I send my condolences and good wishes to not only the woodworkers, but
all of the good people in London and throughout the UK.

I doubt the terrorists realize the extent to which they are
strengthening the bonds between those they attack - and I earnestly
hope they learn that they make themselves brother to no man.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

Morris Dovey wrote:
I send my condolences and good wishes to not only the woodworkers, but
all of the good people in London and throughout the UK.

I doubt the terrorists realize the extent to which they are
strengthening the bonds between those they attack - and I earnestly
hope they learn that they make themselves brother to no man.

I'll echo your condolences, and the bonding. But as for the rest, you
are much nicer than I am.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.patinatools.org

In article , Morris Dovey
wrote:

I send my condolences and good wishes to not only the woodworkers, but
all of the good people in London and throughout the UK.

I doubt the terrorists realize the extent to which they are
strengthening the bonds between those they attack - and I earnestly
hope they learn that they make themselves brother to no man.

Terrorizing London with bombs was tried in the past. One A. Hitler
thought it would somehow cow the British people and further his goal of
world domination. I don't understand why the Islamofascists think they
can succeed where he failed.

------------------------------------------

When Britain first at Heav'n's command
Arose from out the azure main;
This was the charter of the land,
And guardian angels sang this strain;

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

The nations not so blest as thee,
Shall in their turns to tyrants fall;
While thou shalt flourish great and free,
The dread and envy of them all.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

Still mor majestic shalt thou rise,
More dreadful from each foreign stroke;
As the loud blast that tears the skies,
Serves but to root thy native oak.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

Thee haughty tyrants ne'er shall tame,
All their attempts to bend thee down
Will but arouse thy generous flame;
But work their woe, and thy renown.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

To thee belongs the rural reign;
They cities shall with commerce shine;
All thine shall be the subject main,
And every shore it circles thine.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

The Muses, still with freedom found,
Shall to thy happy coast repair;
Blest Isle! With matchless beauty crowned,
And manly hearts to juide the fair.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves.

--
~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~
------------------------------------------------------
One site: http://www.balderstone.ca
The other site, with ww linkshttp://www.woodenwabbits.com

On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:51:22 -0500, "Morris Dovey"
wrote:

I send my condolences and good wishes to not only the woodworkers, but
all of the good people in London and throughout the UK.

I doubt the terrorists realize the extent to which they are
strengthening the bonds between those they attack - and I earnestly
hope they learn that they make themselves brother to no man.

I second you in your condolences and wish fervently for the day when
the progeny of both Isaac and Ishmael will sit at the same table, in
peace, understanding, and forgiveness.

It seems a long way off, these days.



Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)

On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:51:22 -0500, "Morris Dovey" wrote:

I send my condolences and good wishes to not only the woodworkers, but
all of the good people in London and throughout the UK.


From here as well; I hope none of our British WW colleagues were harmed
by these animals.

I doubt the terrorists realize the extent to which they are
strengthening the bonds between those they attack - and I earnestly
hope they learn that they make themselves brother to no man.

... and hopefully also strengthening our resolve. Terrorists can only
survive and flourish with the imprimatur of nations or groups that coddle
and nurture them. Having the free people of the world divided against one
another while those who would kill and enslave us are wandering free to
commit more such acts is not the way to stop these madmen.





+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On 8 Jul 2005 14:33:49 GMT, Michael Burton
mhburton@tbird-hardwoodsdotcom wrote:



My condolences as well.

And mine as well.

I also noticed the Egyptian Ambassador was
kindnapped and killed in Iraq the other day. It seems the Islamofascists
(to borrow a word) are trying to see if they can **** off the entire world
at the same time.

It is often claimed that Islam "promotes peace and security to all
mankind ... [and] does not allow lawless action against innocent
people."

BUT, according to the Koran, the only "innocents" are heterosexual
Muslims, and Islamic law permits horrendous acts of brutality against
disbelievers. For example, the Koran instructs believers to:

* scourge (flog) disbelieving women (4:34)
* kill disbelievers wherever they may be found (4:89, 9:5)
* assume all disbelievers hate Muslims (3:118)
* not take Jews or Christians as friends (5:51)
* let disbelievers kill their own children (6:137)

And in particular, every single Muslim who prays for non-Muslim dead
(as happened after the September 11th attacks, for example) has sinned
according to 9:84:

"And never (O Muhammad) pray for one of them who dieth, nor stand by
his grave. Lo! they disbelieved in Allah and His messenger, and they
died while they were evil-doers."

So, it's easy to understand why an individual force-fed this can
readily turn their hand to NYC, Bali, Madrid and London.

I wonder if there's any chance of religions being held accountable for
they evil they can do?

In article ,
"Morris Dovey" wrote:

I send my condolences and good wishes to not only the woodworkers, but
all of the good people in London and throughout the UK.

