On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:35:25 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 8:58 PM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 19:49:57 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 5:14 PM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:07:56 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 11:16 AM, krw wrote:


Ease of use and setup makes a tool more likely to be used. I have a Fein
and truly wish it had the quick release and notched index blade setup. I
find that the easier the tool is to setup the more I use it. Mine is the
older design that requires the odd hex wrench to replace attachments and ir
adjust attachments. Other than that it operated very smoothly.


I'm not only in the "ease of setup and use" boat with you, I'm driving
the ship!

Which is the whole reason behind cordless tools. The Bosch
oscillating tool uses a hex screw to hold on the blade - its weakness.


I think cordless makes a lot of sense for tools with regular use and
certainly they are more convenient.

I prefer corded for a tool that does not see a lot of action.

Why? If you're worried about battery self-discharge, LiIon all but
solved that problem. They have a half-life of something like two
years. Multiple tools using the same batteries also mitigate any such
problems.

In the mid 80's my wife gave me a right angle 1/4" reversible Makita
cordless drill. It did not see a lot of use and therefore after it was
3~4 years old the battery always had to be recharged before use.

I probably have the same drill. It wasn't a huge issue because I also
had a drill and 3-3/8" circular saw using the same batteries. The
batteries didn't last all that long and were expensive, so replaced
the drill. If I need the right-angle drill or cut off saw, I'll need
to buy new batteries anyway. ...and the next time. ...and the next.

The tool that gets about the same amount of use is my corded Fein
Multimaster. I'm certainly glad it is corded and only for that reason.

But LiIon batteries don't have a rapid discharge. Even if you don't
use it for a year, it'll still have something more than half charge.

Understood but I have a Bosch impact that came with 2 Li-Ion batteries.
Probably 7 years old. Both batteries were toast a couple of months
ago so I bought 1 OEM replacement. I got the Bosch when I already had a
Makita impact that was on my second set of batteries.
anyway I seldom use the Bosch, 18 volt. I preferred the 12 volt Makita.
Some how or another I must have won the Bosch as there was no explanation.

I have all three Bosch 12V tools (drill, driver, and Impactor, though
no batteries came with the drivers) and picked up five or six more,
cheap, when the BORG stopped selling Bosch. One or two died very
early so that leaves eight or so. It's been at least four years, so
they've held up well.

The Festool Li-Ion batteries are still going strong and they are almost
4 years old.

LiIon batteries last a long time. They're more limited by charge
cycles than time.

Tell that to the 5~7 charge cycles each of those batteries went through.

LiIon or NiCd?

Remember, I seldom used that impact compared to the Makita. I will
give you that Li-Ion batteries do tend to out last others but they do
have a limited life regardless of how many charge cycles they get.

Everything has a lifetime but LiIon batteries should last a decade (or
~500-1000 cycles). There are early failures in any battery and LiIons
are particularly prone, due to the protection circuitry not used for
other battery chemistries.




Now let me backpedal.

I build a lot. I use my Domino extensively. I use the Domino to
reinforce the rabbit joints on drawers with a minimum of 2 on each
corner of each drawer. Day before yesterday I plunge cut 48 mortises
after gluing up the drawers to reinforce the joints. The plunge with
the 5mm bit is limited to less than the length of the 5mm domino tenon.

If I do not shorten the tenons before hammering them in they have to be
cut after the fact.

Doing this with the TS is possible but you get tenons ends flying out
like bullets all over the shop. You have limited capacity of doing this
with the BS. This leaves cutting with a Japanese saw which takes way
too long. You can sand them down but shortening half an inch of tenon
tends to tear up the sand paper quickly.

The solution that I have repeated is to use my 12" disk sander to
quickly shorten the length of the tenons before hammering them in to the
mortises. Still this is imprecise and you often end up with a few that
stand tall and I tear my disk sand paper.

Given all the steps start to finish to reinforce drawer joints with
Domino tenons I was considering making all future drawers with box
joints or DT's. These are more trouble than plain old rabbit joints but
probably faster and less trouble than using the Domino tenons, consider
all the steps involved.

