On 2011-12-31, Robert Green wrote:

They were really pains in the ass.

I was once snowed in at Univ of Buffalo. I wasn't a student, jes
someone trying to get back to CA and knew the UB student union bldg
had a ride board and figured I could snag riders to help with gas
costs. While camped in my car in the UB parking lot during the worst
blizzard in yrs, and having little money, the campus HKs fed me. They
asked for no money and didn't preach to me. Jes offered to feed me
for free. The macrobiotic food pretty much sucked, but it was free
and filling. HKs are OK in my book.

nb

--
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

In article , ýt
says...

On 12/29/2011 3:30 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:05:12 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 10:12 AM, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
On 12/29/2011 2:20 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

I carried a mechanical digital 1" mic in my truck for years. I
picked it
up at HF for ..hummm $19

I was visiting a customer and he just had to show me an identical
mechanical digital 1" mic from Sears, he has paid $109 for.

Bull****

What was your first clue?


Sorry guys..its the truth.

http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-...meter-895.html


http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...lo ckType=G11


Notice its marked down from $68?..thats 300% markup even there

Notice they're not the same brand....

They clearly are different.

FWIW, I have a dial indicator that I got at the Snap-On warehouse in
Jacksonville, Florida, in 1969 (yes, they actually had a counter where
you could buy stuff). It is from "Central Tools" and has the same logo
as shown in the Sears listing. Meanwhile, if you check the current
Snap-On catalog they show micrometers from "Blue Point, Country of
Origin: China".

On 12/30/2011 8:03 PM, Robert Green wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

When someone asks me for a job, I ask if they have experience, when they
say they do, I ask how much stuff have you broken or burned up.
If they say none, I know they're lying and have no experience. I tell
them I need someone who's already burned up thousands of dollars worth
of equipment some place else and learned from their mistakes. ^_^

Experience is gained proportional to the amount of equipment ruined.

--
Bobby G.


I've broken a lot of stuff starting before the age of five. I was always
getting into trouble for taking things apart to see how they
worked. I think I was about six when I dismantled a tube type radio,
the result was my butt hurt for a long while afterwards. ^_^

TDD

On 12/29/2011 12:22 PM, joevan wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:37:22 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 6:58 AM, joevan wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 23:38:26 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/28/2011 8:28 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Please define "cult" for me.


Isn't that the past tense of going through and throwing out the too
small and bad fish, shrimp or clams. ^_^

TDD
Seems logical but I think it be culled?

I was thinking of Hillbilly English. ^_^

TDD
Oh, then you might like this page.
http://www.wvculture.org/history/jou...h/wvh30-2.html

I am a native of Alabamastan who grew up in the hills of the
Northeastern part of the state which is the tail end of The Appalachian
Mountain Range. I lived the stuff but don't have a Hillbilly accent.
It may have something to do with my mixed species heritage and the fact
that both my parents taught college at one time or another and most of
my paternal aunts here in The Southeast were schoolteachers. I'm also
half Brooklyn Italian and half Bama Hillbilly plus I had psychotic nuns
for teachers when I was a small boy. When I was in the second grade, the
Catholic Parochial Gulag imported a contingent of Irish nuns to abuse us
so I got another dialectal influence. I'm able to switch between a
myriad of dialects and have often served as a translator for many of my
less enlightened friends, it can be quite entertaining at times. ^_^

TDD

On Dec 30, 11:21*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
snip
less enlightened friends, it can be quite entertaining at times. ^_^

TDD

Sounds like all this "abuse" didn't effect your pride! 8^) I too
had nuns for teachers (in the 50's) and for the most part were
excellent teachers. I also ruined a tube radio (one of the original
"portables" like a suitcase with huge batteries) an RCA Victor. I and
my brother found my dad's WWII hand-made and painted war planes...and
threw them around to see if they would fly! Ouch!
I basically became a mechanic (NCR electro-mechanical stuff) and later
electronics.

"Doug Miller" wrote

Helicoils were made for a reason.................................

Yes, they were. They were made because of "mechanics" like you.

Odd. I have never ever bought or used one. And I am 66, and have been
working on gasoline motors since I was 12.

Steve

Steve B wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote

Helicoils were made for a reason.................................
Yes, they were. They were made because of "mechanics" like you.

Odd. I have never ever bought or used one. And I am 66, and have been
working on gasoline motors since I was 12.

Steve


Actually Heli-Coils were developed for a very good reason. Aluminum
doesn't hold threads very well when stressed.

--
Steve W.

On 12/31/2011 7:47 AM, Bob_Villa wrote:
On Dec 30, 11:21 pm, The Daring
wrote:
snip
less enlightened friends, it can be quite entertaining at times. ^_^

TDD

Sounds like all this "abuse" didn't effect your pride! 8^) I too
had nuns for teachers (in the 50's) and for the most part were
excellent teachers. I also ruined a tube radio (one of the original
"portables" like a suitcase with huge batteries) an RCA Victor. I and
my brother found my dad's WWII hand-made and painted war planes...and
threw them around to see if they would fly! Ouch!
I basically became a mechanic (NCR electro-mechanical stuff) and later
electronics.


Because of the Irish nuns, I have no fear of terrorists. Nothing scares
me except albino penguins for some odd reason. o_O

TDD

"Steve W." wrote

Actually Heli-Coils were developed for a very good reason. Aluminum
doesn't hold threads very well when stressed.

--
Steve W.

You actually think a 1/2" drive torque wrench is overkill for a sparkplug in
an aluminum head? ;-)

I rest my case, your honor.