I doubt the terrorists realize the extent to which they are
strengthening the bonds between those they attack - and I earnestly
hope they learn that they make themselves brother to no man.

I also am deeply disgusted by this last batch of senseless killing.
My condolences to all the families and the entire UK as a whole.

It has become increasingly difficult to see who is taking what fight to
whom. The hard part for me is to accept that radical fanaticism only
exists in Islamic guise. Atrocities are taking place on both sides of
the fence and 'taking the fight to the terrorists' doesn't seem to be
working.... in fact (imho) the strengthening of the bonds is a sword
that cuts both ways.
Again, I ask myself who benefits from this last action?
..
..
..
..
..
..
I do not intend to start a flame war, and I'm always open to the
viewpoints of others. Remove the BULL from my addy.

Morris Dovey wrote in :

I send my condolences and good wishes to not only the woodworkers, but
all of the good people in London and throughout the UK.

I doubt the terrorists realize the extent to which they are
strengthening the bonds between those they attack - and I earnestly
hope they learn that they make themselves brother to no man.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html



My condolences as well. We have a unique bond with the Brits since a
lot of us are blood kin in the true sense of the word. They are distant
cousins, but nontheless still cousins of ours. My family comes from
Scotland and England originally with a little Cherokee thrown in the mix.
Bombing people will do nothing more than strengthen their
determination to fight and swing others who were originally against
fighting to the "for" column. I also noticed the Egyptian Ambassador was
kindnapped and killed in Iraq the other day. It seems the Islamofascists
(to borrow a word) are trying to see if they can **** off the entire world
at the same time.

--
Michael Burton
Thunderbird Hardwoods
mhburton at tbird-hardwoods dot com

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
It has become increasingly difficult to see who is taking what fight to
whom. The hard part for me is to accept that radical fanaticism only
exists in Islamic guise. Atrocities are taking place on both sides of
the fence and 'taking the fight to the terrorists' doesn't seem to be
working.... in fact (imho) the strengthening of the bonds is a sword
that cuts both ways.
Again, I ask myself who benefits from this last action?
.
.


Yea, if we would just back off and leave them alone, then they would go
away. Riiiight. Dip****!
--
Bill Pounds
http://www.billpounds.com/woodshop

In article ,
"Pounds on Wood" wrote:

Yea, if we would just back off and leave them alone, then they would go
away. Riiiight. Dip****!

...and who suggested that?

"Pounds on Wood" wrote in
:



"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
It has become increasingly difficult to see who is taking what fight to
whom. The hard part for me is to accept that radical fanaticism only
exists in Islamic guise. Atrocities are taking place on both sides of
the fence and 'taking the fight to the terrorists' doesn't seem to be
working.... in fact (imho) the strengthening of the bonds is a sword
that cuts both ways.
Again, I ask myself who benefits from this last action?
.
.


Yea, if we would just back off and leave them alone, then they would go
away. Riiiight. Dip****!

That's NOT what I read in Rob's note.

Questioning who benefits from this MIGHT lead to an understanding of
motivation. Knowing who is against you, and why, is key to a resolution,
through whatever means is available.

Retaliate against the wrong 'them', and really lose.

Patriarch

An understanding here can never be reached. Unfortunate to say, but
unless we resort to the tactics of the Mongolian hordes and start
killing the families and loved ones of the perpetrators everytime they
do this, they won't stop. They have no regard for their own life.

Anyway, condolences to the UK, but they WILL prevail...

-Jim

jtpr wrote:
An understanding here can never be reached. Unfortunate to say, but
unless we resort to the tactics of the Mongolian hordes and start
killing the families and loved ones of the perpetrators everytime they
do this, they won't stop. They have no regard for their own life.

Anyway, condolences to the UK, but they WILL prevail...

-Jim

Their leaders have plenty of regard for their own lives. It's the young
and the stupid who follow those leaders and kill themselves. Kill
enough of the leaders while trying to improve the lives of others and
htings may change, though, in fact, most of this is a Muslim problem.
Have you yet heard of a prominent Muslim cleric condemning these
animals as they condemned Salman Rushdie? No fatwa, no nothing
constructive from the clerics, and until that happens, no matter what
we do, there will be no change.

On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:51:22 -0500, "Morris Dovey" wrote:

I send my condolences and good wishes to not only the woodworkers, but
all of the good people in London and throughout the UK.

I doubt the terrorists realize the extent to which they are
strengthening the bonds between those they attack - and I earnestly
hope they learn that they make themselves brother to no man.

It's a stupid way to promote whatever they're promoting.. and not exactly
Islamic... FWIK of Islam, taking a non combatant's life, especially the life of
a women or child, is not cool...

