We're looking at getting a hot tub. Some of the ones I've look at
have temperature ranges 80-100 degrees F. Is 100F hot enough (I
thought they went to 102 or 104).
---
Replace you know what by j to email

"Jud McCranie" wrote in message
...
We're looking at getting a hot tub. Some of the ones I've look at
have temperature ranges 80-100 degrees F. Is 100F hot enough (I
thought they went to 102 or 104).


RTFM.

IIRC, federal health regulations put the limit at 104. The manual to the
spa will state the temp range.

100 is a common setting. Above that can cause health problems with some
individuals.

Steve

Jud McCranie wrote:
We're looking at getting a hot tub. Some of the ones I've look at
have temperature ranges 80-100 degrees F. Is 100F hot enough (I
thought they went to 102 or 104).
---
Replace you know what by j to email
Hi,
Has to be higher than our typical body temperature.
100F = 37.8C, I'd like to see it goes upto 40C at least.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:CFW%f.19046$WI1.5116@pd7tw2no...
Has to be higher than our typical body temperature.
100F = 37.8C, I'd like to see it goes upto 40C at least.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/redneckhottub.html

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 23:11:17 GMT, Mys Terry
wrote:

You want a tub that will go to 104.

I thought so.

What tub are you looking at that doesn't?

This is one:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4324520
under "control console" it says:
"80F - 100 F temperature settings"

---
Replace you know what by j to email

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:CFW%f.19046$WI1.5116@pd7tw2no...
Jud McCranie wrote:
We're looking at getting a hot tub. Some of the ones I've look at
have temperature ranges 80-100 degrees F. Is 100F hot enough (I
thought they went to 102 or 104).
---
Replace you know what by j to email
Hi,
Has to be higher than our typical body temperature.
100F = 37.8C, I'd like to see it goes upto 40C at least.

40 degrees celsius is 104 degrees Fahrenheit. That is the safe limit for
humans, and the limit set on most spas. But there is also a time limit for
each temperature.

Google hot tub safety and learn. If you are going into a hot tub, or are
setting the temperatures, know what you are doing. There is much more to it
than hot water, and general idiotic statements.

A friend of mine had a heart attack and died after spending too much time in
the hot water at Pah Tempe in Hurricane, Utah.

Steve

"Jud McCranie" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 23:11:17 GMT, Mys Terry
wrote:

You want a tub that will go to 104.

I thought so.

What tub are you looking at that doesn't?

This is one:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4324520
under "control console" it says:
"80F - 100 F temperature settings"

You're looking at a spa from Walmart? Save your money and buy a good one,
or a used one. The ones from Walmart don't last and don't have a lot of
jets.

STeve

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:24:11 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

You're looking at a spa from Walmart? Save your money and buy a good one,
or a used one. The ones from Walmart don't last and don't have a lot of
jets.

We've looked at several places, including four stores (haven't
actually been to WalMart). I think theirs are by this company:
http://www.hydrospa.com/ I'm still looking, but we do have limited
funds.
---
Replace you know what by j to email

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:24:11 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

You're looking at a spa from Walmart? Save your money and buy a good one,
or a used one. The ones from Walmart don't last and don't have a lot of
jets.

What about the ones at Home Depot? (We haven't been there yet
either.)
---
Replace you know what by j to email

"Jud McCranie" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:24:11 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

You're looking at a spa from Walmart? Save your money and buy a good one,
or a used one. The ones from Walmart don't last and don't have a lot of
jets.

We've looked at several places, including four stores (haven't
actually been to WalMart). I think theirs are by this company:
http://www.hydrospa.com/ I'm still looking, but we do have limited
funds.

I bought two Catalina brand spas, both with two pumps, 8x8 for $2500 each
used. Good used spas can be had. Just shop around, and research the brand
names, and stick with the top manufacturers.

Steve

"Jud McCranie" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:24:11 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

You're looking at a spa from Walmart? Save your money and buy a good one,
or a used one. The ones from Walmart don't last and don't have a lot of
jets.

What about the ones at Home Depot? (We haven't been there yet
either.)

I don't like those either. I like the top manufacturers, and that then
limits you to a used spa. Yes, it is attractive to get a nice shiny new
one. But, what kind of parts and service department do WallyWorld and the
Borg have? With brand name spas, you can always get parts. I have changed
heating elements, blown fuses, pumps, and fixed hoses that have come undone.
Never had to pay for a $80 per hour service man. BUT, I was able to go to
the spa supplier and buy the parts.

It's hard to say which is the way to go for you. Just try to get the
most/best for your money.

Hot tubs are great. I enjoy ours a lot.

Steve

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:05:19 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

I don't like those either. I like the top manufacturers, and that then
limits you to a used spa.

I'm not familiar enough with what the top brands are. I saw a
ThermaSpa advertisement last night and called for information, but I
don't know if they are a top brand.

There are only three people in our family, so we don't need one big
enough for seven. However, I want a lounge (most have them) and the
ozonator thing. Some of the lower priced ones seem to have too small
of a pump and heater. I read that you want 240V and at least 40 amps.
---
Replace you know what by j to email

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:05:19 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Jud McCranie" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:24:11 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

You're looking at a spa from Walmart? Save your money and buy a good one,
or a used one. The ones from Walmart don't last and don't have a lot of
jets.

What about the ones at Home Depot? (We haven't been there yet
either.)

I don't like those either. I like the top manufacturers,

Why don't you give the OP some names to look for? What manufacturers
do you consider "top manufacturers"? I have heard negative things
about ThermoSpa not honoring warranties (they advertise heavily on
cable television). In my view, Beachcomber (which I have), Hot
Springs, Marquis, Jacuzzi, and a couple of others qualify as good,
reliable spas.

