On 12/27/2016 2:39 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Jack wrote in news
On 12/25/2016 1:26 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

Yep, I know. But, at a young age I came to realize Windows is
actually really really good.

Windows was never really good, let alone really, really good. Well,
there was one version of windows that was really good, and that was
OS/2. The only version of Win that actually worked.

Well, we'll disagree there. Windows 9x had a good UI, but did lack in
stability and security wasn't a big concern until Windows XP SP2. NT 4.0
had the stability (mostly) and UI of Windows 98, which is what I was
running for quite some time.

I had a Mac running OS 8 at the same time (I couldn't be bothered to
spend the cash for OS X, which Btw is a GUI on top of Unix), and Windows
NT was much better. Maybe it was what I was used to, maybe it was that I
treated the Mac as a toy and didn't do any real work... Or maybe Windows
NT was much better.

We're seeing a shift, more people than ever are talking about Linux.
I won't say "2017 will be the year of Linux on the desktop" because
it won't. Linux will take over like Firefox... Slowly. All of a
sudden you realize Firefox has to be taken seriously. (That's a
whole 'nother can of worms... because now you realize Firefox *can't*
be taken seriously anymore. The fork Pale Moon is really good.)

The desk top is dying a fast death. Kids (under 40) today don't use
them, they use their cell phones. Actually they use todays Portable
Computer (PC), which is incorrectly called a cell phone. Almost no
one uses the cell phone part of their PC much, they use text for that.
Otherwise it's social media.

As for Linux, (which of course is really just a hacked copy of Unix)
that has already killed Windows dead as hell. 99% of PC's (aka cell
phones) are powered by UNIX based OS's. Android and Mac OS are based
on UNIX, not windows. The Desktop is dead, killed by so called cell
phones. The entire internet runs on Unix, almost all cell phones
(PC's) run on Unix based OS's.


The desktop is not dying, but it is severly shrinking. When you need to
sit down and get some work done, there's little better interface out
there than the ultra-precise mouse and confident keyboard.

What will happen is every family will have a computer for typing reports
and the like, but will also have multiple portable devices OR perhaps the
portable device with multiple interfaces will finally catch on. When you
need to type and mouse, your portable device can be plugged in to another
device that provides that hardware and maybe a bigger screen and your
phone can become your computer. This isn't a new idea, I've got a
LapDock for my Pi. (It might have caught on if the LapDock didn't have
to cost so much.)

There's more servers running Windows Server and IIS than you'd think. I
wouldn't say the entire Internet runs on Unix, but a significant portion
does.

Puckdropper

That number is dropping. Most of the places I have worked for had a
linux back end with an IIS middleware. IIS is a POS in my book, it's
constantly requiring resets. But the powers that beeeeeee. Cost is
driving everything. I now run my databases on windows.. They are so much
more unstable than the Unix O/S's I used to run on. But cost has been
pushing that direction, also companies are finding less and less
expertise in the Linux / Unix area and are moving to Windows. I can't
tell you how many issues I have related to windows, it's astounding. but
people up top don't care about stability, only cost.. and it cost them
less to get a few MS idiots than a few good Linux gurus. So that's part
of the cost. I am in the medical imaging field now, and we can't afford
downtime, Imagine not being able to view a CT scan or MRI during an
operation or after a stroke...

Oooohhhh lets reboot the POS.

--
Jeff

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 11:55:27 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 12/25/2016 10:22 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:

When I got my first computer the first thing I did was install OS/2.

My first computer ran DOS 2.1, because 2.0 never worked.

I ran several computers on OS/2 including a LAN server until the
1990. and
when the company I worked for was purchased by a company who ran the
Windows server.

When I purchased a new personal computer and was forced into the of
world Windows 98, it was like going back into the dark ages.

I ran OS/2 at home for many years, until IBM saw it was about to kill
windows, then they, (and I begrudgingly) let it go.

It was never "about to kill Windows". If it was
achieving any significant market penetration IBM
would have kept producing it. Why would IBM have
any qualms about killing Windows?

My brother still
runs it. There is a company somewhere that keeps it going.

The product is called "ecomstation". I ran OS/2
for a long time but eventually the difficulty of
obtaining applications rendered it of no real
utility.

OS/2 WARP
not only made WIN 95 and Win 98 look like they were from the dark ages,
it would make WIN 10 look like it is from the dark ages.

That's a matter of opinion. Yours is much in
the minority.

You could run DOS, WIN95 and OS/2 apps all at the same time, seamlessly.

No, you could not. The built in support for
Windows ended at Windows 3.1. There was no
support at all for native Windows 95
applications, EVER.

When WIN would crash, like it has always done since it's first
version, everything else kept running, and all you need to do was close
the WIN session and open another.

If Windows 10 is crashing on you you need to
repair your computer. The ones that I've seen
that do that either are on broken hardware or
were upgraded from an older version--the upgrade
doesn't clean house thoroughly enough
apparently.

Windows (Microsoft) is the scourge of computing. It is a perfect
example of why the government invented anti-trust laws, and
unfortunately, what can happen if they are ignored/bought off. Another
feather in the Clinton reign of corruption.

sound of world's tiniest violin


OS/2 was also subject to a gorilla marketing campaign by microsoft on
usenet, to bad google ****ed up the old archives.

Mark

In article 5862c386$0$34631$c3e8da3$dbd57e7
@news.astraweb.com, Puckdropper says...

Jack wrote in news
On 12/25/2016 1:26 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

Yep, I know. But, at a young age I came to realize Windows is
actually really really good.

Windows was never really good, let alone really, really good. Well,
there was one version of windows that was really good, and that was
OS/2. The only version of Win that actually worked.

Well, we'll disagree there. Windows 9x had a good UI, but did lack in
stability and security wasn't a big concern until Windows XP SP2. NT 4.0
had the stability (mostly) and UI of Windows 98, which is what I was
running for quite some time.

I had a Mac running OS 8 at the same time (I couldn't be bothered to
spend the cash for OS X, which Btw is a GUI on top of Unix), and Windows
NT was much better. Maybe it was what I was used to, maybe it was that I
treated the Mac as a toy and didn't do any real work... Or maybe Windows
NT was much better.

We're seeing a shift, more people than ever are talking about Linux.
I won't say "2017 will be the year of Linux on the desktop" because
it won't. Linux will take over like Firefox... Slowly. All of a
sudden you realize Firefox has to be taken seriously. (That's a
whole 'nother can of worms... because now you realize Firefox *can't*
be taken seriously anymore. The fork Pale Moon is really good.)

The desk top is dying a fast death. Kids (under 40) today don't use
them, they use their cell phones. Actually they use todays Portable
Computer (PC), which is incorrectly called a cell phone. Almost no
one uses the cell phone part of their PC much, they use text for that.
Otherwise it's social media.

As for Linux, (which of course is really just a hacked copy of Unix)
that has already killed Windows dead as hell. 99% of PC's (aka cell
phones) are powered by UNIX based OS's. Android and Mac OS are based
on UNIX, not windows. The Desktop is dead, killed by so called cell
phones. The entire internet runs on Unix, almost all cell phones
(PC's) run on Unix based OS's.


The desktop is not dying, but it is severly shrinking. When you need to
sit down and get some work done, there's little better interface out
there than the ultra-precise mouse and confident keyboard.

And several hundred square inches of screen real
estate.

What will happen is every family will have a computer for typing reports
and the like, but will also have multiple portable devices OR perhaps the
portable device with multiple interfaces will finally catch on. When you
need to type and mouse, your portable device can be plugged in to another
device that provides that hardware and maybe a bigger screen and your
phone can become your computer. This isn't a new idea, I've got a
LapDock for my Pi. (It might have caught on if the LapDock didn't have
to cost so much.)

There's more servers running Windows Server and IIS than you'd think. I
wouldn't say the entire Internet runs on Unix, but a significant portion
does.

Puckdropper

woodchucker wrote in
:


Not all under 40.
My son is 24 and is a linux guru. He uses a laptop, as well as his
phone, also uses windows for work. So he's multi lingual. He's C++ ,
C , java, and other language capable.

I find the cell phone less capable than a laptop. I have not been
impressed with the cell phone. Actually disappointed. I get
frustrated by sites that won't let me view w/o an add blocker. Then
they jump aroud like crazy while constantly re-displaying different
size ads. that cause me to lose my place. I find the interface clunky
and not as smooth as I would hope it would be. So my thumb goes down
on the android interface.


Those sites don't deserve your attention. Go somewhere else, and if
you're doing something with a company trying to get your money complain.
It's the only way we'll get rid of them. We've got a lot of growing up
to do with regards to interactive ads. Be vocal, we've got to touch a
bunch of young kids (some as old as 75!) how not to make their ads
behave!

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 10:12:51 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 12/25/2016 10:22 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:

When I got my first computer the first thing I did was install OS/2.

My first computer ran DOS 2.1, because 2.0 never worked.

I ran several computers on OS/2 including a LAN server until the
1990. and
when the company I worked for was purchased by a company who ran the
Windows server.

When I purchased a new personal computer and was forced into the of
world Windows 98, it was like going back into the dark ages.

I ran OS/2 at home for many years, until IBM saw it was about to kill
windows, then they, (and I begrudgingly) let it go

For the last number of years OS/2 was an ibm product, not a microsoft
product and it was never ANYWHERE near killing Windows.
It was basically a marketting problem with IBM being unwilling to take
on Microsoft on Microsoft's terms.