Steve

"The Daring Dufas" wrote

Because of the Irish nuns, I have no fear of terrorists. Nothing scares me
except albino penguins for some odd reason. o_O

TDD

Grunt to DI, "You don't scare me. I went to Catholic school."

Steve

Steve B wrote the following:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Steve B wrote:

WTF is the deal? It's a plug. Absolutely no torque during operation.
Maybe a little vibration, but that's all.
Like I said in my initial response to you: a torque wrench is used to
prevent overtightening. Tighten the drain plug a bit too much, ruin the
washer. Tighten it a lot too much, damage the threads in the pan.

Is that like a spark plug? Plugs and spark plugs seem to me to be an item
that if one does not know how to insert and tighten properly, they need to
go on to basketweaving, or something. Why would any sane person want to use
a torque wrench on an oil plug? Screw in until it contacts, tighten until
resistance is felt, good to go.

Steve

Actually, a torque wrench is the correct way to tighten a spark plug in
an engine.
A torque wrench was not designed to overtighten a bolt. It was designed
to prevent overtightening of the bolt when using the manufacturer's
tightness specification.
Look it up.



--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 13:13:12 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"The Daring Dufas" wrote

Because of the Irish nuns, I have no fear of terrorists. Nothing scares me
except albino penguins for some odd reason. o_O

TDD

Grunt to DI, "You don't scare me. I went to Catholic school."

Steve


DI to grunt... don't go down into Nashville and get your ass in
trouble wid the ga dang law, 'cause I ain't gonna get your
ga-da-danga-ass out of jail.

....memories, ah!

Happy New Year!!

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:15:01 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 11:10 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2011-12-29, Doug wrote:

What was your first clue?

That Sears has the slightest inkling of what a micrometer is?

Apparently you're unaware that Sears sells micrometers.

Perhaps, or perhaps not. Because Sears sells something doesn't mean they have
the first clue about what it is. ...more likely the opposite.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 14:22:52 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 29, 4:45*pm, Matt wrote:




I bought a big Craftsman tool set a year ago. *The quarter-inch ratchet
didn't ratchet. *The 3/8" open-end wrench was too small to fit around a
3/8" hex. *The rolled label on one of the Torx bits was all messed up.
The labels on the sockets are barely readable.


I trust you took those tools back to Sears. How did they treat you?

Irrelevant. The tools aren't the same as they were.

On 12/31/2011 06:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:15:01 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 11:10 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2011-12-29, Doug wrote:

What was your first clue?

That Sears has the slightest inkling of what a micrometer is?

Apparently you're unaware that Sears sells micrometers.

Perhaps, or perhaps not. Because Sears sells something doesn't mean they have
the first clue about what it is. ...more likely the opposite.


Ain't that the truth. I was in a Sears with a friend a while back and
they had a little display with a thread restorer thingy that looked like
the feline's posterior. Asked the guy if they had any for sale, he said
"we're all out, but the store (somewhere 10 miles away) have three in
stock." So we went over there, armed with the SKU and everything, and
man, were they ever confused... system said they had three, but damned
if they knew where they were, or what they were... but I'd copied down
the brand name of the thing so I could just go home and order it online.
Which is what I find myself doing with a lot of stuff.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Dec 31, 12:16*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote

Helicoils were made for a reason.................................

Yes, they were. They were made because of "mechanics" like you.

Odd. *I have never ever bought or used one. *And I am 66, and have been
working on gasoline motors since I was 12.

Steve

Amazing, also 66! 12/26/45

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 19:32:39 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 19:54:14 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Vic Smith wrote:

Same with plums.
Bought about 6 plums at a fruit store.
Most delicious plums I ever had.
So 2 days later I bought an entire case at the same place.
Different lot. They sucked big time and I tossed nearly all of them.


That will teach you not to eat an entire case of plums at once. ;-)

Hey. I engaged a conversation.

The guy believed in prune trees ....

Prune come from ...

....and we all know where they go. ...particularly an entire case! "Sorry,
gotta run!"

On 12/31/2011 3:13 PM, Steve B wrote:
"The Daring wrote

Because of the Irish nuns, I have no fear of terrorists. Nothing scares me
except albino penguins for some odd reason. o_O

TDD

Grunt to DI, "You don't scare me. I went to Catholic school."

Steve


When I was a child, the method of controlling the behavior of children
was the use of terror by adults and other authority figures. It's no
great surprise that it's the same sort of thing used to control the
population of many Middle Eastern countries. ^_^

TDD

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 20:45:13 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:08:33 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Stormin Mormon wrote:

Sorry you got a bad Crapsman. I've had plenty of bad tools from HF,
including some Pittsburgh flare wrenches that didn't turn flare fittings.
Too loose, they slipped. Your reversible, you maybe could have filed the
burr down? I also had a full pack of AA batteries (alkalines) from HF leak
in the box. My HF electric plug in impact wrench, the switch is flaky, it
loosens but doesn't tighten.


I bought a plastic pack of those about two years ago, and have nine
left. I use them in wireless mice that are on 16 hours a day.


What mice? I've been using Logitech wireless since they first came
out. Not anything fancy, just typical 3-button. Laser now.
Light is always on.
Always wish they had an on/off switch to save the batteries.
Using rechargeable, but it's a hassle changing batteries out pretty
often, maybe every 10 days or so.