I have a Baja spa that came with the house. Since I'd never had a spa
before, I hired a "hot tub guy" to come out and show me how to set it
up and maintain it. It turned out he was the same guy who had
installed it (good odds on that in a small town), and he said it was
about 6 years old. It has two pumps and a blower, and will heat to
about 108 degrees, but from experience I have found 100 is the most
comfortable; however, the spa is inside, and I think I would want it a
little warmer if I were using it outside, certainly if in an area where
it gets really cold outside.

Anyway, I don't know much about "top brands" or anything since it was
already here, but this one still works perfectly and looks brand-new;
everyone was astonished to hear it was 6 years old. Either it's been
very well cared for or very lightly used in the past (but boy howdy,
it's been used steadily since I got here!) Of course, it helps that
it's not exposed to the elements.

As far as comfort, I would definitely recommend buying larger than a
3-person spa for 3 people. Mine is a 6-person and while we could put 6
people in it, it's really most comfortable at about 4 people (I think
spa size must be rated by the same people who rate camping tent size).
As far as the jets, you don't want too few, but "more" isn't the only
consideration, either. I would say that the location of the jets is as
important than the sheer number. The lounge feature is definitely
nice.

Good luck with your purchase! The one thing I can say for sure is
you'll never be sorry you've got a spa!

Jo Ann

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 10:57:52 GMT, Mys Terry
wrote:

Thermospa is an excellent brand.

I just realized that there is www.thermaspa.com (with an "a") and
www.theormospas.com (with an "o"). I'm not sure which one I contacted
for info.


Even though you have 3 people to use the spa, I
would recommend buying a bigger one.

Good idea.

Where do you live? Thermo Spas is in Central Connecticut, and they often have
"scratch and dent " sales.

I would go for that, but I'm a long way from that, on coastal Georgia.
---
Replace you know what by j to email

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 13:17:29 GMT, Mys Terry
wrote:

reason Thermospas advertises more that most spa companies is because they sell
factory direct.

That's probably the one I called for information (thermo as opposed to
therma).
---
Replace you know what by j to email

On 15 Apr 2006 08:19:10 -0700, "
wrote:

As far as comfort, I would definitely recommend buying larger than a
3-person spa for 3 people.

I think after the "new" wears off we won't all be using it at the same
time. But I see your point.

The lounge feature is definitely nice.

I've been in those, and I definitely want that.

Good luck with your purchase! The one thing I can say for sure is
you'll never be sorry you've got a spa!

I've been in enough of them to know I will like it.

We have been saving up some money. At first my daughter wanted an
above ground pool. Then last fall I talked her into a hot tub. Now
she and my wife want the pool, but I don't. We've been looking at
both, but looks like we're going to have to get the pool. But we
should have some money left in the account after buying a pool and
that plus our tax refund will go most of the way toward a hot tub too.
---
Replace you know what by j to email

"KLS" wrote


Why don't you give the OP some names to look for? What manufacturers
do you consider "top manufacturers"? I have heard negative things
about ThermoSpa not honoring warranties (they advertise heavily on
cable television). In my view, Beachcomber (which I have), Hot
Springs, Marquis, Jacuzzi, and a couple of others qualify as good,
reliable spas.

In our part of the country, Catalina is tops. The other brand names you
mentioned are good, but I was told by a spa EXPERT that unless you live in
the state that manufacturers them, or you have a dealer near by that they
are hard to get parts for.

I would suggest that the OP, and all others use a thing called Google. It
is a very handy device, kind of like a reference library on steroids. In
it, one can get all sorts of things. I just did a search on "hot tub
ratings" and got 10,300,000 answers in .30 seconds. They range from
Consumer Reports, Pool and Spa News, etc. People who see spas every day.

To suggest any here would not be good. I will suggest Catalina since they
are a standard in the industry. A friend of mine in California has a new
Hot Springs spa, but there is no supplier in my town, so getting parts would
be difficult for me if I owned one here.

Do two things. Count the pumps, and count the jets. Buy one that has at
least two pumps, and one that has the most number of jets. And look for the
Catalina name plate.

Steve

Hi Jud,

The truth is, as with most products, you pretty much get what you pay
for so, personally, I would shy away from the low end. A hot tub is a
major, long-term investment. It's not like a car that you might trade
every three or four years; once in place, it will likely stay there
for sometime to come.

Buy from a reputable spa dealer, not a mass merchant that knows little
about the products they sell or how well they might fit your specific
needs and expectations. Bear in mind, mass merchants can change
manufacturers/brands at anytime, as they typically source from the
lowest cost supplier and routinely put these products up for bid.
Likewise, I would avoid buying from anyone that sets up a tent at the
local fair ground, then pulls up the stakes to move on to the next
town. I can tell you that no matter how well built your tub may be,
there will be issues/problems that will arise from time to time and
you will, of course, require various replacement parts (e.g., filters)
over the life of the product.

Ask your friends, colleagues, neighbours, family members, whomever you
know who owns a hot tub what they like and, in particular, don't like
about their tub. Ask them how their dealer treated them. Was it with
respect? Did the salesperson ask questions in an effort to better
understand what they wanted in a tub (and actually listened to their
answers), or did they simply try to push a particular model? Did they
bad mouth a competing product or local dealer (always a good time to
make a bee line for the door). Are they happy with the after sales
service and warranty support?

