Noon-Air wrote in message ...

Actually you got it totaly wrong... most of us are master HVAC techs,
or
other certified professionals, and owners with a touch of burn-out from
working from can to can't every day. Cheap *******s like you get ****y
when
you call on Sunday afternoon to come fix you broken furnace that has
been
down for 2 weeks, then get ****ed because you have to pay overtime.
Most of
us have our first 40 hours for that week in by Wednesday evening. Our
regular customers know enough to call when they have a problem with
their

Then find a different profession, because I wouldn't want you at my
house under any circumstances buddy. I can live without a heater for a
few days, but I couldn't deal with your type for even one day.

Cheri

blueman wrote in message ...

Interesting how peope from other professions don't seem to have the
same arrogance and selfishness. It's also "ILLEGAL" in many places to
do your own electrical, plumbing, etc. and the ability to cause damage
is at least as high but you don't see those practitioners acting like
a bunch of babies.

Anyone who asks a question is somehow a "cheap *******". Amazing that
even though I specifically said that if it wasn't a DIY fix, I would
be happy to call in a tech.

Another disgruntled prick to add to the kill file...
"Global warming" and the warm winter here in the U.S. must mean that
they all have too much time and too little money on their hands...

ploink

I'm with you there. Unbelievable.

Cheri

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:13:59 -0800, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom
wrote:


Bubba
writes:
Why exactly is it that you homemoaners think you need to "engage" the
service tech? All that does is run your bill up while we waste time
chit chatting on your dime. A good tech really doesnt need to hear a
word from you other than, "the heat doesnt work and its down there in
the basement". If he needs any more than that then he isnt much of a
competent tech.

I've been having the same problem with my heater for the past couple of
months. First tech that came asked me what it's doing. Of course while
he was here it worked perfectly, so he said he couldn't fix it until he
knew what the problem was. Paid him for the service call, but when it
happened again yesterday, I called a different company. Both companies
have been in business in my town for a very long time. Second tech came
and asked what it was doing. Same exact thing, it worked while he was
here, though it hadn't worked for the previous 24 hours. He told me the
same thing as the first tech, but I said no...I want it fixed. I don't
want to keep calling you guys out, pay the service charge, and it's
still a crap shoot as to whether the heater will work. He said he would
order a retrofit kit for $397.00, and charge me the $80.00 service
charge that it would have been yesterday at the time he does that
service. OK, fine, but why didn't either one of them suggest that in the
first place?

Because they were giving you good advice, and when you refused
to accept it, they sold you what you want ( some parts changed ),
instead of what you need ( the unit fixed ).


Do they really think that I want to keep paying a service
charges with no resolution? So techs do ask homeowners questions before
they start, and sometimes they don't make the right suggestions either.

Do you really think service techs are magicians, that can fix
what ain't broke ( when they see it ) ?





Cheri


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
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Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
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writes:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:33:27 GMT, CJT wrote:



CJT - thanks for the positive and constructive comments.
I really don't get some of the guys on alt.hvac. Not only do they have
nothing productive to add, but they immediately go into "asshole" mode.

What you don't 'get' is that we are not here to provide free
help for home-moaners. Get over it.


- If they don't want to help, why do they waste their time responding?

Why do you think we owe you any explanation ? Where do you
get off assuming that YOU set 'the standards and the reasons' for US
to post ? Who the **** are you ?

- Are their egos so low and are they so threatened by an occasional
DIY that they have to go into "attack" mode?
- Do they truly believe that their attitude will win them loyal
customers?

Do you truly think you are 'a potential customer' for anyone
here ? Do you truly think that the home-moaners looking for free
advice are 'potential customers' ? DO you really view the asshole DIY
HM from Ohio as a 'potential customer' for the master tech in
California who only does commercial work ?

Then by your logic, helping the DIY homeowner from another locale is
also no loss to you since you would never have had him as a customer
anyway. You can't have it both ways -- either the person is a
potential customer in which case you should be polite and engaging at
least for your own selfish business reasons, or the person is not a
potential customer in which case what do you care whether you or
someone else gives him free advice that avoids a service call.

Either way why do you waste your time here if you are unwilling to help?
Why don't you get with the rest of the USENET culture which is about
people helping others?

And if you want a newsgroup restricted to so-called "pros", then why
don't you set up your own moderated newsgroup so that you can all
bitch among yourselves.

Finally, if you are as disgruntled as we all suspect and have no interest
in helping DIY homeowners, then why not at least be a mature adult and
ignore it?

