In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:


Read my other post regarding the DeWalt biscuit jointer. This was
certainly not a cheap item, and when it was apparent that there was a
defect, a refund was made after 18 months. The retailer (Axminster
Tools) received my business for a replacement Lamello. That is what I
mean by good service.

I remember your previous posts about this and I'm sure you and Axminster
are right that the product has a basic design flaw that effectively
renders it useless in regard to its basic function of cutting joints at
a 90 degree angle.

DeWalt and Axminster were selling this product for at least 18 months
before you pointed the fault out to them (and probably some considerable
time afterwards).

This suggests that the majority of purchasers didn't object to the
uselessness of the product, and were happy to pay top dollar for the
kudos of the brand name rather than any functionality.

Isn't this what IMM has been arguing all along?


Also, many people would consider it extravagant to pay for one of the
more expensive tools on the market and have so little use for it that it
takes a year and a half to discover it is inacapable of performing its
basic function effectively.



Several years ago, my daughter wanted a particular double CD, which
she had identified was only available from Virgin. I was cajoled
into going to buy it for her, on a Saturday morning from their store
in Reading, some 10 miles away. I hate going into Reading town
centre on Saturdays (come to thing of it, I'm not excited at the best
of times) but went and parked up and bought the required CD.
I got it home and discovered that there were two of one CD and not the
second. Of course daughter *had* to have it that day, so back I
went. Everything on the shelf was the same, but then Virgin found
another box with the second CD and put it all together. There was a
short discussion about compensation for wasted trip, time and parking.
They gave me £30 of vouchers.

Surely you should have explained to your daughter or, better still, her
line manager that, by way of recompense for the inconvenience her
unreasonable behaviour had caused you, you would be spending her
inheritance on a Kango pneumatic hammer with which to insert a drawing
pin once every year (although eighteen months and one-and-a-half drawing
pins later, you'd discover it had a basic design flaw which rendered it
unfit for purpose and have to exchange it for an even more expensive
Hilti).

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:

I'm curious to know how you calculate a value for your time.

In one direction I look at my professional and opportunity costs for
my normal daily work.
So then I trade off can I do a better job than the tradesperson?
Almost always yes. Can I do it at my convenience? Yes. Will I
enjoy doing it? Maybe yes, maybe no.


But the question was how you calculate the cost of your valuable time in
relation to your interminable argument with IMM.

Have you considered the cost-benefit ratio of getting a professional in
to continue your war of attrition with IMM? Who knows, the job might
get finished then.



While taking tools back to B&Q may do nothing for you, publicly
proclaiming your debatable superiority to IMM clearly fulfills a need
that transcends monetary value.


What a curious idea you have.

Curious in what sense? Are you questioning its veracity?


Sorry but I don't accept ****ing around and time wasting

....unless it takes the form of repeatedly haranguing IMM.

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:


But, Andy, Kress have previously rebadged their products for
Porter-Cable and Mafell

I don't feel, and I don't think that I have ever said that *all* tools
from a particular manufacturer or brand are automatically good or for
another that they are automatically bad.



With respect, it appears that's what you're doing he



I basically almost ignore the Power Devil, JCB ... Poor comfort, longevity and so on for
serious use. I see B&Q, PPPoo, Ryobi, Kress and these others as
slightly, but perhaps only slightly better than these others. The
distribution model and backup is the same.



As I've said before, I think your dislike of Kress is more to do with
your relationship with IMM than any objective assessment of their
tools. This is a long-established German company, manufacturing in
Europe, who've supplied Porter Cable and Mafell amongst others, still
controlled by the founding family who will respond personally to
e-mails, FWIW. I'd've thought that was the sort of service that would
impress you. And it's not as if they're cheap.

When I wanted a 125mm angle grinder, I looked at Makita and DeWalt and
decided I'd sooner pay the same for a Kress model. One or both of the
others needed a tool to reposition the shield but the Kress was
tool-free; the Kress came with variable speed, detachable cable and a
curved side handle (like 230mm grinders). That might seem like
unnecessary frippery but, after you've used it for a while you realise
how much more ergonomic and comfortable it is than a traditional stick
handle. I'm not convinced that the safety ring switch is any
improvement over a traditional push switch but it's no worse. It's had
some hammer over a period of years and, touch wood, it's till going
strong.

I haven't got exclusively Kress tools but the ones I have got, I've been
happy with.



- Pneumatic nailers. I have bought only two brands - Porter Cable
and Senco. However, I wouldn't dream of buying a Porter Cable
sander. They are junk.

....although, in fairness, this opinion is apparently not shared by that
cheap-skate cowboy wood-butcher, Norm Abram.

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:


Several years ago, my daughter wanted a particular double CD, which
she had identified was only available from Virgin.


I trust this double CD contained only the works of an honest
singer-songwriter able to provide back-up and personal service in the
form of heartfelt sincerity and a refusal to pander to the lowest common
denominator, rather than the work of some volume retailer / covers band
playing the numbers game with OEM / hit factory produced disposable pop.

Mind you, using the IMM model, I guess one could argue that three Girls
Aloud is better value than one Bob Dylan.

If one Girl Aloud conks, just chuck her and pick up another.

Keep drilling, no downtime..... so to speak.

mike wrote:

Mind you, using the IMM model, I guess one could argue that three Girls
Aloud is better value than one Bob Dylan.

If one Girl Aloud conks, just chuck her and pick up another.

Keep drilling, no downtime..... so to speak.

Problem is though, you can see the attraction of buying a set of S-Club
7 based on the quantity you get for your money. but as with many bargain
packs like this, you end up finding that you only ever end up using the
Rachel Stevens and hence she wares out before all the others... ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

mike wrote:


Sorry but I don't accept ****ing around and time wasting


...unless it takes the form of repeatedly haranguing IMM.

I am sure that is one of the main reasons IMM bothers posting, so he can
induce someone to argue with him - he seems to enjoy it.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
mike wrote:
Black and Decker, who were never taken serioulsy in the pro tool market,

Years ago they sold their Tradesman range which *was* competitive.

--
*If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 11:53:03 GMT, mike wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:


But, Andy, Kress have previously rebadged their products for
Porter-Cable and Mafell

I don't feel, and I don't think that I have ever said that *all* tools
from a particular manufacturer or brand are automatically good or for
another that they are automatically bad.



With respect, it appears that's what you're doing he

With respect, that is precisely what I am not doing.





I basically almost ignore the Power Devil, JCB ... Poor comfort, longevity and so on for
serious use. I see B&Q, PPPoo, Ryobi, Kress and these others as
slightly, but perhaps only slightly better than these others. The
distribution model and backup is the same.



As I've said before, I think your dislike of Kress is more to do with
your relationship with IMM than any objective assessment of their
tools. This is a long-established German company, manufacturing in
Europe, who've supplied Porter Cable and Mafell amongst others, still
controlled by the founding family who will respond personally to
e-mails, FWIW. I'd've thought that was the sort of service that would
impress you. And it's not as if they're cheap.

Nope. Opinions are from looking at the products. I couldn't find
anything that impressed me.

Do you really think in your wildest dreams that I would base opinion
of a product that I might or might not buy on the input of IMM?
Please.





When I wanted a 125mm angle grinder, I looked at Makita and DeWalt and
decided I'd sooner pay the same for a Kress model. One or both of the
others needed a tool to reposition the shield but the Kress was
tool-free; the Kress came with variable speed, detachable cable and a
curved side handle (like 230mm grinders). That might seem like
unnecessary frippery but, after you've used it for a while you realise
how much more ergonomic and comfortable it is than a traditional stick
handle. I'm not convinced that the safety ring switch is any
improvement over a traditional push switch but it's no worse. It's had
some hammer over a period of years and, touch wood, it's till going
strong.

I haven't got exclusively Kress tools but the ones I have got, I've been
happy with.

That's fine and doesn't cause me a problem. As I said, I found
nothing that they made that impressed me. However, it's entirely
possible that they make a nice angle grinder. I haven't been in the
market for one of those for some time.






- Pneumatic nailers. I have bought only two brands - Porter Cable
and Senco. However, I wouldn't dream of buying a Porter Cable
sander. They are junk.

...although, in fairness, this opinion is apparently not shared by that
cheap-skate cowboy wood-butcher, Norm Abram.

Nobody of sentience would base a buying decision on the whims and
recent handouts of Norm, or anybody else in a TV program for that
matter






--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 11:36:01 GMT, mike wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:


Read my other post regarding the DeWalt biscuit jointer. This was
certainly not a cheap item, and when it was apparent that there was a
defect, a refund was made after 18 months. The retailer (Axminster
Tools) received my business for a replacement Lamello. That is what I
mean by good service.

I remember your previous posts about this and I'm sure you and Axminster
are right that the product has a basic design flaw that effectively
renders it useless in regard to its basic function of cutting joints at
a 90 degree angle.

DeWalt and Axminster were selling this product for at least 18 months
before you pointed the fault out to them (and probably some considerable
time afterwards).

To their credit, Axminster replaced the tool after the nominal 12
month warranty. However, I pay little regard to 12 month warranties
anyway - they are a convenience for the retailer only. If something
is not right with a product after that then I expect a replacement.

There was never any issue with Axminster in getting a replacement or a
refund.



This suggests that the majority of purchasers didn't object to the
uselessness of the product, and were happy to pay top dollar for the
kudos of the brand name rather than any functionality.

Some people would not have noticed the problem and may even not be
unhappy with 2 degrees of error. In a smaller geometry i wouldn't be
noticable anyway.

The DeWalt jointer isn'r a top dollar product. It is mid range.





Also, many people would consider it extravagant to pay for one of the
more expensive tools on the market and have so little use for it that it
takes a year and a half to discover it is inacapable of performing its
basic function effectively.


It's a mid range tool and it is not obvious until one measures
carefully that there is an issue.







Several years ago, my daughter wanted a particular double CD, which
she had identified was only available from Virgin. I was cajoled
into going to buy it for her, on a Saturday morning from their store
in Reading, some 10 miles away. I hate going into Reading town
centre on Saturdays (come to thing of it, I'm not excited at the best
of times) but went and parked up and bought the required CD.
I got it home and discovered that there were two of one CD and not the
second. Of course daughter *had* to have it that day, so back I
went. Everything on the shelf was the same, but then Virgin found
another box with the second CD and put it all together. There was a
short discussion about compensation for wasted trip, time and parking.
They gave me £30 of vouchers.

Surely you should have explained to your daughter or, better still, her
line manager that, by way of recompense for the inconvenience her
unreasonable behaviour had caused you, you would be spending her
inheritance on a Kango pneumatic hammer with which to insert a drawing
pin once every year (although eighteen months and one-and-a-half drawing
pins later, you'd discover it had a basic design flaw which rendered it
unfit for purpose and have to exchange it for an even more expensive
Hilti).

I preferred the outcome that I got. Everybody was happy. Daughter
got her CDs. I wasn't out of pocket. Virgin retained a customer and
made sure that their supplier was more careful.






--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:39:19 GMT, mike wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:


Several years ago, my daughter wanted a particular double CD, which
she had identified was only available from Virgin.


I trust this double CD contained only the works of an honest
singer-songwriter able to provide back-up and personal service in the
form of heartfelt sincerity and a refusal to pander to the lowest common
denominator, rather than the work of some volume retailer / covers band
playing the numbers game with OEM / hit factory produced disposable pop.

Absolutely. Only the best.


Mind you, using the IMM model, I guess one could argue that three Girls
Aloud is better value than one Bob Dylan.

If one Girl Aloud conks, just chuck her and pick up another.

I have no idea or interest in who Girl Aloud might be.



Keep drilling, no downtime..... so to speak.

If it works for you....



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 11:37:02 GMT, mike wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:

I'm curious to know how you calculate a value for your time.

In one direction I look at my professional and opportunity costs for
my normal daily work.
So then I trade off can I do a better job than the tradesperson?
Almost always yes. Can I do it at my convenience? Yes. Will I
enjoy doing it? Maybe yes, maybe no.


But the question was how you calculate the cost of your valuable time in
relation to your interminable argument with IMM.

There's nothing to argue about and the time is negligible.



Have you considered the cost-benefit ratio of getting a professional in
to continue your war of attrition with IMM? Who knows, the job might
get finished then.

I suppose that one could use the Monthy Python approach.




While taking tools back to B&Q may do nothing for you, publicly
proclaiming your debatable superiority to IMM clearly fulfills a need
that transcends monetary value.


What a curious idea you have.

Curious in what sense? Are you questioning its veracity?


Nothing to question.


Sorry but I don't accept ****ing around and time wasting

...unless it takes the form of repeatedly haranguing IMM.


There's nothing there either.

--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 09:19:08 GMT, mike wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:


As long as you haven't prostituted your
organisation to the large retailers and have maintained a quality
position and service to your customers, I think that you can have a
bright future. On the other hand, if you are dancing to the tune of
B&Q, Screwfix, Home Depot and all the rest, what will you use to
differentiate yourselves from the volume factories in China?

So, Andy, which manufacturers do you think haven't prostituted
themselves?

All of them have to one degree or another.

It's a case of separating the marketing crap from the value.

For example, if I were in tha market for a digger, I might look at
JCB, but their toy planers are not interesting.

Makita make excellent cordless drills but have sets of drill bits in
boxes which are total tat.


As I've pointed out repeatedly, one has to look carefully.



Bosch who bought Skil so they had a brand they could sell cheaply, but
who now sell their own brand drills through Argos for the same price as
Power Devil?

Black and Decker, who were never taken serioulsy in the pro tool market,
bought De Walt, and then ruined their reputation by selling B&D crud in
yellow cases?

Makita who are currently flogging Maktec drills for £25?


All of the above, with the possible exception of Skil, who do have a
good range of vanilla but respectable tools like circular saws.

One has to look at the individual tool and tool type, as I've said.


However, my experience is that when one looks at product labels (they
aren't proper brands) like Ryobi and PPPoo, the majority of products
are junk and it is exceptional to find something decent.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Mark" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) typed:

In article ,
Mark wrote:
Masonry drills tips are ground to a chisel edge and are designed to
be used in a hammer action, this angle means they don't cut. Ever
tried drilling into wood with one ? So the only why you make a hole
in masonry with one is by abrasive friction, which will a) blunt
your drill or b) as the carbide tip is brazed onto a softer shank,
melt the tip off.

Who said you have to use 'traditional' masonry drills?


Were did you or Andy specify with a.n.other type.
Very blanket statement saying you can drill into masonry without hammer
unless you also post the info as to which type of (overpriced and not that
good ) drill bit you then need to use, so not to destroy your traditional
drill bits.

Mark, only on the Internet you get this.


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"mike" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:


As long as you haven't prostituted your
organisation to the large retailers and have maintained a quality
position and service to your customers, I think that you can have a
bright future. On the other hand, if you are dancing to the tune of
B&Q, Screwfix, Home Depot and all the rest, what will you use to
differentiate yourselves from the volume factories in China?

So, Andy, which manufacturers do you think haven't prostituted
themselves?

Bosch who bought Skil so they had a brand they could sell cheaply, but
who now sell their own brand drills through Argos for the same price as
Power Devil?

Black and Decker, who were never taken serioulsy in the pro tool market,
bought De Walt, and then ruined their reputation by selling B&D crud in
yellow cases?

Makita who are currently flogging Maktec drills for £25?

£25? Where?


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"mike" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:


Several years ago, my daughter wanted a particular double CD, which
she had identified was only available from Virgin.


I trust this double CD contained only the works of an honest
singer-songwriter able to provide back-up and personal service in the
form of heartfelt sincerity and a refusal to pander to the lowest common
denominator, rather than the work of some volume retailer / covers band
playing the numbers game with OEM / hit factory produced disposable pop.

Mind you, using the IMM model, I guess one could argue that three Girls
Aloud is better value than one Bob Dylan.

If one Girl Aloud conks, just chuck her and pick up another.

Keep drilling, no downtime..... so to speak.

Great idea. If you buy two cheap party CDs then when they party is in full
swing and some drunken person sit on your CD and ruins it the party goes
flat. So, have two cheap CDs in case, then no one misses out on the Hokey
Cokey or the Laughing Policeman.



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In article ,
"Doctor Evil" wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
...

Makita who are currently flogging Maktec drills for £25?

£25? Where?

http://www.axminster.co.uk/

It's on the homepage at the moment.

"mike" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Doctor Evil" wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
...

Makita who are currently flogging Maktec drills for £25?

£25? Where?

http://www.axminster.co.uk/

It's on the homepage at the moment.

over 400w.

Are Maktec the DIY range of Makita? If so the battery drills are not
exactly DIY prices.
..



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In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:


I don't feel, and I don't think that I have ever said that *all* tools
from a particular manufacturer or brand are automatically... bad.

With respect, it appears that's what you're doing he

I basically almost ignore the Power Devil, JCB ...

With respect, that is precisely what I am not doing.


I think most people with a basic grasp of English would think you're
being disingenuous there, Andy. Maybe you just have trouble admitting
when you're wrong.


Nope. Opinions are from looking at the products. I couldn't find
anything that impressed me.

Oh, right. So IMM looks at a product, expresses an opinion about it and
you lambast him for being uninformed and unequipped to render a
worthwhile conclusion. But when you do the same, we're supposed to
treat you like Moses returning with a stone tablet. I'm sure someone of
your obvious intellect knows the meaning of the word "hypocrite".

Do you really think in your wildest dreams that I would base opinion
of a product that I might or might not buy on the input of IMM?
Please.


Not in my wildest dreams, Andy. It's based on your behaviour on this
list. IMM says something: like Pavlov's dog, you disagree with it. You
couldn't be seen to agree with him. It would reduce your social
standing (in your own mind if no-one else's). I appreciate it's not your
only purchasing criterion. We've established over a long period that
brand snobbery and the feeling of superiority it gives is the major one.

Some people would not have noticed the problem and may even not be
unhappy with 2 degrees of error.

Exactly. So you agree with IMM that many purchasers were happy to pay
for the kudos of the brand name rather than the functionality.

The DeWalt jointer isn'r a top dollar product. It is mid range.

Mid-range to people who'd considering paying up to ?470 for a Lamello.
Then let's say that Dewalt is "expensive".

It's a mid range tool and it is not obvious until one measures
carefully that there is an issue.

Previously, according to you, it was a basic design flaw that rendered
it virtually useless. Are you now saying you were making a fuss over
nothing? You've already admitted that many people wouldn't notice it
and, if they did, wouldn't care.

There must be people on this group who've bought a Skil, Freud or Ferm
biscuit jointer and found it 90 degrees out of the box (or at least
settable to 90). You splash out on a "mid-range" tool and the best it
can manage is 88. I guess that would make some people rethink their
dogmatic attitude.

Virgin ... made sure that their supplier was more careful.

Are you sure about that?

Were you there for the face-to-face meeting where Richard Branson ripped
the guy from K-Tel a new arsehole?

I think you may have overestimated your achievement in order to make
yourself feel more important.

I'd respectively suggest that an equally likely scenario is that, once
you'd departed the shop, the manager turned to his underlings, said
"another tosser with a bee up his ass", and they all had a hearty laugh
at your expense.

I can see why you'd prefer the former interpretation though.

But the question was how you calculate the cost of your valuable time
in relation to your interminable argument with IMM.

There's nothing to argue about

And yet you keep doing it.

While taking tools back to B&Q may do nothing for you, publicly
proclaiming your debatable superiority to IMM clearly fulfills a
need
that transcends monetary value.

Nothing to question.

So you agree with the statement that your constant smug haranguing of
IMM is all about making yourself feel better?

Nobody of sentience would base a buying decision on the whims and
recent handouts of Norm, or anybody else in a TV program for that
matter

No, but one might factor Norm's obvious craftsmanship and the respect of
his peers into one's buying decision.

On the other hand, no-one of sentience would base their decision on the
silly, self-aggrandizing proclamations of an arrogant, hectoring windbag
who dresses up his prejudices in a veneer of pomposity and gets off on
bullying people.

There are are two or three regulars, clearly impressed by your ability
to string a sentence together (even if its doesn't stand up to logical
analysis), who'll step in to do some cheer-leading for you when you go
off on one of your regular IMM-baiting stunts, but I notice they've been
more or less absent from this exchange. One hopes they've discovered
some measure of self-respect and realised that hanging out with the
playground bully is a not a position they want to be in.

mike wrote:

Oh, right. So IMM looks at a product, expresses an opinion about it and
you lambast him for being uninformed and unequipped to render a
worthwhile conclusion. But when you do the same, we're supposed to
treat you like Moses returning with a stone tablet. I'm sure someone of
your obvious intellect knows the meaning of the word "hypocrite".

If you compare the kind of statements Andy makes about a product to the
kind of statements IMM makes about a product, you will realise quite how
stupid that statement is.

When Andy describes a product which he has looked at, he will usually
give a very detailed description of specific features and drawbacks of
the product. Whenever the description has been of a product I have
personal exprience with, it has correlated well with my own assessment.

When IMM makes a statement about a product, there is rarely any detail
there - no evidence that he's ever seen one, let alone used one. Nothing
beyond what you can get from a catalog.

This pattern is pretty consistent, as a quick search through the
archives will reveal.


On the other hand, no-one of sentience would base their decision on the
silly, self-aggrandizing proclamations of an arrogant, hectoring windbag
who dresses up his prejudices in a veneer of pomposity and gets off on
bullying people.

There are are two or three regulars, clearly impressed by your ability
to string a sentence together (even if its doesn't stand up to logical
analysis), who'll step in to do some cheer-leading for you when you go
off on one of your regular IMM-baiting stunts, but I notice they've been
more or less absent from this exchange. One hopes they've discovered
some measure of self-respect and realised that hanging out with the
playground bully is a not a position they want to be in.

You're way off the mark, mike. That isn't the way newsgroups work. The
way someone gains the respect of regulars on a newsgroup (as Andy has)
is though consistent, valuable contributions to the group over a period
of time. And the way someone gains a reputation for being the group
clown is through consisent posting of moronic drivel.

--
Grunff

"mike" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Doctor Evil" wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
...

Makita who are currently flogging Maktec drills for £25?

£25? Where?

http://www.axminster.co.uk/

It's on the homepage at the moment.

Interesting. Makita say that Maktec is a pro tool, the same quality, just
a few features less. I looked at Screwfix and the Makita 12v drill/driver
with 2 batteries is £95. An extra battery is £45. So that is £140 with
three batteries. The Maktec, equiv., the same but red and a few different
moulding lines on the plastic case, is going for £80 inc p&p with 3
batteries.
http://www.ukindustry.co.uk/makita/maktec.htm

The difference is 32 torque settings to 19, well who is that fused on 32
settings anyway. So £60 difference. Quite a bit for basically the same
product.

They have been bitten hard by the Riyobi's, etc, so much so they have
created a new range. Just like BMC did with their badge engineering in the
60s/70s. An Austin 1100 was the same car as the Morris 110. They looked
the same and they never all came in the same colour. The hard of thinking
believed they were different cars underneath too, they were not. BMC were
playing on Little Middle England petty snobbery as people would wait 6
months for an Austin 1100 when they could walk away the next day with a
Morris 1100 for less money too.




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"Grunff" wrote in message
...
mike wrote:

Oh, right. So IMM looks at a product, expresses an opinion about it and
you lambast him for being uninformed and unequipped to render a
worthwhile conclusion. But when you do the same, we're supposed to
treat you like Moses returning with a stone tablet. I'm sure someone of
your obvious intellect knows the meaning of the word "hypocrite".

If you compare the kind of statements Andy makes about a product to the
kind of statements IMM makes about a product, you will realise quite how
stupid that statement is.

When Andy describes a product which he has looked at, he will usually
give a very detailed description of specific features and drawbacks of
the product. Whenever the description has been of a product I have
personal exprience with, it has correlated well with my own assessment.

When IMM makes a statement about a product, there is rarely any detail
there - no evidence that he's ever seen one, let alone used one. Nothing
beyond what you can get from a catalog.

This pattern is pretty consistent, as a quick search through the
archives will reveal.

Of course this is total tosh. The tosh continues.......

On the other hand, no-one of sentience would base their decision on the
silly, self-aggrandizing proclamations of an arrogant, hectoring windbag
who dresses up his prejudices in a veneer of pomposity and gets off on
bullying people.

There are are two or three regulars, clearly impressed by your ability
to string a sentence together (even if its doesn't stand up to logical
analysis), who'll step in to do some cheer-leading for you when you go
off on one of your regular IMM-baiting stunts, but I notice they've been
more or less absent from this exchange. One hopes they've discovered
some measure of self-respect and realised that hanging out with the
playground bully is a not a position they want to be in.

You're way off the mark, mike. That isn't the way newsgroups work. The
way someone gains the respect of regulars on a newsgroup (as Andy has)
is though consistent, valuable contributions to the group over a period
of time. And the way someone gains a reputation for being the group
clown is through consisent posting of moronic drivel.

.......I did Google of your posts and you totally correct.



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mike wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:

I don't feel, and I don't think that I have ever said that *all* tools
from a particular manufacturer or brand are automatically... bad.

With respect, it appears that's what you're doing he


I basically almost ignore the Power Devil, JCB ...

With respect, that is precisely what I am not doing.



I think most people with a basic grasp of English would think you're
being disingenuous there, Andy. Maybe you just have trouble admitting
when you're wrong.

In your one man crusade to win the affections of IMM, it seems to be
yourself lacking grasp in this situation. Andy has made it very clear
what factors he considers important for his tool purchases. Given those,
it seems entirely appropriate that he dismisses a large section of the
low end offings, if for no other reason than their distribution model
precludes the sort of after sales service and support that he requires.
Why is that so difficult to understand? It does not seem to be snobbery
to base your purchasing decisions on how close a fit to *your*
requirements a tool gets.

It should also be clear that Andy enjoys using fine quality tools. So do
I. There are some tools I have, that can put smile on your face every
time you pick them up and use them (and no, not from the vibration!). It
is difficult to qualify what exactly what that X factor is, but it seems
to be (to me at least) combination of good design, performance,
smoothness of operation, and quality of results achieved. Sometimes
everything about it is "right".

I guess this is no different from getting into a nice car and driving.
Yes it performs basically the same function as a fifteen year old
Escort, but the driving enjoyment is that much more.

Given that for many of us, DIY is a pastime from which we hope to draw
pleasure and to produce quality workmanship, and not just a means to an
end, or a way of saving money. It also seems reasonable that we seek out
tools that help enhance the satisfaction of the experience. In my own
personal experience, the "built to a price" mass market tools rarely if
ever give this satisfaction. It can be found in the mid range if you
choose with care, and more often can be found in the "pro" catagory.
Advice from people in this group I find helpful in making sensible
buying choices with lots of unrewarding and expensive "suck it and see"
purchases.

Nope. Opinions are from looking at the products. I couldn't find
anything that impressed me.


Oh, right. So IMM looks at a product, expresses an opinion about it and
you lambast him for being uninformed and unequipped to render a
worthwhile conclusion.

IMM gets lambasted for never having given any credible indication that
he has actually used any of the things he "recommends". Detail if
present, is never more than a rehash of a web site or sales pamphlet.
While this information _does_ have a place, and can be helpfull, it is
only as long as it is clear what the povenance of the information is.
Alas IMM in his various false identities have argued "black is white"
with such frequency it makes it difficult to accept even basic
information from him without close analysis and scruitny.

But when you do the same, we're supposed to
treat you like Moses returning with a stone tablet. I'm sure someone of
your obvious intellect knows the meaning of the word "hypocrite".

If Andy did the same, then that would be hypocritical. However I don't
feel that he does. He has a long standing history on this group of
providing detailed quality information. If he gives an opionion he is
also always ready to explain *why* he is of that opinion, withuot
resorting to IMM style "I am always right, trust me" statements.

Some people would not have noticed the problem and may even not be
unhappy with 2 degrees of error.


Exactly. So you agree with IMM that many purchasers were happy to pay
for the kudos of the brand name rather than the functionality.

No, I believe he says that for many users, a slight error may not be
critical. Much depends on the type of work you are doing.

The DeWalt jointer isn'r a top dollar product. It is mid range.


Mid-range to people who'd considering paying up to ?470 for a Lamello.
Then let's say that Dewalt is "expensive".

Biscuit jointers as a rule have not pricked the mass market awareness
bubble as yet and are still thought of as specialised tools. Very few
are at the sort of low prices common for other classes of tool. Hence
they are all to an extent "expensive".

It's a mid range tool and it is not obvious until one measures
carefully that there is an issue.


Previously, according to you, it was a basic design flaw that rendered
it virtually useless. Are you now saying you were making a fuss over
nothing? You've already admitted that many people wouldn't notice it
and, if they did, wouldn't care.

I find biscuit jointing is one fo those activities that I don't do a
large amount of, but do find it a very quick and useful technique on
some occations. Enough to warrent a dedicated tool rather than rely on
the router bit set. Hence this was an occation that I opted for a
"cheap" tool, (Ferm from Screwfix) on the grounds that it was a means to
an end, and various reports I had read suggested it was "ok". Given the
price point I was not expecting perfection. In actuality there was a
significant error in its alignment (biscuits would be 1mm nearer the
edge of the work piece on one side!) This was partly poor fence lock
design, but mostly lack of quality control in the manufacture. Hence I
sent it back for a replacement, and that one was better. However, I can
believe that for many users they would not have noticed the problem, its
significanse does depend on the type of work you are doing with it. It
also depends on you having sunk biscuits accurately in the past to
realise there is something not quite right.

There must be people on this group who've bought a Skil, Freud or Ferm
biscuit jointer and found it 90 degrees out of the box (or at least
settable to 90). You splash out on a "mid-range" tool and the best it
can manage is 88. I guess that would make some people rethink their
dogmatic attitude.

Well as highlighted, the Ferm could do 90 degrees on one axis, but sadly
failed on the latteral one!

(Personally I would not include Freud in the Ferm class, their general
standard of tool seems somewhat higher (and more expensive))

Virgin ... made sure that their supplier was more careful.


Are you sure about that?

Were you there for the face-to-face meeting where Richard Branson ripped
the guy from K-Tel a new arsehole?

You are engaging in IMM style argument "extension into absurdity". I
very much doubt Andy's shop visit made it to an agenda item at the next
Virgin board meeting, and I am sure that he is under no delusion that it
would. However, do you not suppose it likely that next time the sales
assistent flogs another CD of the same type he may not check? Or perhaps
they may even pull all incorrectly packaged ones from the shelf, given
that if they don't, it is only more hassle for them later?

I'd respectively suggest that an equally likely scenario is that, once
you'd departed the shop, the manager turned to his underlings, said
"another tosser with a bee up his ass", and they all had a hearty laugh
at your expense.

That may have been the case, does this however justify us all acting as
dumb sheep consumers? Taking whatever service the system gives out
without complaint? You may not have bothered rectifying the situation,
prefering to get shafted, but at least be greatful that some people do
take the time to highlight where there is a problem with a product or
service. It is only because of their actions that there will be an
improvement for all of us.

Nobody of sentience would base a buying decision on the whims and
recent handouts of Norm, or anybody else in a TV program for that
matter


No, but one might factor Norm's obvious craftsmanship and the respect of
his peers into one's buying decision.

A fact I am sure all the product placement and PR executives of the tool
comapanies are well aware of when making offers to the producers of such
shows...

Your point being what?

On the other hand, no-one of sentience would base their decision on the
silly, self-aggrandizing proclamations of an arrogant, hectoring windbag
who dresses up his prejudices in a veneer of pomposity and gets off on
bullying people.

True... can't think of who you had in mind though.

Personally I am quite happy to include Andy's opinions in my purchasing
decisions since they seem to closely reflect my own experiances and
those of many of the other contributors to this group for whose
experience and advice I have respect.

There are are two or three regulars, clearly impressed by your ability
to string a sentence together (even if its doesn't stand up to logical
analysis),
who'll step in to do some cheer-leading for you when you go
off on one of your regular IMM-baiting stunts, but I notice they've been

If IMM posts nonsense, Andy (and many others) will counter that with
lucid explanation of the limitations of said nonsense. Think of this a
public service to group newcomers who may not be aware of IMMs abusive
and trolling history.

If you see this as baiting, shame.

more or less absent from this exchange. One hopes they've discovered
some measure of self-respect and realised that hanging out with the
playground bully is a not a position they want to be in.

Now you are talking nonsense! (IMHO).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , Doctor Evil wrote:
An Austin 1100 was the same car as the Morris 110. They looked
the same and they never all came in the same colour. The hard of
thinking believed they were different cars underneath too, they
were not.

You would have to be extraordinarily hard of thinking to believe that
the Austin and Morris 1100 were different cars.

BMC were playing on Little Middle England petty snobbery as people
would wait 6 months for an Austin 1100 when they could walk away
the next day with a Morris 1100 for less money too.

It was nothing to do with snobbery, all to do with the fact that
there were powerful Austin and Morris dealership chains who operated
quite independently of one another.

People do now knock the BMC badge engineering of the 1960's but it
did have something going for it in that you knew (sort of) what was
what: A/M: bog standard; MG: faster; Wolseley: more comfortable;
Riley: faster and more comfortable; VP: decadent. Now you have to
decipher SE's and LX's

--
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Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article , Doctor Evil wrote:
An Austin 1100 was the same car as the Morris 110. They looked
the same and they never all came in the same colour. The hard of
thinking believed they were different cars underneath too, they
were not.

You would have to be extraordinarily
hard of thinking to believe that
the Austin and Morris 1100 were different cars.

A lot were.

BMC were playing on Little Middle
England petty snobbery as people
would wait 6 months for an Austin
1100 when they could walk away
the next day with a Morris 1100 for
less money too.

It was nothing to do with snobbery,

A lot of it was.

all to do with the fact that
there were powerful Austin and Morris
dealership chains who operated
quite independently of one another.

The ones I saw were all BMC dealers and sold the lot. Or Austin/Morris
dealers. On becoming BMC Austin and Morris dealers merged very quickly.

People do now knock the BMC badge
engineering of the 1960's but it
did have something going for it in
that you knew (sort of) what was
what: A/M: bog standard;

But the Austin and Morris 1100s offered nothing different from model to
model, unlike the faster MG versions, except a different dash. Same with the
Austin Seven (later Austin Mini) and Morris Mini and Austin Cambridge and
Morris Oxford. Only the grills and badges were different. They offered
nothing extra only appealing to good old Little Middle England British petty
snobbery.



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"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
mike wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:

I don't feel, and I don't think that
I have ever said that *all* tools
from a particular manufacturer
or brand are automatically... bad.

With respect, it appears that's what
you're doing he

I basically almost ignore the Power Devil, JCB ...

With respect, that is precisely what I am not doing.

I think most people with a basic grasp
of English would think you're
being disingenuous there, Andy. Maybe
you just have trouble admitting
when you're wrong.

Andy does have that problem.

In your one man crusade to win the affections
of IMM, .....

You go boozing with Andy don't you? You are one his cheerleaders.

snip tosh

The tosh continues......

There are are two or three regulars,
clearly impressed by your ability
to string a sentence together (even if
its doesn't stand up to logical
analysis), who'll step in to do some
cheer-leading for you when you go
off on one of your regular IMM-baiting
stunts, but I notice they've been

If IMM posts nonsense,

IMM has never posted nonsense at all. That is very clear. Being
intellectually four steps ahead of you, you can't keep up.



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"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
mike wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:

I don't feel, and I don't think that I have ever said that *all* tools
from a particular manufacturer or brand are automatically... bad.

With respect, it appears that's what you're doing he


I basically almost ignore the Power Devil, JCB ...

With respect, that is precisely what I am not doing.



I think most people with a basic grasp of English would think you're
being disingenuous there, Andy. Maybe you just have trouble admitting
when you're wrong.

In your one man crusade
hey count me in please

to win the affections of IMM,
err no not that, the sensible response is not to reply to moronic posts, and
the moronic posts feed on the responses of some who should know better but I
did get a really disingenuous reply from Andy about the Miele warranty.
Didn't respond because my ISP didn't carry the post, but basically Miele
only have a 5 or 10 year warranty if you buy it. Its only 2 years FOC and
as I said the retailer will wash his hands of it after 1 year.

And the JCB review was never "Best Buy" it was "Best Budget Buy". More
disinginuity in the response to that.

However I won't personalise this, or other posts further. And I tend not to
reply continuously to moronic posts. If others did the same problem solved.

Jim A

Grunff typed:

When Andy describes a product which he has looked at, he will usually
give a very detailed description of specific features and drawbacks of
the product. Whenever the description has been of a product I have
personal exprience with, it has correlated well with my own
assessment.

I would agree completely with that.

What iterates me and it appears others is the insistence that only
professional/industrial quality tools are a worthwhile purchase without any
regard to the end users real requirements.
Coupled with the insistence that anything sold in the likes of Lidl/aldy is
pikie rubbish, which also implies your quality of workmanship must therefor
be substandard.
If you, like andy cant get your head around the fact that not everyone
visiting this DIY group has the same needs and finance to support your views
then don't be surprised if this is disagreed with, in a similar way that you
like to disagree with Dimm.

"Mark" wrote in message
...
Grunff typed:

When Andy describes a product which he has looked at, he will usually
give a very detailed description of specific features and drawbacks of
the product. Whenever the description has been of a product I have
personal exprience with, it has correlated well with my own
assessment.

I would agree completely with that.

What iterates me and it appears others is the insistence that only
professional/industrial quality tools are a worthwhile purchase without
any
regard to the end users real requirements.

Hit the nail on the head.



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Mark wrote:

What iterates me and it appears others is the insistence that only
professional/industrial quality tools are a worthwhile purchase without any
regard to the end users real requirements.

I certainly don't believe this, and (while I can't speak for him) I
don't get the impression that Andy feels this way either.

The tools I own range from NuTool/Ferm grade stuff, though green Bosch
and Ryobi, to blue Bosch, Makita and DeWalt. If I could afford it, all
my tools would be from the last category. But I can't, so they aren't.

Some tools you can get a perfectly reasonable result with
cheap/intermediate products. However, I believe the point that has been
made time and again is that cordless drills tend to be a special case.
This is because they have a set of components which are inherently quite
expensive - low volt high power DC motors, batteries, chargers and speed
controllers.

I've owned cheap drills (I have a NuTool and a Clarke sitting in a box
in the garage), intermediate drills (green Bosch, Ryobi, PPPro,
Axminster White, Erbauer) and a Makita.

I worked my way up the price scale for cordless drills because I
repeatedly found that the drill I was using was in some way or another
'not good enough' for my needs. Reasons included low torque, poor
battery capacity, poor chuck, and short life. I ended up with the
Makita, which has so far served me very well.

If all I ever wanted to use my cordless drill for is drilling small
holes in wood, and screwdriving, I think the Erbauer would probably
still be with me.

I haven't felt the same about other tools. For instance, my sliding chop
saw is a 10" NuTool. It cost £140. The accuracy I can achieve with it is
not great, but it is just about good enough for my needs. The depth of
cut is also sufficient. Because of this, I can't justify buying a Makita
at £500, which would outperform it by miles, and be much nicer to use.

There is another tool which falls into the 'special case' category - SDS
drills. The reasons are slightly different than for cordless drills. In
this case, it's a simple case of manufacturing tolerances.

My first SDS was a NuTool. This broke. The replacement also broke. I
decided to get a DeWalt. This not only performed much better, but was
also much lighter and easier to use.




Coupled with the insistence that anything sold in the likes of Lidl/aldy is
pikie rubbish

Well....erm...I do think that this is largely true.


which also implies your quality of workmanship must therefor
be substandard.

No, I don't think so - I think it imples that it is generally more
difficult (and sometimes impossible) to achieve the same result with a
sub-standard tool.


--
Grunff

In article , Doctor Evil wrote:
But the Austin and Morris 1100s offered nothing different from
model to model,

No they didn't. But Austin dealers sold cars like the A40 and
(disastrous) 3-litre, later the Maxi, whilst Morris dealers had the
Minor, later the Marina.

"The dealers were right in their fears that cuts in their
organization would need to be made in order to fully amalgamate
Austin and Morris, but they wanted to maintain the status quo by not
accepting a single loss in the range and they fought very hard to do
so. Not only this, but they would not accept losses in their
distribution network, either. They used their influence with Lord to
ensure that there would not be a single compromise made. The dealer
principals could do this because they had direct access to Leonard
Lord and as such, had an exaggerated influence over direction of
BMC. They ensured that not only that Lord maintained separate
Nuffield Group and Austin model ranges, but also successfully
persuaded him to accept that the corporation required autonomous
dealer networks to sell them. If there had been a will within BMC to
break this stranglehold, then the dealer groups could call on
written contracts defining their positions, in some cases stretching
back fifty years."

http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/wschapter2f.htm

--
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Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

Just like BMC did with their badge engineering in the
60s/70s. An Austin 1100 was the same car as the Morris 110. They looked
the same and they never all came in the same colour. The hard of thinking
believed they were different cars underneath too, they were not. BMC were
playing on Little Middle England petty snobbery as people would wait 6
months for an Austin 1100 when they could walk away the next day with a
Morris 1100 for less money too.

Extract from Parkers Guide.

Morris 1100..... 1300..... 1800 - For all specifications and prices see
identical Austin ..... model.

Note for dIMM. That means Morris models were not cheaper.

--
Roger

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

Just like BMC did with their badge engineering in the
60s/70s. An Austin 1100 was the same car as the Morris 110. They
looked
the same and they never all came in the same colour. The hard of
thinking
believed they were different cars underneath too, they were not. BMC
were
playing on Little Middle England petty snobbery as people would wait 6
months for an Austin 1100 when they could walk away the next day with a
Morris 1100 for less money too.

Extract from Parkers Guide.

Morris 1100..... 1300..... 1800 - For all specifications and prices see
identical Austin ..... model.

Note for dIMM. That means Morris models were not cheaper.

Dim Lin the Oriental enchantress is not in the market for crappy British
cars, she is into the far eastern jobbies. How dare you insult here. Maxie
will have your guts for garters. Some people are just filth!



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On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 13:15:17 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:

Interesting. Makita say that Maktec is a pro tool, the same quality, just
a few features less. I looked at Screwfix and the Makita 12v drill/driver
with 2 batteries is £95. An extra battery is £45. So that is £140 with
three batteries. The Maktec, equiv., the same but red and a few different
moulding lines on the plastic case, is going for £80 inc p&p with 3
batteries.
http://www.ukindustry.co.uk/makita/maktec.htm

The difference is 32 torque settings to 19, well who is that fused on 32
settings anyway. So £60 difference. Quite a bit for basically the same
product.

Not quite, you need to shop around more. Best price I can find on a
12V Maktec and 3 batts is £59

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/store/browse.php3?site=froogle&sn=MAKMT063SK3

and the best price on a Makita 12V with 3 batts is £75:

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/products.php?cat=Cordless%20Drill%20%2F%20Drivers% 2012V&source=froogle

Comparint the specs of the two:

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/store/browse.php3?sn=MAKMT063SK3
http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/store/browse.php3?sn=MAK6227DWE3

the latter has:

"TCT" Total Control Trigger for precise variable speed control
Electric brake stops chuck quickly
Push-button forward/reverse switch for one handed operation

which looks like it accounts for the extra £16.

They have been bitten hard by the Riyobi's, etc, so much so they have
created a new range. Just like BMC did with their badge engineering in the

snip drivel...

cheers,
Pete.

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 13:15:17 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:

Interesting. Makita say that Maktec is a pro tool, the same quality,
just
a few features less. I looked at Screwfix and the Makita 12v
drill/driver
with 2 batteries is £95. An extra battery is £45. So that is £140 with
three batteries. The Maktec, equiv., the same but red and a few
different
moulding lines on the plastic case, is going for £80 inc p&p with 3
batteries.
http://www.ukindustry.co.uk/makita/maktec.htm

The difference is 32 torque settings to 19, well who is that fused on 32
settings anyway. So £60 difference. Quite a bit for basically the same
product.

Not quite, you need to shop around more. Best price I can find on a
12V Maktec and 3 batts is £59

That is a clearance sale.

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/store/browse.php3?site=froogle&sn=MAKMT063SK3

and the best price on a Makita 12V with 3 batts is £75:


http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...%20Drill%20%2F
%20Drivers%2012V&source=froogle

No. £88 inc VAT

snip drivel





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In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Who said you have to use 'traditional' masonry drills?


Were did you or Andy specify with a.n.other type. Very blanket
statement saying you can drill into masonry without hammer unless you
also post the info as to which type of (overpriced and not that good )
drill bit you then need to use, so not to destroy your traditional
drill bits.

You can drill into many types of 'masonry' with an ordinary HSS twist
drill - which may also be easily sharpened afterwards with a modicum of
skill.

The more difficult - ie harder types of concrete or masonry will laugh at
a hammer drill and masonry bit - you need SDS.

Mark, only on the Internet you get this.

John, get off your arse, stop just reading websites, and get drilling. I
no longer use a hammer drill for anything. Of course, you seem to want to
use a cheap SDS which is so heavy you'd really have to be desperate to use
it. Others with sense will have bought one little less wieldy than an
ordinary mains drill - and don't have to buy expensive masonry bits every
5 minutes due to trying to use totally outdated and poor technology.

Perhaps you need to find a field where your surfing skills are appreciated.
Answers appreciated. But as regards DIY - get a life.

--
*OK, who stopped payment on my reality check?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
mike wrote:
Nope. Opinions are from looking at the products. I couldn't find
anything that impressed me.

Oh, right. So IMM looks at a product, expresses an opinion about it and
you lambast him for being uninformed and unequipped to render a
worthwhile conclusion. But when you do the same, we're supposed to
treat you like Moses returning with a stone tablet. I'm sure someone of
your obvious intellect knows the meaning of the word "hypocrite".

Mike - for gawd's sake. John doesn't know a drill from a biscuit jointer.
He merely quotes specs and prices, without understanding either.

Andy buys and uses the things he talks about - so at least has a
worthwhile opinion on those he has merely had a play with.

--
*Is there another word for synonym?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Interesting. Makita say that Maktec is a pro tool, the same quality,
just a few features less. I looked at Screwfix and the Makita 12v
drill/driver with 2 batteries is £95. An extra battery is £45. So that
is £140 with three batteries. The Maktec, equiv., the same but red and
a few different moulding lines on the plastic case, is going for £80 inc
p&p with 3 batteries.

Window shopping again.

Only on the internet do you get prats like this who are so conned by
advertising that they believe everything they read.

--
*The hardness of the butter is proportional to the softness of the bread *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
The ones I saw were all BMC dealers and sold the lot. Or Austin/Morris
dealers. On becoming BMC Austin and Morris dealers merged very quickly.

The pieces are coming together. If you remember this as a car buyer you're
an old man, which accounts for the fact that you can't actually do
anything DIY anymore, but sit in your sheltered home and surf the net for
your 'opinions'.

BMC - basically the amalgamation between Austin and the Nuffield group
took place in the early '50s. So if about 20, that makes you 80 odd.

Perhaps you could ask your nurse to reduce your medication before posting?

--
*It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
You can drill into many types of 'masonry' with an ordinary HSS twist
drill - which may also be easily sharpened afterwards with a modicum of
skill.


Anyone who advocates this, IMO, comes under the heading of an
incompetent. The HSS drill can be resharpened, but will never drill a
hole to the original specified diameter again. It is an exceedingly
stupid practice!

Regards
Capitol

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Andy buys and uses the things he talks about - so at least has a

possibly

worthwhile opinion on those he has merely had a play with.


Regards
Capitol