My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

Before I Google this thing within an inch of it's life, I'd like to
ask for the Wisdom Of Those Who Have Gone Before, on the Wreck.

When I asked my wife for the specs, I was told:

"It has to be five ounces."

Hmm.

When I asked my son for the specs, he said:

"What's a spec?"

Sigh...



I was a Boy Scout, but never a Cub Scout. I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:54:09 -0400, Tom Watson
wrote:


I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.

There is no Cognoscenti, only a cabal.

Barry

Several years back, I found a fantastic site on cub cars. Can't tell you
where it is now, though.

It talked about lubrication (matters lots) , aerodynamics (doesn't matter!)
, weight and where to place it (as much at the back as possible and maximize
to the legal limit - get it weighted at the post office to be sure...), how
to make the wheel pins smooth and minimize friction, etc. Even said to build
it so one wheel wouldn't touch the track, but I think that's illegal in the
Cub car world.

Anyway, good luck.

Michel.



"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

Before I Google this thing within an inch of it's life, I'd like to
ask for the Wisdom Of Those Who Have Gone Before, on the Wreck.

When I asked my wife for the specs, I was told:

"It has to be five ounces."

Hmm.

When I asked my son for the specs, he said:

"What's a spec?"

Sigh...



I was a Boy Scout, but never a Cub Scout. I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

I'm sure a Dags on "pinewood derby" will pull up quite a bit of info. I was
one of the ones (many moons ago) that sort of made my own (well dad cut the
body on the bandsaw) - but I did the rest.

Sadly, I think I was probably the only one - and my position in the finals
were evidently testimony, probably, not to the "skills" of the other young
builders, but, rather, their fathers as I didn't do research on lubricants
and other such things.

Tom Watson writes:
My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

You want to google "pinewood derby"

When I asked my wife for the specs, I was told:

"It has to be five ounces."

General rules:

Maximum weight 5.0 oz (FYI: heavier cars do better)
Wheel spacing can't change
under-car clearance minimum (i.e. don't add things underneath)
Can't extend beyond wheels sideways
some tracks have a height max too.
Must be at least partly built by the scout.
length maximum too

Each pack chooses which of the official rules they'll follow, but
there is a common set of rules most follow, which should be easy to
find now that you know what to google for.


Oh - tip for the little ones. Disk sander. In our house, that's the
tool of choice (and usually the scroll saw for roughing) for pinewood
derby car carving. Once you get your kit, make a few extra wooden
blanks for them to experiment with (save the official blank for the
official car).

Adding weights: forstner bit into the bottom, use a flat head screw to
attach washers. Easy to adjust this way. Or you could do what my
daughter did, and build a truck - and fill the bed with big hex nuts :-)

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:59:02 GMT, Ba r r y
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:54:09 -0400, Tom Watson
wrote:


I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.

There is no Cognoscenti, only a cabal.

Barry


there is no cabal.

As a metrologist (calibration and standards) at my place of employement I can
always tell when the pinewood derby time rolls around. I have a steady stream
of Dad's weighing cars, wheels, lead shot etc on some of my really accurate
high resolution scales. 4.999999 oz. anyone?
Mike in Arkansas who may exeragerate slightly the resolution of his scales.

On 21 Oct 2004 00:44:02 GMT, (JMWEBER987) wrote:

As a metrologist (calibration and standards) at my place of employement I can
always tell when the pinewood derby time rolls around. I have a steady stream
of Dad's weighing cars, wheels, lead shot etc on some of my really accurate
high resolution scales. 4.999999 oz. anyone?
Mike in Arkansas who may exeragerate slightly the resolution of his scales.


Would that matter if the scout pack has a $20 postal scale at the
event? G

I can hear the sound of drilling now...

Barry

On 21 Oct 2004 00:44:02 GMT, (JMWEBER987) wrote:

As a metrologist (calibration and standards) at my place of employement I can
always tell when the pinewood derby time rolls around. I have a steady stream
of Dad's weighing cars, wheels, lead shot etc on some of my really accurate
high resolution scales. 4.999999 oz. anyone?
Mike in Arkansas who may exeragerate slightly the resolution of his scales.


Hmm.

