I have a badly rusted vise. I think I posted about it a couple years ago
when I got it. I'm finally getting geared up to give electrolysis a try,
because everything else (heat, liquid wrench, time, vinegar, Coke, 10'
cheater bar, sand blaster) has failed to get the screw turning. I'd have
done it already, but even my 80-something grandmother has never heard of
washing soda, and I have no idea where to get some. The web makes it sound
common, but it ain't common around here, unless I'm blind.

I DAGS, and turned up absolutely *nothing* about Morgan except a couple of
unanswered questions, which is pretty amazing. The way this looks, I can't
believe it's a no-name cheapo, so I'm beginning to think it must be
extremely old.

I'm trying to get some sense of how old it is, and how valueable in the
great scheme of things. Something comparable would set me back better than
$100 at least, so it's worth saving, but I'm trying to figure out if it's a
$100 vise or a $150 vise. Based on the amount of iron in this thing, I'd
say it's even a $200 vise, but it looks like the $150 Record has it beat on
capacity, if not massiveness.

It says MORGAN VISE CO CHICAGO to the left of the screw, and MORGAN 10A VISE
to the right. The jaws are 7" wide, and I estimate it would open to about
10" if I could budge it. There's a pop-up dog thingie on the front.

It's *massive*. I'd say by eyeball the guide rods are better than 1" in
diameter. I don't own a wrench, not even a Crescent, big enough to get
around the nuts on the ends of the rods. It probably weighs somewhere
between 40 and 50 pounds.

I don't know how advantageous massive would be, and the screw is
significantly pitted after years of rust, so it might never be smooth and
sure. Still, it looks like one hell of a vise if I can ever get it going.

If I can't find "washing soda" maybe try Drain-O? That's almost pure lye,
isn't it? Yes, I realize it would be caustic as hell, and washing soda
would be safer, but mostly I just want to get this thing working if I can.

Also, someone asked this several years ago, and never got an answer. I'll
repeat the question. What color should this be painted?

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article ,
Silvan wrote:


I have a badly rusted vise. I think I posted about it a couple years ago
when I got it. I'm finally getting geared up to give electrolysis a try,
because everything else (heat, liquid wrench, time, vinegar, Coke, 10'
cheater bar, sand blaster) has failed to get the screw turning. I'd have
done it already, but even my 80-something grandmother has never heard of
washing soda, and I have no idea where to get some. The web makes it sound
common, but it ain't common around here, unless I'm blind.

Most grocery stores and/or hardware stores carry it. Arm & Hammer makes
it, among others. The Arm & Hammer washing soda is a *BLUE* box, close to
the size of a breakfast cereal box. *Not* the little yellow Arm & hammer box,
which is 'baking soda' (aka bicarbonate of soda)

On 22-Oct-2003, () wrote:

The Arm & Hammer washing soda is a *BLUE* box, close to
the size of a breakfast cereal box.

Specifically, it's called Arm & Hammer "So Clean!" Super
Washing Soda. C$4.00 got me a lifetime supply (unless
SWMBO starts using it in the laundry).

The various web sites are vague on exactly what is involved.
Some say you _must_ use washing soda, others say baking soda
might work, others say any alkaline solution will do. As well,
some say exactly one tablespoon per gallon, others say the more
the merrier.

Any chemists out there that can offer a realistic assessment
on the chemistry involved and what can be used, if anything,
instead of washing soda?

Mike

In article ,
Silvan wrote:

I'd have
done it already, but even my 80-something grandmother has never heard of
washing soda, and I have no idea where to get some. The web makes it sound
common, but it ain't common around here, unless I'm blind.

I've had good success using either the Arm and Hammer washing soda
(found in the laundry detergent aisle) or borax (as in 20 Mule Team,
also found in the l. d. aisle). As to the Drain-O, I wouldn't.

As an aside, I wonder how Oxy-clean might work...

--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com
http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html

Does it look like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=20 761
-- I dont know nothing about washing soda but you didnt mention using any
oil to free it up,like a penetrating oil like PB or aerokroil or whatever
you have let it soak in oil for a few days
Knowledge speaks, wisdom listen.....
Jimi Hendrix
"Silvan" wrote in message
...
I have a badly rusted vise. I think I posted about it a couple years ago
when I got it. I'm finally getting geared up to give electrolysis a try,
because everything else (heat, liquid wrench, time, vinegar, Coke, 10'
cheater bar, sand blaster) has failed to get the screw turning. I'd have
done it already, but even my 80-something grandmother has never heard of
washing soda, and I have no idea where to get some. The web makes it
sound
common, but it ain't common around here, unless I'm blind.

I DAGS, and turned up absolutely *nothing* about Morgan except a couple of
unanswered questions, which is pretty amazing. The way this looks, I
can't
believe it's a no-name cheapo, so I'm beginning to think it must be
extremely old.

I'm trying to get some sense of how old it is, and how valueable in the
great scheme of things. Something comparable would set me back better
than
$100 at least, so it's worth saving, but I'm trying to figure out if it's
a
$100 vise or a $150 vise. Based on the amount of iron in this thing, I'd
say it's even a $200 vise, but it looks like the $150 Record has it beat
on
capacity, if not massiveness.