My guess is that they become terrorists because it works and it's almost
impossible to stop.. you can't kill every suspect and since most of these wacked
out assholes are willing to die for their "cause", killing them doesn't do much
good..

I wish I had an answer to it, but I don't know any more about how to stop it now
than I did 35 years ago in Nam... the sweet little old lady that does your
laundry might be leaving a satchel charge while she's doing it, or the kids that
you give candy to every day might be expert snipers at night, etc... hard to
fight an invisible enemy, but we have to do something.. YMMV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote:

On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:51:22 -0500, "Morris Dovey" wrote:
[snip]
It's a stupid way to promote whatever they're promoting.. and not exactly
Islamic... FWIK of Islam, taking a non combatant's life, especially the life of
a women or child, is not cool...

My guess is that they become terrorists because it works and it's almost
impossible to stop.. you can't kill every suspect and since most of these wacked
out assholes are willing to die for their "cause", killing them doesn't do much
good..

I wish I had an answer to it, but I don't know any more about how to stop it now
than I did 35 years ago in Nam... the sweet little old lady that does your
laundry might be leaving a satchel charge while she's doing it, or the kids that
you give candy to every day might be expert snipers at night, etc... hard to
fight an invisible enemy, but we have to do something.. YMMV


mac
Most of the "whackos" are guys with no job and no prospects. There are
tons of these and they are recruiting fodder for clerics who can promise
them better. We need better intelligence, intelligent interpretation,
and imaginative strategists who can devise a reasonable doable plan to
alleviate the situations. War is NOT a good answer unless the bad guys
are on your shores. How does one move people into creating jobs that
pay a fair wage?
curiouser and curiouser,
jo4hn

In article ,
Michael Burton mhburton@tbird-hardwoodsdotcom wrote:

[snipperified for brevity]

Bombing people will do nothing more than strengthen their
determination to fight and swing others who were originally against
fighting to the "for" column. I also noticed the Egyptian Ambassador was
kindnapped and killed in Iraq the other day. It seems the Islamofascists
(to borrow a word) are trying to see if they can **** off the entire world
at the same time

In a corrupt society, would it be much of a stretch to fan the flames of
a conflict in order to advance one's political agenda, as well as
appeasing the campaign donors especially if they include very large
defense contractors?

I really hate to oversimplify the 'who benefits angle' and I have
heard/read way too many conspiracy theories to realize there are a lot
of whackos out there, but with giant oil companies having so much at
stake, I can't help but wonder.

I live in a country where the Prime Minister owns Canada Steamship
Lines. That company moves a LOT of coal (electrical power) grain (food)
iron ore (industry).. how can there NOT be a conflict of interest?
Same thing with Chany/Haliburton, Bush Sr./Carlisle Group and on and
on... Condi Rice has her name on a supertanker..LOL

Boggles my beautiful mind. G

Almost as much as this:

Bush went AWOL. Cheney never served, nor did Karl Rove, Donald Rumsfeld,
Paul Wolfowitz, John Ashcroft, Richard Pearle, Rush Limbaugh, Bill
O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Newt Gingrich, Condi Rice, John
Bolton, Bill Bennett, Tom DeLay, Jeb Bush, Trent Lott, Ted Nugent and
many more people who have no problem ordering your kids to go and die,
or go on TV and tell the country how great this war is.

I was cheering the British all the way to The Falklands...so a
'peace-nik' I'm not.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Michael Burton mhburton@tbird-hardwoodsdotcom wrote:

[snipperified for brevity]

Bombing people will do nothing more than strengthen their
determination to fight and swing others who were originally against
fighting to the "for" column. I also noticed the Egyptian Ambassador was
kindnapped and killed in Iraq the other day. It seems the Islamofascists
(to borrow a word) are trying to see if they can **** off the entire
world
at the same time

In a corrupt society, would it be much of a stretch to fan the flames of
a conflict in order to advance one's political agenda, as well as
appeasing the campaign donors especially if they include very large
defense contractors?


Presumably we atre talking about the so called Democratic leadership now
that the press is inferring the war in Iraq is not popular with the general
public.


I really hate to oversimplify the 'who benefits angle' and I have
heard/read way too many conspiracy theories to realize there are a lot
of whackos out there, but with giant oil companies having so much at
stake, I can't help but wonder.

I live in a country where the Prime Minister owns Canada Steamship
Lines. That company moves a LOT of coal (electrical power) grain (food)
iron ore (industry).. how can there NOT be a conflict of interest?


I fail to see that as a problem unless he is giving them sweetheart deals
,and of course you can prove that....


Same thing with Chany/Haliburton, Bush Sr./Carlisle Group and on and
on... Condi Rice has her name on a supertanker..LOL

Same comment as above, in the US if one is serving in the government I was
under the impression that everything was in escrow.On the other hand perhaps
you havea problem with private enterprise


Boggles my beautiful mind. G

Almost as much as this:

Bush went AWOL.

