On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 19:39:22 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:09:35 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


Logitech's latest wireless mice have a mini-USB charging connector. You
don't have to stop using them to charge them. I found docks to be a
nuisance.

One of my kids gave me one with a docking port.
Plenty of desk space, so the dock didn't bother me.
But I didn't like the shape of the mouse, so I gave it back.
Also tried one of those similar to what Nate mentioned.
Didn't like the shape.
Always used the common "teardrop" shaped
Think I'm just going to have to adjust to a new shape to go to a dock
or one with an off/on switch.
Or just keep changing batteries.
Don't know why my batteries last only about 10 days.
Doesn't matter what brand.
I do a lot of gaming so the mouse is always moving then.
Don't know if a moving mouse consumes more juice than an idle one.

--Vic


Dont use a trackball eh?

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:54:51 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 08:39 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:09:35 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


Logitech's latest wireless mice have a mini-USB charging connector. You
don't have to stop using them to charge them. I found docks to be a
nuisance.

One of my kids gave me one with a docking port.
Plenty of desk space, so the dock didn't bother me.
But I didn't like the shape of the mouse, so I gave it back.
Also tried one of those similar to what Nate mentioned.
Didn't like the shape.
Always used the common "teardrop" shaped
Think I'm just going to have to adjust to a new shape to go to a dock
or one with an off/on switch.
Or just keep changing batteries.
Don't know why my batteries last only about 10 days.
Doesn't matter what brand.
I do a lot of gaming so the mouse is always moving then.
Don't know if a moving mouse consumes more juice than an idle one.

--Vic

Probably. they tend to have a "sleep" mode.

My problem is I have big hands, like a big mouse, but don't like cords.
When all my old mice started dying I researched
obsessive-compulsively. I bought a Cyborg RAT7 which is actually corded
but had some other features that I liked, and the Performance Mouse MX.
The RAT7 was my favorite and had a real light, "limp" cord so it
wasn't too offensive. It died after two months of use I'm still
using the PMMX at home but miss the "pinky shelf" of the RAT. Need to
find a new mouse to take to work; right now I'm using a Dell OEM mouse
that I stole from the IT guy and it's ****ing me off with how cheap and
nasty it is (especially compared to my Filco keyboard... hey, I figure
if I'm going to spend at least half and often all of my working day in
front of a computer, I might as well not be ****ed off by my input devices.)

nate

Pick up a decent trackball and you wont go back

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On 12/29/2011 11:18 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:11:06 -0800, Delvin ýt wrote:

On 12/29/2011 4:59 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:30:23 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11

Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....

Blink blink...Chinese tools...they dont have the same Label..no they
certainly dont.

They clearly are materially different.

Prove it.

Done.

Delvin Benet wrote:
On 12/29/2011 11:18 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:11:06 -0800, Delvin ýt wrote:

On 12/29/2011 4:59 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:30:23 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.
Bull****
What was your first clue?

Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11

Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....
Blink blink...Chinese tools...they dont have the same Label..no they
certainly dont.
They clearly are materially different.
Prove it.

Done.

Having held both in my hands they are the same under the skin. Made in
the same Chinese plant.
Labels don't mean anything when it comes to Chinese tools, they will
paint/label as the customer wants.

Take a look at the various small lathes that HF/Grizzly/Northern tool
sells. They are all the same made in the same plant, just different
color paint and plating. Just like a GMC truck and a Chevrolet truck.
They are identical except for the decals and option groups.

--
Steve W.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:25:14 -0800, Delvin Benet ýt wrote:

On 12/29/2011 11:18 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:11:06 -0800, Delvin ýt wrote:

On 12/29/2011 4:59 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:30:23 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11

Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....

Blink blink...Chinese tools...they dont have the same Label..no they
certainly dont.

They clearly are materially different.

Prove it.

Done.

Still waiting

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On 12/30/2011 2:18 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:11:06 -0800, Delvin ýt wrote:

On 12/29/2011 4:59 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:30:23 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11

Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....

Blink blink...Chinese tools...they dont have the same Label..no they
certainly dont.

They clearly are materially different.

Prove it.

You proved it yourself. Did you even look at the links you posted?
They're *obviously* not the same.

The Daring Dufas wrote:

-snip-
When someone asks me for a job, I ask if they have experience, when they
say they do, I ask how much stuff have you broken or burned up.
If they say none, I know they're lying and have no experience. I tell
them I need someone who's already burned up thousands of dollars worth
of equipment some place else and learned from their mistakes. ^_^

Well, then. I'm your man. BTDT-- in spades.BG

Jim

sears where america used to shop........

very sad

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Please define "cult" for me.