Be careful not to rush into a purchase or fall victim to high-pressure
sales tactics; take your time and do your homework. Try to sort
through all the conflicting claims (trust me, there will be plenty).
And don't put a whole lot of weight on the "we have more horsepower",
"more jets", "more what have you" pitches. After all, you only want
to relax in your hot tub, not have the skin literally ripped off your
body. :-)

It's absolutely critical that you get inside as many tubs as you can
and see how each one feels. Move from seat to seat and pay particular
attention to the amount of foot room -- this is one area where a lot
of tubs fall down badly. Can you comfortably stretch out without
playing footsies with the person across from you? Get a sense of
where the water level will be, for all family members.... we're not
all built the same and you don't want to resort to snorkel kits, nor
do you want the upper two-thirds of your body exposed to air.

Some of the tubs that claim to accommodate six to eight people, simply
don't (what do they think we are, midgets on diets?). Take the number
of gallons/litres and divide by the number of seats to get a true
sense of the amount of room they offer per person. And by all means,
do a "wet test"; a good dealer will be happy to arrange a time that is
convenient for you to come in to their store and try out their
products. These dealers know 90 per cent of their business is through
referral and word of mouth, so it's in their interest to ensure you're
absolutely happy with your choice.

To be helpful, here are a few things I would personally look for in a
tub (this list is by no means exhaustive, but it should be sufficient
to get you started):

- a good, no hassle, warranty. Pay special attention to the
limitations and exclusions or "weasel words" as I like to call them.
You don't want a heater, say, to fail and then have a finger pointed
at you and be blamed for not properly maintaining the water (sadly,
this sort of thing happens all too often).

- synthetic skirting. Real wood looks good initially, but over time
it will fade, crack and become stained by water and chemicals.
Synthetic skirting continues to look good year after year and requires
virtually no maintenance (and since your hot tub is likely to become
the focal point of your backyard or deck, good appearance is
important).

- a fully foamed tub with high-density, closed cell polyurethane
foam, for four good reasons: superior heat retention, structural
rigidity (so the spa shell doesn't weaken under the weight of the
water and the stresses of people getting in and out), quieter
operation and, perhaps most importantly, to cradle and support the
internal plumbing (without this support, the weight of the water in
these long lines can put considerable stress on the joints and this,
in turn, can increase the likelihood of leaks over time). Also,
closed cell foam doesn't absorb moisture as does open cell, so it
won't lose its efficiency and it won't support mould and mildew. It's
more expensive, but definitely well worth it. BTW, ever heard people
complain about how their spa covers become heavy over time or musty
smelling? Now you know.

- an ozone system to help keep the water fresh and clear. Avoid the
type that use UV lamps as they produce relatively little usable ozone.
In addition, these bulbs have to be replaced when they burn out
(roughly 15,000 hours or every year and half), which results in an
ongoing maintenance and expense. Corona discharge systems produce far
more ozone, use a fraction of the electricity and should last the life
of your spa. And contrary to what some might suggest, ozone systems
doesn't eliminate the need for a water sanitizer -- they're only there
to help support it.

- good filtration. Perhaps one of few times when "more" truly is
"better". In a hot tub, your body sloughs-off skin cells, body oils,
hand creams, lotions, soaps, shampoos, conditioners and other things
you simply don't want to talk about. You want to get all this "stuff"
out of the water as quickly as possible and that's the job of the
filter. Keep in mind that during certain times of the year when there
is a high amount of pollen in the air, smaller filters can clog up
pretty quickly. I've purposely avoided recommending specific brands,
but I should note that Hot Spring is the only hot tub that filters
every single drop of water before it comes out of any jet, 100 per
cent of the time ; all other hot tubs employ "by-pass" valves that
allow the water in your spa to "by-pass" the filter when the jets are
turned on (they simply can't force that volume of water through their
filters due to their smaller size). Needless to say, it's precisely
when everyone is *in* the tub and the jets are on that you want these
filters to do very their best. Water filtration may or may not be all
that important to you but, for me, I want my spa water to always look
good and I want it to be as clean as possible at all times. Not to
belabour this point, but the filters in most Hot Spring spas last
seven to ten years and can be cleaned in the dishwasher; standard
paper filters, by comparison, typically last two to three years and
are cleaned by soaking in a chemical solution for ten to twelve
hours.... a huge difference in terms of convenience and ongoing
expense.

This has been a long post and I apologize for that. I guess the one
thing I would like to emphasize is that you take your time, do your
due diligence and speak to as many people as you can before you make
your purchase. Believe me, the time you spend upfront is well worth
it.

Cheers,
Paul

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:53:13 -0400, Jud McCranie
wrote:

I'm not familiar enough with what the top brands are. I saw a
ThermaSpa advertisement last night and called for information, but I
don't know if they are a top brand.

There are only three people in our family, so we don't need one big
enough for seven. However, I want a lounge (most have them) and the
ozonator thing. Some of the lower priced ones seem to have too small
of a pump and heater. I read that you want 240V and at least 40 amps.
---
Replace you know what by j to email

"Mys Terry" wrote

Parts for spas are very easy to get for any brand, regardless of where you
live.
It's called "The Internet".

Whatever winds yer clock. I prefer when I need a part to just take the old
part to the shop, match it up, and get a new one. Yes, the Internet is
great, but it is not without its problems. I can have a part in an hour,
and on the Internet, I have to wait a few days. Once I needed a pump. I
called around. I found a used rebuilt one for 1/4 the cost of new. It's
still chugging. If one gets the wrong part on the Internet, the spa is down
for a week due to shipping logistics. That is unacceptable to me.

So, finding a brand of spa that has a local dealer, TO ME, is an important
consideration for support.

But you can't beat filter prices on the Internet compared to local shops.

STeve

Steve B wrote:
"Mys Terry" wrote

Parts for spas are very easy to get for any brand, regardless of where you
live.
It's called "The Internet".

