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#1
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsin residential property
Interesting story just developed over the past two months that I figured
I'd let you know about in case it happens to you. For about five years, I've been in an unfriendly situation with my nearest neighbor (over past events with the kids getting into trouble and barking loose dogs). Then, the past two months, no less than 5 inspectors came to my property to check for hazardous conditions due to 'anonymous' complaints. The first was the fire marshall who was told I had 'large gasoline tanks' on the property. Turns out, fuel containers of fewer than 60 gallons each are exempt from fire marshall permit needs (a permit application alone, he told me, is over $750). That didn't strike me as too weird until the zoning guys dropped by. They said someone complained about an improper 'accessory structure' used to house gasoline. Turns out any accessory structure that is six feet from the property line meets zoning requirements, so he left me alone. It started to get weirder when the building inspector showed up for the same reason (don't these guys talk to each other?). He too left empty handed. Apparently an accessory structure only needs a permit if it's greater than 120 square feet and if its highest point is greater than 14 feet tall. I knew someone had it in for me when, a month later, my wife called me at work to say there was a guy snooping around the property without even knocking on the door! She called the police and then called me! Turns out, it was a hazmat inspector who had received a complaint about a 'primary container' leaking with no 'secondary containment' in place. He left before I arrived but told my wife that there was nothing he could or would do unless it was actually leaking as there are no storage regulations for private property other than you can't actually leak gasoline into the ground. He did suggest a 'secondary containment' of an oblong horse trough though. I rushed home early from work to find both the police and yet another inspector talking to my wife in the back yard. This inspector was from the air quality management district. He said that organic fuel gas tanks less than 260 gallons were exempt from vapor recovery & pressure venting requirements, so he left before the cop finished asking questions. The cop seemed amused by the whole story - but he asked a LOT of questions about the gas cans lying around. Turns out that you can't transport anything heavier (yes, heavier) than 500 pounds of "fuel" in a vehicle (not counting the vehicle's gasoline tank itself) which he said was 62 gallons of gasoline (#11160 title 13 California Code of Regulations & 32000.5a California Vehicle Code). He also mentioned that 172.504c Title 49 of the code of Federal Regulations requires a placard if you carry more than 1,000 pounds of gasoline. Since I'm only carrying about 50 gallons, I'm exempt from that too! All in all, an interesting story. Now, I do have a sense of humor so I have to figure out how I can get my neighbor back. Have you ever engaged in these type of neighborly wars? Any good ideas? |
#2
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsinresidential property
worker bee wrote:
The first was the fire marshall who was told I had 'large gasoline tanks' on the property. zoning guys dropped by. They said someone complained about an improper 'accessory structure' used to house gasoline. Turns out, it was a hazmat inspector who had received a complaint about a 'primary container' leaking with no 'secondary containment' in place. There are no storage regulations for private property other than you can't actually leak gasoline into the ground. This inspector was from the air quality management district. He said that organic fuel gas tanks less than 260 gallons were... The cop seemed amused by the whole story - but he asked a LOT of questions about the gas cans lying around. Since I'm only carrying about 50 gallons, I'm exempt from that too! There is an awful lot about gasoline and gasoline containers in your story. Do you keep a lot of gas cans on your property - in full public view? Do you handle a lot of gas cans (moving them around) on your property? Is there a constant odor of gasoline hanging around your property that the neighbor can smell? Or can the neighbor see you and your gas cans without too much effort? The average home owner might have a few 5-gallon cans for lawn mowers or other small gas-powered engines - but it sounds like you dick around with so much gas that you must make a living out of it somehow. Do you own/operate a yard-maintainence or landscaping company (lots of lawn mowers, small tractors, etc)? Or construction equipment (back-hoe, etc)? Or maybe you have lots of recreational vehicles? Boats or other watercraft? Dirt bikes or ATV's? |
#3
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
On Dec 2, 10:01*pm, Home Guy wrote:
worker bee wrote: The first was the fire marshall who was told I had 'large gasoline tanks' on the property. zoning guys dropped by. They said someone complained about an improper 'accessory structure' used to house gasoline. Turns out, it was a hazmat inspector who had received a complaint about a 'primary container' leaking with no 'secondary containment' in place. *There are no storage regulations for private property other than you can't actually leak gasoline into the ground. This inspector was from the air quality management district. He said that organic fuel gas tanks less than 260 gallons were... The cop seemed amused by the whole story - but he asked a LOT of questions about the gas cans lying around. Since I'm only carrying about 50 gallons, I'm exempt from that too! There is an awful lot about gasoline and gasoline containers in your story. Do you keep a lot of gas cans on your property - in full public view? Do you handle a lot of gas cans (moving them around) on your property? Is there a constant odor of gasoline hanging around your property that the neighbor can smell? *Or can the neighbor see you and your gas cans without too much effort? The average home owner might have a few 5-gallon cans for lawn mowers or other small gas-powered engines - but it sounds like you dick around with so much gas that you must make a living out of it somehow. *Do you own/operate a yard-maintainence or landscaping company (lots of lawn mowers, small tractors, etc)? *Or construction equipment (back-hoe, etc)? Or maybe you have lots of recreational vehicles? *Boats or other watercraft? *Dirt bikes or ATV's?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - well at peak times i have had multiple 5 gallon containers topping out at just under a 100 gallons........ i have far less today..... gasoline spoils very fast when it has 10% ethanol |