Then, day before yesterday I thought about my Fein multimeter.
On this time with the 48 tenons on the 6 drawers I put them in full
length and there fore eliminated having to shorten them on the disk
sander and trimmed all of them just a hair proud of flush after
hammering them in.

Daaaaamn, 2~3 seconds per tenon and very little cleanup sanding at all.

It only took me about 115 drawers to figure that out. But who is counting?

Rambling on, maybe I'll sell my Fein Multimaster and get a cordless one
with the tool-less feature. Naaaaaaa. ;~)

;-)

For that use, I probably wouldn't mind a corded tool. All of the work
is being done in the shop and there is already plenty of power around.
Multi-tools tend to be used all over the house, though. It's nice to
not have to haul extension cords around. For many jobs, hauling
everything out and putting it away takes half the time.

Last week I was putting fold-down extensions on my down spouts. I
needed to trim about 10" off the downspouts, add the splash blocks,
and rivet the mess back together. Hauling an extension cord around
the house would have been a PITA. I have cordless drills for this
reason, the cordless multi-tool is a perfect match. I also have a
small circular saw, for the same reason. I'll probably get a cordless
saber or reciprocating saw one of these days, too.

The Multimaster has certainly been a life saver and that can pay for the
tool with only a few times of use but now I will no longer be sanding
those tenons to length.

How about cutting them to length before use?


Tried that too, but the TS shot those too and I was not comfortable with
repeated cutting something about 1 1/4" long and 3/16 thick and 3/4 wide
down to 5/8" in length and that would be a set up for repeated cuts and
really in the long run not IMHO faster than 2~3 seconds it takes to cut
them with the Fein after being glued in place.

That's what they invented these things called "jigs" for. ;-) I'd be
worried about slipping and gouging the work piece all to hell.

Noooo no no. The blade is offset from the attachment point so you can
lay the bottom of the blade flat on the work. The "wood only" blades
teeth have very little set so there is no issue with damaging the
surface. Piece of cake.

The blade doesn't scratch the work?

krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:35:25 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 8:58 PM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 19:49:57 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 5:14 PM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:07:56 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 9/20/2015 11:16 AM, krw wrote:


Ease of use and setup makes a tool more likely to be used. I have a Fein
and truly wish it had the quick release and notched index blade setup. I
find that the easier the tool is to setup the more I use it. Mine is the
older design that requires the odd hex wrench to replace attachments and ir
adjust attachments. Other than that it operated very smoothly.


I'm not only in the "ease of setup and use" boat with you, I'm driving
the ship!

Which is the whole reason behind cordless tools. The Bosch
oscillating tool uses a hex screw to hold on the blade - its weakness.


I think cordless makes a lot of sense for tools with regular use and
certainly they are more convenient.

I prefer corded for a tool that does not see a lot of action.

Why? If you're worried about battery self-discharge, LiIon all but
solved that problem. They have a half-life of something like two
years. Multiple tools using the same batteries also mitigate any such
problems.

In the mid 80's my wife gave me a right angle 1/4" reversible Makita
cordless drill. It did not see a lot of use and therefore after it was
3~4 years old the battery always had to be recharged before use.

I probably have the same drill. It wasn't a huge issue because I also
had a drill and 3-3/8" circular saw using the same batteries. The
batteries didn't last all that long and were expensive, so replaced
the drill. If I need the right-angle drill or cut off saw, I'll need
to buy new batteries anyway. ...and the next time. ...and the next.

The tool that gets about the same amount of use is my corded Fein
Multimaster. I'm certainly glad it is corded and only for that reason.

But LiIon batteries don't have a rapid discharge. Even if you don't
use it for a year, it'll still have something more than half charge.

Understood but I have a Bosch impact that came with 2 Li-Ion batteries.
Probably 7 years old. Both batteries were toast a couple of months
ago so I bought 1 OEM replacement. I got the Bosch when I already had a
Makita impact that was on my second set of batteries.
anyway I seldom use the Bosch, 18 volt. I preferred the 12 volt Makita.
Some how or another I must have won the Bosch as there was no explanation.

