On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 23:22:55 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


If you were to take a poll of people who have owned a spa for five years,
there would be a definite statistical correlation between those who bought
good spas from good manufacturers and who like them. Those who bought cheap
spas won't have as high a satisfaction percentage.

Buy all you can afford even if you have to buy used. They last a long time,
and a good used one will cost you less than a bad new one.

He may be saving his money on the purchase so he'll have enough money
for electricity to run it.

Remember the poster we had 3 or 4 weeks ago, who couldn't afford the
electricty?

Steve

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 23:15:09 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"mm" wrote


Isn't the reason they don't sell their cheap models under their own
name is that they don't want to ruin their reputtation?

If a company is making good money making good spas, why would they want to
put out crap and make less money on the same amount of units?

What Paul said, just below. That is, they would sell a greater number
of units. Almost as many of their good ones (Probably just as many,
because if they didn't sell cheaper ones, someone else would anyhow.)
plus the many cheaper ones they sold.


I also agree with Tony, that not all fancy features are worth having.
The guy who owned my house before me and bought the appliances bought
pretty much what he should have, somewhere in the middle, except for
the electric stove, which I think is at the cheap end. He paid extra
for the dryer that can go by how wet the clothes are, and I use that
all the time.

I usually buy a car when it is 7 years old and sell it when it is 14.
My current one is 11, and I was shopping for a new one about 4 years
ago, to buy in 2009, and sadly, none of the new accessories interested
me. I have a '95 car now that is loaded, and I've got little or
nothing left to look forward to in a new car. I don't want satellite
navigation. I suppose if the car has a satellite radio, I'll
subscribe, but I don't want music, only call in and talk radio (and
not Rush Limbaugh) and afaict, satellite doesn't have much.

Steve

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 19:56:45 -0400, Jud McCranie
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 11:50:05 GMT, KLS wrote:

In my view, Beachcomber (which I have), Hot
Springs, Marquis, Jacuzzi, and a couple of others qualify as good,
reliable spas.

What about Sundance brand? (anyone) One of the ones I personally
liked (although I didn't see it running) was a Sundance.

That might be another one of the high-end brands, but I can't
remember. Did you sit in it? My experience is that the better spas
have more comfortable seats; the seats are what sold me on my
Beachcomber, and everyone loves them.

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 23:22:55 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


If you were to take a poll of people who have owned a spa for five years,
there would be a definite statistical correlation between those who bought
good spas from good manufacturers and who like them. Those who bought
cheap
spas won't have as high a satisfaction percentage.

Buy all you can afford even if you have to buy used. They last a long
time,
and a good used one will cost you less than a bad new one.

He may be saving his money on the purchase so he'll have enough money
for electricity to run it.

Remember the poster we had 3 or 4 weeks ago, who couldn't afford the
electricty?

Steve


Electricity isn't the only thing. You have filters, chemicals, and parts.
Poorly designed spas use lots more electricity because they are not
insulated as well, and do not run as efficiently. So, a "savings" in the
beginning can be eaten up quickly.

Steve

"mm" wrote

I also agree with Tony, that not all fancy features are worth having.

My spa guy that I bought my spas from steered me away from spas that had
lots of extra things. A plain spa has far less to go wrong with it. Who
needs a stereo built in when you can buy a boom box?

Steve

"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 23:41:47 GMT, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

Not to be argumentative, but there may be times when getting that spa
up and running again in a timely fashion is pretty critical.... such
as when it's -25C and you're potentially looking at one big and very
expensive ice cube :-)

It's easy enough to drain the tub and use a shop vac to blow out the lines
if
your tub will be unheated for a few days in freezing temps.

In -25C temps, you are not going to get parts fast enough to prevent
freezing no
matter how you get them, and that technician may be booked up a week in
advance.



I'm confused. You first said that it was no big deal to have it down for a
week. Then you said it was no big deal to get parts off the Internet to
avoid being gouged by the local shop. I assumed you were talking about
doing your own labor, because most repairmen won't do the work using
customer parts because they won't give any warranty, and they want to make
all the markup like the evil shop owners do.

Which way is it?

Steve

OK, I trust none of us will actually have to put this to the test, but
there are a couple things you can do to hopefully avoid the "big
freeze".

Assuming your tub is fully foamed/well insulated, I would advise
against draining it unless you can properly winterize it with
non-toxic antifreeze (the type used by RVs). Your owner's manual may
have specific, step-by-step, instructions on how to do this, at least
mine does.... follow them to the "T".

Now, 400 or 500 gallons of water at 100F or so, is a considerable
amount of thermal mass and a good, well insulated, tub should be able
to retain much of this heat for several days, even at below freezing
temperatures. The one weak spot is the equipment compartment.

