In article .com,
StealthUK wrote:
Depends on the model of Ryobi, there are at least 3 different recent
18V models with the latest 1803 model having 55Nm max torque.

I've only got one Ryobi - a cordless 'Dremel' type, which has been quite
superb. Still on the original batteries despite a lot of use, so they must
be decent ones - a sign of quality on any cordless tool.

Of course they may have gone downmarket. DeWalt, Bosch and others appear
to with at least some of their products. On the other hand, some older B&D
tools were very good - I've got a Tradesman vari-speed drill that's had a
hard DIY life and is still fine.

If you had to be sure of satisfaction with just one make it would have to
be Makita or Metabo, I'd guess, out of the non esoteric brands.

--
*Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
But I thought you bought purely on price?

Price/performance my dear chappie.

But since you constantly recommend things you haven't tried, how can you
be sure of anything other than price?

Anyone can read adverts or catalogues.

--
*When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
They must have changed the colour as they were all red originally, so
that gullible people like you would buy them.

I don't believe you.

Wicks 'own brand' power tools were originally red, and IIRC they were the
first shed in the UK to have their own brand. They presumably used Krell
because they were originally a German owned company too - and when they
started this - over 15 years ago - the Chinese weren't making this sort of
tool in any great quantity for export, unlike today.

--
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:59:15 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 03:35:44 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:


There's no need. Just pick up anything else in any DIY store at the
same price point. THey are all basically the same.

Given that many of the tools in the sheds are sourced from the same
Chinese OEMs, they are often _exactly_ the same except for the label and
colour of the plastic. There is one half inch router that I have seen
badged at least half a dozen different ways...

I went to the Woodworking show at Alexandra Palace.

Once I'd battled through the north London traffic for nearly two
hours, I walked around the show for about three hours and looked
carefully at a range of tools on the different stands.

I looked for a while at the small number of stands selling tat. There
really is a lot of rubbish for sale.

Then I spent some time looking at what Ryobi had to offer. Slightly
better, but the same warning bells that many of the products are
embellished with useless "features" like misaligned laser guides.
Pretty but worthless. I thought that the drills and circular saw
were especially shoddy.

I don't belive this. You can pick up a Ryobi at most B&Qs now and they
certainly ouse quality in looks, feels and touch.


I don't really care what you believe.

I know what I saw and picked up and examined closely, and sorry to
disappoint you but Ryobi underwhelmed me considerably



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:59:15 -0000, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 03:35:44 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:


There's no need. Just pick up anything else in any DIY store at
the
same price point. THey are all basically the same.

Given that many of the tools in the sheds are sourced from the same
Chinese OEMs, they are often _exactly_ the same except for the label
and
colour of the plastic. There is one half inch router that I have seen
badged at least half a dozen different ways...

I went to the Woodworking show at Alexandra Palace.

Once I'd battled through the north London traffic for nearly two
hours, I walked around the show for about three hours and looked
carefully at a range of tools on the different stands.

I looked for a while at the small number of stands selling tat. There
really is a lot of rubbish for sale.

Then I spent some time looking at what Ryobi had to offer. Slightly
better, but the same warning bells that many of the products are
embellished with useless "features" like misaligned laser guides.
Pretty but worthless. I thought that the drills and circular saw
were especially shoddy.

I don't belive this. You can pick up a Ryobi at most B&Qs now and they
certainly ouse quality in looks, feels and touch.

I don't really care what you believe.

I know what I saw and picked up and examined closely, and sorry to
disappoint you but Ryobi underwhelmed me considerably

I still don't believe you.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Kaiser wrote:
I have a Red Wickes 4.5" angle grinder supposedly made by Kress, or so I
was told when I purchased it. It is the biggest load of crap I've ever
bought. The Switch is stiff and often doesn't latch, you can't fit
cutting discs on it because the collars on the spindle have too much
shoulder on them, and it vibrates like nothing on earth. But it would
probably be ideal for you.