We purchased a second home in the mountains, that had a spa
from Arctic Spas already installed. Arctic Spas is from
Edmonton, Alberta- about a thousand miles from here. Their
closest dealer is a day's drive away. The spas were
reportedly very upper end and seemed to be well built when I
pulled the redwood enclosure and inspected the pumps and
fittings, before buying the cabin. What I FAILED to check
was the local dealer. After buying the cabin, I learned
that the local dealer had dropped Arctic Spas from its
inventory. I was an orphaned owner, but still covered by
factory warranty. When the inevitable break-downs began to
occur, I contacted Arctic Spas directly.

We reached a gentleman's agreement that if I would do my own
repair labor, they would send me the parts by Federal
Express. Over the years, this worked well and I respected
their responsiveness.

Here are a few of my amateurish observations:
1) Arctic Spas are designed for cold, cold temperatures.
They apply the dense foam to the inside of the enclosure,
and not the tub itself. That way, the pumps, heaters,
electronics and piping is inside the thermal enclosure. It
also makes everything very accessible, which is good.
2) When something breaks on a spa, you will be laying on
your stomach, arms extended for a long period of time. In
freezing weather, this is a royal pain, and only becomes
slightly less so during the summer months.
3) Screws freeze or rust, parts corrode and electronics fail
on spas. If you have to do the work yourself, it's a
continuing pain in the rump.

A) Get a spa where you can see the components, and they are
not submerged and hidden in foam.
B) Be sure the dealer has a long association with the
manufacturer and plans to continue the relationship. Buy
from a good dealer or Sears, not a big-box retailer who has
no established service department.
C) Unless you love laying on your stomach in mud, snow or
ice, arms outstretched, trying to free a rusted bolt with no
room to move the wrench, find out about who does the service
work and if the service department is well established. If
you live in the boondocks, find out if you must pay extra
for a service or warranty call.
D) Only get a spa where you have easy access to all sides.
Despite where the pump and heater are, the leak or problem
will happen in the most inaccessible area.
E) Be sure to have room to lay (in the mud, snow or rain)
all the way around your spa. Don't put it tight against
anything.
F) Locate not only the drain, but also the sump drains for
the pumps. If possible, pipe them to the outside as well so
you can totally drain the spa in freezing weather, if desired.
G) Get the biggest spa you can afford. Get the deepest one,
so that the water comes up to your neck easily.
H) Get lots of jets, big pumps and even an air blower. Be
sure that the heater-only mode is one of the motors running
at low speed. The more bubbles and agitation, the better.
I) Skip the fountains, entertainment center, TV, or wet bar
on the spa. Instead, do them individually and free
standing. They break, can be proprietary to the spa, and
just run up the cost.
j) A cabana to enclose the spa is nice, but not necessary.
It's fun to sit and have snow or sleet coming down on your
head. If it gets bad, a towel over your head keeps all warm.
K) If you DO go for a cabana, get it big enough that you can
change inside, without having to run to the house.
L) Get the cover double bagged, if available. The cover
will eventually saturate with water from the hot spa, and
double bagging slows down the inevitable.
M) Get a "swing back" for the cover. That way, you can just
flip it open or closed without help.
N) Get a spa with plenty of room to set drinks on the rim
above the water.

I'm sure I'll thnk of more stuff later on.

Mark

Hi Mark,

You've raised a number of good points and offered some really terrific
advice.

No question, a cover lifter is an absolute must. The last thing you
want to do is to fight with the cover when getting in or out of your
spa. It's just about impossible for one person to open and close the
cover without twisting and contorting their body like the torsion bars
on a Volarie and, more often than not, you can almost guarantee part
of that cover is going to end up in the water. And without a cover
lifter, there's the question of where to put it. If you put it down
on the ground or deck, it's going to get scuffed and dirty and end up
bring dirt, grass, sand, etc. into the spa.

And, for several reasons, I would avoid recessing a spa into a deck.
For one, as you say, it makes servicing and draining the spa that much
more difficult. You also pretty much forego any possibility of using
a cover lifter. If the spa is set low in the deck getting in and out
becomes uncomfortable and potentially dangerous (you can't easily
brace yourself with your hands). And if there are young kids running
about, there's a potential tripping hazard. Also, what do you do if
you get a bigger BBQ or a larger patio set and now need to move that
spa an extra five or six inches? Or what if you decide to replace
your spa at some point because it no longer fits your needs? Do you
end up rebuilding your deck? Bad news, all around.

I looked closely at Artic Spas' design and I don't want to sound like
I'm knocking their product. The fundamental problem I have is that
the pumps and electronics are trapped inside a thermal envelope and
subject to very high operating temperatures. As you probably already
know, heat is not generally kind to electrical equipment and
electronics in particular. Also, during the summer months and more so
in hotter climates, extended pump use can end up overheating the
water. And as you might guess, I tend to believe a fully foamed tub
is the better way to go, for reasons previously mentioned. That said,
I'm pleased to hear they've been willing to work with you directly in
the absence of a local dealer; that's comforting to know.

Good luck and enjoy that spa!

Cheers,
Paul

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 15:00:51 -0700, Mark and Gloria Hagwood
wrote:

Steve B wrote:
"Mys Terry" wrote

Parts for spas are very easy to get for any brand, regardless of where you
live.
It's called "The Internet".

We purchased a second home in the mountains, that had a spa
from Arctic Spas already installed. Arctic Spas is from
Edmonton, Alberta- about a thousand miles from here. Their
closest dealer is a day's drive away. The spas were
reportedly very upper end and seemed to be well built when I
pulled the redwood enclosure and inspected the pumps and
fittings, before buying the cabin. What I FAILED to check
was the local dealer. After buying the cabin, I learned
that the local dealer had dropped Arctic Spas from its
inventory. I was an orphaned owner, but still covered by
factory warranty. When the inevitable break-downs began to
occur, I contacted Arctic Spas directly.

