I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender. So even
though it probably will, I would like this thread to not quickly
escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over again too
many times already, HF multitool debate. :-)
After probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong, but
I'm looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it. Plus,
it's so fricken loud!!!
2. The new oscillating tools I've seen have a quick release and that's
very appealing to me.
3. I'm hoping the brand name tools actually perform better. After
using the HF for so long, I think I will able to very quickly determine
if this is the case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like opinions about
oscillating tools from those who have actually used them.
I'm looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool blade release, and
probably NOT battery operated, although I might be able to be convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have adapters or
already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an oscillating
tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so I'm sticking
with those.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/19/2015 11:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an oscillating
tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so I'm sticking
with those.

As you probably know I have a Fein, 15 years, and it still runs like new.

Almost daily on every job site someone reaches for it. It is one of the
rare tools I've let others use, and despite that kind of use, which
usually results in a short lived tool, the only problem I've had is
blades being dulled when I needed it.

Decided to stop that, so, even though it was in the truck, my response
to where is it? "left it at the shop."

Last year my good buddy, and right hand man (he was the biggest
culprit), purchased his own ... a Dremel (MM45?) from HD.

Now, I do leave mine at the shop, and use his.

Good tool, and I've used it enough to make a comparison. Other than a
certain "heft" to the hand, there is no noticeable difference in
function, fit and finish, and ability to do the job. It certainly has
the power.

Obviously longevity, with regard to the Fein, is a question, but so far
so good on withstanding the rigors of the job site.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

-MIKE- wrote:


I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender.

I don't know -Mike-, I might give you a good run for you money on that
honor...

So even
though it probably will, I would like this thread to not quickly
escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over again too
many times already, HF multitool debate. :-)
After probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong,
but I'm looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it. Plus,
it's so fricken loud!!!
2. The new oscillating tools I've seen have a quick release and
that's very appealing to me.
3. I'm hoping the brand name tools actually perform better. After
using the HF for so long, I think I will able to very quickly
determine if this is the case.

My multi-tool (HF) is only a year or two old - I was a later comer to this
tool. I can't speak comparatively to noise and vibration because I've not
used any other brands. What I can speak to is that mine does not run hot at
all. It's a corded model that cost me $15. Never gets even noticeably warm
in my hand. Maybe that's because it take a ton of heat to make me aware of
it, but I just do not notice any heat in mine. Maybe because it's a much
newer model/design?

You get to HF often enough that it might be worth the effort on your part to
pick one up and try it out. You can always return it on your next trip in,
if you don't find the current models to be improved over yours. At $15,
you're not carrying a second mortgage just to try it out.

--

-Mike-

-MIKE- wrote in :

I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender. So even
though it probably will, I would like this thread to not quickly
escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over again too
many times already, HF multitool debate. :-)
After probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong,
but I'm looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it.
Plus, it's so fricken loud!!!
2. The new oscillating tools I've seen have a quick release and
that's very appealing to me.
3. I'm hoping the brand name tools actually perform better. After
using the HF for so long, I think I will able to very quickly
determine if this is the case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like opinions
about oscillating tools from those who have actually used them.
I'm looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool blade release, and
probably NOT battery operated, although I might be able to be
convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have adapters or
already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an oscillating
tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so I'm sticking
with those.



I have the Bosch, asked about it here a couple years ago. It doesn't
have the non-tool blade release, but uses a hex wrench and socket cap
screw. It is MUCH quieter and vibrates the body of the tool MUCH less
than the HF version. I can't speak to cooler or faster, as I usually
don't have either tool on long enough to find out.

I wonder if one of your local stores would be willing to let you take
the tool out of the box and turn it on. Even without cutting, you'll
notice a big difference.

I still have the HF tool, it's down at the club and sometimes gets used
more than the Bosch that replaced it.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

In article , says...

I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender. So even
though it probably will, I would like this thread to not quickly
escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over again too
many times already, HF multitool debate. :-)
After probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong, but
I'm looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it. Plus,
it's so fricken loud!!!
2. The new oscillating tools I've seen have a quick release and that's
very appealing to me.
3. I'm hoping the brand name tools actually perform better. After
using the HF for so long, I think I will able to very quickly determine
if this is the case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like opinions about
oscillating tools from those who have actually used them.
I'm looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool blade release, and
probably NOT battery operated, although I might be able to be convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have adapters or
already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an oscillating
tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so I'm sticking
with those.

Festool _is_ Fein--their oscillating tool is a rebadged Fein Supercut--
the Supercut is Fein's "pro" line and it's actually somewhat
specialized--it's not really any better for general purpose use than the
Multimaster.

And I'm not sure where you're getting six hundred bucks. Home Depot has
the Fein 250 Start for $179 (if you can find one--it's discontinued) and
the 350 Start for $199. Starting price on the Supercut is under $400.

Note that "Start" refers to the accessory bundle--there are three kits
for the Multimaster--"Start", "Systainer", and "Top"--which differ in
accessories. According to the Fein site the "Systainer" version has the
same accessories as the "Top" but comes in a systainer instead of the
purpose-made Fein case. That one is available from Coastal Tool
http://www.coastaltool.com/a/fein/fmm350q-systainer.htm for $269.00
and is the package I'd recommend as the value of the accessories
included is considerably more than the price difference between that and
the "Start". Note that Coastal is a brick-and-mortar store local to me
where I do most of my tool shopping, but also has a thriving online
business.

Personally I'm mostly happy with my Fein (which I got from Coastal)--I
got the last model before they went to the "star" blade mount and wish
it would die so I'd have an excuse to get one with the new mount, but it
just keeps chugging on. Other than the old mount, which slips, it's an
amazing tool that is far far more versatile than I realized when I got
it.

If Fein went out of business and my Fein died, I'd have to do some
research to figure out what to replace it with.

Swingman wrote:
On 9/19/2015 11:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an oscillating
tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so I'm sticking
with those.
I looked at the Jet, which Rockler put on sale once this year at $389. I
though that it made the sub-$200 options look over-priced. YMMV.

Bill



As you probably know I have a Fein, 15 years, and it still runs like new.

Almost daily on every job site someone reaches for it. It is one of
the rare tools I've let others use, and despite that kind of use,
which usually results in a short lived tool, the only problem I've had
is blades being dulled when I needed it.

Decided to stop that, so, even though it was in the truck, my response
to where is it? "left it at the shop."

Last year my good buddy, and right hand man (he was the biggest
culprit), purchased his own ... a Dremel (MM45?) from HD.

Now, I do leave mine at the shop, and use his.

Good tool, and I've used it enough to make a comparison. Other than a
certain "heft" to the hand, there is no noticeable difference in
function, fit and finish, and ability to do the job. It certainly has
the power.

Obviously longevity, with regard to the Fein, is a question, but so
far so good on withstanding the rigors of the job site.

Bill wrote:

I looked at the Jet, which Rockler put on sale once this year at
$389. I though that it made the sub-$200 options look over-priced.
YMMV.

Somewhat confused by what you're trying to say here Bill.

--

-Mike-

On 9/19/15 4:15 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 9/19/2015 11:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a
close second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an
oscillating tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so
I'm sticking with those.

As you probably know I have a Fein, 15 years, and it still runs like
new.

Almost daily on every job site someone reaches for it. It is one of
the rare tools I've let others use, and despite that kind of use,
which usually results in a short lived tool, the only problem I've
had is blades being dulled when I needed it.

Decided to stop that, so, even though it was in the truck, my
response to where is it? "left it at the shop."