I was under the impression that in the end it was proven that Bush did not
go AWOL.

Cheney never served, nor did Karl Rove, Donald Rumsfeld,
Paul Wolfowitz, John Ashcroft, Richard Pearle, Rush Limbaugh, Bill
O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Newt Gingrich, Condi Rice, John
Bolton, Bill Bennett, Tom DeLay, Jeb Bush, Trent Lott, Ted Nugent and
many more people who have no problem ordering your kids to go and die,
or go on TV and tell the country how great this war is.

You can probably count the number that served in the armed forces in the US
congress on one if not two hands . Some are too young to have been subject
to the draft, women at that time were not drafted and some were serving in
government positions or were deferred because they were working in sensitive
defense contractor positions.

I was cheering the British all the way to The Falklands...so a
'peace-nik' I'm not.

Pity you dont cheer on the Brits and American boys in Iraq , hopefully it
will not take a similar attack on Toronto or Montreal before you do....mjh

Snippppppppp
" Most of the "whackos" are guys with no job and no prospects. There are
tons of these and they are recruiting fodder for clerics who can promise
them better. We need better intelligence, intelligent interpretation,
and imaginative strategists who can devise a reasonable doable plan to
alleviate the situations. War is NOT a good answer unless the bad guys
are on your shores. How does one move people into creating jobs that
pay a fair wage?
curiouser and curiouser,
jo4

Why not ask the dam clerics and the mullas , what do they offer other than 4
and 20 virgins......

"jtpr" wrote in news:1120842327.827374.270710
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

An understanding here can never be reached. Unfortunate to say, but
unless we resort to the tactics of the Mongolian hordes and start
killing the families and loved ones of the perpetrators everytime they
do this, they won't stop. They have no regard for their own life.

Anyway, condolences to the UK, but they WILL prevail...

-Jim


Agree with the second.

You may have misunderstood the first. An understanding, as in we
understand their motives and goals. Not an understanding, as in an
agreement or treaty.

I have no idea as to what constitutes an appropriate, or effective
response. Clearly, my value system differs greatly from theirs in many
significant ways.

Patriarch

Barry Lennox wrote in
:

snip

I wonder if there's any chance of religions being held accountable for
they evil they can do?


I pretty much count on it. And individuals as well.

Patriarch

"Patriarch" wrote in message

I wonder if there's any chance of religions being held accountable for
they evil they can do?

I pretty much count on it. And individuals as well.

Not so much in the past, but more and more in the present. As far as I'm
concerned, religion has accounted for more strife and misery in the world
than any other human condition. The atrocities that have been committed
under the guise of religious belief are truly abhorrent. Any good that has
been done by way of religious commitment has been overwhelmed by those that
have subverted it to their own purposes.

Ask me if I have any use for religion?

"Upscale" wrote in
:

Not so much in the past, but more and more in the present. As far as
I'm concerned, religion has accounted for more strife and misery in
the world than any other human condition. The atrocities that have
been committed under the guise of religious belief are truly
abhorrent. Any good that has been done by way of religious commitment
has been overwhelmed by those that have subverted it to their own
purposes.

Ask me if I have any use for religion?


More importantly, are you one who is willing to misuse religion? To meet
your own goals?

Those folks are the enemy of good, however you define it.

Patriarch

In article et,
jo4hn wrote:
[snip]

Most of the "whackos" are guys with no job and no prospects. There are
tons of these and they are recruiting fodder for clerics who can promise
them better.

Substitute 'clerics' for 'recruiters'.... and you have a glimpse of
where the army of today is hoping to get their men for tomorrow.
That does not mean they cannot become good soldiers, of course.

I think the real whackos are created in those religious schools and seem
to be mostly the non-military types. The word 'brainwashing' comes to
mind. 73 virgins upon death...tell you what..*I* will offer 75 virgins
PLUS your own fully loaded Boeing 747 for your pimping pleasure if you
support *my* cause.

In article ,
"mike hide" wrote:

Presumably we atre talking about the so called Democratic leadership now
that the press is inferring the war in Iraq is not popular with the general
public.

Democratic as in Democrats or as in Democracy?
The way I understand it, that Democrats are somewhat like our
Liberals...our Conservatives are more like Republicans. We also have
Socialists up here although in a small minority.

As a private entrepreneur, I certainly don't subscribe to the socialist
agenda. The Liberals have produced a few decent Prime Ministers as have
the Conservatives. Both parties have produced PM's that completely
screwed us over... I'm sure that you are familiar with that phenomena as
well as Bush ain't no Reagan and Clinton was no LBJ.