We reached a gentleman's agreement that if I would do my own
repair labor, they would send me the parts by Federal
Express. Over the years, this worked well and I respected
their responsiveness.

Here are a few of my amateurish observations:
1) Arctic Spas are designed for cold, cold temperatures.
They apply the dense foam to the inside of the enclosure,
and not the tub itself. That way, the pumps, heaters,
electronics and piping is inside the thermal enclosure. It
also makes everything very accessible, which is good.
2) When something breaks on a spa, you will be laying on
your stomach, arms extended for a long period of time. In
freezing weather, this is a royal pain, and only becomes
slightly less so during the summer months.
3) Screws freeze or rust, parts corrode and electronics fail
on spas. If you have to do the work yourself, it's a
continuing pain in the rump.

A) Get a spa where you can see the components, and they are
not submerged and hidden in foam.
B) Be sure the dealer has a long association with the
manufacturer and plans to continue the relationship. Buy
from a good dealer or Sears, not a big-box retailer who has
no established service department.
C) Unless you love laying on your stomach in mud, snow or
ice, arms outstretched, trying to free a rusted bolt with no
room to move the wrench, find out about who does the service
work and if the service department is well established. If
you live in the boondocks, find out if you must pay extra
for a service or warranty call.
D) Only get a spa where you have easy access to all sides.
Despite where the pump and heater are, the leak or problem
will happen in the most inaccessible area.
E) Be sure to have room to lay (in the mud, snow or rain)
all the way around your spa. Don't put it tight against
anything.
F) Locate not only the drain, but also the sump drains for
the pumps. If possible, pipe them to the outside as well so
you can totally drain the spa in freezing weather, if desired.
G) Get the biggest spa you can afford. Get the deepest one,
so that the water comes up to your neck easily.
H) Get lots of jets, big pumps and even an air blower. Be
sure that the heater-only mode is one of the motors running
at low speed. The more bubbles and agitation, the better.
I) Skip the fountains, entertainment center, TV, or wet bar
on the spa. Instead, do them individually and free
standing. They break, can be proprietary to the spa, and
just run up the cost.
j) A cabana to enclose the spa is nice, but not necessary.
It's fun to sit and have snow or sleet coming down on your
head. If it gets bad, a towel over your head keeps all warm.
K) If you DO go for a cabana, get it big enough that you can
change inside, without having to run to the house.
L) Get the cover double bagged, if available. The cover
will eventually saturate with water from the hot spa, and
double bagging slows down the inevitable.
M) Get a "swing back" for the cover. That way, you can just
flip it open or closed without help.
N) Get a spa with plenty of room to set drinks on the rim
above the water.

I'm sure I'll thnk of more stuff later on.

Mark

Not to be argumentative, but there may be times when getting that spa
up and running again in a timely fashion is pretty critical.... such
as when it's -25C and you're potentially looking at one big and very
expensive ice cube :-) That's when you really hope your local dealer
has that one part you need and maybe the technician to install it
(especially true for those of us, like myself, who can't tell one end
of a screw driver from the other).

Also, if you live in Canada, ordering parts from a U.S. supplier is
just this side of a nightmare. If a part takes two days to ship
anywhere in the States, count on ten days to Canada. Then be prepared
to fork over big bucks for shipping, custom charges and brokerage fees
(UPS has got to be the worst in this respect). When all is said and
done, a local spa dealer may be able to provide you with the necessary
part for less.

Cheers,
Paul

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 22:48:50 GMT, Mys Terry
wrote:

[snip]

I always have that more expensive option if I'm in a hurry, but then, this is
not a heart/lung machine we're talking about. If it's down for a few days,
nobody will die.

[snip]

You are paying a price for your impatience. Local dealers are often out of stock
on the one part you happen to need. Then they put it in their weekly stock order
and you wait much longer than I do ordering my parts from the same warehouse
your dealer uses. It's pretty hard to order the wrong part when they have
photographs on the website. Once you know that your jets are made by "Turbo
Industries" and your electronics were made by "Sparky Technology", It's very
easy to pick out the right parts. The electronics "box" in spas are called a
"Spa Pack" and they are all distinct looking. Photographs of the circuit board
inside are like a fingerprint. When my heater element failed, the dealer would
have had a "heater assembly" as a replacement, for $250. Online, I could buy
just the element that was bad for $40 plus shipping. I bought two so I will have
a spare.

Jets are easy to match up exactly, and for that matter, you may decide to
substitute a different type. They all simply mount through a hole, after all.
You can mix brands if you desire.

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 18:23:23 GMT, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

Buy from a reputable spa dealer,

We've looked at five brick-and-mortar hot tub dealers (although one
was too far away), starting last November. Then I started looking
on-line.

It's absolutely critical that you get inside as many tubs as you can
and see how each one feels.

We've done that a few times, but no "wet tests".

- an ozone system to help keep the water fresh and clear.

I definitely want that.

This has been a long post and I apologize for that.

No, thank you very much for the suggestions, I'm going to print it
out!
---
Replace you know what by j to email

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 11:50:05 GMT, KLS wrote:

In my view, Beachcomber (which I have), Hot
Springs, Marquis, Jacuzzi, and a couple of others qualify as good,
reliable spas.

What about Sundance brand? (anyone) One of the ones I personally
liked (although I didn't see it running) was a Sundance.
---
Replace you know what by j to email

Hi Jud,

I'm delighted I could help, but it sounds like you've already got a
pretty good handle on this and I'm sure you'll be pleased with
whatever product you ultimately decide upon.

