On Dec 3, 5:21*am, "
wrote:
On Dec 3, 3:38*am, worker bee wrote:





On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 20:45:40 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
60 gal. of gas is more tan a big drumful. How come so much gas. in the
yard? Gas blend changes from season to season.

Actually, it's a 55 gallon drum and I don't seem to get even 50 gallons
into it, strangely enough. But I generally fill it before it goes empty
so I haven't filled it from empty since it was new a few years ago.

I use the gas up within two months (generally a month to a month and a
half is when I refill) so I really doubt the seasons matter all that much
- especially in California where there is really only one, maybe two at
most, seasons anyway. There is a cool dry summer and a slightly cooler
wetter winter - neither of which has a temperature swing you can't get in
a single day in most other northern parts of the country.

My gas tank is about 20 gallons. The wife's tank is about 20 gallons. The
bike is about 5 gallons. And the lawn mower and a half dozen other
engines around the yard takes another 5 gallons.

So, a single fillup (which in practice rarely happens) will empty out the
55-gallon drum. I don't see how this amount is any different than most of
you out there.

Don't you guys have a car for you, and one for the wife, and maybe a
secondary vehicle? Don't you have lawn mowers? Don't you have other yard
equipment? I would think 55 gallons is the bare minimum since all it does
is fill the tanks just once.

What I 'really' want is TWO 55 gallon drums. Actually, I'd love a 200
gallon tank - but once you get over 60 gallons, you start getting into
fire marshall permits & transportation permits and anything over 260
gallons for delivered fuel gets you into air resource board requirements.

So, 55 gallons seems a bare minimum, at least to me. Maybe you guys go to
the gas station a lot more than I do? Or you and your wife drive the same
car?

I suspect that with someone who is doing what you say
you're doing there is probably plenty more you're doing to **** off
your neighbor. *I've known a lot of people and seen a lot of things,
but I never saw anyone trucking gasoline home in 5 gallon cans
and maintaining a 55 gallon drum in their backyard to routinely
fill their autos.

As for being the same as using a gas station, it's not. *Gas stations
have been required to have vapor recovery systems for years now.
That's why the nozzles now have a rubber covering that must be
pressed against the tank for the fuel to flow. As the fuel flows in
the system sucks up the vapors that come out as the air is displaced.
It prevents those vapors from getting into the air. *Is what you're
doing a major environmental deal? *No, but is sure doesn't help
and it sounds pretty loony to me.

You also don't say exactly how close the neighbor's house is to
where you're storing and pumping this gasoline. *He sees you
screwing around with at least a 55 gallon drum of gasoline,
filling it, pumping it, etc. *He doesn't know exactly how much
you have or what you are doing. *He does know that it sure
is strange and I think he had every right to call authorities to
make sure it complies with safety regulations.

I also suspect there is more to this story than that you use
the gasoline to fill your personal automobiles. *More likely
it's being used for some business, which of course would
be a zoning violation.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Or buying _industrial use_ fuel at less tax rate than regular gas.
Farmers get a huge break that way but it is very expensive to be
caught using it for non-farm purposes. That is why the diesel is
dyed.

Harry K

On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 11:17:03 -0500, Smokey Burns wrote:

Here's an interesting story about a guy siphoning gas from his boat when
a static spark ignited the fumes.

Your login of 'smoky burns' is apropos!

I agree that the biggest danger is fire, either from the fueling itself
or from wildlands catching on fire and then the gas can burning.

And, the biggest danger are the fumes catching fire. The story doesn't
say it was a 'static spark' so we really don't know WHAT caused the
vapors or fuel to ignite. I find it hard to believe there was enough
static charge built up 'just' from siphoning - what? Maybe twenty
gallons? (How much does a boat hold?).

But, the boat might not have been grounded. Maybe it was up on blocks? It
doesn't say. So maybe without that grounding, enough static electricity
built up from the fuel going down the rubber hose - but most of us would
at least put the containers being filled on the ground if the boat wasn't
grounded.

Let's hope he wasn't smoking cigarettes, or that he didn't turn on some
other more likely ignition source.

How many incidents like these are there daily in the USA? I'd bet one a
day is likely (just guessing). But still, I'm more likely to die from a
flu or a car accident, each of which kills something like 30 thousand
people a year so we should put it all into perspective.

Does anyone know the number of people killed a year in refueling
accidents?

On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 08:30:16 -0800, Harry K wrote:

Neighborhood fueds never turn out well. Find out
who is doing it and charge him with harassment.

I wonder how to find out WHO called it in.

When I asked, they said it was anonymous.

I wonder if it really was. Maybe there is a public record?

Either way, I'll figure out something. He can't get too far from me
without me seeing his dirty laundry (literally).

worker bee writes:

Have you ever engaged in these type of neighborly wars? Any good ideas?

Nope, never.

But one of my ex-neighbors did.
In fact, he was in a constant battle with the neighbor across the
street. One day he comes home and finds a paper bag full of dog **** on
his front stoop.

He storms across the street with the bag and starts yelling at the
neighbor. After the argument escalates for a while he returns home
threatening that he'll be back and there will be violence.

The neighbor follows him with a shovel and just as he reaches his house
the neighbor hits him in the head with the shovel.

And that's how he became an ex-neighbor. A dead ex-neighbor.

--
Dan Espen

On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 10:00:41 -0500, Tony Miklos wrote:
I might understand if you were buying when prices are low and using it
when prices are high.

I actually did the opposite recently when the prices were hovering around
$4.30 a gallon.

At those prices, I stopped refilling the gas cans and just refilled the
cars as the prices steadily dropped.

When they got down to about $3.90, I started filling the gas cans again.

With my 1,500 gallons of propane, I can easily fill up in August
(typically the low of the year) which lasts me through most of the winter
at least. So I know what you mean about buying in volume to take
advantage of the cheaper prices.