Assuming you haven't lost power, stick a trouble light inside the
equipment compartment to keep the pumps, heater and exposed plumbing
in this area warm. If it happens to be a CFL you are using, replace
it with a 40 or 60-watt incandescent bulb depending upon the size of
this area and outside temperature... now is not the time to be energy
conscious. :-)

Be **very** careful to properly secure the light and ensure its heat
won't damage any plastic piping, electrical wiring or electronic
components; the object here is to keep this area warm, not burn down
your spa down. An electric blanket or heating pad might also work,
if one is available; without question, this would be the safer option.

If you have one of those indoor/outdoor temperature gauges, stick the
external probe inside the equipment compartment and monitor the
temperature (frequently) and if it's getting too hot or too cold
inside there, bump up the bulb to the next higher wattage, or unplug
the trouble light periodically to allow the area to cool down, as the
case may be.

The next weak spot is the cover. The R-value of a good quality cover
is probably less than half that of the spa cabinet. Protect the cover
with as many old blankets or quilts as you have at your disposal.
Secure them with a tarp or plastic sheet. If there is snow available,
bank the sides of the spa to help reduce heat loss and minimize
exposure to wind. If there is no snow, construct a makeshift shelter
by leaning plywood against the spa; again, you want to protect the spa
from the prevailing winds as best you can.

No electricity? If you have a natural gas/propane stove or even a
BBQ, warm up as many bricks as you can find (if no bricks are
available, hot water bottles, pots of water, whatever you can use) and
place them inside the equipment compartment. Again, be careful not to
damage any components. If the temperature of the water inside the spa
is falling dangerously low, dump some of this water and refill with
water from your home's domestic hot water tank or even pots of water
heated up on the stove.

Be creative and do whatever it takes. If, for example, you have a
portable propane heater, build a plastic tent and surround it with
warm air (and if you don't happen to own such a heater, you might be
able to borrow or rent one).

And now might be a good time to check your homeowner's policy. Often
you can buy extra coverage for hot tubs and for a few extra bucks
you'll have the peace of mind of knowing that your investment is well
protected.

Hope this has been helpful.

Cheers,
Paul

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:05:05 GMT, Mys Terry
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 23:41:47 GMT, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

Not to be argumentative, but there may be times when getting that spa
up and running again in a timely fashion is pretty critical.... such
as when it's -25C and you're potentially looking at one big and very
expensive ice cube :-)

It's easy enough to drain the tub and use a shop vac to blow out the lines if
your tub will be unheated for a few days in freezing temps.

In -25C temps, you are not going to get parts fast enough to prevent freezing no
matter how you get them, and that technician may be booked up a week in advance.

"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:27:46 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Mys Terry" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 23:41:47 GMT, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

Not to be argumentative, but there may be times when getting that spa
up and running again in a timely fashion is pretty critical.... such
as when it's -25C and you're potentially looking at one big and very
expensive ice cube :-)

It's easy enough to drain the tub and use a shop vac to blow out the
lines
if
your tub will be unheated for a few days in freezing temps.

In -25C temps, you are not going to get parts fast enough to prevent
freezing no
matter how you get them, and that technician may be booked up a week in
advance.



I'm confused. You first said that it was no big deal to have it down for
a
week. Then you said it was no big deal to get parts off the Internet to
avoid being gouged by the local shop. I assumed you were talking about
doing your own labor, because most repairmen won't do the work using
customer parts because they won't give any warranty, and they want to make
all the markup like the evil shop owners do.

Which way is it?

Steve


I agree that you are a very confused person.

I could have told you that. Now how about answering my questions? (Please
see above)

Steve

Before passing judgement, you might ask for clarification or
additional information.

Page 46 of the HotSpring Owner's Manual states:

"For maximum protection against freeze damage to your spa, Watkins
Manufacturing Corporation recommends contacting your HotSpring dealer
to schedule an in-home Propylene glycol (anti-freeze) Winterizing
Service plan."

A copy of these instructions were provided to me by my dealer as part
of my start-up package.

For more information on how to properly winterize a spa, see:
http://www.angelfire.com/mi2/hottubs/winterizing.html

Cheers,
Paul


On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 00:24:46 GMT, Mys Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 17:03:34 GMT, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

OK, I trust none of us will actually have to put this to the test, but
there are a couple things you can do to hopefully avoid the "big
freeze".

Assuming your tub is fully foamed/well insulated, I would advise
against draining it unless you can properly winterize it with
non-toxic antifreeze (the type used by RVs). Your owner's manual may
have specific, step-by-step, instructions on how to do this, at least
mine does.... follow them to the "T".


Okay, you have now established that you have absolutely no idea what you are
talking about and have never had any experience with a hot tub.

"Mys Terry" wrote

I just did a little google search on "Hot Tub" and "UL Approved" and
found that virtually ALL free standing hot tubs are UL approved these
days. Even accessories such as covers are UL listed. It looks as
though it would be very difficult to find one that was NOT UL
approved.