Last year my good buddy, and right hand man (he was the biggest
culprit), purchased his own ... a Dremel (MM45?) from HD.

Now, I do leave mine at the shop, and use his.

Good tool, and I've used it enough to make a comparison. Other than a
certain "heft" to the hand, there is no noticeable difference in
function, fit and finish, and ability to do the job. It certainly has
the power.

Obviously longevity, with regard to the Fein, is a question, but so
far so good on withstanding the rigors of the job site.


Thank you! That's exactly the kind of info I'm looking for and no
surprise it came from you. I've been leaning towards the Dremel, so now
I'm leaning a bit more.

I have their Saw-Max and have been very impressed with it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/19/15 4:37 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:


I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender.

I don't know -Mike-, I might give you a good run for you money on
that honor...

So even though it probably will, I would like this thread to not
quickly escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over
again too many times already, HF multitool debate. :-) After
probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong, but
I'm looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it.
Plus, it's so fricken loud!!! 2. The new oscillating tools I've
seen have a quick release and that's very appealing to me. 3. I'm
hoping the brand name tools actually perform better. After using
the HF for so long, I think I will able to very quickly determine
if this is the case.

My multi-tool (HF) is only a year or two old - I was a later comer to
this tool. I can't speak comparatively to noise and vibration
because I've not used any other brands. What I can speak to is that
mine does not run hot at all. It's a corded model that cost me $15.
Never gets even noticeably warm in my hand. Maybe that's because it
take a ton of heat to make me aware of it, but I just do not notice
any heat in mine. Maybe because it's a much newer model/design?

You get to HF often enough that it might be worth the effort on your
part to pick one up and try it out. You can always return it on your
next trip in, if you don't find the current models to be improved
over yours. At $15, you're not carrying a second mortgage just to
try it out.


Since we moved, I'm about 30 minutes from HF and haven't been there in
1-1/2 years. Even though it's only 30 minutes away, the traffic around
that area makes it seem like a day trip. :-)
But I haven't given up on the idea of getting another 15 buck one just
to have around.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/19/15 4:40 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
-MIKE- wrote in :

I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender. So even
though it probably will, I would like this thread to not quickly
escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over again too
many times already, HF multitool debate. :-)
After probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong,
but I'm looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it.
Plus, it's so fricken loud!!!
2. The new oscillating tools I've seen have a quick release and
that's very appealing to me.
3. I'm hoping the brand name tools actually perform better. After
using the HF for so long, I think I will able to very quickly
determine if this is the case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like opinions
about oscillating tools from those who have actually used them.
I'm looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool blade release, and
probably NOT battery operated, although I might be able to be
convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have adapters or
already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an oscillating
tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so I'm sticking
with those.



I have the Bosch, asked about it here a couple years ago. It doesn't
have the non-tool blade release, but uses a hex wrench and socket cap
screw. It is MUCH quieter and vibrates the body of the tool MUCH less
than the HF version. I can't speak to cooler or faster, as I usually
don't have either tool on long enough to find out.

I wonder if one of your local stores would be willing to let you take
the tool out of the box and turn it on. Even without cutting, you'll
notice a big difference.

I still have the HF tool, it's down at the club and sometimes gets used
more than the Bosch that replaced it.

Puckdropper


The Bosch is very high on my list.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/19/15 5:41 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up,
but we'll see if I can though this with any actual information.
:-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender. So
even though it probably will, I would like this thread to not
quickly escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over
again too many times already, HF multitool debate. :-) After
probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong, but
I'm looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it.
Plus, it's so fricken loud!!! 2. The new oscillating tools I've
seen have a quick release and that's very appealing to me. 3. I'm
hoping the brand name tools actually perform better. After using
the HF for so long, I think I will able to very quickly determine
if this is the case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like opinions
about oscillating tools from those who have actually used them. I'm
looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool blade release, and
probably NOT battery operated, although I might be able to be
convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have adapters
or already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a
close second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an
oscillating tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so
I'm sticking with those.

Festool _is_ Fein--their oscillating tool is a rebadged Fein
Supercut-- the Supercut is Fein's "pro" line and it's actually
somewhat specialized--it's not really any better for general purpose
use than the Multimaster.

And I'm not sure where you're getting six hundred bucks. Home Depot
has the Fein 250 Start for $179 (if you can find one--it's
discontinued) and the 350 Start for $199. Starting price on the
Supercut is under $400.

Note that "Start" refers to the accessory bundle--there are three
kits for the Multimaster--"Start", "Systainer", and "Top"--which
differ in accessories. According to the Fein site the "Systainer"
version has the same accessories as the "Top" but comes in a
systainer instead of the purpose-made Fein case. That one is
available from Coastal Tool
http://www.coastaltool.com/a/fein/fmm350q-systainer.htm for
$269.00 and is the package I'd recommend as the value of the
accessories included is considerably more than the price difference
between that and the "Start". Note that Coastal is a
brick-and-mortar store local to me where I do most of my tool
shopping, but also has a thriving online business.

Personally I'm mostly happy with my Fein (which I got from
Coastal)--I got the last model before they went to the "star" blade
mount and wish it would die so I'd have an excuse to get one with the
new mount, but it just keeps chugging on. Other than the old mount,
which slips, it's an amazing tool that is far far more versatile than
I realized when I got it.

If Fein went out of business and my Fein died, I'd have to do some
research to figure out what to replace it with.



I threw $600 out there because that's what the Festool kit at
Woodcraft was going for when I stopped in. If I'm willing to throw $150
at the Bosch, I will have to take a closer look at the Fein starter kit
for $179.

Thanks for the info.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 11:52:05 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender. So even
though it probably will, I would like this thread to not quickly
escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over again too
many times already, HF multitool debate. :-)
After probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong, but
I'm looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it. Plus,
it's so fricken loud!!!
2. The new oscillating tools I've seen have a quick release and that's
very appealing to me.
3. I'm hoping the brand name tools actually perform better. After
using the HF for so long, I think I will able to very quickly determine
if this is the case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like opinions about
oscillating tools from those who have actually used them.
I'm looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool blade release, and
probably NOT battery operated, although I might be able to be convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have adapters or
already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an oscillating
tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so I'm sticking
with those.


Of course, nothing but Festool! ;-)

Now that we got that out of the way... ;-)
I own a Dremel corded and a Bosch cordless oscillating saw. Of the
two, I use the cordless one at least 10:1 over the corded saw.

I looked at the Fein a year or so ago (they had a demo at Woodcraft)
and was impressed. The price wasn't all that bad, anymore, either. If
I were buying again, I'd probably buy the Fein instead of the Dremmel
but I'd still be using the Bosch ten times as often as the Fein.

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

I looked at the Jet, which Rockler put on sale once this year at
$389. I though that it made the sub-$200 options look over-priced.
YMMV.
Somewhat confused by what you're trying to say here Bill.
Mike, I meant I would recommend someone take a look at it before ruling
it out because of the price. It appears to offer quite a bit of "bang
for the buck". The sub-$200 look like "mere appliances" in
comparison. That said, I haven't contributed anything to the Festool
thread...we all have our limitations! : )

Bill

In article ,
says...

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

I looked at the Jet, which Rockler put on sale once this year at
$389. I though that it made the sub-$200 options look over-priced.
YMMV.
Somewhat confused by what you're trying to say here Bill.
Mike, I meant I would recommend someone take a look at it before ruling
it out because of the price. It appears to offer quite a bit of "bang
for the buck". The sub-$200 look like "mere appliances" in
comparison. That said, I haven't contributed anything to the Festool
thread...we all have our limitations! : )

Bill, for $389 you can just buy the damn Festool and be done with it (it
says "Fein Supercut" on it but it's the same tool and takes all the same
accessories).