I have all three Bosch 12V tools (drill, driver, and Impactor, though
no batteries came with the drivers) and picked up five or six more,
cheap, when the BORG stopped selling Bosch. One or two died very
early so that leaves eight or so. It's been at least four years, so
they've held up well.

The Festool Li-Ion batteries are still going strong and they are almost
4 years old.

LiIon batteries last a long time. They're more limited by charge
cycles than time.

Tell that to the 5~7 charge cycles each of those batteries went through.

LiIon or NiCd?

Remember, I seldom used that impact compared to the Makita. I will
give you that Li-Ion batteries do tend to out last others but they do
have a limited life regardless of how many charge cycles they get.

Everything has a lifetime but LiIon batteries should last a decade (or
~500-1000 cycles). There are early failures in any battery and LiIons
are particularly prone, due to the protection circuitry not used for
other battery chemistries.




Now let me backpedal.

I build a lot. I use my Domino extensively. I use the Domino to
reinforce the rabbit joints on drawers with a minimum of 2 on each
corner of each drawer. Day before yesterday I plunge cut 48 mortises
after gluing up the drawers to reinforce the joints. The plunge with
the 5mm bit is limited to less than the length of the 5mm domino tenon.

If I do not shorten the tenons before hammering them in they have to be
cut after the fact.

Doing this with the TS is possible but you get tenons ends flying out
like bullets all over the shop. You have limited capacity of doing this
with the BS. This leaves cutting with a Japanese saw which takes way
too long. You can sand them down but shortening half an inch of tenon
tends to tear up the sand paper quickly.

The solution that I have repeated is to use my 12" disk sander to
quickly shorten the length of the tenons before hammering them in to the
mortises. Still this is imprecise and you often end up with a few that
stand tall and I tear my disk sand paper.

Given all the steps start to finish to reinforce drawer joints with
Domino tenons I was considering making all future drawers with box
joints or DT's. These are more trouble than plain old rabbit joints but
probably faster and less trouble than using the Domino tenons, consider
all the steps involved.

Then, day before yesterday I thought about my Fein multimeter.
On this time with the 48 tenons on the 6 drawers I put them in full
length and there fore eliminated having to shorten them on the disk
sander and trimmed all of them just a hair proud of flush after
hammering them in.

Daaaaamn, 2~3 seconds per tenon and very little cleanup sanding at all.

It only took me about 115 drawers to figure that out. But who is counting?

Rambling on, maybe I'll sell my Fein Multimaster and get a cordless one
with the tool-less feature. Naaaaaaa. ;~)

;-)

For that use, I probably wouldn't mind a corded tool. All of the work
is being done in the shop and there is already plenty of power around.
Multi-tools tend to be used all over the house, though. It's nice to
not have to haul extension cords around. For many jobs, hauling
everything out and putting it away takes half the time.

Last week I was putting fold-down extensions on my down spouts. I
needed to trim about 10" off the downspouts, add the splash blocks,
and rivet the mess back together. Hauling an extension cord around
the house would have been a PITA. I have cordless drills for this
reason, the cordless multi-tool is a perfect match. I also have a
small circular saw, for the same reason. I'll probably get a cordless
saber or reciprocating saw one of these days, too.

The Multimaster has certainly been a life saver and that can pay for the
tool with only a few times of use but now I will no longer be sanding
those tenons to length.

How about cutting them to length before use?


Tried that too, but the TS shot those too and I was not comfortable with
repeated cutting something about 1 1/4" long and 3/16 thick and 3/4 wide
down to 5/8" in length and that would be a set up for repeated cuts and
really in the long run not IMHO faster than 2~3 seconds it takes to cut
them with the Fein after being glued in place.

That's what they invented these things called "jigs" for. ;-) I'd be
worried about slipping and gouging the work piece all to hell.

Noooo no no. The blade is offset from the attachment point so you can
lay the bottom of the blade flat on the work. The "wood only" blades
teeth have very little set so there is no issue with damaging the
surface. Piece of cake.

The blade doesn't scratch the work?

No, not if you hold the blade flat on the work. It all, the joints, still
needs to be sanded afterwards, I just do that last.