It says MORGAN VISE CO CHICAGO to the left of the screw, and MORGAN 10A
VISE
to the right. The jaws are 7" wide, and I estimate it would open to about
10" if I could budge it. There's a pop-up dog thingie on the front.

It's *massive*. I'd say by eyeball the guide rods are better than 1" in
diameter. I don't own a wrench, not even a Crescent, big enough to get
around the nuts on the ends of the rods. It probably weighs somewhere
between 40 and 50 pounds.

I don't know how advantageous massive would be, and the screw is
significantly pitted after years of rust, so it might never be smooth and
sure. Still, it looks like one hell of a vise if I can ever get it going.

If I can't find "washing soda" maybe try Drain-O? That's almost pure lye,
isn't it? Yes, I realize it would be caustic as hell, and washing soda
would be safer, but mostly I just want to get this thing working if I can.

Also, someone asked this several years ago, and never got an answer. I'll
repeat the question. What color should this be painted?

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Fly-by-Night CC wrote:

I've had good success using either the Arm and Hammer washing soda
(found in the laundry detergent aisle) or borax (as in 20 Mule Team,
also found in the l. d. aisle). As to the Drain-O, I wouldn't.

Borax we got. I used to stock the laundry detergent at Wal-Mart, and this
washing soda stuff just doesn't ring a bell, though I haven't yet gone out
to look *hard* since someone mentioned a blue box.

As an aside, I wonder how Oxy-clean might work...

Dunno. What's Oxy-Clean actually made out of? It's worth a shot though,
maybe. I have a bucket o' that stuff right here somewhere.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article .net, () wrote:
In article ,
Silvan wrote:


I have a badly rusted vise. I think I posted about it a couple years ago
when I got it. I'm finally getting geared up to give electrolysis a try,
because everything else (heat, liquid wrench, time, vinegar, Coke, 10'
cheater bar, sand blaster) has failed to get the screw turning. I'd have
done it already, but even my 80-something grandmother has never heard of
washing soda, and I have no idea where to get some. The web makes it sound
common, but it ain't common around here, unless I'm blind.

Most grocery stores and/or hardware stores carry it. Arm & Hammer makes
it, among others. The Arm & Hammer washing soda is a *BLUE* box, close to
the size of a breakfast cereal box. *Not* the little yellow Arm & hammer box,
which is 'baking soda' (aka bicarbonate of soda)

Around here (Indianapolis), it comes in a big yellow box, weighing 3+ pounds.
I've never seen it in a blue box.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

In article , Silvan wrote:
I have a badly rusted vise. I think I posted about it a couple years ago
when I got it. I'm finally getting geared up to give electrolysis a try,
because everything else (heat, liquid wrench, time, vinegar, Coke, 10'
cheater bar, sand blaster) has failed to get the screw turning. I'd have
done it already, but even my 80-something grandmother has never heard of
washing soda, and I have no idea where to get some. The web makes it sound
common, but it ain't common around here, unless I'm blind.

Most grocery stores here (Indianapolis) have it, on the same aisle as laundry
detergent. If you can find the Borax, the washing soda will be nearby.
Hardware stores (the real ones, like Ace, not HD or Lowe's) are likely to have
it too. If you can't get it where you live, drop me an email (see sig line)
and I can send you some. Fair warning: it'll cost 2-3x as much for shipping as
for the soda. It comes in 55-ounce boxes that cost about two-fifty US.

I'm *amazed* that your grandmother has never heard of washing soda. Perhaps
she knows it by a different name (sal soda, carbonate of soda, maybe even soda
ash). Ask her what she used for washing clothes when she was young, or what
her mother used.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

In article , Silvan wrote:
I have a badly rusted vise. I think I posted about it a couple years ago
when I got it. I'm finally getting geared up to give electrolysis a try,
because everything else (heat, liquid wrench, time, vinegar, Coke, 10'
cheater bar, sand blaster) has failed to get the screw turning. I'd have
done it already, but even my 80-something grandmother has never heard of
washing soda, and I have no idea where to get some. The web makes it sound
common, but it ain't common around here, unless I'm blind.

So you know what you're looking for, there's a picture of the box at the top
of this page:
http://tinyurl.com/rvol

Full URL:
http://www.thelaundrybasket.
com/Questions_Comments/Questions_Comments_Super_Washing_Soda/questions_comment
s_super_washi.html

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

martin wrote:

Does it look like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=20 761

Indeed. Only 9", only 25 pounds, and only sold for $62. Hrmph. So much
for my magical super vise.

-- I dont know nothing about washing soda but you didnt mention using any
oil to free it up,like a penetrating oil like PB or aerokroil or whatever
you have let it soak in oil for a few days

I tried Liquid Wrench, because that's what I had. I've never heard of PB or
aerokroil, but I doubt I can get'em at Wal-Mart.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article , Silvan wrote:
Fly-by-Night CC wrote:

I've had good success using either the Arm and Hammer washing soda
(found in the laundry detergent aisle) or borax (as in 20 Mule Team,
also found in the l. d. aisle). As to the Drain-O, I wouldn't.

Borax we got. I used to stock the laundry detergent at Wal-Mart, and this
washing soda stuff just doesn't ring a bell, though I haven't yet gone out
to look *hard* since someone mentioned a blue box.