. My brother still
runs it. There is a company somewhere that keeps it going. OS/2 WARP
not only made WIN 95 and Win 98 look like they were from the dark ages,
it would make WIN 10 look like it is from the dark ages.

You could run DOS, WIN95 and OS/2 apps all at the same time, seamlessly.
When WIN would crash, like it has always done since it's first
version, everything else kept running, and all you need to do was close
the WIN session and open another.

You can do the same thing with virtualization under Windows, and 64
bit windows allows you to "crash" an application without crashing the
machine,. It's called "pre-emptive multitasking - and although IBM
came out with it first in OS/2, Windows has had it for several years
now.

Windows (Microsoft) is the scourge of computing. It is a perfect
example of why the government invented anti-trust laws, and
unfortunately, what can happen if they are ignored/bought off. Another
feather in the Clinton reign of corruption.

On 27 Dec 2016 19:39:50 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

BIG snip

There's more servers running Windows Server and IIS than you'd think. I
wouldn't say the entire Internet runs on Unix, but a significant portion
does.

Puckdropper
The main reason the internet runs on "unix" is "Linux" - an
extremely low cost distribution model that undercuts any other server
operating system on the market world wide.

Same reason Android rules the portable computing device market.

It's the "walmartization" of the world. Lower price always wins.

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 15:56:34 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

On 12/27/2016 2:39 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Jack wrote in news
On 12/25/2016 1:26 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

Yep, I know. But, at a young age I came to realize Windows is
actually really really good.

Windows was never really good, let alone really, really good. Well,
there was one version of windows that was really good, and that was
OS/2. The only version of Win that actually worked.

Well, we'll disagree there. Windows 9x had a good UI, but did lack in
stability and security wasn't a big concern until Windows XP SP2. NT 4.0
had the stability (mostly) and UI of Windows 98, which is what I was
running for quite some time.

I had a Mac running OS 8 at the same time (I couldn't be bothered to
spend the cash for OS X, which Btw is a GUI on top of Unix), and Windows
NT was much better. Maybe it was what I was used to, maybe it was that I
treated the Mac as a toy and didn't do any real work... Or maybe Windows
NT was much better.

We're seeing a shift, more people than ever are talking about Linux.
I won't say "2017 will be the year of Linux on the desktop" because
it won't. Linux will take over like Firefox... Slowly. All of a
sudden you realize Firefox has to be taken seriously. (That's a
whole 'nother can of worms... because now you realize Firefox *can't*
be taken seriously anymore. The fork Pale Moon is really good.)

The desk top is dying a fast death. Kids (under 40) today don't use
them, they use their cell phones. Actually they use todays Portable
Computer (PC), which is incorrectly called a cell phone. Almost no
one uses the cell phone part of their PC much, they use text for that.
Otherwise it's social media.

As for Linux, (which of course is really just a hacked copy of Unix)
that has already killed Windows dead as hell. 99% of PC's (aka cell
phones) are powered by UNIX based OS's. Android and Mac OS are based
on UNIX, not windows. The Desktop is dead, killed by so called cell
phones. The entire internet runs on Unix, almost all cell phones
(PC's) run on Unix based OS's.


The desktop is not dying, but it is severly shrinking. When you need to
sit down and get some work done, there's little better interface out
there than the ultra-precise mouse and confident keyboard.

What will happen is every family will have a computer for typing reports
and the like, but will also have multiple portable devices OR perhaps the
portable device with multiple interfaces will finally catch on. When you
need to type and mouse, your portable device can be plugged in to another
device that provides that hardware and maybe a bigger screen and your
phone can become your computer. This isn't a new idea, I've got a
LapDock for my Pi. (It might have caught on if the LapDock didn't have
to cost so much.)

There's more servers running Windows Server and IIS than you'd think. I
wouldn't say the entire Internet runs on Unix, but a significant portion
does.

Puckdropper

That number is dropping. Most of the places I have worked for had a
linux back end with an IIS middleware. IIS is a POS in my book, it's
constantly requiring resets. But the powers that beeeeeee. Cost is
driving everything. I now run my databases on windows.. They are so much
more unstable than the Unix O/S's I used to run on. But cost has been
pushing that direction, also companies are finding less and less
expertise in the Linux / Unix area and are moving to Windows. I can't
tell you how many issues I have related to windows, it's astounding. but
people up top don't care about stability, only cost.. and it cost them
less to get a few MS idiots than a few good Linux gurus. So that's part
of the cost. I am in the medical imaging field now, and we can't afford
downtime, Imagine not being able to view a CT scan or MRI during an
operation or after a stroke...

Oooohhhh lets reboot the POS.
It's the "linux" low cost model that is killing Unix. It's user
supported - meaniung there really is no support to speak of, but it is
driving "legitimate unix" out of business.

You NEED to be a Unix guru to maintain a unix server, while much of
the Windows Server architecture and interface is common to desktop
windows. THAT is what is driving Windows Server adoption in the
indusatry.
We are still running on a Linux webserver - just upgraded to a
current release - and the switchover to the new server was rife with
problems and took almost a week, because, in large part, there was
inadequate support. I had nothing to do with the switchover, and have
nothing to do with the server maintenance (thankfully).

The internal servers at the insurance office are Windows servers, but
the virtualization server is not windows based - it is a VMWARE unit
which is based, at least loosely, on a Linux kernal.
A MISERABLE thing to manage compared to the Windows Hypervisor. When
they switched to VMWare I handed the network administration over to
the contractor who recommended it -" hook line and stinker"

The virtual servers have been ROCK SOLID, but the backup and other
management has been "less than stellar".

My Windows 10 desktops have also been rock solid - better than Windows
7, and very comparable to my previous WinXP SP2 machines (which would
run for months and months on end without a reboot or a crash -
basically only requiring a reboot after certain updates).
At the time we were running the old NT servers, non virtualized, mu
wife worked in Health Services at a local University where they were
running the MAC Medical system on an Apple (Unix based) server - and
it crashed on a regular basis - MANY times oftener than the old NT
system - which was not nearly as "solid" as WinServer 2012 and 2013.

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 16:51:20 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article 5862c386$0$34631$c3e8da3$dbd57e7
, Puckdropper says...

Jack wrote in news
On 12/25/2016 1:26 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

Yep, I know. But, at a young age I came to realize Windows is
actually really really good.

Windows was never really good, let alone really, really good. Well,
there was one version of windows that was really good, and that was
OS/2. The only version of Win that actually worked.

Well, we'll disagree there. Windows 9x had a good UI, but did lack in
stability and security wasn't a big concern until Windows XP SP2. NT 4.0
had the stability (mostly) and UI of Windows 98, which is what I was
running for quite some time.

I had a Mac running OS 8 at the same time (I couldn't be bothered to
spend the cash for OS X, which Btw is a GUI on top of Unix), and Windows
NT was much better. Maybe it was what I was used to, maybe it was that I
treated the Mac as a toy and didn't do any real work... Or maybe Windows
NT was much better.

We're seeing a shift, more people than ever are talking about Linux.
I won't say "2017 will be the year of Linux on the desktop" because
it won't. Linux will take over like Firefox... Slowly. All of a
sudden you realize Firefox has to be taken seriously. (That's a
whole 'nother can of worms... because now you realize Firefox *can't*
be taken seriously anymore. The fork Pale Moon is really good.)

The desk top is dying a fast death. Kids (under 40) today don't use
them, they use their cell phones. Actually they use todays Portable
Computer (PC), which is incorrectly called a cell phone. Almost no
one uses the cell phone part of their PC much, they use text for that.
Otherwise it's social media.

As for Linux, (which of course is really just a hacked copy of Unix)
that has already killed Windows dead as hell. 99% of PC's (aka cell
phones) are powered by UNIX based OS's. Android and Mac OS are based
on UNIX, not windows. The Desktop is dead, killed by so called cell
phones. The entire internet runs on Unix, almost all cell phones
(PC's) run on Unix based OS's.


The desktop is not dying, but it is severly shrinking. When you need to
sit down and get some work done, there's little better interface out
there than the ultra-precise mouse and confident keyboard.

And several hundred square inches of screen real
estate.

What will happen is every family will have a computer for typing reports
and the like, but will also have multiple portable devices OR perhaps the
portable device with multiple interfaces will finally catch on. When you
need to type and mouse, your portable device can be plugged in to another
device that provides that hardware and maybe a bigger screen and your
phone can become your computer. This isn't a new idea, I've got a
LapDock for my Pi. (It might have caught on if the LapDock didn't have
to cost so much.)

There's more servers running Windows Server and IIS than you'd think. I
wouldn't say the entire Internet runs on Unix, but a significant portion
does.

Puckdropper

Like to see anyone get any productivity running a high end CAD
application on an I-Phone!!! Or even a decent database .

wrote:
On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 16:51:20 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article 5862c386$0$34631$c3e8da3$dbd57e7
@news.astraweb.com, Puckdropper says...
Jack wrote in news
On 12/25/2016 1:26 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

Yep, I know. But, at a young age I came to realize Windows is
actually really really good.
Windows was never really good, let alone really, really good. Well,
there was one version of windows that was really good, and that was
OS/2. The only version of Win that actually worked.
Well, we'll disagree there. Windows 9x had a good UI, but did lack in
stability and security wasn't a big concern until Windows XP SP2. NT 4.0
had the stability (mostly) and UI of Windows 98, which is what I was
running for quite some time.

I had a Mac running OS 8 at the same time (I couldn't be bothered to
spend the cash for OS X, which Btw is a GUI on top of Unix), and Windows
NT was much better. Maybe it was what I was used to, maybe it was that I
treated the Mac as a toy and didn't do any real work... Or maybe Windows
NT was much better.