We have ASTM downa street (Conshohocken) - wonder what kinda scales
dem boyz got?


(duz it really get dis nutz?)



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Tom:
It's called the Pinewood Derby and kits are available. Check with the
scoutmaster.

Bob


"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

Before I Google this thing within an inch of it's life, I'd like to
ask for the Wisdom Of Those Who Have Gone Before, on the Wreck.

When I asked my wife for the specs, I was told:

"It has to be five ounces."

Hmm.

When I asked my son for the specs, he said:

"What's a spec?"

Sigh...



I was a Boy Scout, but never a Cub Scout. I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:01:35 GMT, "Bob Schmall"
wrote:

Tom:
It's called the Pinewood Derby and kits are available. Check with the
scoutmaster.



I've heard of the Kirwood Derby.

I would think that a PineyWood Derby would be a particularly heavy and
ugly hat worn by folks who was likeminded with Jummy.

Could be wrong, I guess.


Y'all sure we's talkin' about the same stuff?



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

(JMWEBER987) writes:
high resolution scales. 4.999999 oz. anyone?

Actually, our official race scale is only precise to 1/10 oz, so 5.049
oz would be the max for our race. Depending on the accuracy of the
scale, of course.

Tom Watson writes:
I've heard of the Kirwood Derby.

Our pack also has a Polar Derby. Each den builds a sled, one cub
rides inside, one on the back skids, and the rest of the den pulls.
Through the woods at my house, no less :-)

My son and I made a match box car (20 years ago ;-)) that came in third in
his pack. As I recall, the scout pack provided the car shaped, wood blank.
We rough cut the blank then sanded the corners and finally painted the car a
bright red (red cars always go faster!). The weight of the car, I am told,
is the biggest impact on speed because the car track is gravity feed. I
mortised a notch in the bottom of the car and we glued in pennies, as
necessary, to reach the 5 oz maximum. The glued pennies did not extend
beyond the mortise so the bottom of the car could not catch on anything on
the track. The local Post Office was the official weight in station for the
race. We used powdered graphite (like you use on door locks) to lubricate
the wheel axels. The Pinewood Derby car race was a lot of fun and a good
father-son project. Good luck!


"Bob Schmall" wrote in message
...
Tom:
It's called the Pinewood Derby and kits are available. Check with the
scoutmaster.

Bob


"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

Before I Google this thing within an inch of it's life, I'd like to
ask for the Wisdom Of Those Who Have Gone Before, on the Wreck.

When I asked my wife for the specs, I was told:

"It has to be five ounces."

Hmm.

When I asked my son for the specs, he said:

"What's a spec?"

Sigh...



I was a Boy Scout, but never a Cub Scout. I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

I was always in charge of building the car, but dad did the weighting. We
used melted wheel wieghts where ever we could put them. But I remember dad's
rule of alway bring a drill and bit to the derby just in case it needs to be
lighter. (Note, those where the days before battery powered drills and EPA
rules against melting lead and a whole bunch of other things we did,
hahahaha.)

Bernie

"Ba r r y" wrote in message
news
On 21 Oct 2004 00:44:02 GMT, (JMWEBER987) wrote:

As a metrologist (calibration and standards) at my place of employement I
can
always tell when the pinewood derby time rolls around. I have a steady
stream
of Dad's weighing cars, wheels, lead shot etc on some of my really
accurate
high resolution scales. 4.999999 oz. anyone?
Mike in Arkansas who may exeragerate slightly the resolution of his
scales.


Would that matter if the scout pack has a $20 postal scale at the
event? G

I can hear the sound of drilling now...

Barry

I had two top three finishes out of three years. (The third year I made a
three wheeled trike. Took the prize for design, but wouldn't run straiht on
the track. I figured that going it, but I digress.) Looking back, I think a
lot of my sucess was due to wheel alignment. We had seperate wood axels with
nail spindals. I think the designs are different now, but dad always had me
align the axels with calipers. I didn't really appresiate why it mattered
then, but I suspect now that wheel alignment cut down on alot of friction as
the car rolled down the track.

Bernie

"MJT" wrote in message
...
Several years back, I found a fantastic site on cub cars. Can't tell you
where it is now, though.