I have a couple of the Logitech MX mice, with rechargeable AA batteries and
chargers. It's a perfect combination. The mice just get "hung up" after use
and the batteries are replaceable. Both have had one new set of batteries in
their life. I also have a few of the wireless mini-mice. While they're not
rechargeable, at least Logitech had sense enough to use standard AA batteries.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:09:35 -0500, "J. Clarke" wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 12/28/2011 8:45 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:08:33 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Stormin Mormon wrote:

Sorry you got a bad Crapsman. I've had plenty of bad tools from HF,
including some Pittsburgh flare wrenches that didn't turn flare fittings.
Too loose, they slipped. Your reversible, you maybe could have filed the
burr down? I also had a full pack of AA batteries (alkalines) from HF leak
in the box. My HF electric plug in impact wrench, the switch is flaky, it
loosens but doesn't tighten.


I bought a plastic pack of those about two years ago, and have nine
left. I use them in wireless mice that are on 16 hours a day.


What mice? I've been using Logitech wireless since they first came
out. Not anything fancy, just typical 3-button. Laser now.
Light is always on.
Always wish they had an on/off switch to save the batteries.
Using rechargeable, but it's a hassle changing batteries out pretty
often, maybe every 10 days or so.

--Vic



I have some wireless Logitech mouse/keyboard sets and the keyboard
batteries last much longer. I want a wireless mouse with a recharging
dock, it would make more sense. ^_^

Logitech's latest wireless mice have a mini-USB charging connector. You
don't have to stop using them to charge them. I found docks to be a
nuisance.

How so? I just hang mine up after use. It's automatic.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:22:10 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:54:51 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 08:39 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:09:35 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


Logitech's latest wireless mice have a mini-USB charging connector. You
don't have to stop using them to charge them. I found docks to be a
nuisance.

One of my kids gave me one with a docking port.
Plenty of desk space, so the dock didn't bother me.
But I didn't like the shape of the mouse, so I gave it back.
Also tried one of those similar to what Nate mentioned.
Didn't like the shape.
Always used the common "teardrop" shaped
Think I'm just going to have to adjust to a new shape to go to a dock
or one with an off/on switch.
Or just keep changing batteries.
Don't know why my batteries last only about 10 days.
Doesn't matter what brand.
I do a lot of gaming so the mouse is always moving then.
Don't know if a moving mouse consumes more juice than an idle one.

--Vic

Probably. they tend to have a "sleep" mode.

My problem is I have big hands, like a big mouse, but don't like cords.
When all my old mice started dying I researched
obsessive-compulsively. I bought a Cyborg RAT7 which is actually corded
but had some other features that I liked, and the Performance Mouse MX.
The RAT7 was my favorite and had a real light, "limp" cord so it
wasn't too offensive. It died after two months of use I'm still
using the PMMX at home but miss the "pinky shelf" of the RAT. Need to
find a new mouse to take to work; right now I'm using a Dell OEM mouse
that I stole from the IT guy and it's ****ing me off with how cheap and
nasty it is (especially compared to my Filco keyboard... hey, I figure
if I'm going to spend at least half and often all of my working day in
front of a computer, I might as well not be ****ed off by my input devices.)

nate

Pick up a decent trackball and you wont go back

I hate 'em. My fingers won't take a trackball; very bad ergonomics.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:19:32 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Vic Smith wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:08:33 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
? wrote:

?
?Stormin Mormon wrote:
??
?? Sorry you got a bad Crapsman. I've had plenty of bad tools from HF,
?? including some Pittsburgh flare wrenches that didn't turn flare fittings.
?? Too loose, they slipped. Your reversible, you maybe could have filed the
?? burr down? I also had a full pack of AA batteries (alkalines) from HF leak
?? in the box. My HF electric plug in impact wrench, the switch is flaky, it
?? loosens but doesn't tighten.
?
?
? I bought a plastic pack of those about two years ago, and have nine
?left. I use them in wireless mice that are on 16 hours a day.
?

What mice? I've been using Logitech wireless since they first came
out. Not anything fancy, just typical 3-button. Laser now.
Light is always on.
Always wish they had an on/off switch to save the batteries.
Using rechargeable, but it's a hassle changing batteries out pretty
often, maybe every 10 days or so.


I use a Logitech M215, and it has a power switch. I have another, a
Logitech V220 that also has a switch. It was made for a laptop. When
you store the reciver on the bottom it automatically turns off. You can
also turn it off by hand. I've been using the same HF Alkaline AA cells
in both mice. Neither is a LASER mouse.

I had a couple of those. The receiver kept falling off the bottom when in the
case, and the batteries were always dead. I like the newer ones (M205/M505)
much better. They have a "nano receiver" (never have to take it out of the
USB port) and a switch to turn them off. There is a carrying slot for the
receiver, if you don't want to keep it in the system. OfficeMax just had the
M205 on sale for $15 and the M505 for $20.

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
Steve B wrote the following:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Steve B wrote:

WTF is the deal? It's a plug. Absolutely no torque during operation.
Maybe a little vibration, but that's all.
Like I said in my initial response to you: a torque wrench is used to
prevent overtightening. Tighten the drain plug a bit too much, ruin the
washer. Tighten it a lot too much, damage the threads in the pan.

Is that like a spark plug? Plugs and spark plugs seem to me to be an
item that if one does not know how to insert and tighten properly, they
need to go on to basketweaving, or something. Why would any sane person
want to use a torque wrench on an oil plug? Screw in until it contacts,
tighten until resistance is felt, good to go.

Steve

Actually, a torque wrench is the correct way to tighten a spark plug in an
engine.
A torque wrench was not designed to overtighten a bolt. It was designed to
prevent overtightening of the bolt when using the manufacturer's tightness
specification.
Look it up.



--
Bill

Holy crap! All these years, I thought it was a baseline. X# of torque,
plus 1/8 turn (just because that's the way Grumpa did it), then a little
more just in case the unexpected happened.