I fail to see that as a problem unless he is giving them sweetheart deals
,and of course you can prove that....

The fact that an ordinary citizen can't get close enough to prove or
disprove anything like that has occurred to you?

Same thing with Chany/Haliburton, Bush Sr./Carlisle Group and on and
on... Condi Rice has her name on a supertanker..LOL

Same comment as above, in the US if one is serving in the government I was
under the impression that everything was in escrow.On the other hand perhaps
you havea problem with private enterprise

You are just full of assumptions, eh?
Haliburton got the no-bid contracts, so therefore I have NO problem with
private enterprise... wish I could land gigs that way. They are being
investigated for being too accurate and honest in their business
practises. And Chany doesn't care where his checks are coming from. It
is all lilly white and on the up-'n-up, right?
If you believe that, I have 73 virgins.. free... actually 72, I got rid
of one because she liked Country & Western music.

Boggles my beautiful mind. G

Almost as much as this:

Bush went AWOL.

I was under the impression that in the end it was proven that Bush did not
go AWOL.

He didn't get any fast-track treatment either. I know this for a fact,
as we get FOX News up here too.


Pity you dont cheer on the Brits and American boys in Iraq , hopefully it
will not take a similar attack on Toronto or Montreal before you do....mjh

You seem so sure that Iraq was the right country to invade.
My cheering on the Brits on the way to the Falklands does not preclude
my support for the guys in Iraq or our Canadian boys in Afghanistan. Not
their fault they're there. Just following orders. I understand.

As far as attacks on Montreal or Toronto go, I'm with you hoping that it
will never happen. Last thing this planet needs is a bunch of ****ed-off
Canadians.

In article ,
"Upscale" wrote:

Ask me if I have any use for religion?

I do not believe in organized religion.
I do not believe in organized crime.
I do not believe in organized tours.

I think religion is a personal decision. No need to attach it to a
building with a dozen committees configuring pie-fests.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
In article et,
jo4hn wrote:
[snip]

Most of the "whackos" are guys with no job and no prospects. There are
tons of these and they are recruiting fodder for clerics who can promise
them better.

Substitute 'clerics' for 'recruiters'.... and you have a glimpse of
where the army of today is hoping to get their men for tomorrow.
That does not mean they cannot become good soldiers, of course.

I think the real whackos are created in those religious schools and seem
to be mostly the non-military types. The word 'brainwashing' comes to
mind. 73 virgins upon death...tell you what..*I* will offer 75 virgins
PLUS your own fully loaded Boeing 747 for your pimping pleasure if you
support *my* cause.

Now in these times of political correctness to monitor every mosque, every
mullah and every cleric in this country and if they advocate murder of other
human beings either jail then ,deport them or kill them. they are the
cancers in our societies..

"Barry Lennox" wrote in message
...
I wonder if there's any chance of religions being held accountable for
they evil they can do?

Like Christianity?

"CW" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Barry Lennox" wrote in message
...
I wonder if there's any chance of religions being held accountable for
they evil they can do?

Like Christianity?

That's just about the stupidest thing I've read in a while. Neither Islam
nor Christianity is killing people today. However, some evil assholes
operating under the guise of religion have followers who they've convinced
to do some bad stuff. I'll lay odds that if there was no such thing as
religion, the evil assholes would just find another way to sell their ideas.

However, if someone claiming to be a Christian blew up a bus, every
prominent Christian minister would denounce it. Can you say the same for
Islam?

todd

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:34:07 -0700, mac davis
wrote:

On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:51:22 -0500, "Morris Dovey" wrote:

I send my condolences and good wishes to not only the woodworkers, but
all of the good people in London and throughout the UK.

I doubt the terrorists realize the extent to which they are
strengthening the bonds between those they attack - and I earnestly
hope they learn that they make themselves brother to no man.

It's a stupid way to promote whatever they're promoting.. and not exactly
Islamic... FWIK of Islam, taking a non combatant's life, especially the life of
a women or child, is not cool...


and it was an absolutely brilliant strategic attack --- NOT. Here they
picked a time to attack when the western leaders were meeting to pressure
one another and particularly the US into adopting some policies that could
help derail western civilization (e.g., reducing CO2 emissions by 60% in
the UK by 2010(?) or therebouts) and adopt policies to pay yet more
patronage to dictators and tyrants in Africa where that money could be
funnelled to the cause. Instead, this attack overshadowed the whole G8
party, led to more unity regarding anti-terrorism and basically ****ed off
the Brits possibly strengthening their resolve. The attacks in Spain may
have led to complete surrender and capitulation, but Britain doesn't seem
wired that way.

My guess is that they become terrorists because it works and it's almost
impossible to stop.. you can't kill every suspect and since most of these wacked
out assholes are willing to die for their "cause", killing them doesn't do much
good..


While the mullahs and the schools are capable of brainwashing and making
the desperate into angry, resigned, and desperate, it still takes support
to turn those angry desperate brainwashed people into successful terrorists
-- money, training, logistics, equipment, etc. That kind of supply comes
from either tacit support from various governments or other wealthy
supporters -- cut that off and you just have a bunch of angry, desperate,
brainwashed and uneducated people stuck in their country of origin rather
than able to travel to other countries with the appropriate papers and
financial and logistics support. You are right, we can't go after the
animals one at a time as they enter the countries they are going to attack,
we have to find out how and who is funding and supporting them and cut that
off.


I wish I had an answer to it, but I don't know any more about how to stop it now
than I did 35 years ago in Nam... the sweet little old lady that does your
laundry might be leaving a satchel charge while she's doing it, or the kids that
you give candy to every day might be expert snipers at night, etc... hard to
fight an invisible enemy, but we have to do something.. YMMV


You have to cut off the supply and source to the terrorists -- yes, they
can decapitate one person at a time if all they have is knives, but they
are also more vulnerable and isolated. Your invisible enemy in Vietnam was
being supplied and you weren't allowed to seriously affect the source of
their support. We can't let that happen with the current situation; those
who are perpetrating these acts are after more than just control of a few
third world countries.



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

mac davis wrote:
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:51:22 -0500, "Morris Dovey" wrote:


I send my condolences and good wishes to not only the woodworkers, but
all of the good people in London and throughout the UK.

I doubt the terrorists realize the extent to which they are
strengthening the bonds between those they attack - and I earnestly
hope they learn that they make themselves brother to no man.


It's a stupid way to promote whatever they're promoting.. and not exactly
Islamic... FWIK of Islam, taking a non combatant's life, especially the life of
a women or child, is not cool...

My guess is that they become terrorists because it works and it's almost
impossible to stop.. you can't kill every suspect and since most of these wacked
out assholes are willing to die for their "cause", killing them doesn't do much
good..

I wish I had an answer to it, but I don't know any more about how to stop it now
than I did 35 years ago in Nam... the sweet little old lady that does your
laundry might be leaving a satchel charge while she's doing it, or the kids that
you give candy to every day might be expert snipers at night, etc... hard to
fight an invisible enemy, but we have to do something.. YMMV


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing
I don't have any "Politically correct" answers and I don't reckon our
Govt's do either.
However I do have a feeling that the terrorists are really pushing the
bounds of sanity and the only outcome's are a) Staggering about in the
dark, as we are, and taking out a few here and there and gritting our
teeth and suffering our loses, both military and civilian.
b)Stepping back to a WWII style incarceration of POSSIBLE terrorists and
an all out war on countries that show any support for these animals.
Neither option appeals. but we have to do something.
As for the Poms, They like a good blue and know how to face up to the
seemingly impossible. If there is one country that can soldier on it's them.
My condolences and thoughts to all who suffered loses and will continue
to do so to these useless *******s.
John

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
I send my condolences and good wishes to not only the woodworkers, but
all of the good people in London and throughout the UK.

I doubt the terrorists realize the extent to which they are
strengthening the bonds between those they attack - and I earnestly
hope they learn that they make themselves brother to no man.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html


I have family scattered throughout England, fortunately none live in London
nor were any enroute thereto at the time, and I echo your sentiments
wholeheartedly. I doubt that the perpetrators or their controllers will
learn the lesson, I hope not until it is too late, and they will too late
realize that they have alienated the entire civilized world. I was heartened
to see that the Enlish population, still reeling from the shock of these
dastardly deeds, returned to work today and the country continued on in as
normal a fashion as was possible. The terrorists only gain from the murder
of innocents if their acts cause people to change the way they conduct their
lives as a result of the terrorism. If their acts are ignored and people
carry on, the bombings have no meaning and only point out the immorality of
those that perpetrated the acts. Once again, I am very proud of the
deportment of the English, from the Royals down to the people in the
streets.

Dave D

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 22:59:49 -0500, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:

"CW" wrote in message
link.net...

"Barry Lennox" wrote in message
...
I wonder if there's any chance of religions being held accountable for
they evil they can do?

Like Christianity?

That's just about the stupidest thing I've read in a while. Neither Islam
nor Christianity is killing people today. However, some evil assholes
operating under the guise of religion have followers who they've convinced
to do some bad stuff. I'll lay odds that if there was no such thing as
religion, the evil assholes would just find another way to sell their ideas.

However, if someone claiming to be a Christian blew up a bus, every
prominent Christian minister would denounce it. Can you say the same for
Islam?

Of course not, they hide behind the Koran, that's why some of them
should be held accountable.

