I have had the same problem with HVAC elitism. The best thing you can
do is educate yourself and others about your fix which is exactly what
you did. The HVAC elite are more interested in their pocketbook than
actually helping the general public.

wrote:
I have had the same problem with HVAC elitism. The best thing you can
do is educate yourself and others about your fix which is exactly what
you did. The HVAC elite are more interested in their pocketbook than
actually helping the general public.

You are one stupid SOB... I walked through the debri of what used
to be a Do it yourselfer home yesterday. 2 dead adults and 2 chldren.
In this extreme cold weather.. the equipment takes quite a beating.
So I really suggest up to date equipment and professional maintenance.
And I really could care less which trained/licensed/Insured Tech you
utilize. Here, if the Fire Marshal catches you ****ing with your
furnace..he fines you and then turns you over to the jurisdictions
Building services people. Fines run about $300 a code and safety
violation and usually find about 9 or 10.= Approx $3,000.. And the
Judges don't bargain on safety violations. You can of course get a
permit after passing a HVAC homeowners exam. After which it is inspected
before you can use it. So ****head...Are you going to be safe or sorry?
And don't call me..I am busy... And the lads we send out cost us about
$2,000 each this year alone upgrading their technical education. I don't
suppose it ever occurred to a Moron like you, why there is such a
shortage of HVAC personal in America.. Its a 24 hour a day job... and
Holidays are a thing of the past. The education curve takes in
Electronic, Electric, Low and high pressure plumbing, international fuel
gas codes, not to mention it is damned hard work. I do understand they
are accepting Amateur HVAC experts like yourself in Iraq right now for
$160,000 to $240,000 per annum. Most of us are too busy to go and aren't
smart enough to commit suicide by either insurgents bullet Or Amateur
Furnace Jobs!

blueman wrote:
snip

No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.

It was a great learning experience -- I learned a lot about furnace
drainage and controls. Best of all, I didn't have to hire any of those
ARROGANT ASSHOLE types that seem to infest this newsgroup.

snip

Congratulations on a job well done.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:00:01 GMT, blueman wrote:


Interestingly, despite the clog which presumably had been there for a
while, the system still worked until I added the condensate pump last
week.


Bwahahahaha !!!!!

You complete ****ing asshole ! You ****ed with it, you broke
it, and now you run around BRAGGING about finally figuring out what
you ****ed up ????

What a ****ing maroon ......


Clearly you STILL don't understand the situation with which he dealt.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:04:17 GMT, CJT wrote:

blueman wrote:
snip

No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.

It was a great learning experience -- I learned a lot about furnace
drainage and controls. Best of all, I didn't have to hire any of those
ARROGANT ASSHOLE types that seem to infest this newsgroup.

snip

Congratulations on a job well done.

Yeh, great of job of ****ing up his furnace, and then finally
figuring out his own ****-up a week later.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
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Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
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On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:08:31 GMT, CJT wrote:

wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:00:01 GMT, blueman wrote:


Interestingly, despite the clog which presumably had been there for a
while, the system still worked until I added the condensate pump last
week.


Bwahahahaha !!!!!

You complete ****ing asshole ! You ****ed with it, you broke
it, and now you run around BRAGGING about finally figuring out what
you ****ed up ????

What a ****ing maroon ......


Clearly you STILL don't understand the situation with which he dealt.

The quote of his words above is clear enough. He took a
working furnace, ****ed with it, and it stopped working. It took him
a week to figure out what he ****ed up. THAT is the situation he
dealt with.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

CJT writes:
blueman wrote:
snip
No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.
It was a great learning experience -- I learned a lot about furnace
drainage and controls. Best of all, I didn't have to hire any of those
ARROGANT ASSHOLE types that seem to infest this newsgroup.

snip

Congratulations on a job well done.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Thanks -- you seem to be one of the few gentlemen on the alt.hvac
newsgroup...

"blueman" wrote
No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.