I'll stick with the bottoming out of threads, then 1/8 turn or so, relying
on my massive intellect and intuitive powers, and decades of experience. So
far, I have NEVER EVER NOT ONCE IN MY LIFE twisted off a spark plug.

We are only talking about spark plugs here, right? ;-) I cannot bespeak of
inferior metallurgy, mislabeled bolts, nor incidents where it was plainly
NOT my fault.

Isn't that why easy-outs and oxy/acet rigs were invented? Every Christmas,
there seems to be some new invention to get out stripped out fasteners. I
hear now there's even one for getting out a stripped Phillips. If you can't
get one of those out, please turn in your tools to the tool shack
......................

Steve

Steve

That Sears has the slightest inkling of what a micrometer is?

Apparently you're unaware that Sears sells micrometers.

I went two days ago and asked for a T handled nut driver. You would have
thought I asked for a plasma quark oscilloscope.

Sometimes, it is a joy to find a person (male or female or ?) who actually
knows tools. For those other times, you want to ask them if their Mommy
stapled their bus pass on the inside of their underwear so they wouldn't
lose it.

Steve

On 12/31/2011 07:24 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:19:32 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Vic Smith wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:08:33 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
? wrote:

?
?Stormin Mormon wrote:
??
?? Sorry you got a bad Crapsman. I've had plenty of bad tools from HF,
?? including some Pittsburgh flare wrenches that didn't turn flare fittings.
?? Too loose, they slipped. Your reversible, you maybe could have filed the
?? burr down? I also had a full pack of AA batteries (alkalines) from HF leak
?? in the box. My HF electric plug in impact wrench, the switch is flaky, it
?? loosens but doesn't tighten.
?
?
? I bought a plastic pack of those about two years ago, and have nine
?left. I use them in wireless mice that are on 16 hours a day.
?

What mice? I've been using Logitech wireless since they first came
out. Not anything fancy, just typical 3-button. Laser now.
Light is always on.
Always wish they had an on/off switch to save the batteries.
Using rechargeable, but it's a hassle changing batteries out pretty
often, maybe every 10 days or so.


I use a Logitech M215, and it has a power switch. I have another, a
Logitech V220 that also has a switch. It was made for a laptop. When
you store the reciver on the bottom it automatically turns off. You can
also turn it off by hand. I've been using the same HF Alkaline AA cells
in both mice. Neither is a LASER mouse.

I had a couple of those. The receiver kept falling off the bottom when in the
case, and the batteries were always dead. I like the newer ones (M205/M505)
much better. They have a "nano receiver" (never have to take it out of the
USB port) and a switch to turn them off. There is a carrying slot for the
receiver, if you don't want to keep it in the system. OfficeMax just had the
M205 on sale for $15 and the M505 for $20.

yeah, those seem to work well. Only thing I don't like about them is
they're just too blame small for my hands. I think the V220 must be the
one that I used to use, I still have one, can't find a model number on
it anywhere though. It's too blame small too. The Performance Mouse MX
fits my hand nicely although my pinky still drags on the desk, and I
don't like the scroll wheel as well as the older ones - the two mode
wheel is nice, but the side-side push of it feels like garbage, even
though this is supposed to be a high end mouse?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 2012-01-01, Steve B wrote:

Holy crap! All these years, I thought it was a baseline. X# of torque,
plus 1/8 turn (just because that's the way Grumpa did it), then a little
more just in case the unexpected happened.

You and gramps were WRONG!

Torque specs are based on several variables, but the purpose of torque
specs are the same. It's to take the fastener to the elongation
(stretch) point where the fastener will hold without coming loose. A
properly torqued fastener does not need a lock washer to prevent it
from loosening. It has been tightened to that fine point where the
threads will not deform or fail, yet are held in enough tension that
they will not loosen by themself.

Of course, this is under ideal and/or stable conditions and does not
take into account severe vibration or heat/cold contraction/expansion.
It also applies to bolts that are of certain materials, like grade 8
hardened bolts. Softer material fasteners are why lock washers or
other supplimentary devices (Loctite, lock nuts, etc) are sometimes
called for.

Regardless of the variables, when torque specs are provided, you do
NOT go "plus 1/8 turn".

As for sparkplugs, all sparkplugs have a compressible washer and it
should be replaced with a new one every single time a sparkplug is
removed, wether or not you are putting back the old spark plug or not.
If not, jes tighten till tight. Don't add an extra 1/8-1/4 turn.
Anohter old trick is always add oil! ....even if jes a couple drops
from the dirty crankcase dipstick. Also, Helicoils are OK if you
can't do better or have limited material dia to drill out, but key
inserts, like Keenserts, are a better product. Helicoil has had
quality issues and I've had to remove a bunch of 'em when it was
discovered a batch was defective.

nb

--
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:54:26 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:

On 12/31/2011 07:24 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:19:32 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Vic Smith wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:08:33 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
? wrote:

?
?Stormin Mormon wrote:
??
?? Sorry you got a bad Crapsman. I've had plenty of bad tools from HF,
?? including some Pittsburgh flare wrenches that didn't turn flare fittings.
?? Too loose, they slipped. Your reversible, you maybe could have filed the
?? burr down? I also had a full pack of AA batteries (alkalines) from HF leak
?? in the box. My HF electric plug in impact wrench, the switch is flaky, it
?? loosens but doesn't tighten.
?
?
? I bought a plastic pack of those about two years ago, and have nine
?left. I use them in wireless mice that are on 16 hours a day.
?

What mice? I've been using Logitech wireless since they first came
out. Not anything fancy, just typical 3-button. Laser now.
Light is always on.
Always wish they had an on/off switch to save the batteries.
Using rechargeable, but it's a hassle changing batteries out pretty
often, maybe every 10 days or so.