It talked about lubrication (matters lots) , aerodynamics (doesn't
matter!)
, weight and where to place it (as much at the back as possible and
maximize
to the legal limit - get it weighted at the post office to be sure...),
how
to make the wheel pins smooth and minimize friction, etc. Even said to
build
it so one wheel wouldn't touch the track, but I think that's illegal in
the
Cub car world.

Anyway, good luck.

Michel.



"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

Before I Google this thing within an inch of it's life, I'd like to
ask for the Wisdom Of Those Who Have Gone Before, on the Wreck.

When I asked my wife for the specs, I was told:

"It has to be five ounces."

Hmm.

When I asked my son for the specs, he said:

"What's a spec?"

Sigh...



I was a Boy Scout, but never a Cub Scout. I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

all of the above...my two cents...

#1 make a car that jr will be proud of hanging on his wall, win or lose (and
make sure he helps)...we have more than a few pieces of art (and all my
fingers are still attached) and actually have more than a few trophies as
well...a few years after the fact, former is much more important to the boys
than the latter. Shape and finish are a pleasure to goof with.
#2 watch the design...track has some nasty angles on the decline that will
hurt bad if the car wants to nose-dive. A thin strip of wood is applied to
the track to keep you honest on the width between wheels.
#3 is play by the rules and learn the rules each step of the way...our last
car (a beauty in its own right) cruised through local and regional play,
only to be disqualified at the top due to some technicality about the wheels







"Jim Giblin" wrote in message
news:kjEdd.3689$EL5.1418@trndny09...
My son and I made a match box car (20 years ago ;-)) that came in third in
his pack. As I recall, the scout pack provided the car shaped, wood
blank.
We rough cut the blank then sanded the corners and finally painted the car
a
bright red (red cars always go faster!). The weight of the car, I am
told,
is the biggest impact on speed because the car track is gravity feed. I
mortised a notch in the bottom of the car and we glued in pennies, as
necessary, to reach the 5 oz maximum. The glued pennies did not extend
beyond the mortise so the bottom of the car could not catch on anything on
the track. The local Post Office was the official weight in station for
the
race. We used powdered graphite (like you use on door locks) to lubricate
the wheel axels. The Pinewood Derby car race was a lot of fun and a good
father-son project. Good luck!


"Bob Schmall" wrote in message
...
Tom:
It's called the Pinewood Derby and kits are available. Check with the
scoutmaster.

Bob


"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

Before I Google this thing within an inch of it's life, I'd like to
ask for the Wisdom Of Those Who Have Gone Before, on the Wreck.

When I asked my wife for the specs, I was told:

"It has to be five ounces."

Hmm.

When I asked my son for the specs, he said:

"What's a spec?"

Sigh...



I was a Boy Scout, but never a Cub Scout. I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

I've done 8 of them.
1) Buy a kit.
2) Let the kid design it (and build as much of it as is reasonable) It
doesn't matter how silly it looks if the kid is happy with it.
3) Don't worry about winning; you won't unless you cheat. Even then, it is
not a sure thing because luck is a big factor. (and a bunch of other guys
are also cheating)

In article , Tom Watson
wrote:

I agree with others that the secret is in the wheels. They need to be
accurately aligned. Test it on the floor to see that it runs straight.
Moreover, the car needs to be accurately placed on the track so that it
starts straight. Don't let anybody else handle the car that might
disturb the wheels. The nails that they used to supply for axels were
very poor. It could be improved by chucking it in the drill press and
smoothing with a file folled by fine emery.

I made one demonstration car with special wheels. I bored out the
standard wheel and glued a glass bead in the center. Then I made an
axle of a hat pin. The polished steel on glass was very frictionless.

Dick

My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

Before I Google this thing within an inch of it's life, I'd like to
ask for the Wisdom Of Those Who Have Gone Before, on the Wreck.

When I asked my wife for the specs, I was told:

"It has to be five ounces."

Hmm.

When I asked my son for the specs, he said:

"What's a spec?"

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:54:09 -0400, Tom Watson
wrote:

My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.


Signs you are getting carried away with your ( or is it- your son's?)
pinewood derby car-


Your Cub Scout now knows how to measure in thousandths of an inch

You showed up the night before, when they were setting up the track-

You tried to calibrate your dietary scale….

