart drove past a Kmart to get there.

I haven't been inside a Kmart for years. There used to be one about five
minutes from home, but it closed around 2002, and now I don't even know
where the nearest one is.
When they closed all the K-Mart stores in Canada it wasn't soon
enough. You KNEW if you got a sales flier the items on sale would NOT
be in stock - even on the first day of the sale, and if they were,
nobody on the store staff would have an idea where it is.

On 28 Dec 2011 13:57:07 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2011-12-28, oldyork90 wrote:

they hand off the Craftsman line. I always had good luck with their
hand tools.

Luck is exactly what you've had. Lucky they didn't break on you when
you needed them the most. I quit buying Craftsman tools 40 yrs when I
became a professional mechanic and the closest Sears was 90 miles
away. They're junk.

nb
And I'll dissagree. I bought Craftsman tools when I started as a
professional mechanic in 1969 and I still have most of them. The ones
I don't still have were lost, not broken. I have not replaced 10% of
that set in over 40 years.
A classmate bought Snap-On tools at the same time - paid 5 times as
much for them, and replaced half within the first 2 years. Darn good
thing the truck came around every 2 weeks, because he NEEDED it.
The Snappies are nicer looking, a bit nicer feeling, and have a bit
more "panache", for sure - but the Craftsman stuff was definitely a
lot more value for the money.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:27:53 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/28/2011 12:55 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing.

Then you've gotten damn lucky with the HF tools. IME, they're garbage.

I had to return this set of snap ring pliers
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...s-set-610.html
because the points on the jaws bent, the first time I used them, to the
point that a snap ring wouldn't stay on them.

These punches
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...set-93111.html
mushroomed and bent on first use under gentle tapping.

and so on. Crap like that just doesn't happen with Craftsman tools.


When you buy HF tools..dont always buy the cheapest tools they have on
the shelves. They have a line of Crap tools..and a line of actually
decent tools. The crap tools are dirt cheap..and worth less than what
you paid for them.

I purchased 4 sets of pin punches from them..one for each truck and one
for the shop, and one for the other shop..and all are still working
nicely. Yes..I did have to grind a couple over the years..but I was
swinging a pretty good sized hammer and it took a while to mash em up

Those snap ring plyers are the crap ones. Take them and the punches
back to the manager..and tell em you want either your money back or a
better set of each. You will get them.

Gunner



One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Doug Miller wrote:

On 12/28/2011 12:55 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing.

Then you've gotten damn lucky with the HF tools. IME, they're garbage.

I had to return this set of snap ring pliers
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...s-set-610.html
because the points on the jaws bent, the first time I used them, to the
point that a snap ring wouldn't stay on them.

These punches
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...set-93111.html
mushroomed and bent on first use under gentle tapping.

and so on. Crap like that just doesn't happen with Craftsman tools.


Really? I ruined a brand new #2 'Shaftsman' screwdriver when I tried
to take the 6/32" screws out of a computer case. I tossed it in the
scrap metal bucket and picked up a no name #2 made in China that I
bought new for 20 cents and finished the job. I had just exchanged that
piece of crap at Sears an hour earlier. The worn out one was well
made. The replacement had bad chrome over badly pitted steel. That was
over 10 years ago. I haven't bought any tools there, since. I was
given two gift cards about that time, and got to cordless drills that
didn't last a year. I have a power miter small saw from Sears. They
piece of crap blows sawdust into the handle. It packs tight, and you
can't bring the blade all the way down. I have one of their 10" table
saws that was made by Emerson. It has a custom mounted motor that can't
be replaced. It used a thermal breaker, instead of a start switch in
the motor. That part hasn't been available in a long, long time. If you
put either part number in a search engine you get tens of thousands of
hit from people trying to find parts.

I have only had one bad tool from Harbor Freight, and I started
dealing with them about 30 years ago. It was a six in one screwdriver
that had a burr in the handle that wouldn't let you use one of the
reversible bits.

My favorite hand tools were Xcelite, until 'The Cooper Group' bought
them.
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 08:22:27 -0800 (PST), wrote
Re Sears, I'll miss the tools:

I don't know how they whip Walmart employees into feeling good and
acting positively for such a low-paying job.

This explains it
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Wa...?trkid=2361637
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:35:04 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:36:30 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:48:23 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

This year I picked up a cheap Shakespeare spinning rod for 15 bucks at
a Walmart in Punta Gorda. About the third cast with a 3 ounce bottom
rig it snapped about 6 inches from the tip.
It wasn't a smooth cast, but the rod was defective.
Never saw anything like that

chuckle What were you planning to do with a 3 ounce weight, knock
the fish in the head and then net 'em when they came to the surface?

How deep and what were you fishing for?