I've got one of those too. The switch button mechanics do jam due to dirt
- but a quick squirt of cleaning spray sorts it. I've not had trouble
finding ordinary discs, but diamond ones don't fit - or at least the ones
I've tried. Wouldn't say it's rough, though. Mine is mainly used with
those cup brushes for removing paint from metal, etc. I'd say the switch
jamming would be a real pain when cutting stone etc and producing a lot of
dust. It was exceptional value for money when bought some 15 years ago.

--
Must be getting on for 15 years ago when I bought mine although it's had
little use. I had a Red Wickes SDS (also made by Kress) at the same time
although that didn't last too long. I now buy Bosch tools if possible apart
from one18volt DeWalt SDS drill, as I need them for work and can't afford
for them to keep breaking.

In article ,
Capitol wrote:
A good example is Miele, a washer controller is about £250, from
Miele. It is almost exactly the same as the unit in a Hoover Logic
series washing machine, which is available for £50. Both units come from
the same component supplier for about £10. The customer believes he is
buying reliability, tosh. He's buying a marketing image, in which a high
initial selling price, supports the service operation.

And both machines may be fitted with the same cable or plug.
Doesn't mean the Miele isn't head and shoulders above a Hoover, though.

--
*Why isn't there a special name for the back of your knee?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
But I thought you bought purely on price?

Price/performance my dear chappie.

But since you constantly recommend things you haven't tried,

That is exactly what you do. Have you put in the cheapest oil available in
your engine yet? You must do thins.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
They must have changed the colour as they were all red originally, so
that gullible people like you would buy them.

I don't believe you.

Wicks 'own brand' power tools were originally red,

I know that. I don't believe everything else he wrote.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
But since you constantly recommend things you haven't tried,

That is exactly what you do. Have you put in the cheapest oil available
in your engine yet? You must do thins.

No. You're the one recommending the cheapest oil. I never have. I stick to
the spec recommended by the engine maker who knows rather more than you -
as does just about everyone else.

--
*A cubicle is just a padded cell without a door.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
But since you constantly recommend things you haven't tried,

That is exactly what you do. Have you put in the cheapest oil available
in your engine yet? You must do thins.

No. You're the one recommending the cheapest oil.

Oh you do jest. You only want to put the cheapest and nastiest oil in. That
is fine for you, so please do it ASAP.



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Andy Hall wrote:

You can add routers to that list.


Yes, I'd forgotten those.

It seems that you have to go to about £160-170 for a reasonably good
1/2" one like the Freud. The £80-100 DIY store specials are either
underpowered, vibrate, or have poor mechanics and people end up
thinking that routing is no good as a technique or that they are
lacking in skill. Neither is really the case. Properly set up
and supported, a decent router does a good job.

I looked at one of the PPro 1/2" ones, and found that superficially it
looked ok with a couple of nice touches like dust extraction up the leg
etc. It was only on picking one up you found the plunge was pretty
rough, reports from other users also seemed to say it delivered nothing
like the claimed power either.

The real killer (possibly literally) was the minimum speed however, it
would not go below about 15k rpm. With a large diameter cutter in a
table, that was going to be lethal!

The Freud that I got in the end however is ideally suited to large
cutters, low speed, and feedback speed control.

Jig saws are an odd category, since there are low and high end tools
(with such a vast gulf in performance difference between them that to
all intents they may as well be different tools altogether), and yet
there is no apparent middle ground...


This was the strange one to me too. I can't think of any other power
tool where the divide is so great, but it is. For a long time I
dismissed jig saws as not worth bothering with.

Same here... I had used lots of different models over the years in the
= 50 quid range, and concluded that while fine for rough cutting a
shape, or making holes in worktops for sinks etc, they were not a tool
you would instinctively choose for much else. Since having a decent one
however, it has is transformed into something I use for a whole range of
tasks that would have been impossible / tiresome with what I used to
think a jigsaw was.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Andy Hall wrote:


Hitachi had some nice circular saws and the jigsaw I saw wasn't too
bad, although I wasn't able to see it powered.