We're seeing a shift, more people than ever are talking about Linux.
I won't say "2017 will be the year of Linux on the desktop" because
it won't. Linux will take over like Firefox... Slowly. All of a
sudden you realize Firefox has to be taken seriously. (That's a
whole 'nother can of worms... because now you realize Firefox *can't*
be taken seriously anymore. The fork Pale Moon is really good.)
The desk top is dying a fast death. Kids (under 40) today don't use
them, they use their cell phones. Actually they use todays Portable
Computer (PC), which is incorrectly called a cell phone. Almost no
one uses the cell phone part of their PC much, they use text for that.
Otherwise it's social media.

As for Linux, (which of course is really just a hacked copy of Unix)
that has already killed Windows dead as hell. 99% of PC's (aka cell
phones) are powered by UNIX based OS's. Android and Mac OS are based
on UNIX, not windows. The Desktop is dead, killed by so called cell
phones. The entire internet runs on Unix, almost all cell phones
(PC's) run on Unix based OS's.

The desktop is not dying, but it is severly shrinking. When you need to
sit down and get some work done, there's little better interface out
there than the ultra-precise mouse and confident keyboard.
And several hundred square inches of screen real
estate.

What will happen is every family will have a computer for typing reports
and the like, but will also have multiple portable devices OR perhaps the
portable device with multiple interfaces will finally catch on. When you
need to type and mouse, your portable device can be plugged in to another
device that provides that hardware and maybe a bigger screen and your
phone can become your computer. This isn't a new idea, I've got a
LapDock for my Pi. (It might have caught on if the LapDock didn't have
to cost so much.)

There's more servers running Windows Server and IIS than you'd think. I
wouldn't say the entire Internet runs on Unix, but a significant portion
does.

Puckdropper
Like to see anyone get any productivity running a high end CAD
application on an I-Phone!!! Or even a decent database .

You don't think you cell phone is capable of invoking database
transactions? Think of your phone as containing the "on" switch.

Bill wrote in
news
wrote:
Like to see anyone get any productivity running a high end CAD
application on an I-Phone!!! Or even a decent database .

You don't think you cell phone is capable of invoking database
transactions? Think of your phone as containing the "on" switch.


Oh that's not it... He's thinking about doing complicated database work,
not just pushing buttons and making stuff go into databases. Things like
SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users, administrators where ID='';DROP TABLE
administrators; -- 10T' order by name;

It was hard enough to type that gobblygook in on a real keyboard, let alone
an emulated one on a tablet.

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

Puckdropper wrote:
Bill wrote in
news
wrote:
Like to see anyone get any productivity running a high end CAD
application on an I-Phone!!! Or even a decent database .
You don't think you cell phone is capable of invoking database
transactions? Think of your phone as containing the "on" switch.

Oh that's not it... He's thinking about doing complicated database work,
not just pushing buttons and making stuff go into databases. Things like
SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users, administrators where ID='';DROP TABLE
administrators; -- 10T' order by name;

It was hard enough to type that gobblygook in on a real keyboard, let alone
an emulated one on a tablet.

My point is that it's just a character string. It could be returned to
a phone as a jpg file or as an Excel-like spreadsheet for instance.
This topic is called "distributed computing".




Puckdropper

In article m4j66cpfsotilvh5hc8qjdciqefepr01k6@
4ax.com, says...

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 10:12:51 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 12/25/2016 10:22 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:

When I got my first computer the first thing I did was install OS/2.

My first computer ran DOS 2.1, because 2.0 never worked.

I ran several computers on OS/2 including a LAN server until the
1990. and
when the company I worked for was purchased by a company who ran the
Windows server.

When I purchased a new personal computer and was forced into the of
world Windows 98, it was like going back into the dark ages.

I ran OS/2 at home for many years, until IBM saw it was about to kill
windows, then they, (and I begrudgingly) let it go

For the last number of years OS/2 was an ibm product, not a microsoft
product and it was never ANYWHERE near killing Windows.
It was basically a marketting problem with IBM being unwilling to take
on Microsoft on Microsoft's terms.


. My brother still
runs it. There is a company somewhere that keeps it going. OS/2 WARP
not only made WIN 95 and Win 98 look like they were from the dark ages,
it would make WIN 10 look like it is from the dark ages.

You could run DOS, WIN95 and OS/2 apps all at the same time, seamlessly.
When WIN would crash, like it has always done since it's first
version, everything else kept running, and all you need to do was close
the WIN session and open another.

You can do the same thing with virtualization under Windows, and 64
bit windows allows you to "crash" an application without crashing the
machine,. It's called "pre-emptive multitasking - and although IBM
came out with it first in OS/2, Windows has had it for several years
now.

Actually IBM came out with it first in OS/360
long before there was such a thing as a
microprocessor. People forget that computing
has a history that predates Intel and that
operating systems have a history that predates
Unix.

In article ,
says...

Puckdropper wrote:
Bill wrote in
news
wrote:
Like to see anyone get any productivity running a high end CAD
application on an I-Phone!!! Or even a decent database .
You don't think you cell phone is capable of invoking database
transactions? Think of your phone as containing the "on" switch.

Oh that's not it... He's thinking about doing complicated database work,
not just pushing buttons and making stuff go into databases. Things like
SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users, administrators where ID='';DROP TABLE
administrators; -- 10T' order by name;

It was hard enough to type that gobblygook in on a real keyboard, let alone
an emulated one on a tablet.

My point is that it's just a character string. It could be returned to
a phone as a jpg file or as an Excel-like spreadsheet for instance.
This topic is called "distributed computing".

OK, Bill, type "SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users,
administrators where ID='';DROP TABLE
administrators; -- 10T' order by name;" into
your cell phone a hundred times and see if you
still prefer it to a keyboard.

On 12/28/2016 2:27 AM, Bill wrote:
Puckdropper wrote:
Bill wrote in
news
wrote:
Like to see anyone get any productivity running a high end CAD
application on an I-Phone!!! Or even a decent database .
You don't think you cell phone is capable of invoking database
transactions? Think of your phone as containing the "on" switch.

Oh that's not it... He's thinking about doing complicated database work,
not just pushing buttons and making stuff go into databases. Things like
SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users, administrators where ID='';DROP TABLE
administrators; -- 10T' order by name;

It was hard enough to type that gobblygook in on a real keyboard, let
alone
an emulated one on a tablet.

My point is that it's just a character string. It could be returned to
a phone as a jpg file or as an Excel-like spreadsheet for instance.
This topic is called "distributed computing".




Puckdropper

It would be useless to a phone.
I use cygwin (*nix) like interface on windows so I can get my data in a
format that's useable. Having Xterm window is very important, I can get
more real estate , and control how it's displayed.

--
Jeff

On 12/28/2016 1:41 AM, Bill wrote:
wrote:

Like to see anyone get any productivity running a high end CAD
application on an I-Phone!!! Or even a decent database .

You don't think you cell phone is capable of invoking database
transactions? Think of your phone as containing the "on" switch.

Recently my daughter and her husband were playing gin, and she pulled
out her cell phone to keep score. I asked what she was using to keep
score and she said Excel... I said isn't that over kill, she said it
was easy and didn't have a pencil and paper handy...

PC's (aka cell phones) are killing windows. None of my kids have
desktop computers, they have old lap tops they rarely to never use.

My wife bought herself a computer, I later discovered it was not really
a computer, it was a giant cell phone w/o the phone part (Nextbook I
think it is), with a detachable keyboard. It runs on the Android OS.
The closest thing to a computer she has is an Ipad, that also runs on a
Unix based OS. She also has a Kindle (also Android/UNIX). She sits
around all day with her cell phone, Nextbook, Ipad, and Kindle all
hooked up to the internet, playing games, and buying crap. All are
based on UNIX not DOS/Windows. Yep, Window is about over, and the sooner
the better as it has always been, and still is, garbage.

Think about this, in 1994, OS/2 could cut and paste between DOS, WIN and
OS/2 apps all running concurrently. Windows figured out how to do it
between DOS and WIN, (albeit lamely as hell) over 20 years later with
Win 10.

WINS scripting language (Power Shell) is a diabolical piece of crap,
designed by the morons of the computing world. OS/2 had REXX for it's
scripts which was powerful, yet any moron could learn it.

OS/2 used standard config files anyone could master. Win uses the
convoluted piece of garbage called the registry. Anyone that has the
balls to fool around with that mess knows the meaning of labyrinth. It
must have been designed by the same fools that created the almost
unlearnable Power Shell script language.

Yep, Kids today have little use for Desktops, and it's convoluted piece
of crap OS. The ironic thing is Win was supposed to be an easy user
interface designed for the computer illiterate. In reality, it is a
horrible user interface that is next to impossible for even the computer
literate to have a clue how to fix when it breaks, which it always does,
because it is crap. Now, everyone is using UNIX, with user interfaces
any computer illiterate (my wife) can use, and they never seem to break.
Very cool.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 12/27/2016 11:55 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 12/25/2016 10:22 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:

When I got my first computer the first thing I did was install OS/2.

My first computer ran DOS 2.1, because 2.0 never worked.

I ran several computers on OS/2 including a LAN server until the
1990. and
when the company I worked for was purchased by a company who ran the
Windows server.

When I purchased a new personal computer and was forced into the of
world Windows 98, it was like going back into the dark ages.

I ran OS/2 at home for many years, until IBM saw it was about to kill
windows, then they, (and I begrudgingly) let it go.