I use a Logitech M215, and it has a power switch. I have another, a
Logitech V220 that also has a switch. It was made for a laptop. When
you store the reciver on the bottom it automatically turns off. You can
also turn it off by hand. I've been using the same HF Alkaline AA cells
in both mice. Neither is a LASER mouse.

I had a couple of those. The receiver kept falling off the bottom when in the
case, and the batteries were always dead. I like the newer ones (M205/M505)
much better. They have a "nano receiver" (never have to take it out of the
USB port) and a switch to turn them off. There is a carrying slot for the
receiver, if you don't want to keep it in the system. OfficeMax just had the
M205 on sale for $15 and the M505 for $20.

yeah, those seem to work well. Only thing I don't like about them is
they're just too blame small for my hands. I think the V220 must be the
one that I used to use, I still have one, can't find a model number on
it anywhere though. It's too blame small too. The Performance Mouse MX
fits my hand nicely although my pinky still drags on the desk, and I
don't like the scroll wheel as well as the older ones - the two mode
wheel is nice, but the side-side push of it feels like garbage, even
though this is supposed to be a high end mouse?

The small mice are for mobile use (I *hate* the pads - tracks sticks aren't
too bad). At home (and work) I have full-sized MX (600? and 1000) mice. I
don't use the additional buttons, though, just the two plus the scroll wheel.
I've had the larger mice for at least five years.

notbob wrote:
On 2012-01-01, Steve B wrote:
Holy crap! All these years, I thought it was a baseline. X# of torque,
plus 1/8 turn (just because that's the way Grumpa did it), then a little
more just in case the unexpected happened.

You and gramps were WRONG!

Torque specs are based on several variables, but the purpose of torque
specs are the same. It's to take the fastener to the elongation
(stretch) point where the fastener will hold without coming loose. A
properly torqued fastener does not need a lock washer to prevent it
from loosening. It has been tightened to that fine point where the
threads will not deform or fail, yet are held in enough tension that
they will not loosen by themself.

Of course, this is under ideal and/or stable conditions and does not
take into account severe vibration or heat/cold contraction/expansion.
It also applies to bolts that are of certain materials, like grade 8
hardened bolts. Softer material fasteners are why lock washers or
other supplimentary devices (Loctite, lock nuts, etc) are sometimes
called for.

Regardless of the variables, when torque specs are provided, you do
NOT go "plus 1/8 turn".

As for sparkplugs, all sparkplugs have a compressible washer and it
should be replaced with a new one every single time a sparkplug is
removed, wether or not you are putting back the old spark plug or not.
If not, jes tighten till tight. Don't add an extra 1/8-1/4 turn.
Anohter old trick is always add oil! ....even if jes a couple drops
from the dirty crankcase dipstick. Also, Helicoils are OK if you
can't do better or have limited material dia to drill out, but key
inserts, like Keenserts, are a better product. Helicoil has had
quality issues and I've had to remove a bunch of 'em when it was
discovered a batch was defective.

nb


Compressible washer? You must only work on one make, less than 25% of
the engines out there use a plug washer. The rest use a tapered seat.

Oil is NOT added to a plug for ANY reason. Torque figures for all the
plugs I have seen specify clean and dry. The only ones that don't
usually use some type of never seize or loctite type product.

There are a LOT of different inserts out there. Some makes even specify
the kit you HAVE to use. (Take a look at the Ford Tritons, those have
self changing plugs)

--
Steve W.

On 12/31/2011 08:35 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:54:26 -0500, Nate wrote:

On 12/31/2011 07:24 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:19:32 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Vic Smith wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:08:33 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
? wrote:

?
?Stormin Mormon wrote:
??
?? Sorry you got a bad Crapsman. I've had plenty of bad tools from HF,
?? including some Pittsburgh flare wrenches that didn't turn flare fittings.
?? Too loose, they slipped. Your reversible, you maybe could have filed the
?? burr down? I also had a full pack of AA batteries (alkalines) from HF leak
?? in the box. My HF electric plug in impact wrench, the switch is flaky, it
?? loosens but doesn't tighten.
?
?
? I bought a plastic pack of those about two years ago, and have nine
?left. I use them in wireless mice that are on 16 hours a day.
?

What mice? I've been using Logitech wireless since they first came
out. Not anything fancy, just typical 3-button. Laser now.
Light is always on.
Always wish they had an on/off switch to save the batteries.
Using rechargeable, but it's a hassle changing batteries out pretty
often, maybe every 10 days or so.


I use a Logitech M215, and it has a power switch. I have another, a
Logitech V220 that also has a switch. It was made for a laptop. When
you store the reciver on the bottom it automatically turns off. You can
also turn it off by hand. I've been using the same HF Alkaline AA cells
in both mice. Neither is a LASER mouse.

I had a couple of those. The receiver kept falling off the bottom when in the
case, and the batteries were always dead. I like the newer ones (M205/M505)
much better. They have a "nano receiver" (never have to take it out of the
USB port) and a switch to turn them off. There is a carrying slot for the
receiver, if you don't want to keep it in the system. OfficeMax just had the
M205 on sale for $15 and the M505 for $20.

yeah, those seem to work well. Only thing I don't like about them is
they're just too blame small for my hands. I think the V220 must be the
one that I used to use, I still have one, can't find a model number on
it anywhere though. It's too blame small too. The Performance Mouse MX
fits my hand nicely although my pinky still drags on the desk, and I
don't like the scroll wheel as well as the older ones - the two mode
wheel is nice, but the side-side push of it feels like garbage, even
though this is supposed to be a high end mouse?