#4
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 19:10:12 -0800, bob haller wrote:
gasoline spoils very fast when it has 10% ethanol Actually, as far as I can tell, gasoline doesn't spoil all 'that' fast. I use up the entire 55 gallon drum in just a few weeks, depending on my driving of course. It generally takes less than two months to use it all up. Even California blended corn-o-haul easily lasts two months from what I've seen in the literature. HOWEVER (and this is a big but) ... EVERYONE says gas doesn't last long but NOBODY actually has a length of time specified that anyone else will agree to. Hearing people say gas doesn't last is about as useful as hearing people say life isn't what it used to be. It's meaningless the way it's used. NOBODY but nobody can tell me how LONG gasoline REALLY lasts but EVERYONE I talk to says two months is just fine. I even called Chevron and they said there is no problem using their reformulated California gas months after it was dispensed. They said WATER is the main culprit in gasoline going bad - and they said that as long as you keep water out of the tank, it should easily last the time I'm using it. They said heat also matters, but, at outside temperatures, it doesn't matter as much as water does. So, if anyone can find an actual TIME that others will agree to that gasoline lasts in outside storage - I'd be the first one to listen to them - but two months seems, by all accounts, to be well within the agreed-upon stable storage period. |
#5
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsinresidential property
On 12/3/2011 3:29 AM, worker bee wrote:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 19:10:12 -0800, bob haller wrote: gasoline spoils very fast when it has 10% ethanol Actually, as far as I can tell, gasoline doesn't spoil all 'that' fast. I use up the entire 55 gallon drum in just a few weeks, depending on my driving of course. It generally takes less than two months to use it all up. I might understand if you were buying when prices are low and using it when prices are high. The whole thing sounds like way too much of a hassle, more of a hassle than taking the car to the gas station. Speaking of buying low, I paid $2.99/gallon earlier this week. |
#6
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
On Dec 3, 7:00*am, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/3/2011 3:29 AM, worker bee wrote: On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 19:10:12 -0800, bob haller wrote: gasoline spoils very fast when it has 10% ethanol Actually, as far as I can tell, gasoline doesn't spoil all 'that' fast. I use up the entire 55 gallon drum in just a few weeks, depending on my driving of course. It generally takes less than two months to use it all up. I might understand if you were buying when prices are low and using it when prices are high. *The whole thing sounds like way too much of a hassle, more of a hassle than taking the car to the gas station. Speaking of buying low, I paid $2.99/gallon earlier this week. My only method of beating the system is to keep all tanks full as prices are rising and as near empty as practical when they are dropping = dollar cost averaging. I could beat the system somewhat if I could haul a decent size tank across the state line. Big difference in fuel taxes over there. Harry K |
#7
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.law-enforcement,rec.autos.tech
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 10:00:41 -0500, Tony Miklos wrote:
I might understand if you were buying when prices are low and using it when prices are high. I actually did the opposite recently when the prices were hovering around $4.30 a gallon. At those prices, I stopped refilling the gas cans and just refilled the cars as the prices steadily dropped. When they got down to about $3.90, I started filling the gas cans again. With my 1,500 gallons of propane, I can easily fill up in August (typically the low of the year) which lasts me through most of the winter at least. So I know what you mean about buying in volume to take advantage of the cheaper prices. If 'our' California special gasoline ever got anywhere near 3 bucks a gallon, I'd run out and buy a hundred five gallon cans! |
#8
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.law-enforcement,rec.autos.tech
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
worker bee wrote:
NOBODY but nobody can tell me how LONG gasoline REALLY lasts but EVERYONE I talk to says two months is just fine. I even called Chevron and they said there is no problem using their reformulated California gas months after it was dispensed. They said WATER is the main culprit in gasoline going bad - and they said that as long as you keep water out of the tank, it should easily last the time I'm using it. They said heat also matters, but, at outside temperatures, it doesn't matter as much as water does. I don't know how long you can get away with, but I know that I can store gas for the mower in September and it's marginal but usable in March. So I would guess that is about the limit without adding a stabilizer. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 10:05:17 -0500, Scott Dorsey wrote:
I don't know how long you can get away with... without adding a stabilizer. I use up all the Chevron in the drum in about six weeks (give or take a few weeks either way). This long-term-gas-storage Chevron web site says California reformulated mandated gasoline lasts as long as any other gas, even with the corn in it soaking up all that water. http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...ety_bulletins/ ltg_storage.aspx They simply suggest you keep the fuel drum out of the direct sun (mine is in a loosely covered shed) and to keep the 55 gallon drum as full as you can to avoid moisture. Two months is the absolute maximum my gas would stay unused, if that long, so shelf life just isn't all that big of a problem for me. |
#10
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 22:01:09 -0500, Home Guy wrote:
Do you keep a lot of gas cans on your property - in full public view? I have 10 five-gallon Blitz gasoline containers & a 55 gallon drum where I pour them into, about once a month or so (as needed). So most of the time the 10 red cans are empty (caps loose, open to the atmosphere) and the 55-gallon drum is how I dispense gasoline to two vehicles with a gasoline pump. The neighbor can see into my back yard, as I can see into his as there are few surrounding trees - only small shrubs which afford no great means of privacy unfortunately. Do you handle a lot of gas cans (moving them around) on your property? Once a month or so, I fill the 10 5-gallon portable gasoline containers at a filling station and use them to refill the 55-gallon drum. Other than that, they don't 'move' around my property. Is there a constant odor of gasoline hanging around your property that the neighbor can smell? Or can the neighbor see you and your gas cans without too much effort? No way would there be an odor. There is way too much wind for that. Plus there are no vapors to speak of that one could smell. They're all closed containers when full. However, the neighbor 'can' see the whole operation from where he sits as he is slightly elevated over me and there are scant foliage to hide my perfectly legal activities. The average home owner might have a few 5-gallon cans for lawn mowers or other small gas-powered engines - but it sounds like you dick around with so much gas that you must make a living out of it somehow. No. I just fill my vehicles as needed. It takes about four to eight weeks (average might be about six, but it varies) to empty the 55-gallon drum, which necessitates a refill. Do you own/operate a yard-maintenance or landscaping company (lots of lawn mowers, small tractors, etc)? Or construction equipment (back-hoe, etc)? No. Just your average tools. Riding mower. 2-stroke blower. Stile chain saw. Four-bladed edger & cultivator. Weed trimmer. 2-inch wood chipper. Just the normal stuff. Why do you ask? Or maybe you have lots of recreational vehicles? Boats or other watercraft? Dirt bikes or ATV's? One motorcycle. Two cars. A half dozen regular yard engines. Normal stuff. But they all use gasoline to the tune of roughly fifteen or so gallons a week (give or take a few). |
#11
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsinresidential property
On 3/12/2011 9:15 p.m., worker bee wrote:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 22:01:09 -0500, Home Guy wrote: Do you keep a lot of gas cans on your property - in full public view? I have 10 five-gallon Blitz gasoline containers& a 55 gallon drum where I pour them into, about once a month or so (as needed). So most of the time the 10 red cans are empty (caps loose, open to the atmosphere) and the 55-gallon drum is how I dispense gasoline to two vehicles with a gasoline pump. The neighbor can see into my back yard, as I can see into his as there are few surrounding trees - only small shrubs which afford no great means of privacy unfortunately. Do you handle a lot of gas cans (moving them around) on your property? Once a month or so, I fill the 10 5-gallon portable gasoline containers at a filling station and use them to refill the 55-gallon drum. Other than that, they don't 'move' around my property. Why can't you fill your car at the gas station like everybody else???. At the moment the gas goes to the 5 gallon tank ( 10 times) to the 55 gallon drum (10 times) then to the car. Why all the stuffing around ??? Do it once!!! If you want to upset your neighbor order him a dozen piazza or a load of shingle. -- Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. |
#12
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 23:35:44 +1300, bugalugs wrote:
Why can't you fill your car at the gas station like everybody else???. Other than the unexpected inspector visits, it's just so very much easier to fill up once every two months at the filling station. It's all about the sheer convenience of gassing up at home. On a different scale, it's the same reason you get water out of the tap, instead of bringing a bucket to the village well every time you need a drink. |
#13
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsinresidential property
On 12/3/2011 9:02 AM, worker bee wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 23:35:44 +1300, bugalugs wrote: Why can't you fill your car at the gas station like everybody else???. Other than the unexpected inspector visits, it's just so very much easier to fill up once every two months at the filling station. It's all about the sheer convenience of gassing up at home. I would have to agree with you. I never understood the charm of just being able to pull into a gas station and buy gasoline on demand and let others deal with transporting and storing it. And even worse there are three local cash only stations that charge less and pump it for you... On a different scale, it's the same reason you get water out of the tap, instead of bringing a bucket to the village well every time you need a drink. Not at all, you said you go to a gas station to get a flammable liquid and put it in containers which you transport home and dump into another container which you then transfer again. How exactly is that more convenient than pulling into a gas station and saying "fill it up". |
#14
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
On Dec 3, 9:02*am, worker bee wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 23:35:44 +1300, bugalugs wrote: Why can't you fill your car at the gas station like everybody else???. Other than the unexpected inspector visits, it's just so very much easier to fill up once every two months at the filling station. It's all about the sheer convenience of gassing up at home. On a different scale, it's the same reason you get water out of the tap, instead of bringing a bucket to the village well every time you need a drink. there are alternatives....... use your motor vehicles to fuel your lawn and other type stuff. many modern vehicles have a schrader valve under the hood for service purposes. its a quick disconnect type device.... open hood, connect line, turn on key so electric fuel pump goes on and your all set. ,minimize amount of gasoline around but still keep some 5 gallon cans... ideally if you have a pick up you could add saddle tanks, and use the pick up as your fueling station just quit filling the 55 gallon drum, or if you want to fill it and add fuel stabilizer..... it can sit for at least a couple years. always be prepared neighborhood wars are never a good thing....... everyone looses |
#15
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsinresidential property
worker bee wrote:
Why can't you fill your car at the gas station like everybody else???. I gave 2 reasons in my last post why he might be doing this. it's just so very much easier to fill up once every two months at the filling station. It's all about the sheer convenience of gassing up at home. I did not anticipate this third reason. Do the fumes make you high or something? On a different scale, it's the same reason you get water out of the tap, instead of bringing a bucket to the village well every time you need a drink. But you *are* bringing your bucket of gas back to your "village" by doing this! And last time I checked, not too many people have a gasoline pipeline running to their home. |
#16
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsin residential property
In article ,