My programmable thermostat had a display on it to call a 800 number. It
wouldn't blow hot air from the gas roof unit.

I called the 800#. A nice tekkie came out. We went out on the roof, and he
pulled a panel. He wiggled a wire, and the thing came on. He said,
"There's your problem. I can't fix it, but all you need to do is stick a
toothpick in there to make it move over for a tighter contact."

He also said it would be a good idea to put in a "smart valve" assembly, and
showed me how to do it. A simple job of about an hour. He told me he has
seen countless toothpick fixes with the homeowner paying $100 for a service
call.

I inserted said toothpick after he left. Well, long story short, the
toothpick is still working.

A smart valve is $100, and $400 installed. I think I will install it myself
when the weather warms up a bit. Until then, it's fine.

There ARE some good hvac guys out there. Just not a lot. I think a lot of
guys who flunk out of used car school become hvacs.

Steve

wrote

Yeh, great of job of ****ing up his furnace, and then finally
figuring out his own ****-up a week later.

Sounds like a perfect description of this news group. Things break, or we
mess them up. We write in for advice, figure it out, and then fix it.
Sometimes it takes a week, while a real pro would take a couple of hours and
CHARGE for a week's time.

Sounds like you are jealous this guy figured it out and fixed it himself.

BTW, you are repeating yourself.

Steve

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:58:23 GMT, blueman wrote:

CJT writes:
blueman wrote:
snip
No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.
It was a great learning experience -- I learned a lot about furnace
drainage and controls. Best of all, I didn't have to hire any of those
ARROGANT ASSHOLE types that seem to infest this newsgroup.

snip

Congratulations on a job well done.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Thanks -- you seem to be one of the few gentlemen on the alt.hvac
newsgroup...

He's NOT on it, asshole, he's on alt.home.repair. And he
dont' know **** ****ING ALL about HVAC.

Go there. Stay there. **** off.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:58:28 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"blueman" wrote
No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.

My programmable thermostat had a display on it to call a 800 number. It
wouldn't blow hot air from the gas roof unit.

I called the 800#. A nice tekkie came out. We went out on the roof, and he
pulled a panel. He wiggled a wire, and the thing came on. He said,
"There's your problem. I can't fix it, but all you need to do is stick a
toothpick in there to make it move over for a tighter contact."

Wow, what a ****ing pro.

He couldn't figure out how to stip back another inch of wire
and double it over ?



He also said it would be a good idea to put in a "smart valve" assembly, and
showed me how to do it. A simple job of about an hour. He told me he has
seen countless toothpick fixes with the homeowner paying $100 for a service
call.

I inserted said toothpick after he left. Well, long story short, the
toothpick is still working.

A smart valve is $100, and $400 installed. I think I will install it myself
when the weather warms up a bit. Until then, it's fine.

Pay your insurance up first. Gas valves and
toothpick-over-rides dont' play well together.



There ARE some good hvac guys out there. Just not a lot. I think a lot of
guys who flunk out of used car school become hvacs.

I think you can suck my dick.





Steve


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

writes:

I think you can suck my d*ck.

Paully, we've been over this befo

No one has time for a search party.

I'm concerned though... why are you so angry? You were breastfed by
your father weren't you? You mother said she only liked you as a
friend? Or did we have that talk too?

XXOO,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

blueman wrote in message ...

All works PERFECTLY now -- ran the furnace for about 2 hours straight
and didn't get a hiccup.

That is great news. I'm happy for you for a couple of reasons. Number
one, that you don't have to spend a lot of money, and you know the other
one. LOL

Cheri

CJT wrote in message ...
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:00:01 GMT, blueman wrote:


Interestingly, despite the clog which presumably had been there for a
while, the system still worked until I added the condensate pump last
week.


Bwahahahaha !!!!!

You complete ****ing asshole ! You ****ed with it, you broke
it, and now you run around BRAGGING about finally figuring out what
you ****ed up ????