The good news is that there are plenty of great choices out there.
For the most part, it really does come down to how well the dealer is
going to take care of you. Investigate them thoroughly before you
hand over your money.

Cheers,
Paul

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 19:42:11 -0400, Jud McCranie
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 18:23:23 GMT, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

Buy from a reputable spa dealer,

We've looked at five brick-and-mortar hot tub dealers (although one
was too far away), starting last November. Then I started looking
on-line.

It's absolutely critical that you get inside as many tubs as you can
and see how each one feels.

We've done that a few times, but no "wet tests".

- an ozone system to help keep the water fresh and clear.

I definitely want that.

This has been a long post and I apologize for that.

No, thank you very much for the suggestions, I'm going to print it
out!
---
Replace you know what by j to email

"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:12:25 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Mys Terry" wrote

Parts for spas are very easy to get for any brand, regardless of where
you
live.
It's called "The Internet".

Whatever winds yer clock. I prefer when I need a part to just take the
old
part to the shop, match it up, and get a new one. Yes, the Internet is
great, but it is not without its problems. I can have a part in an hour,
and on the Internet, I have to wait a few days.

I always have that more expensive option if I'm in a hurry, but then, this
is
not a heart/lung machine we're talking about. If it's down for a few days,
nobody will die.

Once I needed a pump. I
called around. I found a used rebuilt one for 1/4 the cost of new. It's
still chugging. If one gets the wrong part on the Internet, the spa is
down
for a week due to shipping logistics. That is unacceptable to me.


You are paying a price for your impatience. Local dealers are often out of
stock
on the one part you happen to need. Then they put it in their weekly stock
order
and you wait much longer than I do ordering my parts from the same
warehouse
your dealer uses. It's pretty hard to order the wrong part when they have
photographs on the website. Once you know that your jets are made by
"Turbo
Industries" and your electronics were made by "Sparky Technology", It's
very
easy to pick out the right parts. The electronics "box" in spas are called
a
"Spa Pack" and they are all distinct looking. Photographs of the circuit
board
inside are like a fingerprint. When my heater element failed, the dealer
would
have had a "heater assembly" as a replacement, for $250. Online, I could
buy
just the element that was bad for $40 plus shipping. I bought two so I
will have
a spare.

Jets are easy to match up exactly, and for that matter, you may decide to
substitute a different type. They all simply mount through a hole, after
all.
You can mix brands if you desire.

So, finding a brand of spa that has a local dealer, TO ME, is an important
consideration for support.


I'm sure the dealer appreciates your enthusiasm and endless supply of
ready
cash.


But you can't beat filter prices on the Internet compared to local shops.


Yeah, I'm sure the local dealer is more competitive on service parts that
he has
you convinced are proprietary!



You seem to know everything there is to know. It would be senseless for me
to continue talking with you.

Steve

"Paul M. Eldridge" wrote in message
...
Not to be argumentative, but there may be times when getting that spa
up and running again in a timely fashion is pretty critical.... such
as when it's -25C and you're potentially looking at one big and very
expensive ice cube :-) That's when you really hope your local dealer
has that one part you need and maybe the technician to install it
(especially true for those of us, like myself, who can't tell one end
of a screw driver from the other).

I own a vacation rental. It rents for $300 per day. One of the drawing
cards is a spa. If the spa is not running, I have complaining guests. Not
a heart lung machine situation as one dramatic poster stated, but to me, a
potentially money losing situation.


Also, if you live in Canada, ordering parts from a U.S. supplier is
just this side of a nightmare. If a part takes two days to ship
anywhere in the States, count on ten days to Canada. Then be prepared
to fork over big bucks for shipping, custom charges and brokerage fees
(UPS has got to be the worst in this respect).

Not to mention they may just decide to confiscate the item pending the court
ruling.

When all is said and
done, a local spa dealer may be able to provide you with the necessary
part for less.

Cheers,
Paul

We have a cabin at 7,500 feet in elevation in Utah. It gets down to around
0 degrees F. It is a royal PITA if it is not working, and a potentially
expensive situation to let if sit for days waiting on a part that may or may
not come via the Internet. The Internet is many things, but foolproof it
ain't.

Steve

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 00:13:22 GMT, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

I'm delighted I could help, but it sounds like you've already got a
pretty good handle on this

Well, not exactly. I've been in a few hot tubs, but the only owner of
one I know has one of the round wood ones that is heated by burning
wood, which is completely different. We looked at a store last
November, but more seriously in the last month.
---
Replace you know what by j to email

Hi Steve,

I fully appreciate what you say. In the case of a vacation rental,
clients demand (and rightfully so) everything to be in proper working
order. If the tv wasn't working, I could live with it, but the hot
tub is a different matter altogether!

I know of one spa manufacturer (it happens to be my "preferred brand")
is working on something that could be of interest to people, like
yourself, who own rental properties or spas located at remote,
unattended, locations. The spa will monitor itself and in the event
the heater fails, a filter clogs or something falls outside its normal
operating parameters, it will dial its owner or page the local dealer
(cellular or land line). In addition, it can be linked to the home's
security system and remotely monitored by Chubb or whichever company
you use. A service tech can then be dispatched to correct the problem
before the condition becomes an even bigger problem (i.e., the big,
expensive, ice cube I spoke of earlier). Pretty impressive, indeed.

Cheers,
Paul


On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 19:12:00 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

.. .
I own a vacation rental. It rents for $300 per day. One of the drawing
cards is a spa. If the spa is not running, I have complaining guests. Not
a heart lung machine situation as one dramatic poster stated, but to me, a
potentially money losing situation.