In any case the obnoxious responses by some of the so-called
professionals has only doubled my resolve to fix this problem myself. Why
would I want to give business to a bunch of rude and selfish babies
even if they could do it cheaper and better?

But in some ways this is fun, I have never wanted to be a troll
before, but alt.hvac does sound like a good place to go if you want to
get a whole bunch of people aggravated with just a simple post. Maybe
we should all recommend to each of our friends to drop questions to
alt.hvac on a regular basis and then be amused by the responses

"Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom writes:
Noon-Air wrote in message ...

Actually you got it totaly wrong... most of us are master HVAC techs,
or
other certified professionals, and owners with a touch of burn-out from
working from can to can't every day. Cheap *******s like you get ****y
when
you call on Sunday afternoon to come fix you broken furnace that has
been
down for 2 weeks, then get ****ed because you have to pay overtime.
Most of
us have our first 40 hours for that week in by Wednesday evening. Our
regular customers know enough to call when they have a problem with
their

Then find a different profession, because I wouldn't want you at my
house under any circumstances buddy. I can live without a heater for a
few days, but I couldn't deal with your type for even one day.

Cheri

Nice one Cheri -- I couldn't agree more.
The attitude of the so-called pros here has just increased my
commitment to fixing this myself...

"Noon-Air" writes:
"CJT" wrote in message
Actually you got it totaly wrong... most of us are master HVAC techs, or
other certified professionals, and owners with a touch of burn-out from
working from can to can't every day.
The only thing you are "certified" at is a "certified mental case" as
in demonstrably anti-social behavior.

Most of us have our first 40 hours for that week in by Wednesday
evening.

Right, you work 40 hours out of the first 72 hours of the work week,
yet still have hours of free time to spend here insulting
well-intentioned homeowners. The only thing you spend 40 hours of a
week on by Wednesday is surfing the Internet -- and you only do that
because you have the social skills of a rat and about as much chance
of landing steady customers...

wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:27:44 -0600, CJT wrote:


wrote:



- Are their egos so low and are they so threatened by an occasional
DIY that they have to go into "attack" mode?
- Do they truly believe that their attitude will win them loyal
customers?


Do you truly think you are 'a potential customer' for anyone
here ? Do you truly think that the home-moaners looking for free
advice are 'potential customers' ? DO you really view the asshole DIY
HM from Ohio as a 'potential customer' for the master tech in
California who only does commercial work ?



Judging by what I've seen here, it's high time to mandate annual
recertification of HVAC "professionals."


You're not competent to judge any such thing.


Yes, I am. I have seen NO indication here that any of you characters
knows sh*t from Shinola when it comes to HVAC or anything else. You
probably got grandfathered in to begin with, after doing a few years
stoking coal furnaces.

And your evasion of my question is obvious.


You didn't ask me a question.




--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:45:09 GMT, blueman wrote:

writes:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:33:27 GMT, CJT wrote:



CJT - thanks for the positive and constructive comments.
I really don't get some of the guys on alt.hvac. Not only do they have
nothing productive to add, but they immediately go into "asshole" mode.

What you don't 'get' is that we are not here to provide free
help for home-moaners. Get over it.


- If they don't want to help, why do they waste their time responding?

Why do you think we owe you any explanation ? Where do you
get off assuming that YOU set 'the standards and the reasons' for US
to post ? Who the **** are you ?

- Are their egos so low and are they so threatened by an occasional
DIY that they have to go into "attack" mode?
- Do they truly believe that their attitude will win them loyal
customers?

Do you truly think you are 'a potential customer' for anyone
here ? Do you truly think that the home-moaners looking for free
advice are 'potential customers' ? DO you really view the asshole DIY
HM from Ohio as a 'potential customer' for the master tech in
California who only does commercial work ?

Then by your logic, helping the DIY homeowner from another locale is
also no loss to you since you would never have had him as a customer

I never said anything about it being a loss to me' - that
doesn't obligate me to do it.


Either way why do you waste your time here if you are unwilling to help?
Why don't you get with the rest of the USENET culture which is about
people helping others?

Look, you ****y little bitch - I helped START alt.hvac in
1995, an dit wasn't to help home-moaners then or now, and when I want
any ****ing **** from you, I'll squeeze your nasty big ears together.

snip the rest of your crap.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:50:42 GMT, blueman wrote:

**** off, you ****y little bitch.


"Noon-Air" writes:
"CJT" wrote in message
Actually you got it totaly wrong... most of us are master HVAC techs, or
other certified professionals, and owners with a touch of burn-out from
working from can to can't every day.
The only thing you are "certified" at is a "certified mental case" as
in demonstrably anti-social behavior.