On 9/21/2015 8:57 PM, krw wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 22:35:25 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:
Snip



The Festool Li-Ion batteries are still going strong and they are almost
4 years old.

LiIon batteries last a long time. They're more limited by charge
cycles than time.

Tell that to the 5~7 charge cycles each of those batteries went through.

LiIon or NiCd?

LiIon 18 volt



Snip


Tried that too, but the TS shot those too and I was not comfortable with
repeated cutting something about 1 1/4" long and 3/16 thick and 3/4 wide
down to 5/8" in length and that would be a set up for repeated cuts and
really in the long run not IMHO faster than 2~3 seconds it takes to cut
them with the Fein after being glued in place.

That's what they invented these things called "jigs" for. ;-) I'd be
worried about slipping and gouging the work piece all to hell.

Noooo no no. The blade is offset from the attachment point so you can
lay the bottom of the blade flat on the work. The "wood only" blades
teeth have very little set so there is no issue with damaging the
surface. Piece of cake.

The blade doesn't scratch the work?

No, not if you keep the blade flat. I not using the blade that cuts
metals too. I am using the strictly wood cutting blades with a offset flat.

I have little use for one of these, as my remodeling days are long gone,
I thought. My wife forced me into gutting our bathroom and I borrowed
my buddies HF multi-tool to cut the door moldings to accommodate the new
ceramic tile floor. It was really loud, but worked fine. Later, I was
at HF to get some cheap batteries on sale, and they had the Multi-tool
on sale for a price I couldn't pass up. Anyway, I did actually use the
thing twice, and it worked fine, but, it was MUCH quieter than my
buddies. Not sure if it was because it was new, or not used much. My
buddy said he used his a lot, which I doubt.

If you seldom use it, I would get the HF. If you use it a lot, I'd
spend 10x's as much and get a decent one. If you make a living using
this on a daily basis, use your best judgement. I think they changed
the way the blades mount from the old ones, but I can't say for sure.
I was watching a contractor use one, not sure what brand, but it was
loud as hell, so don't count on any of them being too quiet.

I have 2 HF tools, this thing, which I rarely use, an air pin
nailer/staple gun which I also seldom use, but it works when I use it.
If it weren't for HF, I wouldn't own either of these tools, but they
almost give them away.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 9/19/15 11:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender. So
even though it probably will, I would like this thread to not
quickly escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over
again too many times already, HF multitool debate. :-) After
probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong, but I'm
looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it.
Plus, it's so fricken loud!!! 2. The new oscillating tools I've seen
have a quick release and that's very appealing to me. 3. I'm hoping
the brand name tools actually perform better. After using the HF for
so long, I think I will able to very quickly determine if this is the
case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like opinions
about oscillating tools from those who have actually used them. I'm
looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool blade release, and
probably NOT battery operated, although I might be able to be
convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have adapters or
already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an
oscillating tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so
I'm sticking with those.


On a whim, I bought the Fein 350Q for $200 and WOW.... just wow.
As for my criteria...
It's remarkably quiet for an oscillating multitool.
No discernible heat whatsoever.
The quick release is a thing of beauty. So easy and fast, it is no
longer even a second thought whether to reposition or change blades. I
just do it. It's about as fast as changing hand position.
As for performing better than the HF. Well, it costs 15x as much and
easily performs 15x as well, as I always suspected. I'm still just as
much an advocate of the HF because it does very well and for the price,
it does a whole lot better than it should. But I'm very happy I finally
bought a *real* multitool. But the Fein cut much faster, much cleaner,
and is much better to use.

Pleasant surprises about the Fein:
SOFT Start! I had no idea it did this and wouldn't want it any other
way. There are so many advantages to this.
Virtually vibration free! My hands used to get a bit numb with the HF
after continued use. With the Fein, you almost don't know it's on and
it hardly moves if you set it down while running.
I mentioned it's much quieter.
The 17ft. cord! One of you mention not liking it and Karl mentioned
liking it... well, I'm with Karl in this one. I always needed to have
an extension cord with the HF but I don't think I'll ever use one with
the Fein. It's a very high quality, braided sheathed, cable so I don't
see it getting kinked up any time soon.
It's smaller around than the others I looked at. Not a whole lot, but
it's a lot when you hold it and have to maneuver it. I don't have big
gorilla hands, so it's an advantage for me when using it.
It takes Dremel and Ridgid blades (and likely others). Using only their
own blades was a big issue when the Fein first stormed the market, but
things seemed to have changed and blades are more universal.