[snip]

Not to mention they may just decide to confiscate the item pending the court
ruling.

[snip]

We have a cabin at 7,500 feet in elevation in Utah. It gets down to around
0 degrees F. It is a royal PITA if it is not working, and a potentially
expensive situation to let if sit for days waiting on a part that may or may
not come via the Internet. The Internet is many things, but foolproof it
ain't.

Steve

Hi Jud,

Sounds like you've got to make yourself some more friends! :-)

Oh boy, not sure what else to suggest, other than hit all the
manufacturer's web sites, do the prerequisite Google searches and
check out www.epinions.com (keyword: spas) to see what others have to
say about their ownership experience.

When visiting a dealership, you should be able to pick up on various
visual clues. For example, is the place spotlessly clean and are the
products well presented? Do they have a proper service department?
Are their service trucks clean and in good repair? Is the sales staff
professional, courteous and genuinely interested in helping me find
the right product? Can I do a "wet test"?

I mentioned warranties earlier on. Let me repeat, pay particular
attention to the fine print. I read through the warranty coverage for
one spa and it was a true eye opener. Basically, it said if there is
a problem with the spa that cannot be repaired onsite, the
manufacturer reserves the right to replace the spa with one of equal
or better value. OK, I'm thinking at this point.... "I can live with
that!". Then I read the next sentence, which tells me I'm responsible
for the full cost of shipping the defective product back to the
manufacturer, as well as that of its replacement. So now I'm asking
myself, just how much does it cost to ship an eight hundred pound spa
half way across the country and another one to take its place? A
thousand dollars? Two thousand dollars? Oh, and who's going to help
me get that spa properly packed, protected and ready for pickup?

This is precisely the reason why you must due your due diligence.

Cheers,
Paul

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 22:35:56 -0400, Jud McCranie
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 00:13:22 GMT, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

I'm delighted I could help, but it sounds like you've already got a
pretty good handle on this

Well, not exactly. I've been in a few hot tubs, but the only owner of
one I know has one of the round wood ones that is heated by burning
wood, which is completely different. We looked at a store last
November, but more seriously in the last month.
---
Replace you know what by j to email

"Paul M. Eldridge" wrote

I know of one spa manufacturer (it happens to be my "preferred brand")
is working on something that could be of interest to people, like
yourself, who own rental properties or spas located at remote,
unattended, locations. The spa will monitor itself and in the event
the heater fails, a filter clogs or something falls outside its normal
operating parameters, it will dial its owner or page the local dealer
(cellular or land line). In addition, it can be linked to the home's
security system and remotely monitored by Chubb or whichever company
you use.

We have this system/service on our cabin. So far, only one call when a
window blew in during a storm. We have a local resident who runs up and
checks on such things, as we are 175 miles from the cabin.

Yeah. Pretty nifty.

Steve

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 21:42:55 -0400, Jud McCranie
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:24:11 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

You're looking at a spa from Walmart? Save your money and buy a good one,
or a used one. The ones from Walmart don't last and don't have a lot of
jets.

We've looked at several places, including four stores (haven't
actually been to WalMart). I think theirs are by this company:
http://www.hydrospa.com/

I'm interested in what people think about things that are BY other
named companies.

Isn't the reason they don't sell their cheap models under their own
name is that they don't want to ruin their reputtation?

The only experience I have is with Sears, and I do believe in their
case, that's not the situation. Although I live a lone and don't use
my appliances much, my stove, refrigerator, dish washing and clothes
washer are all 27 years old and doing fine. And the clothese washer
does look, INSIDE, like a whirlpool, that I have had experience with
under that name.

But Sears is different from Walmart and many other places. OTher
than sears, I repeat the question in my second paragrapgh.

I'm still looking, but we do have limited
funds.
---
Replace you know what by j to email

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 11:35:44 -0400, Jud McCranie
wrote:


Where do you live? Thermo Spas is in Central Connecticut, and they often have
"scratch and dent " sales.

I would go for that, but I'm a long way from that, on coastal Georgia.

Just stay along the coast and go north. When your just past NYC, go
inland a bit and you'll see it.

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 13:17:29 GMT, Mys Terry
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 11:50:05 GMT, KLS wrote:

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:05:19 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Jud McCranie" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:24:11 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

You're looking at a spa from Walmart? Save your money and buy a good one,
or a used one. The ones from Walmart don't last and don't have a lot of
jets.

What about the ones at Home Depot? (We haven't been there yet
either.)

I don't like those either. I like the top manufacturers,

Why don't you give the OP some names to look for? What manufacturers
do you consider "top manufacturers"? I have heard negative things
about ThermoSpa not honoring warranties (they advertise heavily on
cable television). In my view, Beachcomber (which I have), Hot
Springs, Marquis, Jacuzzi, and a couple of others qualify as good,
reliable spas.

I have a Thermospas tub, (for about 8 years now) and the company has never been
anything other than helpful. Many of my friends have bought Thermospas after
enjoying mine, and they all have had nothing but praise for the company. The
reason Thermospas advertises more that most spa companies is because they sell
factory direct.

So does that mean they don't make the one at Walmart? Or if they
make it, maybe they don't support it? We're talking about Thermospa
as if what applies to it applies to the one at Walmart. ????

"mm" wrote


Isn't the reason they don't sell their cheap models under their own
name is that they don't want to ruin their reputtation?

If a company is making good money making good spas, why would they want to
put out crap and make less money on the same amount of units?

Steve

A spa is a combination of a lot of things. Hoses. Pumps. Gates. Valves.
Jets. Electronics. Switching devices. Heating devices. Temperature
control devices.