I am certain that with your vast amount of experience, if there was ONE spa
that was not UL approved, you would have been the one to have seen it. ;-)

Steve

"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:08:22 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Mys Terry" wrote

I just did a little google search on "Hot Tub" and "UL Approved" and
found that virtually ALL free standing hot tubs are UL approved these
days. Even accessories such as covers are UL listed. It looks as
though it would be very difficult to find one that was NOT UL
approved.

I am certain that with your vast amount of experience, if there was ONE
spa
that was not UL approved, you would have been the one to have seen it.
;-)

Steve


I'm sorry that facts offend you.

Huh? That was a compliment.

Steve

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 22:40:57 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:49:48 GMT, Mys Terry
wrote:

I just did a little google search on "Hot Tub" and "UL Approved" and
found that virtually ALL free standing hot tubs are UL approved these
days. Even accessories such as covers are UL listed. It looks as
though it would be very difficult to find one that was NOT UL
approved.

[cut]
One hint, if there is a built in stereo, electronic displays or
switches (other than air powered) you can reach from the water, it
can't be legal.

???? This means all spas would be illegal since all of them have jet
speed controls within reach from the water. Surely you can't mean
what you just wrote.

"Mys Terry" wrote

estrogen induced tirade snipped

That time of the month again? What is that, the fourth time this month?

Steve

"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:42:12 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Mys Terry" wrote

estrogen induced tirade snipped

That time of the month again? What is that, the fourth time this month?

Steve


Those "fact thingys" really bug you, don't they! They make Gfretwell
break out in hives.

No, what bugs me is your level of bitchiness and know-it-all-ness.

It's pretty simple.

"Mys Terry" wrote


You're welcome.


Three strikes, and you're out.

Plonk

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:31:01 GMT, KLS wrote:

That might be another one of the high-end brands, but I can't
remember. Did you sit in it?

I think I did (dry).
---
Replace you know what by j to email

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 03:47:54 GMT, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

Oh boy, not sure what else to suggest, other than hit all the
manufacturer's web sites, do the prerequisite Google searches and

Yes, I've been doing that too.

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Replace you know what by j to email

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:15:43 -0400, Jud McCranie
wrote:

We're looking at getting a hot tub.

Thank you everyone! Many more replies than I expected, with a lot of
information. We're still looking and shopping.
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Replace you know what by j to email

On Friday, April 14, 2006 3:15:43 PM UTC-7, Jud McCranie wrote:
We're looking at getting a hot tub. Some of the ones I've look at
have temperature ranges 80-100 degrees F. Is 100F hot enough (I
thought they went to 102 or 104).
---
Replace you know what by j to email

Hi,
I was just wondering if you actually found a simple way to increase the heat, I would like 108, (then when it cools down it isn't so cold). Tried reading through the forum but it seemed to just get argumentative so I stopped reading.

Thank you.

On Saturday, February 1, 2014 6:26:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, April 14, 2006 3:15:43 PM UTC-7, Jud McCranie wrote:

We're looking at getting a hot tub. Some of the ones I've look at

have temperature ranges 80-100 degrees F. Is 100F hot enough (I

thought they went to 102 or 104).

---

Replace you know what by j to email



Hi,

I was just wondering if you actually found a simple way to increase the heat, I would like 108, (then when it cools down it isn't so cold). Tried reading through the forum but it seemed to just get argumentative so I stopped reading.



Thank you.

This is where big govt and fear of lawsuits gets you.
SPAs in the USA are limited to 104F, even if you want
to have yours at 108F and you have sense enough to
use it properly. Seems there are some folks dumb
enough to get drunk, stay in it for hours, etc. Another
problem is those temp accuracies can probably drift,
so while it thinks it's 104, it may be somewhat less
too. If you measure it and it's not 104F, then
you can call a spa store, etc and ask them what it
takes to fix that. If it's an adjustment, then it
should be a min service call. If it's not adjustable,
then it's probably going to be expensive.

Whether you can change the max temp would seem to
depend on the design of the actual spa. I would
doubt the manufacturer would make it easy to do
so. And it's probably going to be hard to find
a schematic, etc to figure out if it's possible
to do on your own.

Since you say that yours cools down, it sounds
like you have a 120V model that does not heat
once the pump is turned on high? Years ago I
bought a 120V spa and when I was buying it, the
shysters at the store never explained the problems
with 120V, only the advantages. The problems
are that it takes 4X as long
to heat, which means if you only use it once
in a while and keep it turned way down, it takes
many hours to get to temp. And the second is
that it no longer heats once the pump goes on
high, ie when you're using it. If you have a
240V unit, then there is no reason it can't heat
while being used and easily maintain or increase
the temperature.

If that's the main problem you have, you may be
able to have it converted to 240V. Right after
I bought it, that's what I
did. The store swapped out the power pack/heater
unit for a couple hundred bucks. Of course the
other problem is that even if that's possible,
you have to run 240V to it, which could be easy
or hard, depending on where it's located. And it
could be cheap or expensive, depending on if you
can do the work yourself. But the
difference is substantial, you get 4X the heating
capability and can run the heater while the pump
is on full too.