There just isn't any more "bang" to be had in this kind of tool for any
amount of bucks.

But I don't see an oscillating tool from Jet on either the Rockler or
the Jet site.

Here's the kind of tool we're talking about
http://www.coastaltool.com/a/fein/fmm350q-systainer.htm

-MIKE- wrote:
I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender. So even
though it probably will, I would like this thread to not quickly
escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over again too
many times already, HF multitool debate. :-)
After probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong, but
I'm looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it. Plus,
it's so fricken loud!!!
2. The new oscillating tools I've seen have a quick release and that's
very appealing to me.
3. I'm hoping the brand name tools actually perform better. After
using the HF for so long, I think I will able to very quickly determine
if this is the case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like opinions about
oscillating tools from those who have actually used them.
I'm looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool blade release, and
probably NOT battery operated, although I might be able to be convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have adapters or
already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an oscillating
tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so I'm sticking
with those.



Ease of use and setup makes a tool more likely to be used. I have a Fein
and truly wish it had the quick release and notched index blade setup. I
find that the easier the tool is to setup the more I use it. Mine is the
older design that requires the odd hex wrench to replace attachments and ir
adjust attachments. Other than that it operated very smoothly.

On 9/19/2015 11:11 PM, krw wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 11:52:05 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

[snip]

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an oscillating
tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so I'm sticking
with those.


Of course, nothing but Festool! ;-)

Now that we got that out of the way... ;-)
I own a Dremel corded and a Bosch cordless oscillating saw. Of the
two, I use the cordless one at least 10:1 over the corded saw.

I looked at the Fein a year or so ago (they had a demo at Woodcraft)
and was impressed. The price wasn't all that bad, anymore, either. If
I were buying again, I'd probably buy the Fein instead of the Dremmel
but I'd still be using the Bosch ten times as often as the Fein.

A Huge +1 on the Bosch Cordless. It is my first and only (had it about
6 years now, maybe a bit more) oscillating multi-tool.

My only complaint is that I waited so long to buy it - or any multi-tool.

I've used it, abused it, and have even been amused (by all the things I
can do with it to save me time and energy) by it.

As I have no basis for comparison I would only say that if it crapped
out or was stolen tomorrow, I cannot think of any reason to look further
than the Bosch. It does everything it claims to do, everything I want
it to do (and I'm constantly finding new uses for it), and does it well.

Double +1 for ANY brand CORDLESS multi-tool. You aren't building a
house with this thing, you're either repairing, remodeling or putting a
finishing touch on something. With two batteries available, I've never
had downtime waiting for a recharge and can count on one hand the number
of times I needed a recharge to finish a job.

On 9/19/2015 5:15 PM, Swingman wrote:

Last year my good buddy, and right hand man (he was the biggest
culprit), purchased his own ... a Dremel (MM45?) from HD.

Now, I do leave mine at the shop, and use his.

Good tool, and I've used it enough to make a comparison. Other than a
certain "heft" to the hand, there is no noticeable difference in
function, fit and finish, and ability to do the job. It certainly has
the power.

I have the Dremel. It's proved useful, very useful actually, but I only
need it occasionally. I'm not a contractor.

I'm surprised to hear that it is comparable in performance to the Fein.
I assumed the Fein had more power. One thing I've noticed is that it
gets pretty hot. Compounding that, the vents are very close to where my
fingers are. In fact, in certain operations, I have found myself
accidentally covering some of the vents when I try to grip the tool
closer to the business end, for more control. Perhaps there was no way
around that, design-wise.

I'm not crazy about the blade changing system. I wish the screw was a
little longer, less likely to come out when I loosen it enough to change
the blade. I'm also wary of overtightening the screw, as the mechanism
doesn't feel that robust. Possibly as a result of this, it occasionally
works its way loose during use. Maybe if I used it often enough, I'd get
the "feel" for the correct torque.

Having sai all that, it's definitely a tool that can transform certain
tasks from "How the hell am I going to do this?" into "Hey, that was easy".

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

In article ,
says...

On 9/19/2015 11:11 PM, krw wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 11:52:05 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

[snip]

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an oscillating
tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so I'm sticking
with those.


Of course, nothing but Festool! ;-)

Now that we got that out of the way... ;-)
I own a Dremel corded and a Bosch cordless oscillating saw. Of the
two, I use the cordless one at least 10:1 over the corded saw.

I looked at the Fein a year or so ago (they had a demo at Woodcraft)
and was impressed. The price wasn't all that bad, anymore, either. If
I were buying again, I'd probably buy the Fein instead of the Dremmel
but I'd still be using the Bosch ten times as often as the Fein.

A Huge +1 on the Bosch Cordless. It is my first and only (had it about
6 years now, maybe a bit more) oscillating multi-tool.

My only complaint is that I waited so long to buy it - or any multi-tool.

I've used it, abused it, and have even been amused (by all the things I
can do with it to save me time and energy) by it.

As I have no basis for comparison I would only say that if it crapped
out or was stolen tomorrow, I cannot think of any reason to look further
than the Bosch. It does everything it claims to do, everything I want
it to do (and I'm constantly finding new uses for it), and does it well.

Double +1 for ANY brand CORDLESS multi-tool. You aren't building a
house with this thing, you're either repairing, remodeling or putting a
finishing touch on something. With two batteries available, I've never
had downtime waiting for a recharge and can count on one hand the number
of times I needed a recharge to finish a job.

I have to admit that a cordless is tempting and Fein doesn't seem to be
making theirs anymore. My Fein has a 15 foot cord that is a pain to
wrap up and stuff in the case when I'm done for the day. Sometimes I'm
tempted to cut it shorter.

On 9/20/2015 10:06 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
My Fein has a 15 foot cord that is a pain to
wrap up and stuff in the case when I'm done for the day. Sometimes I'm
tempted to cut it shorter.

That's one of the things I like best about my Fein on a job site. In the
shop, not so much.

What you make on the bananas, you lose on the grapes...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 9/20/2015 10:39 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I'm surprised to hear that it is comparable in performance to the Fein.

I now see that Dremel makes several models. Mine was an early one
(6300), with a less powerful motor.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 9/19/15 11:11 PM, krw wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 11:52:05 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up,
but we'll see if I can though this with any actual information.
:-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender. So
even though it probably will, I would like this thread to not
quickly escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over
again too many times already, HF multitool debate. :-) After
probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong, but
I'm looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it.
Plus, it's so fricken loud!!! 2. The new oscillating tools I've
seen have a quick release and that's very appealing to me. 3. I'm
hoping the brand name tools actually perform better. After using
the HF for so long, I think I will able to very quickly determine
if this is the case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like opinions
about oscillating tools from those who have actually used them. I'm
looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool blade release, and
probably NOT battery operated, although I might be able to be
convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have adapters
or already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a
close second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an
oscillating tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so
I'm sticking with those.


Of course, nothing but Festool! ;-)

Now that we got that out of the way... ;-) I own a Dremel corded and
a Bosch cordless oscillating saw. Of the two, I use the cordless one
at least 10:1 over the corded saw.

I looked at the Fein a year or so ago (they had a demo at Woodcraft)
and was impressed. The price wasn't all that bad, anymore, either.
If I were buying again, I'd probably buy the Fein instead of the
Dremmel but I'd still be using the Bosch ten times as often as the
Fein.