If 'our' California special gasoline ever got anywhere near 3 bucks a
gallon, I'd run out and buy a hundred five gallon cans!

On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 08:33:07 -0800, Harry K wrote:
I could beat the system somewhat if I could haul a decent size tank
across the state line. Big difference in fuel taxes over there.

I'm in California so the state lines are hundreds of miles away - but I
could see this system working if you lived in, say, New York or
Pennsylvania, and all you had to do was cross state lines to get cheap
gas.

I suspect the toll bridges might have special regulations though but
there are plenty of non-bridge crossings which could save you a ton.

When we were kids, we used to do that with liquor, taking advantages of
the differences in state laws. (Uuugh, don't remind me of those days!)

worker bee writes:

On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 23:35:44 +1300, bugalugs wrote:
Why can't you fill your car at the gas station like everybody else???.

Other than the unexpected inspector visits, it's just so very much easier
to fill up once every two months at the filling station.

It's all about the sheer convenience of gassing up at home.

A while back federal laws changed so that every gas station
pump had to be redesigned so that they would capture gas fumes before
they escape into the atmosphere while your tank was being filled.

Your clever scheme makes a shambles of that effort to clean up the
environment.

Putting the pollution you create aside, your scheme sounds a bit nuts.

Turning to your neighbor, do you think it would hurt if you stored all
those red cans out of sight?

--
Dan Espen

On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 10:05:17 -0500, Scott Dorsey wrote:
I don't know how long you can get away with... without adding a
stabilizer.

I use up all the Chevron in the drum in about six weeks (give or take a
few weeks either way).

This long-term-gas-storage Chevron web site says California reformulated
mandated gasoline lasts as long as any other gas, even with the corn in
it soaking up all that water.
http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...ety_bulletins/
ltg_storage.aspx

They simply suggest you keep the fuel drum out of the direct sun (mine is
in a loosely covered shed) and to keep the 55 gallon drum as full as you
can to avoid moisture.

Two months is the absolute maximum my gas would stay unused, if that
long, so shelf life just isn't all that big of a problem for me.

On 12/3/2011 10:10 AM, worker bee wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 07:32:03 -0500, Norminn wrote:
his son took one of his gas cans and put it inside the condo! The FD
enforced .. very nicely .. using the right kind of can, away from the
structure.

I understand. Out here, everyone does 'something' against code.

For example, you're not supposed to grade more than a certain number of
cubic yards of soil - but of course, nobody can even see you with a
bulldozer, so people grade all the time.

Every once in a while a neighbor complains and they put a stop to it and
stop them from touching the land for a certain number of years.

We had seawall repairs done at our condo..about $35k?..and shortly later
the newer condo next door had a major pipe burst which flowed onto our
property and eroded a lot of soil from behind the seawall. I enjoyed
nagging the city from time to time because some of the city building
dept. were real a--holes. I sent off an email to the bld. dept, asking
whether the city had signed off on the grading of the neighbor's lot
during construction. The neighbor had a huge paved lot and all of their
downspouts emptied onto that...curb around their lot had a channel that
let all that water go onto our property, which was a huge amount during
summer t-storms. I'd paid attention to what was going on, and had
researched a number of serious problems our condo. When the city
got my email, and nice engineer and a student intern came out; engineer
was impressed with what I knew and understood about the problems.
Shortly later, the neighbor had some minor adjustments done, including a
culvert that dumped their water into the channel, rather than onto our
property. Didn't stop the neighbors in that condo from letting their
dogs poop in our yard...I have been really impressed by the gall some
people show by walking their dog into our property to poop; strangers
with no axe to grind )

Likewise with cutting trees. Every single tree over a given diameter is a
protected tree. You're supposed to apply for a permit to cut, even
diseased or fallen trees (although the permit will be granted for sure
for those).

If a neighbor complains, the inspector will come out and cite you for
cutting down your own tree!

Similarly, there are quite a few 'unapproved auxiliary buildings' out
here that have electricity or which are greater than 120 square feet.
These buildings just go up without anyone but your one or two neighbors
noticing the hammering and sawing noises. Since it's a scenic zoned area,
you have to be away from the road by quite a distance (I don't remember
how many hundreds of feet but someone once told me what it was and I was
shocked at how far from the road it must be to be legal.)

Most of these well-lit too-close-to-the-road illegal sheds are completely
ignored - but if someone calls the inspector out on you, you have to take
it down.

There's even a guy whose pool layed unfinished for five years which I was
told by a neighbor was because he tried to build it without getting it
inspected.

Even the lines to 'my' built-in gas-fired barbeque I was told wasn't to
code when the propane guy first inspected the house to fill up my new
1,000 gallon tank that I added after putting in a concrete pad.
Apparently the previous owner put in a rather large pool shower&
equipment room and barbeque pad without getting permitted and nobody
complained yet.

That was a fairly serious issue in FL, with all the foreclosures and
whatever nasty disease the mosquitoes were spreading at the time.

Another neighbor had called code enf. about attic rats

Wow. I didn't know rats were a code violation. I have those big rat traps
all over the basement! I get a rat a week on average and keep a jar of
peanut butter in the garage just to bait the traps.

In FL, rats are about like termites...don't wonder IF you'll have them,
only WHEN. It is basic practice to keep trees away from structures.
Rats chew up wiring, holes in structure, etc.. Elderly folks should not
be forced to live with rats because they have rats for neighbors )

We do have vector control guys out here. There are three types.

One does mosquitoes. One does rodents& snakes. The third does bigger
stuff like the mountain lions and deer and coyotes.

When the neighbor was foreclosed on, he put mosquitoe fish in their green
pool and koi pond to eat the buggers and put up a big sign "DO NOT REMOVE
THESE FISH" right next to the pool - so either the vector control
helicoptor noticed the green pool or someone must have asked them to look
at the pool.