I'm actually still thinking about the cordless Bosch, but I needed to
use this today and no local stores carry the Bosch. But if I end up
keeping the Fein (or returning it and getting the deal at coastaltool),
I don't think I'll ever look back.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
On 9/19/15 11:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is well
documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender. So
even though it probably will, I would like this thread to not
quickly escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and over
again too many times already, HF multitool debate. :-) After
probably eight years with the thing, it's still going strong, but I'm
looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on it.
Plus, it's so fricken loud!!! 2. The new oscillating tools I've seen
have a quick release and that's very appealing to me. 3. I'm hoping
the brand name tools actually perform better. After using the HF for
so long, I think I will able to very quickly determine if this is the
case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like opinions
about oscillating tools from those who have actually used them. I'm
looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool blade release, and
probably NOT battery operated, although I might be able to be
convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have adapters or
already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a close
second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an
oscillating tool. All the other brands have options under $150, so
I'm sticking with those.


On a whim, I bought the Fein 350Q for $200 and WOW.... just wow.
As for my criteria...
It's remarkably quiet for an oscillating multitool.
No discernible heat whatsoever.
The quick release is a thing of beauty. So easy and fast, it is no
longer even a second thought whether to reposition or change blades. I
just do it. It's about as fast as changing hand position.
As for performing better than the HF. Well, it costs 15x as much and
easily performs 15x as well, as I always suspected. I'm still just as
much an advocate of the HF because it does very well and for the price,
it does a whole lot better than it should. But I'm very happy I finally
bought a *real* multitool. But the Fein cut much faster, much cleaner,
and is much better to use.

Pleasant surprises about the Fein:
SOFT Start! I had no idea it did this and wouldn't want it any other
way. There are so many advantages to this.
Virtually vibration free! My hands used to get a bit numb with the HF
after continued use. With the Fein, you almost don't know it's on and
it hardly moves if you set it down while running.
I mentioned it's much quieter.
The 17ft. cord! One of you mention not liking it and Karl mentioned
liking it... well, I'm with Karl in this one. I always needed to have
an extension cord with the HF but I don't think I'll ever use one with
the Fein. It's a very high quality, braided sheathed, cable so I don't
see it getting kinked up any time soon.
It's smaller around than the others I looked at. Not a whole lot, but
it's a lot when you hold it and have to maneuver it. I don't have big
gorilla hands, so it's an advantage for me when using it.
It takes Dremel and Ridgid blades (and likely others). Using only their
own blades was a big issue when the Fein first stormed the market, but
things seemed to have changed and blades are more universal.

I'm actually still thinking about the cordless Bosch, but I needed to
use this today and no local stores carry the Bosch. But if I end up
keeping the Fein (or returning it and getting the deal at coastaltool),
I don't think I'll ever look back.



Soooo, you like it? :-)
FWIW. The blades for that thing 7-8 years ago were a minimum of a about
$37.00 each.
Now that Fein finally has some competition there are a lot of options for
blades.
You might want to also look at Imperial for replacement blades, I
understand that they are good and make blades for most any multi tool
brand. I have not yet tried them, I wonder if anyone here has ant
experience with them.

On 9/25/2015 12:54 AM, Leon wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 9/19/15 11:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D


[snip]


On a whim, I bought the Fein 350Q for $200 and WOW.... just wow.
As for my criteria...
It's remarkably quiet for an oscillating multitool.
No discernible heat whatsoever.
The quick release is a thing of beauty. So easy and fast, it is no
longer even a second thought whether to reposition or change blades. I
just do it. It's about as fast as changing hand position.
As for performing better than the HF. Well, it costs 15x as much and
easily performs 15x as well, as I always suspected. I'm still just as
much an advocate of the HF because it does very well and for the price,
it does a whole lot better than it should. But I'm very happy I finally
bought a *real* multitool. But the Fein cut much faster, much cleaner,
and is much better to use.