It was never "about to kill Windows". If it was
achieving any significant market penetration IBM
would have kept producing it. Why would IBM have
any qualms about killing Windows?

OS/2 was never promoted by IBM. It had a huge user group that was
fighting an uphill battle with IBM to even make it available to the
public. Few computer stores would stock it, either because MS
threatened them to not sell it, or because IBM didn't want it sold.

Why, well one reason would be IBM was afraid of another Anti-trust suit
if they controlled both the hardware and software end of the PC world.
Another would be they created MS so they would control the software end,
while they did the hardware and maintenance end and Intel controlled the
chip end. Who knows.

What I do know is the OS/2 user world had been waiting for OS/2 to get
to "Critical Mass" which was expected to be 1 million copies sold a
month. They finally reached that point, in spite of about zero
promotion from IBM, and IBM IMMEDIATELY pulled the plug. It was
patently obvious what IBM was up to, but the reasons behind it was up to
the outside world to speculate. My guess is it was pretty much the same
reason IBM decided to put Gates (a college drop out with no OS) in
business instead of developing their own OS for their computers.

OS/2 WARP not only made WIN 95 and Win 98 look like they were from the dark ages,
it would make WIN 10 look like it is from the dark ages.

That's a matter of opinion. Yours is much in
the minority.

Not by those with years of intimate experience with UNIX, DOS and OS/2.

You could run DOS, WIN95 and OS/2 apps all at the same time, seamlessly.

No, you could not. The built in support for
Windows ended at Windows 3.1. There was no
support at all for native Windows 95
applications, EVER.

Well it ran all 3 concurrently and seamlessly.

When WIN would crash, like it has always done since it's first
version, everything else kept running, and all you need to do was close
the WIN session and open another.

If Windows 10 is crashing on you you need to
repair your computer. The ones that I've seen
that do that either are on broken hardware or
were upgraded from an older version--the upgrade
doesn't clean house thoroughly enough
apparently.

Granted, since XP, Win has almost worked, but not close to OS/2 or Unix.
Win 10 upgrade for me worked fine. I bought a new PC and it had WIN
10 already on it. This one is giving me fits, one thing after another.
At least once a week it loses the internet connection and so far, I
have to reboot to get it to work. It's not the modem either, as all
other devices hooked up via WiFi continue to work fine. Also, after one
update, the mouse periodically decides to intermittently jump around out
of control. Really sucks, and this seems to be a common problem based
on searches on the issue.

Windows (Microsoft) is the scourge of computing. It is a perfect
example of why the government invented anti-trust laws, and
unfortunately, what can happen if they are ignored/bought off. Another
feather in the Clinton reign of corruption.

sound of world's tiniest violin

Probably not a Strad, right? It would sound a LOT better to the trained
ear:-)
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

In article ,
says...

You could run DOS, WIN95 and OS/2 apps all at the same time, seamlessly.

No, you could not. The built in support for
Windows ended at Windows 3.1. There was no
support at all for native Windows 95
applications, EVER.

Well it ran all 3 concurrently and seamlessly.

Jack, you don't know jack.

OS/2 never ran Windows 95 applications. It
didn't run them "seamlessly", it didn't run them
non-seamlessly, it didn't run them concurrently,
it didn't run them non-concurrently, it didn't
run them at all.

Microsoft changed the Windows API in Windows 95
from the Windows 3.x API to a subset of the
Windows NT API,and IBM never implemented the
Windows NT API in OS/2, so Windows 95
applications could not run. Period.

Your continuing to assert otherwise doesn't make
it so.

J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...
Puckdropper wrote:
Bill wrote in
news
wrote:
Like to see anyone get any productivity running a high end CAD
application on an I-Phone!!! Or even a decent database .
You don't think you cell phone is capable of invoking database
transactions? Think of your phone as containing the "on" switch.

Oh that's not it... He's thinking about doing complicated database work,
not just pushing buttons and making stuff go into databases. Things like
SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users, administrators where ID='';DROP TABLE
administrators; -- 10T' order by name;

It was hard enough to type that gobblygook in on a real keyboard, let alone
an emulated one on a tablet.
My point is that it's just a character string. It could be returned to
a phone as a jpg file or as an Excel-like spreadsheet for instance.
This topic is called "distributed computing".
OK, Bill, type "SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users,
administrators where ID='';DROP TABLE
administrators; -- 10T' order by name;" into
your cell phone a hundred times and see if you
still prefer it to a keyboard.

You really missed the point. All I have to do is browse to my mobile
website and choose and/or modify one of the options there. If you are
going to innovate, you need to think out the box!

In article ,
says...

J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...
Puckdropper wrote:
Bill wrote in
news
wrote:
Like to see anyone get any productivity running a high end CAD
application on an I-Phone!!! Or even a decent database .
You don't think you cell phone is capable of invoking database
transactions? Think of your phone as containing the "on" switch.

Oh that's not it... He's thinking about doing complicated database work,
not just pushing buttons and making stuff go into databases. Things like
SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users, administrators where ID='';DROP TABLE
administrators; -- 10T' order by name;

It was hard enough to type that gobblygook in on a real keyboard, let alone
an emulated one on a tablet.
My point is that it's just a character string. It could be returned to
a phone as a jpg file or as an Excel-like spreadsheet for instance.
This topic is called "distributed computing".
OK, Bill, type "SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users,
administrators where ID='';DROP TABLE
administrators; -- 10T' order by name;" into
your cell phone a hundred times and see if you
still prefer it to a keyboard.

You really missed the point. All I have to do is browse to my mobile
website and choose and/or modify one of the options there. If you are
going to innovate, you need to think out the box!

OK, show us the link the option which one
modifies to enter that exact query into any
randomly selected SQL database, including the
ones behind corporate firewalls.

You clearly have never programmed for a living
if you think everything can be done by clicking
links on a web page.

J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...
J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...
Puckdropper wrote:
Bill wrote in
news
wrote:
Like to see anyone get any productivity running a high end CAD
application on an I-Phone!!! Or even a decent database .
You don't think you cell phone is capable of invoking database
transactions? Think of your phone as containing the "on" switch.

Oh that's not it... He's thinking about doing complicated database work,
not just pushing buttons and making stuff go into databases. Things like
SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users, administrators where ID='';DROP TABLE
administrators; -- 10T' order by name;

It was hard enough to type that gobblygook in on a real keyboard, let alone
an emulated one on a tablet.
My point is that it's just a character string. It could be returned to
a phone as a jpg file or as an Excel-like spreadsheet for instance.
This topic is called "distributed computing".
OK, Bill, type "SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users,
administrators where ID='';DROP TABLE
administrators; -- 10T' order by name;" into
your cell phone a hundred times and see if you
still prefer it to a keyboard.
You really missed the point. All I have to do is browse to my mobile
website and choose and/or modify one of the options there. If you are
going to innovate, you need to think out the box!
OK, show us the link the option which one
modifies to enter that exact query into any
randomly selected SQL database, including the
ones behind corporate firewalls.

You clearly have never programmed for a living
if you think everything can be done by clicking
links on a web page.

Oops, I have. In fact, I have a MS in CS with an emphasis in distributed
computing.
I have created web sites which made ample use of Oracle databases--they
were mostly navigable by mouse. So, stop, take a deep breath. I
suppose the idea that someone might be able to query a database "with
spoken words" is even stranger to you--but if you think about it, you
can find a few examples on the market today. Right?

Cheers,
Bill

Bill wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:


You clearly have never programmed for a living
if you think everything can be done by clicking
links on a web page.

Oops, I have. In fact, I have a MS in CS with an emphasis in
distributed computing.
I have created web sites which made ample use of Oracle
databases--they were mostly navigable by mouse. So, stop, take a
deep breath. I suppose the idea that someone might be able to query a
database "with spoken words" is even stranger to you--but if you think
about it, you can find a few examples on the market today. Right?

Cheers,
Bill

Mr. Clarke,

Here's a nice example for you (I just ran across at random)! The girl
was only 6 years old too!
: )

http://kdvr.com/2016/12/28/girl-uses...s-from-amazon/



Bill

In article ,
says...

J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...
J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...
Puckdropper wrote:
Bill wrote in
news
wrote:
Like to see anyone get any productivity running a high end CAD
application on an I-Phone!!! Or even a decent database .
You don't think you cell phone is capable of invoking database
transactions? Think of your phone as containing the "on" switch.

Oh that's not it... He's thinking about doing complicated database work,
not just pushing buttons and making stuff go into databases. Things like
SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users, administrators where ID='';DROP TABLE
administrators; -- 10T' order by name;

It was hard enough to type that gobblygook in on a real keyboard, let alone
an emulated one on a tablet.
My point is that it's just a character string. It could be returned to
a phone as a jpg file or as an Excel-like spreadsheet for instance.
This topic is called "distributed computing".
OK, Bill, type "SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users,
administrators where ID='';DROP TABLE
administrators; -- 10T' order by name;" into
your cell phone a hundred times and see if you
still prefer it to a keyboard.
You really missed the point. All I have to do is browse to my mobile
website and choose and/or modify one of the options there. If you are
going to innovate, you need to think out the box!
OK, show us the link the option which one
modifies to enter that exact query into any
randomly selected SQL database, including the
ones behind corporate firewalls.

You clearly have never programmed for a living
if you think everything can be done by clicking
links on a web page.

Oops, I have. In fact, I have a MS in CS with an emphasis in distributed
computing.

That explains much. When you've actually had a
programming job get back to us.

I have created web sites which made ample use of Oracle databases--they
were mostly navigable by mouse.

