I have been reading the Sketchup posts with interest. I got a question for
you Sketchup enthusiasts.

How appropriate would Sketchup be for metal projects to be fabricated by a
welding shop? Specificaly projects made mostly with square tubing.

Their would need to be detailed information. This would include some odd
angles, very specific lengths and positions of both holes and attachments
welded to the subassemblies.

The 3 D perspective would be nice but not neccessary.

Comments? Suggestions?

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

I have been reading the Sketchup posts with interest. I got a question
for you Sketchup enthusiasts.

How appropriate would Sketchup be for metal projects to be fabricated by a
welding shop? Specificaly projects made mostly with square tubing.

Their would need to be detailed information. This would include some odd
angles, very specific lengths and positions of both holes and attachments
welded to the subassemblies.

The 3 D perspective would be nice but not neccessary.

Comments? Suggestions?




I see no problems in that application.

As far as accuracy, in inches you can go to .0001" or in 1/64" in fractions
of an inch. In mm, .0001mm

3D perspective would be automatic.

Just remember to draw objects/components, not line drawings.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

I have been reading the Sketchup posts with interest. I got a question
for you Sketchup enthusiasts.

How appropriate would Sketchup be for metal projects to be fabricated by
a welding shop? Specificaly projects made mostly with square tubing.

Their would need to be detailed information. This would include some odd
angles, very specific lengths and positions of both holes and attachments
welded to the subassemblies.

The 3 D perspective would be nice but not neccessary.

Comments? Suggestions?




I see no problems in that application.

As far as accuracy, in inches you can go to .0001" or in 1/64" in
fractions of an inch. In mm, .0001mm

3D perspective would be automatic.

Just remember to draw objects/components, not line drawings.

How about dimensioning? I would need the lengths to be very clear.

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

I have been reading the Sketchup posts with interest. I got a question
for you Sketchup enthusiasts.

How appropriate would Sketchup be for metal projects to be fabricated by
a welding shop? Specificaly projects made mostly with square tubing.

Their would need to be detailed information. This would include some
odd angles, very specific lengths and positions of both holes and
attachments welded to the subassemblies.

The 3 D perspective would be nice but not neccessary.

Comments? Suggestions?




I see no problems in that application.

As far as accuracy, in inches you can go to .0001" or in 1/64" in
fractions of an inch. In mm, .0001mm

3D perspective would be automatic.

Just remember to draw objects/components, not line drawings.

How about dimensioning? I would need the lengths to be very clear.

Not a problem, Sketchup has semi-automatic dimensioning. You point out the
constraints Sketchup fills in the measurements. Pick a line and Sketchup
will dimension that line. Pick two points and Sketchup will determine the
distance between those points.

As mentioned in my other thread you can modify dimension results to outside
the extension lines if the results will not fit between them. You can also
modify the size of the font used.

Lee Michaels wrote:
I have been reading the Sketchup posts with interest. I got a question for
you Sketchup enthusiasts.

How appropriate would Sketchup be for metal projects to be fabricated by a
welding shop? Specificaly projects made mostly with square tubing.

Their would need to be detailed information. This would include some odd
angles, very specific lengths and positions of both holes and attachments
welded to the subassemblies.

The 3 D perspective would be nice but not neccessary.

Comments? Suggestions?






Ask question at rec.crafts.metalworking.

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

I have been reading the Sketchup posts with interest. I got a question
for you Sketchup enthusiasts.

How appropriate would Sketchup be for metal projects to be fabricated by a
welding shop? Specificaly projects made mostly with square tubing.

Their would need to be detailed information. This would include some odd
angles, very specific lengths and positions of both holes and attachments
welded to the subassemblies.

The 3 D perspective would be nice but not neccessary.

Comments? Suggestions?

It's not a drafting tool. You'll bend over backwards to make it produce
working drawings. Sketchup is more a modeling and visualization tool that
happens to place a few dimensions and notes, sometimes usefully, sometimes
not. It doesn't do angular dimensions, for example.

On Feb 26, 12:57*pm, "MikeWhy" wrote:
"Lee Michaels" wrote in message

...



I have been reading the Sketchup posts with interest. *I got a question
for you Sketchup enthusiasts.

How appropriate would Sketchup be for metal projects to be fabricated by a
welding shop? *Specificaly projects made mostly with square tubing.

Their would need to be detailed information. *This would include some odd
angles, very specific lengths and positions of both holes and attachments
welded to the subassemblies.

The 3 D perspective would be nice but not neccessary.

Comments? *Suggestions?

It's not a drafting tool. You'll bend over backwards to make it produce
working drawings. Sketchup is more a modeling and visualization tool that
happens to place a few dimensions and notes, sometimes usefully, sometimes
not. It doesn't do angular dimensions, for example.

