http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jan 27, 6:41*pm, Swingman wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

That's some pretty funny **** right there.

On 1/27/2010 7:13 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:41 pm, wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

That's some pretty funny **** right there.

Nailed it! ... of all the folks here I figured you would "get it" first!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jan 27, 8:21*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 1/27/2010 7:13 PM, Robatoy wrote:

On Jan 27, 6:41 pm, *wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

That's some pretty funny **** right there.

Nailed it! ... of all the folks here I figured you would "get it" first!

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

There's one going around which is also funny: "Sure the iPad is
lightweight and slim, but can you swim with it?"

"Swingman" wrote in message
news
On 1/27/2010 7:13 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:41 pm, wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

That's some pretty funny **** right there.

Nailed it! ... of all the folks here I figured you would "get it" first!



But does it prevent "estrogen puddles" ? :~)

On 1/27/2010 5:41 PM, Swingman wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs

Funny - and there is this, which isn't...

http://www.defectivebydesign.org/ipad

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Morris Dovey wrote:

On 1/27/2010 5:41 PM, Swingman wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs

Funny - and there is this, which isn't...

http://www.defectivebydesign.org/ipad


Kind of like the Kindle, eh?

Some other things not so cool:
1) No flash support
2) Only allows you to run a single application at a time

More like an iPhone on steroids than a real computer.

From the name to the features, this doesn't seem like one of Apple's best
thought-out ideas. Come on, *nobody* in marketing thought through the
implications of naming this the "iPad"?


--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

On 2010-01-29 22:54:20 -0500, Mark & Juanita said:

Some other things not so cool:
1) No flash support

Flash is the largest cause of freezes in web browsing. Now, If we're
also going to kick about Apple's DRM controlling/limiting access to the
known world, it's worth noting that Flash is proprietary to Adobe.

Plus, Flash just generally sucks, even when used in other Abobe
products. http://adobegripes.tumblr.com/

As of yet, iPod on steroids is a fair summation of the first (and as
yet not on the market) generation iPad. It's not intended as a
computer; it's an information appliance that fits between two market
segments -- the smart phone and the laptop. And Apple has lined up 5
major publishers, and has brought a ray of hope to magazine and
newspaper publishers.

http://daringfireball.net/2010/01/various_ipad_thoughts
http://speirs.org/blog/2010/1/29/future-shock.html
http://cruftbox.com/blog/archives/001592.html#001592

In spite of all that, I doubt I'll be buying an iPad. I know I won't be
buying a Kindle. I prefer my books on real real paper, not on aetheric
vapours.

But let's see how it shakes out.

BTW, Sun Microsystems (remember them?) is history.

"Steve" wrote in message
g.com...
On 2010-01-29 22:54:20 -0500, Mark & Juanita said:

Some other things not so cool:
1) No flash support

Flash is the largest cause of freezes in web browsing. Now, If we're also
going to kick about Apple's DRM controlling/limiting access to the known
world, it's worth noting that Flash is proprietary to Adobe.

Plus, Flash just generally sucks, even when used in other Abobe products.
http://adobegripes.tumblr.com/

As of yet, iPod on steroids is a fair summation of the first (and as yet
not on the market) generation iPad. It's not intended as a computer; it's
an information appliance

IT'S TWO, ***TWO*** APPLIANCES IN ONE!!

And, if you order before midnight we'll send you absolutely free this
$19.95 HF knockoff of a SawStop!! Yes, That's Right!! Just pay the low S&H
of $2495.00.

On 1/30/2010 2:22 AM, Steve wrote:
On 2010-01-29 22:54:20 -0500, Mark & Juanita said:

Some other things not so cool:
1) No flash support

Flash is the largest cause of freezes in web browsing. Now, If we're
also going to kick about Apple's DRM controlling/limiting access to the
known world, it's worth noting that Flash is proprietary to Adobe.