worker bee wrote: On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 23:35:44 +1300, bugalugs wrote: Why can't you fill your car at the gas station like everybody else???. Other than the unexpected inspector visits, it's just so very much easier to fill up once every two months at the filling station. It's all about the sheer convenience of gassing up at home. To each his own, but for the most part it seems infinitely easier to schlep down to the gas station than to fill up a bunch of 10 gallon gas cans, hoist them into the drum one at a time, and then put them back until the next time. YYM(obviously)V On a different scale, it's the same reason you get water out of the tap, instead of bringing a bucket to the village well every time you need a drink. Not even close unless you tap into the gas pipeline running under your house. Actually what you are doing seems to be REALLY close to going to the village. -- People thought cybersex was a safe alternative, until patients started presenting with sexually acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz |
#17
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
On Dec 3, 6:02*am, worker bee wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 23:35:44 +1300, bugalugs wrote: Why can't you fill your car at the gas station like everybody else???. Other than the unexpected inspector visits, it's just so very much easier to fill up once every two months at the filling station. It's all about the sheer convenience of gassing up at home. On a different scale, it's the same reason you get water out of the tap, instead of bringing a bucket to the village well every time you need a drink. What convenience. I'll bet it takes you _longer_ to fill at home than it would at the station and you don't make special trips to gas up, just stop as you are going by anyhow. All that dicking aorund with cans, etc. is taking you a lot longer overall. Harry K |
#18
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsin residential property
worker bee writes:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 23:35:44 +1300, bugalugs wrote: Why can't you fill your car at the gas station like everybody else???. Other than the unexpected inspector visits, it's just so very much easier to fill up once every two months at the filling station. It's all about the sheer convenience of gassing up at home. A while back federal laws changed so that every gas station pump had to be redesigned so that they would capture gas fumes before they escape into the atmosphere while your tank was being filled. Your clever scheme makes a shambles of that effort to clean up the environment. Putting the pollution you create aside, your scheme sounds a bit nuts. Turning to your neighbor, do you think it would hurt if you stored all those red cans out of sight? -- Dan Espen |
#19
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
On Dec 3, 9:02*am, worker bee wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 23:35:44 +1300, bugalugs wrote: Why can't you fill your car at the gas station like everybody else???. Other than the unexpected inspector visits, it's just so very much easier to fill up once every two months at the filling station. It's all about the sheer convenience of gassing up at home. On a different scale, it's the same reason you get water out of the tap, instead of bringing a bucket to the village well every time you need a drink. Bull****... You think that it is easier to do... Normal people don't store that much gas on their property unless it is in an inspected and licensed tank facility on some sort of commercial or farm type business... In fact what you are doing is clearly asinine and you put yourself at risk of being terribly burned in a car accident at least six times a year since you idiotically decide to transport 50 gallons of gas in your car... If for whatever reason you NEED to keep doing this your way, either buy a containment platform to keep your drum on in case it develops a leak (or you neighbor decides to damage it in some way so it leaks, then calls in to report fumes and seeing the drum wet/leaking which would result in a Hazmat response to your house and expensive environmental cleanup costs) OR buy two UL approved flammable liquids storage cabinets and store 5 of the 5 gallon containers in each cabinet inside your garage... Yet you keep doing this knowing that your neighbors clearly object to it... You are setting yourself up to be in a position where even if someone commits an act of arson or some vandalism against you, you will end up having to pay for the damages it caused anyone else as you chose to store that large a quantity of fuel on your property when if you look at everyone else on your street, they probably have no more than 2 or 5 gallons of gas in a container and a 20 pound propane tank for a grill... |
#20
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsinresidential property
On 12/3/2011 4:02 AM, worker bee wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 23:35:44 +1300, bugalugs wrote: Why can't you fill your car at the gas station like everybody else???. Other than the unexpected inspector visits, it's just so very much easier to fill up once every two months at the filling station. Not having to go to the gas station ever again is one of the great appeals of all-electric cars. These days, going to the gas station is a big drag. It's all about the sheer convenience of gassing up at home. On a different scale, it's the same reason you get water out of the tap, instead of bringing a bucket to the village well every time you need a drink. |
#21
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsinresidential property
bugalugs wrote:
Do you handle a lot of gas cans (moving them around) on your property? Once a month or so, I fill the 10 5-gallon portable gasoline containers at a filling station and use them to refill the 55-gallon drum. Why can't you fill your car at the gas station like everybody else???. Yea, I think that's what we're all trying to figure out at this point. His neighbor was looking for a reason to call the authorities on him, and didn't have to look far. There's only 2 reasons why someone might want to maintain a small store of gas in his backyard: 1) It's a long way to the gas station, and you're going to burn a lot of gas going there just to get your gas. So get as much as you can in one trip and bring it all home for re-distribution. 2) You want to save a few bucks by buying gas when the price is low. It's just that you want to buy a LOT of gas when the price is low - enough to last you a month. I can't see either reason as being lucrative enough to justify the hassle and the up-front cost in the tanks and pump. The additional risk of having a large gas tank on your property is hard to quantify - and just remember that it becomes more dangerous from an explosion pov the more empty it gets. Oh - your home insurance company might not like seeing this tank on your property - you might want to check your insurance contract to see if there's a limit as to how much gas they'll let you store before they void the contract. If your neighbor was creative enough, he might try to figure out who your property is insured with and give them an anonymous call... |