What a ****ing maroon ......


Clearly you STILL don't understand the situation with which he dealt.


Clearly he has no reading comprehension skills. :-)

Cheri

Don Ocean wrote in message ...

before you can use it. So ****head...Are you going to be safe or sorry?
And don't call me..I am busy... And the lads we send out cost us about
$2,000 each this year alone upgrading their technical education. I
don't


Well, your being too busy to respond is a blessing, though it's amazing
that you "postal" sounding hvac techs have all this time for newsgroups,
not to help or anything, just as a place to use all the vile language
you learned in your widdle techie school. You people are just laughable.

Cheri

On 17 Jan 2007 12:35:05 -0600, (Todd H.) wrote:

writes:

I think you can suck my d*ck.

Paully, we've been over this befo

No one has time for a search party.

I'm concerned though... why are you so angry? You were breastfed by
your father weren't you? You mother said she only liked you as a
friend? Or did we have that talk too?

XXOO,

Blow it towards my dick, faggot


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

"Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom writes:
blueman wrote in message ...

All works PERFECTLY now -- ran the furnace for about 2 hours straight
and didn't get a hiccup.

That is great news. I'm happy for you for a couple of reasons. Number
one, that you don't have to spend a lot of money, and you know the other
one. LOL

Cheri

Thanks Cheri - I appreciate your support -- you are a rare
gentleman/gentlewoman(?) among the other baboons here...

I just hope that they are not exemplars of the rest of the profession
-- I assume that the good and helpful ones are gainfully employed and
know not to waste their time here among the HVAC "pro" misfits and
wannabees.

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 07:02:58 -0600, Don Ocean
wrote:

wrote:
I have had the same problem with HVAC elitism. The best thing you can
do is educate yourself and others about your fix which is exactly what
you did. The HVAC elite are more interested in their pocketbook than
actually helping the general public.

You are one stupid SOB... I walked through the debri of what used
to be a Do it yourselfer home yesterday. 2 dead adults and 2 chldren.
In this extreme cold weather.. the equipment takes quite a beating.
So I really suggest up to date equipment and professional maintenance.
And I really could care less which trained/licensed/Insured Tech you
utilize. Here, if the Fire Marshal catches you ****ing with your
furnace..he fines you and then turns you over to the jurisdictions
Building services people. Fines run about $300 a code and safety
violation and usually find about 9 or 10.= Approx $3,000.. And the
Judges don't bargain on safety violations. You can of course get a
permit after passing a HVAC homeowners exam. After which it is inspected
before you can use it. So ****head...Are you going to be safe or sorry?
And don't call me..I am busy... And the lads we send out cost us about
$2,000 each this year alone upgrading their technical education. I don't
suppose it ever occurred to a Moron like you, why there is such a
shortage of HVAC personal in America.. Its a 24 hour a day job... and
Holidays are a thing of the past. The education curve takes in
Electronic, Electric, Low and high pressure plumbing, international fuel
gas codes, not to mention it is damned hard work. I do understand they
are accepting Amateur HVAC experts like yourself in Iraq right now for
$160,000 to $240,000 per annum. Most of us are too busy to go and aren't
smart enough to commit suicide by either insurgents bullet Or Amateur
Furnace Jobs!

It's your attitude and your inability to see what an ass you are that
makes me repair my own furnace, and pass along knowledge to others.
My hope is to make as many HVAC scum bags unemployed as I can. My
apologies to the decent HVAC tech's, but you are not one of them.

You are one stupid SOB... I walked through the debri of what used
to be a Do it yourselfer home yesterday. 2 dead adults and 2 chldren.
In this extreme cold weather.. the equipment takes quite a beating.