Wasn't very deep, but the tide was running pretty strong.
Fishing for anything that likes shrimp, but I caught a tarpon there
once. But not on shrimp. Hoping for grouper or nice snapper.
Wasn't using shrimp on that line though. Frozen cigar minnow.
So whatever liked dead cigar minnow.
And that was nothing at all.
But the main reason I had the 3 on there was to toss it far out.
You know, it's always better to fish where you can't get to.
Especially when they aren't biting where you are.
Same as "Man, I wish I could get over to that shore under those
overhanging branches. Bet that's where they are."
BTW, saying it wasn't a smooth cast might be too kind.
Had something behind me and I jerked the hell out of it.
Still shouldn't have snapped the rod.
I've jerked many much harder and never had them snap.

--Vic

I've fished along the gulf coast much of my life. For snapper I would
use a slip sinker around the mangrove tree roots using shrimp. Over
the flats you can free-spool just a shrimp and hook in the grass for
speckled trout. Lures work very well (red / white mirror lures) The
groupers hug the rocks along deep channels when the tides are moving
fast in and out. Then heavy weights get caught in the rocks and can
break off.

A few times I fished with an acquaintance along the Gulf Stream in Ft.
Lauderdale for Tile Fish... He built a reel from a bicycle frame,
used stainless steel wire WITH the old cast iron window weights.
Usually two weights ( 20 lbs total? ) in deep water. Drifting with the
current. Tile fish are usually caught in 50-200 meters of water. You
can catch as many as you have hooks (six hooks is good).

Reeling in to go home one day, a Marlin grabbed the line and jumped
from the water. We lost him, because he was swinging 20 lbs of weight
around and yanked the hook out (sigh) What a sight it was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilefish
....
50 meters = 164.041995 feet
200 meters = 656.167979 feet

Good Luck next time :-\

In article ,
oldyork90 wrote:
I'm reading bad news about Sears/KMart. If Sears goes tits up, I hope
they hand off the Craftsman line. I always had good luck with their
hand tools.

A limited selection has been available from MSC and possibly other
sources for some time now.


--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On 12/28/2011 1:38 PM, bob haller wrote:
On Dec 28, 1:19 pm, Hell wrote:
On 12/28/2011 11:11 AM, Steve B wrote:

wrote in message
...
I'm reading bad news about Sears/KMart. If Sears goes tits up, I hope
they hand off the Craftsman line. I always had good luck with their
hand tools.

Ace currently sells Craftsman.

As mentioned upthread, the CEO of the company that acquired Kmart,
then got Sears in a hostile takeover and created Sears Holdings from
merging the two chains created another subsidiary company and put the
Kenmore, Craftsman, and Diehard brands into that company. In other
words, those brands aren't owned by Sears anymore, so if/when Sears
goes tits up, those assets won't end up on the auction block. Plus, it
allows him to cut deals with other retailers to carry those brands in
their stores, thus generating more income for his company.

This guy isn't a retailer, he's a financier. He's been putting the
income from the chains into hedge fund investments instead of plowing
it back into the stores. That's why the stores look old and rundown.
He's just gradually stripping them of their assets.

yeah thats it sears is a licensee of the craftsman brand. some
craftsman tool packages have said that.

theres talk of craftsman and kenmore being sold at home depot soon.
which creates the question, if you can buy theses brands elsewhere why
go to sears at all? having craftsman tools at ace hardware likely hurt
sears stores sales

this was asked by a online article over a year ago.

eddie lampert who put the sears k mart company together had planned on
selling off sears real estate. but then the real estate market
collapsed

our local kmart is a dump and i quit going there when they had zero
cashier check outs available and tried to force me to use self check
out/

i ranted and walked out.......

k mart has checkout glitches all the time....I prefer to drive futher
and shop at target, unfortunately the nearest wallmart is over a half
hours drive.

i try to buy all my hardware stuff from vaters, the last remaining
store of what was 15.....

they order stuff i need and their employees are hardware people

Similar observations here. I quit Sears years ago but local Kmart is
only 2 miles away and in further past was a decent store but started to
go down hill. Now with Sears take over it is even worse as they moved
in Sears items like washing machines and refrigerators which were not
sold at Kmart and moved out stuff I might be interested in.

Now I go a couple of miles more to Walmart.

Forty years or so, Sears was nations largest retailer. They did not
have the most stores but made up for it in volume sold per square foot
of store space.

My wife was still shopping at Sears until a couple of years ago when a
Sears clerk stole her id which we discovered when she charged about a
thousand dollars to her credit card.

Both stores are in their death throes and might as well close.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:17:13 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:27:53 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/28/2011 12:55 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing.

Then you've gotten damn lucky with the HF tools. IME, they're garbage.

I had to return this set of snap ring pliers
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...s-set-610.html
because the points on the jaws bent, the first time I used them, to the
point that a snap ring wouldn't stay on them.