Most of us have our first 40 hours for that week in by Wednesday
evening.

Right, you work 40 hours out of the first 72 hours of the work week,
yet still have hours of free time to spend here insulting
well-intentioned homeowners. The only thing you spend 40 hours of a
week on by Wednesday is surfing the Internet -- and you only do that
because you have the social skills of a rat and about as much chance
of landing steady customers...

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:21:54 GMT, CJT wrote:

Blow me, ****.


wrote:

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:27:44 -0600, CJT wrote:


wrote:



- Are their egos so low and are they so threatened by an occasional
DIY that they have to go into "attack" mode?
- Do they truly believe that their attitude will win them loyal
customers?


Do you truly think you are 'a potential customer' for anyone
here ? Do you truly think that the home-moaners looking for free
advice are 'potential customers' ? DO you really view the asshole DIY
HM from Ohio as a 'potential customer' for the master tech in
California who only does commercial work ?



Judging by what I've seen here, it's high time to mandate annual
recertification of HVAC "professionals."


You're not competent to judge any such thing.


Yes, I am. I have seen NO indication here that any of you characters
knows sh*t from Shinola when it comes to HVAC or anything else. You
probably got grandfathered in to begin with, after doing a few years
stoking coal furnaces.

And your evasion of my question is obvious.


You didn't ask me a question.



--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:21:54 GMT, CJT wrote:

snip profanity

I win.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

CJT wrote in message ...
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:21:54 GMT, CJT wrote:

snip profanity

I win.

Yes you did. No contest.

Cheri

blueman writes:

- Are their egos so low and are they so threatened by an occasional
DIY that they have to go into "attack" mode?

Heh, Blueman, you're on the right track... Perhaps not so much
threatened as "taking the opportunity for subject matter bullying."

And boy do they get really ****ed if someone starts making more sense
than them. It's kinda cute, and pathetic all at the same time.
Fascinating psychology in that ng--inmates running the asylum.

"blows but does not heat" would actually be an apt description of
these less-than-helpful and more vocal miscreants in alt.hvac. In an
industry with "professionals" like this, homeowners need to be more
armed than ever with knowledge to help themselves.

Toodles,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

blueman wrote in message ...

But in some ways this is fun, I have never wanted to be a troll
before, but alt.hvac does sound like a good place to go if you want to
get a whole bunch of people aggravated with just a simple post. Maybe
we should all recommend to each of our friends to drop questions to
alt.hvac on a regular basis and then be amused by the responses

Nah, they'd just crosspost that crap back, and it would make their day.
Arrogant, rude people hate it more when you ignore them. Heck, that
gives them no place to use the "scathing remarks" they have at the ready
and it frustrates them. :-)

Cheri
Cheri

snip

fiftysome posts later...

Then by your logic, helping the DIY homeowner from another locale is
also no loss to you since you would never have had him as a customer
anyway. You can't have it both ways -- either the person is a
potential customer in which case you should be polite and engaging at
least for your own selfish business reasons, or the person is not a
potential customer in which case what do you care whether you or
someone else gives him free advice that avoids a service call.

Thats easy. We dont care about some cyber assholes furnace. Call a
local tech. You can make him care with enough money.


Either way why do you waste your time here if you are unwilling to help?

Again, were not here for you. see above

Why don't you get with the rest of the USENET culture which is about
people helping others?

Why dont you join the PEACE Corp and do someone some good yourself!
Take youe whinny friends with you.

And if you want a newsgroup restricted to so-called "pros", then why
don't you set up your own moderated newsgroup so that you can all
bitch among yourselves.

Its more fun to poke fum at cheap assholes like you,

Finally, if you are as disgruntled as we all suspect and have no interest
in helping DIY homeowners, then why not at least be a mature adult and
ignore it?

Please understand. We dont care about you or your furnace.

In any case the obnoxious responses by some of the so-called
professionals has only doubled my resolve to fix this problem myself. Why
would I want to give business to a bunch of rude and selfish babies
even if they could do it cheaper and better?

Thats right cut your nose off to spite your ugly face. We dont care.

But in some ways this is fun, I have never wanted to be a troll
before, but alt.hvac does sound like a good place to go if you want to
get a whole bunch of people aggravated with just a simple post. Maybe
we should all recommend to each of our friends to drop questions to
alt.hvac on a regular basis and then be amused by the responses

Tell them to bring lots of tissues.

blueman3333 posted for all of us...