And you are one arrogant MFer. Get a clue, a lot of DIYers are actually
more competent and intelligent that the so called pros, what makes them
pros is charging people for their service, not some alleged level of
expertise. What makes DIYers out of customers is bad experience with
these pros. When someone charges you $80 to tell you they don't have a
clue, you begin to think; I already don't have a clue, $80 saved. With
a little research, one can easily become familiar with any system, and
with a few successes, competent to perform at least rudimentary
repairs. The reason a lot of things are illegal to repair is simply
lobbyists convincing lawmakers to protect tradesmen, rather than the
public by and large being incompetent.

writes:

On 17 Jan 2007 12:35:05 -0600, (Todd H.) wrote:

writes:

I think you can suck my d*ck.

Paully, we've been over this befo

No one has time for a search party.

I'm concerned though... why are you so angry? You were breastfed by
your father weren't you? You mother said she only liked you as a
friend? Or did we have that talk too?

XXOO,

Blow it towards my dick, faggot

You remain obsessed with your dick Paully. It's not uncommon among
those who feel inadequate, so it's not entirely your fault.

There's also research that suggests that those that run most quickly
to slurs like 'faggot' tend to have unresolved homosexual tendencies
themselves. I bet that wouldn't go over well with your manly men
buddies in the hvac industry though? But... my god, I think we
finally know why you're so angry! Quit running Paul. Be yourself.
Embrace your inner being. You can emerge a butterfly! A beautiful
butterfly!

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

LOL--the juxtaposition of the do-gooder sig and your vitriol is always
heart warming.

I forgot that you're among those animal nuts who are kind to animals
yet entirely inept in interpersonal matters with actual humans. Then
again it's not uncommon either because being kind to something that
won't challenge your behavior is a lot easier than remaining civil to
humans, since they're prone to highlight when yer being a douchebag,
wrong, overweight, neurotic, addicted, deviant, or whatever your vice.
Animals don't demand as much accountability or honesty.

But, hey, at least you're good to some carbon based life form, so it's
a start.

A pleasure as always!

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/

Bubba wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:58:28 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"blueman" wrote

No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.

My programmable thermostat had a display on it to call a 800 number. It
wouldn't blow hot air from the gas roof unit.

I called the 800#. A nice tekkie came out. We went out on the roof, and he
pulled a panel. He wiggled a wire, and the thing came on. He said,
"There's your problem. I can't fix it, but all you need to do is stick a
toothpick in there to make it move over for a tighter contact."

He also said it would be a good idea to put in a "smart valve" assembly, and
showed me how to do it. A simple job of about an hour. He told me he has
seen countless toothpick fixes with the homeowner paying $100 for a service
call.

I inserted said toothpick after he left. Well, long story short, the
toothpick is still working.

A smart valve is $100, and $400 installed. I think I will install it myself
when the weather warms up a bit. Until then, it's fine.

There ARE some good hvac guys out there. Just not a lot. I think a lot of
guys who flunk out of used car school become hvacs.

Steve


Yeah, right. Screw on a new gas valve and plug the wires back in. All
will be well??? Good thing you know about gas pressures, temp rise and
CO levels. No problem there. You're a genius.
Bubba

Speaking of gas, the "professional" who installed our gas range had to
do it three times before he got it right. I think there are a lot of
DIYers who could do better.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

"Steve B" writes:

wrote

Yeh, great of job of ****ing up his furnace, and then finally
figuring out his own ****-up a week later.

Sounds like a perfect description of this news group. Things break, or we
mess them up. We write in for advice, figure it out, and then fix it.
Sometimes it takes a week, while a real pro would take a couple of hours and
CHARGE for a week's time.

Sounds like you are jealous this guy figured it out and fixed it himself.

BTW, you are repeating yourself.

Steve

Actually, I had it fixed well within 24 hours... Faster than I could probably
get a tech out to my house given that it was a non-emergency.

wrote



Pay your insurance up first. Gas valves and
toothpick-over-rides dont' play well together.