That's nice. Did you create them by pointing
and clicking on web sites?

So, stop, take a deep breath. I
suppose the idea that someone might be able to query a database "with
spoken words" is even stranger to you--but if you think about it, you
can find a few examples on the market today. Right?

Why don't you provide us with an example that
lets me query, say, the policy database at a
Fortune 100 life insurance company with spoken
words.

In article ,
says...

Bill wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:


You clearly have never programmed for a living
if you think everything can be done by clicking
links on a web page.

Oops, I have. In fact, I have a MS in CS with an emphasis in
distributed computing.
I have created web sites which made ample use of Oracle
databases--they were mostly navigable by mouse. So, stop, take a
deep breath. I suppose the idea that someone might be able to query a
database "with spoken words" is even stranger to you--but if you think
about it, you can find a few examples on the market today. Right?

Cheers,
Bill

Mr. Clarke,

Here's a nice example for you (I just ran across at random)! The girl
was only 6 years old too!
: )

http://kdvr.com/2016/12/28/girl-uses...s-from-amazon/

That's nice. When that 8 year old girl enters
""SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users, administrators
where ID='';DROP TABLE administrators; -- 10T'
order by name;", get back to us.

No, don't bother. Not interested in more crap
from some theoretician.

Jack wrote in news
On 12/28/2016 1:41 AM, Bill wrote:

Recently my daughter and her husband were playing gin, and she pulled
out her cell phone to keep score. I asked what she was using to keep
score and she said Excel... I said isn't that over kill, she said it
was easy and didn't have a pencil and paper handy...

PC's (aka cell phones) are killing windows. None of my kids have
desktop computers, they have old lap tops they rarely to never use.

Bad UI is kiling Windows. Cell phones are taking over because the
experience is usually much better.

My wife bought herself a computer, I later discovered it was not
really a computer, it was a giant cell phone w/o the phone part
(Nextbook I think it is), with a detachable keyboard. It runs on the
Android OS. The closest thing to a computer she has is an Ipad, that
also runs on a Unix based OS. She also has a Kindle (also
Android/UNIX). She sits around all day with her cell phone, Nextbook,
Ipad, and Kindle all hooked up to the internet, playing games, and
buying crap. All are based on UNIX not DOS/Windows. Yep, Window is
about over, and the sooner the better as it has always been, and still
is, garbage.

There was a quote from Bill Gates I came across a few months ago:
"Microsoft is always 2 years from being out of business." He knew if he
didn't keep the company innovating and at least producing usable stuff,
they'd be gone really fast. Too bad has successor doesn't seem to
understand that... We might not have a Microsoft soon. (As bad as M$ can
be, Apple and Google are worse.)

Think about this, in 1994, OS/2 could cut and paste between DOS, WIN
and OS/2 apps all running concurrently. Windows figured out how to do
it between DOS and WIN, (albeit lamely as hell) over 20 years later
with Win 10.

WINS scripting language (Power Shell) is a diabolical piece of crap,
designed by the morons of the computing world. OS/2 had REXX for it's
scripts which was powerful, yet any moron could learn it.

It's worth the time to install Perl or something. I tried Power Shell,
it was a bigger piece of junk than batch files, and doing intelligent
things with batch files is pretty awful.

OS/2 used standard config files anyone could master. Win uses the
convoluted piece of garbage called the registry. Anyone that has the
balls to fool around with that mess knows the meaning of labyrinth.
It must have been designed by the same fools that created the almost
unlearnable Power Shell script language.

The fellow who created the registry had one thing to say about it:
I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry.

There's a few good things the registry is good at, but it's such a mine
field I don't know what that thing hasn't been replaced yet. The
problem was a configuration file would take 4K on disk because of a 4K
sector size, but only had 16 bytes. It's no big deal now, we've got
tons of 4K sectors but that kind of waste is why modern systems run so
slowly compared to their late-90's counterparts.

Yep, Kids today have little use for Desktops, and it's convoluted
piece of crap OS. The ironic thing is Win was supposed to be an easy
user interface designed for the computer illiterate. In reality, it is
a horrible user interface that is next to impossible for even the
computer literate to have a clue how to fix when it breaks, which it
always does, because it is crap. Now, everyone is using UNIX, with
user interfaces any computer illiterate (my wife) can use, and they
never seem to break.
Very cool.


Like I said, Windows used to be really really good. Windows 7 is
fantastic in terms of UI, it's set the standard for many UIs and then
Microsoft screwed everything up completely.

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...
Bill wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:

You clearly have never programmed for a living
if you think everything can be done by clicking
links on a web page.
Oops, I have. In fact, I have a MS in CS with an emphasis in
distributed computing.
I have created web sites which made ample use of Oracle
databases--they were mostly navigable by mouse. So, stop, take a
deep breath. I suppose the idea that someone might be able to query a
database "with spoken words" is even stranger to you--but if you think
about it, you can find a few examples on the market today. Right?

Cheers,
Bill

Mr. Clarke,

Here's a nice example for you (I just ran across at random)! The girl
was only 6 years old too!
: )

http://kdvr.com/2016/12/28/girl-uses...s-from-amazon/
That's nice. When that 8 year old girl enters
""SELECT * from LEFT JOIN users, administrators
where ID='';DROP TABLE administrators; -- 10T'
order by name;", get back to us.

No, don't bother. Not interested in more crap
from some theoretician.

I told you that I have programmed for a living (not including teaching
other how to).
To seem to be of the opinion that the only way to query a database is
directly with SQL.
I'm telling you it ain't so. We are not talking about creating and
populating a database through a phone- just doing the majority of things
(which you might properly called "canned transactions"). Get off of
your high horse, Mr. SQL Clarke. SQL was designed to be easy to use.
Evidently, it's so easy a 6-year old can use it...

Bill

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:


Jack, you don't know jack.

OS/2 never ran Windows 95 applications. It
didn't run them "seamlessly", it didn't run them
non-seamlessly, it didn't run them concurrently,
it didn't run them non-concurrently, it didn't
run them at all.

Microsoft changed the Windows API in Windows 95
from the Windows 3.x API to a subset of the
Windows NT API,and IBM never implemented the
Windows NT API in OS/2, so Windows 95
applications could not run. Period.

Your continuing to assert otherwise doesn't make
it so.


By that time, IBM was continuing development of OS/2 alone. OS/2
actually started out as a joint venture between M$ and IBM, but M$
eventually pulled out.

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On 29 Dec 2016 02:28:40 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Jack wrote in news
On 12/28/2016 1:41 AM, Bill wrote:

Recently my daughter and her husband were playing gin, and she pulled
out her cell phone to keep score. I asked what she was using to keep
score and she said Excel... I said isn't that over kill, she said it
was easy and didn't have a pencil and paper handy...

PC's (aka cell phones) are killing windows. None of my kids have
desktop computers, they have old lap tops they rarely to never use.

Bad UI is kiling Windows. Cell phones are taking over because the
experience is usually much better.

I disagree with that completely. I can't imagine Sketchup on a phone.
Phones are great as always-with-me devices but they don't in any way
replace a decent display, keyboard, lots of memory, and processing
power.

My wife bought herself a computer, I later discovered it was not
really a computer, it was a giant cell phone w/o the phone part
(Nextbook I think it is), with a detachable keyboard. It runs on the
Android OS. The closest thing to a computer she has is an Ipad, that
also runs on a Unix based OS. She also has a Kindle (also
Android/UNIX). She sits around all day with her cell phone, Nextbook,
Ipad, and Kindle all hooked up to the internet, playing games, and
buying crap. All are based on UNIX not DOS/Windows. Yep, Window is
about over, and the sooner the better as it has always been, and still
is, garbage.

There was a quote from Bill Gates I came across a few months ago:
"Microsoft is always 2 years from being out of business." He knew if he
didn't keep the company innovating and at least producing usable stuff,
they'd be gone really fast. Too bad has successor doesn't seem to
understand that... We might not have a Microsoft soon. (As bad as M$ can
be, Apple and Google are worse.)

Certainly innovation is the key to survival but (at least) one of
these companies is going to surive.

snip

Like I said, Windows used to be really really good. Windows 7 is
fantastic in terms of UI, it's set the standard for many UIs and then
Microsoft screwed everything up completely.

So far (a week), I've found Win10 to be acceptable (too early to tell
more). It seems to have taken the best (very little) of Win8 and
grafted it onto Win7. It's much smoother with a touchscreen than Win7
but functions in a similar manner.

In article 586474d8$0$59602$c3e8da3$460562f1
@news.astraweb.com, Puckdropper says...

Jack wrote in news
On 12/28/2016 1:41 AM, Bill wrote:

Recently my daughter and her husband were playing gin, and she pulled
out her cell phone to keep score. I asked what she was using to keep
score and she said Excel... I said isn't that over kill, she said it
was easy and didn't have a pencil and paper handy...

PC's (aka cell phones) are killing windows. None of my kids have
desktop computers, they have old lap tops they rarely to never use.

Bad UI is kiling Windows. Cell phones are taking over because the
experience is usually much better.

My wife bought herself a computer, I later discovered it was not
really a computer, it was a giant cell phone w/o the phone part
(Nextbook I think it is), with a detachable keyboard. It runs on the
Android OS. The closest thing to a computer she has is an Ipad, that
also runs on a Unix based OS. She also has a Kindle (also
Android/UNIX). She sits around all day with her cell phone, Nextbook,
Ipad, and Kindle all hooked up to the internet, playing games, and
buying crap. All are based on UNIX not DOS/Windows. Yep, Window is
about over, and the sooner the better as it has always been, and still
is, garbage.