That raises a rather interesting point that has never been answered.
When they declared that Salmon Rushdie was to be put to death and some
clerics in the UK called for somebody to carry it out, not one of them
was charged with encouraging a person to commit an offence, (That is
an offence under the Crimes Act, and I'll bet there is similar
legislation in most countries).

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 20:34:42 -0400, "mike hide"
wrote:

Now in these times of political correctness to monitor every mosque, every
mullah and every cleric in this country and if they advocate murder of other
human beings either jail then ,deport them or kill them.

You'd wipe out half of country music too. For every Imam crying for
Jihad there's just as many good ol' boys with "nuke 'em till they glow"
bumper stickers.

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 19:52:15 -0400, Robatoy
wrote:

In article ,
"mike hide" wrote:

Presumably we atre talking about the so called Democratic leadership now
that the press is inferring the war in Iraq is not popular with the general
public.

Democratic as in Democrats or as in Democracy?
The way I understand it, that Democrats are somewhat like our
Liberals...our Conservatives are more like Republicans. We also have
Socialists up here although in a small minority.

Is *our* Canadian or British here? Either way, the way I understand
it (judging from BBC radio) is that US Democrats are like European
conservatives, and Republicans are far right of anything in other
western societies. I think our Greens are more like your liberals
than the Democrats are, but they're a very weak party.

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 19:57:39 -0400, Robatoy
wrote:

In article ,
"Upscale" wrote:

Ask me if I have any use for religion?

I do not believe in organized religion.
I do not believe in organized crime.
I do not believe in organized tours.

I think religion is a personal decision. No need to attach it to a
building with a dozen committees configuring pie-fests.

Agreed. I quit my church several years ago, after realizing that not
only did I not care what anyone else thought about my beliefs, but
having a group of people haggling over the whole deal was turning some
of them into wild-eyed zealots. I figure a good religion should have
no more than 3 or 4 members- there's a lot lower chance of crusades
that way.

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 22:55:05 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:34:07 -0700, mac davis
wrote:

and it was an absolutely brilliant strategic attack --- NOT. Here they
picked a time to attack when the western leaders were meeting to pressure
one another and particularly the US into adopting some policies that could
help derail western civilization (e.g., reducing CO2 emissions by 60% in
the UK by 2010(?) or therebouts) and adopt policies to pay yet more
patronage to dictators and tyrants in Africa where that money could be
funnelled to the cause. Instead, this attack overshadowed the whole G8
party, led to more unity regarding anti-terrorism and basically ****ed off
the Brits possibly strengthening their resolve. The attacks in Spain may
have led to complete surrender and capitulation, but Britain doesn't seem
wired that way.

That's what I like about the British- most of them are people with
some steel in their spines. I was damn sorry to hear about the
attacks in London, but you guys just took it on the chin and went back
to work- really inspiring, and I mean that.

As a Brit and fellow Londoner, I feel I should say something.

Whilst people here are of course upset and maybe angry, its really not a
tremendously strong feeling, unless one is really closely connected with
what happened.

I live near Wimbledon, which is some 12 miles or so from where the bombs
went off - and yet it feels a long way away (I happen not to travel into
London). Having said that, one of my collegue's wife normally works in one
of the london mainline train stations, but she happen to be taking a day
off.

My sister in law came round today. First time I've seen her for a couple of
months - she lives about 6 miles away. So, what was the topic of
conversation, room decoration, and the blooming relationships her offspring
were experiencing - normal stuff. Not anger and what had been happening in
London.

We just kind-off accept it. I like many, I think, feel that this has been
inevitable. Together with the USA, Britain has made a considerable number
of enemies around the world over the last years. Its clearly regretable,
but at the time, the outcry from the population when the invasion was
started, was not sufficiently strong to change the mind of our politiions.
I'm not sure what would have changed our prime minister's thoughts, as
clearly his commitment to support the USA was a powerful one, although his
does project himself as a man of principle in his own right.

For many people here, the idea of the war would be more palatable without
the religious connertation. I, as many indeed most people in the UK, are
very relaxed about religion - I don't believe in it myself, and I see much
bigotry and damage that it does to close people's minds. Yet, in the UK,
church attendence is probably at its lowest ebb of all time - maybe due to
the laxk of hardship being felt by the population - maybe religions thrive
when one wants to believe in something better. Non-christian religions have
faired better in the UK, and certainly one does not see the strong religious
feels within the Christian communities - but one does, in the non-christian
communities.

Cutting off fundiong for extremists, does not seem to work. It takes bugger
to buy a few Kilos of exposives, or even make your own. Sure, you can't
wage a war, but you can bring a city to a halt. The real battle has to be a
combination of avoiding the problem in the first place (!) and cutting off
access to recruites - which in turn means avoiding the extream
disenfranchising of the people in the first place. Of course, you will
still get loonies, who will flip out, and use whatever weapons they can in
their local church, school or what have you. THe birts really don't
understand this USA thing about firearms. We've removed them all from
general curculation - clearly criminals can still get them, but at least
loonies are limited to a machety or chain saw.