That's right.
The smart valves have numerous problems associated with them, one of which
is the faulty circuit board that is being made to function with that
toothpick....another well known issue with them is the valve sticking open
after a call for heat.....but what the hell, toothpicks are cheaper than a
real fix, right???
And the insurance companies and fire marshals probably aren't aware of any
of these problems, right?
That toothpick could end up costing you big bucks....not to mention a
funeral or three.....



--
Respectfully, Bob

CJT wrote




Speaking of gas, the "professional" who installed our gas range had to
do it three times before he got it right. I think there are a lot of
DIYers who could do better.

Let me guess...you got your phone book and called around for the cheapest
quote....serves you right....you'll respond and deny this, of course, but
we've seen it all before...



--
Respectfully, Bob

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:39:12 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 07:02:58 -0600, Don Ocean
wrote:

It's your attitude and your inability to see what an ass you are that
makes me repair my own furnace, and pass along knowledge to others.
My hope is to make as many HVAC scum bags unemployed as I can. My
apologies to the decent HVAC tech's, but you are not one of them.

Don, I bet that one just stung like the dickens, huh ? I mean, him
putting you out of work and all that.

Tnom - you'd have better luck if you set your 'goal' on kissing my
natural born white ass.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:39:12 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 07:02:58 -0600, Don Ocean
wrote:

wrote:
I have had the same problem with HVAC elitism. The best thing you can
do is educate yourself and others about your fix which is exactly what
you did. The HVAC elite are more interested in their pocketbook than
actually helping the general public.

You are one stupid SOB... I walked through the debri of what used
to be a Do it yourselfer home yesterday. 2 dead adults and 2 chldren.
In this extreme cold weather.. the equipment takes quite a beating.
So I really suggest up to date equipment and professional maintenance.
And I really could care less which trained/licensed/Insured Tech you
utilize. Here, if the Fire Marshal catches you ****ing with your
furnace..he fines you and then turns you over to the jurisdictions
Building services people. Fines run about $300 a code and safety
violation and usually find about 9 or 10.= Approx $3,000.. And the
Judges don't bargain on safety violations. You can of course get a
permit after passing a HVAC homeowners exam. After which it is inspected
before you can use it. So ****head...Are you going to be safe or sorry?
And don't call me..I am busy... And the lads we send out cost us about
$2,000 each this year alone upgrading their technical education. I don't
suppose it ever occurred to a Moron like you, why there is such a
shortage of HVAC personal in America.. Its a 24 hour a day job... and
Holidays are a thing of the past. The education curve takes in
Electronic, Electric, Low and high pressure plumbing, international fuel
gas codes, not to mention it is damned hard work. I do understand they
are accepting Amateur HVAC experts like yourself in Iraq right now for
$160,000 to $240,000 per annum. Most of us are too busy to go and aren't
smart enough to commit suicide by either insurgents bullet Or Amateur
Furnace Jobs!

It's your attitude and your inability to see what an ass you are that
makes me repair my own furnace, and pass along knowledge to others.
My hope is to make as many HVAC scum bags unemployed as I can. My
apologies to the decent HVAC tech's, but you are not one of them.


**** off, asshole

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On 17 Jan 2007 12:43:53 -0800, "Eric in North TX"
wrote:

You are one stupid SOB... I walked through the debri of what used
to be a Do it yourselfer home yesterday. 2 dead adults and 2 chldren.
In this extreme cold weather.. the equipment takes quite a beating.

And you are one arrogant MFer. Get a clue, a lot of DIYers are actually
more competent and intelligent that the so called pros, what makes them
pros is charging people for their service, not some alleged level of
expertise. What makes DIYers out of customers is bad experience with
these pros. When someone charges you $80 to tell you they don't have a
clue, you begin to think; I already don't have a clue, $80 saved. With
a little research, one can easily become familiar with any system, and
with a few successes, competent to perform at least rudimentary
repairs. The reason a lot of things are illegal to repair is simply
lobbyists convincing lawmakers to protect tradesmen, rather than the
public by and large being incompetent.