Wal-Mart does *not* carry it. And I've never seen it in a blue box, only
yellow. See my immediately previous post in this thread for a link to a
picture.

As an aside, I wonder how Oxy-clean might work...

Dunno. What's Oxy-Clean actually made out of? It's worth a shot though,
maybe. I have a bucket o' that stuff right here somewhere.

Are we talking about the acne medicine, or the laundry bleach? The former is
salicylic acid, which definitely will not behave in even remotely similar
fashion to washing soda. The latter is sodium percarbonate aka sodium
carbonate peroxyhydrate -- basically washing soda combined with hyrdrogen
peroxide. Probably will work.... but I'm not a chemist, and college chemistry
classes were a *long* time ago.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

"Silvan" wrote in message
...
: I have a badly rusted vise. I think I posted about it a couple years ago
: when I got it. I'm finally getting geared up to give electrolysis a try,
: because everything else (heat, liquid wrench, time, vinegar, Coke, 10'
: cheater bar, sand blaster) has failed to get the screw turning. I'd have
: done it already, but even my 80-something grandmother has never heard of
: washing soda, and I have no idea where to get some. The web makes it sound
: common, but it ain't common around here, unless I'm blind.
:
: I DAGS, and turned up absolutely *nothing* about Morgan except a couple of
: unanswered questions, which is pretty amazing. The way this looks, I can't
: believe it's a no-name cheapo, so I'm beginning to think it must be
: extremely old.
:
: I'm trying to get some sense of how old it is, and how valueable in the
: great scheme of things. Something comparable would set me back better than
: $100 at least, so it's worth saving, but I'm trying to figure out if it's a
: $100 vise or a $150 vise. Based on the amount of iron in this thing, I'd
: say it's even a $200 vise, but it looks like the $150 Record has it beat on
: capacity, if not massiveness.
:
: It says MORGAN VISE CO CHICAGO to the left of the screw, and MORGAN 10A VISE
: to the right. The jaws are 7" wide, and I estimate it would open to about
: 10" if I could budge it. There's a pop-up dog thingie on the front.
:
: It's *massive*. I'd say by eyeball the guide rods are better than 1" in
: diameter. I don't own a wrench, not even a Crescent, big enough to get
: around the nuts on the ends of the rods. It probably weighs somewhere
: between 40 and 50 pounds.
:
: I don't know how advantageous massive would be, and the screw is
: significantly pitted after years of rust, so it might never be smooth and
: sure. Still, it looks like one hell of a vise if I can ever get it going.
:
: If I can't find "washing soda" maybe try Drain-O? That's almost pure lye,
: isn't it? Yes, I realize it would be caustic as hell, and washing soda
: would be safer, but mostly I just want to get this thing working if I can.
:
: Also, someone asked this several years ago, and never got an answer. I'll
: repeat the question. What color should this be painted?
:
: --
: Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
: Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

I picked up one of those vises at a garage sale a month or 2 ago. The one I picked up has a quick
release set-up on the screw to allow you to slide the vise in and out then tighten it up. A little
different than todays vises with the release bar. Only paid $5.00 for the vise. I have not been able
to find any info on them either. It will work good with my Record vise
:

Silvan wrote:

Fly-by-Night CC wrote:


I've had good success using either the Arm and Hammer washing soda
(found in the laundry detergent aisle) or borax (as in 20 Mule Team,
also found in the l. d. aisle). As to the Drain-O, I wouldn't.


Borax we got. I used to stock the laundry detergent at Wal-Mart, and this
washing soda stuff just doesn't ring a bell, though I haven't yet gone out
to look *hard* since someone mentioned a blue box.

snip

Washing soda is just sodium carbonate. If you look at the ingredients
of granular dishwasher detergent you will find that is also sodium
carbonate.

I could not locate washing soda in my general area, so I have been using
dishwasher detergent for years in this application and it works well.

While electrolysis will work well to remove external rust on the vise,
it is probably not the best process for freeing up the screw. In order
for electrolyses to work, the electrolyte needs to come in contact with
the rust and then permit the rust to migrate towards the anode. The
close tolerances of the mating screw surfaces will significantly impede
this process.

Try a good penetrating oil to free up the vise screw and then zap the
disassembled components to remove the rust.


Tim

In article ,
(Doug Miller) wrote:

Are we talking about the acne medicine, or the laundry bleach? The former is
salicylic acid, which definitely will not behave in even remotely similar
fashion to washing soda. The latter is sodium percarbonate aka sodium
carbonate peroxyhydrate -- basically washing soda combined with hyrdrogen
peroxide. Probably will work.... but I'm not a chemist, and college chemistry
classes were a *long* time ago.

Yeah, I don't think Clearasil would work too well - and the quantity'd
be damned expensive.

--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com
http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:17:15 -0400, Silvan
pixelated:

It's *massive*. I'd say by eyeball the guide rods are better than 1" in
diameter. I don't own a wrench, not even a Crescent, big enough to get
around the nuts on the ends of the rods. It probably weighs somewhere
between 40 and 50 pounds.

Cool.


I don't know how advantageous massive would be, and the screw is
significantly pitted after years of rust, so it might never be smooth and
sure. Still, it looks like one hell of a vise if I can ever get it going.