If you bought a book about how to win at Pinewood Derby, you might be
getting carried away.

If you know that 5 ounces is 141.7 grams…

If you used a dial caliper or micrometer…

If you used a pocket calculator at any time-

If you used a heat lamp to cure anything

If you made a box just to carry the car in

If you bought more than one type of lubricant.

If you used a jewelers loupe- you might be getting carried away.

If you needed a metal turning lathe, because your wood lathe had too
much runout when dressing the wheels-

If you used cad software in the design stages….

You had to buy anything mail order, because neither the corner
hardware store nor the Scout Office had what you needed-

You sketched out a quick Gantt Chart-

If your Tiger Cub now knows how to wet sand….

If your budget went over 50 bucks….

If you had to run out to buy more rouge (polishing compound) ….

If you used a router at some point in the construction of your car,
you might have spent a bit too much time on it.

If you used a wind tunnel, you might be getting carried away with your
pine wood derby car.

~~~~~~~~~

seriously, we tried a "Dad's Class" to take some of the heat off the
boys.


-Dan V.

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...

I was a Boy Scout, but never a Cub Scout. I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.


Ahh - the Cabal makes a feeble attempt to hide in the Witness Protection
Program...


My rules:
1) It has to be *his* car. Too many Dads get caught up in the competition
and take over the construction. The kid ends up watching.
2) Keep it fun. If he wants to do something that'll guarantee last place, do
it - it's his car. Your job is Foreman, he's the Boss.

Lil' personal insight - I don't have a ton of fond memories of childhood.
But of the few I do, one is me and my Dad doing the Pinewood Derby.

This just might be one of those moments he files away in "novRAM".

wrote:

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:59:02 GMT, Ba r r y
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:54:09 -0400, Tom Watson
wrote:


I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.

There is no Cognoscenti, only a cabal.

Barry


there is no cabal.

Fnord.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Tom Watson wrote:
(duz it really get dis nutz?)


A'yup!

And don't forget the GPS.

UA100, Fifth Place but our wind tunnel was ho-made...

Tom,

I like Toller's and Patrick's replies, it's about father/son quality time -
not winning.

Let him build it, but ask him why he wants to do something. Research with
him, show him how to use the tools, explain about competitions, winning and
what the true aim is. Ask him what *he* expects to get out of it.

When you go to the meet, focus on him enjoying the day and try to ignore the
individual (there's always one) that tries to win at all costs (it'll be a
parent). Leave before the inevitable argument about the interpretation of
the "rules".

If you get it right, win or lose, your son will want to spend more time with
dad making 'cool' stuff.

Oh yeah, as Keeter said, mount a GPS, but make sure it's at the back.

I wish you both luck.


--

Greg


"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

Before I Google this thing within an inch of it's life, I'd like to
ask for the Wisdom Of Those Who Have Gone Before, on the Wreck.

When I asked my wife for the specs, I was told:

"It has to be five ounces."

Hmm.

When I asked my son for the specs, he said:

"What's a spec?"

Sigh...



I was a Boy Scout, but never a Cub Scout. I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Don't need to Google for the rules. They're provided with the official kit.

Poor wheel alignment is what kills most otherwise promising entrants. Four
on the floor at all times.

Weights in the "pusher" position seem best. Since the cars usually end up
wedge-shaped, it's easy enough to bore a hole with a Forstner, sized
properly for a copper plumbing end cap. Bore the cap for #6 sheetmetal
screw for final attachment, use up the sinkers as required. It doesn't need
to be at the max to run fine.

I always insisted on making the weight holder for my two boys, and then
marked a no-cut area 1/4 around the axle insert points before turning it
over to them for style. Paper templates seemed better than freestyle.

I also insisted on doing the wheel alignment. Best advice on wheels is to
let the boys sand all flashing and irregularity off the rolling portion with
block-mounted paper, while the wheels are chucked in a drill press.
Graphite on race day (after appearance judging!) finishes the job.

The kids had some real uglies at first, but by the last two years (we raced
WEBELOS), they improved. All of 'em ran well, because I got the information