How fast do the batteries charge on the Bosch and is there a notable
difference in power between the corded and cordless?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/20/15 8:31 AM, Leon wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender. So even
though it probably will, I would like this thread to not quickly
escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over again too
many times already, HF multitool debate. :-)
After probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong, but
I'm looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it. Plus,
it's so fricken loud!!!
2. The new oscillating tools I've seen have a quick release and that's
very appealing to me.
3. I'm hoping the brand name tools actually perform better. After
using the HF for so long, I think I will able to very quickly determine
if this is the case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like opinions about
oscillating tools from those who have actually used them.
I'm looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool blade release, and
probably NOT battery operated, although I might be able to be convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have adapters or
already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an oscillating
tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so I'm sticking
with those.



Ease of use and setup makes a tool more likely to be used. I have a Fein
and truly wish it had the quick release and notched index blade setup. I
find that the easier the tool is to setup the more I use it. Mine is the
older design that requires the odd hex wrench to replace attachments and ir
adjust attachments. Other than that it operated very smoothly.


I'm not only in the "ease of setup and use" boat with you, I'm driving
the ship!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/20/15 9:31 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 9/19/2015 11:11 PM, krw wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 11:52:05 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

[snip]

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an oscillating
tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so I'm sticking
with those.


Of course, nothing but Festool! ;-)

Now that we got that out of the way... ;-)
I own a Dremel corded and a Bosch cordless oscillating saw. Of the
two, I use the cordless one at least 10:1 over the corded saw.

I looked at the Fein a year or so ago (they had a demo at Woodcraft)
and was impressed. The price wasn't all that bad, anymore, either. If
I were buying again, I'd probably buy the Fein instead of the Dremmel
but I'd still be using the Bosch ten times as often as the Fein.

A Huge +1 on the Bosch Cordless. It is my first and only (had it about
6 years now, maybe a bit more) oscillating multi-tool.

My only complaint is that I waited so long to buy it - or any multi-tool.

I've used it, abused it, and have even been amused (by all the things I
can do with it to save me time and energy) by it.

As I have no basis for comparison I would only say that if it crapped
out or was stolen tomorrow, I cannot think of any reason to look further
than the Bosch. It does everything it claims to do, everything I want
it to do (and I'm constantly finding new uses for it), and does it well.

Double +1 for ANY brand CORDLESS multi-tool. You aren't building a
house with this thing, you're either repairing, remodeling or putting a
finishing touch on something. With two batteries available, I've never
had downtime waiting for a recharge and can count on one hand the number
of times I needed a recharge to finish a job.


Good info. Thanks!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 10:49:04 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 9/19/15 11:11 PM, krw wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 11:52:05 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up,
but we'll see if I can though this with any actual information.
:-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender. So
even though it probably will, I would like this thread to not
quickly escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over
again too many times already, HF multitool debate. :-) After
probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong, but
I'm looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it.
Plus, it's so fricken loud!!! 2. The new oscillating tools I've
seen have a quick release and that's very appealing to me. 3. I'm
hoping the brand name tools actually perform better. After using
the HF for so long, I think I will able to very quickly determine
if this is the case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like opinions
about oscillating tools from those who have actually used them. I'm
looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool blade release, and
probably NOT battery operated, although I might be able to be
convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have adapters
or already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a
close second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an
oscillating tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so
I'm sticking with those.


Of course, nothing but Festool! ;-)

Now that we got that out of the way... ;-) I own a Dremel corded and
a Bosch cordless oscillating saw. Of the two, I use the cordless one
at least 10:1 over the corded saw.

I looked at the Fein a year or so ago (they had a demo at Woodcraft)
and was impressed. The price wasn't all that bad, anymore, either.
If I were buying again, I'd probably buy the Fein instead of the
Dremmel but I'd still be using the Bosch ten times as often as the
Fein.


How fast do the batteries charge on the Bosch and is there a notable
difference in power between the corded and cordless?

Less than an hour. I have a bunch of batteries (I also have the 12V
drill, driver, and Impactor) so that's never a problem for me (so I
don't watch closely). I'm not a contractor so I don't use it 8hrs a
day, so recharging isn't a major concern. I rarely have to change
batteries in the middle of any job with any of my tools.

I don't notice a power difference between the Bosch and Dremmel. The
Fein I tried (during a store demo) was a little easier on the hands, I
think, though.

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 11:02:32 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 9/20/15 8:31 AM, Leon wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender. So even
though it probably will, I would like this thread to not quickly
escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over again too
many times already, HF multitool debate. :-)
After probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong, but
I'm looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it. Plus,
it's so fricken loud!!!
2. The new oscillating tools I've seen have a quick release and that's
very appealing to me.
3. I'm hoping the brand name tools actually perform better. After
using the HF for so long, I think I will able to very quickly determine
if this is the case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like opinions about
oscillating tools from those who have actually used them.
I'm looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool blade release, and
probably NOT battery operated, although I might be able to be convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have adapters or
already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an oscillating
tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so I'm sticking
with those.



Ease of use and setup makes a tool more likely to be used. I have a Fein
and truly wish it had the quick release and notched index blade setup. I
find that the easier the tool is to setup the more I use it. Mine is the
older design that requires the odd hex wrench to replace attachments and ir
adjust attachments. Other than that it operated very smoothly.


I'm not only in the "ease of setup and use" boat with you, I'm driving
the ship!

Which is the whole reason behind cordless tools. The Bosch
oscillating tool uses a hex screw to hold on the blade - its weakness.

On 9/20/2015 10:49 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 9/19/15 11:11 PM, krw wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 11:52:05 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up,

[snip]

I looked at the Fein a year or so ago (they had a demo at Woodcraft)
and was impressed. The price wasn't all that bad, anymore, either.
If I were buying again, I'd probably buy the Fein instead of the
Dremmel but I'd still be using the Bosch ten times as often as the
Fein.


How fast do the batteries charge on the Bosch and is there a notable
difference in power between the corded and cordless?

As previously stated, I have only owned the one Bosch cordless so I
cannot compare apples and corded apples g

As for the recharge time, it's fairly quick but unless I'm running it
under heavy load constantly - which is rarely the case - I don't need to
recharge it while working a project. As I said, I've NEVER had down
time due to waiting around for a recharge. YMMV of course depending on
usage.

On 9/20/2015 11:16 AM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 11:02:32 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 9/20/15 8:31 AM, Leon wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well


[snip]


Ease of use and setup makes a tool more likely to be used. I have a Fein
and truly wish it had the quick release and notched index blade setup. I
find that the easier the tool is to setup the more I use it. Mine is the
older design that requires the odd hex wrench to replace attachments and ir
adjust attachments. Other than that it operated very smoothly.


I'm not only in the "ease of setup and use" boat with you, I'm driving
the ship!

Which is the whole reason behind cordless tools. The Bosch
oscillating tool uses a hex screw to hold on the blade - its weakness.

Weakness as in quick change of blade or have you run into another
problem with it?

Admittedly, I'd probably like a quick change option on it but as someone
else mentioned in passing, "what you make on bananas, you lose on
grapes" (or something very similar). Sometimes the quick change
artistry leaves much to be desired in terms of strength and durability.
At least when I torque down the blade on my Bosch, I know it's going
to hold solid.