We have a "York Diamond 90" gas-fired furnace that was working well
until today.


Hey Jeffy is this you???? Google hasn't been invented in Jeffys time... He
is a lazy, stupid, fundy idiot whom needs his psych meds refilled.
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

Oscar_Lives posted for all of us...


Bad thermostat.

Change to a digital thermostat and upgrade the wiring too.


Don't waste your time - it's Jeffy the cross posting idiot only more angry than
most.
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

Bubba posted for all of us...


Why exactly is it that you homemoaners think you need to "engage" the
service tech? All that does is run your bill up while we waste time
chit chatting on your dime. A good tech really doesnt need to hear a
word from you other than, "the heat doesnt work and its down there in
the basement". If he needs any more than that then he isnt much of a
competent tech.
If you want to fix it yourself, pull all the parts off the working
furnace and start putting them on the inoperative furnace one by one
till you get it. Whats the worst that can happen?
Your burn yourself, you asphyxiate yourself or your family, you burn
your house down or you electrocute yourself.
and maybe, just maybe, you might get it right.
Bubba


Don't waste your time - it's Jeffy the cross posting idiot only more angry than
most.
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

"blueman" wrote in message
...


Interesting how peope from other professions don't seem to have the
same arrogance and selfishness. It's also "ILLEGAL" in many places to
do your own electrical, plumbing, etc. and the ability to cause damage
is at least as high but you don't see those practitioners acting like
a bunch of babies.


Hey, if you don't like it here, then HIT THE ****ING ROAD.

This newsgroup doesn't exist to give you pleasure or to fulfill your wants.

Don't come in here preaching and telling us how to act.

HIT THE ****ING ROAD, YOU CHEAP PATHETIC ****Y LITTLE HOMEMOANER.

posted for all of us...


Bubba is big enuf to answer for himself, but actually us guys LOVE to
be called in after a homeowner has ****ed things up royally.

go right ahead and buy all the parts you want and install them
yourself. try getting a warranty on those parts, especially after you
**** them up installing them yourself.

see, this particular ho cant get his story straight. first it fires
for a few seconds then dies, then he says it runs for several mins
then dies. which is it?

Personally I think the best part is the ****ed up design of the York
piece of **** furnace, running the blower 24/7 non stop when the
system goes into fault mode. A real genius at work there.


Don't waste your time - it's Jeffy the cross posting idiot only more angry than
most.
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

posted for all of us...

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:33:27 GMT, CJT wrote:



CJT - thanks for the positive and constructive comments.
I really don't get some of the guys on alt.hvac. Not only do they have
nothing productive to add, but they immediately go into "asshole" mode.

What you don't 'get' is that we are not here to provide free
help for home-moaners. Get over it.


- If they don't want to help, why do they waste their time responding?

Why do you think we owe you any explanation ? Where do you
get off assuming that YOU set 'the standards and the reasons' for US
to post ? Who the **** are you ?

- Are their egos so low and are they so threatened by an occasional
DIY that they have to go into "attack" mode?
- Do they truly believe that their attitude will win them loyal
customers?

Do you truly think you are 'a potential customer' for anyone
here ? Do you truly think that the home-moaners looking for free
advice are 'potential customers' ? DO you really view the asshole DIY
HM from Ohio as a 'potential customer' for the master tech in
California who only does commercial work ?



Don't waste your time - it's Jeffy the cross posting idiot only more angry than
most. I've gone at with this fundy bitch before. He's psycho & off his meds.
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

Oscar_Lives posted for all of us...


I can see why you don't have any guests. They probably know that you do
your own furnace work and they don't want to die from carbon monoxide
poisoning or from a fireball explosion...


I think it's more along the line of his mental (dis)abilities. Of course IF he
has any "guests" they would probably welcome immolation. Think "Bates Motel"
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

"blueman" wrote in message
...
"Dimitrios Paskoudniakis" writes:
"blueman3333" wrote in message
...
We have a "York Diamond 90" gas-fired furnace that was working well
until today.

There seems to be something wrong with the gas flow/valve, burner, or
sensor.