These punches
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...set-93111.html
mushroomed and bent on first use under gentle tapping.

and so on. Crap like that just doesn't happen with Craftsman tools.


When you buy HF tools..dont always buy the cheapest tools they have on
the shelves. They have a line of Crap tools..and a line of actually
decent tools. The crap tools are dirt cheap..and worth less than what
you paid for them.

I purchased 4 sets of pin punches from them..one for each truck and one
for the shop, and one for the other shop..and all are still working
nicely. Yes..I did have to grind a couple over the years..but I was
swinging a pretty good sized hammer and it took a while to mash em up

Those snap ring plyers are the crap ones. Take them and the punches
back to the manager..and tell em you want either your money back or a
better set of each. You will get them.

Gunner


Oh...on their sockets. They had a line of black "anodized" sockets with
the sizes anodized on them. The sockets themselves were pretty damned
good. The anodizing on the other hand...was thin and wore off rather
easily. I tend to keep my metrics in one bag, SAE in another bag...and
over a couple 3 yrs..all the "anodizing" rubbed off while bouncing
around in the side boxes of my service truck...leaving me with full sets
of 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2" sockets in both metric and SAE..that have no
identification on any of them. Which is a pain in the ass. The
sockets themselves have been given hell..and they remain in good shape
and Ive not busted any of them. And Ive used impact drivers on some of
them..and long cheaters with breaker bars. None broken. But the ****ing
things..no way to tell what size they are..

So you might want to purchase the sets that have the sizes punched into
them like most normal sockets do...unless you want to go nuts every
couple weeks keeping them seperated. Ive not tried to take them back and
exchange them...I may electrochem engrave the sizes on them one of these
days..or use a big electric engraver..or simply take them back and
exchange them for properly marked sockets.

If they live in your tool box in proper holders..there is nothing to
worry about.. but if they bang around in the back of your truck in a box
with other tools...buy a different flavor.,

As I recall..they were marked "high visibility" sockets...but they were
smooth black with the size in clear allowing the silver to show through.
Not the rough black of the impact tools..which are surprisingly good as
well.


Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"Doug Miller"
wrote in message
...
On 12/28/2011 12:55 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF
hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing.

Then you've gotten damn lucky with the HF tools.
IME, they're garbage.

I had to return this set of snap ring pliers
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...s-set-610.html
because the points on the jaws bent, the first
time I used them, to the point that a snap ring
wouldn't stay on them.

These punches
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...set-93111.html
mushroomed and bent on first use under gentle
tapping.

and so on. Crap like that just doesn't happen
with Craftsman tools.

I've got a car-quest brand 1/4 inch left hand
drill bit twisted back
to a right hand drill! Got some funny looks when I
loaned out the set.
The 5/16 bit bent into a curve. ;)}

For a trip down memory lane into the long gone days of yesteryear, may I
take this opportunity to remind you all of: (among many others)

Korvettes
Ames
Caldor
Woolworth
Gimbels
Murphy's Mart (GC Murphy)
Zayre's
and of course, Montgomery Wards!

--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On 12/28/2011 6:17 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:27:53 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/28/2011 12:55 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing.

Then you've gotten damn lucky with the HF tools. IME, they're garbage.

I had to return this set of snap ring pliers
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...s-set-610.html
because the points on the jaws bent, the first time I used them, to the
point that a snap ring wouldn't stay on them.

These punches
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...set-93111.html
mushroomed and bent on first use under gentle tapping.

and so on. Crap like that just doesn't happen with Craftsman tools.


When you buy HF tools..dont always buy the cheapest tools they have on
the shelves.

I didn't. That set of snap ring pliers, for instance, was actually the
most expensive one they had in stock.

They have a line of Crap tools..and a line of actually
decent tools.

No, they don't. They have a line of crap tools ... and a line of crap tools.

The crap tools are dirt cheap..and worth less than what
you paid for them.

Well, you did get that part right, anyway...

N8N writes:

I did have a cracked Husky brand socket (probably still do
somewhere) that I have yet to figure out how to exchange - the
employees of that Orange Colored Store just look at each other
and shrug when I ask them how to get a replacement. Despite
the huge "Lifetime Warranty!" banner over the socket display
that was in the last store that I tried. No more Husky tools
for me!

We had a 0.5" drive breaker bar from HD. Sheared off the square
part while working on a halfshaft job. [Jeeze; the pipe was only
about 10' long....]

Walked into HD. Went to desk. She asked "Do we stock these?" and
I went and found one. She tagged the broken one & said "you're
set..." and away I went.
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

craftsman tools like screwdrivers are no longer chrome plated, newer
ones rust I repair roll laminators for a living and now use some
environmentally friendly water based cleaners. only trouble is the
craftsman tools in my box rust

only stores that are no longer around add WT GRANT. they closed in
the 70s.

Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/28/2011 12:55 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing.