above from another father. Kids still have their trophies in their box of
"I am great" stuff.

Get your troop to have non-scout competitions, too. I enjoyed racing a car,
even when my own daughter beat me two years in a row in the finals.

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

Before I Google this thing within an inch of it's life, I'd like to
ask for the Wisdom Of Those Who Have Gone Before, on the Wreck.

When I asked my wife for the specs, I was told:

"It has to be five ounces."

Hmm.

When I asked my son for the specs, he said:

"What's a spec?"

Sigh...



I was a Boy Scout, but never a Cub Scout. I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

My best advice is look at the basic rules, follow them, and have FUN! Way
too many dads become obsessed with winning pinwood derbies. The event is
supposed to be a father-SON build. When I was Cubmaster, you could
immediately spot the cars that dad had done. Sometimes the kids weren't
allowed to touch them (really sad if you think about it). We made sure
that there were prizes for lots of things other than winning. We had on
the spot awards for things like "Most Creative use of Glitter", "Most
Colorful", "Coolest Design Idea"... None of these awards went to dad
built cars. After all, the event is for the kids, RIGHT!?!?

Grant



Tom Watson wrote:

My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

Before I Google this thing within an inch of it's life, I'd like to
ask for the Wisdom Of Those Who Have Gone Before, on the Wreck.

When I asked my wife for the specs, I was told:

"It has to be five ounces."

Hmm.

When I asked my son for the specs, he said:

"What's a spec?"

Sigh...

I was a Boy Scout, but never a Cub Scout. I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.

Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Get your troop to have non-scout competitions, too. I enjoyed racing a
car,
even when my own daughter beat me two years in a row in the finals.

We have talked about that, in hopes it would help prevent the Dads from
simply building the cub's cars. Does it help?

Tom,
I ran several Pinewood Derby races during my tenure as Cubmaster. Here's a
link to the last set of rules that we raced with.
http://www.cubpacks.org/ks/cs/899/PW_Rules_2004.pdf. You need to contact
the pack's leadership and see if they have their own "official" rules. There
are some links to good websites at the bottom of the rules that have some
designs for your son to look at. Above all, have fun at it, and let your son
do as much as possible. We also had an Outlaw race that was open to all
comers, mainly to try to give the dads an outlet for their own ambitions.
Here's a good set of general things to remember:
http://www.cubpacks.org/ks/cs/899/10...od%20Derby.htm.
And on the lighter side: http://www.cubpacks.org/ks/cs/899/signspwd.htm.

If you have any questions just holler, and I'll see if I can help you out.

Murray DeVore

Many good replies for the most part. I've been doing "pinewood deby" cars
for more than 30 years. I have countless 1st, 2nd and 3rd place finishes.
Very few other place finishes! (Lot's of boy in the family!) First and
formost is wheels! Must be lubricated. use graphite and they ust be aligned.
Run the car on 3 wheels 25% less friction. As you can tell it's all about
reducing friction. Get the car to max. weight (5 ounces) Don't rely on the
postal scales. Get the car weighed on the "pack" scale. All scales are
different only the "pack" scale counts. Get it as close to weight as
possible you can always adjust it on race day after weighing in on the
"pack" scale. Lightly sand the wheels. they will have burrs on them. they
must be removed. If allowed by the pack, round the wheels as much as
possible. Thus less wheel on the track and less friction. Put the wheels and
axels in a baggie filled with the graphite and "shake and bake" them and let
sit in the graphite as long as possible before race day. Relube the wheels
as close to the time of the first race as allowed by the pack. Let the scout
shape the car and paint/decorate it as he pleases. The shape and decorations
won't effect the running of the car. Good luck. But remember the most
inportant thing about the pinewood derby is to have fun with the scout
building the car and have fun race day enjoying the race. Do not emphisise
the winning and losing. It's all for fun. But that dosen't mean you can't do
the above mentioned to increase the fun a bit by winning. :-)


Dan
"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

Before I Google this thing within an inch of it's life, I'd like to
ask for the Wisdom Of Those Who Have Gone Before, on the Wreck.

When I asked my wife for the specs, I was told:

"It has to be five ounces."

Hmm.

When I asked my son for the specs, he said:

"What's a spec?"

Sigh...