Here you go:

World English Dictionary
cult (kʌlt) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

— n
1. a specific system of religious worship, esp with reference to its
rites and deity
2. a sect devoted to such a system
3. a quasi-religious organization using devious psychological
techniques to gain and control adherents

Stormin Mormon wrote:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_it_...is_like_a_cult
Answer:

The Salvation Army though a Christian denomination (not a cult) does appear
to some as one due, to the military titles and military structure it holds
to.

Cult and religion are synonymous. All cults are religions and all
religions are cults.

On 2011-12-30, Vic Smith wrote:
Sears replaced it.
He snapped my 7/8 combo wrench by jumping on it.
Sears replaced it.
His favorite small wrenches are Craftsman and a set of long handle
Pittsburgh from Harbor freight he's had for 6 years.
Says Mac wrenches bend, Craftsman snap.

Nice, if you have Sears within a 100 miles. Not so nice if you
don't.

Says Snap-on flank drive wrenches, which are all they offer now,
round nuts like there's no tomorrow.

Sounds strange, as the whole point (no pun intended) of flank drive is
to engage the flats of the hex so the points are not rounded or
rounded points can still be worked. Is he saying the wrench
intentionally rounds the points so it can work? That's jes silly.

Bonney originally invented the flank design. When the patent expired,
everyone and their dog copied it, even Craftsman. Perhaps not everyone
got it right.

I'd love to hear some of the stories. I have a lifetime of them,
myself. And yes, not all tool companies are good at all tools and a
brand name doesn't ensure quality. One of the cheapest pieces of
Chinese junk I ever paid good money for came off a SnapOn truck. It
broke the first time I used it.


nb

--
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

On 12/30/2011 2:26 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:25:14 -0800, Delvin ýt wrote:

On 12/29/2011 11:18 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:11:06 -0800, Delvin ýt wrote:

On 12/29/2011 4:59 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:30:23 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11

Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....

Blink blink...Chinese tools...they dont have the same Label..no they
certainly dont.

They clearly are materially different.

Prove it.

Done.

Still waiting

yawn

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:22:10 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:54:51 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 08:39 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:09:35 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


Logitech's latest wireless mice have a mini-USB charging connector. You
don't have to stop using them to charge them. I found docks to be a
nuisance.

They still make the rechargeable mice? Last time I had one was a BSR
from the first iteration of DAK. Serial port. Shows you how long ago
*that* was.

Problem being the same as with a lot of things in life - if they
aren't mass-produced and actively marketed they tend to be way too
expensive. You're paying a lot more for the one-by-one hand assembly.

One of my kids gave me one with a docking port.
Plenty of desk space, so the dock didn't bother me.
But I didn't like the shape of the mouse, so I gave it back.
Also tried one of those similar to what Nate mentioned.
Didn't like the shape.
Always used the common "teardrop" shaped
Think I'm just going to have to adjust to a new shape to go to a dock
or one with an off/on switch.
Or just keep changing batteries.
Don't know why my batteries last only about 10 days.
Doesn't matter what brand.
I do a lot of gaming so the mouse is always moving then.
Don't know if a moving mouse consumes more juice than an idle one.

--Vic

Probably. they tend to have a "sleep" mode.


That they do - I was using a stock cheap HP (Logitech) cordless
mouse using two AA's, and it took a mouse-click to wake it up after
sitting.

Actually wasn't bad, went several months on a set of batteries if you
used decent alkaline batteries.

My problem is I have big hands, like a big mouse, but don't like cords.
When all my old mice started dying I researched
obsessive-compulsively. I bought a Cyborg RAT7 which is actually corded
but had some other features that I liked, and the Performance Mouse MX.
The RAT7 was my favorite and had a real light, "limp" cord so it
wasn't too offensive. It died after two months of use I'm still
using the PMMX at home but miss the "pinky shelf" of the RAT. Need to
find a new mouse to take to work; right now I'm using a Dell OEM mouse
that I stole from the IT guy and it's ****ing me off with how cheap and
nasty it is (especially compared to my Filco keyboard... hey, I figure
if I'm going to spend at least half and often all of my working day in
front of a computer, I might as well not be ****ed off by my input devices.)

nate

Pick up a decent trackball and you wont go back

Gunner

Actually, if you could still get them easily I'd be getting the corded
keyboards with a Touchpad built in. Never got lost, and they would
work in odd places like when you were working on a big project on the
desk and had the keyboard balanced on top of the monitor.