I used a large Hitachi saw (about 300mm IIRC) that belonged to a friend
of mine who is a pro joiner... like most of his tools it looked like it
had been through the wars, rattling round in the back of the van,
getting trodden on, things spilt on it etc. Based on the look of it, I
was not expecting that much. Having rip cut four 4m lengths 6x2" into 16
firrings however I was well impressed! Very smooth, powerful, vibration
free, accurate cut. No unwanted flexibility in the base, good
adjustments of all the main parameters, nice balance, and handles
exactly where you want and need them. It would also cut over 3" deep
making it far more useful than those that run out at 60mm.

I have a 270mm B&D proline saw that bought many years ago which I
thought was quite good (this was their top end range before they bought
Elu and DeWalt etc), and compared to many tools at the time was actually
quite good. However the Hitachi blows it away in every respect.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
They must have changed the colour as they were all red originally, so
that gullible people like you would buy them.

I don't believe you.

Wicks 'own brand' power tools were originally red,

I know that. I don't believe everything else he wrote.

What did I write that you don't believe, about you being gullible? well it's
true, you are.

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
No. You're the one recommending the cheapest oil.

Oh you do jest. You only want to put the cheapest and nastiest oil in.
That is fine for you, so please do it ASAP.

Since you snipped the bit about using oil to the specifaction - or better
- than that recommended by the engine maker, I take it you think you know
more than them too?

A fool and his money... Unfortunately it's usually other's money you try
to waste.

Stick to telling us to buy cheap tools. Like all pros use. In your dreams.

--
*It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Kaiser" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
They must have changed the colour as they were all red originally,
so
that gullible people like you would buy them.

I don't believe you.

Wicks 'own brand' power tools were originally red,

I know that. I don't believe everything else he wrote.

What did I write that you don't believe,

Mr Cheese, all of it except the red bit.



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Mr Cheese,


Unlike you Adam, John, IMM, Doctor Evil, top gear, I don't feel the need to
change my name every week.


Kaiser

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Mr Cheese, all of it except the red bit.

Wonder what a trick cyclist would make of John's constant need to give
nicknames to many and avoid using his own name?

--
*I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Kaiser" wrote in message
...


Mr Cheese,

Unlike ...

Mr Cheese, you have a few names, that is clear. Do you go to thinking
school?


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
No. You're the one recommending the cheapest oil.

Oh you do jest. You only want to put the cheapest and nastiest oil in.
That is fine for you, so please do it ASAP.

A fool and his money...

A penny pinching fool usually fails.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

Mr Cheese, all of it except the red bit.

Wonder

Richard, Mr Cheese is his real name.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Dave Plowman (News) typed:

Andy Hall wrote:
I don't have or use a hammer action on
either of them because for masonry work above that level I
occasionally use a corded drill

Yup. I can't see the benefit of the added complication and weight of
hammer action on a cordless, given that most common bricks etc can be
drilled OK with a decent bit and no hammer action.

Well im slightly surprised you have gone along with this one.

Masonry drills tips are ground to a chisel edge and are designed to be used
in a hammer action, this angle means they don't cut. Ever tried drilling
into wood with one ?
So the only why you make a hole in masonry with one is by abrasive friction,
which will
a) blunt your drill
or b) as the carbide tip is brazed onto a softer shank, melt the tip off.

This is one for the misuse of tools, bad working practice, and a qualifying
point in the.
"Wrong type of engineer badge"


--
Mark§

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

Mr Cheese, all of it except the red bit.

Wonder

Richard, Mr Cheese is his real name.

My real name is Mr Kaiser to you, I don't need to hide behind nicknames like
you.

"Mark" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) typed:

Andy Hall wrote:
I don't have or use a hammer action on
either of them because for masonry work above that level I
occasionally use a corded drill

Yup. I can't see the benefit of the added complication and weight of
hammer action on a cordless, given that most common bricks etc can be
drilled OK with a decent bit and no hammer action.