#22
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsinresidential property
On Dec 3, 9:30*am, Home Guy wrote:
bugalugs wrote: Do you handle a lot of gas cans (moving them around) on your property? Once a month or so, I fill the 10 5-gallon portable gasoline containers at a filling station and use them to refill the 55-gallon drum. Why can't you fill your car at the gas station like everybody else???. Yea, I think that's what we're all trying to figure out at this point. His neighbor was looking for a reason to call the authorities on him, and didn't have to look far. There's only 2 reasons why someone might want to maintain a small store of gas in his backyard: 1) It's a long way to the gas station, and you're going to burn a lot of gas going there just to get your gas. *So get as much as you can in one trip and bring it all home for re-distribution. 2) You want to save a few bucks by buying gas when the price is low. It's just that you want to buy a LOT of gas when the price is low - enough to last you a month. I can't see either reason as being lucrative enough to justify the hassle and the up-front cost in the tanks and pump. *The additional risk of having a large gas tank on your property is hard to quantify - and just remember that it becomes more dangerous from an explosion pov the more empty it gets. I can think of another reason. How about he's not buying the gas at a gas station but stealing it from some jobsite? |
#23
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsinresidential property
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 09:30:36 -0500, Home Guy wrote:
There's only 2 reasons why someone might want to maintain a small store of gas in his backyard: 1) It's a long way to the gas station, and you're going to burn a lot of gas going there just to get your gas. So get as much as you can in one trip and bring it all home for re-distribution. 2) You want to save a few bucks by buying gas when the price is low. It's just that you want to buy a LOT of gas when the price is low - enough to last you a month. How about: 3) He has a lot of off road vehicles to fuel up. ATV, snowmobile, tractor, etc. As for filling up the family sedan, I hate pumping gas once so I'll be damned if I'm going to do it twice. We do have a few full service station in central MA though, lowest prices around too! Here in CT it is 3.53 if I pump it myself. Across the border, I can have it pumped for me and pay 3.31. OK, that brings up reason 4). He buys a large quantity when traveling to another state with cheaper gas and saves $25 a load. |
#24
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsinresidential property
3) your town does power cuts, and you are tired of having to drive to east
no where to find a station with power, and then sit for an hour to get your turn at the pump. 3a) for the gas to get to work 3b) for the gas to run your generator 4) you're in hurricane country, and want to be able to evacuate, without the hour long wait for gasoline at the station. 5) you have a big back yard, and it takes more than a tank of gas to mow the lawn 6) you're mistrustful of the JIT system, and want your own reserve of fuel Christopher A. Young Read the Book of Mormon! "Home Guy" wrote in message ... There's only 2 reasons why someone might want to maintain a small store of gas in his backyard: 1) It's a long way to the gas station, and you're going to burn a lot of gas going there just to get your gas. So get as much as you can in one trip and bring it all home for re-distribution. 2) You want to save a few bucks by buying gas when the price is low. It's just that you want to buy a LOT of gas when the price is low - enough to last you a month. |
#25
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsinresidential property
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 09:30:36 -0500, Home Guy wrote:
1) It's a long way to the gas station 2) You want to save a few bucks There are a lot of good reasons not to transport & then store gasoline at home for sure. Valid reasons NOT to transport & store gasoline in legal amounts: * Dangerous (for all) * Tedious (for some) * Cost savings are probably around zero over time (multiple things considered) Some potential reasons to transport & store gasoline in legal amounts: * The wife loves not having to fill up (& hates anyone touching her car) * It's convenient for me also (I don't mind what others invariablly seem to consider too much effort) * The additional danger 'can' be managed |
#26
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsinresidential property
Sounds to me like you are ALREADY getting back at your neighbor, with
all that fussing over gasoline going on next door to him. -- Often wrong, never in doubt. Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org |
#27
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsin residential property
worker bee wrote: Interesting story just developed over the past two months that I figured I'd let you know about in case it happens to you. For about five years, I've been in an unfriendly situation with my nearest neighbor (over past events with the kids getting into trouble and barking loose dogs). Then, the past two months, no less than 5 inspectors came to my property to check for hazardous conditions due to 'anonymous' complaints. The first was the fire marshall who was told I had 'large gasoline tanks' on the property. Turns out, fuel containers of fewer than 60 gallons each are exempt from fire marshall permit needs (a permit application alone, he told me, is over $750). That didn't strike me as too weird until the zoning guys dropped by. They said someone complained about an improper 'accessory structure' used to house gasoline. Turns out any accessory structure that is six feet from the property line meets zoning requirements, so he left me alone. It started to get weirder when the building inspector showed up for the same reason (don't these guys talk to each other?). He too left empty handed. Apparently an accessory structure only needs a permit if it's greater than 120 square feet and if its highest point is greater than 14 feet tall. I knew someone had it in for me when, a month later, my wife called me at work to say there was a guy snooping around the property without even knocking on the door! She called the police and then called me! Turns out, it was a hazmat inspector who had received a complaint about a 'primary container' leaking with no 'secondary containment' in