Remember that the face of the thread is the contact point, so
it may look worse than it might feel. Are the thread faces
themselves badly pitted? If so, it may not be worthwhile
messing with. If not, give *b*y a go.


If I can't find "washing soda" maybe try Drain-O? That's almost pure lye,
isn't it? Yes, I realize it would be caustic as hell, and washing soda
would be safer, but mostly I just want to get this thing working if I can.

Heat the casting with a propane torch and let it cool some while
tapping on the end with a little sledge hammer to let it -know-
you want it to move. Spray on some WD/LiquidWrench/Croil (last
one highly touted) and try it once it finishes cooling.

Alternatively, heat the casting while cooling the screw with freon.
Grease the uncooled side so it fills the hot casting with a good
moly w/b grease as you get it to move. Some will be absorbed into
the casting as it cools, helping prevent future seizures.


Also, someone asked this several years ago, and never got an answer. I'll
repeat the question. What color should this be painted?

"Beige." was the answer that popped into my mind at that point.
It reminded me somehow of the yewish joke "What did the yewish
american princess say just as you were about done making love?"
"Beige. Yes, I think I'll paint the ceiling beige."

----
A mostly meat-powered woodworker, and proud of it.
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

In article ,
(Doug Miller) wrote:

Around here (Indianapolis), it comes in a big yellow box, weighing 3+ pounds.
I've never seen it in a blue box.

In article ,
(Doug Miller) wrote:

Most grocery stores here (Indianapolis) have it, on the same aisle as laundry
detergent. If you can find the Borax, the washing soda will be nearby.
Hardware stores (the real ones, like Ace, not HD or Lowe's) are likely to
have
it too. If you can't get it where you live, drop me an email (see sig line)
and I can send you some. Fair warning: it'll cost 2-3x as much for shipping
as
for the soda. It comes in 55-ounce boxes that cost about two-fifty US.


In article ,
(Doug Miller) wrote:

Wal-Mart does *not* carry it. And I've never seen it in a blue box, only
yellow. See my immediately previous post in this thread for a link to a
picture.

In article ,
(Doug Miller) wrote:

So you know what you're looking for, there's a picture of the box at the top
of this page:
http://tinyurl.com/rvol

Full URL:
http://www.thelaundrybasket.
com/Questions_Comments/Questions_Comments_Super_Washing_Soda/questions_comment
s_super_washi.html

Yo, Doug. You're pushing this stuff pretty hard. You a "dealer" or maybe
an...


investor?



--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com
http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html

I've bought washing soda at regular supermarkets, including Safeway &
Superfresh, as well as local (to Baltimore) smaller stores. Electrolysis
is probably worth trying just for the good cleanup results if nothing
else, but I'd have my doubts about it freeing up a
seized screw like that. Have you tried heating the nut or female
threaded portion of the vise?


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

On 22-Oct-2003, Larry Jaques wrote:

Alternatively, heat the casting while cooling the screw with freon.

Freon? You're joking, right?

Mike

Freon, well if you wanted to kill yourself......

Michael Daly wrote:

On 22-Oct-2003, Larry Jaques wrote:



Alternatively, heat the casting while cooling the screw with freon.



Freon? You're joking, right?

Mike

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:33:30 GMT, "Michael Daly"
pixelated:

On 22-Oct-2003, Larry Jaques wrote:

Alternatively, heat the casting while cooling the screw with freon.

Freon? You're joking, right?

Would "New/Improved Ozone-Safe Coolant" be preferred, sir?

Correction on my last post: it's Kroil, with a "k", not "c".

And add that a Large Front Vise 70G08.02 for $70 from LVT
might be a heap lot less trouble than salvaging that rusty
vise.

----
A mostly meat-powered woodworker, and proud of it.
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

Years ago (and we are talking years ago), Coke was a rust
removed/penetrator. It has a LOT of pohosphoric acid in it and would
seep down in the crevices and cracks and worked ok except it removed
any and all finish you might have on the metal.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:07:51 -0400, Silvan
wrote:

martin wrote:

Does it look like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=20 761

Indeed. Only 9", only 25 pounds, and only sold for $62. Hrmph. So much
for my magical super vise.

-- I dont know nothing about washing soda but you didnt mention using any
oil to free it up,like a penetrating oil like PB or aerokroil or whatever
you have let it soak in oil for a few days

I tried Liquid Wrench, because that's what I had. I've never heard of PB or
aerokroil, but I doubt I can get'em at Wal-Mart.

Larry Jaques wrote:

it may look worse than it might feel. Are the thread faces
themselves badly pitted? If so, it may not be worthwhile
messing with. If not, give *b*y a go.

Looks like it would go. It sand blasted up pretty good. It's pitted, but
there's plenty of metal left. It will probably just be a little sloppy.

Heat the casting with a propane torch and let it cool some while
tapping on the end with a little sledge hammer to let it -know-
you want it to move. Spray on some WD/LiquidWrench/Croil (last
one highly touted) and try it once it finishes cooling.

OK, that could work. I haven't tried heating it recently.

While I'm posting, I'll just answer a couple others here in one place for
once. Checked again, no washing soda anywhere, so I decided to try
Oxy-Clean before spending any money.

It's working. I only have a 1A trickle charger, so it's working verry,
verrrry slloooooooooooowly. I'm not sure if it's the chemical or what, but
the anode isn't disintegrating. It's collecting little stalagtite looking
thinks, and it's quite freaky to behold. The vise is doing what it's
supposed to do, so I'm pretty sure I'm not eating it. Rust is turning to
black slime.

The big block that the screw runs through moves. The four holes that the
rods go through move a little when I whack them. I still can't turn it to
save my life. I think the business end of the screw still has rust deep
inside. That area hasn't really started to turn black yet either.

I put some Liquid Wrench on it. I'll try heating and beating the hell out
of it when I get back. I think it might go now that I'm only trying to
un-seize one thing. If not, the heat will burn off the oil, and I can try
electrolysis again.

Alternatively, heat the casting while cooling the screw with freon.

Freon... Don't let the EPA hear you say that!

american princess say just as you were about done making love?"
"Beige. Yes, I think I'll paint the ceiling beige."



--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Larry Jaques wrote:

And add that a Large Front Vise 70G08.02 for $70 from LVT
might be a heap lot less trouble than salvaging that rusty
vise.


I have...

53 cents.

If I don't get it to go, I might try getting something similar on Ebay
though. I don't care what it looks like, I just want a bigger front vise,
or at least a second front vise. These things are damned handy!

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

I bought two Morgan vices (200A) about 3-4 years ago and have been very
happy with them so I'd keep working on it. Based on an updated post of
yours it sounds like you're making progress so I'm sure you'll have it tuned
up in no time. IIRC the guy I bought them from said they came from a High
School shop class. Seems plausible, but it doesn't help determine the age.
Good luck!

--
Larry C in Auburn, WA

"Silvan" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:

And add that a Large Front Vise 70G08.02 for $70 from LVT
might be a heap lot less trouble than salvaging that rusty
vise.


I have...

53 cents.

If I don't get it to go, I might try getting something similar on Ebay
though. I don't care what it looks like, I just want a bigger front vise,
or at least a second front vise. These things are damned handy!

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

"Silvan" wrote in message
Checked again, no washing soda anywhere, so I decided to try
Oxy-Clean before spending any money.

Quite some time ago I found (rare now) a website that had an old (but well
known) article entitled "Cleaning Rusty Tools - Electrolysis Made Easy".

I've used the same process to cleanup vises, pliers and even a old "pitcher
pump" for my wife.
The old 'recipe' called for either "washing soda" or "baking soda" (you
know - Arm&Hammer?) at about one tablespoon per gallon of water.
What this stuff does is only provide a medium for the electrical current. If
I were you, I'd stray away from Lye. Yea, it'll provide a path for the
current alright. So would salt water, battery acid, muratic acid, (oh, lets
not forget radioactive plasma)! What you're trying to do is remove
corrosion, not make more! Like the author of the article repeats over and
over, "This Aint Rocket Science".
Any POS battery charger or power supply that will deliver 2 amps or more at
6-24 volts will do. Your 1 amp trickle charger will just take longer (but
you knew that).

Hope this helps,
Jon Veeneman

Larry C in Auburn, WA wrote:

yours it sounds like you're making progress so I'm sure you'll have it
tuned up in no time. IIRC the guy I bought them from said they came from
a High School shop class. Seems plausible, but it doesn't help determine
the age. Good luck!

This one was mounted on the back of a delivery truck, for some reason.
Being outside for umpty dozen years didn't do it any good. I was standing
there when it fell off, and the guy said "Here, you want a vise?"

I'll see how far I am tomorrow. All I have to do it get it to move one good
time, and I should be able to get it going nicely.

If not, it will make a better boat anchor than my table saw.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Jon wrote:

corrosion, not make more! Like the author of the article repeats over and
over, "This Aint Rocket Science".

Maybe so, but it *is* a cool chemistry experiment.

Any POS battery charger or power supply that will deliver 2 amps or more
at 6-24 volts will do. Your 1 amp trickle charger will just take longer
(but you knew that).

Took a loooong time to really start to look like it was going to do
something, but it's cheaper than buying a better charger. Dad used to use
this one to keep his motorcycle battery charged up, which is exactly what
it's designed for.

Hmmm... I can't remember why Dad sold his motorcycle. Betcha it had
something to do with Mom bitching at him for wasting money.

I'm glad SWMBO doesn't do that to me. She may roll her eyes, but she
understand on some level, and she never tries to badger me into not doing
something. We both learned a long time ago that neither one of us really
cares what the other one thinks about a lot of things, and neither one of
us is ever going to change to suit the other. We're fine with that.

I'm glad I didn't "marry my mother."

But I digress. I need to get motivated to go out in the cold and whack on
that vise.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan wrote:
The big block that the screw runs through moves. The four holes that the
rods go through move a little when I whack them. I still can't turn it to
save my life. I think the business end of the screw still has rust deep
inside. That area hasn't really started to turn black yet either.

I apologize for missing this thread till now. I have a Morgan Vise a
friend gave that I was able to break loose with liquid wrench. He told
me he got it from his uncle who'd been using it since the fifties, and
he believes it was old then.

What I found after I'd gotten the screw turning was that it was, for
lack of a better description, the "quick-slide type": the screw itself
only turned about two revolutions before hitting a stop in both
directions; there's a slot in the screw and when it's in the right
position, you can slide the face back and forth, to where it touches the
piece, then tighten it with the screw.

Is it possible you've got one of these, and you're at the end of the
spin travel in one direction or the other? In my case I was trying to do
just that with a piece of pipe in the screw handle, then after the third
treatment of LW I reefed it the other way and nearly fell over when it
broke loose.

Haven't looked at it for a few weeks and I can't leave work right now to
go check it so I might be remembering a few things wrong. Maybe I can
take a few pictures this weekend to see if it might look like yours.
From your description, mine is definitely smaller. :-)

Dan

Dan wrote:

friend gave that I was able to break loose with liquid wrench. He told
me he got it from his uncle who'd been using it since the fifties, and
he believes it was old then.

Wow... I like old stuff.

Haven't looked at it for a few weeks and I can't leave work right now to
go check it so I might be remembering a few things wrong. Maybe I can
take a few pictures this weekend to see if it might look like yours.
From your description, mine is definitely smaller. :-)

Not necessary. I can tell you for sure that mine isn't the quick slide type
you describe.

In any event, after electrolyzing away most of the rust, then stewing in
Liquid Wrench overnight, then heating it and beating the crap out of it, I
finally got it to move.

I had to whack on it with a big ball pein hammer for a very long time to get
it to do anything, and now it has lots of dents on the pipe, but it's
moving by hand.

It's not very smooth, but it's free enough that I think I can get it into
service from here. Maybe. I'll see how it goes after I get it mounted,
which is a pretty non-trivial undertaking in of itself. I'll have to
reconfigure my poorly-designed workbench.

At least I finally got it to move after two years of fooling with it.


--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

"Silvan" wrote in message
...
Dan wrote:

friend gave that I was able to break loose with liquid wrench. He told
me he got it from his uncle who'd been using it since the fifties, and
he believes it was old then.

Wow... I like old stuff.

Haven't looked at it for a few weeks and I can't leave work right now to
go check it so I might be remembering a few things wrong. Maybe I can
take a few pictures this weekend to see if it might look like yours.
From your description, mine is definitely smaller. :-)

Not necessary. I can tell you for sure that mine isn't the quick slide
type
you describe.

In any event, after electrolyzing away most of the rust, then stewing in
Liquid Wrench overnight, then heating it and beating the crap out of it, I
finally got it to move.

I had to whack on it with a big ball pein hammer for a very long time to
get
it to do anything, and now it has lots of dents on the pipe, but it's
moving by hand.

It's not very smooth, but it's free enough that I think I can get it into
service from here. Maybe. I'll see how it goes after I get it mounted,
which is a pretty non-trivial undertaking in of itself. I'll have to
reconfigure my poorly-designed workbench.

At least I finally got it to move after two years of fooling with it.


--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

I've got the 200A which is the quick slide release type. It has a nice
wooden handle on it. Mine just needs a little clean up. Looks and adjusts
pretty nice.

Bob Gramza wrote:

I've got the 200A which is the quick slide release type. It has a nice
wooden handle on it. Mine just needs a little clean up. Looks and adjusts
pretty nice.

I'm probably going to saw off this ugly, bashed-up metal handle and replace
it with something fancy once I get my new lathe going.

Maybe.... Walnut??

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan wrote:

Also, someone asked this several years ago, and never got an answer. I'll
repeat the question. What color should this be painted?

I don't think I ever posted an update.

For anyone who cares...

After quite a lot of effort to get the thing worked free, it's now as silky
smooth as any other vise in my shop. The effort of working the screw back
and forth so many times has actually polished the screw silver again.
There's some pitting to be sure, but I don't think it's going to keep me
from getting many years of service out of the vise.

The color question has been answered... It's not really warm enough to
paint anyway, and I want to get it into service, so I just waxed it as is.
It pretty much looks like slightly rusty cast iron covered with dull, hazy
wax. I think it's somehow fitting that it looks really old, since it
almost certainly is.

Now all I have to do is figure out how to get the bolts out. There are two
threaded metal plates that fit inside a slot in the fixed jaw. I can't
coax the plates out without removing the bolts, and they're broken off in
such a fashion that it's going to be a real bitch to get them out. If I
could weld, I'd tack a piece of rod to the end, but I can't, so I'm going
to have to come up with something else. Or cave in and take the thing to
work and get my boss to do it.


--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Michael: Standard method is using left-handed drill bits and run your
drill in reverse. Have fun finding them and listening to the smart ass
answers you will get when you ask for them. As the drill bit bites, it
will both apply torque and heat up the bolt both actions help allow
the broken bolt to release. If you can't locate them, write me off
line and I will locate some for you. Heat with a propane torch MIGHT
work if done carefully.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:52:40 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Silvan wrote:

Also, someone asked this several years ago, and never got an answer. I'll
repeat the question. What color should this be painted?

I don't think I ever posted an update.

For anyone who cares...

After quite a lot of effort to get the thing worked free, it's now as silky
smooth as any other vise in my shop. The effort of working the screw back
and forth so many times has actually polished the screw silver again.
There's some pitting to be sure, but I don't think it's going to keep me
from getting many years of service out of the vise.

The color question has been answered... It's not really warm enough to
paint anyway, and I want to get it into service, so I just waxed it as is.
It pretty much looks like slightly rusty cast iron covered with dull, hazy
wax. I think it's somehow fitting that it looks really old, since it
almost certainly is.

Now all I have to do is figure out how to get the bolts out. There are two
threaded metal plates that fit inside a slot in the fixed jaw. I can't
coax the plates out without removing the bolts, and they're broken off in
such a fashion that it's going to be a real bitch to get them out. If I
could weld, I'd tack a piece of rod to the end, but I can't, so I'm going
to have to come up with something else. Or cave in and take the thing to
work and get my boss to do it.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:52:40 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Silvan wrote:

Now all I have to do is figure out how to get the bolts out. There are two
threaded metal plates that fit inside a slot in the fixed jaw. I can't
coax the plates out without removing the bolts, and they're broken off in
such a fashion that it's going to be a real bitch to get them out. If I
could weld, I'd tack a piece of rod to the end, but I can't, so I'm going
to have to come up with something else. Or cave in and take the thing to
work and get my boss to do it.

Lawrence A. Ramsey wrote:
Michael: Standard method is using left-handed drill bits and run your
drill in reverse. Have fun finding them and listening to the smart ass
answers you will get when you ask for them. As the drill bit bites, it
will both apply torque and heat up the bolt both actions help allow
the broken bolt to release. If you can't locate them, write me off

Go to Heavener Hardware, or the big box store of your choice
and ask for "easy outs". I know Heavener has them because
I bought one just a couple weeks ago. They are basically
hardened left-handed drills meant to extract broken off screws
or bolts. They come in several sizes and fit in a tap handle.
There is a drill size marked on the easy out that is the size
pilot hole you drill first. Some people call them
"screw extractors." Actually, if the size is approriate you
can borrow mine. Send me an e-mail and we can set up a
meeting.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

Actually, I found a set of left handed bits at harbor freight. Haven't
needed them yet, but as long as each bit lasts for the one or two screws
I'll need it for it's worth clogging up my toolbox withfor a while.
Joe

wrote:

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:52:40 -0500, Silvan
wrote:


Silvan wrote:

Now all I have to do is figure out how to get the bolts out. There are two
threaded metal plates that fit inside a slot in the fixed jaw. I can't
coax the plates out without removing the bolts, and they're broken off in
such a fashion that it's going to be a real bitch to get them out. If I
could weld, I'd tack a piece of rod to the end, but I can't, so I'm going
to have to come up with something else. Or cave in and take the thing to
work and get my boss to do it.


Lawrence A. Ramsey wrote:

Michael: Standard method is using left-handed drill bits and run your
drill in reverse. Have fun finding them and listening to the smart ass
answers you will get when you ask for them. As the drill bit bites, it
will both apply torque and heat up the bolt both actions help allow
the broken bolt to release. If you can't locate them, write me off


Go to Heavener Hardware, or the big box store of your choice
and ask for "easy outs". I know Heavener has them because
I bought one just a couple weeks ago. They are basically
hardened left-handed drills meant to extract broken off screws
or bolts. They come in several sizes and fit in a tap handle.
There is a drill size marked on the easy out that is the size
pilot hole you drill first. Some people call them
"screw extractors." Actually, if the size is approriate you
can borrow mine. Send me an e-mail and we can set up a
meeting.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

Lawrence A. Ramsey wrote:

Michael: Standard method is using left-handed drill bits and run your
drill in reverse. Have fun finding them and listening to the smart ass
answers you will get when you ask for them. As the drill bit bites, it
will both apply torque and heat up the bolt both actions help allow
the broken bolt to release. If you can't locate them, write me off
line and I will locate some for you. Heat with a propane torch MIGHT
work if done carefully.

Right there with the left handed shovels, right?

No, I know you're serious. I've seen them somewhere or other, and that
sounds like a good plan.

I got off easy though. I had a big cutoff disc for my Dremel that was able
to reach into the crevice and get at the thing. One of them came out with
little more than a tap and a twist. The other one, I had to cut way down,
hammer the sacrificial screwdriver into the kerf, and then wrench on the
screwdriver (crescent wrenches _are_ good for something, though Bob Vila
would surely have used pliers) to break it loose.

It was pretty determined to stay put, but I got it. I've gotten the vise
installed, and have already used it. The only down side here is that I put
it in the middle of my bench, and now I'm getting paranoid about that after
looking at all the pictures of workbenches with the vise on the far end,
where it doesn't have to penetrate any support members.

Well, I didn't want it at the far end, and what's done is done. I lined up
my little cheapo at the far end, and now I can clamp a 72" board with no
more than 24" at a stretch unsupported, which feels right.