Or drop it on top of the pile and do your thing without finding a
clear flat clean spot for mousing. All it needed to be was flat
enough so the keyboard stayed on the desk.

The best ones had drivers where you touch and drag the right edge of
the pad and drag the window up and down, or the bottom and drag it
side to side. Nice and intuitive.

-- Bruce --

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:51:16 -0800, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 12/28/2011 9:55 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Frank wrote:

On 12/28/2011 3:05 AM, Existential Angst wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message
...
On 12/27/2011 10:58 PM, oldyork90 wrote:
I'm reading bad news about Sears/KMart. If Sears goes tits up, I hope
they hand off the Craftsman line. I always had good luck with their
hand tools.

Don't worry, some Chinese holding company will buy them out. The new
stores will be Shears and Claymart. ^_^

Or, equivalently, HF will expand.....

From what I read lately, HF tools are probably just as good.

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing. I have seen Snap-On tools break under comparable
abuse, so I'm not sure there is any real advantage there.

having been an ASE certified master auto/heavy truck technician for over
30 years, i can ASSURE you the only advantage to the snap on / mac tools
is the fact that the man walks right up to you every week without fail
and asks 'what do you need?'. I still, after all these years have
mostly craftsman tools, but when you need something craftsman doesn't
have or tools you just happen to like the feel for better, (i'm thinking
about my flex head bent handled 3/8" drive ratchet that is over a
hundred dollars from snap on) there is the snap on man on Thursdays
about 1 PM. Not to mention they will finance (usually) without any
credit hassles or checks. A lot of the drivers just carry the revolving
accounts themselves.

The big problem IMHO with the Tool Truck Guys like Mac, Snap-On,
Cornwall, etc. is their Rubber Band Pricing - they figure the "Free
Financing" into the 'List' shelf prices, and the mechanics know but
don't care. They needed the $10K of tools on credit *now* when they
got hired, and they get paid back as they complete jobs.

But the average boob off the street doesn't realize how it works, and
gets ripped nicely. And I'll bet even some mechanics that he's dealt
with for decades don't press for a "better credit rating" price or a
"Cash" price when they need a tool.

-- Bruce --

Oren wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 19:54:14 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Vic Smith wrote:

Same with plums.
Bought about 6 plums at a fruit store.
Most delicious plums I ever had.
So 2 days later I bought an entire case at the same place.
Different lot. They sucked big time and I tossed nearly all of them.


That will teach you not to eat an entire case of plums at once. ;-)

Hey. I engaged a conversation.

The guy believed in prune trees ....


Prune trees are plum trees that don't get enough water, late in the
season. ;-)


Prune come from ...


The supermarket.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

David Lesher wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" writes:

I have one..batteries in it are toast. One of these days Ill pop it open
and replace the batteries. The mouse sits in a cradle which is plugged
into a USB port..its both the receiver and charger.

Ill dig it out and post the model number if you want.

I have a half dozen that had the Ni-Cads leak and damage the mice.

My mouse has a tail; and no batteries. It never leaks, and I can
always find in under the junque on my desk...just start at the
USB port and...


Hope the USB port isn't flaky? I currently have over 100 good new and
used computer mice on hand. Most of the bad ones were rechargeable,
cordless. The most of rest have bad tact switches on the left button.
A few had a bad cord, or lost their balls. I have serial mice, bus
mice, AT mice, PS/2 mice, and USB mice. I gave away the pen mouse, and
the early optical mice that used an aluminum plate with a grid silk
screened on the surface. A friend of mine was lusting after them for
the 'cool factor', so I gave them to him.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Dec 30, 10:19*am, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)"
wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:22:10 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:54:51 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 08:39 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:09:35 -0500, "J. Clarke"
*wrote:

Logitech's latest wireless mice have a mini-USB charging connector. *You
don't have to stop using them to charge them. *I found docks to be a
nuisance.

They still make the rechargeable mice? *Last time I had one was a BSR
from the first iteration of DAK. *Serial port. *Shows you how long ago
*that* was.

Problem being the same as with a lot of things in life - if they
aren't mass-produced and actively marketed they tend to be way too
expensive. *You're paying a lot more for the one-by-one hand assembly.