place. He left before I arrived but told my wife that there was nothing he could or would do unless it was actually leaking as there are no storage regulations for private property other than you can't actually leak gasoline into the ground. He did suggest a 'secondary containment' of an oblong horse trough though. I rushed home early from work to find both the police and yet another inspector talking to my wife in the back yard. This inspector was from the air quality management district. He said that organic fuel gas tanks less than 260 gallons were exempt from vapor recovery& pressure venting requirements, so he left before the cop finished asking questions. The cop seemed amused by the whole story - but he asked a LOT of questions about the gas cans lying around. Turns out that you can't transport anything heavier (yes, heavier) than 500 pounds of "fuel" in a vehicle (not counting the vehicle's gasoline tank itself) which he said was 62 gallons of gasoline (#11160 title 13 California Code of Regulations& 32000.5a California Vehicle Code). He also mentioned that 172.504c Title 49 of the code of Federal Regulations requires a placard if you carry more than 1,000 pounds of gasoline. Since I'm only carrying about 50 gallons, I'm exempt from that too! All in all, an interesting story. Now, I do have a sense of humor so I have to figure out how I can get my neighbor back. Have you ever engaged in these type of neighborly wars? Any good ideas? Hmmm 60 gal. of gas is more tan a big drumful. How come so much gas. in the yard? Gas blend changes from season to season. |
#28
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsinresidential property
worker bee wrote:
For about five years, I've been in an unfriendly situation with my nearest neighbor Tony Hwang wrote: Hmmm 60 gal. of gas is more tan a big drumful. Which got me thinking: You'd better clear-out all that gas, because the next step your neighbor is likely to take is to throw a cigarette at it. |
#29
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsinresidential property
Home Guy wrote: worker bee wrote: For about five years, I've been in an unfriendly situation with my nearest neighbor Tony Hwang wrote: Hmmm 60 gal. of gas is more tan a big drumful. Which got me thinking: You'd better clear-out all that gas, because the next step your neighbor is likely to take is to throw a cigarette at it. Hmm, OP better have some special coverage on his house insurance. I have two small portable cans, one with regular gas, one for 2 cycle engine stored in my tool shed. |
#30
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsinresidential property
On 12/3/2011 2:04 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Home Guy wrote: worker bee wrote: For about five years, I've been in an unfriendly situation with my nearest neighbor Tony Hwang wrote: Hmmm 60 gal. of gas is more tan a big drumful. Which got me thinking: You'd better clear-out all that gas, because the next step your neighbor is likely to take is to throw a cigarette at it. Hmm, OP better have some special coverage on his house insurance. I have two small portable cans, one with regular gas, one for 2 cycle engine stored in my tool shed. Same here. I can't imagine what the convenience might be of filling cans to bring home to dump into another container to then pump into the car when I can just pull into a gas station and have the cars tank filled and occasionally fill the small cans that I use for the mower and the weedwacker. |
#31
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 23:25:05 -0500, Home Guy wrote:
the next step your neighbor is likely to take is to throw a cigarette at it. Cigarettes don't light liquid gasoline like they do in the movies, simply because a cigarette is about 475°F (plus or minus 25°F) while the ignition temperature of liquid gasoline is just slightly above that at around 500°F. So, of course a very hot cigarette 'could' ignite liquid gasoline - but not one thrown over the fence at me by my neighbor! Fire is, of course, the biggest realistic danger. Everyone manages that risk daily - for example, a one-car garage has roughly 20 gallons of gasoline in it in metal or plastic gas tanks; a two car garage has about 40, and a three-car garage has about 60 gallons of gasoline in them all the time. It's way more dangerous to have gasoline in a garage than outside, in a very airy structure to keep sun and water off the equipment. My gasoline is kept outside, in a very well ventilated shed (it's almost not a shed, it's that well ventilated). Gas fumes in and of themselves are not flammable but when mixed with air, then of course, they're highly flammable in the right concentration near the floor of any enclosure. The biggest danger is static electricity igniting fumes. This can happen while fueling the vehicles at roughly 15 gallons per minute from the automatic-shut-off 1/4 HP 12VDC electric fuel transfer pump. To ward that off, the setup is well grounded, of course, with two copper rods (for redundancy), and a 10BC fire extinguisher is always nearby, just in case. But a home filling station is no more dangerous than a commercial gasoline filling station is, and, in fact, less dangerous if the puny amounts of gasoline (55 gallons) are taken into account. |
#32
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsin residential property
In article , Home Guy wrote:
worker bee wrote: For about five years, I've been in an unfriendly situation with my nearest neighbor Tony Hwang wrote: Hmmm 60 gal. of gas is more tan a big drumful. Which got me thinking: You'd better clear-out all that gas, because the next step your neighbor is likely to take is to throw a cigarette at it. But that is arson and that is something you can back at the neighbor. -- People thought cybersex was a safe alternative, until patients started presenting with sexually acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz |
#33
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsin residential property
Home Guy wrote:
worker bee wrote: For about five years, I've been in an unfriendly situation with my nearest neighbor Tony Hwang wrote: Hmmm 60 gal. of gas is more tan a big drumful. Which got me thinking: You'd better clear-out all that gas, because the next step your neighbor is likely to take is to throw a cigarette at it. A burning cigarette will not ignite gasoline. But your point is well taken; a thrown railroad flare will do the trick. |
#34
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