On 9/20/15 11:16 AM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 11:02:32 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 9/20/15 8:31 AM, Leon wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened
up, but we'll see if I can though this with any actual
information. :-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is
well documented in here that I have been its staunchest
defender. So even though it probably will, I would like this
thread to not quickly escalate into the same, tired, old,
rehashed over and over again too many times already, HF
multitool debate. :-) After probably eight years with the
thing, it's still going strong, but I'm looking to upgrade for
a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on
it. Plus, it's so fricken loud!!! 2. The new oscillating
tools I've seen have a quick release and that's very appealing
to me. 3. I'm hoping the brand name tools actually perform
better. After using the HF for so long, I think I will able to
very quickly determine if this is the case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like
opinions about oscillating tools from those who have actually
used them. I'm looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool
blade release, and probably NOT battery operated, although I
might be able to be convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have
adapters or already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a
close second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on
an oscillating tool. All the other brands have options under
$150, so I'm sticking with those.



Ease of use and setup makes a tool more likely to be used. I
have a Fein and truly wish it had the quick release and notched
index blade setup. I find that the easier the tool is to setup
the more I use it. Mine is the older design that requires the odd
hex wrench to replace attachments and ir adjust attachments.
Other than that it operated very smoothly.


I'm not only in the "ease of setup and use" boat with you, I'm
driving the ship!

Which is the whole reason behind cordless tools. The Bosch
oscillating tool uses a hex screw to hold on the blade - its
weakness.


Now you've done it. Crap, that thing uses the batteries I already have
for my Bosch drill. BTW, the new ones have a tool-less, instant change
mechanism.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/19/2015 11:47 PM, Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

I looked at the Jet, which Rockler put on sale once this year at
$389. I though that it made the sub-$200 options look over-priced.
YMMV.
Somewhat confused by what you're trying to say here Bill.
Mike, I meant I would recommend someone take a look at it before ruling
it out because of the price. It appears to offer quite a bit of "bang
for the buck". The sub-$200 look like "mere appliances" in comparison.




That said, I haven't contributed anything to the Festool thread...we all
have our limitations! : )


Ah come on Bill, I think I remember one of your threads going on and on
about whether to start a screw with your fingers or a screw driver. ;~)

Just kidding.

On 9/20/2015 11:16 AM, krw wrote:


Ease of use and setup makes a tool more likely to be used. I have a Fein
and truly wish it had the quick release and notched index blade setup. I
find that the easier the tool is to setup the more I use it. Mine is the
older design that requires the odd hex wrench to replace attachments and ir
adjust attachments. Other than that it operated very smoothly.


I'm not only in the "ease of setup and use" boat with you, I'm driving
the ship!

Which is the whole reason behind cordless tools. The Bosch
oscillating tool uses a hex screw to hold on the blade - its weakness.


I think cordless makes a lot of sense for tools with regular use and
certainly they are more convenient.

I prefer corded for a tool that does not see a lot of action.

In the mid 80's my wife gave me a right angle 1/4" reversible Makita
cordless drill. It did not see a lot of use and therefore after it was
3~4 years old the battery always had to be recharged before use.

The tool that gets about the same amount of use is my corded Fein
Multimaster. I'm certainly glad it is corded and only for that reason.

Now let me backpedal.

I build a lot. I use my Domino extensively. I use the Domino to
reinforce the rabbit joints on drawers with a minimum of 2 on each
corner of each drawer. Day before yesterday I plunge cut 48 mortises
after gluing up the drawers to reinforce the joints. The plunge with
the 5mm bit is limited to less than the length of the 5mm domino tenon.

If I do not shorten the tenons before hammering them in they have to be
cut after the fact.

Doing this with the TS is possible but you get tenons ends flying out
like bullets all over the shop. You have limited capacity of doing this
with the BS. This leaves cutting with a Japanese saw which takes way
too long. You can sand them down but shortening half an inch of tenon
tends to tear up the sand paper quickly.

The solution that I have repeated is to use my 12" disk sander to
quickly shorten the length of the tenons before hammering them in to the
mortises. Still this is imprecise and you often end up with a few that
stand tall and I tear my disk sand paper.

Given all the steps start to finish to reinforce drawer joints with
Domino tenons I was considering making all future drawers with box
joints or DT's. These are more trouble than plain old rabbit joints but
probably faster and less trouble than using the Domino tenons, consider
all the steps involved.

Then, day before yesterday I thought about my Fein multimeter.
On this time with the 48 tenons on the 6 drawers I put them in full
length and there fore eliminated having to shorten them on the disk
sander and trimmed all of them just a hair proud of flush after
hammering them in.

Daaaaamn, 2~3 seconds per tenon and very little cleanup sanding at all.

It only took me about 115 drawers to figure that out. But who is counting?

Rambling on, maybe I'll sell my Fein Multimaster and get a cordless one
with the tool-less feature. Naaaaaaa. ;~)

The Multimaster has certainly been a life saver and that can pay for the
tool with only a few times of use but now I will no longer be sanding
those tenons to length.

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 11:31:49 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 11:16 AM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 11:02:32 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 9/20/15 8:31 AM, Leon wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well


[snip]


Ease of use and setup makes a tool more likely to be used. I have a Fein
and truly wish it had the quick release and notched index blade setup. I
find that the easier the tool is to setup the more I use it. Mine is the
older design that requires the odd hex wrench to replace attachments and ir
adjust attachments. Other than that it operated very smoothly.


I'm not only in the "ease of setup and use" boat with you, I'm driving
the ship!

Which is the whole reason behind cordless tools. The Bosch
oscillating tool uses a hex screw to hold on the blade - its weakness.

Weakness as in quick change of blade or have you run into another
problem with it?

Just the blade change. It's hex key and there is no place on the tool
to store it. It's just a minor PITA.

Admittedly, I'd probably like a quick change option on it but as someone
else mentioned in passing, "what you make on bananas, you lose on
grapes" (or something very similar). Sometimes the quick change
artistry leaves much to be desired in terms of strength and durability.
At least when I torque down the blade on my Bosch, I know it's going
to hold solid.

Sure. The other issue is the blades themselves. Some are not
compatible with the Bosch, though that doesn't seem to be as much of a
problem any more.

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 11:32:27 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 9/20/15 11:16 AM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 11:02:32 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 9/20/15 8:31 AM, Leon wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened
up, but we'll see if I can though this with any actual
information. :-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is
well documented in here that I have been its staunchest
defender. So even though it probably will, I would like this
thread to not quickly escalate into the same, tired, old,
rehashed over and over again too many times already, HF
multitool debate. :-) After probably eight years with the
thing, it's still going strong, but I'm looking to upgrade for
a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on
it. Plus, it's so fricken loud!!! 2. The new oscillating
tools I've seen have a quick release and that's very appealing
to me. 3. I'm hoping the brand name tools actually perform
better. After using the HF for so long, I think I will able to
very quickly determine if this is the case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like
opinions about oscillating tools from those who have actually
used them. I'm looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool
blade release, and probably NOT battery operated, although I
might be able to be convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have
adapters or already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a
close second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on
an oscillating tool. All the other brands have options under
$150, so I'm sticking with those.



Ease of use and setup makes a tool more likely to be used. I
have a Fein and truly wish it had the quick release and notched
index blade setup. I find that the easier the tool is to setup
the more I use it. Mine is the older design that requires the odd
hex wrench to replace attachments and ir adjust attachments.
Other than that it operated very smoothly.


I'm not only in the "ease of setup and use" boat with you, I'm
driving the ship!

Which is the whole reason behind cordless tools. The Bosch
oscillating tool uses a hex screw to hold on the blade - its
weakness.


Now you've done it. Crap, that thing uses the batteries I already have
for my Bosch drill. BTW, the new ones have a tool-less, instant change
mechanism.

I didn't know that. Thanks! I guess there is nothing that says that
a tool can't be upgraded in five years.

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:07:56 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 11:16 AM, krw wrote:


Ease of use and setup makes a tool more likely to be used. I have a Fein
and truly wish it had the quick release and notched index blade setup. I
find that the easier the tool is to setup the more I use it. Mine is the
older design that requires the odd hex wrench to replace attachments and ir
adjust attachments. Other than that it operated very smoothly.