Pleasant surprises about the Fein:
SOFT Start! I had no idea it did this and wouldn't want it any other
way. There are so many advantages to this.
Virtually vibration free! My hands used to get a bit numb with the HF
after continued use. With the Fein, you almost don't know it's on and
it hardly moves if you set it down while running.
I mentioned it's much quieter.
The 17ft. cord! One of you mention not liking it and Karl mentioned
liking it... well, I'm with Karl in this one. I always needed to have
an extension cord with the HF but I don't think I'll ever use one with
the Fein. It's a very high quality, braided sheathed, cable so I don't
see it getting kinked up any time soon.
It's smaller around than the others I looked at. Not a whole lot, but
it's a lot when you hold it and have to maneuver it. I don't have big
gorilla hands, so it's an advantage for me when using it.
It takes Dremel and Ridgid blades (and likely others). Using only their
own blades was a big issue when the Fein first stormed the market, but
things seemed to have changed and blades are more universal.

I'm actually still thinking about the cordless Bosch, but I needed to
use this today and no local stores carry the Bosch. But if I end up
keeping the Fein (or returning it and getting the deal at coastaltool),
I don't think I'll ever look back.



Soooo, you like it? :-)
FWIW. The blades for that thing 7-8 years ago were a minimum of a about
$37.00 each.
Now that Fein finally has some competition there are a lot of options for
blades.
You might want to also look at Imperial for replacement blades, I
understand that they are good and make blades for most any multi tool
brand. I have not yet tried them, I wonder if anyone here has ant
experience with them.


Thanks for the interesting review of the Fein, Mike. It's always
interesting to read of others experiences with new tools - the reviews
not fueled by ad dollars coming in or slipping away, g

Blades are expensive, no doubt about it. My tactic has been to watch
for sales of the house brand or others at Menard's, et al. While I use
my Bosch every chance I get, it still is not "overworked" and I have a
nice supply of blades that I got on the cheap. IIRC, I bought one of
the "batches of blades" at Menard's for maybe 80% off.

I have yet to say "Damn! I sure wish I'd bought a better blade so this
job would look better, go faster." IOW all have been adequate for the
job. Might a better blade last longer?

Well, I'm reminded of the 85 year old who hooks up with the dynamite
hooker while visiting the casino in Reno. As they head up to his room,
the pit boss cautions him about the intended exertion and he replies,
"Hey, I'll take the risk. If she dies, she dies!"

Crappy blade? Still cuts well enough and if it dies on the job, what do
I care? Not worried about screwing up a $20 blade, I am more "creative"
with what I attempt with the multi-tool

On 9/25/2015 7:09 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 9/25/2015 12:54 AM, Leon wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 9/19/15 11:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up, but
we'll see if I can though this with any actual information. :-D


[snip]


On a whim, I bought the Fein 350Q for $200 and WOW.... just wow.
As for my criteria...
It's remarkably quiet for an oscillating multitool.
No discernible heat whatsoever.
The quick release is a thing of beauty. So easy and fast, it is no
longer even a second thought whether to reposition or change blades. I
just do it. It's about as fast as changing hand position.
As for performing better than the HF. Well, it costs 15x as much and
easily performs 15x as well, as I always suspected. I'm still just as
much an advocate of the HF because it does very well and for the price,
it does a whole lot better than it should. But I'm very happy I finally
bought a *real* multitool. But the Fein cut much faster, much cleaner,
and is much better to use.

Pleasant surprises about the Fein:
SOFT Start! I had no idea it did this and wouldn't want it any other
way. There are so many advantages to this.
Virtually vibration free! My hands used to get a bit numb with the HF
after continued use. With the Fein, you almost don't know it's on and
it hardly moves if you set it down while running.
I mentioned it's much quieter.
The 17ft. cord! One of you mention not liking it and Karl mentioned
liking it... well, I'm with Karl in this one. I always needed to have
an extension cord with the HF but I don't think I'll ever use one with
the Fein. It's a very high quality, braided sheathed, cable so I don't
see it getting kinked up any time soon.
It's smaller around than the others I looked at. Not a whole lot, but
it's a lot when you hold it and have to maneuver it. I don't have big
gorilla hands, so it's an advantage for me when using it.
It takes Dremel and Ridgid blades (and likely others). Using only their
own blades was a big issue when the Fein first stormed the market, but
things seemed to have changed and blades are more universal.