As for the rodent inspector, I guess he would be the one to suggest there
are rats, but, there are quite a few mice, moles or groundhogs (I never
can tell which they are), rabbits, and rats out here that I wonder what
you can possibly do that's illegal to attract them. Our garbage goes out
weekly in three very large bins - blue for recycling, green for
landscaping,& gray for trash (which is almost always empty as I can't
imagine what goes in that bin other than food-soiled items not worth
cleaning for reclying and not worth putting in the compost pile).

Likewise for the mountain lion guy. There's not really much he can do
except tell you to fence your lifestock with a tall fence that has an
overhang to protect the top. But I don't have livestock so I don't know
what reason someone would call code enforcement on me for that. Out here,
you can't shoot a mountain lion unless it's threatening you or your
property anyway. We actually see them probably once every few years but
we hear about them in the news about once every few months overall.

So, I guess I'm wholeheartedly agreeing with you.

We live in glass houses. There must be a code violation or two on almost
every property out here, especially since I don't even KNOW all the codes
(for example, I can't imagine what rat codes I might be violating just by
setting the numerous traps).

3) your town does power cuts, and you are tired of having to drive to east
no where to find a station with power, and then sit for an hour to get your
turn at the pump.
3a) for the gas to get to work
3b) for the gas to run your generator
4) you're in hurricane country, and want to be able to evacuate, without the
hour long wait for gasoline at the station.
5) you have a big back yard, and it takes more than a tank of gas to mow the
lawn
6) you're mistrustful of the JIT system, and want your own reserve of fuel

Christopher A. Young
Read the Book of Mormon!

"Home Guy" wrote in message ...

There's only 2 reasons why someone might want to maintain a small store
of gas in his backyard:

1) It's a long way to the gas station, and you're going to burn a lot of
gas going there just to get your gas. So get as much as you can in one
trip and bring it all home for re-distribution.

2) You want to save a few bucks by buying gas when the price is low.
It's just that you want to buy a LOT of gas when the price is low -
enough to last you a month.

Now, to find out "which" neighbor is calling in, before you go make an
innocent bystander miserable. Of course, it seems logical that the insect
which is buzzing the loudest is the one that stung you.

Not sure I'd want to fight fire with fire (not funny) on this one.


"worker bee" wrote in message
...
Interesting story just developed over the past two months that I figured
I'd let you know about in case it happens to you.

For about five years, I've been in an unfriendly situation with my
nearest neighbor (over past events with the kids getting into trouble and
barking loose dogs).

Then, the past two months, no less than 5 inspectors came to my property
to check for hazardous conditions due to 'anonymous' complaints.

The first was the fire marshall who was told I had 'large gasoline tanks'
on the property. Turns out, fuel containers of fewer than 60 gallons each
are exempt from fire marshall permit needs (a permit application alone,
he told me, is over $750).

That didn't strike me as too weird until the zoning guys dropped by. They
said someone complained about an improper 'accessory structure' used to
house gasoline. Turns out any accessory structure that is six feet from
the property line meets zoning requirements, so he left me alone.

It started to get weirder when the building inspector showed up for the
same reason (don't these guys talk to each other?). He too left empty
handed. Apparently an accessory structure only needs a permit if it's
greater than 120 square feet and if its highest point is greater than 14
feet tall.

I knew someone had it in for me when, a month later, my wife called me at
work to say there was a guy snooping around the property without even
knocking on the door! She called the police and then called me!

Turns out, it was a hazmat inspector who had received a complaint about a
'primary container' leaking with no 'secondary containment' in place. He
left before I arrived but told my wife that there was nothing he could or
would do unless it was actually leaking as there are no storage
regulations for private property other than you can't actually leak
gasoline into the ground.

He did suggest a 'secondary containment' of an oblong horse trough though.

I rushed home early from work to find both the police and yet another
inspector talking to my wife in the back yard. This inspector was from
the air quality management district. He said that organic fuel gas tanks
less than 260 gallons were exempt from vapor recovery & pressure venting
requirements, so he left before the cop finished asking questions.

The cop seemed amused by the whole story - but he asked a LOT of
questions about the gas cans lying around.

Turns out that you can't transport anything heavier (yes, heavier) than
500 pounds of "fuel" in a vehicle (not counting the vehicle's gasoline
tank itself) which he said was 62 gallons of gasoline (#11160 title 13
California Code of Regulations & 32000.5a California Vehicle Code). He
also mentioned that 172.504c Title 49 of the code of Federal Regulations
requires a placard if you carry more than 1,000 pounds of gasoline.

Since I'm only carrying about 50 gallons, I'm exempt from that too!

All in all, an interesting story. Now, I do have a sense of humor so I
have to figure out how I can get my neighbor back.

Have you ever engaged in these type of neighborly wars? Any good ideas?

On 2011-12-03, wrote:

You also don't say exactly how close the neighbor's house is to
where you're storing and pumping this gasoline. He sees you
screwing around with at least a 55 gallon drum of gasoline,
filling it, pumping it, etc. He doesn't know exactly how much
you have or what you are doing. He does know that it sure
is strange and I think he had every right to call authorities to
make sure it complies with safety regulations.

I suspect it's a neighbor who thinks everyone should live the same as
everyone else and is using the mechanisms of the government to harass
the OP into conforming.

I also suspect there is more to this story than that you use
the gasoline to fill your personal automobiles. More likely
it's being used for some business, which of course would
be a zoning violation.

I doubt it. The OP would likely know exactly what he had done to anger a
neighbor if he did anything that crossed over the (property) line.

If it's being used for a business... so what? If he's not making noise
or emmitting noxious fumes/oders what difference does it make?

worker bee wrote:

When they got down to about $3.90, I started filling the gas cans
again.

With my 1,500 gallons of propane ...

The story just keeps getting better...

On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 08:41:52 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:


With his reasoning I bet the next inspector toshow up will be from the
white coat place.


Trolls aren't really crazy.
They just make anybody who takes them seriously appear to be crazy.

--Vic

On 2011-12-03, wrote:

That compared to just driving to a gas station like the rest of
us.

Why drive to the gasoline station? Just stop at one that's on the way or
on the way back.

IMO the reason to have that much gasoline on hand is to
A) smooth out price spikes.
B) to get through some sort of disaster, power outage, etc.

" wrote:

-snip-

I can think of another reason. How about he's not buying the gas at
a gas station but stealing it from some jobsite?

I think you may have just nailed it. That is the only way it would
make any sense at all.

He's either nuts or a thief. [not to say he can't be a nutty thief, or
a thieving nut]

Jim

On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 12:18:03 -0500, Norminn
wrote:



Didn't stop the neighbors in that condo from letting their
dogs poop in our yard...I have been really impressed by the gall some
people show by walking their dog into our property to poop; strangers
with no axe to grind )



That can be fixed with some attention and a shovel. Take it back to
the neighbor and place it on the front step.

As for the strangers, pick it up in the shovel and catch up to them
and offer it back to them. They will surely appreciate it.

On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 16:57:40 +0000 (UTC), worker bee
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 11:17:03 -0500, Smokey Burns wrote:

Here's an interesting story about a guy siphoning gas from his boat when
a static spark ignited the fumes.

Your login of 'smoky burns' is apropos!

I agree that the biggest danger is fire, either from the fueling itself
or from wildlands catching on fire and then the gas can burning.

And, the biggest danger are the fumes catching fire. The story doesn't
say it was a 'static spark' so we really don't know WHAT caused the
vapors or fuel to ignite. I find it hard to believe there was enough
static charge built up 'just' from siphoning - what? Maybe twenty
gallons? (How much does a boat hold?).

But, the boat might not have been grounded. Maybe it was up on blocks? It
doesn't say. So maybe without that grounding, enough static electricity
built up from the fuel going down the rubber hose - but most of us would
at least put the containers being filled on the ground if the boat wasn't
grounded.

Let's hope he wasn't smoking cigarettes, or that he didn't turn on some
other more likely ignition source.

How many incidents like these are there daily in the USA? I'd bet one a
day is likely (just guessing). But still, I'm more likely to die from a
flu or a car accident, each of which kills something like 30 thousand
people a year so we should put it all into perspective.

Does anyone know the number of people killed a year in refueling
accidents?
Don't know the numbers, but thedanger is VERY REAL and a significant
static charge can build up in a hose transfering only a few gallons of
fuel under the "wrong" conditions. You want the tank being filled and
the tank you are filling from (and the nozzle) at the same potential -
which is why ALL fuel dispensers use metallic nozzles and metal
braided rubber hoses - and ALL vehicles have metal (or at least
conductive) fillers, which are grounded to the body.
Most plastic fuel tanks on equipment are also "conductive" plastic.

"worker bee" wrote in message
...
Interesting story just developed over the past two months that I figured
I'd let you know about in case it happens to you.

For about five years, I've been in an unfriendly situation with my
nearest neighbor (over past events with the kids getting into trouble and
barking loose dogs).

Then, the past two months, no less than 5 inspectors came to my property
to check for hazardous conditions due to 'anonymous' complaints.

The first was the fire marshall who was told I had 'large gasoline tanks'
on the property. Turns out, fuel containers of fewer than 60 gallons each
are exempt from fire marshall permit needs (a permit application alone,
he told me, is over $750).

That didn't strike me as too weird until the zoning guys dropped by. They
said someone complained about an improper 'accessory structure' used to
house gasoline. Turns out any accessory structure that is six feet from
the property line meets zoning requirements, so he left me alone.

It started to get weirder when the building inspector showed up for the
same reason (don't these guys talk to each other?). He too left empty
handed. Apparently an accessory structure only needs a permit if it's
greater than 120 square feet and if its highest point is greater than 14
feet tall.

I knew someone had it in for me when, a month later, my wife called me at
work to say there was a guy snooping around the property without even
knocking on the door! She called the police and then called me!

Turns out, it was a hazmat inspector who had received a complaint about a
'primary container' leaking with no 'secondary containment' in place. He
left before I arrived but told my wife that there was nothing he could or
would do unless it was actually leaking as there are no storage
regulations for private property other than you can't actually leak
gasoline into the ground.

He did suggest a 'secondary containment' of an oblong horse trough though.

I rushed home early from work to find both the police and yet another
inspector talking to my wife in the back yard. This inspector was from
the air quality management district. He said that organic fuel gas tanks
less than 260 gallons were exempt from vapor recovery & pressure venting
requirements, so he left before the cop finished asking questions.

The cop seemed amused by the whole story - but he asked a LOT of
questions about the gas cans lying around.

Turns out that you can't transport anything heavier (yes, heavier) than
500 pounds of "fuel" in a vehicle (not counting the vehicle's gasoline
tank itself) which he said was 62 gallons of gasoline (#11160 title 13
California Code of Regulations & 32000.5a California Vehicle Code). He
also mentioned that 172.504c Title 49 of the code of Federal Regulations
requires a placard if you carry more than 1,000 pounds of gasoline.

Since I'm only carrying about 50 gallons, I'm exempt from that too!

All in all, an interesting story. Now, I do have a sense of humor so I
have to figure out how I can get my neighbor back.

Have you ever engaged in these type of neighborly wars? Any good ideas?


I'm sure the city is NOT amused to have their inspectors sent out on false
complaints whose sole intent is to harass the target.
Talk to your local DA
Ask him to get hold of your neighbor's phone records to verify if he made
the calls
If he did, then ask the DA to prosecute for malicious false complaints.

"worker bee" wrote in message
...
Interesting story just developed over the past two months that I figured
I'd let you know about in case it happens to you.

For about five years, I've been in an unfriendly situation with my
nearest neighbor (over past events with the kids getting into trouble and
barking loose dogs).

Then, the past two months, no less than 5 inspectors came to my property
to check for hazardous conditions due to 'anonymous' complaints.

The first was the fire marshall who was told I had 'large gasoline tanks'
on the property. Turns out, fuel containers of fewer than 60 gallons each
are exempt from fire marshall permit needs (a permit application alone,
he told me, is over $750).

That didn't strike me as too weird until the zoning guys dropped by. They
said someone complained about an improper 'accessory structure' used to
house gasoline. Turns out any accessory structure that is six feet from
the property line meets zoning requirements, so he left me alone.

It started to get weirder when the building inspector showed up for the
same reason (don't these guys talk to each other?). He too left empty
handed. Apparently an accessory structure only needs a permit if it's
greater than 120 square feet and if its highest point is greater than 14
feet tall.

I knew someone had it in for me when, a month later, my wife called me at
work to say there was a guy snooping around the property without even
knocking on the door! She called the police and then called me!

Turns out, it was a hazmat inspector who had received a complaint about a
'primary container' leaking with no 'secondary containment' in place. He
left before I arrived but told my wife that there was nothing he could or
would do unless it was actually leaking as there are no storage
regulations for private property other than you can't actually leak
gasoline into the ground.

He did suggest a 'secondary containment' of an oblong horse trough though.

I rushed home early from work to find both the police and yet another
inspector talking to my wife in the back yard. This inspector was from
the air quality management district. He said that organic fuel gas tanks
less than 260 gallons were exempt from vapor recovery & pressure venting
requirements, so he left before the cop finished asking questions.

The cop seemed amused by the whole story - but he asked a LOT of
questions about the gas cans lying around.

Turns out that you can't transport anything heavier (yes, heavier) than
500 pounds of "fuel" in a vehicle (not counting the vehicle's gasoline
tank itself) which he said was 62 gallons of gasoline (#11160 title 13
California Code of Regulations & 32000.5a California Vehicle Code). He
also mentioned that 172.504c Title 49 of the code of Federal Regulations
requires a placard if you carry more than 1,000 pounds of gasoline.

Since I'm only carrying about 50 gallons, I'm exempt from that too!

All in all, an interesting story. Now, I do have a sense of humor so I
have to figure out how I can get my neighbor back.

Have you ever engaged in these type of neighborly wars? Any good ideas?

First, identify that it is 109% positive that the neighbor you think it is
is the correct one. If so, just look up practical jokes and pranks and
books on how to get even on the Internet. There are a lot, and probably a
lot for free. Third, go at it.

After that, it just depends on your level of vindictiveness and creativity.
I would stick with things that unprovable, and likely do little damage.
Don't do anything that might bring out the authorities, either, as they get
highly ****ed when someone breaks up their donut klatch. Something like
throwing road kill over the fence. From there, you're on your own as to how
far to go.

I really like the cable around the rear end of the police car in American
Graffiti.

Of course, I have no personal knowledge of acts of revenge like that that I
would like to publicly share. And in my case, you must remember that
nothing was ever proven in a court of law.

Steve

On Dec 3, 9:02*am, worker bee wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 23:35:44 +1300, bugalugs wrote:
Why can't you fill your car at the gas station like everybody else???.

Other than the unexpected inspector visits, it's just so very much easier
to fill up once every two months at the filling station.

It's all about the sheer convenience of gassing up at home.

On a different scale, it's the same reason you get water out of the tap,
instead of bringing a bucket to the village well every time you need a
drink.

Bull****... You think that it is easier to do... Normal people don't
store that much gas on their property unless it is in an inspected
and licensed tank facility on some sort of commercial or farm type
business...

In fact what you are doing is clearly asinine and you put yourself at
risk of being terribly burned in a car accident at least six times a
year since you idiotically decide to transport 50 gallons of gas in
your car...

If for whatever reason you NEED to keep doing this your way,
either buy a containment platform to keep your drum on in
case it develops a leak (or you neighbor decides to damage
it in some way so it leaks, then calls in to report fumes and
seeing the drum wet/leaking which would result in a Hazmat
response to your house and expensive environmental cleanup
costs) OR buy two UL approved flammable liquids storage
cabinets and store 5 of the 5 gallon containers in each cabinet
inside your garage...

Yet you keep doing this knowing that your neighbors clearly
object to it... You are setting yourself up to be in a position
where even if someone commits an act of arson or some
vandalism against you, you will end up having to pay for the
damages it caused anyone else as you chose to store that
large a quantity of fuel on your property when if you look at
everyone else on your street, they probably have no more
than 2 or 5 gallons of gas in a container and a 20 pound
propane tank for a grill...

On Dec 3, 9:43*am, worker bee wrote:

Bear in mind, ALL my friends think the same way as you do, so I do
understand that you may think it loony. However, I don't. I really don't.

I liken it, albeit I'm perhaps pushing the analogies a bit to far to why
you have a well to deliver water to your faucet instead of driving down
to the village well to carry a bucket home every day.

Or, why you buy canned food so you don't have to go to the village to buy
fresh food every day.

Or why you stock up on batteries in case the power goes out and the
generator doesn't kick in during a power outage - instead of just driving
to the center of town to pick up batteries during open hours.

Or why you have more than one set of clothes instead of just washing the
same pair every day.

Or why you bring more firewood into the house than you need so you don't
have to go outside every time you run out of wood in the fireplace.

To me, it's the same concept. I do realize that most of you don't think
this way, but some of you don't have solar panels, a whole-house electric
generator, 1,500 gallons of propane tanks, multiple wells, a septic
system, solar pool heaters, etc., for the 'utilities' of your house
either.