On Dec 3, 4:14*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Home Guy wrote: worker bee wrote: For about five years, I've been in an unfriendly situation with my nearest neighbor Tony Hwang wrote: Hmmm 60 gal. of gas is more tan a big drumful. Which got me thinking: *You'd better clear-out all that gas, because the next step your neighbor is likely to take is to throw a cigarette at it. A burning cigarette will not ignite gasoline. But your point is well taken; a thrown railroad flare will do the trick. Horse ****! A burning cigarett _will_ ignite gas fumes. Yes, you can put out a cigarette in a bucket of gas but you better know what the conditions are. 1. Must be cold weather. 2. Bucket must be absolutely full. Fumes are what starts the fire. Harry K |
#35
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
On Dec 2, 9:25*pm, Home Guy wrote:
worker bee wrote: For about five years, I've been in an unfriendly situation with my nearest neighbor Tony Hwang wrote: Hmmm 60 gal. of gas is more tan a big drumful. Which got me thinking: *You'd better clear-out all that gas, because the next step your neighbor is likely to take is to throw a cigarette at it. We once had a fire started near our garage by an unknwon arsonist. The fire threatened two homes [ours & adjoining neighbor's] took out two buildings [including our garage] and three trees 40+ ft high trees with trunks so big two people would have to join arms to surround the trunks. The flames were 60 to 80 feet in the air and photos made national coverage. The fire was so involved one could easily get 3rd degree burns being near it. In other words, BIG FIRE! Inside the garage on a shelf was a metal, federally approved, 5 gallon gasoline container half full of petrol. The car in the garage was totaled, the paint all over the can burnt black and peeled off, but that can, and its contents, remained intact! The firemen were VERY skittish about its presence. So now I'm convinced to ALWAYS buy and use METAL fuel storage containers, those things work! Footnote on the garage damage the garage was originally built for Model T, pre code construction, all redwood. The fire damaged the building so much it was of cousre condemned as dangerous, labeled such and the cost/burden to destroy the structure fell upon me. I hired a worker skilled at demolition and it took him TWO DAYS to dismantle the building, it was holding together that well. Probably could have simply shingled over the roof and used it for another 80 years. Oh well. |
#36
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstationsin residential property
On Dec 5, 11:43*am, Robert Macy wrote:
On Dec 2, 9:25*pm, Home Guy wrote: worker bee wrote: For about five years, I've been in an unfriendly situation with my nearest neighbor Tony Hwang wrote: Hmmm 60 gal. of gas is more tan a big drumful. Which got me thinking: *You'd better clear-out all that gas, because the next step your neighbor is likely to take is to throw a cigarette at it.. We once had a fire started near our garage by an unknwon arsonist. The fire threatened two homes [ours & adjoining neighbor's] took out two buildings [including our garage] and three trees 40+ ft high trees with trunks so big two people would have to join arms to surround the trunks. The flames were 60 to 80 feet in the air and photos made national coverage. *The fire was so involved one could easily get 3rd degree burns being near it. In other words, BIG FIRE! *Inside the garage on a shelf was a metal, federally approved, 5 gallon gasoline container half full of petrol. *The car in the garage was totaled, the paint all over the can burnt black and peeled off, but that can, and its contents, remained intact! *The firemen were VERY skittish about its presence. *So now I'm convinced to ALWAYS buy and use METAL fuel storage containers, those things work! Footnote on the garage damage the garage was originally built for Model T, pre code construction, all redwood. *The fire damaged the building so much it was of cousre condemned as dangerous, labeled such and the cost/burden to destroy the structure fell upon me. I hired a worker skilled at demolition and it took him TWO DAYS to dismantle the building, it was holding together that well. *Probably could have simply shingled over the roof and used it for another 80 years. *Oh well. The can didnt blow up because the air-fuel mixture was too rich to ignite. Heating it just made it more so. Fumes escaping from the can probably did burn as they mixed with air and was ignited. Jimmie |
#37
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline fillingstations in residential property
On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 20:45:40 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
60 gal. of gas is more tan a big drumful. How come so much gas. in the yard? Gas blend changes from season to season. Actually, it's a 55 gallon drum and I don't seem to get even 50 gallons into it, strangely enough. But I generally fill it before it goes empty so I haven't filled it from empty since it was new a few years ago. I use the gas up within two months (generally a month to a month and a half is when I refill) so I really doubt the seasons matter all that much - especially in California where there is really only one, maybe two at most, seasons anyway. There is a cool dry summer and a slightly cooler wetter winter - neither of which has a temperature swing you can't get in a single day in most other northern parts of the country. My gas tank is about 20 gallons. The wife's tank is about 20 gallons. The bike is about 5 gallons. And the lawn mower and a half dozen other engines around the yard takes another 5 gallons. So, a single fillup (which in practice rarely happens) will empty out the 55-gallon drum. I don't see how this amount is any different than most of you out there. Don't you guys have a car for you, and one for the wife, and maybe a secondary vehicle? Don't you have lawn mowers? Don't you have other yard equipment? I would think 55 gallons is the bare minimum since all it does is fill the tanks just once. What I 'really' want is TWO 55 gallon drums. Actually, I'd love a 200 gallon tank - but once you get over 60 gallons, you start getting into fire marshall permits & transportation permits and anything over 260 gallons for delivered fuel gets you into air resource board requirements. So, 55 gallons seems a bare minimum, at least to me. Maybe you guys go to the gas station a lot more than I do? Or you and your wife drive the same car? |
#38
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsin residential property