I'm actually still thinking about the cordless Bosch, but I needed to
use this today and no local stores carry the Bosch. But if I end up
keeping the Fein (or returning it and getting the deal at coastaltool),
I don't think I'll ever look back.



Soooo, you like it? :-)
FWIW. The blades for that thing 7-8 years ago were a minimum of a about
$37.00 each.
Now that Fein finally has some competition there are a lot of options for
blades.
You might want to also look at Imperial for replacement blades, I
understand that they are good and make blades for most any multi tool
brand. I have not yet tried them, I wonder if anyone here has ant
experience with them.


Thanks for the interesting review of the Fein, Mike. It's always
interesting to read of others experiences with new tools - the reviews
not fueled by ad dollars coming in or slipping away, g

Blades are expensive, no doubt about it. My tactic has been to watch
for sales of the house brand or others at Menard's, et al. While I use
my Bosch every chance I get, it still is not "overworked" and I have a
nice supply of blades that I got on the cheap. IIRC, I bought one of
the "batches of blades" at Menard's for maybe 80% off.

I have yet to say "Damn! I sure wish I'd bought a better blade so this
job would look better, go faster." IOW all have been adequate for the
job. Might a better blade last longer?

Well, I'm reminded of the 85 year old who hooks up with the dynamite
hooker while visiting the casino in Reno. As they head up to his room,
the pit boss cautions him about the intended exertion and he replies,
"Hey, I'll take the risk. If she dies, she dies!"

Crappy blade? Still cuts well enough and if it dies on the job, what do
I care? Not worried about screwing up a $20 blade, I am more "creative"
with what I attempt with the multi-tool

Hopefully it has been a while since you have bought blades, they can be
had for as little as $2-$10 each in sets now, even with Fein.

On 9/25/2015 7:59 AM, Leon wrote:
On 9/25/2015 7:09 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 9/25/2015 12:54 AM, Leon wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:

[snip]


I have yet to say "Damn! I sure wish I'd bought a better blade so this
job would look better, go faster." IOW all have been adequate for the
job. Might a better blade last longer?

Well, I'm reminded of the 85 year old who hooks up with the dynamite
hooker while visiting the casino in Reno. As they head up to his room,
the pit boss cautions him about the intended exertion and he replies,
"Hey, I'll take the risk. If she dies, she dies!"

Crappy blade? Still cuts well enough and if it dies on the job, what do
I care? Not worried about screwing up a $20 blade, I am more "creative"
with what I attempt with the multi-tool

Hopefully it has been a while since you have bought blades, they can be
had for as little as $2-$10 each in sets now, even with Fein.

For sure. Haven't really looked at them for a couple years. Fell into
a couple of the aforementioned "good deals" back when they were sky high
and...

I'll bet I have better than 30-35 new blades left and doubt that I have
$30 invested in the lot. Those that bite the dust often find themselves
at the grinding wheel having what's left of the teeth ground off and
squared and sharpened for use as power scrapers.

Waste not, want notg

On Thursday, September 24, 2015 at 2:37:50 PM UTC-4, Jack wrote:
I have little use for one of these, as my remodeling days are long gone,
I thought. My wife forced me into gutting our bathroom and I borrowed
my buddies HF multi-tool to cut the door moldings to accommodate the new
ceramic tile floor.

The most "interesting" use of the tool that I experienced was when I helped my son put an bathroom exhaust fan in a really old house. Let me start by saying that I am afraid of heights.

The slope of the roof made it unwalkable, so we wanted to vent it up into the attic and then out through the soffit. There was no room in the attic to cut the soffit hole from up there and the lay of the land prevented the use of a ladder to reach the soffit from outside. The soffit was 3 stories above the ground.