**** off, asshole


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 22:06:31 GMT, CJT wrote:

Bubba wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:58:28 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"blueman" wrote

No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.

My programmable thermostat had a display on it to call a 800 number. It
wouldn't blow hot air from the gas roof unit.

I called the 800#. A nice tekkie came out. We went out on the roof, and he
pulled a panel. He wiggled a wire, and the thing came on. He said,
"There's your problem. I can't fix it, but all you need to do is stick a
toothpick in there to make it move over for a tighter contact."

He also said it would be a good idea to put in a "smart valve" assembly, and
showed me how to do it. A simple job of about an hour. He told me he has
seen countless toothpick fixes with the homeowner paying $100 for a service
call.

I inserted said toothpick after he left. Well, long story short, the
toothpick is still working.

A smart valve is $100, and $400 installed. I think I will install it myself
when the weather warms up a bit. Until then, it's fine.

There ARE some good hvac guys out there. Just not a lot. I thi
nk a lot of
guys who flunk out of used car school become hvacs.

Steve


Yeah, right. Screw on a new gas valve and plug the wires back in. All
will be well??? Good thing you know about gas pressures, temp rise and
CO levels. No problem there. You're a genius.
Bubba

Speaking of gas, the "professional" who installed our gas range had to
do it three times before he got it right. I think there are a lot of
DIYers who could do better.

**** off, asshole


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Steve Scott wrote:

The guy working for SearsLoewsHomeDepot aren't professionals.

This guy was an independent -- not associated with any of the big retailers.


On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 22:06:31 GMT, CJT wrote:


Speaking of gas, the "professional" who installed our gas range had to
do it three times before he got it right. I think there are a lot of
DIYers who could do better.





--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
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Bob_Loblaw wrote:

CJT wrote





Speaking of gas, the "professional" who installed our gas range had to
do it three times before he got it right. I think there are a lot of
DIYers who could do better.


Let me guess...you got your phone book and called around for the cheapest
quote....serves you right....you'll respond and deny this, of course, but
we've seen it all before...



Denied.

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wrote:

profanity snipped

I see you have nothing substantive to say, so "Back atcha, fool."




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"blueman" wrote in message
...
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair,alt.hvac
Subject: FIXED!!!!!: Furnace blows but does not heat (intermittent
problem)
References:
From: blueman3333
--text follows this line--
blueman3333 writes:
We have a "York Diamond 90" gas-fired furnace that was working well
until today.

There seems to be something wrong with the gas flow/valve, burner, or
sensor.

I can see the electronic ignition element turning white hot, then hear
the gas valve click on, then see the blue gas flames light for a
second or two before sputtering out. This cycle repeats itself several
times until, the system "gives up" (or I guess locks out) at which
point the blower just continues to blow cold air forever and no
further ignition attempts are made. The blower continues to blow even
if I shut off the thermostat

Interestingly, if I cycle off the power (even just for a second or
two), the furnace will start up normally and ignite the burners
properly. The burner will continue to fire for a *couple of minutes*
before blowing out at which point it goes into the (failed) cycle of
trying to relight a couple of times before finally giving up and again
leaving me in the stuck state with the blower blowing cold air.

Sometimes in the cycle of trying to re-light it will burn for a
few seconds before sputtering out. Also, sometimes, I hear the valve
clicking on-and-off a couple of times in rapid succession.

Now the other two gas furnaces are working properly, so I don't think
it is a supply problem. Also, I don't think it is a ventillation problem
because it seems to burn fine for a few minutes with a nice blue flame
before suddenly sputtering out.

When I opened up the bottem panel (overriding the disable switch), I
noticed that after it locked up in the continuous blower position, the
diagnostic LED exhibited a pattern of 8 short (red) flashes -- I believe
this simply indicates that the flame is lost 5 times within a heating
cycle which according to the online manual indicates either:
Low gas pressure (unlikely since other two gas
furnaces in the house work fine, right?)
Faulty gas valve
Dirty or faulty flame sensor
Faulty hot surface igniter (unlikely because the flame does
ignite, right?)
Burner problem

Any idea what might be wrong and how to fix?