I can see the electronic ignition element turning white hot, then hear
the gas valve click on, then see the blue gas flames light for a
second or two before sputtering out. This cycle repeats itself several
times until, the system "gives up" (or I guess locks out) at which
point the blower just continues to blow cold air forever and no
further ignition attempts are made. The blower continues to blow even
if I shut off the thermostat

Interestingly, if I cycle off the power (even just for a second or
two), the furnace will start up normally and ignite the burners
properly. The burner will continue to fire for a *couple of minutes*
before blowing out at which point it goes into the (failed) cycle of
trying to relight a couple of times before finally giving up and again
leaving me in the stuck state with the blower blowing cold air.

Sometimes in the cycle of trying to re-light it will burn for a
few seconds before sputtering out. Also, sometimes, I hear the valve
clicking on-and-off a couple of times in rapid succession.

Now the other two gas furnaces are working properly, so I don't think
it is a supply problem. Also, I don't think it is a ventillation
problem
because it seems to burn fine for a few minutes with a nice blue flame
before suddenly sputtering out.

When I opened up the bottem panel (overriding the disable switch), I
noticed that after it locked up in the continuous blower position, the
diagnostic LED exhibited a pattern of 8 short (red) flashes -- I
believe
this simply indicates that the flame is lost 5 times within a heating
cycle which according to the online manual indicates either:
Low gas pressure (unlikely since other two gas
furnaces in the house work fine, right?)
Faulty gas valve
Dirty or faulty flame sensor
Faulty hot surface igniter (unlikely because the flame does
ignite, right?)
Burner problem

Any idea what might be wrong and how to fix?

Even if this is not a DIY fix, I would like to have some idea of what
the potential problems could be so that I can intelligently engage the
service person and make sure that I am not being taken

Thanks!

I once had similar symptoms (I have since moved).

I had a condensate pump, and it filled with "gunk" over time. I had a
contractor confirm this was the problem. He removed the pump, took it
outside, took a hose to it, reinstalled, and the problem resolved. Don't
actually know what the failure mechanism was, but this resolved it. It
happened again a year later, but I just cleaned the condensate pump
again.
When I moved, I left a note for the buyers, and included a description
for
them to rinse out the condensate pump about twice a year.

Don't know if this is the same problem as yours, but thought I'd share my
story.

Interesting, do you mean to say that a dirty condensate pump caused
the burner to shut down prematurely and then prevented it form
re-lighting properly? Because if so, I am sure that is the problem
because as mentioned in my subsequent post, I actually just installed
a condesate pump. Not sure how a downstream pump affects upstream
flame but I'm sure that must be it if you say you had the exact same
problem caused by a condensate pump...

I don't know how the dirty condensate caused the problem either. Once all
the side panels were removed from the furnace, one could see tubes for water
condensate. Perhaps a clog caused a backup, but I don't know how that would
cause the symptoms my furnace had.

Still it sounds similar. I just remembered that mine got worse when it
would run for a long while. I had a digital programmable thermostat, and we
had the temperature set lower overnight. When it came time to warm up the
temperature by the time we awoke, after running for a long enough period, I
would hear a rapid clicking noise coming from the furnace, then I saw the
flame go out. I would hear the motor continue to run for a little while
longer before it would shut off. Then after five minutes the system would
start up again. This was before the temperature reached its new higher set
point where the system should not have yet shut down.

Once we cleaned the condensate pump, the problem seemed to clear. In
addition to summer condensation from the A/C, I diverted central humidifier
wastewater into the condensate pump in the winter, so the pump was used all
year round.

Don't know if this will help, especially since you indicated your pump is
new.

Bubba wrote in
:

Blueballs is actually just another disgruntled reject that was charged
over $100 on a weekend to change his own dirty filter because he was
too lazy and stupid to do it himself. Probably due to the fact that he
is too fat to step away from the keyboard judging from the amount of
blithering posts he has made.
Nice and warm here buddy. Have a nice time replacing parts.
Bubba

Are you actually recommending that a homeowner replace their own filter?
My God, man, it's a FURNACE! IT COULD BLOW UP! It's got VOLTAGE! You
could get ELECTROCUTED!

Bubba wrote in
:

I've been having the same problem with my heater for the past couple
of months. First tech that came asked me what it's doing. Of course
while he was here it worked perfectly, so he said he couldn't fix it
until he knew what the problem was. Paid him for the service call, but
when it happened again yesterday, I called a different company.

Hold it right there Cheri. Why, Why Why would you call another company
when you already paid the first company?
Call the first company back, tell them it is doing the same thing, you
already paid a service call fee yesterday and you would like this
problem resolved.
Any Professional company is going to work with you on this.
You gave the first company no chance at all to fix what it wasnt doing
when you first called.
Maybe you just like ****ing money away?