Then you've gotten damn lucky with the HF tools. IME, they're garbage.

I had to return this set of snap ring pliers
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...s-set-610.html
because the points on the jaws bent, the first time I used them, to the
point that a snap ring wouldn't stay on them.

These punches
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...set-93111.html
mushroomed and bent on first use under gentle tapping.

and so on. Crap like that just doesn't happen with Craftsman tools.

There are certain HF stuff that I consider excellent. If you buy enough
stuff you will learn.

I always enjoy shopping at sears unlike most stores. My kmart is always
clean and the thing that annoys me the most, is too much clothing, and
seasonal stock.
Kmart got rid of over a hundred stores in 2003. I lost a hundred bucks
buying stock at bottom. My kmart burned to the ground over 10 years ago,
and was rebuilt, but target also opened up. Business is always slow, but
it's easy to pick up drugs.

I hate shopping at walmart, although the older store which was replaced was
more fun. Long lines, hard parking, long walks, unfriendly atmosphere, but
where can you go and get such a wide assortment of things. The old store I
could go in and buy cleaning supplies, now I got to walk a mile and go to
grocery to buy cleaning supplies, WTF. I have been at another walmart, and
the place had a small fraction of buyers compared to my local walmart.

Greg

Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/28/2011 12:55 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing.

Then you've gotten damn lucky with the HF tools. IME, they're garbage.

I had to return this set of snap ring pliers
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...s-set-610.html
because the points on the jaws bent, the first time I used them, to the
point that a snap ring wouldn't stay on them.

These punches
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...set-93111.html
mushroomed and bent on first use under gentle tapping.

and so on. Crap like that just doesn't happen with Craftsman tools.

Pittsburgh labeled, not too good, but my the two tool sets I just bought
are lifetime warranted. I bought a nice axe at HF. Wood handle made in us,
axe made in Germany.

Greg

Please define "cult" for me.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Pete C." wrote in message
.com...

Indeed we do, and I avoid doing business with places that allow cults to
operate on their property and harass their customers. BTW, for anyone
who thinks the SA is not a cult, do a bit of research and report back.

To be fair, I think I've only had that one box that leaked. I do recharge
alkaline primary use cells, and some will leak if recharged. That doesn't
count.

Sounds like your Excelite tools were first rate.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

burr down? I also had a full pack of AA batteries (alkalines) from HF leak
in the box. My HF electric plug in impact wrench, the switch is flaky, it
loosens but doesn't tighten.


I bought a plastic pack of those about two years ago, and have nine
left. I use them in wireless mice that are on 16 hours a day.


My Dad had a set of Excelite, and they were really good.


I still have one of the original Xcelite99SM roll up tool sets that I
was give on my birthday in 1974, by the other engineer at the Military
TV station we worked at. He laughed and said, that he had watched me
fix everything with nothing for a year, and that I was going home with
some decent tools. The only tools that wore out were the two reamers.
I had to replace a few others that disappeared when my back was turned.
I carried that set on service calls, and used it on my bench for several
decades.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:08:33 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Stormin Mormon wrote:

Sorry you got a bad Crapsman. I've had plenty of bad tools from HF,
including some Pittsburgh flare wrenches that didn't turn flare fittings.
Too loose, they slipped. Your reversible, you maybe could have filed the
burr down? I also had a full pack of AA batteries (alkalines) from HF leak
in the box. My HF electric plug in impact wrench, the switch is flaky, it
loosens but doesn't tighten.


I bought a plastic pack of those about two years ago, and have nine
left. I use them in wireless mice that are on 16 hours a day.


What mice? I've been using Logitech wireless since they first came
out. Not anything fancy, just typical 3-button. Laser now.
Light is always on.
Always wish they had an on/off switch to save the batteries.
Using rechargeable, but it's a hassle changing batteries out pretty
often, maybe every 10 days or so.

--Vic

dpb wrote:

On 12/28/2011 2:54 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
On 12/28/2011 12:32 PM, Pete C. wrote:

George Plimpton wrote:
...
I went into a HF once. It was next door to a skateboard shop my son
wanted to check out. I had long heard people rave about HF, so I went
in to see. I was not impressed. Most of the merchandise seemed like
cheap Asian junk, ... was a good few years
ago, so maybe they've improved their merchandise lines since then.

Not really, no...

There is no shortage of crap at HF, but there are some real gems as
well. The hydraulic crimper and the hydraulic KO punch sets are two
examples that work very well and are 1/10 the cost of any competitive
units.

That might well be. In general, it seems that people who actually work
with tools for a living, or as a major hobby, seem to know how to get
good deals at HF. I'm not at that level.

The biggest complaint I've had is that there's absolutely no expectation
that a particular tool/device that is good one time will be the same the
next...

This is true, so if you like an item you go back and buy a few more the
next day so you get them from the same lot.