One of my kids gave me one with a docking port.
Plenty of desk space, so the dock didn't bother me.
But I didn't like the shape of the mouse, so I gave it back.
Also tried one of those similar to what Nate mentioned.
Didn't like the shape.
Always used the common "teardrop" shaped
Think I'm just going to have to adjust to a new shape to go to a dock
or one with an off/on switch.
Or just keep changing batteries.
Don't know why my batteries last only about 10 days.
Doesn't matter what brand.
I do a lot of gaming so the mouse is always moving then.
Don't know if a moving mouse consumes more juice than an idle one.

--Vic

Probably. *they tend to have a "sleep" mode.

* That they do - I was using a stock cheap HP (Logitech) cordless
mouse using two AA's, and it took a mouse-click to wake it up after
sitting.

Actually wasn't bad, went several months on a set of batteries if you
used decent alkaline batteries.





My problem is I have big hands, like a big mouse, but don't like cords.
*When all my old mice started dying I researched
obsessive-compulsively. *I bought a Cyborg RAT7 which is actually corded
but had some other features that I liked, and the Performance Mouse MX.
*The RAT7 was my favorite and had a real light, "limp" cord so it
wasn't too offensive. *It died after two months of use *I'm still
using the PMMX at home but miss the "pinky shelf" of the RAT. *Need to
find a new mouse to take to work; right now I'm using a Dell OEM mouse
that I stole from the IT guy and it's ****ing me off with how cheap and
nasty it is (especially compared to my Filco keyboard... hey, I figure
if I'm going to spend at least half and often all of my working day in
front of a computer, I might as well not be ****ed off by my input devices.)

nate

Pick up a decent trackball and you wont go back

Gunner

Actually, if you could still get them easily I'd be getting the corded
keyboards with a Touchpad built in. *Never got lost, and they would
work in odd places like when you were working on a big project on the
desk and had the keyboard balanced on top of the monitor.

Or drop it on top of the pile and do your thing without finding a
clear flat clean spot for mousing. *All it needed to be was flat
enough so the keyboard stayed on the desk.

The best ones had drivers where you touch and drag the right edge of
the pad and drag the window up and down, or the bottom and drag it
side to side. *Nice and intuitive.

I personally hate those, but if you haunt eBay, you can probably find
an old Cherry POS (that's Point of Sale, not what you think) keyboard
that has what you want. Or a Cherry 11900 series board that's
intended for a server rack. Another benefit is that they use high
quality mechanical key switches like the Japanese and Korean boards
aimed at the uber-hard-core gamer set. I personally don't like the
Cherry boards because both options move the arrow keys and nav cluster
out of the traditional positions, and I also don't particularly like
touchpads either, but they are very good boards and can often be found
for cheap used. When looking at Cherry boards, only buy ones with a
"G80" part number prefix, the G81 look nearly identical but use a
different, less expensive keyswitch mechanism that feels like pushing
your finger into a warm pile of excrement.

I actually had a Cherry POS board that I would have sent you for
shipping, but I tore it apart for the keyswitches (I liked the feel of
it, but not the layout or appearance, so I took an old Filco and used
the switches from the Cherry board to make my own personal "perfect
keyboard.")

nate

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 14:56:01 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:

LMMFAO!! a torque wrench on a drain plug!! oooooooo kayy.

Yes, to prevent overtightening.

Let me guess: you use an impact wrench.

I just put mine in until it contacts the threads. Then another half turn
to
be sure. Then 12-18 thuds with a 3/8" air impact set at 90 psi just to be
sure. And one last twist with a breaker bar to see if it will move any
more
at all.

So far, so good.

...now snug it up tight

Well, we wouldn't want it coming loose, now would we? I have seen just as
many put in finger tight by minimum wage lackeys.

Steve

On 30 Dec 2011 14:46:52 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2011-12-30, Vic Smith wrote:


Says Snap-on flank drive wrenches, which are all they offer now,
round nuts like there's no tomorrow.

Sounds strange, as the whole point (no pun intended) of flank drive is
to engage the flats of the hex so the points are not rounded or
rounded points can still be worked. Is he saying the wrench
intentionally rounds the points so it can work? That's jes silly.

Bonney originally invented the flank design. When the patent expired,
everyone and their dog copied it, even Craftsman. Perhaps not everyone
got it right.


Got no idea. Just what he said. Could have just used them on nuts
that were going to round anyway, or maybe the wrench spread.
Maybe he was just talking to talk.
Never used them myself, and never had many problems with rounding
unless the nut/bolt head was rusty.
I always start with a 6-point box or socket if I can.
But he works on dump trucks, fire trucks, busses, crane trucks, etc.
Ends up torching off a lot of stuff.
It's all beyond anything I did, so all I can do is listen to the
stories.