Even if this is not a DIY fix, I would like to have some idea of what
the potential problems could be so that I can intelligently engage the
service person and make sure that I am not being taken

Thanks!

No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.

It was a great learning experience -- I learned a lot about furnace
drainage and controls. Best of all, I didn't have to hire any of those
ARROGANT ASSHOLE types that seem to infest this newsgroup.

Only cost to me was my time -- I didn't asphyxiate
myself, blow up the house, or even break anything! Imagine that a
stupid homeowner can actually fix something without bowing to the gods
of alt.hvac.

In all seriousness, I do want to thank the disgruntled alt.hvac pros
because without their bull****, I might actually have given up and
called a tech. But they offered a challenge that I just couldn't
refuse.

So, please if you are a handy homeowner, don't be scared off by these
nitwits. HVAC repair is far from rocket science -- just a little basic
plumbing and electricity. Now to tell the truth, I would probably
never take apart a gas connection because that stuff (along with
roofing) actually scares me, but the rest is easy -- I mean I was
building more complicated electrical control circuits back in grade
school. Just remember that the only reason they bark so loud is that
they are afraid you may actually look inside an HVAC unit and realize
how simple it is and then you may realize that they are just a bunch
of overpaid and overpampered high school graduates (if that).

Anyway, enough of the gloat.
Here are the details of what I believe went wrong and what I did to
fix it in case someone else has a similar problem in the future...

Issue ended up being a problem with condensate drainage (thanks
Dmitrios for the hint based on your experience). The actual cause of it
shutting off was that the inducer pressure switch was triggered
(thanks Tony Hwang).

It Really ended up being two contributing problems. First, the flexible
rubber condensate tube leading from the exhaust side of the ventor
motor to the internal trap (black plastic manifold where 3 condensate
drain lines meet before exiting the furnace) was FILLED with particles
-- so much so that the entire line was blocked solid. Some of these
particles had also started to clog the trap. I couldn't believe how
much crap was there!

Interestingly, despite the clog which presumably had been there for a
while, the system still worked until I added the condensate pump last
week. In the installation, the last couple of feet of the flexible
tubing sloped upwards (after dropping about 20 feet). My guess is that
this created a second water trap that aggravated the more proximal
blockage within the furnace.

In any case, I cleaned out all the condensate tubing inside the
furnace and shortened the final stretch of tubing leading to the
condensate pump so that it slopes down almost vertically into the pump
tank.

All works PERFECTLY now -- ran the furnace for about 2 hours straight
and didn't get a hiccup.

Now contrast that satisfying learning experience with what one might
exect calling in a repair man. Based on my experience with the average
quality of technicians today, they probably would have first tried to
replace everything that moved -- e.g., "lets' try a new pressure
switch" or "how about a new ventor motor" etc... This would take at
least two visits since they would of course have to go order and get
the part. After paying for their marked-up parts and labor, it might
actually have worked for a few days or weeks since just replacing the
parts might have shaken things up a bit.. But then the problem
would inevitably recurr since they wouldn't have fixed the right thing
in the first place. Then they would probably come back to the house a
couple of more times, each time replacing a new part or so. Finally,
they would try to convince me to buy a new furnace since they would
then claim that the problem is a common defect with the model with no
solution and since it is out of warrantee the only choice is to
replace the entire furnace... Sigh... I know the story well and have
seen how it ends...



Glad to hear it!

blueman posted for all of us...

Newsgroups: alt.home.repair,alt.hvac
Subject: FIXED!!!!!: Jeffy blows
References:
From: blueman3333
--text follows this line--
blueman3333 writes:
We have a "York Diamond 90" gas-fired furnace that was working well

I swung into action and sucked and blowed - which I have MUCH experience doing...