The small mice are for mobile use (I *hate* the pads - tracks sticks aren't
too bad). At home (and work) I have full-sized MX (600? and 1000) mice. I
don't use the additional buttons, though, just the two plus the scroll wheel.
I've had the larger mice for at least five years.

The problem is, and it might just be the stores around here, but when
you go into an electronics store looking for a cordless mouse - or even
a mouse in general - they don't stock anything but the small ones aimed
at laptop users, and a few cheapies. So getting a "real" mouse involves
some mail order trial and error. I'm still going through that
process... not sure what my next purchase will be. It'd be nice if
there were a store that I could just drive to and try a variety of mice...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:20:06 -0500, "
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:22:10 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:54:51 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 08:39 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:09:35 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


Logitech's latest wireless mice have a mini-USB charging connector. You
don't have to stop using them to charge them. I found docks to be a
nuisance.

One of my kids gave me one with a docking port.
Plenty of desk space, so the dock didn't bother me.
But I didn't like the shape of the mouse, so I gave it back.
Also tried one of those similar to what Nate mentioned.
Didn't like the shape.
Always used the common "teardrop" shaped
Think I'm just going to have to adjust to a new shape to go to a dock
or one with an off/on switch.
Or just keep changing batteries.
Don't know why my batteries last only about 10 days.
Doesn't matter what brand.
I do a lot of gaming so the mouse is always moving then.
Don't know if a moving mouse consumes more juice than an idle one.

--Vic

Probably. they tend to have a "sleep" mode.

My problem is I have big hands, like a big mouse, but don't like cords.
When all my old mice started dying I researched
obsessive-compulsively. I bought a Cyborg RAT7 which is actually corded
but had some other features that I liked, and the Performance Mouse MX.
The RAT7 was my favorite and had a real light, "limp" cord so it
wasn't too offensive. It died after two months of use I'm still
using the PMMX at home but miss the "pinky shelf" of the RAT. Need to
find a new mouse to take to work; right now I'm using a Dell OEM mouse
that I stole from the IT guy and it's ****ing me off with how cheap and
nasty it is (especially compared to my Filco keyboard... hey, I figure
if I'm going to spend at least half and often all of my working day in
front of a computer, I might as well not be ****ed off by my input devices.)

nate

Pick up a decent trackball and you wont go back

I hate 'em. My fingers won't take a trackball; very bad ergonomics.

Which brand have you tried? Logitech makes the best by far.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-Wir...-/390371025354

I have an earlier usb version of that one..everyone loves it.

This one in fact...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-Tra...-/110798947368

No repeative arm motions..just the thumb and two fingers. And mostly the
thumb and one finger (index)

as you may notice with the ebay trackball offers..they always have 6-15
bids. There is a reason for that.

Gunner


Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

In article , says...

On 12/31/2011 06:26 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:15:01 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 11:10 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2011-12-29, Doug wrote:

What was your first clue?

That Sears has the slightest inkling of what a micrometer is?

Apparently you're unaware that Sears sells micrometers.

Perhaps, or perhaps not. Because Sears sells something doesn't mean they have
the first clue about what it is. ...more likely the opposite.


Ain't that the truth. I was in a Sears with a friend a while back and
they had a little display with a thread restorer thingy that looked like
the feline's posterior. Asked the guy if they had any for sale, he said
"we're all out, but the store (somewhere 10 miles away) have three in
stock." So we went over there, armed with the SKU and everything, and
man, were they ever confused... system said they had three, but damned
if they knew where they were, or what they were... but I'd copied down
the brand name of the thing so I could just go home and order it online.
Which is what I find myself doing with a lot of stuff.

It's a funny thing about these stores--I remember needing some plumbing
fitting or other, checked the Lowes site and found that the nearest
store had a bunch of them in stock. So I went down to the store and
looked for it and didn't find it. I asked at the customer service desk
and they called all over the store and nobody in the store could find
it. So I went home and ordered it online for pickup in that store and
went back and they had it waiting for me. Dunno why they could find it
for an online order but not for somebody standing there in the store.

On 12/31/2011 6:24 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:19:32 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Vic Smith wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:08:33 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
? wrote:

?
?Stormin Mormon wrote:
??
?? Sorry you got a bad Crapsman. I've had plenty of bad tools from HF,
?? including some Pittsburgh flare wrenches that didn't turn flare fittings.
?? Too loose, they slipped. Your reversible, you maybe could have filed the
?? burr down? I also had a full pack of AA batteries (alkalines) from HF leak
?? in the box. My HF electric plug in impact wrench, the switch is flaky, it
?? loosens but doesn't tighten.
?
?
? I bought a plastic pack of those about two years ago, and have nine
?left. I use them in wireless mice that are on 16 hours a day.
?

What mice? I've been using Logitech wireless since they first came
out. Not anything fancy, just typical 3-button. Laser now.
Light is always on.
Always wish they had an on/off switch to save the batteries.
Using rechargeable, but it's a hassle changing batteries out pretty
often, maybe every 10 days or so.


I use a Logitech M215, and it has a power switch. I have another, a
Logitech V220 that also has a switch. It was made for a laptop. When
you store the reciver on the bottom it automatically turns off. You can
also turn it off by hand. I've been using the same HF Alkaline AA cells
in both mice. Neither is a LASER mouse.

I had a couple of those. The receiver kept falling off the bottom when in the
case, and the batteries were always dead. I like the newer ones (M205/M505)
much better. They have a "nano receiver" (never have to take it out of the
USB port) and a switch to turn them off. There is a carrying slot for the
receiver, if you don't want to keep it in the system. OfficeMax just had the
M205 on sale for $15 and the M505 for $20.