I was a Boy Scout, but never a Cub Scout. I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

"Dan Valleskey" valleskey at comcast dot net wrote in message
...


snip of some painfully funny Foxworthy material

seriously, we tried a "Dad's Class" to take some of the heat off the
boys.

*That's* an interesting idea...

(I knew this would start a string when I saw it last evening)

Tom:
WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF ADULTS COMPETING WITH ADULTS, USING WOODEN TOY CARS,
WHILE KIDS WATCH. We do, at least, let the kids put the car on the track.

I was involved in this with my son and nephews both as a parent and scout
leader. I was astounded at the level of competitiveness among adults - not
necessarily healty competition.

The scouts have a specification book that includes rules, weights, etc. You
can buy Pinewood Derby kits that include the block of wood, wheel, axle
nails, and the rules. The block of wood is optional but you have to use
their wheels and nails.

I know of parents buying their own electronic scale (most grocery stores are
glad to let you use one), applying computer modeling, applying custom laquer
jobs, etc. We even had one car that supposedly was tested in the Wichita
State University wind tunnel (Dad was an aerodynamicist that worked with
WSU - Probably true. It lost).

The secrets abound:
- Put your weight low for a slingshot effect when it hits the bottom of the
grade.
- Put your weight high for a slingshot effect when it hits the bottom of the
grade.
- Spin you wheels to polish the axle and wheel race. (GENTLY, Belt
sander? - NO!)
- Leave one wheel off of the track. (Half of the cars actually built by
boys are this way anyway.)
- Very small frontal area. With one exception, this seems to be true. The
very thin, wedge shaped cars seemed to do a little better. However one year
we had a pretty artistic rendition of a model T roadster that won.
- Polish the finish. They look nice but this still goes back to the WSU car
that lost. My son did win best design one year with a wedge and a rubbed
paint job.

THE TRUE SECRETS OF SUCCESS IN THE PINEWOOD DERBY A
- Work with your son
- Let him have THE active role in design and build
- Bury your ego
- Have fun with your child and make him feel good!

As I recall this was not Pinewood Derby. It acutally happened years ago
during the Soap Box Derby nationals. I belive the car had a fiberglass nose
fairing with an imbedded magnet. The drop of the metal start gate did give
it a push. Somehow they figured it out and disqualified the car (which had
obviously done well to get to nationals).

Another example of poor adult judgement and example. One year I saw a Soap
Box Derby Car with machined aluminum parts, fine finished wooden parts,
rubbed laquer paint and jeweled sponsor's lettering. The best part about it
was a much simpler father/son garage-built car blew it away and won the
event.

OH, I forgot.

Win or lose, when it is over help your boy build a simple display for his
car so he can show it off in his room. My son is 26 and I think he still
knows where a couple of his cars are.


"RonB" wrote in message
newsrPdd.6370$EZ.5857@okepread07...
(I knew this would start a string when I saw it last evening)

Tom:
WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF ADULTS COMPETING WITH ADULTS, USING WOODEN TOY
CARS, WHILE KIDS WATCH. We do, at least, let the kids put the car on the
track.

I was involved in this with my son and nephews both as a parent and scout
leader. I was astounded at the level of competitiveness among adults -
not necessarily healty competition.

The scouts have a specification book that includes rules, weights, etc.
You can buy Pinewood Derby kits that include the block of wood, wheel,
axle nails, and the rules. The block of wood is optional but you have to
use their wheels and nails.

I know of parents buying their own electronic scale (most grocery stores
are glad to let you use one), applying computer modeling, applying custom
laquer jobs, etc. We even had one car that supposedly was tested in the
Wichita State University wind tunnel (Dad was an aerodynamicist that
worked with WSU - Probably true. It lost).

The secrets abound:
- Put your weight low for a slingshot effect when it hits the bottom of
the grade.
- Put your weight high for a slingshot effect when it hits the bottom of
the grade.
- Spin you wheels to polish the axle and wheel race. (GENTLY, Belt
sander? - NO!)
- Leave one wheel off of the track. (Half of the cars actually built by
boys are this way anyway.)
- Very small frontal area. With one exception, this seems to be true.
The very thin, wedge shaped cars seemed to do a little better. However
one year we had a pretty artistic rendition of a model T roadster that
won.
- Polish the finish. They look nice but this still goes back to the WSU