Egggggzactly. NOT a drafting tool.

"MikeWhy" wrote in message
...
"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

I have been reading the Sketchup posts with interest. I got a question
for you Sketchup enthusiasts.

How appropriate would Sketchup be for metal projects to be fabricated by
a welding shop? Specificaly projects made mostly with square tubing.

Their would need to be detailed information. This would include some odd
angles, very specific lengths and positions of both holes and attachments
welded to the subassemblies.

The 3 D perspective would be nice but not neccessary.

Comments? Suggestions?

It's not a drafting tool. You'll bend over backwards to make it produce
working drawings. Sketchup is more a modeling and visualization tool that
happens to place a few dimensions and notes, sometimes usefully, sometimes
not. It doesn't do angular dimensions, for example.



Ummm My Sketchup does angular dimensions.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Feb 26, 12:57 pm, "MikeWhy" wrote:
"Lee Michaels" wrote in message

...





Egggggzactly. NOT a drafting tool.


What is it you can do on a CAD program that you cannot on Sketchup?

"Lee Michaels" wrote

I have been reading the Sketchup posts with interest. I got a question
for you Sketchup enthusiasts.

How appropriate would Sketchup be for metal projects to be fabricated by a
welding shop? Specificaly projects made mostly with square tubing.

Their would need to be detailed information. This would include some odd
angles, very specific lengths and positions of both holes and attachments
welded to the subassemblies.

The 3 D perspective would be nice but not neccessary.

Comments? Suggestions?

Just give it a try and see how it works for you ... occasionally use SU to
send drawings to machine shops for beam/truss hangers that we need to have
fabricated for embedding into foundations.

Admittedly very simple fabrications, the one below was drawn on my laptop,
real time on site, while the Engineer watched, and the pdf export was sent
using my cell phone as a tethered modem ... a couple of years back what took
30 minutes would have taken a week, and cost a helluva lot more.

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/SaddleHanger.pdf

Basically, for 2D shop drawings like this I haven't found anything that I
can't do quicker with SU than with my CAD programs, and, as you say, the
added and easy 3D ability is just a mouse move away and an added plus.

BTW, the machine shop didn't blink an eye ... then again, I'm always amazed
to find a machine shop that actually does business via e-mail and even knows
what a pdf file is.

YMMV ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Feb 26, 12:57 pm, "MikeWhy" wrote:
"Lee Michaels" wrote in message

...





Egggggzactly. NOT a drafting tool.


What is it you can do on a CAD program that you cannot on Sketchup?

Where to start? Working drawing sets. Bills of Material. Parametric
configurations. Multiple parts configurations. Editable feature history.
Weldments. Sheet metal. Mate constraints. ... SU is a minimal set for
defining and manipulating simple, static surface models. It is what it is,
and it's good for what it is, but it helps sometimes to keep in perspective
what it is not. What you sketch is what you get, sometimes less. Circles are
pie wedges; curves are straightline segments. When you change a dimension,
the dimension text changes, not the underlying object. You glue things
together, or set them next to each other, they don't move to maintain the
relationship. You sweep a shape, and that's the shape it will ever and
always be; editing the shape that defined the sweep doesn't change anything.
Is any of that a condemnation? I don't think so. "Minimum" usable subset is
still a pretty high bar for getting useful things done.

So, about those angle dimensions. How?

"MikeWhy" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote in message



What is it you can do on a CAD program that you cannot on Sketchup?

Where to start? Working drawing sets. Bills of Material. Parametric
configurations. Multiple parts configurations. Editable feature history.
Weldments. Sheet metal. Mate constraints. ... SU is a minimal set for
defining and manipulating simple, static surface models. It is what it is,
and it's good for what it is, but it helps sometimes to keep in
perspective what it is not. What you sketch is what you get, sometimes
less. Circles are pie wedges; curves are straightline segments. When you
change a dimension, the dimension text changes, not the underlying object.
You glue things together, or set them next to each other, they don't move
to maintain the relationship. You sweep a shape, and that's the shape it
will ever and always be; editing the shape that defined the sweep doesn't
change anything. Is any of that a condemnation? I don't think so.
"Minimum" usable subset is still a pretty high bar for getting useful
things done.

Well this being a ww group I was thinking more in lines with wood working
projects. So yes I agree a CAD program absolutely does more outside this
area.

As for as abilities, I have not checked all the plugins and scripst that are
available however there is a dimension plug-in called Driving Dimensions
that let you edit the dimension and that also changes the length of object
that it deminsions.

I am not sure what you are talking about concerning glueing things or
setting them next to each other and not maintaining the relationship. If
you make them into components and make the components into a group they
stay together until you edit or explode them. I may be way off base here.


So, about those angle dimensions. How?

Search for the script/plugin " dim_angle.rb ". Copy it into the Plug-in's
folder and the next time you reload Sketchup 7 ;ppl imder "Tools" and you
will find a new command called Angular Dimension. Choose that command, pick
3 points, and you will get a angular dimension typical of what you might
expect.
Keep in mind however that on this particular dimention that if you chang eht
angle of the object you will also have todo the angular dimension command.

Scroll down the page a bit until you see the file I mentione above. Click
the file name and it will open a page of script. Right click that page and
"Save page As", and save it in the plug ins folder. Besure to add the .rb
extension to the name if it does not do so automatically.
http://www.crai.archi.fr/RubyLibrary...m_arc_page.htm

There are literally hundreds of scripts and plug ins that make Sketchup act
more like a CAD program.

On Feb 26, 1:56*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message

...
On Feb 26, 12:57 pm, "MikeWhy" wrote:

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message

.. .

Egggggzactly. NOT a drafting tool.

* What is it you can do on a CAD program that you cannot on Sketchup?

Here's a partial look of the tool kit. Those modules live on another
monitor, but I have dragged them over here to give you some
indication. The pull-down in the centre are all tools/commands missing
in SU...
http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=Palettes.jpg

Keep in mind, that most single tool icons can/will launch a dialog
box, something like this base cabinet parametric. Those exist for just
about any kind of cabinets and commercial/office furniture.
http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=Picture4.png

Another example of a parametric. One of several dozen different stair
designs.
http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=Picture5.png

...and then there is the rendering aka pretty picturesit will create if
called upon. (By a customer who can't decide what wood grain to go
with in her kitchen.)

I could be more specific, but I don't have that kind of time.

r

"Leon" wrote

Well this being a ww group I was thinking more in lines with wood working
projects.

Careful now ... the bait is top water at six o'clock and getting close.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Feb 26, 1:56 pm, "Leon" wrote:


Here's a partial look of the tool kit. Those modules live on another
monitor, but I have dragged them over here to give you some
indication. The pull-down in the centre are all tools/commands missing
in SU...
http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=Palettes.jpg


Ok, but I am talking from a ww project point of view. I do realize that CAD
programs have lots more tools, I'v been using a bunch since 1997 myself.
;~)




Keep in mind, that most single tool icons can/will launch a dialog
box, something like this base cabinet parametric. Those exist for just
about any kind of cabinets and commercial/office furniture.
http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=Picture4.png

Another example of a parametric. One of several dozen different stair
designs.
http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=Picture5.png


Take a poke here,
http://www.crai.archi.fr/RubyLibrary..._sections.html ther are a
bunch of plug ins that make Sketch up more fashonable. ;~) there are
several "stair" plug ins.



...and then there is the rendering aka pretty picturesit will create if
called upon. (By a customer who can't decide what wood grain to go
with in her kitchen.)

Sketch can do that with the correct chosen material.



I could be more specific, but I don't have that kind of time.

Understood

r

On Feb 26, 5:41*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message

...
On Feb 26, 1:56 pm, "Leon" wrote:

Here's a partial look of *the tool kit. Those modules live on another
monitor, but I have dragged them over here to give you some
indication. The pull-down in the centre are all tools/commands missing
in SU...http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o...=view&current=...

Ok, but I am talking from a ww project point of view. *I do realize that CAD
programs have lots more tools, I'v been using a bunch since 1997 myself.
;~)

Keep in mind, that most single tool icons can/will launch a dialog
box, something like this base cabinet parametric. Those exist for just
about any kind of cabinets and commercial/office furniture.http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o...=view&current=...

Another example of a parametric. One of several dozen different stair
designs.http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o...=view&current=...

Take a poke here,http://www.crai.archi.fr/RubyLibrary...tions.htmlther are a
bunch of plug ins that make Sketch up more fashonable. *;~) *there are
several "stair" plug ins.

..and then there is the rendering aka pretty picturesit will create if
called upon. (By a customer who can't decide what wood grain to go
with in her kitchen.)

Sketch can do that with the correct chosen material.

I could be more specific, but I don't have that kind of time.

Understood

r

Oh.. then there is the interface to this program for my router:
http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=Picture6.png

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Feb 26, 5:41 pm, "Leon" wrote:

Oh.. then there is the interface to this program for my router:
http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=Picture6.png


Router Shmouter! Sketchup interfaces my PRINTER!!! ;~)

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:52:34 -0600, "Leon"
wrote:


"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
.. .

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

I have been reading the Sketchup posts with interest. I got a question
for you Sketchup enthusiasts.

How appropriate would Sketchup be for metal projects to be fabricated by
a welding shop? Specificaly projects made mostly with square tubing.

Their would need to be detailed information. This would include some
odd angles, very specific lengths and positions of both holes and
attachments welded to the subassemblies.

The 3 D perspective would be nice but not neccessary.

Comments? Suggestions?




I see no problems in that application.

As far as accuracy, in inches you can go to .0001" or in 1/64" in
fractions of an inch. In mm, .0001mm

3D perspective would be automatic.

Just remember to draw objects/components, not line drawings.

How about dimensioning? I would need the lengths to be very clear.

Not a problem, Sketchup has semi-automatic dimensioning. You point out the
constraints Sketchup fills in the measurements. Pick a line and Sketchup
will dimension that line. Pick two points and Sketchup will determine the
distance between those points.

....will it scale a drawing from one reference? Like, say, I draw a
cabinet and then set the dimension of one of the rails? I fiddled
with the tutorial the other nite and was surprised at the
accessability...if can set the deminsion of my first piece and the
program will scale the remainder, well, I'm in!

cg

As mentioned in my other thread you can modify dimension results to outside
the extension lines if the results will not fit between them. You can also
modify the size of the font used.

"Charlie Groh" wrote in message
...
Snip


...will it scale a drawing from one reference? Like, say, I draw a
cabinet and then set the dimension of one of the rails? I fiddled
with the tutorial the other nite and was surprised at the
accessability...if can set the deminsion of my first piece and the
program will scale the remainder, well, I'm in!

If I am not mistaken there are scripts that will do that.. Swingman?

Otherwise, if you draw your rail first and make it into a component and then
copy that component over to another component to eventually form a cabinet,
you can change all of the rail at the same time later on. If you want to
make several different sized rails for other cabinets you make the already
copied and completed rails "unique" so that they will no longer change when
you modify the other component rails.

Over and over I mention components, they are a very useful way to put your
cabinets together. One rail can be the basis for all rails in the drawings
regardless of size or number of sizes. Until you make a component "unique"
it will change with every modification to "like/same rail edits. Editing
one component will modify all "same copiy" components.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"MikeWhy" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote in message



What is it you can do on a CAD program that you cannot on Sketchup?

Where to start? Working drawing sets. Bills of Material. Parametric
configurations. Multiple parts configurations. Editable feature history.
Weldments. Sheet metal. Mate constraints. ... SU is a minimal set for
defining and manipulating simple, static surface models. It is what it
is, and it's good for what it is, but it helps sometimes to keep in
perspective what it is not. What you sketch is what you get, sometimes
less. Circles are pie wedges; curves are straightline segments. When you
change a dimension, the dimension text changes, not the underlying
object. You glue things together, or set them next to each other, they
don't move to maintain the relationship. You sweep a shape, and that's
the shape it will ever and always be; editing the shape that defined the
sweep doesn't change anything. Is any of that a condemnation? I don't
think so. "Minimum" usable subset is still a pretty high bar for getting
useful things done.

Well this being a ww group I was thinking more in lines with wood working
projects. So yes I agree a CAD program absolutely does more outside this
area.

First, understand that I'm not interested in selling you a bigger CAD
system. I'm doing the opposite, in fact. I'm working toward weaning myself
onto SU alone. Just answering your question directly about what's in the
other systems.

As for as abilities, I have not checked all the plugins and scripst that
are available however there is a dimension plug-in called Driving
Dimensions that let you edit the dimension and that also changes the
length of object that it deminsions.

I'll believe it when I see it. It has less to do with cleverness than having
the information on hand, after the fact in SU, to parameterize the part. I'm
speaking of SolidWorks and Inventor. They maintain the history of how the
features were made. If you extruded a profile 100", you can change that
later to something else, or edit the sketch that defines the profile.

How to answer that? Just yesterday I tried explaining why components in SU
are useful abstractions. There are different levels of understanding and
need.

I am not sure what you are talking about concerning glueing things or
setting them next to each other and not maintaining the relationship. If
you make them into components and make the components into a group they
stay together until you edit or explode them. I may be way off base here.

It comes up all the time. All the time. The bottom of this drawer sits on
the top face of that cleat, and this face of its side is parallel to that
face on that side panel. The back rail of the Morris chair rests on its
tangent point with that peg; the peg's axis is concentric with this bored
hole. The drawer face has a 1/16" gap from the face frame. When I resize or
move things about, the objects size and relocate themselves to maintain
those constraints.

Do you need it? SU isn't SW or Inventor. I'm still just trying to answer
your question.



So, about those angle dimensions. How?

Search for the script/plugin " dim_angle.rb ". Copy it into the Plug-in's
folder and the next time you reload Sketchup 7 ;ppl imder "Tools" and you
will find a new command called Angular Dimension. Choose that command,
pick 3 points, and you will get a angular dimension typical of what you
might expect.
Keep in mind however that on this particular dimention that if you chang
eht angle of the object you will also have todo the angular dimension
command.

Scroll down the page a bit until you see the file I mentione above. Click
the file name and it will open a page of script. Right click that page
and "Save page As", and save it in the plug ins folder. Besure to add the
.rb extension to the name if it does not do so automatically.
http://www.crai.archi.fr/RubyLibrary...m_arc_page.htm

There are literally hundreds of scripts and plug ins that make Sketchup
act more like a CAD program.

Thanks. And just how hard is that to do natively? There are big things
missing, the stuff I mentioned above. That's cool; implementing them is
magnitudes more complex than what SU is meant to be. But there are niggling
little things, like the angle dimensions, that can be but aren't. Still, you
have to understand that I'm not criticizing SU, and not asking you to be its
apologist. It is what it is.

MikeWhy wrote:
"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

I have been reading the Sketchup posts with interest. I got a
question for you Sketchup enthusiasts.

How appropriate would Sketchup be for metal projects to be fabricated
by a welding shop? Specificaly projects made mostly with square tubing.

Their would need to be detailed information. This would include some
odd angles, very specific lengths and positions of both holes and
attachments welded to the subassemblies.

The 3 D perspective would be nice but not neccessary.

Comments? Suggestions?

It's not a drafting tool. You'll bend over backwards to make it produce
working drawings. Sketchup is more a modeling and visualization tool
that happens to place a few dimensions and notes, sometimes usefully,
sometimes not. It doesn't do angular dimensions, for example.


One of the thing that I could never get use to in version 6 was the
three dimension presentation. Each time I used it my edges were in
different plans.

With version 7 this seems to be corrected and you can make some pretty
good old fashion 2d drawings.

"Charlie Groh" wrote in message
...

...will it scale a drawing from one reference? Like, say, I draw a
cabinet and then set the dimension of one of the rails? I fiddled
with the tutorial the other nite and was surprised at the
accessability...if can set the deminsion of my first piece and the
program will scale the remainder, well, I'm in!

Yes. Use the tape measure tool to measure known distance. Immediately type
the value it should be. Voila.

"MikeWhy" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote in message
...
Snip


Thanks. And just how hard is that to do natively? There are big things
missing, the stuff I mentioned above. That's cool; implementing them is
magnitudes more complex than what SU is meant to be. But there are
niggling little things, like the angle dimensions, that can be but aren't.
Still, you have to understand that I'm not criticizing SU, and not asking
you to be its apologist. It is what it is.



I look at Sketch up as more of a "Kit", modify to your likes and needs
programs. For me, it does 99.9% of what AutoCAD LT did in the last 12 years
and adds the ability to assemble and disassemble a project in 3D
perspective.

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:51:51 -0600, "MikeWhy"
wrote:

"Charlie Groh" wrote in message
.. .

...will it scale a drawing from one reference? Like, say, I draw a
cabinet and then set the dimension of one of the rails? I fiddled
with the tutorial the other nite and was surprised at the
accessability...if can set the deminsion of my first piece and the
program will scale the remainder, well, I'm in!

Yes. Use the tape measure tool to measure known distance. Immediately type
the value it should be. Voila.


....I would say just the word "dude!"...hey, maybe that *is* good
enough. I'll give you guys an update in a couple of months...LOL...

cg

"Leon" wrote

programs. For me, it does 99.9% of what AutoCAD LT did in the last 12
years and adds the ability to assemble and disassemble a project in 3D
perspective.

Damn, I never thought I'd see you switch from AutoCAD LT to anything else!

Just reaffirms my long held contention that SU is an excellent, cost
effective, woodworker's tool providing you're not so closed minded as to let
preconceived notions/bias get in the way.

Then again, the first three times I downloaded SU, then wiped it, I never
thought in my wildest dreams I'd be using it, and it alone, to build a $300K
budget house. That house is now well on it's way and the foundation,
framing, electrical, plumbing, and HVAC were all bid from, and will be
built, based solely on SU 2D and 3D drawings.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote

programs. For me, it does 99.9% of what AutoCAD LT did in the last 12
years and adds the ability to assemble and disassemble a project in 3D
perspective.

Damn, I never thought I'd see you switch from AutoCAD LT to anything else!

Just reaffirms my long held contention that SU is an excellent, cost
effective, woodworker's tool providing you're not so closed minded as to
let preconceived notions/bias get in the way.

Then again, the first three times I downloaded SU, then wiped it, I never
thought in my wildest dreams I'd be using it, and it alone, to build a
$300K budget house. That house is now well on it's way and the foundation,
framing, electrical, plumbing, and HVAC were all bid from, and will be
built, based solely on SU 2D and 3D drawings.


I did the install and remove a few time my self. IMHO the program was a bit
too cartoonist in the earlier versions. Version 6 was the one that
seriously kept my interest and Version 7 seems to have addressed several
behind the scenes problems.
Yeah, I think AutoCAD LT has out grown its usefulness, price wise, for me.
While the CAD programs do indeed have more tool commands and icons I feel
the Sketchup has pretty much simplified those commands into a far smaller
group that pretty much accomplish the same thing 99% of the time. I would
like to see a few more dimension commands and or options to tweak the a bit
more.

On Feb 26, 11:25*pm, "Swingman" wrote:
"Leon" *wrote

programs. *For me, it does 99.9% of what AutoCAD LT did in the last 12
years and adds the ability to assemble and disassemble a project in 3D
perspective.

Damn, I never thought I'd see you switch from AutoCAD LT to anything else!

Just reaffirms my long held contention that SU is an excellent, cost
effective, woodworker's tool providing you're not so closed minded as to let
preconceived notions/bias get in the way.

Oh, for **** sakes. Just because people are putting the obvious SU
limitations out there for all to see, does not make them closed
minded.
You have made it clear that it works for you. Great.
But I have a company to run, in which SU has no place due to its
limitations.
I also know you weren't referring specifically to me personally as you
fully realize my mind is wide open and always eager to find newer,
better software solutions... especially when low cost/free.
But to suggest that one can build a 300K house with SU is misleading
as you fail to include the fact that YOUR ability to do so includes
your vast and well-developed skill-set. Your skill-set can build that
house without SU, IOW, what you got there is a sharper, better pencil.
Period.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Feb 26, 11:25 pm, "Swingman" wrote:
"Leon" wrote

programs. For me, it does 99.9% of what AutoCAD LT did in the last 12
years and adds the ability to assemble and disassemble a project in 3D
perspective.

Damn, I never thought I'd see you switch from AutoCAD LT to anything
else!

Just reaffirms my long held contention that SU is an excellent, cost
effective, woodworker's tool providing you're not so closed minded as to
let
preconceived notions/bias get in the way.

Oh, for **** sakes. Just because people are putting the obvious SU
limitations out there for all to see, does not make them closed
minded.
You have made it clear that it works for you. Great.
But I have a company to run, in which SU has no place due to its
limitations.
I also know you weren't referring specifically to me personally as you
fully realize my mind is wide open and always eager to find newer,
better software solutions... especially when low cost/free.
But to suggest that one can build a 300K house with SU is misleading
as you fail to include the fact that YOUR ability to do so includes
your vast and well-developed skill-set. Your skill-set can build that
house without SU, IOW, what you got there is a sharper, better pencil.
Period.

Never miss an opportunity to slobber in the public trough, eh Bubba?

It's a crying damn shame that no one here can't discuss something they find
useful without your constant, denigrating snide, input on the subject.

Kiss my ass ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Feb 27, 12:31*pm, "Swingman" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message

...



On Feb 26, 11:25 pm, "Swingman" wrote:
"Leon" wrote

programs. For me, it does 99.9% of what AutoCAD LT did in the last 12
years and adds the ability to assemble and disassemble a project in 3D
perspective.

Damn, I never thought I'd see you switch from AutoCAD LT to anything
else!

Just reaffirms my long held contention that SU is an excellent, cost
effective, woodworker's tool providing you're not so closed minded as to
let
preconceived notions/bias get in the way.

Oh, for **** sakes. Just because people are putting the obvious SU
limitations out there for all to see, does not make them closed
minded.
You have made it clear that it works for you. Great.
But I have a company to run, in which SU has no place due to its
limitations.
I also know you weren't referring specifically to me personally as you
fully realize my mind is wide open and always eager to find newer,
better software solutions... especially when low cost/free.
But to suggest that one can build a 300K house with SU is misleading
as you fail to include the fact that YOUR ability to do so includes
your vast and well-developed skill-set. Your skill-set can build that
house without SU, IOW, what you got there is a sharper, better pencil.
Period.

Never miss an opportunity to slobber in the public trough, eh Bubba?

It's a crying damn shame that no one here can't discuss something they find
useful without your constant, denigrating snide, input on the subject.

Kiss my ass ...

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

You DARE to call other people closed-minded.

You don't like to get called on your bull**** much, eh? :-)

r

On Feb 27, 9:50*am, Robatoy wrote:

But to suggest that one can build a 300K house with SU is misleading
as you fail to include the fact that YOUR ability to do so includes
your vast and well-developed skill-set. Your skill-set can build that
house without SU, IOW, what you got there is a sharper, better pencil.
Period.

You make sharper, better pencils sound like a bad thing. That's all
anybody is ever looking for - a better, sharper pencil (tool/thing/
whatever). I don't expect the pencil to be my only tool, and neither
would I expect any one program to get things done.

Someone could use almost any program to build a house. I could design
a house and do the design drawings in Photoshop.

SketchUp can be made to sit, stay and speak if someone wants to invest
the time. From the stuff you've posted it seems that you have found
something that works for you. We should all be so lucky.

R

On Feb 27, 2:07*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 27, 9:50*am, Robatoy wrote:



But to suggest that one can build a 300K house with SU is misleading
as you fail to include the fact that YOUR ability to do so includes
your vast and well-developed skill-set. Your skill-set can build that
house without SU, IOW, what you got there is a sharper, better pencil.
Period.

You make sharper, better pencils sound like a bad thing. *That's all
anybody is ever looking for - a better, sharper pencil (tool/thing/
whatever). *I don't expect the pencil to be my only tool, and neither
would I expect any one program to get things done.

I certainly don't mean to imply that it is a bad thing and I don't
think I did.


Someone could use almost any program to build a house. *I could design
a house and do the design drawings in Photoshop.

Exactly, to say that you can use SU to build a house does therefore
not validate the software but the builder, who can use anything if he
knows how to build a house in the first place.
I have 20 years and thousands upon thousands of dollars invested in my
software, yet I cannot design, much less build a boat. The software is
very capable as a tool to a boat builder, but *I* cannot design/build
a boat. Owning software with capability means dick.
If my problems are such that my selection of software DOES solve them,
then I am a happy camper. And I am.

SketchUp can be made to sit, stay and speak if someone wants to invest
the time.

SU is inadequate for my needs. That doesn't make me a bad person
*plinks away a tear*

*From the stuff you've posted it seems that you have found
something that works for you. *We should all be so lucky.

Luck didn't have much to do with it. Tenacity, hard work and some
college courses in how to interface with the rest of the planet in
terms of drawing/blueprint standards. On paper and in digital
formats. I got into a proper discipline and stayed with it. Then when
software that I could afford and could handle Non Uniform Rational
Basis Splines came on the scene I was feeling pretty damn lucky then.
Bolted onto a real rendering engine, again, the format exchange was
crucial... and now the CNC is on line, even more so.

So yes, one can build a house with SU, but will it be a better house?

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Feb 27, 2:07 pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Feb 27, 9:50 am, Robatoy wrote:


Exactly, to say that you can use SU to build a house does therefore
not validate the software but the builder, who can use anything if he
knows how to build a house in the first place.
I have 20 years and thousands upon thousands of dollars invested in my
software, yet I cannot design, much less build a boat. The software is
very capable as a tool to a boat builder, but *I* cannot design/build
a boat. Owning software with capability means dick.
If my problems are such that my selection of software DOES solve them,
then I am a happy camper. And I am.

You may be in luck with that boat, There are hundreds of design drawings of
boats/ships for Sketchup. :~)



Snip


So yes, one can build a house with SU, but will it be a better house?

Not necessirilly better or worse as the same goes for AutoCAD or the like
software.
The more in tune with the software you are the better the results of the
plans.

I think the point to designing suitable plans for building a house using
Sketchup is simply that Sketchup is quite capable of fulfilling this need.
More expensive programs that will do the same are simply more expensive
programs that do the same.

On Feb 27, 4:05*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message

...
On Feb 27, 2:07 pm, RicodJour wrote:

On Feb 27, 9:50 am, Robatoy wrote:

Exactly, to say that you can use SU to build a house does therefore
not validate the software but the builder, who can use anything if he
knows how to build a house in the first place.
I have 20 years and thousands upon thousands of dollars invested in my
software, yet I cannot design, much less build a boat. The software is
very capable as a tool to a boat builder, but *I* cannot design/build
a boat. Owning software with capability means dick.
If my problems are such that my selection of software DOES solve them,
then I am a happy camper. And I am.

You may be in luck with that boat, There are hundreds of design drawings of
boats/ships for Sketchup. *:~)

Snip

So yes, one can build a house with SU, but will it be a better house?

Not necessirilly better or worse as the same goes for AutoCAD or the like
software.
The more in tune with the software you are the better the results of the
plans.

I think the point to designing suitable plans for building a house using
Sketchup is simply that Sketchup is quite capable of fulfilling this need..
More expensive programs that will do the same are simply more expensive
programs that do the same.

When it comes to house-building, you're right.

"Leon" wrote in message
...
So yes, one can build a house with SU, but will it be a better house?

Not necessirilly better or worse as the same goes for AutoCAD or the like
software.
The more in tune with the software you are the better the results of the
plans.

Ultimately, it's you not the pencil that creates the design, but the better
pencil has to fit into that cycle somewhere. If it help shorten or hone each
creative iteration more finely, it's a better pencil.

I think the point to designing suitable plans for building a house using
Sketchup is simply that Sketchup is quite capable of fulfilling this need.

Ironically, I find SU best for the other end of the work. Start with a blank
"sheet", slap in the topography from Google Earth, and have at it. Or start
with the bare, empty room, and block in the new cabinet. It isn't until you
get down to detailing out your ideas that you run into its, ummm,
limitations.