People buy canned food so they have food that will stay fresh longer,
and so they can have a supply on hand just in case the supply of
fresh food is interrupted during some sort of weather related or other
emergency so they can continue to eat once the few days supply
of fresh food they have on hand runs out or can not be properly
stored and has to be disposed of...

Grocery stores are very nice concepts, however when they have
no electrical power they are unable to sell you any of the foodstuffs
they keep locked up inside...

"Stock up on batteries" you mean buying a package of batteries
that has 40 AA batteries in it... LOL... By your logic and the
way you purchase and store gasoline you would be buying
cases of batteries once a year and storing them -- that is not
normal...

Normal people do not buy batteries two at a time, but they also
do not buy cases or pallets of them to keep a hoard of batteries
on hand either...

Normal people have more than one set of clothes because if
they do not have more than one set of clothes everyone
around them will look at them oddly even if those clothes
are washed every night before they are worn the next day...

Normal people do not wear the same exact clothes every
day -- this is why when children go through the phase of
wanting to do it parents try to discourage them out of it...

The firewood analogy seems to be the closest one to the
point you are trying to make -- although in a storm where
you would be needing the firewood to heat your house by
the fireplace would you want to have to go outside and
get wet or cold in order to obtain more fuel? Nope...

Most people keep the woodpile out and away from their
house and will bring some additional wood inside when
they are warned of some extreme weather or cold coming
soon so they don't have to brave the elements to keep
warm during the main event...


I asked the cop about my suspicions. The cop shrugged and said there was
nothing I could do since it was circumstantial. He said there's nothing
wrong with someone complaining to the authorities.


Wrong, there is something wrong with someone using the authorities
to harass and annoy other people... If you feel it was your neighbor,
ask the authorities just what format these anonymous complaints
were received in: if written letters that is excellent, you have to
touch a piece of paper to mail it and there will be fingerprints on
it all you need to do is obtain a sample from the suspected
neighbor and subpoena the original complaint from the authorities
and hire a forensics lab to do the comparison for you;
if it was received via the telephone, excellent, all you need to do
is subpoena the telephone records of your neighbors which will
indicate the calls to each of the inspectors who paid you a visit,
unless they were devious enough to procure a pre-paid cell phone
to use in this dastardly plot against you, then it becomes something
that law enforcement needs to investigate because of the sheer
number of subpoenas that are involved to piece things together;
if it was an e-mail, those are trickier, but a subpoena to the ISP
or owner of the domain name in the e-mail address will result in
the name of the user of that account...


But, I don't have any proof whatsoever. They all said it was an anonymous
complaint. Plus, they've all visited in the past two months, and all left
saying things were in order. One even said I used a lot of common sense
in my setup, which met OSHA standards for commercial storage facilities,
he said, except for the secondary containment horse trough - which I will
add as soon as I find one locally.


Again, there would be a pattern of calls made by one person/telephone
to all of those inspectors that would not be random -- especially if
the
first visit didn't result in what the caller was looking for and they
called
other additional inspectors from more agencies after that took
place...

That sort of thing is using the government to harass and annoy...

On Dec 3, 11:47*am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 09:30:36 -0500, Home Guy wrote:

There's only 2 reasons why someone might want to maintain a small store
of gas in his backyard:

1) It's a long way to the gas station, and you're going to burn a lot of
gas going there just to get your gas. *So get as much as you can in one
trip and bring it all home for re-distribution.

2) You want to save a few bucks by buying gas when the price is low.
It's just that you want to buy a LOT of gas when the price is low -
enough to last you a month.

How about:
3) He has a lot of off road vehicles to fuel up. *ATV, snowmobile,
tractor, etc.

As for filling up the family sedan, I hate pumping gas once so I'll be
damned if I'm going to do it twice. *We do have a few full service
station in central MA though, lowest prices around too!

Here in CT it is 3.53 if I pump it myself. *Across the border, I can
have it pumped for me and pay 3.31.

OK, that brings up reason 4). *He buys a large quantity when traveling
to another state with cheaper gas and saves $25 a load.

Transporting fuel of any quantity not contained in your vehicle's
factory designed fuel tank across state lines requires a federal
license to do so -- case else you are committing tax fraud on the
state of your residence by evading the gasoline tax on fuel you
clearly
intend to use within your state that you purchased in another and
making a federal offense out of it by crossing a state line...

On Dec 3, 12:08*pm, worker bee wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 08:33:07 -0800, Harry K wrote:
I could beat the system somewhat if I could haul a decent size tank
across the state line. *Big difference in fuel taxes over there.

I'm in California so the state lines are hundreds of miles away - but I
could see this system working if you lived in, say, New York or
Pennsylvania, and all you had to do was cross state lines to get cheap
gas.

I suspect the toll bridges might have special regulations though but
there are plenty of non-bridge crossings which could save you a ton.

When we were kids, we used to do that with liquor, taking advantages of
the differences in state laws. (Uuugh, don't remind me of those days!)

Transporting more than a few bottles of liquor across state lines
which can only be used as gifts is utterly illegal... Alcohol and
tobacco
products are required to have state tax stamps on them which prove
that
they were lawfully obtained and had the taxes paid on them... States
require that you have a proper license and permit to be able to sell
either
of those items...

Transporting either of those commodities across a state line in
quantities
of more than a gallon of hard liquor is a serious federal offense...

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 12:18:03 -0500,
wrote:



Didn't stop the neighbors in that condo from letting their
dogs poop in our yard...I have been really impressed by the gall some
people show by walking their dog into our property to poop; strangers
with no axe to grind )



That can be fixed with some attention and a shovel. Take it back to
the neighbor and place it on the front step.