car that lost. My son did win best design one year with a wedge and a
rubbed paint job.

THE TRUE SECRETS OF SUCCESS IN THE PINEWOOD DERBY A
- Work with your son
- Let him have THE active role in design and build
- Bury your ego
- Have fun with your child and make him feel good!

"patrick conroy" writes:
seriously, we tried a "Dad's Class" to take some of the heat off the
boys.

*That's* an interesting idea...

We have an "unlimited" class for people who don't like rules :-)

Not necessarily, but it can lead to some real fun on race night.

Competititive types will not be deterred by any sanction.

"toller" wrote in message
...

Get your troop to have non-scout competitions, too. I enjoyed racing a
car,
even when my own daughter beat me two years in a row in the finals.

We have talked about that, in hopes it would help prevent the Dads from
simply building the cub's cars. Does it help?

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:59:02 GMT, Ba r r y wrote:
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:54:09 -0400, Tom Watson
wrote:


I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.

There is no Cognoscenti, only a cabal.

There is no Cabal. And besides, I know you're in it because you're
never at the meetings.

Dead simple, but a few notes on the Pinewood Derby...

(a) No betting in front of the kids.
(b) No cussing in front of the moms or the kids.
(c) You may not threaten another father in the parking lot.
(d) Watch out for women who cheat.
(e) Stay very quite during the finals and NO gloating.
(f) Try to let the boy have some of the fun.
(g) Place all side bets earlier in the day.
(h) Don't show your ass.

Tom Watson wrote:

My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

Before I Google this thing within an inch of it's life, I'd like to
ask for the Wisdom Of Those Who Have Gone Before, on the Wreck.

When I asked my wife for the specs, I was told:

"It has to be five ounces."

Hmm.

When I asked my son for the specs, he said:

"What's a spec?"

Sigh...



I was a Boy Scout, but never a Cub Scout. I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.

On 21 Oct 2004 15:36:05 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:


There is no Cabal. And besides, I know you're in it because you're
never at the meetings.

So I've washed the Board's cars. Picked up their laundry. Bought three
kegs (which I dropped off since you wouldn't let me stay).

The hazing wasn't as bad as I thought, tho' it was very cold and the
cop didn't think it was very funny. And I don't think the squirrel
had a good time at all.




How much longer before you guys vote on new members???

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:04:01 GMT, patrick conroy
wrote:

On 21 Oct 2004 15:36:05 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:


There is no Cabal. And besides, I know you're in it because you're
never at the meetings.

So I've washed the Board's cars. Picked up their laundry. Bought three
kegs (which I dropped off since you wouldn't let me stay).

The hazing wasn't as bad as I thought, tho' it was very cold and the
cop didn't think it was very funny. And I don't think the squirrel
had a good time at all.




How much longer before you guys vote on new members???


any day now.

and don't forget to drop off the 300 board feet of curly bubinga.

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:54:09 -0400, Tom Watson
wrote:

My son, a new Cub Scout, has told me that he wants to participate in a
Cub Scout wooden model car race.

Before I Google this thing within an inch of it's life, I'd like to
ask for the Wisdom Of Those Who Have Gone Before, on the Wreck.

When I asked my wife for the specs, I was told:

"It has to be five ounces."

Hmm.

When I asked my son for the specs, he said:

"What's a spec?"

Sigh...



I was a Boy Scout, but never a Cub Scout. I would like to hear from
the Cognoscenti.


Hmmm... I was a Cub Scout, but not a Boy Scout. It sounds like you're
talking about the illustrious pinewood derby. Unless they've changed
things a bit, your son's troop should provide him with a hunk of pine,
which you whittle down into any shape car you like, drill a hole in
the back to accept a CO2 canister, add some wheels and a couple of
eyebolts in the bottom to hook it to a piece of fishing line so it
doesn't go flying off the track when they pop the canister. Lots of
fun, not too much work. They race them in a little tournament when
everyone is done.

I believe the finish is up to the scout, but I'm guessing that they
don't like people to substitute other types of wood for the pine
(though I could certainly be wrong- it's been an awful long time since
I was a cub scout!)

Anyhow, have fun!
Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1