It's been a fun adventure. Best of all I got a really awesome ~$100+
equivalent vise for surely less than $1.00 in supplies/electricity.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

replying to Silvan, Cdball wrote:
dmmcintyr wrote:

I have a badly rusted vise. I think I posted about it a couple years ago
when I got it. I'm finally getting geared up to give electrolysis a try,
because everything else (heat, liquid wrench, time, vinegar, Coke, 10'
cheater bar, sand blaster) has failed to get the screw turning. I'd have
done it already, but even my 80-something grandmother has never heard of
washing soda, and I have no idea where to get some. The web makes it sound
common, but it ain't common around here, unless I'm blind.
I DAGS, and turned up absolutely *nothing* about Morgan except a couple of
unanswered questions, which is pretty amazing. The way this looks, I can't
believe it's a no-name cheapo, so I'm beginning to think it must be
extremely old.
I'm trying to get some sense of how old it is, and how valueable in the
great scheme of things. Something comparable would set me back better than
$100 at least, so it's worth saving, but I'm trying to figure out if it's a
$100 vise or a $150 vise. Based on the amount of iron in this thing, I'd
say it's even a $200 vise, but it looks like the $150 Record has it beat on
capacity, if not massiveness.
It says MORGAN VISE CO CHICAGO to the left of the screw, and MORGAN 10A
VISE
to the right. The jaws are 7" wide, and I estimate it would open to about
10" if I could budge it. There's a pop-up dog thingie on the front.
It's *massive*. I'd say by eyeball the guide rods are better than 1" in
diameter. I don't own a wrench, not even a Crescent, big enough to get
around the nuts on the ends of the rods. It probably weighs somewhere
between 40 and 50 pounds.


I called the Milwaukee guys. They told me Morgan produced in Chicago from
1929 to 1956. No way to know any more specific than that. 10-A vises
sell for about $175 brand new according to the guy in Milwaukee.

--

On 8/5/2014 9:44 PM, Cdball wrote:
I have a badly rusted vise. I think I posted about it a couple years ago
when I got it. I'm finally getting geared up to give electrolysis a try,
because everything else (heat, liquid wrench, time, vinegar, Coke, 10'
cheater bar, sand blaster) has failed to get the screw turning. I'd have
done it already, but even my 80-something grandmother has never heard of
washing soda, and I have no idea where to get some. The web makes it sound
common, but it ain't common around here, unless I'm blind.
washing soda is Sodium Carbonate, a very common chemical

If you can not find Sodium Carbonate ( Na 2 CO3)(Washing soda) use
baking soda Sodium BiCarbonate (Na H CO3)

Have you tried to soak it in light oil?

I sent a message to the guys at milwaukee tool about the color to repaint my 100 A Morgan and they said the color is called safety blue. I found it at the local home depot in a spray from rustoleum. Have fun.

--mike--

On Wednesday, October 22, 2003 at 12:17:15 AM UTC-4, Silvan wrote:
I have a badly rusted vise. I think I posted about it a couple years ago
when I got it. I'm finally getting geared up to give electrolysis a try,
because everything else (heat, liquid wrench, time, vinegar, Coke, 10'
cheater bar, sand blaster) has failed to get the screw turning. I'd have
done it already, but even my 80-something grandmother has never heard of
washing soda, and I have no idea where to get some. The web makes it sound
common, but it ain't common around here, unless I'm blind.

I DAGS, and turned up absolutely *nothing* about Morgan except a couple of
unanswered questions, which is pretty amazing. The way this looks, I can't
believe it's a no-name cheapo, so I'm beginning to think it must be
extremely old.

I'm trying to get some sense of how old it is, and how valueable in the
great scheme of things. Something comparable would set me back better than
$100 at least, so it's worth saving, but I'm trying to figure out if it's a
$100 vise or a $150 vise. Based on the amount of iron in this thing, I'd
say it's even a $200 vise, but it looks like the $150 Record has it beat on
capacity, if not massiveness.

It says MORGAN VISE CO CHICAGO to the left of the screw, and MORGAN 10A VISE
to the right. The jaws are 7" wide, and I estimate it would open to about
10" if I could budge it. There's a pop-up dog thingie on the front.

It's *massive*. I'd say by eyeball the guide rods are better than 1" in
diameter. I don't own a wrench, not even a Crescent, big enough to get
around the nuts on the ends of the rods. It probably weighs somewhere
between 40 and 50 pounds.

I don't know how advantageous massive would be, and the screw is
significantly pitted after years of rust, so it might never be smooth and
sure. Still, it looks like one hell of a vise if I can ever get it going.

If I can't find "washing soda" maybe try Drain-O? That's almost pure lye,
isn't it? Yes, I realize it would be caustic as hell, and washing soda
would be safer, but mostly I just want to get this thing working if I can.

Also, someone asked this several years ago, and never got an answer. I'll
repeat the question. What color should this be painted?

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

"Keith Nuttle" wrote in message ...

On 8/5/2014 9:44 PM, Cdball wrote:
I have a badly rusted vise. I think I posted about it a couple years ago
when I got it. I'm finally getting geared up to give electrolysis a try,
because everything else (heat, liquid wrench, time, vinegar, Coke, 10'
cheater bar, sand blaster) has failed to get the screw turning. I'd have
done it already, but even my 80-something grandmother has never heard of
washing soda, and I have no idea where to get some. The web makes it
sound
common, but it ain't common around here, unless I'm blind.
washing soda is Sodium Carbonate, a very common chemical

If you can not find Sodium Carbonate ( Na 2 CO3)(Washing soda) use baking
soda Sodium BiCarbonate (Na H CO3)

Find Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda in the laundry section at the super
market...

I just did an inherited Stanley No 6 with it and it turned out very nice.
I've got a router plane, dividers, and a few more items to go...