I'm not only in the "ease of setup and use" boat with you, I'm driving
the ship!

Which is the whole reason behind cordless tools. The Bosch
oscillating tool uses a hex screw to hold on the blade - its weakness.


I think cordless makes a lot of sense for tools with regular use and
certainly they are more convenient.

I prefer corded for a tool that does not see a lot of action.

Why? If you're worried about battery self-discharge, LiIon all but
solved that problem. They have a half-life of something like two
years. Multiple tools using the same batteries also mitigate any such
problems.

In the mid 80's my wife gave me a right angle 1/4" reversible Makita
cordless drill. It did not see a lot of use and therefore after it was
3~4 years old the battery always had to be recharged before use.

I probably have the same drill. It wasn't a huge issue because I also
had a drill and 3-3/8" circular saw using the same batteries. The
batteries didn't last all that long and were expensive, so replaced
the drill. If I need the right-angle drill or cut off saw, I'll need
to buy new batteries anyway. ...and the next time. ...and the next.

The tool that gets about the same amount of use is my corded Fein
Multimaster. I'm certainly glad it is corded and only for that reason.

But LiIon batteries don't have a rapid discharge. Even if you don't
use it for a year, it'll still have something more than half charge.

Now let me backpedal.

I build a lot. I use my Domino extensively. I use the Domino to
reinforce the rabbit joints on drawers with a minimum of 2 on each
corner of each drawer. Day before yesterday I plunge cut 48 mortises
after gluing up the drawers to reinforce the joints. The plunge with
the 5mm bit is limited to less than the length of the 5mm domino tenon.

If I do not shorten the tenons before hammering them in they have to be
cut after the fact.

Doing this with the TS is possible but you get tenons ends flying out
like bullets all over the shop. You have limited capacity of doing this
with the BS. This leaves cutting with a Japanese saw which takes way
too long. You can sand them down but shortening half an inch of tenon
tends to tear up the sand paper quickly.

The solution that I have repeated is to use my 12" disk sander to
quickly shorten the length of the tenons before hammering them in to the
mortises. Still this is imprecise and you often end up with a few that
stand tall and I tear my disk sand paper.

Given all the steps start to finish to reinforce drawer joints with
Domino tenons I was considering making all future drawers with box
joints or DT's. These are more trouble than plain old rabbit joints but
probably faster and less trouble than using the Domino tenons, consider
all the steps involved.

Then, day before yesterday I thought about my Fein multimeter.
On this time with the 48 tenons on the 6 drawers I put them in full
length and there fore eliminated having to shorten them on the disk
sander and trimmed all of them just a hair proud of flush after
hammering them in.

Daaaaamn, 2~3 seconds per tenon and very little cleanup sanding at all.

It only took me about 115 drawers to figure that out. But who is counting?

Rambling on, maybe I'll sell my Fein Multimaster and get a cordless one
with the tool-less feature. Naaaaaaa. ;~)

;-)

For that use, I probably wouldn't mind a corded tool. All of the work
is being done in the shop and there is already plenty of power around.
Multi-tools tend to be used all over the house, though. It's nice to
not have to haul extension cords around. For many jobs, hauling
everything out and putting it away takes half the time.

Last week I was putting fold-down extensions on my down spouts. I
needed to trim about 10" off the downspouts, add the splash blocks,
and rivet the mess back together. Hauling an extension cord around
the house would have been a PITA. I have cordless drills for this
reason, the cordless multi-tool is a perfect match. I also have a
small circular saw, for the same reason. I'll probably get a cordless
saber or reciprocating saw one of these days, too.

The Multimaster has certainly been a life saver and that can pay for the
tool with only a few times of use but now I will no longer be sanding
those tenons to length.

How about cutting them to length before use?

J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

I looked at the Jet, which Rockler put on sale once this year at
$389. I though that it made the sub-$200 options look over-priced.
YMMV.
Somewhat confused by what you're trying to say here Bill.
Mike, I meant I would recommend someone take a look at it before ruling
it out because of the price. It appears to offer quite a bit of "bang
for the buck". The sub-$200 look like "mere appliances" in
comparison. That said, I haven't contributed anything to the Festool
thread...we all have our limitations! : )
Bill, for $389 you can just buy the damn Festool and be done with it (it
says "Fein Supercut" on it but it's the same tool and takes all the same
accessories).

There just isn't any more "bang" to be had in this kind of tool for any
amount of bucks.

But I don't see an oscillating tool from Jet on either the Rockler or
the Jet site.

Here's the kind of tool we're talking about
http://www.coastaltool.com/a/fein/fmm350q-systainer.htm


My bad (sorry). I thought you were talking about an *oscillating
sander*. I have a variable speed "oscillating tool" from Menards which
cost me about $35, I think. I have found it handy in trimming shims and
the bottoms of door frames.

Bill wrote:

My bad (sorry). I thought you were talking about an *oscillating
sander*. I have a variable speed "oscillating tool" from Menards
which cost me about $35, I think. I have found it handy in trimming
shims and the bottoms of door frames.

Just keep using it Bill - you will find that the list of useful purposes for
these tools just magically keeps growing. Makes ya wonder why it took so
long for them to develop it.

--

-Mike-

On 9/20/2015 5:14 PM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:07:56 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 11:16 AM, krw wrote:


Ease of use and setup makes a tool more likely to be used. I have a Fein
and truly wish it had the quick release and notched index blade setup. I
find that the easier the tool is to setup the more I use it. Mine is the
older design that requires the odd hex wrench to replace attachments and ir
adjust attachments. Other than that it operated very smoothly.


I'm not only in the "ease of setup and use" boat with you, I'm driving
the ship!

Which is the whole reason behind cordless tools. The Bosch
oscillating tool uses a hex screw to hold on the blade - its weakness.


I think cordless makes a lot of sense for tools with regular use and
certainly they are more convenient.

I prefer corded for a tool that does not see a lot of action.

Why? If you're worried about battery self-discharge, LiIon all but
solved that problem. They have a half-life of something like two
years. Multiple tools using the same batteries also mitigate any such
problems.

In the mid 80's my wife gave me a right angle 1/4" reversible Makita
cordless drill. It did not see a lot of use and therefore after it was
3~4 years old the battery always had to be recharged before use.

I probably have the same drill. It wasn't a huge issue because I also
had a drill and 3-3/8" circular saw using the same batteries. The
batteries didn't last all that long and were expensive, so replaced
the drill. If I need the right-angle drill or cut off saw, I'll need
to buy new batteries anyway. ...and the next time. ...and the next.

The tool that gets about the same amount of use is my corded Fein
Multimaster. I'm certainly glad it is corded and only for that reason.

But LiIon batteries don't have a rapid discharge. Even if you don't
use it for a year, it'll still have something more than half charge.

Understood but I have a Bosch impact that came with 2 Li-Ion batteries.
Probably 7 years old. Both batteries were toast a couple of months
ago so I bought 1 OEM replacement. I got the Bosch when I already had a
Makita impact that was on my second set of batteries.
anyway I seldom use the Bosch, 18 volt. I preferred the 12 volt Makita.
Some how or another I must have won the Bosch as there was no explanation.

The Festool Li-Ion batteries are still going strong and they are almost
4 years old.


Now let me backpedal.

I build a lot. I use my Domino extensively. I use the Domino to
reinforce the rabbit joints on drawers with a minimum of 2 on each
corner of each drawer. Day before yesterday I plunge cut 48 mortises
after gluing up the drawers to reinforce the joints. The plunge with
the 5mm bit is limited to less than the length of the 5mm domino tenon.