I'd love to hear some of the stories. I have a lifetime of them,
myself. And yes, not all tool companies are good at all tools and a
brand name doesn't ensure quality. One of the cheapest pieces of
Chinese junk I ever paid good money for came off a SnapOn truck. It
broke the first time I used it.


The latest story is the fire marshall told the shop to store their gas
cans in a metal cabinet. So the asst manager spent $300 on a
put-together cabinet of thin metal, and hurt his foot trying to get it
on a pallet after putting it together, and went home.
The manager then manhandled the cabinet onto the pallet to move it to
where it was supposed to be, When he lifted the pallet with the
forklift, the cabinet collapsed into a pile of bent metal.
My sons favorite stories are about managers.
Or his own injuries.
I'll find out later what happened with that cabinet.
But I made the mistake of asking why they have cans of gas.
Seems too many customers come in with an almost empty gas tank, mostly
pick-ups.
Whoever does the work has to test drive the vehicle, and they don't
want to run out of gas.
Then he went on about that, but I cut him off after a couple stories
because I had to get some sleep.
Don't mind hearing the stories - most the time.

--Vic

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Steve B wrote:

WTF is the deal? It's a plug. Absolutely no torque during operation.
Maybe a little vibration, but that's all.

Like I said in my initial response to you: a torque wrench is used to
prevent overtightening. Tighten the drain plug a bit too much, ruin the
washer. Tighten it a lot too much, damage the threads in the pan.

Is that like a spark plug? Plugs and spark plugs seem to me to be an item
that if one does not know how to insert and tighten properly, they need to
go on to basketweaving, or something. Why would any sane person want to use
a torque wrench on an oil plug? Screw in until it contacts, tighten until
resistance is felt, good to go.

Steve

I won't miss any Sears. None are closing in my states.

Steve

Steve B wrote the following:
I won't miss any Sears. None are closing in my states.

Steve



None here in my state either, Yet?

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

On 12/30/2011 7:32 AM, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:51:16 -0800, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 12/28/2011 9:55 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Frank wrote:

On 12/28/2011 3:05 AM, Existential Angst wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message
...
On 12/27/2011 10:58 PM, oldyork90 wrote:
I'm reading bad news about Sears/KMart. If Sears goes tits up, I hope
they hand off the Craftsman line. I always had good luck with their
hand tools.

Don't worry, some Chinese holding company will buy them out. The new
stores will be Shears and Claymart. ^_^

Or, equivalently, HF will expand.....

From what I read lately, HF tools are probably just as good.

Honestly, I haven't broken any Craftsman or HF hand tool that I wasn't
*seriously* abusing. I have seen Snap-On tools break under comparable
abuse, so I'm not sure there is any real advantage there.

having been an ASE certified master auto/heavy truck technician for over
30 years, i can ASSURE you the only advantage to the snap on / mac tools
is the fact that the man walks right up to you every week without fail
and asks 'what do you need?'. I still, after all these years have
mostly craftsman tools, but when you need something craftsman doesn't
have or tools you just happen to like the feel for better, (i'm thinking
about my flex head bent handled 3/8" drive ratchet that is over a
hundred dollars from snap on) there is the snap on man on Thursdays
about 1 PM. Not to mention they will finance (usually) without any
credit hassles or checks. A lot of the drivers just carry the revolving
accounts themselves.

The big problem IMHO with the Tool Truck Guys like Mac, Snap-On,
Cornwall, etc. is their Rubber Band Pricing - they figure the "Free
Financing" into the 'List' shelf prices, and the mechanics know but
don't care. They needed the $10K of tools on credit *now* when they
got hired, and they get paid back as they complete jobs.

But the average boob off the street doesn't realize how it works, and
gets ripped nicely. And I'll bet even some mechanics that he's dealt
with for decades don't press for a "better credit rating" price or a
"Cash" price when they need a tool.

-- Bruce--

not sure what your experience has been, but mine with snapon and mac is
that the dealer has always given out a complete price list from the
manufacturer, and that IS the price. (except for the occasional sale).

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 12/30/2011 12:14 PM, Steve B wrote:

Is that like a spark plug? Plugs and spark plugs seem to me to be an item
that if one does not know how to insert and tighten properly, they need to
go on to basketweaving, or something.