On Dec 3, 3:38*am, worker bee wrote:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 20:45:40 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote: 60 gal. of gas is more tan a big drumful. How come so much gas. in the yard? Gas blend changes from season to season. Actually, it's a 55 gallon drum and I don't seem to get even 50 gallons into it, strangely enough. But I generally fill it before it goes empty so I haven't filled it from empty since it was new a few years ago. I use the gas up within two months (generally a month to a month and a half is when I refill) so I really doubt the seasons matter all that much - especially in California where there is really only one, maybe two at most, seasons anyway. There is a cool dry summer and a slightly cooler wetter winter - neither of which has a temperature swing you can't get in a single day in most other northern parts of the country. My gas tank is about 20 gallons. The wife's tank is about 20 gallons. The bike is about 5 gallons. And the lawn mower and a half dozen other engines around the yard takes another 5 gallons. So, a single fillup (which in practice rarely happens) will empty out the 55-gallon drum. I don't see how this amount is any different than most of you out there. Don't you guys have a car for you, and one for the wife, and maybe a secondary vehicle? Don't you have lawn mowers? Don't you have other yard equipment? I would think 55 gallons is the bare minimum since all it does is fill the tanks just once. What I 'really' want is TWO 55 gallon drums. Actually, I'd love a 200 gallon tank - but once you get over 60 gallons, you start getting into fire marshall permits & transportation permits and anything over 260 gallons for delivered fuel gets you into air resource board requirements. So, 55 gallons seems a bare minimum, at least to me. Maybe you guys go to the gas station a lot more than I do? Or you and your wife drive the same car? I suspect that with someone who is doing what you say you're doing there is probably plenty more you're doing to **** off your neighbor. I've known a lot of people and seen a lot of things, but I never saw anyone trucking gasoline home in 5 gallon cans and maintaining a 55 gallon drum in their backyard to routinely fill their autos. As for being the same as using a gas station, it's not. Gas stations have been required to have vapor recovery systems for years now. That's why the nozzles now have a rubber covering that must be pressed against the tank for the fuel to flow. As the fuel flows in the system sucks up the vapors that come out as the air is displaced. It prevents those vapors from getting into the air. Is what you're doing a major environmental deal? No, but is sure doesn't help and it sounds pretty loony to me. You also don't say exactly how close the neighbor's house is to where you're storing and pumping this gasoline. He sees you screwing around with at least a 55 gallon drum of gasoline, filling it, pumping it, etc. He doesn't know exactly how much you have or what you are doing. He does know that it sure is strange and I think he had every right to call authorities to make sure it complies with safety regulations. I also suspect there is more to this story than that you use the gasoline to fill your personal automobiles. More likely it's being used for some business, which of course would be a zoning violation. |
#39
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stationsin residential property
On Dec 3, 5:21*am, "
wrote: On Dec 3, 3:38*am, worker bee wrote: On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 20:45:40 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote: 60 gal. of gas is more tan a big drumful. How come so much gas. in the yard? Gas blend changes from season to season. Actually, it's a 55 gallon drum and I don't seem to get even 50 gallons into it, strangely enough. But I generally fill it before it goes empty so I haven't filled it from empty since it was new a few years ago. I use the gas up within two months (generally a month to a month and a half is when I refill) so I really doubt the seasons matter all that much - especially in California where there is really only one, maybe two at most, seasons anyway. There is a cool dry summer and a slightly cooler wetter winter - neither of which has a temperature swing you can't get in a single day in most other northern parts of the country. My gas tank is about 20 gallons. The wife's tank is about 20 gallons. The bike is about 5 gallons. And the lawn mower and a half dozen other engines around the yard takes another 5 gallons. So, a single fillup (which in practice rarely happens) will empty out the 55-gallon drum. I don't see how this amount is any different than most of you out there. Don't you guys have a car for you, and one for the wife, and maybe a secondary vehicle? Don't you have lawn mowers? Don't you have other yard equipment? I would think 55 gallons is the bare minimum since all it does is fill the tanks just once. What I 'really' want is TWO 55 gallon drums. Actually, I'd love a 200 gallon tank - but once you get over 60 gallons, you start getting into fire marshall permits & transportation permits and anything over 260 gallons for delivered fuel gets you into air resource board requirements. So, 55 gallons seems a bare minimum, at least to me. Maybe you guys go to the gas station a lot more than I do? Or you and your wife drive the same car? I suspect that with someone who is doing what you say you're doing there is probably plenty more you're doing to **** off your neighbor. *I've known a lot of people and seen a lot of things, but I never saw anyone trucking gasoline home in 5 gallon cans and maintaining a 55 gallon drum in their backyard to routinely fill their autos. As for being the same as using a gas station, it's not. *Gas stations have been required to have vapor recovery systems for years now. That's why the nozzles now have a rubber covering that must be pressed against the tank for the fuel to flow. As the fuel flows in the system sucks up the vapors that come out as the air is displaced. It prevents those vapors from getting into the air. *Is what you're doing a major environmental deal? *No, but is sure doesn't help and it sounds pretty loony to me. You also don't say exactly how close the neighbor's house is to where you're storing and pumping this gasoline. *He sees you screwing around with at least a 55 gallon drum of gasoline, filling it, pumping it, etc. *He doesn't know exactly how much you have or what you are doing. *He does know that it sure is strange and I think he had every right to call authorities to make sure it complies with safety regulations. I also suspect there is more to this story than that you use the gasoline to fill your personal automobiles. *More likely it's being used for some business, which of course would be a zoning violation.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Or buying _industrial use_ fuel at less tax rate than regular gas. Farmers get a huge break that way but it is very expensive to be caught using it for non-farm purposes. That is why the diesel is dyed. Harry K |
#40
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Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stations in residential property
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