Maybe the highly experienced HVAC professional didn't tell Cheri that he'd
come out for free if the furnace failed again.

Pinko Flaggo wrote in message ...

Maybe the highly experienced HVAC professional didn't tell Cheri that
he'd
come out for free if the furnace failed again.

No, he didn't, but part of it is my fault for not checking myself to see
if they would.They did bill me, and not ask for money at the time of
service. I sent them a check, and decided that when it happened again, I
would use someone else since I didn't think they knew what they were
doing. The company I am using now does have a six months guarantee, but
I'm not sure they know either. I just know that I don't know, and am
assuming that the retrofit will take care of the problem for now. I
would sooner pay for that than have them keep coming back, waiting
around here for hours for them to actually get here, paying a service
charge, and then..."I can't find anything wrong with it." I hate having
to spend the money, but such is life. I'm old now, and hopefully the
retrofit lasts as long as I do. :-)

Cheri

Judging by what I've seen here, it's high time to mandate annual
recertification of HVAC "professionals."

And your qualified to judge this how??

You're not competent to judge any such thing.


Yes, I am. I have seen NO indication here that any of you characters
knows sh*t from Shinola when it comes to HVAC or anything else. You
probably got grandfathered in to begin with, after doing a few years
stoking coal furnaces.

I sure as hell wasn't grandfathered in, and before you spew any more crap,
maybe you should give your qualifications and certifications, along with all
of your training in the HVAC trade that allows you to make statements like
that. Otherwise, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

And your evasion of my question is obvious.


You didn't ask me a question.




--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Noon-Air wrote:
Judging by what I've seen here, it's high time to mandate annual
recertification of HVAC "professionals."


And your qualified to judge this how??


You're not competent to judge any such thing.


Yes, I am. I have seen NO indication here that any of you characters
knows sh*t from Shinola when it comes to HVAC or anything else. You
probably got grandfathered in to begin with, after doing a few years
stoking coal furnaces.


I sure as hell wasn't grandfathered in,

2 months at the Vo-Tech worked for you, then?

and before you spew any more crap,
maybe you should give your qualifications and certifications, along with all
of your training in the HVAC trade that allows you to make statements like
that. Otherwise, don't let the door hit you on the way out.


And your evasion of my question is obvious.


You didn't ask me a question.



--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .





--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

"blueman" wrote in message
...
"Noon-Air" writes:
"CJT" wrote in message
Actually you got it totaly wrong... most of us are master HVAC techs, or
other certified professionals, and owners with a touch of burn-out from
working from can to can't every day.
The only thing you are "certified" at is a "certified mental case" as
in demonstrably anti-social behavior.

Most of us have our first 40 hours for that week in by Wednesday
evening.

Right, you work 40 hours out of the first 72 hours of the work week,
yet still have hours of free time to spend here insulting
well-intentioned homeowners. The only thing you spend 40 hours of a
week on by Wednesday is surfing the Internet -- and you only do that
because you have the social skills of a rat and about as much chance
of landing steady customers...

Come on down and prove me wrong, or STFU and go away.

CJT wrote:

Noon-Air wrote:

Judging by what I've seen here, it's high time to mandate annual
recertification of HVAC "professionals."



And your qualified to judge this how??


You're not competent to judge any such thing.


Yes, I am. I have seen NO indication here that any of you characters
knows sh*t from Shinola when it comes to HVAC or anything else. You
probably got grandfathered in to begin with, after doing a few years
stoking coal furnaces.



I sure as hell wasn't grandfathered in,


2 months at the Vo-Tech worked for you, then?


Upon researching, I see it takes a year (longer if you're slow):

http://www.northseattle.edu/info/new...cle.php?id=193

and before you spew any more crap,

maybe you should give your qualifications and certifications, along
with all of your training in the HVAC trade that allows you to make
statements like that. Otherwise, don't let the door hit you on the way
out.


And your evasion of my question is obvious.


You didn't ask me a question.



--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .








--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

"CJT" wrote in message
...
Noon-Air wrote:
Judging by what I've seen here, it's high time to mandate annual
recertification of HVAC "professionals."


And your qualified to judge this how??


You're not competent to judge any such thing.


Yes, I am. I have seen NO indication here that any of you characters
knows sh*t from Shinola when it comes to HVAC or anything else. You
probably got grandfathered in to begin with, after doing a few years
stoking coal furnaces.