Enough rambling. I'm off to make a nice library chair -


"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 22:55:05 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:34:07 -0700, mac davis
wrote:

and it was an absolutely brilliant strategic attack --- NOT. Here they
picked a time to attack when the western leaders were meeting to pressure
one another and particularly the US into adopting some policies that could
help derail western civilization (e.g., reducing CO2 emissions by 60% in
the UK by 2010(?) or therebouts) and adopt policies to pay yet more
patronage to dictators and tyrants in Africa where that money could be
funnelled to the cause. Instead, this attack overshadowed the whole G8
party, led to more unity regarding anti-terrorism and basically ****ed off
the Brits possibly strengthening their resolve. The attacks in Spain may
have led to complete surrender and capitulation, but Britain doesn't seem
wired that way.

That's what I like about the British- most of them are people with
some steel in their spines. I was damn sorry to hear about the
attacks in London, but you guys just took it on the chin and went back
to work- really inspiring, and I mean that.

Ian wrote:

As a Brit and fellow Londoner, I feel I should say something.


.....
We just kind-off accept it. I like many, I think, feel that this has been
inevitable. ...

Yes, it was, but not for thd reason you ascribe, unfortunately...

For many people here, the idea of the war would be more palatable without
the religious connertation. [sic] ....

Well, the fact is that worldwide terrorism over the last 30 years has
been the (almost) exclusive territory of one specific religious group.
There have been local others (N Ireland comes to mind close to you
Brits), but globally, that is an unfortunate fact.

Cutting off fundiong for extremists, does not seem to work. It takes bugger
to buy a few Kilos of exposives, or even make your own. Sure, you can't
wage a war, but you can bring a city to a halt. The real battle has to be a
combination of avoiding the problem in the first place (!) and cutting off
access to recruites - which in turn means avoiding the extream
disenfranchising of the people in the first place. ...

Well, it will certainly put a crimp (eventually) in the large
organizations' ability to make large-scale attacks possible--I think the
reason it isn't obvious yet is more one of simply not enough time for
actions to have taken real effect and still lots more to be done to stop
the flow. As for recruits, eliminating the propoganda of the zealots
would go a long way...if the leaders in the ME were nearly as interested
in develping their peoples' lives as opposed to promoting their own
agendas it would (again, eventually) make a significant difference.

Morris Dovey wrote:

I send my condolences and good wishes to not only the woodworkers, but
all of the good people in London and throughout the UK.

I doubt the terrorists realize the extent to which they are
strengthening the bonds between those they attack - and I earnestly
hope they learn that they make themselves brother to no man.

Thanks Morris,
We've been being bombed by terrorists for years and are fairly resilient
to such things, unfortuneately a large amount of the funding for
terrorism here came from the USA in the past, this lot however are much
harder than the christian extreamists to track down and deal with.

There have been numerous terrorists groups, and they rarely share a
religious theame. I can accept that world wide terrorest groups have been
few and far between - most are tackling a particular local issue - whether
it be something in Ireland, of France (neither of which are linked to the
world wide movements, except regarding shared training etc). The same could
be said for terrorists in manyh parts of Africa.



"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Ian wrote:

As a Brit and fellow Londoner, I feel I should say something.


....
We just kind-off accept it. I like many, I think, feel that this has
been
inevitable. ...

Yes, it was, but not for thd reason you ascribe, unfortunately...

For many people here, the idea of the war would be more palatable without
the religious connertation. [sic] ....

Well, the fact is that worldwide terrorism over the last 30 years has
been the (almost) exclusive territory of one specific religious group.
There have been local others (N Ireland comes to mind close to you
Brits), but globally, that is an unfortunate fact.

Cutting off fundiong for extremists, does not seem to work. It takes
bugger
to buy a few Kilos of exposives, or even make your own. Sure, you can't
wage a war, but you can bring a city to a halt. The real battle has to
be a
combination of avoiding the problem in the first place (!) and cutting
off
access to recruites - which in turn means avoiding the extream
disenfranchising of the people in the first place. ...

Well, it will certainly put a crimp (eventually) in the large
organizations' ability to make large-scale attacks possible--I think the
reason it isn't obvious yet is more one of simply not enough time for
actions to have taken real effect and still lots more to be done to stop
the flow. As for recruits, eliminating the propoganda of the zealots
would go a long way...if the leaders in the ME were nearly as interested
in develping their peoples' lives as opposed to promoting their own
agendas it would (again, eventually) make a significant difference.