There was a quote from Bill Gates I came across a few months ago:
"Microsoft is always 2 years from being out of business." He knew if he
didn't keep the company innovating and at least producing usable stuff,
they'd be gone really fast. Too bad has successor doesn't seem to
understand that... We might not have a Microsoft soon. (As bad as M$ can
be, Apple and Google are worse.)

Think about this, in 1994, OS/2 could cut and paste between DOS, WIN
and OS/2 apps all running concurrently. Windows figured out how to do
it between DOS and WIN, (albeit lamely as hell) over 20 years later
with Win 10.

WINS scripting language (Power Shell) is a diabolical piece of crap,
designed by the morons of the computing world. OS/2 had REXX for it's
scripts which was powerful, yet any moron could learn it.

It's worth the time to install Perl or something. I tried Power Shell,
it was a bigger piece of junk than batch files, and doing intelligent
things with batch files is pretty awful.

OS/2 used standard config files anyone could master. Win uses the
convoluted piece of garbage called the registry. Anyone that has the
balls to fool around with that mess knows the meaning of labyrinth.
It must have been designed by the same fools that created the almost
unlearnable Power Shell script language.

The fellow who created the registry had one thing to say about it:
I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry.

There's a few good things the registry is good at, but it's such a mine
field I don't know what that thing hasn't been replaced yet. The
problem was a configuration file would take 4K on disk because of a 4K
sector size, but only had 16 bytes. It's no big deal now, we've got
tons of 4K sectors but that kind of waste is why modern systems run so
slowly compared to their late-90's counterparts.

The problem the registry was intended to address
was relocation on a network. Look at the design
of it, and it's quite clever--it splits things
out into user-specific and hardware-specific
sections so that when a user moves to a
different workstation with different hardware,
only the parts of his configuration that are
hardware independent get copied.

The reason it's such a mess is that software
vendors don't document the configuration of
their software and often put pieces in the wrong
locations.

Yep, Kids today have little use for Desktops, and it's convoluted
piece of crap OS. The ironic thing is Win was supposed to be an easy
user interface designed for the computer illiterate. In reality, it is
a horrible user interface that is next to impossible for even the
computer literate to have a clue how to fix when it breaks, which it
always does, because it is crap. Now, everyone is using UNIX, with
user interfaces any computer illiterate (my wife) can use, and they
never seem to break.
Very cool.


Like I said, Windows used to be really really good. Windows 7 is
fantastic in terms of UI, it's set the standard for many UIs and then
Microsoft screwed everything up completely.

Windows 8 was a mess, Windows 10 is kind of
growing on me.

In article 9vt86c97sippsgqrhp8nu3haod2ootolmi@
4ax.com, says...

On 29 Dec 2016 02:28:40 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Jack wrote in news
On 12/28/2016 1:41 AM, Bill wrote:

Recently my daughter and her husband were playing gin, and she pulled
out her cell phone to keep score. I asked what she was using to keep
score and she said Excel... I said isn't that over kill, she said it
was easy and didn't have a pencil and paper handy...

PC's (aka cell phones) are killing windows. None of my kids have
desktop computers, they have old lap tops they rarely to never use.

Bad UI is kiling Windows. Cell phones are taking over because the
experience is usually much better.

I disagree with that completely. I can't imagine Sketchup on a phone.
Phones are great as always-with-me devices but they don't in any way
replace a decent display, keyboard, lots of memory, and processing
power.

Cell phones have remarkable processing power--
they're solidly into '70s supercomputer
territory--but desktops today are real
monsters--if you know how to use it any decent
gamer rig can turn out trillions of operations a
second.

But the screen real estate is the real kicker--
if I want to spend a thousand bucks I can have
20 square feet of screen real estate and all of
it sharp.

My wife bought herself a computer, I later discovered it was not
really a computer, it was a giant cell phone w/o the phone part
(Nextbook I think it is), with a detachable keyboard. It runs on the
Android OS. The closest thing to a computer she has is an Ipad, that
also runs on a Unix based OS. She also has a Kindle (also
Android/UNIX). She sits around all day with her cell phone, Nextbook,
Ipad, and Kindle all hooked up to the internet, playing games, and
buying crap. All are based on UNIX not DOS/Windows. Yep, Window is
about over, and the sooner the better as it has always been, and still
is, garbage.

There was a quote from Bill Gates I came across a few months ago:
"Microsoft is always 2 years from being out of business." He knew if he
didn't keep the company innovating and at least producing usable stuff,
they'd be gone really fast. Too bad has successor doesn't seem to
understand that... We might not have a Microsoft soon. (As bad as M$ can
be, Apple and Google are worse.)

Certainly innovation is the key to survival but (at least) one of
these companies is going to surive.

The worrisome thing is that it might be Google,
whose philophy seems to be "all your data are
belong to us"--somebody sent me an email
confirming an appointment the other day and
Google managed to extract the details and add
them to my calendar without my asking, which is
cool as Hell from one viewpoint but scary as all
getout from another.

snip

Like I said, Windows used to be really really good. Windows 7 is
fantastic in terms of UI, it's set the standard for many UIs and then
Microsoft screwed everything up completely.

So far (a week), I've found Win10 to be acceptable (too early to tell
more). It seems to have taken the best (very little) of Win8 and
grafted it onto Win7. It's much smoother with a touchscreen than Win7
but functions in a similar manner.

And works well without a touchscreen.

In article 586476c1$0$59602$c3e8da3$460562f1
@news.astraweb.com, Puckdropper says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:


Jack, you don't know jack.

OS/2 never ran Windows 95 applications. It
didn't run them "seamlessly", it didn't run them
non-seamlessly, it didn't run them concurrently,
it didn't run them non-concurrently, it didn't
run them at all.

Microsoft changed the Windows API in Windows 95
from the Windows 3.x API to a subset of the
Windows NT API,and IBM never implemented the
Windows NT API in OS/2, so Windows 95
applications could not run. Period.

Your continuing to assert otherwise doesn't make
it so.


By that time, IBM was continuing development of OS/2 alone. OS/2
actually started out as a joint venture between M$ and IBM, but M$
eventually pulled out.

Yep, if the squirrels haven't gotten them I may
still have OS/2 1.something on Microsoft-
labelled diskettes upstairs. I didn't own
anything on which it would install until Warp
was already out so I never got to play with it--
if I come across it again I might take a shot at
putting on one of my Model 70s and see if it
goes.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 22:25:51 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article 9vt86c97sippsgqrhp8nu3haod2ootolmi@
4ax.com, says...

On 29 Dec 2016 02:28:40 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Jack wrote in news
On 12/28/2016 1:41 AM, Bill wrote:

Recently my daughter and her husband were playing gin, and she pulled
out her cell phone to keep score. I asked what she was using to keep
score and she said Excel... I said isn't that over kill, she said it
was easy and didn't have a pencil and paper handy...

PC's (aka cell phones) are killing windows. None of my kids have
desktop computers, they have old lap tops they rarely to never use.

Bad UI is kiling Windows. Cell phones are taking over because the
experience is usually much better.

I disagree with that completely. I can't imagine Sketchup on a phone.
Phones are great as always-with-me devices but they don't in any way
replace a decent display, keyboard, lots of memory, and processing
power.

Cell phones have remarkable processing power--
they're solidly into '70s supercomputer
territory--but desktops today are real
monsters--if you know how to use it any decent
gamer rig can turn out trillions of operations a
second.

70s supercomputers didn't have multi-gigabit-per-second graphics
interfaces. That takes CPU, as well as GPU, power.

But the screen real estate is the real kicker--
if I want to spend a thousand bucks I can have
20 square feet of screen real estate and all of
it sharp.

For low values of "sharp". You can't drive much higher resolution
than 4K with current hardware.

My wife bought herself a computer, I later discovered it was not
really a computer, it was a giant cell phone w/o the phone part
(Nextbook I think it is), with a detachable keyboard. It runs on the
Android OS. The closest thing to a computer she has is an Ipad, that
also runs on a Unix based OS. She also has a Kindle (also
Android/UNIX). She sits around all day with her cell phone, Nextbook,
Ipad, and Kindle all hooked up to the internet, playing games, and
buying crap. All are based on UNIX not DOS/Windows. Yep, Window is
about over, and the sooner the better as it has always been, and still
is, garbage.

There was a quote from Bill Gates I came across a few months ago:
"Microsoft is always 2 years from being out of business." He knew if he
didn't keep the company innovating and at least producing usable stuff,
they'd be gone really fast. Too bad has successor doesn't seem to
understand that... We might not have a Microsoft soon. (As bad as M$ can
be, Apple and Google are worse.)

Certainly innovation is the key to survival but (at least) one of
these companies is going to surive.

The worrisome thing is that it might be Google,
whose philophy seems to be "all your data are
belong to us"--somebody sent me an email
confirming an appointment the other day and
Google managed to extract the details and add
them to my calendar without my asking, which is
cool as Hell from one viewpoint but scary as all
getout from another.

M$ isn't any different, if you believe their EULA.

snip

Like I said, Windows used to be really really good. Windows 7 is
fantastic in terms of UI, it's set the standard for many UIs and then
Microsoft screwed everything up completely.

So far (a week), I've found Win10 to be acceptable (too early to tell
more). It seems to have taken the best (very little) of Win8 and
grafted it onto Win7. It's much smoother with a touchscreen than Win7
but functions in a similar manner.

And works well without a touchscreen.