If you use high quality components, chances are the spa you build will work
well and be reliable. If you use low quality components, chances are that
the spa you build will break down more often, be less reliable, and have a
lot more service related issues.

That being said, when you go to the Borg stores, it is nearly impossible to
find out the name of the manufacturers of the component parts. And even if
they are stamped with the manufacturer, you need to speak Chinese to read
the address or company name.

Now, throw together a couple of years of manufacture using a long list of
variable parts from various suppliers ............ ALL OF THEM BEING LOWEST
BIDDER, and you have a real bag of snakes.

If you were to take a poll of people who have owned a spa for five years,
there would be a definite statistical correlation between those who bought
good spas from good manufacturers and who like them. Those who bought cheap
spas won't have as high a satisfaction percentage.

Buy all you can afford even if you have to buy used. They last a long time,
and a good used one will cost you less than a bad new one.

Steve

I've purchased lots of products through Sears over the years,
including just about all of my major appliances -- Kenmore mostly, but
other name brands such as Frigidaire and Bosch as well.

Most of the appliances sold under the Kenmore name are, in fact, made
by Whirlpool, or at least that has traditionally been the case; I
understand Sears provided the initial start-up capital for Whirlpool
and has, not surprisingly, always maintained a close working
relationship with the company. It's fair to say millions of people
have bought Kenmore appliances over the years and millions more will
continue to do so in the future, because they're highly satisfied with
the product and, just as importantly, the way Sears stands behind it.
There's a strong sense of trust, respect and a true brand loyalty that
is largely unmatched.

In terms of spas, it's not uncommon for a manufacturer to offer two,
three or more brands that target specific groups of consumers at
different price points.... much in the same way GM markets its
vehicles through various divisions. Certainly the features -- and,
yes, as can be expected, the quality -- will vary alongside the price.
After all, you don't buy a Neon and expect it to perform like a HEMI
300C. :-)

Cheers,
Paul

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 01:46:07 -0400, mm
wrote:

I'm interested in what people think about things that are BY other
named companies.

Isn't the reason they don't sell their cheap models under their own
name is that they don't want to ruin their reputtation?

The only experience I have is with Sears, and I do believe in their
case, that's not the situation. Although I live a lone and don't use
my appliances much, my stove, refrigerator, dish washing and clothes
washer are all 27 years old and doing fine. And the clothese washer
does look, INSIDE, like a whirlpool, that I have had experience with
under that name.

But Sears is different from Walmart and many other places. OTher
than sears, I repeat the question in my second paragrapgh.

Paul M. Eldridge wrote:

I've purchased lots of products through Sears over the years,
including just about all of my major appliances -- Kenmore mostly, but
other name brands such as Frigidaire and Bosch as well.

Most of the appliances sold under the Kenmore name are, in fact, made
by Whirlpool, or at least that has traditionally been the case; I
understand Sears provided the initial start-up capital for Whirlpool
and has, not surprisingly, always maintained a close working
relationship with the company. It's fair to say millions of people
have bought Kenmore appliances over the years and millions more will
continue to do so in the future, because they're highly satisfied with
the product and, just as importantly, the way Sears stands behind it.
There's a strong sense of trust, respect and a true brand loyalty that
is largely unmatched.

In terms of spas, it's not uncommon for a manufacturer to offer two,
three or more brands that target specific groups of consumers at
different price points.... much in the same way GM markets its
vehicles through various divisions. Certainly the features -- and,
yes, as can be expected, the quality -- will vary alongside the price.
After all, you don't buy a Neon and expect it to perform like a HEMI
300C. :-)

Cheers,
Paul

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 01:46:07 -0400, mm
wrote:


I'm interested in what people think about things that are BY other
named companies.

Isn't the reason they don't sell their cheap models under their own
name is that they don't want to ruin their reputtation?

The only experience I have is with Sears, and I do believe in their
case, that's not the situation. Although I live a lone and don't use
my appliances much, my stove, refrigerator, dish washing and clothes
washer are all 27 years old and doing fine. And the clothese washer
does look, INSIDE, like a whirlpool, that I have had experience with
under that name.

But Sears is different from Walmart and many other places. OTher
than sears, I repeat the question in my second paragrapgh.


Hi,
But there is always best bang for the buck. Paying more money does not
mean better product at some point. Lots of high end stuffs most often
just have more bells and whistles which is prone to give more troubles.
Specially electronic gadgets. How many times all this bells and whistles
are used routlinely?

Hi Tony,

You've certainly raised a valid point. There are a few expensive spas
out there that are, in terms of build quality, nothing more than a
costly bag of poop. Clearly, some consumers are being ripped off and
the manufacturer in question can get away with it because most of us
are conditioned to equate quality with price. Again, you have to do
your homework.

In terms of technology, I tend to believe the benefits largely work in
our favour. For example, I have a bad habit of over inflating my
tires in an effort to maximize my vehicle's fuel economy. Normally,
it isn't a problem, except when the weather turns suddenly warmer or
I'm doing a lot of high speed driving. Now, I'm almost certain I've
blown two tires on my LHS because of this. My 300M Special has a
tire pressure monitoring system that shows me my current tire pressure
and warms me if it ever becomes dangerously low or high. Sure enough,
on Friday it warned me it was too high on two of my tires, so I let a
little air out. Since I wouldn't have known otherwise (I confess I
was never very diligent about checking this myself), I know this
system has saved my sorry butt on more than one occasion.

Cheers,
Paul

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 07:15:52 GMT, Tony Hwang wrote:

Hi,
But there is always best bang for the buck. Paying more money does not
mean better product at some point. Lots of high end stuffs most often
just have more bells and whistles which is prone to give more troubles.
Specially electronic gadgets. How many times all this bells and whistles
are used routlinely?