Well Jeffy, I couldn't have said it better myself.
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

posted for all of us...


"blueman" wrote in message
...

|
| No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.
|



Just wondering how far you would have got without the advise from some of
the more obliging people in here?

I'd get that OCD problem of yours checked.... you do know there is
medication for it.... don't you?

Oh he KNOWS but he's got a lot more problems than that....
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 01:25:56 GMT, CJT wrote:

Bob_Loblaw wrote:

CJT wrote





Speaking of gas, the "professional" who installed our gas range had to
do it three times before he got it right. I think there are a lot of
DIYers who could do better.


Let me guess...you got your phone book and called around for the cheapest
quote....serves you right....you'll respond and deny this, of course, but
we've seen it all before...



Denied.

Now ****ing go away.


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'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
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blueman posted for all of us...

CJT writes:
blueman wrote:
snip
No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.
It was a great learning experience -- I learned a lot about furnace
drainage and controls. Best of all, I didn't have to hire any of those
ARROGANT ASSHOLE types that seem to infest this newsgroup.

snip

Congratulations on a job well done.

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Thanks -- you seem to be one of the few gentlemen on the alt.hvac
newsgroup...

And you seem to be a fundy idiot.
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

wrote:

snip

Now profanity snipped go away.


You first.

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On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:39:15 -0500, "Dimitrios Paskoudniakis"
wrote:



Glad to hear it!


Learn to trim your replies.


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Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
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Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 09:58:28 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"blueman" wrote
No thanks to some of the "pros" here, but I fixed the problem myself.

My programmable thermostat had a display on it to call a 800 number. It
wouldn't blow hot air from the gas roof unit.

I called the 800#. A nice tekkie came out. We went out on the roof, and
he
pulled a panel. He wiggled a wire, and the thing came on. He said,
"There's your problem. I can't fix it, but all you need to do is stick a
toothpick in there to make it move over for a tighter contact."

He also said it would be a good idea to put in a "smart valve" assembly,
and
showed me how to do it. A simple job of about an hour. He told me he has
seen countless toothpick fixes with the homeowner paying $100 for a
service
call.

I inserted said toothpick after he left. Well, long story short, the
toothpick is still working.

A smart valve is $100, and $400 installed. I think I will install it
myself
when the weather warms up a bit. Until then, it's fine.

There ARE some good hvac guys out there. Just not a lot. I think a lot
of
guys who flunk out of used car school become hvacs.

Steve

Yeah, right. Screw on a new gas valve and plug the wires back in. All
will be well??? Good thing you know about gas pressures, temp rise and
CO levels. No problem there. You're a genius.
Bubba


Smart enough to change a smart valve. It ain't rocket surgery. Even a
hvac man could do it.

Steve

"Steve Scott" wrote in message
...
We just serviced a system yesterday and found the air free CO over
800ppm. Went on a no heat call a week ago. Tripped flame roll out.
Air free CO over 2000ppm - couldn't get the meter out quick enough.

99 times out of 100 changing a gas valve is no big deal. You just
have to decide on the chance you want to take. What is scary is there
are a LOT of companies that don't check CO in any case.

We have two digital CO monitors in our house. So, although we don't have
the portable ones, we would know real quick if we had a problem.

The way the smart valve is put on the pipe nipple, and held to the burner
with only four sheet metal screws, it would be impossible to change any of
the configuration there. Turn gas valve ninety degrees, unplug, unscrew,
put on gas tape, screw new valve back on nipple, put four screws back, turn
gas back on, and you're done.

But I guess I could spend $400 for some needy hvac guy to come out here and
do an hours worth of work, and that would include a couple of cigarette
breaks.

Makes about as much sense as paying $700 to get your hot water heater
changed. I changed my own for a little over $250, and that was with a new
pan and blanket.

Steve