I ending up hanging halfway out of the bathroom window with a rope around my waist and my son holding onto my legs. I forget what we tied the rope to but it was "secure" (yeah, right!)

Anyway, I was barely able to reach the soffit with the tool but managed to cut a square hole to hold the vent cover. It was really the only tool for the job, allowing me to reach out and up with one hand and plunge through the soffit.

Did I mention that I am afraid of heights?

On 9/25/15 12:54 AM, Leon wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 9/19/15 11:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
I know this group and what a huge can of worms I just opened up,
but we'll see if I can though this with any actual information.
:-D

I have the Harbor Freight and I wrote the book on it. It is
well documented in here that I have been its staunchest defender.
So even though it probably will, I would like this thread to not
quickly escalate into the same, tired, old, rehashed over and
over again too many times already, HF multitool debate. :-)
After probably eight years with the thing, it's still going
strong, but I'm looking to upgrade for a few reasons.

1. Noise & Heat. The HF gets so hot you could fry an egg on
it. Plus, it's so fricken loud!!! 2. The new oscillating tools
I've seen have a quick release and that's very appealing to me.
3. I'm hoping the brand name tools actually perform better.
After using the HF for so long, I think I will able to very
quickly determine if this is the case.

So again, this may a be futile request, but I would like
opinions about oscillating tools from those who have actually
used them. I'm looking for quieter, cooler, faster, non-tool
blade release, and probably NOT battery operated, although I
might be able to be convinced.

Blade universality isn't that important since most have adapters
or already accept all blades.

LAST THING: I already know Festool is the best and Fein is a
close second. But I don't have six hundred bucks to spend on an
oscillating tool. All the other brands have options under $150,
so I'm sticking with those.


On a whim, I bought the Fein 350Q for $200 and WOW.... just wow. As
for my criteria... It's remarkably quiet for an oscillating
multitool. No discernible heat whatsoever. The quick release is a
thing of beauty. So easy and fast, it is no longer even a second
thought whether to reposition or change blades. I just do it.
It's about as fast as changing hand position. As for performing
better than the HF. Well, it costs 15x as much and easily performs
15x as well, as I always suspected. I'm still just as much an
advocate of the HF because it does very well and for the price, it
does a whole lot better than it should. But I'm very happy I
finally bought a *real* multitool. But the Fein cut much faster,
much cleaner, and is much better to use.

Pleasant surprises about the Fein: SOFT Start! I had no idea it
did this and wouldn't want it any other way. There are so many
advantages to this. Virtually vibration free! My hands used to get
a bit numb with the HF after continued use. With the Fein, you
almost don't know it's on and it hardly moves if you set it down
while running. I mentioned it's much quieter. The 17ft. cord! One
of you mention not liking it and Karl mentioned liking it... well,
I'm with Karl in this one. I always needed to have an extension
cord with the HF but I don't think I'll ever use one with the Fein.
It's a very high quality, braided sheathed, cable so I don't see it
getting kinked up any time soon. It's smaller around than the
others I looked at. Not a whole lot, but it's a lot when you hold
it and have to maneuver it. I don't have big gorilla hands, so
it's an advantage for me when using it. It takes Dremel and Ridgid
blades (and likely others). Using only their own blades was a big
issue when the Fein first stormed the market, but things seemed to
have changed and blades are more universal.

I'm actually still thinking about the cordless Bosch, but I needed
to use this today and no local stores carry the Bosch. But if I
end up keeping the Fein (or returning it and getting the deal at
coastaltool), I don't think I'll ever look back.



Soooo, you like it? :-) FWIW. The blades for that thing 7-8 years
ago were a minimum of a about $37.00 each. Now that Fein finally has
some competition there are a lot of options for blades. You might
want to also look at Imperial for replacement blades, I understand
that they are good and make blades for most any multi tool brand. I
have not yet tried them, I wonder if anyone here has ant experience
with them.


Our local Home Depot has a full selection of most brands. The Fein's
seem to have come down in price and there are others that are cheaper,
like Ridgid and Dremel.

It's nice to be able to run in and get blades on the go.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply