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#1
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Erbauer drills 14.4V vs 18V?
I'm (still) in the market for a new cordless combi drill, and am coming
close to settling for an Erbauer, based on a combination of price vs quality (as judged from uk.d-i-y reviews!) I'm puzzled that the 14.4V model is priced 20 quid cheaper than the 18V model, in the absence of any apparent special offers: 14.4V (100 GBP) http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...18841&id=64978 18V (80 GBP) http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...18841&id=71776 The 18V one seems to outperform the 14.V in every aspect but weight (2.6kg vs 2.0kg) - is that the issue? or am I missing the obvious? Thanks for any feedback David |
#2
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Lobster wrote:
I'm (still) in the market for a new cordless combi drill, and am coming close to settling for an Erbauer, based on a combination of price vs quality (as judged from uk.d-i-y reviews!) I'm puzzled that the 14.4V model is priced 20 quid cheaper than the 18V model, in the absence of any apparent special offers: 14.4V (100 GBP) http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...18841&id=64978 18V (80 GBP) http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...18841&id=71776 The 18V one seems to outperform the 14.V in every aspect but weight (2.6kg vs 2.0kg) - is that the issue? or am I missing the obvious? Isn't that strange? I had the 18V for a while, and was pretty happy with it until it failed. It developed play between the motor and the casing after 18 months reasonably hard work, and went back for a refund. It is certainly a better drill than PPPro etc., and significantly more torquey than an 18V Ryobi. Just make sure you keep the receipt. -- Grunff |
#3
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Grunff wrote:
I had the 18V for a while, and was pretty happy with it until it failed. It developed play between the motor and the casing after 18 months reasonably hard work, and went back for a refund. It is certainly a better drill than PPPro etc., and significantly more torquey than an 18V Ryobi. Last PPPro drill I had _was_ a Ryobi - though possibly built down to the (much lower) price B&Q were flogging it for. |
#4
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On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:18:18 GMT, Lobster
wrote: I'm (still) in the market for a new cordless combi drill, and am coming close to settling for an Erbauer, based on a combination of price vs quality (as judged from uk.d-i-y reviews!) I'm puzzled that the 14.4V model is priced 20 quid cheaper than the 18V model, in the absence of any apparent special offers: 14.4V (100 GBP) http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...18841&id=64978 18V (80 GBP) http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...18841&id=71776 The 18V one seems to outperform the 14.V in every aspect but weight (2.6kg vs 2.0kg) - is that the issue? or am I missing the obvious? Thanks for any feedback David Don't buy either of these. You can get a Makita 14.4v 6228 with two batteries for the same or little more money and have far better results than with either of these unknown products. In the highly unlikely event that you need spares or service in the future you will be able to get it. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#6
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#7
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"Mark" wrote in message ... Andy Hall am typed: On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:18:18 GMT, Lobster wrote: I'm (still) in the market for a new cordless combi drill, and am SNIP David Don't buy either of these. You can get a Makita 14.4v 6228 with two batteries for the same or little more money A combi drill I think not. c £243 although I agree that makita are fine tools, if you can justify the cost. Try Wickes (Kress) up to £180 depending on what you want. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
#8
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Doctor Evil typed:
I'm (still) in the market for a new cordless combi drill, and am SNIP David Don't buy either of these. You can get a Makita 14.4v 6228 with two batteries for the same or little more money A combi drill I think not. c £243 although I agree that makita are fine tools, if you can justify the cost. Try Wickes (Kress) up to £180 depending on what you want. No Hitachi would be a much better compromise at that price. http://www.tool-net.co.uk/data/index.php?ToolID=318300 http://www.tool-net.co.uk/data/index.php?ToolID=313784 |
#9
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On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 23:21:22 GMT, "Mark" wrote:
Andy Hall am typed: On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:18:18 GMT, Lobster wrote: I'm (still) in the market for a new cordless combi drill, and am SNIP David Don't buy either of these. You can get a Makita 14.4v 6228 with two batteries for the same or little more money A combi drill I think not. c £243 although I agree that makita are fine tools, if you can justify the cost. There is very little point in buying a cheap cordless combi drill. The mechanics and control of the motor are simply not up to any meaningful hammer action for any length of time. A far better solution is to buy a good quality cordless drill as I have suggested (this will do anything up to and including light to medium masonry work) and then a corded hammer or SDS drill for heavier masonry work. Given a period of a couple of years at the most, after which these unknown specials will have fallen apart and the name long forgotten, let alone any spares, the overall outlay in buying something decent in the first place will be less. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#10
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 23:21:22 GMT, "Mark" wrote: Andy Hall am typed: On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:18:18 GMT, Lobster wrote: I'm (still) in the market for a new cordless combi drill, and am SNIP David Don't buy either of these. You can get a Makita 14.4v 6228 with two batteries for the same or little more money A combi drill I think not. c £243 although I agree that makita are fine tools, if you can justify the cost. There is very little point in buying a cheap cordless combi drill. The mechanics and control of the motor are simply not up to any meaningful hammer action for any length of time. A far better solution is to buy a good quality cordless drill as I have suggested (this will do anything up to and including light to medium masonry work) and then a corded hammer or SDS drill for heavier masonry work. Given a period of a couple of years at the most, after which these unknown specials will have fallen apart and the name long forgotten, let alone any spares, the overall outlay in buying something decent in the first place will be less. But you can get 10 of those for one Makita, so they are more cost effective. And in time Lith Iron or Lith Poly batteries would have been introduced. Better than being lumbered for 10 years with outdated stuff with old battery technology. A man on this group has just bought a conventional flued cast iron boiler. This is outdated old technology now. If he has this 15-20 years, in 15 years it will be an museum piece. Could be the same as buying an expensive battery drill. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
#11
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Doctor Evil wrote:
But you can get 10 of those for one Makita, so they are more cost effective. And in time Lith Iron or Lith Poly batteries would have been introduced. Better than being lumbered for 10 years with outdated stuff with old battery technology. But that's kind of living for the future, isn't it? You always end up with a crappy tool, just to avoid the possibility that you might miss out on Feature X in 10 years time. You might get run over by a bus. Or assassinated. Or something. BTW, my Makita has very nice NiMH packs. Light and high capacity. -- Grunff |
#12
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On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:37:25 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
strung together this: But you can get 10 of those for one Makita, so they are more cost effective. And in time Lith Iron or Lith Poly batteries would have been introduced. Better than being lumbered for 10 years with outdated stuff with old battery technology. Utter tripe. I've had a Makita 8443 for about 3 or 4 years and in that time a cheap drill wouldn't have been able to do most of the stuff I've done with it. If I tried the cheap drill would have been knackered and I could get through more than 10 cheap battery drills for every one Makita. A man on this group ..... ......with varying aliases is an arse. -- SJW Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject |
#13
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"Mark" wrote in message ... Doctor Evil typed: I'm (still) in the market for a new cordless combi drill, and am SNIP David Don't buy either of these. You can get a Makita 14.4v 6228 with two batteries for the same or little more money A combi drill I think not. c £243 although I agree that makita are fine tools, if you can justify the cost. Try Wickes (Kress) up to £180 depending on what you want. No Hitachi would be a much better compromise at that price. http://www.tool-net.co.uk/data/index.php?ToolID=318300 http://www.tool-net.co.uk/data/index.php?ToolID=313784 Kress are cheaper and have a 3 yr guarantee. They are as equally good in quality. German with Japanese battery packs. The 14.4 v drill/driver is a lot cheaper than the Hitachi, around £60 and better guarantee, if I recall rightly. They have two SDS drills which have just been improved in power. They have been making these for the past 10 years plus and have v good reputation for reliability. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
#14
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"Grunff" wrote in message ... Doctor Evil wrote: But you can get 10 of those for one Makita, so they are more cost effective. And in time Lith Ion or Lith Poly batteries would have been introduced. Better than being lumbered for 10 years with outdated stuff with old battery technology. But that's kind of living for the future, isn't it? You always end up with a crappy tool, They are not crappy tool. The mid range offering a v good. The Makitas of this world have logevity that's all. BTW, my Makita has very nice NiMH packs. Light and high capacity. Read what I read. Lith Ion and Lith Poly batteries and now Lithium Sulphur, will be introduced as these hold 3 to 4 times the charge of the current crop. These batteries mean electric cars are now feasible with ranges of 200-300 miles. http://www.sionpower.com/pages/sion_...ogysummary.php Lithium ion & poly batteries are in many mobile phones and were developed for that market. Once R&D is finalised for larger versions of Lith Poly batteries and they have the manufacturing capability to produce millions of them, electric cars will be the norm, and probably sooner rather than later. PV cells are improving in efficiency, and the price is dropping as take up increaes, and when these Lithium batteries are available en-mass most roofs will have PV cells on them, a battery set and an inverter in the attic. This will filter into power tools too. And if you think you can just go out and buy a new Lith Poly battery for your old drill. forget it, it doesn't work that way,. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
#15
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"Lurch" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:37:25 -0000, "Doctor Evil" strung together this: But you can get 10 of those for one Makita, so they are more cost effective. And in time Lith Iron or Lith Poly batteries would have been introduced. Better than being lumbered for 10 years with outdated stuff with old battery technology. Utter tripe. I've had a Makita 8443 for about 3 or 4 years This is DIY, not pro, and..... snip the rest as it is tripe _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
#16
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On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:37:25 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . There is very little point in buying a cheap cordless combi drill. The mechanics and control of the motor are simply not up to any meaningful hammer action for any length of time. A far better solution is to buy a good quality cordless drill as I have suggested (this will do anything up to and including light to medium masonry work) and then a corded hammer or SDS drill for heavier masonry work. Given a period of a couple of years at the most, after which these unknown specials will have fallen apart and the name long forgotten, let alone any spares, the overall outlay in buying something decent in the first place will be less. But you can get 10 of those for one Makita, so they are more cost effective. Brilliant idea, I don't think. using your "logic" (or perhaps that of Mini-me) you now have ten times the problems as the batteries, motors and mechanics pack up and you waste time on each. Your thinking is certainly following that of the character you are trying to emulate. Do you have any children with Frau Whatever-her-name-was? The son thought that the Dr Evil character suffered from faulty logic to be kind about it. And in time Lith Iron or Lith Poly batteries would have been introduced. Better than being lumbered for 10 years with outdated stuff with old battery technology. A man on this group has just bought a conventional flued cast iron boiler. This is outdated old technology now. If he has this 15-20 years, in 15 years it will be an museum piece. Could be the same as buying an expensive battery drill. It could have been but isn't. If you look at Makita's battery offerings, you will note that they offer battery packs of newer technologies and capacities as they have become available. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#17
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On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:12:17 +0000, Grunff wrote:
Doctor Evil wrote: But you can get 10 of those for one Makita, so they are more cost effective. And in time Lith Iron or Lith Poly batteries would have been introduced. Better than being lumbered for 10 years with outdated stuff with old battery technology. But that's kind of living for the future, isn't it? You always end up with a crappy tool, just to avoid the possibility that you might miss out on Feature X in 10 years time. You might get run over by a bus. Or assassinated. Or something. Like having to escape in a giant willy? BTW, my Makita has very nice NiMH packs. Light and high capacity. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#18
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On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:25:19 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote: "Grunff" wrote in message ... Doctor Evil wrote: But you can get 10 of those for one Makita, so they are more cost effective. And in time Lith Ion or Lith Poly batteries would have been introduced. Better than being lumbered for 10 years with outdated stuff with old battery technology. But that's kind of living for the future, isn't it? You always end up with a crappy tool, They are not crappy tool. The mid range offering a v good. The Makitas of this world have logevity that's all. Have you ever actually owned or used one? I thought not.... -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#19
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On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:31:34 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote: "Lurch" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:37:25 -0000, "Doctor Evil" strung together this: But you can get 10 of those for one Makita, so they are more cost effective. And in time Lith Iron or Lith Poly batteries would have been introduced. Better than being lumbered for 10 years with outdated stuff with old battery technology. Utter tripe. I've had a Makita 8443 for about 3 or 4 years This is DIY, not pro, and..... If that is the case, there is no place for a claimed "pro" such as yourself, is there? -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#20
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:25:19 -0000, "Doctor Evil" wrote: "Grunff" wrote in message ... Doctor Evil wrote: But you can get 10 of those for one Makita, so they are more cost effective. And in time Lith Ion or Lith Poly batteries would have been introduced. Better than being lumbered for 10 years with outdated stuff with old battery technology. But that's kind of living for the future, isn't it? You always end up with a crappy tool, They are not crappy tool. The mid range offering a v good. The Makitas of this world have logevity that's all. Have you ever actually owned or used one? FWIW I looked at them at Interbuild last year and seemed fine. Good balance, good speed control, seemed well made. All in all a perfectly reasonable mid-range offering. I think your question could easily be turned round. Jim A |
#21
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:37:25 -0000, "Doctor Evil" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . There is very little point in buying a cheap cordless combi drill. The mechanics and control of the motor are simply not up to any meaningful hammer action for any length of time. A far better solution is to buy a good quality cordless drill as I have suggested (this will do anything up to and including light to medium masonry work) and then a corded hammer or SDS drill for heavier masonry work. Given a period of a couple of years at the most, after which these unknown specials will have fallen apart and the name long forgotten, let alone any spares, the overall outlay in buying something decent in the first place will be less. But you can get 10 of those for one Makita, so they are more cost effective. Brilliant idea, I don't think. using your "logic" (or perhaps that of Mini-me) you now have ten times the problems as the batteries, motors and mechanics pack up and you waste time on each. Your thinking is certainly following that of the character you are trying to emulate. Do you have any children with Frau Whatever-her-name-was? The son thought that the Dr Evil character suffered from faulty logic to be kind about it. Sonny boy wanted to shoot people. And in time Lith Iron or Lith Poly batteries would have been introduced. Better than being lumbered for 10 years with outdated stuff with old battery technology. A man on this group has just bought a conventional flued cast iron boiler. This is outdated old technology now. If he has this 15-20 years, in 15 years it will be an museum piece. Could be the same as buying an expensive battery drill. It could have been but isn't. If you look at Makita's battery offerings, you will note that they offer battery packs of newer technologies and capacities as they have become available. I don't see any Lithium batteries on offer. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
#22
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:25:19 -0000, "Doctor Evil" wrote: "Grunff" wrote in message ... Doctor Evil wrote: But you can get 10 of those for one Makita, so they are more cost effective. And in time Lith Ion or Lith Poly batteries would have been introduced. Better than being lumbered for 10 years with outdated stuff with old battery technology. But that's kind of living for the future, isn't it? You always end up with a crappy tool, They are not crappy tool. The mid range offering a v good. The Makitas of this world have logevity that's all. Have you ever actually owned or used one? I have used them, but never owned one. I have owned crappy Bosch, whuich many say are the equiv. I learnt that these tools are way overpriced a long time ago after being bitten a few times. I find the best price/performance is Ryobi and Kress (Wickes) _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
#23
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:31:34 -0000, "Doctor Evil" wrote: "Lurch" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:37:25 -0000, "Doctor Evil" strung together this: But you can get 10 of those for one Makita, so they are more cost effective. And in time Lith Iron or Lith Poly batteries would have been introduced. Better than being lumbered for 10 years with outdated stuff with old battery technology. Utter tripe. I've had a Makita 8443 for about 3 or 4 years This is DIY, not pro, and..... If that is the case, there is no place for a claimed "pro" such as yourself, is there? You definitely require my wisdom. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
#24
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Andy Hall wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:18:18 GMT, Lobster wrote: I'm (still) in the market for a new cordless combi drill, and am coming close to settling for an Erbauer, based on a combination of price vs quality (as judged from uk.d-i-y reviews!) I'm puzzled that the 14.4V model is priced 20 quid cheaper than the 18V model, in the absence of any apparent special offers: 14.4V (100 GBP) http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...18841&id=64978 18V (80 GBP) http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...18841&id=71776 The 18V one seems to outperform the 14.V in every aspect but weight (2.6kg vs 2.0kg) - is that the issue? or am I missing the obvious? Oh dear - not only have I started yet another 'which drill?' thread; I've kicked off another IMM vs .andy duel.... :-) Don't buy either of these. You can get a Makita 14.4v 6228 with two batteries for the same or little more money and have far better results than with either of these unknown products. I'd definitely really like a Makita; certainly money no object I'd certainly go for one. Appreciate all the 'economy in the long run' arguments, but I can't justify the outlay. One reason is risk of loss - I often use my stuff away from home, carry it around in the car etc and wouldn't be covered by insurance against theft. I agree the 6228 is within my budget; however my drill will need to deal with some masonry work, so I want hammer action which is why I'd discounted it - I'd be looking at the Makita 8433, at 235 GBP or thereabouts? I've never used either a Makita or Erbauer personally: Andy, do you really reckon the Makita 6228 will give "better results" than a hammer action 18V Erbauer? (ie nothing to do with reliability or spares availability)? David |
#25
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"Lobster" wrote in message ... I'd definitely really like a Makita; certainly money no object I'd certainly go for one. Appreciate all the 'economy in the long run' arguments, but I can't justify the outlay. One reason is risk of loss - I often use my stuff away from home, carry it around in the car etc and wouldn't be covered by insurance against theft. I agree the 6228 is within my budget; however my drill will need to deal with some masonry work, so I want hammer action which is why I'd discounted it - I'd be looking at the Makita 8433, at 235 GBP or thereabouts? I've never used either a Makita or Erbauer personally: Andy, do you really reckon the Makita 6228 will give "better results" than a hammer action 18V Erbauer? (ie nothing to do with reliability or spares availability)? Haven't tried them personally yet but seen Cobalt multipurpose drills at shows and on telly selly that claim to do masonry without hammer. Since hammer is so puny on cordless perhaps that is a better way. If so lower spec drills non-hammer drills may be worth considering. Interested in any feedback about the Cobalt drills. Jim A |
#26
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#27
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On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:36:22 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote: I have used them, but never owned one. I have owned crappy Bosch, whuich many say are the equiv. I learnt that these tools are way overpriced a long time ago after being bitten a few times. I find the best price/performance is Ryobi and Kress (Wickes) I can understand that...... -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#28
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On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:57:51 GMT, "Mark" wrote:
Andy Hall am typed: Don't buy either of these. You can get a Makita 14.4v 6228 with two batteries for the same or little more money A combi drill I think not. c £243 although I agree that makita are fine tools, if you can justify the cost. There is very little point in buying a cheap cordless combi drill. The mechanics and control of the motor are simply not up to any meaningful hammer action for any length of time. This comes down *again* to the type/frequency of use and your available budget. There is also an impact on accuracy, ease of use and productivity. If you don't cost your time then this may not matter. If you do, then it matters a lot. Professional, or DIYer with more money then ability. Or somebody able and wishing to do a better job more quickly than is possible with junk tools. Again, if one costs in the *complete* situation and accounts for the cost of time, it makes good economic sense to buy quality products that are accurate, easy to use and do not fatigue the uset. Real cheep battery operated tools such as the Argos and B&Q house brands are a complete and utter waste of money, but *some* of the in-between brands are fine IMHO for diy use. That depends again on how/if you cost your time and the quality and speed of the intended work. I don't automatically equate "DIY" with cheap, poor quality, built down to a price point, and promoted by the marketing pundits as "DIY grade" to an audience that will accept "good enough". I don't think that "good enough" often is good enough. A poorly made product will still be poor whether used for ten minutes or all day. A far better solution is to buy a good quality cordless drill as I have suggested (this will do anything up to and including light to medium masonry work) LOL Probably if you are using one of the catalogue unknown products that will sink without trace next week, you would be. There is an enormous difference between these and a proper product with decent mechanics, controller and batteries. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#29
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On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:50:49 GMT, Lobster
wrote: I'd definitely really like a Makita; certainly money no object I'd certainly go for one. Appreciate all the 'economy in the long run' arguments, but I can't justify the outlay. One reason is risk of loss - I often use my stuff away from home, carry it around in the car etc and wouldn't be covered by insurance against theft. I agree the 6228 is within my budget; however my drill will need to deal with some masonry work, so I want hammer action which is why I'd discounted it - I'd be looking at the Makita 8433, at 235 GBP or thereabouts? I've never used either a Makita or Erbauer personally: Andy, do you really reckon the Makita 6228 will give "better results" than a hammer action 18V Erbauer? (ie nothing to do with reliability or spares availability)? The issue is that I don't make buying decisions based on a single issue of whether the Erbauer is going to drill a hole in masonry at a certain speed on day 1 in comparison with a Makita on the same day. I have a Makita 14.4v and a larger 18v, but neither are hammer action. The 14.4 will comfortably do up to mid range masonry holes - e.g. 8mm hole for a wall fixing, with no hammer action. The 18v will do somewhat more. I don't have or use a hammer action on either of them because for masonry work above that level I occasionally use a corded drill or more typically an SDS. Either will do a far better job than a cordless hammer drill, even with decent batteries and mechanics like Makita produce. Therefore, I would choose a good quality, well balanced and well controlled 14.4v drill for small to medium hole drilling, or even large in some materials, and screwdriving. Then to use something with more brute force and power than can be achieved out of a cordless tool by buying a reasonable corded SDS drill. Overall, I think that this is a much better spread of matching quality and control where needed ususally more frequently. I also tend to look much bigger picture, by not limiting myself to deciding based on what it did on day 1 in the shop and the price. To me, cost of time is by far the highest cost, therefore I want to have good quality tools that do a well controlled and precision job and can be fixed if needed and relied upon for years. For me, this completely rules out the catalogue and DIY store products that are sold on the numbers game with seemingly attractive warranties but which in reality are thrown out and replaced. I think that this is a valueless concept because it simply encourages poorer and poorer items to flood the market. I would much rather pay decent money for a good quality tool that I can use well all day or probably get the job done more quickly. I don't want to waste half a day waiting in a queue at the DIY shop to get an exchange on an unknown product. To me, spares availability, ease of use and build quality are much larger issues than capital cost. On the other hand, if purchase price is the biggest issue and cost of personal time less important, then the equation may be different. This is certainly a situation where one size doesn't fit all. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#30
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"Mark" wrote in message ... Andy Hall am typed: On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:18:18 GMT, Lobster wrote: I'm (still) in the market for a new cordless combi drill, and am SNIP David Don't buy either of these. You can get a Makita 14.4v 6228 with two batteries for the same or little more money A combi drill I think not. c £243 although I agree that makita are fine tools, if you can justify the cost. The Ryobi angle drill is going for £99, but for £114, they throw in a 14.4v drill/driver and case. That one good deal for two decent tools. If you need/want these tools then this is one good deal. An extra £80 gets you a Ryobi SDS from Screwfix and that is all you will ever need. Well pay circa £15 for a cheapy 700w mains drill from Argis and sheds to compleet the kit. So, for just over £200 you have the lot and apart from the cheapy mains drill decent quality tools. http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Powe...lls/d40/sd2599 _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
#31
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Andy, with respect, you are missing the plot completely.
First of all, cheaper power tools are fine for many applications. Horses for courses. I've always wanted a biscuit joiner, but for many years they have been completely outside of my price range as a serious DIYer. Now they arent, I can justify spending =A340 on one. Wouldn't last the week out in a joinery shop, but it will give me years of service. Secondly, there is a huge difference between 'cheaply made' and 'made cheaply'. For years the big boys in power tools have made huge margins and with huge margins come huge expenses. Sales meetings in Spain, top of the range company cars, hospitality etc. Now the big boys operate in the real world and watch costs like a hawk. Manufacturing techniques have also changed, JIT, L.E.A.N. etc. Structural plastics have arrived. I work for a multi national equipment manufacturer. In the last 5 years we have turned to L.E.A.N. manufacturing, outsourcing non critical components to eastern Europe, use of advanced moulding techniques etc. Our costs & prices have dropped by 30% - quality has improved overall. Dave |
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"Magician" wrote in message oups.com... Andy, with respect, you are missing the plot completely. First of all, cheaper power tools are fine for many applications. Horses for courses. I've always wanted a biscuit joiner, but for many years they have been completely outside of my price range as a serious DIYer. Now they arent, I can justify spending £40 on one. Wouldn't last the week out in a joinery shop, but it will give me years of service. Secondly, there is a huge difference between 'cheaply made' and 'made cheaply'. For years the big boys in power tools have made huge margins and with huge margins come huge expenses. Sales meetings in Spain, top of the range company cars, hospitality etc. Now the big boys operate in the real world and watch costs like a hawk. Manufacturing techniques have also changed, JIT, L.E.A.N. etc. Structural plastics have arrived. I work for a multi national equipment manufacturer. In the last 5 years we have turned to L.E.A.N. manufacturing, outsourcing non critical components to eastern Europe, use of advanced moulding techniques etc. Our costs & prices have dropped by 30% - quality has improved overall. Dave I see the likes of Makita do have the odd tool that is competitive. Their margin must have been hit hard. I know many pros who buy mid price range DIY stuff. They know it will not last 10 years, but don't expect it to either. They do the job. Thyey just want to drive screws or drill holes, that's all, not make a statement. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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In article , Doctor Evil
writes I see the likes of Makita do have the odd tool that is competitive. Their margin must have been hit hard. I know many pros who buy mid price range DIY stuff. They know it will not last 10 years, but don't expect it to either. They do the job. Thyey just want to drive screws or drill holes, that's all, not make a statement. John, I don't think this is true, can you direct me to a "pro" or a site where this is happening? I promise not to mention your name but I'm interested in establishing the facts. I keep but my eye out for this sort of thing and admittedly spend all my working life on large sites where it certainly isn't true but I have a small house development going on next door where I notice they are also only using DeWalt and Makita, are you only talking about plumbers? -- David |
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Lobster typed:
I've never used either a Makita or Erbauer personally: Andy, do you really reckon the Makita 6228 will give "better results" than a hammer action 18V Erbauer? (ie nothing to do with reliability or spares availability)? Don't know if you are still undecided but this may help http://www.carmechanicsmag.co.uk/cgi...312&i=Erbauer_ ERB18CD http://tinyurl.com/6m9r3 for a somewhat more objective view, at least they have tried them all. |
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"Magician"
Andy, with respect, you are missing the plot completely. Poor boy has never been the same since the week at the Everest double glazing sales conference. ;-( |
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"." wrote in message ... In article , Doctor Evil writes I see the likes of Makita do have the odd tool that is competitive. Their margin must have been hit hard. I know many pros who buy mid price range DIY stuff. They know it will not last 10 years, but don't expect it to either. They do the job. Thyey just want to drive screws or drill holes, that's all, not make a statement. John, I don't think this is true, can you direct me to a "pro" or a site where this is happening? Bertie, you must look harder. I promise not to mention your name but I'm interested in establishing the facts. I keep but my eye out for this sort of thing and admittedly spend all my working life on large sites I know a lot of stuff needs removing. where it certainly isn't true but I have a small house development going on next door where I notice they are also only using DeWalt and Makita, are you only talking about plumbers? The wood workers use Makita and DeWalt virtually to man, but the others tend to use what is available. I've seen a bit of Wickes (Kress about) and I recall a comms crew who all had Parkside (cheap stuff from Lidle) |
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"." wrote in message ... In article , Doctor Evil writes I see the likes of Makita do have the odd tool that is competitive. Their margin must have been hit hard. I know many pros who buy mid price range DIY stuff. They know it will not last 10 years, but don't expect it to either. They do the job. Thyey just want to drive screws or drill holes, that's all, not make a statement. John, I don't think this is true, can you direct me to a "pro" or a site where this is happening? I promise not to mention your name but I'm interested in establishing the facts. I keep but my eye out for this sort of thing and admittedly spend all my working life on large sites where it certainly isn't true but I have a small house development going on next door where I notice they are also only using DeWalt and Makita, are you only talking about plumbers? -- David Seeing as you all think I am Dr Evil I replied as him in the previous post. Your name is Bertie isn't it? |
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On 23 Feb 2005 02:26:22 -0800, "Magician"
wrote: Andy, with respect, you are missing the plot completely. I am not missing the plot at all. I may have a different plot and set of criteria to others but both are equally valid. First of all, cheaper power tools are fine for many applications. Horses for courses. Precisely. It depends on the application and the quality of the outcome that you are looking for. It also depends on how you cost your time and what you are willing to accept in terms of ease of use, productivity and outcome. Personally I value time expensively and don't want to waste it titting around with cheap tools. I also want to get work done accurately, and with good control and use of the tool. Sorry but these do not come with unbranded catalogue and DIY store products. If your type of work is occasionally to put up a few shelves and be reasonably happy with any reasonable outcome, you have copious spare time and capital cost is the most important issue, certainly go ahead and buy the cheapest. It will do *a* job. Personally, I don't find that standard of work acceptable. I can easily do better, but it's a quality and time issue for me with cost effectiveness (not cost) as a very important factor. I've always wanted a biscuit joiner, but for many years they have been completely outside of my price range as a serious DIYer. Now they arent, I can justify spending £40 on one. Wouldn't last the week out in a joinery shop, but it will give me years of service. That's probably true. I do a fair amount of biscuit joinery. I began by buying a DeWalt 682. It isn't good enough because there is a design fault whereby the fence is permanently 2-3 degrees out of square. It went back. I have a Lamello. Why? Because it does a precise job every time. I can get the spares whenever I need them and it will most likely last beyond my lifetime. Secondly, there is a huge difference between 'cheaply made' and 'made cheaply'. If there is no spares backup, no service and the name changes every three months you are dealing with a warehousing and distribution operation, not a proper manufacturer. There is nothing wrong with making something to a price point as long as this doesn't compromise the precision, usability, quality and outcome. Outcome includes service, spares and backup in terms of my purchasing criteria. If the product doesn't have that, then to me it's largely worthless. For years the big boys in power tools have made huge margins and with huge margins come huge expenses. Yes of course. Running a brand with proper service isn't cheap. I don't think that replacing it with a throw away mentality is the right answer. That is motivated by a throw away society where retailers want to sell you a replacement. Sales meetings in Spain, top of the range company cars, hospitality etc. Now the big boys operate in the real world and watch costs like a hawk. As they should, but there is nothing wrong with proper brand maintenance and service. If cost cutting is to meet the wants of the large retailers then the fault lies with the retailers and frankly with a subset of customers who think they should be able to get something for nothing. Sorry but I don't play the volume warehouse throw away game. Manufacturing techniques have also changed, JIT, L.E.A.N. etc. Structural plastics have arrived. I work for a multi national equipment manufacturer. In the last 5 years we have turned to L.E.A.N. manufacturing, outsourcing non critical components to eastern Europe, use of advanced moulding techniques etc. Our costs & prices have dropped by 30% - quality has improved overall. That's a good achievement. As long as you haven't prostituted your organisation to the large retailers and have maintained a quality position and service to your customers, I think that you can have a bright future. On the other hand, if you are dancing to the tune of B&Q, Screwfix, Home Depot and all the rest, what will you use to differentiate yourselves from the volume factories in China? it's ultimately an issue of understanding your market and your customer. Obviously if you feel that that is through the volume retailers, fine. There is another way..... Dave -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:21:52 -0000, "top gear"
strung together this: Seeing as you all think I am Dr Evil I replied as him in the previous post. Er, don't think so. Try looking into the settings a bit more, or use a proper newsreader. -- SJW Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject |
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"top gear" wrote in message ... "." wrote in message ... In article , Doctor Evil writes I see the likes of Makita do have the odd tool that is competitive. Their margin must have been hit hard. I know many pros who buy mid price range DIY stuff. They know it will not last 10 years, but don't expect it to either. They do the job. Thyey just want to drive screws or drill holes, that's all, not make a statement. John, I don't think this is true, can you direct me to a "pro" or a site where this is happening? I promise not to mention your name but I'm interested in establishing the facts. I keep but my eye out for this sort of thing and admittedly spend all my working life on large sites where it certainly isn't true but I have a small house development going on next door where I notice they are also only using DeWalt and Makita, are you only talking about plumbers? -- David Seeing as you all think I am Dr Evil I replied as him in the previous post. Your name is Bertie isn't it? I you have figured this lot out. There are about 6 or so here who are a sandwich short of picnic, they are easy to spot. Tools from Lidle, now there is s novelty. I can see all the overall clad men at the checks with their Lidle drills. _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 120,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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