We recently finished installing cable, power, Cisco routers and internet
connections in several OfficeMax stores for their new in store computer
repair called "Ctrlcenter". We installed a completely separate
network from their corporate VPN so there is no chance of malware
spreading from the repair department. WiFi hackers would have had lots
of fun if corporate hadn't opted for separation of networks. ^_^

http://www.officemax.com/home/custom.jsp?id=m7100009

http://multivu.prnewswire.com/mnr/officemax/27870/

TDD

" wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:15:01 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 11:10 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2011-12-29, Doug wrote:

What was your first clue?

That Sears has the slightest inkling of what a micrometer is?

Apparently you're unaware that Sears sells micrometers.

Perhaps, or perhaps not. Because Sears sells something doesn't mean they have
the first clue about what it is. ...more likely the opposite.


No kidding. About 25 years ago I needed a rebuild kit for one of
their paint guns. I had the manual that it came with, and was told they
had never made that model. As I was leaving the tool department I found
the kit hanging a few isles from the air tools so I took one back to the
parts counter to show it to them, and was told that they didn't sell
that kit!


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"J. Clarke" wrote:

It's a funny thing about these stores--I remember needing some plumbing
fitting or other, checked the Lowes site and found that the nearest
store had a bunch of them in stock. So I went down to the store and
looked for it and didn't find it. I asked at the customer service desk
and they called all over the store and nobody in the store could find
it. So I went home and ordered it online for pickup in that store and
went back and they had it waiting for me. Dunno why they could find it
for an online order but not for somebody standing there in the store.


They probably found it in the stockroom, or it was still on a truck
when you were there.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Steve B wrote:

I won't miss any Sears. None are closing in my states.


I stopped at a Kmart today to find the building empty, and for
lease. The only Sears store in the area is the anchor at a mall. They
have a seperate parts depot for the area, in an old warehouse.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

" wrote:

I had a couple of those. The receiver kept falling off the bottom when in the
case, and the batteries were always dead. I like the newer ones (M205/M505)
much better. They have a "nano receiver" (never have to take it out of the
USB port) and a switch to turn them off. There is a carrying slot for the
receiver, if you don't want to keep it in the system. OfficeMax just had the
M205 on sale for $15 and the M505 for $20.


This Logitech M215 has a "nano receiver", and is a full sized mouse.
it has held up the longest of any mouse I've ever tried. The worst was
a Phillips. It failed within five minutes of opening the package. It
was a sample I bought, when I owned a computer store. I had bought
about a dozen mice of various brands and models to test, before adding
them to the inventory. About half were unacceptable, but it was the
only one that fell apart.



--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 18:33:33 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:20:06 -0500, "
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 23:22:10 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:54:51 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 08:39 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:09:35 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:


Logitech's latest wireless mice have a mini-USB charging connector. You
don't have to stop using them to charge them. I found docks to be a
nuisance.

One of my kids gave me one with a docking port.
Plenty of desk space, so the dock didn't bother me.
But I didn't like the shape of the mouse, so I gave it back.
Also tried one of those similar to what Nate mentioned.
Didn't like the shape.
Always used the common "teardrop" shaped
Think I'm just going to have to adjust to a new shape to go to a dock
or one with an off/on switch.
Or just keep changing batteries.
Don't know why my batteries last only about 10 days.
Doesn't matter what brand.
I do a lot of gaming so the mouse is always moving then.
Don't know if a moving mouse consumes more juice than an idle one.

--Vic

Probably. they tend to have a "sleep" mode.

My problem is I have big hands, like a big mouse, but don't like cords.
When all my old mice started dying I researched
obsessive-compulsively. I bought a Cyborg RAT7 which is actually corded
but had some other features that I liked, and the Performance Mouse MX.
The RAT7 was my favorite and had a real light, "limp" cord so it
wasn't too offensive. It died after two months of use I'm still
using the PMMX at home but miss the "pinky shelf" of the RAT. Need to
find a new mouse to take to work; right now I'm using a Dell OEM mouse
that I stole from the IT guy and it's ****ing me off with how cheap and
nasty it is (especially compared to my Filco keyboard... hey, I figure
if I'm going to spend at least half and often all of my working day in
front of a computer, I might as well not be ****ed off by my input devices.)

nate

Pick up a decent trackball and you wont go back

I hate 'em. My fingers won't take a trackball; very bad ergonomics.

Which brand have you tried? Logitech makes the best by far.

Logitech.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-Wir...-/390371025354

I have an earlier usb version of that one..everyone loves it.

This one in fact...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Logitech-Tra...-/110798947368

No repeative arm motions..just the thumb and two fingers. And mostly the
thumb and one finger (index)

The arm isn't the problem. It's the awkward finger position and repetitive
finger motion. I'd *rather* move the whole arm. It's the fingers and wrist
that are the problem.

as you may notice with the ebay trackball offers..they always have 6-15
bids. There is a reason for that.

Why do you need that many? ;-)

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 21:02:54 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:

On 12/31/2011 08:35 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:54:26 -0500, Nate wrote:

On 12/31/2011 07:24 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:19:32 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Vic Smith wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:08:33 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
? wrote:

?
?Stormin Mormon wrote:
??
?? Sorry you got a bad Crapsman. I've had plenty of bad tools from HF,
?? including some Pittsburgh flare wrenches that didn't turn flare fittings.
?? Too loose, they slipped. Your reversible, you maybe could have filed the
?? burr down? I also had a full pack of AA batteries (alkalines) from HF leak
?? in the box. My HF electric plug in impact wrench, the switch is flaky, it
?? loosens but doesn't tighten.
?
?
? I bought a plastic pack of those about two years ago, and have nine
?left. I use them in wireless mice that are on 16 hours a day.
?

What mice? I've been using Logitech wireless since they first came
out. Not anything fancy, just typical 3-button. Laser now.
Light is always on.
Always wish they had an on/off switch to save the batteries.
Using rechargeable, but it's a hassle changing batteries out pretty
often, maybe every 10 days or so.


I use a Logitech M215, and it has a power switch. I have another, a
Logitech V220 that also has a switch. It was made for a laptop. When
you store the reciver on the bottom it automatically turns off. You can
also turn it off by hand. I've been using the same HF Alkaline AA cells
in both mice. Neither is a LASER mouse.

I had a couple of those. The receiver kept falling off the bottom when in the
case, and the batteries were always dead. I like the newer ones (M205/M505)
much better. They have a "nano receiver" (never have to take it out of the
USB port) and a switch to turn them off. There is a carrying slot for the
receiver, if you don't want to keep it in the system. OfficeMax just had the
M205 on sale for $15 and the M505 for $20.

yeah, those seem to work well. Only thing I don't like about them is
they're just too blame small for my hands. I think the V220 must be the
one that I used to use, I still have one, can't find a model number on
it anywhere though. It's too blame small too. The Performance Mouse MX
fits my hand nicely although my pinky still drags on the desk, and I
don't like the scroll wheel as well as the older ones - the two mode
wheel is nice, but the side-side push of it feels like garbage, even
though this is supposed to be a high end mouse?

The small mice are for mobile use (I *hate* the pads - tracks sticks aren't
too bad). At home (and work) I have full-sized MX (600? and 1000) mice. I
don't use the additional buttons, though, just the two plus the scroll wheel.
I've had the larger mice for at least five years.

The problem is, and it might just be the stores around here, but when
you go into an electronics store looking for a cordless mouse - or even
a mouse in general - they don't stock anything but the small ones aimed
at laptop users, and a few cheapies. So getting a "real" mouse involves
some mail order trial and error. I'm still going through that
process... not sure what my next purchase will be. It'd be nice if
there were a store that I could just drive to and try a variety of mice...

I hear ya'. Anything where the look/feel are what you're buying, I don't do
mail order. Clothes (except shoes) fall into that category.

I don't live in the big city (moving there in a few months) but all of the
office supply stores around here have a decent selection of Microsoft and
Logitech mice (keyboards not so much).

On 1/1/2012 12:18 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

" wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:15:01 -0500, Doug Miller
wrote:

On 12/29/2011 11:10 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2011-12-29, Doug wrote:

What was your first clue?

That Sears has the slightest inkling of what a micrometer is?

Apparently you're unaware that Sears sells micrometers.

Perhaps, or perhaps not. Because Sears sells something doesn't mean they have
the first clue about what it is. ...more likely the opposite.


No kidding. About 25 years ago I needed a rebuild kit for one of
their paint guns. I had the manual that it came with, and was told they
had never made that model. As I was leaving the tool department I found
the kit hanging a few isles from the air tools so I took one back to the
parts counter to show it to them, and was told that they didn't sell
that kit!


Did you look like a Hippie back then, I had a Sears tire guy
discriminate against me back in my Hippie days telling me they didn't
have a tire that he had just told my father they had plenty of. ^_^

TDD

On 12/31/2011 4:34 PM, Steve B wrote:
wrote in message
m...
Steve B wrote the following:
"Doug wrote in message
...
On 12/29/2011 5:57 PM, Steve B wrote:

WTF is the deal? It's a plug. Absolutely no torque during operation.
Maybe a little vibration, but that's all.
Like I said in my initial response to you: a torque wrench is used to
prevent overtightening. Tighten the drain plug a bit too much, ruin the
washer. Tighten it a lot too much, damage the threads in the pan.

Is that like a spark plug? Plugs and spark plugs seem to me to be an
item that if one does not know how to insert and tighten properly, they
need to go on to basketweaving, or something. Why would any sane person
want to use a torque wrench on an oil plug? Screw in until it contacts,
tighten until resistance is felt, good to go.

Steve

Actually, a torque wrench is the correct way to tighten a spark plug in an
engine.
A torque wrench was not designed to overtighten a bolt. It was designed to
prevent overtightening of the bolt when using the manufacturer's tightness
specification.
Look it up.



--
Bill

Holy crap! All these years, I thought it was a baseline. X# of torque,
plus 1/8 turn (just because that's the way Grumpa did it), then a little
more just in case the unexpected happened.

I'll stick with the bottoming out of threads, then 1/8 turn or so, relying
on my massive intellect and intuitive powers, and decades of experience. So
far, I have NEVER EVER NOT ONCE IN MY LIFE twisted off a spark plug.

We are only talking about spark plugs here, right? ;-) I cannot bespeak of
inferior metallurgy, mislabeled bolts, nor incidents where it was plainly
NOT my fault.

Isn't that why easy-outs and oxy/acet rigs were invented? Every Christmas,
there seems to be some new invention to get out stripped out fasteners. I
hear now there's even one for getting out a stripped Phillips. If you can't
get one of those out, please turn in your tools to the tool shack
.....................

Steve

Steve




i'd like to see these torque wrench anals GET a torque wrench on a
modern transverse v-6 or one in a mini van. LMMFAO!! They're ****ing
kidding themselves. No one uses a torque wrench on a ****ing spark
plug. Please... we're lucky to get an air ratchet in there and run
'em down till they stop. There! done.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email