Not sure what your point is, above. A touchscreen is another,
valuable, tool. It's almost as useful as it is on a phone. The
difference is that a phone is useless without it.

In article sr096cpmspgji91m8qmi8m9oa5ichkh7q1@
4ax.com, says...

On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 22:25:51 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article 9vt86c97sippsgqrhp8nu3haod2ootolmi@
4ax.com, says...

On 29 Dec 2016 02:28:40 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Jack wrote in news
On 12/28/2016 1:41 AM, Bill wrote:

Recently my daughter and her husband were playing gin, and she pulled
out her cell phone to keep score. I asked what she was using to keep
score and she said Excel... I said isn't that over kill, she said it
was easy and didn't have a pencil and paper handy...

PC's (aka cell phones) are killing windows. None of my kids have
desktop computers, they have old lap tops they rarely to never use.

Bad UI is kiling Windows. Cell phones are taking over because the
experience is usually much better.

I disagree with that completely. I can't imagine Sketchup on a phone.
Phones are great as always-with-me devices but they don't in any way
replace a decent display, keyboard, lots of memory, and processing
power.

Cell phones have remarkable processing power--
they're solidly into '70s supercomputer
territory--but desktops today are real
monsters--if you know how to use it any decent
gamer rig can turn out trillions of operations a
second.

70s supercomputers didn't have multi-gigabit-per-second graphics
interfaces. That takes CPU, as well as GPU, power.

So?

It seems to have escaped your notice that a
modern GPU can be used for purposes other than
showing pretty pictures on a screen. In fact
the manufacturers of those GPUs sell different
versions of them that eliminate the video
components completely that are intended to be
used as computation engines.

But the screen real estate is the real
kicker--
if I want to spend a thousand bucks I can have
20 square feet of screen real estate and all of
it sharp.

For low values of "sharp". You can't drive much higher resolution
than 4K with current hardware.

That would be news to nvidia. All their version
10 boards handle 7680 x 4320.

My wife bought herself a computer, I later discovered it was not
really a computer, it was a giant cell phone w/o the phone part
(Nextbook I think it is), with a detachable keyboard. It runs on the
Android OS. The closest thing to a computer she has is an Ipad, that
also runs on a Unix based OS. She also has a Kindle (also
Android/UNIX). She sits around all day with her cell phone, Nextbook,
Ipad, and Kindle all hooked up to the internet, playing games, and
buying crap. All are based on UNIX not DOS/Windows. Yep, Window is
about over, and the sooner the better as it has always been, and still
is, garbage.

There was a quote from Bill Gates I came across a few months ago:
"Microsoft is always 2 years from being out of business." He knew if he
didn't keep the company innovating and at least producing usable stuff,
they'd be gone really fast. Too bad has successor doesn't seem to
understand that... We might not have a Microsoft soon. (As bad as M$ can
be, Apple and Google are worse.)

Certainly innovation is the key to survival but (at least) one of
these companies is going to surive.

The worrisome thing is that it might be Google,
whose philophy seems to be "all your data are
belong to us"--somebody sent me an email
confirming an appointment the other day and
Google managed to extract the details and add
them to my calendar without my asking, which is
cool as Hell from one viewpoint but scary as all
getout from another.

M$ isn't any different, if you believe their EULA.

Microsoft doesn't snoop every search you make on
the Internet and then fill your screen with ads
based on the stuff you searched.

snip

Like I said, Windows used to be really really good. Windows 7 is
fantastic in terms of UI, it's set the standard for many UIs and then
Microsoft screwed everything up completely.

So far (a week), I've found Win10 to be acceptable (too early to tell
more). It seems to have taken the best (very little) of Win8 and
grafted it onto Win7. It's much smoother with a touchscreen than Win7
but functions in a similar manner.

And works well without a touchscreen.

Not sure what your point is, above. A touchscreen is another,
valuable, tool. It's almost as useful as it is on a phone. The
difference is that a phone is useless without it.

Windows 8 didn't work well without a
touchscreen. Windows 10 does. Our work laptops
have touchscreens. Nobody uses them.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Windows 8 didn't work well without a
touchscreen. Windows 10 does. Our work laptops
have touchscreens. Nobody uses them.

Win 8 worked fine without a touch screen if one dumped the MS tile stuff and
used Classic Shell, Start8, etc. Of course, it lacked Win 10 goodies such
as Edge, Cortana and forced updates.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 08:08:11 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article sr096cpmspgji91m8qmi8m9oa5ichkh7q1@
4ax.com, says...

On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 22:25:51 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article 9vt86c97sippsgqrhp8nu3haod2ootolmi@
4ax.com, says...

On 29 Dec 2016 02:28:40 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Jack wrote in news
On 12/28/2016 1:41 AM, Bill wrote:

Recently my daughter and her husband were playing gin, and she pulled
out her cell phone to keep score. I asked what she was using to keep
score and she said Excel... I said isn't that over kill, she said it
was easy and didn't have a pencil and paper handy...

PC's (aka cell phones) are killing windows. None of my kids have
desktop computers, they have old lap tops they rarely to never use.

Bad UI is kiling Windows. Cell phones are taking over because the
experience is usually much better.

I disagree with that completely. I can't imagine Sketchup on a phone.
Phones are great as always-with-me devices but they don't in any way
replace a decent display, keyboard, lots of memory, and processing
power.

Cell phones have remarkable processing power--
they're solidly into '70s supercomputer
territory--but desktops today are real
monsters--if you know how to use it any decent
gamer rig can turn out trillions of operations a
second.

70s supercomputers didn't have multi-gigabit-per-second graphics
interfaces. That takes CPU, as well as GPU, power.

So?

You're the one who equated a '70s supercompuer to a cell phone. I'm
pointing out that that's a false comparison.

It seems to have escaped your notice that a
modern GPU can be used for purposes other than
showing pretty pictures on a screen. In fact
the manufacturers of those GPUs sell different
versions of them that eliminate the video
components completely that are intended to be
used as computation engines.

No, it hadn't escaped my notice but it's completely irrelevant.

But the screen real estate is the real
kicker--
if I want to spend a thousand bucks I can have
20 square feet of screen real estate and all of
it sharp.

For low values of "sharp". You can't drive much higher resolution
than 4K with current hardware.

That would be news to nvidia. All their version
10 boards handle 7680 x 4320.

My wife bought herself a computer, I later discovered it was not
really a computer, it was a giant cell phone w/o the phone part
(Nextbook I think it is), with a detachable keyboard. It runs on the
Android OS. The closest thing to a computer she has is an Ipad, that
also runs on a Unix based OS. She also has a Kindle (also
Android/UNIX). She sits around all day with her cell phone, Nextbook,
Ipad, and Kindle all hooked up to the internet, playing games, and
buying crap. All are based on UNIX not DOS/Windows. Yep, Window is
about over, and the sooner the better as it has always been, and still
is, garbage.

There was a quote from Bill Gates I came across a few months ago:
"Microsoft is always 2 years from being out of business." He knew if he
didn't keep the company innovating and at least producing usable stuff,
they'd be gone really fast. Too bad has successor doesn't seem to
understand that... We might not have a Microsoft soon. (As bad as M$ can
be, Apple and Google are worse.)

Certainly innovation is the key to survival but (at least) one of
these companies is going to surive.

The worrisome thing is that it might be Google,
whose philophy seems to be "all your data are
belong to us"--somebody sent me an email
confirming an appointment the other day and
Google managed to extract the details and add
them to my calendar without my asking, which is
cool as Hell from one viewpoint but scary as all
getout from another.

M$ isn't any different, if you believe their EULA.

Microsoft doesn't snoop every search you make on
the Internet and then fill your screen with ads
based on the stuff you searched.

You don't know that and their EULA makes them the *OWNER* of
everything you do. I know pwople who can't run Windows because of
legal restrictions are contrary to the M$ EULA. The same people don't
use Google, for the same reasons.

Same, same.

snip

Like I said, Windows used to be really really good. Windows 7 is
fantastic in terms of UI, it's set the standard for many UIs and then
Microsoft screwed everything up completely.

So far (a week), I've found Win10 to be acceptable (too early to tell
more). It seems to have taken the best (very little) of Win8 and
grafted it onto Win7. It's much smoother with a touchscreen than Win7
but functions in a similar manner.

And works well without a touchscreen.

Not sure what your point is, above. A touchscreen is another,
valuable, tool. It's almost as useful as it is on a phone. The
difference is that a phone is useless without it.

Windows 8 didn't work well without a
touchscreen.

I didn't think it worked well with a touchscreen. It's always
blocked. Either way, Win8 was a loser. Win10 seems to be much more
robust.

Windows 10 does. Our work laptops
have touchscreens. Nobody uses them.

I've used a touch screen on my home laptops for five years and
wouldn't give it up (on a laptop). I'm not sure I'd use it on a 27"
workstation screen (even connected to a laptop), mainly because it
would be beyond my reach. I sure would use it on a work laptop but my
CPoE doesn't buy them. The laptops they buy are pretty lame. The
whole IT department is worse than lame.

I did factorial 1000 in 11 1/2 hours on my old 8080 in Basic.
Then I did it in machine language and it was down to 3+ hours. 1977.

I then ported it to an updated AT computer - 16 bit not 8 and it was
in floating point - and Double precision... Pig. It took days.

I didn't use high math - only integer. Integer on new computers drove
them crazy.

Both computers used printers at the end. The program came up and paused
asking for printer service. So they could be turned on set up and made
sure the paper was correct. (single shot of printout) - never changed
that. The 8080 used a daisy wheel printer with 132 column paper. The AT
used an OKI 132 column paper. Both had tractors.