If I do not shorten the tenons before hammering them in they have to be
cut after the fact.

Doing this with the TS is possible but you get tenons ends flying out
like bullets all over the shop. You have limited capacity of doing this
with the BS. This leaves cutting with a Japanese saw which takes way
too long. You can sand them down but shortening half an inch of tenon
tends to tear up the sand paper quickly.

The solution that I have repeated is to use my 12" disk sander to
quickly shorten the length of the tenons before hammering them in to the
mortises. Still this is imprecise and you often end up with a few that
stand tall and I tear my disk sand paper.

Given all the steps start to finish to reinforce drawer joints with
Domino tenons I was considering making all future drawers with box
joints or DT's. These are more trouble than plain old rabbit joints but
probably faster and less trouble than using the Domino tenons, consider
all the steps involved.

Then, day before yesterday I thought about my Fein multimeter.
On this time with the 48 tenons on the 6 drawers I put them in full
length and there fore eliminated having to shorten them on the disk
sander and trimmed all of them just a hair proud of flush after
hammering them in.

Daaaaamn, 2~3 seconds per tenon and very little cleanup sanding at all.

It only took me about 115 drawers to figure that out. But who is counting?

Rambling on, maybe I'll sell my Fein Multimaster and get a cordless one
with the tool-less feature. Naaaaaaa. ;~)

;-)

For that use, I probably wouldn't mind a corded tool. All of the work
is being done in the shop and there is already plenty of power around.
Multi-tools tend to be used all over the house, though. It's nice to
not have to haul extension cords around. For many jobs, hauling
everything out and putting it away takes half the time.

Last week I was putting fold-down extensions on my down spouts. I
needed to trim about 10" off the downspouts, add the splash blocks,
and rivet the mess back together. Hauling an extension cord around
the house would have been a PITA. I have cordless drills for this
reason, the cordless multi-tool is a perfect match. I also have a
small circular saw, for the same reason. I'll probably get a cordless
saber or reciprocating saw one of these days, too.

The Multimaster has certainly been a life saver and that can pay for the
tool with only a few times of use but now I will no longer be sanding
those tenons to length.

How about cutting them to length before use?


Tried that too, but the TS shot those too and I was not comfortable with
repeated cutting something about 1 1/4" long and 3/16 thick and 3/4 wide
down to 5/8" in length and that would be a set up for repeated cuts and
really in the long run not IMHO faster than 2~3 seconds it takes to cut
them with the Fein after being glued in place.

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 19:49:57 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 5:14 PM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:07:56 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 11:16 AM, krw wrote:


Ease of use and setup makes a tool more likely to be used. I have a Fein
and truly wish it had the quick release and notched index blade setup. I
find that the easier the tool is to setup the more I use it. Mine is the
older design that requires the odd hex wrench to replace attachments and ir
adjust attachments. Other than that it operated very smoothly.


I'm not only in the "ease of setup and use" boat with you, I'm driving
the ship!

Which is the whole reason behind cordless tools. The Bosch
oscillating tool uses a hex screw to hold on the blade - its weakness.


I think cordless makes a lot of sense for tools with regular use and
certainly they are more convenient.

I prefer corded for a tool that does not see a lot of action.

Why? If you're worried about battery self-discharge, LiIon all but
solved that problem. They have a half-life of something like two
years. Multiple tools using the same batteries also mitigate any such
problems.

In the mid 80's my wife gave me a right angle 1/4" reversible Makita
cordless drill. It did not see a lot of use and therefore after it was
3~4 years old the battery always had to be recharged before use.

I probably have the same drill. It wasn't a huge issue because I also
had a drill and 3-3/8" circular saw using the same batteries. The
batteries didn't last all that long and were expensive, so replaced
the drill. If I need the right-angle drill or cut off saw, I'll need
to buy new batteries anyway. ...and the next time. ...and the next.

The tool that gets about the same amount of use is my corded Fein
Multimaster. I'm certainly glad it is corded and only for that reason.

But LiIon batteries don't have a rapid discharge. Even if you don't
use it for a year, it'll still have something more than half charge.

Understood but I have a Bosch impact that came with 2 Li-Ion batteries.
Probably 7 years old. Both batteries were toast a couple of months
ago so I bought 1 OEM replacement. I got the Bosch when I already had a
Makita impact that was on my second set of batteries.
anyway I seldom use the Bosch, 18 volt. I preferred the 12 volt Makita.
Some how or another I must have won the Bosch as there was no explanation.

I have all three Bosch 12V tools (drill, driver, and Impactor, though
no batteries came with the drivers) and picked up five or six more,
cheap, when the BORG stopped selling Bosch. One or two died very
early so that leaves eight or so. It's been at least four years, so
they've held up well.

The Festool Li-Ion batteries are still going strong and they are almost
4 years old.

LiIon batteries last a long time. They're more limited by charge
cycles than time.


Now let me backpedal.

I build a lot. I use my Domino extensively. I use the Domino to
reinforce the rabbit joints on drawers with a minimum of 2 on each
corner of each drawer. Day before yesterday I plunge cut 48 mortises
after gluing up the drawers to reinforce the joints. The plunge with
the 5mm bit is limited to less than the length of the 5mm domino tenon.

If I do not shorten the tenons before hammering them in they have to be
cut after the fact.

Doing this with the TS is possible but you get tenons ends flying out
like bullets all over the shop. You have limited capacity of doing this
with the BS. This leaves cutting with a Japanese saw which takes way
too long. You can sand them down but shortening half an inch of tenon
tends to tear up the sand paper quickly.

The solution that I have repeated is to use my 12" disk sander to
quickly shorten the length of the tenons before hammering them in to the
mortises. Still this is imprecise and you often end up with a few that
stand tall and I tear my disk sand paper.

Given all the steps start to finish to reinforce drawer joints with
Domino tenons I was considering making all future drawers with box
joints or DT's. These are more trouble than plain old rabbit joints but
probably faster and less trouble than using the Domino tenons, consider
all the steps involved.

Then, day before yesterday I thought about my Fein multimeter.
On this time with the 48 tenons on the 6 drawers I put them in full
length and there fore eliminated having to shorten them on the disk
sander and trimmed all of them just a hair proud of flush after
hammering them in.

Daaaaamn, 2~3 seconds per tenon and very little cleanup sanding at all.

It only took me about 115 drawers to figure that out. But who is counting?

Rambling on, maybe I'll sell my Fein Multimaster and get a cordless one
with the tool-less feature. Naaaaaaa. ;~)

;-)

For that use, I probably wouldn't mind a corded tool. All of the work
is being done in the shop and there is already plenty of power around.
Multi-tools tend to be used all over the house, though. It's nice to
not have to haul extension cords around. For many jobs, hauling
everything out and putting it away takes half the time.

Last week I was putting fold-down extensions on my down spouts. I
needed to trim about 10" off the downspouts, add the splash blocks,
and rivet the mess back together. Hauling an extension cord around
the house would have been a PITA. I have cordless drills for this
reason, the cordless multi-tool is a perfect match. I also have a
small circular saw, for the same reason. I'll probably get a cordless
saber or reciprocating saw one of these days, too.

The Multimaster has certainly been a life saver and that can pay for the
tool with only a few times of use but now I will no longer be sanding
those tenons to length.

How about cutting them to length before use?


Tried that too, but the TS shot those too and I was not comfortable with
repeated cutting something about 1 1/4" long and 3/16 thick and 3/4 wide
down to 5/8" in length and that would be a set up for repeated cuts and
really in the long run not IMHO faster than 2~3 seconds it takes to cut
them with the Fein after being glued in place.