I sure as hell wasn't grandfathered in,

2 months at the Vo-Tech worked for you, then?

and before you spew any more crap,
maybe you should give your qualifications and certifications, along with
all of your training in the HVAC trade that allows you to make statements
like that. Otherwise, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Welcome to my killfile troll

Noon-Air wrote:

"CJT" wrote in message
...

Noon-Air wrote:

Judging by what I've seen here, it's high time to mandate annual
recertification of HVAC "professionals."


And your qualified to judge this how??



You're not competent to judge any such thing.


Yes, I am. I have seen NO indication here that any of you characters
knows sh*t from Shinola when it comes to HVAC or anything else. You
probably got grandfathered in to begin with, after doing a few years
stoking coal furnaces.


I sure as hell wasn't grandfathered in,

2 months at the Vo-Tech worked for you, then?

and before you spew any more crap,

maybe you should give your qualifications and certifications, along with
all of your training in the HVAC trade that allows you to make statements
like that. Otherwise, don't let the door hit you on the way out.


Welcome to my killfile troll



I found something else interesting while researching HVAC certification.

At:

http://www.natex.org/

(the certifying organization), they advise homeowners as follows:

"Your home’s heating and cooling system is a significant investment that
will contribute to your comfort for many years. Protect that investment
by having it regularly serviced by a knowledgeable, certified technician.

During a service call or annual inspection, remind a technician to:

1. Check fresh air grilles and louvers

2. Inspect burners for rust, dirt, or signs of water"

etc. One would think a certified HVAC tech would know that, but the
alleged experts here suggest instead that the homeowner keep quiet.

Quite a discrepancy, if you ask me.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

CJT wrote in message ...

I found something else interesting while researching HVAC
certification.

At:

http://www.natex.org/

(the certifying organization), they advise homeowners as follows:

"Your home’s heating and cooling system is a significant investment
that
will contribute to your comfort for many years. Protect that investment
by having it regularly serviced by a knowledgeable, certified
technician.

During a service call or annual inspection, remind a technician to:

1. Check fresh air grilles and louvers

2. Inspect burners for rust, dirt, or signs of water"

etc. One would think a certified HVAC tech would know that, but the
alleged experts here suggest instead that the homeowner keep quiet.

Quite a discrepancy, if you ask me.

LOL, yep.

Cheri

writes:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:50:42 GMT, blueman wrote:

**** off, you ****y little bitch.

Lmao at your pathetic profanity - I win!

ploink!

Newsgroups: alt.home.repair,alt.hvac
Subject: FIXED!!!!!: Furnace blows but does not heat (intermittent problem)
References:
From: blueman3333
--text follows this line--
blueman3333 writes:
We have a "York Diamond 90" gas-fired furnace that was working well
until today.

There seems to be something wrong with the gas flow/valve, burner, or
sensor.

I can see the electronic ignition element turning white hot, then hear
the gas valve click on, then see the blue gas flames light for a
second or two before sputtering out. This cycle repeats itself several
times until, the system "gives up" (or I guess locks out) at which
point the blower just continues to blow cold air forever and no
further ignition attempts are made. The blower continues to blow even
if I shut off the thermostat

Interestingly, if I cycle off the power (even just for a second or
two), the furnace will start up normally and ignite the burners
properly. The burner will continue to fire for a *couple of minutes*
before blowing out at which point it goes into the (failed) cycle of
trying to relight a couple of times before finally giving up and again
leaving me in the stuck state with the blower blowing cold air.

Sometimes in the cycle of trying to re-light it will burn for a
few seconds before sputtering out. Also, sometimes, I hear the valve
clicking on-and-off a couple of times in rapid succession.

Now the other two gas furnaces are working properly, so I don't think
it is a supply problem. Also, I don't think it is a ventillation problem
because it seems to burn fine for a few minutes with a nice blue flame
before suddenly sputtering out.

When I opened up the bottem panel (overriding the disable switch), I
noticed that after it locked up in the continuous blower position, the
diagnostic LED exhibited a pattern of 8 short (red) flashes -- I believe
this simply indicates that the flame is lost 5 times within a heating
cycle which according to the online manual indicates either:
Low gas pressure (unlikely since other two gas
furnaces in the house work fine, right?)
Faulty gas valve
Dirty or faulty flame sensor
Faulty hot surface igniter (unlikely because the flame does
ignite, right?)
Burner problem

Any idea what might be wrong and how to fix?

Even if this is not a DIY fix, I would like to have some idea of what
the potential problems could be so that I can intelligently engage the
service person and make sure that I am not being taken

Thanks!