I guess you should go on to basketweaving or something, then -- since
you don't know that tightening a spark plug properly means using a
torque wrench. The world's changed some in the last thirty years or so,
but you don't seem to have noticed. Most cars don't have iron heads any
more, and the factory service manuals all give torque specifications for
spark plugs.

Why would any sane person want to use
a torque wrench on an oil plug?

For the same reason you use a torque wrench on spark plugs, or on
anything else: to make sure it's tight enough that it won't come apart,
but not so tight as to do damage.

I sure am glad you don't work on my cars. I'd hate to see what happens
when you install spark plugs into an aluminum head, or reassemble an
aluminum transmission housing...

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
sears where america used to shop........

very sad

I agree, it was very sad that Americans used to shop for tools there, at
least for the last 40 years or so. Some decent hand tools and a lot of
overpriced junk, including most Craftsman branded power tools.

notbob wrote:
On 2011-12-30, Vic Smith wrote:
Sears replaced it.
He snapped my 7/8 combo wrench by jumping on it.
Sears replaced it.
His favorite small wrenches are Craftsman and a set of long handle
Pittsburgh from Harbor freight he's had for 6 years.
Says Mac wrenches bend, Craftsman snap.

Nice, if you have Sears within a 100 miles. Not so nice if you
don't.

Says Snap-on flank drive wrenches, which are all they offer now,
round nuts like there's no tomorrow.

Sounds strange, as the whole point (no pun intended) of flank drive is
to engage the flats of the hex so the points are not rounded or
rounded points can still be worked. Is he saying the wrench
intentionally rounds the points so it can work? That's jes silly.

Bonney originally invented the flank design. When the patent expired,
everyone and their dog copied it, even Craftsman. Perhaps not everyone
got it right.

I'd love to hear some of the stories. I have a lifetime of them,
myself. And yes, not all tool companies are good at all tools and a
brand name doesn't ensure quality. One of the cheapest pieces of
Chinese junk I ever paid good money for came off a SnapOn truck. It
broke the first time I used it.


nb


The "new" Craftsman spline drive stuff looks tailor made for rounding
off bolts/nuts.

I tend to buy Snap-on or Mac. Only time I have broken one it was being
VERY abused.

--
Steve W.

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
...Why would any sane person want to use a torque wrench on an oil plug?
Screw in until it contacts, tighten until resistance is felt, good to go.

Steve

Because my experienced sense of "tight enough" fails in awkward positions
under the car. It gets the lug nuts pretty close to spec, though. I worked
on experimental electric vehicles where calibration-stickered torque
wrenches were required and got pretty good at guessing when they were about
to click, as long as I was standing up.

jsw

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 13:00:49 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:

notbob wrote:
On 2011-12-30, Vic Smith wrote:
Sears replaced it.
He snapped my 7/8 combo wrench by jumping on it.
Sears replaced it.
His favorite small wrenches are Craftsman and a set of long handle
Pittsburgh from Harbor freight he's had for 6 years.
Says Mac wrenches bend, Craftsman snap.

Nice, if you have Sears within a 100 miles. Not so nice if you
don't.

Says Snap-on flank drive wrenches, which are all they offer now,
round nuts like there's no tomorrow.

Sounds strange, as the whole point (no pun intended) of flank drive is
to engage the flats of the hex so the points are not rounded or
rounded points can still be worked. Is he saying the wrench
intentionally rounds the points so it can work? That's jes silly.

Bonney originally invented the flank design. When the patent expired,
everyone and their dog copied it, even Craftsman. Perhaps not everyone
got it right.

I'd love to hear some of the stories. I have a lifetime of them,
myself. And yes, not all tool companies are good at all tools and a
brand name doesn't ensure quality. One of the cheapest pieces of
Chinese junk I ever paid good money for came off a SnapOn truck. It
broke the first time I used it.


nb


The "new" Craftsman spline drive stuff looks tailor made for rounding
off bolts/nuts.

I tend to buy Snap-on or Mac. Only time I have broken one it was being
VERY abused.

I like older SK and SK-Wayne and older Craftsman

Got a bunch of em in the drawers

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On 12/30/2011 10:38 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 13:00:49 -0500, "Steve
wrote:

notbob wrote:
On 2011-12-30, Vic wrote:
Sears replaced it.
He snapped my 7/8 combo wrench by jumping on it.
Sears replaced it.
His favorite small wrenches are Craftsman and a set of long handle
Pittsburgh from Harbor freight he's had for 6 years.
Says Mac wrenches bend, Craftsman snap.

Nice, if you have Sears within a 100 miles. Not so nice if you
don't.