That's what they invented these things called "jigs" for. ;-) I'd be
worried about slipping and gouging the work piece all to hell.

On 9/20/2015 7:37 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

My bad (sorry). I thought you were talking about an *oscillating
sander*. I have a variable speed "oscillating tool" from Menards
which cost me about $35, I think. I have found it handy in trimming
shims and the bottoms of door frames.

Just keep using it Bill - you will find that the list of useful purposes for
these tools just magically keeps growing. Makes ya wonder why it took so
long for them to develop it.

Two things happen to us wood butchers in the course of a lifetime:

We stumble on to tools like the multi-tool and once we pick one up we
wonder how we ever survived without it.

The other thing is we DON'T pick up specialized tools but are lazy and
figure out a way (outside the box) to use what we DO have.

Although I had the multi-tool by this point, even that was too slow for
me when I needed to undercut a dozen or so door jambs while installing
new hardwood flooring.

They make a nice saw especially designed for this purpose but I have a
very nice Porter-Cable biscuit cutter. Set to 90 degrees, set on a shim
to raise the top of the blade to where it needed to be and each jamb
took about a minute. That carbide blade doing the plunge cuts was so
sweet, the jamb and trim didn't even need a touch up of stain.

I have the (or a) Rockwell machine. Universal head.
I can buy what is out there for sale and use it.

It rocks. I got it to replace an exterior vent to the drier
that was RTV'd onto brick. But haven't gotten to that job,
but plenty of others.

It surprised my wife on how easy it was to use and got some looks
like she might use it someday herself.

Possible - she has a nice drill and other tools for work on the house...
(I use them mostly).

Martin


On 9/20/2015 10:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 9/20/2015 10:39 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I'm surprised to hear that it is comparable in performance to the Fein.

I now see that Dremel makes several models. Mine was an early one
(6300), with a less powerful motor.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 9/20/2015 8:58 PM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 19:49:57 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 5:14 PM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:07:56 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 11:16 AM, krw wrote:


Ease of use and setup makes a tool more likely to be used. I have a Fein
and truly wish it had the quick release and notched index blade setup. I
find that the easier the tool is to setup the more I use it. Mine is the
older design that requires the odd hex wrench to replace attachments and ir
adjust attachments. Other than that it operated very smoothly.


I'm not only in the "ease of setup and use" boat with you, I'm driving
the ship!

Which is the whole reason behind cordless tools. The Bosch
oscillating tool uses a hex screw to hold on the blade - its weakness.


I think cordless makes a lot of sense for tools with regular use and
certainly they are more convenient.

I prefer corded for a tool that does not see a lot of action.

Why? If you're worried about battery self-discharge, LiIon all but
solved that problem. They have a half-life of something like two
years. Multiple tools using the same batteries also mitigate any such
problems.

In the mid 80's my wife gave me a right angle 1/4" reversible Makita
cordless drill. It did not see a lot of use and therefore after it was
3~4 years old the battery always had to be recharged before use.

I probably have the same drill. It wasn't a huge issue because I also
had a drill and 3-3/8" circular saw using the same batteries. The
batteries didn't last all that long and were expensive, so replaced
the drill. If I need the right-angle drill or cut off saw, I'll need
to buy new batteries anyway. ...and the next time. ...and the next.

The tool that gets about the same amount of use is my corded Fein
Multimaster. I'm certainly glad it is corded and only for that reason.

But LiIon batteries don't have a rapid discharge. Even if you don't
use it for a year, it'll still have something more than half charge.

Understood but I have a Bosch impact that came with 2 Li-Ion batteries.
Probably 7 years old. Both batteries were toast a couple of months
ago so I bought 1 OEM replacement. I got the Bosch when I already had a
Makita impact that was on my second set of batteries.
anyway I seldom use the Bosch, 18 volt. I preferred the 12 volt Makita.
Some how or another I must have won the Bosch as there was no explanation.

I have all three Bosch 12V tools (drill, driver, and Impactor, though
no batteries came with the drivers) and picked up five or six more,
cheap, when the BORG stopped selling Bosch. One or two died very
early so that leaves eight or so. It's been at least four years, so
they've held up well.

The Festool Li-Ion batteries are still going strong and they are almost
4 years old.

LiIon batteries last a long time. They're more limited by charge
cycles than time.

Tell that to the 5~7 charge cycles each of those batteries went through.
Remember, I seldom used that impact compared to the Makita. I will
give you that Li-Ion batteries do tend to out last others but they do
have a limited life regardless of how many charge cycles they get.





Now let me backpedal.

I build a lot. I use my Domino extensively. I use the Domino to
reinforce the rabbit joints on drawers with a minimum of 2 on each
corner of each drawer. Day before yesterday I plunge cut 48 mortises
after gluing up the drawers to reinforce the joints. The plunge with
the 5mm bit is limited to less than the length of the 5mm domino tenon.

If I do not shorten the tenons before hammering them in they have to be
cut after the fact.

Doing this with the TS is possible but you get tenons ends flying out
like bullets all over the shop. You have limited capacity of doing this
with the BS. This leaves cutting with a Japanese saw which takes way
too long. You can sand them down but shortening half an inch of tenon
tends to tear up the sand paper quickly.

The solution that I have repeated is to use my 12" disk sander to
quickly shorten the length of the tenons before hammering them in to the
mortises. Still this is imprecise and you often end up with a few that
stand tall and I tear my disk sand paper.

Given all the steps start to finish to reinforce drawer joints with
Domino tenons I was considering making all future drawers with box
joints or DT's. These are more trouble than plain old rabbit joints but
probably faster and less trouble than using the Domino tenons, consider
all the steps involved.

Then, day before yesterday I thought about my Fein multimeter.
On this time with the 48 tenons on the 6 drawers I put them in full
length and there fore eliminated having to shorten them on the disk
sander and trimmed all of them just a hair proud of flush after
hammering them in.

Daaaaamn, 2~3 seconds per tenon and very little cleanup sanding at all.

It only took me about 115 drawers to figure that out. But who is counting?

Rambling on, maybe I'll sell my Fein Multimaster and get a cordless one
with the tool-less feature. Naaaaaaa. ;~)

;-)

For that use, I probably wouldn't mind a corded tool. All of the work
is being done in the shop and there is already plenty of power around.
Multi-tools tend to be used all over the house, though. It's nice to
not have to haul extension cords around. For many jobs, hauling
everything out and putting it away takes half the time.

Last week I was putting fold-down extensions on my down spouts. I
needed to trim about 10" off the downspouts, add the splash blocks,
and rivet the mess back together. Hauling an extension cord around
the house would have been a PITA. I have cordless drills for this
reason, the cordless multi-tool is a perfect match. I also have a
small circular saw, for the same reason. I'll probably get a cordless
saber or reciprocating saw one of these days, too.

The Multimaster has certainly been a life saver and that can pay for the
tool with only a few times of use but now I will no longer be sanding
those tenons to length.

How about cutting them to length before use?


Tried that too, but the TS shot those too and I was not comfortable with
repeated cutting something about 1 1/4" long and 3/16 thick and 3/4 wide
down to 5/8" in length and that would be a set up for repeated cuts and
really in the long run not IMHO faster than 2~3 seconds it takes to cut
them with the Fein after being glued in place.

That's what they invented these things called "jigs" for. ;-) I'd be
worried about slipping and gouging the work piece all to hell.

Noooo no no. The blade is offset from the attachment point so you can
lay the bottom of the blade flat on the work. The "wood only" blades
teeth have very little set so there is no issue with damaging the
surface. Piece of cake.