No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.

It was a great learning experience -- I learned a lot about furnace
drainage and controls. Best of all, I didn't have to hire any of those
ARROGANT ASSHOLE types that seem to infest this newsgroup.

Only cost to me was my time -- I didn't asphyxiate
myself, blow up the house, or even break anything! Imagine that a
stupid homeowner can actually fix something without bowing to the gods
of alt.hvac.

In all seriousness, I do want to thank the disgruntled alt.hvac pros
because without their bull****, I might actually have given up and
called a tech. But they offered a challenge that I just couldn't
refuse.

So, please if you are a handy homeowner, don't be scared off by these
nitwits. HVAC repair is far from rocket science -- just a little basic
plumbing and electricity. Now to tell the truth, I would probably
never take apart a gas connection because that stuff (along with
roofing) actually scares me, but the rest is easy -- I mean I was
building more complicated electrical control circuits back in grade
school. Just remember that the only reason they bark so loud is that
they are afraid you may actually look inside an HVAC unit and realize
how simple it is and then you may realize that they are just a bunch
of overpaid and overpampered high school graduates (if that).

Anyway, enough of the gloat.
Here are the details of what I believe went wrong and what I did to
fix it in case someone else has a similar problem in the future...

Issue ended up being a problem with condensate drainage (thanks
Dmitrios for the hint based on your experience). The actual cause of it
shutting off was that the inducer pressure switch was triggered
(thanks Tony Hwang).

It Really ended up being two contributing problems. First, the flexible
rubber condensate tube leading from the exhaust side of the ventor
motor to the internal trap (black plastic manifold where 3 condensate
drain lines meet before exiting the furnace) was FILLED with particles
-- so much so that the entire line was blocked solid. Some of these
particles had also started to clog the trap. I couldn't believe how
much crap was there!

Interestingly, despite the clog which presumably had been there for a
while, the system still worked until I added the condensate pump last
week. In the installation, the last couple of feet of the flexible
tubing sloped upwards (after dropping about 20 feet). My guess is that
this created a second water trap that aggravated the more proximal
blockage within the furnace.

In any case, I cleaned out all the condensate tubing inside the
furnace and shortened the final stretch of tubing leading to the
condensate pump so that it slopes down almost vertically into the pump
tank.

All works PERFECTLY now -- ran the furnace for about 2 hours straight
and didn't get a hiccup.

Now contrast that satisfying learning experience with what one might
exect calling in a repair man. Based on my experience with the average
quality of technicians today, they probably would have first tried to
replace everything that moved -- e.g., "lets' try a new pressure
switch" or "how about a new ventor motor" etc... This would take at
least two visits since they would of course have to go order and get
the part. After paying for their marked-up parts and labor, it might
actually have worked for a few days or weeks since just replacing the
parts might have shaken things up a bit.. But then the problem
would inevitably recurr since they wouldn't have fixed the right thing
in the first place. Then they would probably come back to the house a
couple of more times, each time replacing a new part or so. Finally,
they would try to convince me to buy a new furnace since they would
then claim that the problem is a common defect with the model with no
solution and since it is out of warrantee the only choice is to
replace the entire furnace... Sigh... I know the story well and have
seen how it ends...

wack the gas valve with a piece of wood. But this occurs to me only on
my first startup of my old unit

We got PJM we got Bubba we got troll we got disruption

"blueman" wrote in message
...

|
| No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.
|



Just wondering how far you would have got without the advise from some of
the more obliging people in here?

I'd get that OCD problem of yours checked.... you do know there is
medication for it.... don't you?

"Justin" \ writes:

"blueman" wrote in message
...

|
| No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.
|



Just wondering how far you would have got without the advise from some of
the more obliging people in here?

If you read the post, you would see that I thanked people for their
contribution -- even mentioning two people by name.

What I meant is that I didn't need to call in a "tech" which is what
about a dozen people felt they needed to say repeatedly in rather foul
language.


I'd get that OCD problem of yours checked.... you do know there is
medication for it.... don't you?

WTF r u talking about? I thought you had a serious comment...

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:00:01 GMT, blueman wrote:

Interestingly, despite the clog which presumably had been there for a
while, the system still worked until I added the condensate pump last
week.

Bwahahahaha !!!!!

You complete ****ing asshole ! You ****ed with it, you broke
it, and now you run around BRAGGING about finally figuring out what
you ****ed up ????

What a ****ing maroon ......


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