Martin

On 12/28/2016 9:38 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 22:25:51 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article 9vt86c97sippsgqrhp8nu3haod2ootolmi@
4ax.com, says...

On 29 Dec 2016 02:28:40 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Jack wrote in news
On 12/28/2016 1:41 AM, Bill wrote:

Recently my daughter and her husband were playing gin, and she pulled
out her cell phone to keep score. I asked what she was using to keep
score and she said Excel... I said isn't that over kill, she said it
was easy and didn't have a pencil and paper handy...

PC's (aka cell phones) are killing windows. None of my kids have
desktop computers, they have old lap tops they rarely to never use.

Bad UI is kiling Windows. Cell phones are taking over because the
experience is usually much better.

I disagree with that completely. I can't imagine Sketchup on a phone.
Phones are great as always-with-me devices but they don't in any way
replace a decent display, keyboard, lots of memory, and processing
power.

Cell phones have remarkable processing power--
they're solidly into '70s supercomputer
territory--but desktops today are real
monsters--if you know how to use it any decent
gamer rig can turn out trillions of operations a
second.

70s supercomputers didn't have multi-gigabit-per-second graphics
interfaces. That takes CPU, as well as GPU, power.

But the screen real estate is the real kicker--
if I want to spend a thousand bucks I can have
20 square feet of screen real estate and all of
it sharp.

For low values of "sharp". You can't drive much higher resolution
than 4K with current hardware.

My wife bought herself a computer, I later discovered it was not
really a computer, it was a giant cell phone w/o the phone part
(Nextbook I think it is), with a detachable keyboard. It runs on the
Android OS. The closest thing to a computer she has is an Ipad, that
also runs on a Unix based OS. She also has a Kindle (also
Android/UNIX). She sits around all day with her cell phone, Nextbook,
Ipad, and Kindle all hooked up to the internet, playing games, and
buying crap. All are based on UNIX not DOS/Windows. Yep, Window is
about over, and the sooner the better as it has always been, and still
is, garbage.

There was a quote from Bill Gates I came across a few months ago:
"Microsoft is always 2 years from being out of business." He knew if he
didn't keep the company innovating and at least producing usable stuff,
they'd be gone really fast. Too bad has successor doesn't seem to
understand that... We might not have a Microsoft soon. (As bad as M$ can
be, Apple and Google are worse.)

Certainly innovation is the key to survival but (at least) one of
these companies is going to surive.

The worrisome thing is that it might be Google,
whose philophy seems to be "all your data are
belong to us"--somebody sent me an email
confirming an appointment the other day and
Google managed to extract the details and add
them to my calendar without my asking, which is
cool as Hell from one viewpoint but scary as all
getout from another.

M$ isn't any different, if you believe their EULA.

snip

Like I said, Windows used to be really really good. Windows 7 is
fantastic in terms of UI, it's set the standard for many UIs and then
Microsoft screwed everything up completely.

So far (a week), I've found Win10 to be acceptable (too early to tell
more). It seems to have taken the best (very little) of Win8 and
grafted it onto Win7. It's much smoother with a touchscreen than Win7
but functions in a similar manner.

And works well without a touchscreen.

Not sure what your point is, above. A touchscreen is another,
valuable, tool. It's almost as useful as it is on a phone. The
difference is that a phone is useless without it.

On 12/28/2016 12:44 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

You could run DOS, WIN95 and OS/2 apps all at the same time, seamlessly.

No, you could not. The built in support for
Windows ended at Windows 3.1. There was no
support at all for native Windows 95
applications, EVER.

Well it ran all 3 concurrently and seamlessly.

Jack, you don't know jack.

OS/2 never ran Windows 95 applications. It
didn't run them "seamlessly", it didn't run them
non-seamlessly, it didn't run them concurrently,
it didn't run them non-concurrently, it didn't
run them at all.

Microsoft changed the Windows API in Windows 95
from the Windows 3.x API to a subset of the
Windows NT API,and IBM never implemented the
Windows NT API in OS/2, so Windows 95
applications could not run. Period.

Your continuing to assert otherwise doesn't make
it so.

I wasn't clear, I meant, "well it ran all 3, [win3.1], DOS and OS/2
concurrently and seamlessly. I thought it ran 95 also, and it was 98
that MS screwed up sufficiently to block OS/2 from running it. All I can
say to you is, What Difference, at this point, does it make? It was a
long time ago and my memory isn't perfect, win3.1 win95, win98 all
equally junkware.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 12/28/2016 9:28 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Jack wrote in news

WINS scripting language (Power Shell) is a diabolical piece of crap,
designed by the morons of the computing world. OS/2 had REXX for it's
scripts which was powerful, yet any moron could learn it.

It's worth the time to install Perl or something. I tried Power Shell,
it was a bigger piece of junk than batch files, and doing intelligent
things with batch files is pretty awful.

Well DOS batch were/are real crap, perfect example of Gate's stupidity.
UNIX Bourne, bash, cshell etc batch programing, combined with AWK,
GAWK SED was/is sweet and unlike DOS crap, can do most anything. REXX
is even better and super easy to learn and use.


OS/2 used standard config files anyone could master. Win uses the
convoluted piece of garbage called the registry. Anyone that has the
balls to fool around with that mess knows the meaning of labyrinth.
It must have been designed by the same fools that created the almost
unlearnable Power Shell script language.

The fellow who created the registry had one thing to say about it:
I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
snip

Yeah, well that hasn't helped anyone feel better about it.

There's a few good things the registry is good at, but it's such a mine
field I don't know what that thing hasn't been replaced yet. The
problem was a configuration file would take 4K on disk because of a 4K
sector size, but only had 16 bytes. It's no big deal now, we've got
tons of 4K sectors but that kind of waste is why modern systems run so
slowly compared to their late-90's counterparts.

Personally, I think millions of new computers have been sold because the
registry became totally F***ed up and people just went out and bought a
new computer.

Like I said, Windows used to be really really good. Windows 7 is
fantastic in terms of UI, it's set the standard for many UIs and then
Microsoft screwed everything up completely.

Like I said, OS/2 was the only "windows" that actually worked. It worked
perfect, really, really, really a lot better than any version of
windows. XP, 7 and 10 are OK, but they are still far behind OS/2 in
most everything, including stability and ease of use. Take a look at
your start up files in Services and see what a convoluted mess win is.
It's a wonder this crap even works at all.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 12/30/2016 11:03 AM, Jack wrote:


Well DOS batch were/are real crap, perfect example of Gate's stupidity.

Yeah, that is why he is such a failure. Probably living in his parent's
basement.

On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 11:40:32 PM UTC-5, Martin Eastburn wrote:

....snip...

Both computers used printers at the end. The program came up and paused
asking for printer service. So they could be turned on set up and made
sure the paper was correct. (single shot of printout) - never changed
that. The 8080 used a daisy wheel printer with 132 column paper. The AT
used an OKI 132 column paper. Both had tractors.


I installed hundreds of Radio Shack TRS-80 word processing systems for a
Fortune 500 company back in the 80's. They all came with a RS Daisy Wheel
printer.

http://oldcomputers.net/pics/TRS-80-II_table.JPG

The systems were so bad that the first thing we had to do was open up
every keyboard and ground the plastic case to the circuit board to try
and eliminate static electricity issues. Even on systems where this was
done, there were situations where you could walk over to the system, tap
the case of the keyboard and the printer would spit out a single character.

That didn't do much more than waste a sheet a paper. In other cases, the
static would corrupt either the 8" floppy that held the WP program or
one of the data floppies that held the user documents.

In the worst cases, we ran a ground wire to the building's sprinkler system
pipes and attached it to one of those velcro grounding bracelets that come
with memory modules. The users were required to put the bracelets on their
wrist before touching the system.

On 12/30/2016 10:03 AM, Jack wrote:


There's a few good things the registry is good at, but it's such a mine
field I don't know what that thing hasn't been replaced yet. The
problem was a configuration file would take 4K on disk because of a 4K
sector size, but only had 16 bytes. It's no big deal now, we've got
tons of 4K sectors but that kind of waste is why modern systems run so
slowly compared to their late-90's counterparts.

Personally, I think millions of new computers have been sold because the
registry became totally F***ed up and people just went out and bought a
new computer.

I think you are probably right on that count but I do not think it is a
fault of Microsoft rather the programs that are added/installed over the
years.





Like I said, Windows used to be really really good. Windows 7 is
fantastic in terms of UI, it's set the standard for many UIs and then
Microsoft screwed everything up completely.

Like I said, OS/2 was the only "windows" that actually worked. It worked
perfect, really, really, really a lot better than any version of
windows. XP, 7 and 10 are OK, but they are still far behind OS/2 in
most everything, including stability and ease of use. Take a look at
your start up files in Services and see what a convoluted mess win is.
It's a wonder this crap even works at all.


I have no issue with Win 7 on my or Win 10 on my wife's computer. Mine
is 6 years old and has been extremely stable as has been for my wife's
since upgrading to 10 in the spring.

Both of ours were custom built by a neighbor and absolutely no bloatware
was installed. IMHO it is all that bloatware, that manufacturers
install with new computers, is the source of problems that pop up.

Before I began adding programs to my computer 6 years ago I pretty only
saw the Window logo screen for a second or two after seeing the mother
board screen and before the desk top appeared. The Windows logo was
animated and I never saw it completely do its thing before the desk top
was visible.
Today boot up time is around 30 seconds to get to the desk top.

OH and keep HP and Norton products off of your computer.