As for the strangers, pick it up in the shovel and catch up to them
and offer it back to them. They will surely appreciate it.
Hi,
My house is beside community mail box. People come to pick up their mail
from their keyed boxes. Some used to toss cig. butt onto our lawn.
I got upset and started to pick up the butt and give it back to the
person who threw it away burning. After a while they quit doing that.
Any how I think the OP is very unusual playing with gasoline like that.
Or is it FUNNY? Maybe accident waiting to happen. I hope he does not get
burned or his house does not go up in smoke sooner or later.

On 2011-12-03, Attila.Iskander wrote:

I'm sure the city is NOT amused to have their inspectors sent out on false
complaints whose sole intent is to harass the target.

They are probably more than happy to go out on citizen complaints false
or not. The only reason they wouldn't be is if it caused them to miss
out on some revenue... which is doubtful.

Government historically encourages people to turn in their neighbors and
family members, the USA is no exception these days.

On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 11:00:09 -0800 (PST), Evan
wrote:




OK, that brings up reason 4). *He buys a large quantity when traveling
to another state with cheaper gas and saves $25 a load.

Transporting fuel of any quantity not contained in your vehicle's
factory designed fuel tank across state lines requires a federal
license to do so -- case else you are committing tax fraud on the
state of your residence by evading the gasoline tax on fuel you
clearly
intend to use within your state that you purchased in another and
making a federal offense out of it by crossing a state line...


Info on transporting.
http://telsafe.org/Documents/NTSPGas...sportation.pdf

I found nothing about federal laws and taxes though. I don't think
they give a damn about not paying the state tax. When I ran trucks, I
had to track the miles in each state for fuel use, never in a car.
Feds did not care what we did.

Most guys siphon from the car to the boat -- gas is usually cheaper on land.
I've heard of folks fuel up the boat on land, before launching at the slip.
Something is odd, here.

I fuel the vehicles at the gas station, cause I live in a trailer park, and
I'm sure the park would not like fuel storage.

"Smokey Burns" wrote in message
...
Here's an interesting story about a guy siphoning gas from his boat when a
static spark ignited the fumes.


http://www.caller.com/news/2011/nov/...on-motor-boat/

You're certainly free to do what you want but I'll fuel my car at the gas
station.

On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 11:04:36 -0800 (PST), Evan
wrote:




Transporting more than a few bottles of liquor across state lines
which can only be used as gifts is utterly illegal... Alcohol and
tobacco
products are required to have state tax stamps on them which prove
that
they were lawfully obtained and had the taxes paid on them... States
require that you have a proper license and permit to be able to sell
either
of those items...


This is all true.


Transporting either of those commodities across a state line in
quantities
of more than a gallon of hard liquor is a serious federal offense...

I think this is BS. Fed taxes have been paid. They don't care much.
The other state may though.

On 12/3/2011 1:03 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 12:18:03 -0500,
wrote:



Didn't stop the neighbors in that condo from letting their
dogs poop in our yard...I have been really impressed by the gall some
people show by walking their dog into our property to poop; strangers
with no axe to grind )



That can be fixed with some attention and a shovel. Take it back to
the neighbor and place it on the front step.

As for the strangers, pick it up in the shovel and catch up to them
and offer it back to them. They will surely appreciate it.

It was tempting ) In that particular condo, one could get into enough
trouble being nice, so didn't want to push my luck. Condo board, for
several years, were very, very hostile to those who wanted the place
properly maintained....it wasn't about picking a color of paint or any
other minor issue. Eventually, enough units were sold (after the real
estate crash) that the bad actors were no longer in power.

On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 16:59:29 +0000 (UTC), worker bee
wrote:

I wonder how to find out WHO called it in.

I have a novel idea. Why don't you ask the neighbor?!

Are you afraid? Of course you do live the land of fruits and nuts.

Ever heard of using a shopvac to clean out a gas tank?

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.s...ld_man_su.html

On 12/3/2011 2:46 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Most guys siphon from the car to the boat -- gas is usually cheaper on
land. I've heard of folks fuel up the boat on land, before launching at
the slip. Something is odd, here.

I fuel the vehicles at the gas station, cause I live in a trailer park,
and I'm sure the park would not like fuel storage.

"Smokey Burns" wrote in message
...
Here's an interesting story about a guy siphoning gas from his boat
when a static spark ignited the fumes.


http://www.caller.com/news/2011/nov/...on-motor-boat/


You're certainly free to do what you want but I'll fuel my car at the
gas station.

In article , Home Guy wrote:
worker bee wrote:

When they got down to about $3.90, I started filling the gas cans
again.

With my 1,500 gallons of propane ...

The story just keeps getting better...

I've had neighbors just like this....
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article , worker bee
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 08:30:16 -0800, Harry K wrote:

Neighborhood fueds never turn out well. Find out
who is doing it and charge him with harassment.

I wonder how to find out WHO called it in.

When I asked, they said it was anonymous.

I wonder if it really was. Maybe there is a public record?

Either way, I'll figure out something. He can't get too far from me
without me seeing his dirty laundry (literally).

Sending in "tips" to the IRS and local tax authority can have amusing results

On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 17:23:49 -0500, Bernie Ward bernie.ward@hotmail
wrote:

Ever heard of using a shopvac to clean out a gas tank?

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.s...ld_man_su.html

On 12/3/2011 2:46 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Most guys siphon from the car to the boat -- gas is usually cheaper on
land. I've heard of folks fuel up the boat on land, before launching at
the slip. Something is odd, here.

I fuel the vehicles at the gas station, cause I live in a trailer park,
and I'm sure the park would not like fuel storage.

"Smokey Burns" wrote in message
...
Here's an interesting story about a guy siphoning gas from his boat
when a static spark ignited the fumes.


http://www.caller.com/news/2011/nov/...on-motor-boat/


You're certainly free to do what you want but I'll fuel my car at the
gas station.