Plus, Flash just generally sucks, even when used in other Abobe
products. http://adobegripes.tumblr.com/

According to Dvorak, et al, in "Cranky Geeks" this week, Adobe is dying
to get flash onto the iPad, but the megalomaniac Jobs will have none of it.

http://www.crankygeeks.com/2010/01/e...pad_tablet.php

I personally think the iPad, or more to the point, its future
iterations, may have a better shot at overall acceptance as an e-book
reader, among its many other capabilities, than the Kindle or Nook in
the long run.

I've been into e-book reader technology since the early 90's and am
continually amazed at the re-inventing of the wheel of the likes of
Amazon, B&N, and Sony, and their failure to take the past "lessons
learned" of Nuvo Media, Franklin and GemStar into account in their
current business models.

In my opinion, the iTunes store, with its content delivery, will make
the difference with the iPad, despite the DRM concerns.

I have two albums myself for sale on iTunes, and a number in which I was
involved in the production, and have been more than happy with their
returns with Apple's "DRM free" performance on Itunes.

It should also lend itself to future use in schools, with textbook
content a likely possibility, and with a much better chance of adherence
to the ADA than the current crop of devices.

I also like the fact that the iPad is NOT e-ink technology. The LED
screen means I can view it at night, in bed, without a separate night
light, and that it will turn itself off after a period of non use. It is
also more eco friendly ... IME, it's the little 'convenience of use'
issues like that can make the difference between success and failure
with this type of technology.

Basically, it appears to me that the iPad could well be the first step
on the path to making this type of techology, and it benefits, ubiquitous.

Jobs, unlike other players in the game, seems to always build upon past
successes ... it is this "standing on the shoulders of the giants who
came before" that seperate his particular vision from the pack, like him
or not.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 1/30/2010 10:04 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
In , Swingman
wrote:

According to Dvorak, et al, in "Cranky Geeks" this week, Adobe is dying
to get flash onto the iPad, but the megalomaniac Jobs will have none of it.

Dvorak aside, Flash is an abomination. H.264 and/or HTML 5 will
hopefully push it into the pit it deserves to live in.

Yabbut, it's the dumb ass kiddie web designers using the wrong tool for
the job and trying to build the entire farking website with flash that
give it much of its bad name, although I agree that it, and Silverlight,
are pretty much toast for the far future.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Steve wrote in news:4b63ec3c$0$5105
:

*snip*


In spite of all that, I doubt I'll be buying an iPad. I know I won't be
buying a Kindle. I prefer my books on real real paper, not on aetheric
vapours.


*snip*

Have you had a chance to read a book on a Kindle? It's not worth buying
yet, but the reading experience is quite good. (I want the DX model that
can display PDFs. Electronic manuals on a portable device would help quite
a bit when the computer's far away.)

Slightly OT: PDF is usually disappointing, it can be done well but rarely
is. Most companies scan and release documents as PDF. (That's why I call
it Printing Document Format)

Puckdropper

Steve wrote:

On 2010-01-29 22:54:20 -0500, Mark & Juanita said:

Some other things not so cool:
1) No flash support

Flash is the largest cause of freezes in web browsing. Now, If we're
also going to kick about Apple's DRM controlling/limiting access to the
known world, it's worth noting that Flash is proprietary to Adobe.

Plus, Flash just generally sucks, even when used in other Abobe
products. http://adobegripes.tumblr.com/


While that may be true, the fact that a significant portion of web
content is distributed via flash (i.e, YouTube, Viddler, various news
videos), not supporting flash is somewhat debilitating to those using this
device for web browsing.



As of yet, iPod on steroids is a fair summation of the first (and as
yet not on the market) generation iPad. It's not intended as a
computer; it's an information appliance that fits between two market
segments -- the smart phone and the laptop. And Apple has lined up 5
major publishers, and has brought a ray of hope to magazine and
newspaper publishers.

http://daringfireball.net/2010/01/various_ipad_thoughts
http://speirs.org/blog/2010/1/29/future-shock.html
http://cruftbox.com/blog/archives/001592.html#001592

In spite of all that, I doubt I'll be buying an iPad. I know I won't be
buying a Kindle. I prefer my books on real real paper, not on aetheric
vapours.

But let's see how it shakes out.

BTW, Sun Microsystems (remember them?) is history.

... and how Oracle will control both the opensource database and Java are
going to be quite interesting. Larry Ellison is not known for open-ness

--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
...
Steve wrote in news:4b63ec3c$0$5105
:


Have you had a chance to read a book on a Kindle? It's not worth buying
yet, but the reading experience is quite good. (I want the DX model that
can display PDFs. Electronic manuals on a portable device would help
quite
a bit when the computer's far away.)

Slightly OT: PDF is usually disappointing, it can be done well but rarely
is. Most companies scan and release documents as PDF. (That's why I call
it Printing Document Format)


I watched with interest the Kindle however IMHO when compared to the Nook if
comes in second. The Nook also allows PDF but also allows you to upgrade
memory with off the shelf products and you can also replace the battery
yourself when the time comes. I see little desire for the current Sony.
The I-Pad seems to be more bang for your buck in so much that it appears to
be a better back lit color reader plus internet access and e-mail access
along with all the apps that can be added. Still a netbook computer can do
all of that too, for a lot less.

On 1/30/2010 11:58 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in news:4b63ec3c$0$5105
:

*snip*


In spite of all that, I doubt I'll be buying an iPad. I know I won't be
buying a Kindle. I prefer my books on real real paper, not on aetheric
vapours.


*snip*

Have you had a chance to read a book on a Kindle? It's not worth buying
yet, but the reading experience is quite good. (I want the DX model that
can display PDFs. Electronic manuals on a portable device would help quite
a bit when the computer's far away.)

I'm not impressed with the Kindle in the least. The Nook, because it is
more format options, would get the edge at the moment, but that
notwithstanding, neither of these johnny-come-lately's "get it", IMO.

In 1998 I purchased four, for our company's two tech personnel, as well
as myself and partner, of Nuvo Media's "Rocket eBook" to store and read
html tech documents, including all Internet RFC's, and DNS/BIND
documents ... it worked out very well for the next seven years and we
were still using them when we shut company down in 2005.

(I also used mine onstage a time or two for chord charts ...worked out
great on a dimly lit stage ... and to this day I read on it nightly, in
bed, getting all my content for the last ten years from Project Gutenberg)

Ideally, these thing should be like razors ... the device itself should
be free, and you buy the content.

They should all be non-proprietary as to format, allowing pdf, html,
and, _above all_, *user created* content to be used.

This will happen ... the problem now is freeing the archaic thought
process/business model of the "publishers" of the world.

That's why I think Apple's iTunes model, which showed music publishers
that another way of doing business was not going to put them out of
business, may play a pivotal role in the acceptance of these devices.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 1/29/10 10:54 PM, "Mark & Juanita" wrote:

Some other things not so cool:
1) No flash support

This is a good thing. Flash should die and be replaced by HTML 5.

2) Only allows you to run a single application at a time

Not completely true. On the iPhone, built in apps do multi-task, just not
third party ones.


More like an iPhone on steroids than a real computer.

It doesn't seem targeted at that. It is described as a new class of device,
not a smart phone and not a laptop.

Now it may be that this new class doesn't meet your needs. I'm not convinced
that I want one myself. But recognize that Apple is pitching this as
something different.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:04:29 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article , Swingman
wrote:

According to Dvorak, et al, in "Cranky Geeks" this week, Adobe is dying
to get flash onto the iPad, but the megalomaniac Jobs will have none of it.

Dvorak aside, Flash is an abomination. H.264 and/or HTML 5 will
hopefully push it into the pit it deserves to live in.


I dont think the pdf format is going away, it is the standard document
format. I have serious doubts the iPad will make it, Apple set the
price too high (again).

On Jan 30, 2:22*pm, Dave Balderstone
wrote:
In article , Leon

wrote:
I watched with interest the Kindle however IMHO when compared to the Nook if
comes in second. *The Nook also allows PDF but also allows you to upgrade
memory with off the shelf products and you can also replace the battery
yourself when the time comes. *I see little desire for the current Sony.
The I-Pad seems to be more bang for your buck in so much that it appears to
be a better back lit color reader plus internet access and e-mail access
along with all the apps that can be added. *Still a netbook computer can do
all of that too, for a lot less.

Hmm. I can spend several hundreds of dollars to buy a device that
allows me to read an electronic text file I essentially RENT for a $10
fee and can have removed from said device at any time with no recourse,
or I can buy a BOOK for $10, read it, loan it to friends, and
ultimately resell it for a couple of bucks or donate it to a charitable
organization's book sale.

Hmm. I think I know where I'm going to end up going with this...

The Kindle and Nook have no attraction for me whatsoever, and my
reaction to the iPad is "meh." It doesn't seem to be more than a giant
iPod, and I've already got a couple of those, and I can put them in my
shirt pocket.

That's me in a nutshell. *Shoulder shrug* BFD....and "meh" suits it to
a t.
Jobs will sell a bezillion and I might end up with one waaaaaaaay down
the road. (I still don't own an iPod Touch (my kid does) or an iPhone)

Someone else mentioned the smell of a book. I'm there. I really like
books. My dad, as an accountant, had a client who was a genuine book
binder. As a kid, I used to love to watch the people cutting these
pieces of leather and then stamping gold leaf letters on the freshly
made covers. Then gilding the edges, which still amazes me to no end.
That place had a scent which I will never forget.
I have most of the books I like in hard cover. I seldom buy new, and I
would rather not read paperbacks. I have all of Vonnegut, Hawkins and
Le Carré (David John Moore Cornwell) an many others in prime
condition. I'm still looking for Ken Kesey's travelogue in hard cover.

I think it was The Swingman who made a point about being able to read
in the dark whilst the missus sleeps...and auto shut-off, those are
valid points. So I'm not baling on the idea, I'm just not horny enough
to drop the bucks. ( I would want a loaded one...and that's the same
money as some Festool kinda stuff....)

"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
news:300120101004293926%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderst one.ca...
In article , Swingman
wrote:

According to Dvorak, et al, in "Cranky Geeks" this week, Adobe is dying
to get flash onto the iPad, but the megalomaniac Jobs will have none of
it.

Dvorak aside, Flash is an abomination. H.264 and/or HTML 5 will
hopefully push it into the pit it deserves to live in.

I recently had to order some items by phone because the website kept
freezing. Infact I could only research the items on an old site that ran
glacially slow. When discussing this problem with the lady on the phone she
said tha the problem had started six weeks ago and their "webguy" couldn't
figure out the problem. They were worried because of all the complaints and
decreased sales.

I asked her if they had any design work done on their website recently. And,
of course, the "image overhaul" got done just before the problems started.
And these geniuses did not make the connection. Duhhhh......

I mentioned that I got some error messages concerning Flash. I told her a
couple Flash horror stories. She had never heard of Flash before. I also
told her that many designers were in love with Flash and were ****ing people
off all over the place. And not to expect them to be honest about it. She
was frantically writing notes and was going to take it to her boss. The boss
was getting upset that the web people were not solving the problem.

A classic example of an artsy fartsy designer screwing it up for everybody.
Hopefully they will take this"web designer" out and shoot him. The world
will be a better place for all of us.

On 1/30/2010 1:41 PM, Phisherman wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:04:29 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In , Swingman
wrote:

According to Dvorak, et al, in "Cranky Geeks" this week, Adobe is dying
to get flash onto the iPad, but the megalomaniac Jobs will have none of it.

Dvorak aside, Flash is an abomination. H.264 and/or HTML 5 will
hopefully push it into the pit it deserves to live in.


I dont think the pdf format is going away, it is the standard document
format. I have serious doubts the iPad will make it, Apple set the
price too high (again).

The price will fall. Today the iPhone can be had for $99, down from $599
when originally released.

You're right about pdf format. I love pdf for its 'portability' in my
business.

A couple of years ago all of our invoices were sent and received via FAX.

I'd say that 98%+ are now done via e-mail in pdf format.

And with a free app like BullZip:

http://www.bullzip.com/products/pdf/info.php

.... it is even easier to "pdf" documents, maps, plans, invoices,
proposals, etc.

Sure makes "doing business" easier, quicker, and a damn sight more
efficient.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Lee Michaels wrote:
"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
news:300120101004293926%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderst one.ca...
In article , Swingman
wrote:

According to Dvorak, et al, in "Cranky Geeks" this week, Adobe is
dying to get flash onto the iPad, but the megalomaniac Jobs will
have none of it.

Dvorak aside, Flash is an abomination. H.264 and/or HTML 5 will
hopefully push it into the pit it deserves to live in.

I recently had to order some items by phone because the website kept
freezing. Infact I could only research the items on an old site that
ran glacially slow. When discussing this problem with the lady on the
phone she said tha the problem had started six weeks ago and their
"webguy" couldn't figure out the problem. They were worried because
of all the complaints and decreased sales.

I asked her if they had any design work done on their website
recently. And, of course, the "image overhaul" got done just before
the problems started. And these geniuses did not make the connection.
Duhhhh......

I mentioned that I got some error messages concerning Flash. I told
her a couple Flash horror stories. She had never heard of Flash
before. I also told her that many designers were in love with Flash
and were ****ing people off all over the place. And not to expect
them to be honest about it. She was frantically writing notes and was
going to take it to her boss. The boss was getting upset that the web
people were not solving the problem.

A classic example of an artsy fartsy designer screwing it up for
everybody. Hopefully they will take this"web designer" out and shoot
him. The world will be a better place for all of us.

Far as I'm concerned Adobe is the antichrist for foisting Flash and the PDF
and Postscript off on an unsuspecting world, but that ship has sailed,
they've won, and any viable system has to be able to cope with them in the
modern world. Maybe Osama will fly a plane into them or something but until
that happens we're stuck with their crap.

On Jan 30, 5:13*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 1/30/2010 1:41 PM, Phisherman wrote:





On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:04:29 -0600, Dave Balderstone
*wrote:

In , Swingman
*wrote:

According to Dvorak, et al, in "Cranky Geeks" this week, Adobe is dying
to get flash onto the iPad, but the megalomaniac Jobs will have none of it.

Dvorak aside, Flash is an abomination. H.264 and/or HTML 5 will
hopefully push it into the pit it deserves to live in.

I dont think the pdf format is going away, it is the standard document
format. *I have serious doubts the iPad will make it, Apple set the
price too high (again).

The price will fall. Today the iPhone can be had for $99, down from $599
when originally released.

You're right about pdf format. I love pdf for its 'portability' in my
business.

A couple of years ago all of our invoices were sent and received via FAX.

I'd say that 98%+ are now done via e-mail in pdf format.

And with a free app like BullZip:

http://www.bullzip.com/products/pdf/info.php

... it is even easier to "pdf" documents, maps, plans, invoices,
proposals, etc.

Sure makes "doing business" easier, quicker, and a damn sight more
efficient.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

All my Mac's will allow you to 'print' to .pdf. Handy as a bag of
chips/pocket on a shirt.
PDF in vector mode are far more reliable than any of the 100 .eps
formats. It has made my workflow from Vectorworks to my CNC seamless.

On 1/30/2010 5:59 PM, Robatoy wrote:

All my Mac's will allow you to 'print' to .pdf. Handy as a bag of
chips/pocket on a shirt.
PDF in vector mode are far more reliable than any of the 100 .eps
formats. It has made my workflow from Vectorworks to my CNC seamless.

Another workflow expediter is my wireless Brother printer that will
"copy" to pdf format and send it via wireless to any computer on the
network ... handy for those faxes that come in and need to be e-mailed
to someone else.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Jan 30, 7:04*pm, Swingman wrote:
On 1/30/2010 5:59 PM, Robatoy wrote:

All my Mac's will allow you to 'print' to .pdf. Handy as a bag of
chips/pocket on a shirt.
PDF in vector mode are far more reliable than any of the 100 .eps
formats. It has made my workflow from Vectorworks to my CNC seamless.

Another workflow expediter is my wireless Brother printer that will
"copy" to pdf format and send it via wireless to any computer on the
network ... handy for those faxes that come in and need to be e-mailed
to someone else.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Indeedie. PDF's have simplified my life reliably, effectively and
these days justabout anybody can open them.
Well done Adobe.
I cannot say that I am too impressed with Adobe in other areas, but
that is for another thread.
hint: I own all current licenses for Illustrator and Photoshop...but
for my macs. Now that my CNC has pushed me into running PC gear, do
you think those Adobe people would simply issue me a couple of
licenses so that I can run my paid-for software on the platform of my
choice?

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:04:29 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
scrawled the following:

In article , Swingman
wrote:

According to Dvorak, et al, in "Cranky Geeks" this week, Adobe is dying
to get flash onto the iPad, but the megalomaniac Jobs will have none of it.

Dvorak aside, Flash is an abomination. H.264 and/or HTML 5 will
hopefully push it into the pit it deserves to live in.

Small Flash animations are fine. Flash sites suck the big one.

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:29:11 -0500, the infamous "J. Clarke"
scrawled the following:

Lee Michaels wrote:
"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
news:300120101004293926%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderst one.ca...
In article , Swingman
wrote:

According to Dvorak, et al, in "Cranky Geeks" this week, Adobe is
dying to get flash onto the iPad, but the megalomaniac Jobs will
have none of it.

Dvorak aside, Flash is an abomination. H.264 and/or HTML 5 will
hopefully push it into the pit it deserves to live in.

I recently had to order some items by phone because the website kept
freezing. Infact I could only research the items on an old site that
ran glacially slow. When discussing this problem with the lady on the
phone she said tha the problem had started six weeks ago and their
"webguy" couldn't figure out the problem. They were worried because
of all the complaints and decreased sales.

I asked her if they had any design work done on their website
recently. And, of course, the "image overhaul" got done just before
the problems started. And these geniuses did not make the connection.
Duhhhh......

I mentioned that I got some error messages concerning Flash. I told
her a couple Flash horror stories. She had never heard of Flash
before. I also told her that many designers were in love with Flash
and were ****ing people off all over the place. And not to expect
them to be honest about it. She was frantically writing notes and was
going to take it to her boss. The boss was getting upset that the web
people were not solving the problem.

A classic example of an artsy fartsy designer screwing it up for
everybody. Hopefully they will take this"web designer" out and shoot
him. The world will be a better place for all of us.

Far as I'm concerned Adobe is the antichrist for foisting Flash and the PDF
and Postscript off on an unsuspecting world,

....and then charge an arm and _both_ legs for use of their tools to
work with 'em...


but that ship has sailed,
they've won, and any viable system has to be able to cope with them in the
modern world. Maybe Osama will fly a plane into them or something but until
that happens we're stuck with their crap.

They're the Micro$oft of graphics, though their products do work after
a monstrous vertical cliff of learning. I hate to go from Photoshop to
GIMP, but I may in the next computer. I doubt Adobe will allow me to
move the CS over to Win7, even if M$ does.

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On 2010-01-30 14:41:14 -0500, Phisherman said:

I dont think the pdf format is going away, it is the standard document
format. I have serious doubts the iPad will make it, Apple set the
price too high (again).

Uh, PDF is NOT Flash.

Yes, PDF is firmly entrenched. It's revolutionized the industry I'm in.
Where we once loaded files on disc and sent them to a prep house to be
output to film to be MAILED to printers and publications or the like
while shlepping printouts to our clients for approvals, we now just
send PDFs to both.

Which really sucks for the prep houses... who've largely disappeared.

Flash still bites the big one. (Go, HTML5!)

On 2010-01-30 19:59:35 -0500, Robatoy said:

Now that my CNC has pushed me into running PC gear, do
you think those Adobe people would simply issue me a couple of
licenses so that I can run my paid-for software on the platform of my
choice?

Anything can be had for a price... Adobe will tell you what that price
is but it's likely to be full boat when it's cross-platform, unless you
surrender your Mac licenses.

On 2010-01-30 19:26:49 -0500, Dave Balderstone
said:

PDF has its place, but the web isn't it.

Not for display online, perhaps, but it's remarkably efficient for
transporting gobs of data, even it that data began as TIFFs. I was able
to download a 400+ -page book yesterday, OCR it, and have a searchable
file in about a half-hour. How long would it have taken to page through
a paper document? How long would it have taken to page through the PDF?
A lot longer than the searchable PDF, though the paper document would
have have been quicker than non-searchable PDF.

But enough of this -- let's go make sawdust!

Steve wrote:
On 2010-01-30 19:26:49 -0500, Dave Balderstone
said:

PDF has its place, but the web isn't it.

Not for display online, perhaps, but it's remarkably efficient for
transporting gobs of data, even it that data began as TIFFs. I was
able to download a 400+ -page book yesterday, OCR it, and have a
searchable file in about a half-hour. How long would it have taken to
page through a paper document? How long would it have taken to page
through the PDF? A lot longer than the searchable PDF, though the
paper document would have have been quicker than non-searchable PDF.

But enough of this -- let's go make sawdust!

Broadband has made PDFs much more useful, but a lot of us have not-fond
memories of having do download some immense file over a 300 baud connection,
in its entirety, before we could begin looking for the one lousy line of
information we needed.

And OCR? That was worthless until desktops hit Cray speed.

Robert Haar wrote:
On 1/29/10 10:54 PM, "Mark & Juanita" wrote:

Some other things not so cool:
1) No flash support

This is a good thing. Flash should die and be replaced by HTML 5.

When the browsers that most people use support it then perhaps it will come
into widespread use.

2) Only allows you to run a single application at a time

Not completely true. On the iPhone, built in apps do multi-task, just
not third party ones.

Didn't those morons learn anything from the pre-OSX Mac?

More like an iPhone on steroids than a real computer.

It doesn't seem targeted at that. It is described as a new class of
device, not a smart phone and not a laptop.

Now it may be that this new class doesn't meet your needs. I'm not
convinced that I want one myself. But recognize that Apple is
pitching this as something different.

But what? If they can't tell you what it does for you in a single sentence
then they're fighting an uphill battle. So far the only simple summary I
can think of is "ipad--it looks cool".

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 23:13:06 -0500, the infamous "J. Clarke"
scrawled the following:

Steve wrote:
On 2010-01-30 19:26:49 -0500, Dave Balderstone
said:

PDF has its place, but the web isn't it.

Not for display online, perhaps, but it's remarkably efficient for
transporting gobs of data, even it that data began as TIFFs. I was
able to download a 400+ -page book yesterday, OCR it, and have a
searchable file in about a half-hour. How long would it have taken to
page through a paper document? How long would it have taken to page
through the PDF? A lot longer than the searchable PDF, though the
paper document would have have been quicker than non-searchable PDF.

But enough of this -- let's go make sawdust!

Broadband has made PDFs much more useful, but a lot of us have not-fond
memories of having do download some immense file over a 300 baud connection,
in its entirety, before we could begin looking for the one lousy line of
information we needed.

I started with a screaming fast modem, 1,200 baud. I remember
marveling at the zoomy 1-character-per-second speed, yelonblk text
showing on the huge 14" monitor! Thank Crom that's no longer the
norm. Can you imagine having to download these huge spams at that
speed, paying for phone time the whole way? There'd have been
lynchings. (IMHO, there still should be.)


And OCR? That was worthless until desktops hit Cray speed.

AFAIC, it still is. Searching for stray characters it misses takes
longer than retyping the page.

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On Jan 31, 10:22*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:

*So far the only simple summary I
can think of is "ipad--it looks cool".

That's all it takes to make it desirable. Jobs will sell millions.
It's all about style.
But, I think it missed one very important feature. Can't stick in a
DVD and watch a movie.

Robert Haar wrote in
:

*snip*


It doesn't seem targeted at that. It is described as a new class of
device, not a smart phone and not a laptop.

Now it may be that this new class doesn't meet your needs. I'm not
convinced that I want one myself. But recognize that Apple is pitching
this as something different.


Sorta like something a person can carry around with them and keep track of
their appointments, contacts, and business notes? Look Apple's invented
the PDA!

Sure would be interested if it was Newton reincarnated. Sounds like it's
got a lot of the features I'd include if I could redesign it.

Puckdropper

Robatoy wrote in news:6cd344ea-36c7-4e65-b9b8-
:

On Jan 31, 10:22*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:

*So far the only simple summary I
can think of is "ipad--it looks cool".

That's all it takes to make it desirable. Jobs will sell millions.
It's all about style.
But, I think it missed one very important feature. Can't stick in a
DVD and watch a movie.

What's a DVD?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Han wrote in news:Xns9D119002E91F8ikkezelf@
207.246.207.190:


What's a DVD?


It's a small round disc containing a passifier for many adults. It also
works for kids too, but only for a short time. Usage is simple: Put it in
a device called a DVD player and they will sit and watch for hours at a
time.

Puckdropper

Robert Haar wrote:

On 1/29/10 10:54 PM, "Mark & Juanita" wrote:

Some other things not so cool:
1) No flash support

This is a good thing. Flash should die and be replaced by HTML 5.

That's a fine sentiment. But if someone who happens to own an iPad *now*
(or when it really ships) and wants to view a web page *now* with content
that is important to them *now* that just happens to include a flash vid or
other flash content, that's more than a bit of a problem, isn't it?


2) Only allows you to run a single application at a time

Not completely true. On the iPhone, built in apps do multi-task, just not
third party ones.


Again, this is all well and good if everything one is wanting to do
happens to be built-in.


More like an iPhone on steroids than a real computer.

It doesn't seem targeted at that. It is described as a new class of
device, not a smart phone and not a laptop.

Now it may be that this new class doesn't meet your needs. I'm not
convinced that I want one myself. But recognize that Apple is pitching
this as something different.

Then they need to start making a case for how this new wonderful thing
that doesn't do what people expect is really better because of the different
things it does do. Hopefully for Apple, those different things people can
do are things that people want to do.




--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham

On 1/31/2010 4:28 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:

Given the chatter over the past few years about how Apple needs to make
a tablet, I wonder why nobody else has stepped into the gap and started
making and marketing them? It's not like the Interweb hasn't been full
of pundits and bloggers screaming about the need for such a product...

Maybe they were waiting for a company that actually knows how to
innovate to create a market they can try to grab a small piece of?

IMO, this guy pretty well hits the nail on the head:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/31/e...e-ipad-launch/

As I said in another post, building on what went before is one of
Apple's strong suits, but much better explained above.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 2010-01-31 17:07:39 -0500, Mark & Juanita said:

But if someone who happens to own an iPad *now* (or when it really
ships) and wants to view a web page *now* with content that is
important to them *now* that just happens to include a flash vid or
other flash content, that's more than a bit of a problem, isn't it?

You don't have to wait for your iPad to see video without the noxious
stench of Flash. HTML5 specs implementation by browser:

http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Implemen...n_Web_browsers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...engines_(HTML5)

Steve wrote:
On 2010-01-31 17:07:39 -0500, Mark & Juanita
said:

But if someone who happens to own an iPad *now* (or when it really
ships) and wants to view a web page *now* with content that is
important to them *now* that just happens to include a flash vid or
other flash content, that's more than a bit of a problem, isn't it?

You don't have to wait for your iPad to see video without the noxious
stench of Flash. HTML5 specs implementation by browser:

http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Implemen...n_Web_browsers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...engines_(HTML5)

That's nice. So what if the video you need to look at is not in HTML5?