Says Snap-on flank drive wrenches, which are all they offer now,
round nuts like there's no tomorrow.

Sounds strange, as the whole point (no pun intended) of flank drive is
to engage the flats of the hex so the points are not rounded or
rounded points can still be worked. Is he saying the wrench
intentionally rounds the points so it can work? That's jes silly.

Bonney originally invented the flank design. When the patent expired,
everyone and their dog copied it, even Craftsman. Perhaps not everyone
got it right.

I'd love to hear some of the stories. I have a lifetime of them,
myself. And yes, not all tool companies are good at all tools and a
brand name doesn't ensure quality. One of the cheapest pieces of
Chinese junk I ever paid good money for came off a SnapOn truck. It
broke the first time I used it.


nb


The "new" Craftsman spline drive stuff looks tailor made for rounding
off bolts/nuts.

I tend to buy Snap-on or Mac. Only time I have broken one it was being
VERY abused.

I like older SK and SK-Wayne and older Craftsman

Got a bunch of gerbils in my drawers

Gunner

That's disgusting. Keep that kind of thing to yourself, ****bag.

On Dec 30, 12:38*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:


I like older SK *and SK-Wayne and older Craftsman

Got a bunch of em in the drawers

Gunner


I have a bench grinder and dual sander from Craftsman and these are 45
or so yrs old. You can use them for hours and they just get
warm...never hot! Try that with today's tools!

I to have some SK, Craftsman, and Thorsen, old stuff that I value!

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 13:00:49 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:

The "new" Craftsman spline drive stuff looks tailor made for rounding
off bolts/nuts.

I tend to buy Snap-on or Mac. Only time I have broken one it was being
VERY abused.

I like older SK and SK-Wayne and older Craftsman

Got a bunch of em in the drawers

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

SK are good but not real available around here. Got a Mac guy and a new
Snap-On guy that stop by.
That reminds me I have to grab a new tool catalog when he visits.

--
Steve W.

On 2011-12-30, Gunner Asch wrote:



I like older SK and SK-Wayne and older Craftsman

Yep. I ran across S-K tools about 40 yrs ago at a flea market. Some
of the best tools ever made. I don't know about now, though. Haven't
bought any new tools in yrs. When I do, it's a known quality tool.
Klein, Fluke, Bonney when I can find 'em, Williams, etc.

I'm not above buying a cheapo tool on occassion. I bought two heavy
duty jack stands and a 3 ton floor jack, all made in China, for cheap.
The were better made than similar US made products at 4X the price.
And yes, I have bought items at HF. Depends on the need and use.

nb

--
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

NY, second only to CA in taxes. Seems like they would close a few in NYS?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Steve B wrote the following:
I won't miss any Sears. None are closing in my states.

Steve



None here in my state either, Yet?

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
On 12/30/2011 12:14 PM, Steve B wrote:

Is that like a spark plug? Plugs and spark plugs seem to me to be an
item
that if one does not know how to insert and tighten properly, they need
to
go on to basketweaving, or something.

I guess you should go on to basketweaving or something, then -- since you
don't know that tightening a spark plug properly means using a torque
wrench. The world's changed some in the last thirty years or so, but you
don't seem to have noticed. Most cars don't have iron heads any more, and
the factory service manuals all give torque specifications for spark
plugs.

Why would any sane person want to use
a torque wrench on an oil plug?

For the same reason you use a torque wrench on spark plugs, or on anything
else: to make sure it's tight enough that it won't come apart, but not so
tight as to do damage.

I sure am glad you don't work on my cars. I'd hate to see what happens
when you install spark plugs into an aluminum head, or reassemble an
aluminum transmission housing...

I guess I am old school. Little things mean a lot to a "real" mechanic.
Like when the threads bottom out. Like when it feels "tight". Like when it
feels like it's 1/4 turn past "tight". Like sometimes when even the factory
specs are way past the point of failure.

I'll continue with my "feel" way of doing things, and I will leave those to
their "factory settings", and bet you a cheeseburger that I have fewer
failures or overreefing of threads.

YMMV, IMHO, and all that crap.

Reality is nature's way of keeping things straight.

Helicoils were made for a reason.................................

Steve

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Steve B wrote the following:
I won't miss any Sears. None are closing in my states.

Steve

None here in my state either, Yet?

--
Bill


By the time the availability of Sears tools is a problem, I believe there
will be a S-E-R-I-O-U-S problem about the availability of potatoes and milk.

Steve

On Dec 30, 5:12*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"willshak" wrote in message

m...

Steve B wrote the following:
I won't miss any Sears. *None are closing in my states.

Steve

None here in my state either, Yet?

--
Bill

By the time the availability of Sears tools is a problem, I believe there
will be a S-E-R-I-O-U-S problem about the availability of potatoes and milk.

Steve

Why potatoes...particularly?

On 12/30/2011 6:08 PM, Steve B wrote:
"Doug wrote in message
...
On 12/30/2011 12:14 PM, Steve B wrote:

Is that like a spark plug? Plugs and spark plugs seem to me to be an
item
that if one does not know how to insert and tighten properly, they need
to
go on to basketweaving, or something.

I guess you should go on to basketweaving or something, then -- since you
don't know that tightening a spark plug properly means using a torque
wrench. The world's changed some in the last thirty years or so, but you
don't seem to have noticed. Most cars don't have iron heads any more, and
the factory service manuals all give torque specifications for spark
plugs.

Why would any sane person want to use
a torque wrench on an oil plug?

For the same reason you use a torque wrench on spark plugs, or on anything
else: to make sure it's tight enough that it won't come apart, but not so
tight as to do damage.

I sure am glad you don't work on my cars. I'd hate to see what happens
when you install spark plugs into an aluminum head, or reassemble an
aluminum transmission housing...

I guess I am old school. Little things mean a lot to a "real" mechanic.
Like when the threads bottom out. Like when it feels "tight". Like when it
feels like it's 1/4 turn past "tight". Like sometimes when even the factory
specs are way past the point of failure.

I'll continue with my "feel" way of doing things, and I will leave those to
their "factory settings", and bet you a cheeseburger that I have fewer
failures or overreefing of threads.

You're on.

YMMV, IMHO, and all that crap.

Reality is nature's way of keeping things straight.

Helicoils were made for a reason.................................

Yes, they were. They were made because of "mechanics" like you.

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

When someone asks me for a job, I ask if they have experience, when they
say they do, I ask how much stuff have you broken or burned up.
If they say none, I know they're lying and have no experience. I tell
them I need someone who's already burned up thousands of dollars worth
of equipment some place else and learned from their mistakes. ^_^

Experience is gained proportional to the amount of equipment ruined.

--
Bobby G.

"Steve Barker" wrote in message

Ever see the movie "Miami Blues?" There's a great scene about dealing
with
the HK's in airports.

yeah, there's a scene in AIRPLANE showing how to deal with them also.

FWIW, here's why they really vanished from airports:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/krishna/krishna1.html

Hare Krishna airport solicitations curtailed
USA Today/February 22, 1999

Washington -- The Supreme Court on Monday refused to let Hare Krishnas
solicit donations or sell religious literature at Miami International
Airport. The court rejected an appeal that argued such restrictions violate
free-speech rights.

I must have been out of the country when that decision came down. I don't
remember it all but even as a free speech advocate, I can't say I am sorry.
They were really pains in the ass.

--
Bobby G.

On 2011-12-30, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/30/2011 2:18 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:11:06 -0800, Delvin ýt wrote:

[ ... ]

Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11

Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....

Blink blink...Chinese tools...they dont have the same Label..no they
certainly dont.

They clearly are materially different.

Prove it.

You proved it yourself. Did you even look at the links you posted?
They're *obviously* not the same.

*I* looked at them. The differences (as well as could be told
from the rather poor photos on one of the sites) are the kind of things
which makers (Chinese in this case) customize for their customers, who
are who is trying to sell them to you. The paint color on the frame is
different. The markings on the thermal insulator grip pads are
different (silk-screening). The shapes of the pads are different (since
the pads are mounted by visible screws, they are easy to change).

Similarities: -- overall shape, mechanical digital readout
shape, thumbscrew for locking the spindle instead of various cam
actuated locking rings used by other makers, ratchet torque limiter on
the thimble speeder instead of a friction thimble (though the same maker
can provide models with both styles of torque limiters -- I know that
Brown & Sharpe did at one time.)

These are similar enough in what matters to say that both were
made by either the same factory, or to a standard pattern by multiple
small factories as is common in China.

And -- these look very much like the made-in-China ones sold by
vendors at hamfests, too.

Oh yes -- the prices are vastly different -- but that simply
says that Sears appears to be trying to give the impression of more
quality by boosting the price. :-)

And sears appears to be selling this for checking the wear of
disk brakes and for no other purpose, which might account for the higher
price, too.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---