_Fuel Tanker Explodes When Man Uses Lighter To Check The Tank_

Video: (short)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgjI4PacHgk

Ever hear of not top posting?

"Bernie Ward" bernie.ward@hotmail wrote in message
...
Ever heard of using a shopvac to clean out a gas tank?

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.s...ld_man_su.html

On 12/3/2011 2:46 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Most guys siphon from the car to the boat -- gas is usually cheaper on
land. I've heard of folks fuel up the boat on land, before launching at
the slip. Something is odd, here.

I fuel the vehicles at the gas station, cause I live in a trailer park,
and I'm sure the park would not like fuel storage.

"Smokey Burns" wrote in message
...
Here's an interesting story about a guy siphoning gas from his boat
when a static spark ignited the fumes.


http://www.caller.com/news/2011/nov/...on-motor-boat/


You're certainly free to do what you want but I'll fuel my car at the
gas station.

"Brent" wrote in message
...
On 2011-12-03, Attila.Iskander wrote:

I'm sure the city is NOT amused to have their inspectors sent out on
false
complaints whose sole intent is to harass the target.

They are probably more than happy to go out on citizen complaints false
or not. The only reason they wouldn't be is if it caused them to miss
out on some revenue... which is doubtful.

Government historically encourages people to turn in their neighbors and
family members, the USA is no exception these days.

It is going to get worse. The Brown Shirts are coming back. Rat on your
neighbor. Rat on your parents.

A good friend of mine has a 16 year old daughter. She is typical. Can't
understand why mom and dad have reservations about things like tattoos, body
piercings, going to raves, staying out until 3 AM, etc.

Girl gets class at school that teaches her about domestic violence. Plus
all this other ammunition of what legally constitutes domestic violence.
She was told that if someone blocks her exit from a room, that is reason to
call 911. Armed with all this ammunition, she's ready to go home and show
Mom and Dad who's REALLY in command.

Daughter is being a putz one night, and dad puts his foot down. Daughter
wants to retreat to bedroom before hearing all of what Dad has to say. Dad
blocks way. Girl eventually gets to room, and calls 911.

Cops come. Parents, local very successful established businesspersons, are
taken away in handcuffs. Children are taken into protective custody by
officers whose duty is to protect and serve. Daughter and son spend six
months in foster care. Family is finally reunited after six months.

Mom and Dad cannot have future children because of medical reasons. Were
planning to adopt, but with domestic violence record, are permanently
forbidden to even apply.

Daughter comes to Mom, and says that if she really understood what the
consequences were, that she would have never called 911.

But, sorry, that wasn't included in DV101 at school.

The Brown Shirts are back.

Steve

worker bee wrote in
:

Interesting story just developed over the past two months that I
figured I'd let you know about in case it happens to you.

For about five years, I've been in an unfriendly situation with my
nearest neighbor (over past events with the kids getting into trouble
and barking loose dogs).

Then, the past two months, no less than 5 inspectors came to my
property to check for hazardous conditions due to 'anonymous'
complaints.

The first was the fire marshall who was told I had 'large gasoline
tanks' on the property. Turns out, fuel containers of fewer than 60
gallons each are exempt from fire marshall permit needs (a permit
application alone, he told me, is over $750).

That didn't strike me as too weird until the zoning guys dropped by.
They said someone complained about an improper 'accessory structure'
used to house gasoline. Turns out any accessory structure that is six
feet from the property line meets zoning requirements, so he left me
alone.

It started to get weirder when the building inspector showed up for
the same reason (don't these guys talk to each other?). He too left
empty handed. Apparently an accessory structure only needs a permit if
it's greater than 120 square feet and if its highest point is greater
than 14 feet tall.

I knew someone had it in for me when, a month later, my wife called me
at work to say there was a guy snooping around the property without
even knocking on the door! She called the police and then called me!

Turns out, it was a hazmat inspector who had received a complaint
about a 'primary container' leaking with no 'secondary containment' in
place. He left before I arrived but told my wife that there was
nothing he could or would do unless it was actually leaking as there
are no storage regulations for private property other than you can't
actually leak gasoline into the ground.

He did suggest a 'secondary containment' of an oblong horse trough
though.

I rushed home early from work to find both the police and yet another
inspector talking to my wife in the back yard. This inspector was from
the air quality management district. He said that organic fuel gas
tanks less than 260 gallons were exempt from vapor recovery & pressure
venting requirements, so he left before the cop finished asking
questions.

The cop seemed amused by the whole story - but he asked a LOT of
questions about the gas cans lying around.

Turns out that you can't transport anything heavier (yes, heavier)
than 500 pounds of "fuel" in a vehicle (not counting the vehicle's
gasoline tank itself) which he said was 62 gallons of gasoline (#11160
title 13 California Code of Regulations & 32000.5a California Vehicle
Code). He also mentioned that 172.504c Title 49 of the code of Federal
Regulations requires a placard if you carry more than 1,000 pounds of
gasoline.

Since I'm only carrying about 50 gallons, I'm exempt from that too!

All in all, an interesting story. Now, I do have a sense of humor so I
have to figure out how I can get my neighbor back.

Have you ever engaged in these type of neighborly wars? Any good
ideas?


What other kind of crap you have laying around the estate? Is it one of
those eyesore **** strewn all over the place properties? Is this gas
thing just an item to address a much bigger issue?

Additional pile of **** or not, I wouldn't want all that frikkin gas next door to
me either. And I don't care if

#11160 title 13 California Code of Regulations & 32000.5a California Vehicle Code) - 172.504c Title 49)

says it's OK.

Sounds to me like you are ALREADY getting back at your neighbor, with
all that fussing over gasoline going on next door to him.


--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

The people who state that it wuld be easier to just fuel up the car
at the finning station are right, but they are missing the point. If
the OP just fueled up at the ga station, he would have to find something
else to do to irritate his neighbor.
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org