More expensive programs that will do the same are simply more expensive
programs that do the same.

Depends on which other program, of course. With some, you do get something
for the extra money. But none are as friendly as SU for the quick blocking
in and massing studies. We'll just have to agree to disagree on its
usefulness on its suitability for detailing.

On Feb 27, 6:03*pm, "MikeWhy" wrote:

Ironically, I find SU best for the other end of the work. Start with a blank
"sheet", slap in the topography from Google Earth, and have at it.

Right now I'm trying to get the site plan drawing, prepared by the
engineer to agree with Google Earth in Sketchup. The engineer has the
North arrow off by almost ten degrees (ummm, hey buddy, we're going
solar with this thing!), the buildings are in the right locations but
the edge of the lake is off by a fair bit, and that affects setbacks,
lot area and all sorts of other stuff.

It's amazing to so easily compare and correct such specific
information. Before Google bought Sketchup it was just a dream. Now
it's almost free.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Feb 27, 6:03 pm, "MikeWhy" wrote:

Ironically, I find SU best for the other end of the work. Start with a
blank
"sheet", slap in the topography from Google Earth, and have at it.

Right now I'm trying to get the site plan drawing, prepared by the
engineer to agree with Google Earth in Sketchup. The engineer has the
North arrow off by almost ten degrees (ummm, hey buddy, we're going
solar with this thing!), the buildings are in the right locations but
the edge of the lake is off by a fair bit, and that affects setbacks,
lot area and all sorts of other stuff.

Magnetic declination? ... I just had the same issue when orienting the slab
on a current residential project, which was ostensibly oriented specifically
for solar heat/hot water. The designer, who drew up the original "plans" (in
SketchUp, BTW), was not familiar with the difference between true and
magnetic North ... among a myriad of other things.

Amazing, the cavernous gap in education of some of these so called
"professionals" of today.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...


"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Feb 27, 6:03 pm, "MikeWhy" wrote:

Ironically, I find SU best for the other end of the work. Start with a
blank
"sheet", slap in the topography from Google Earth, and have at it.

Right now I'm trying to get the site plan drawing, prepared by the
engineer to agree with Google Earth in Sketchup. The engineer has the
North arrow off by almost ten degrees (ummm, hey buddy, we're going
solar with this thing!), the buildings are in the right locations but
the edge of the lake is off by a fair bit, and that affects setbacks,
lot area and all sorts of other stuff.

Magnetic declination? ... I just had the same issue when orienting the
slab on a current residential project, which was ostensibly oriented
specifically for solar heat/hot water. The designer, who drew up the
original "plans" (in SketchUp, BTW), was not familiar with the difference
between true and magnetic North ... among a myriad of other things.

Amazing, the cavernous gap in education of some of these so called
"professionals" of today.

I grew up in Chicago. It wasn't until primary flight training in Seattle
that I came to understand the difference can become rather significant and
of more than academic interest.

"MikeWhy" wrote

I grew up in Chicago. It wasn't until primary flight training in Seattle
that I came to understand the difference can become rather significant and
of more than academic interest.

Know the feeling ... in my case, calling in artillery fire, in earnest, was
indeed of more than academic interest.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 23:42:42 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:

"MikeWhy" wrote

I grew up in Chicago. It wasn't until primary flight training in Seattle
that I came to understand the difference can become rather significant and
of more than academic interest.

Know the feeling ... in my case, calling in artillery fire, in earnest, was
indeed of more than academic interest.

....bunch of black-hat pilot types were lounging next to a 155 battery
once...we were ready when the guy yelled "fire" the first time...and
the second soon after...but, brother, when they went into "fire for
effect"...heh...*that* was bitchin'! 'Course, if you were calling it
in you got to see the results...or be a part of them!

cg

"Swingman" wrote

Magnetic declination? ... I just had the same issue when orienting the
slab on a current residential project, which was ostensibly oriented
specifically for solar heat/hot water. The designer, who drew up the
original "plans" (in SketchUp, BTW), was not familiar with the difference
between true and magnetic North ... among a myriad of other things.

Amazing, the cavernous gap in education of some of these so called
"professionals" of today.


That is a profound level of ignorance. Heck, I had that nailed at the age
of 11 in boy scouts. I used to reconointer with map and compass
competitively at 13. I must be an old fart. This sort of thing has been
replaced by GPS tecnology.

An aside to the above. I used to take all kinds of wilderness surivival
courses as a teenager and used to build woodcraft types of shelters at
fairs, etc. I also designed elite first aid kits and survival gear. So I
know something about this sort of thing. When asked as to the most
important peice of survival gear I would pack if I was to get very far off
the beaten track, I always answer, "A satellite phone."