Well im slightly surprised you have gone along with this one.

Masonry drills tips are ground to a chisel edge and are designed to be
used
in a hammer action, this angle means they don't cut. Ever tried drilling
into wood with one ?
So the only why you make a hole in masonry with one is by abrasive
friction,
which will
a) blunt your drill
or b) as the carbide tip is brazed onto a softer shank, melt the tip
off.

This is one for the misuse of tools, bad working practice, and a
qualifying
point in the.
"Wrong type of engineer badge"

That fits.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

"Kaiser" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

Mr Cheese, all of it except the red bit.

Wonder

Richard, Mr Cheese is his real name.

My real name is Mr Kaiser to you,

Kaiser is cheese, we all know that. Mr Cheese, how could you?



_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

IMM wrote:

You can pick up a Ryobi at most B&Qs now and they
certainly OUSE quality in looks, feels and touch.


Please, please, buy an English dictionary, read and learn what the
words mean and then use them!! English is not a complicated language,
even for a foreigner, with care!

LOL
Capitol

"Capitol" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

You can pick up a Ryobi at most B&Qs now and they
certainly OUSE quality in looks, feels and touch.


Please, please, buy an English dictionary, read and learn what the
words mean and then use them!! English is not a complicated language,
even for a foreigner, with care!

No it oused.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Doctor Evil typed:

and a
qualifying point in the.
"Wrong type of engineer badge"

That fits.



Yes feel at home, you've already earned the 5stars and bar on yours :-)

In article ,
Mark wrote:
Masonry drills tips are ground to a chisel edge and are designed to be
used in a hammer action, this angle means they don't cut. Ever tried
drilling into wood with one ? So the only why you make a hole in masonry
with one is by abrasive friction, which will a) blunt your drill or b)
as the carbide tip is brazed onto a softer shank, melt the tip off.

Who said you have to use 'traditional' masonry drills?

This is one for the misuse of tools, bad working practice, and a
qualifying point in the. "Wrong type of engineer badge"

Or wrong choice of tools for the job.

--
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) typed:

In article ,
Mark wrote:
Masonry drills tips are ground to a chisel edge and are designed to
be used in a hammer action, this angle means they don't cut. Ever
tried drilling into wood with one ? So the only why you make a hole
in masonry with one is by abrasive friction, which will a) blunt
your drill or b) as the carbide tip is brazed onto a softer shank,
melt the tip off.

Who said you have to use 'traditional' masonry drills?


Were did you or Andy specify with a.n.other type.
Very blanket statement saying you can drill into masonry without hammer
unless you also post the info as to which type of (overpriced and not that
good ) drill bit you then need to use, so not to destroy your traditional
drill bits.

Kaiser wrote:

Unlike you Adam, John, IMM, Doctor Evil, top gear, I don't feel the need to
change my name every week.

Seems a bit unfair on topgear, being lumped in with company like that...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Capitol wrote:

IMM wrote:

certainly OUSE quality in looks, feels and touch.


Please, please, buy an English dictionary, read and learn what the
words mean and then use them!! English is not a complicated language,
even for a foreigner, with care!

Perhaps he was trying to say "fit for a river and not much else..."


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Doctor Evil wrote:

"Capitol" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:

You can pick up a Ryobi at most B&Qs now and they

certainly OUSE quality in looks, feels and touch.


Please, please, buy an English dictionary, read and learn what the
words mean and then use them!! English is not a complicated language,
even for a foreigner, with care!


No it oused.

An eloquent reinforcement of Capitol's point I might say!


Try this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...ternodeltdcomp

Sounds about the right level:

"The Oxford Reading Tree Dictionary: * Features all the favourite ORT
characters from Floppy to Wilma * Alphabet down the side of each page *
300 colour headwords and colour illustrations * Special topic words at
the back to help with extended word level work and introduction on how
to get the best out of the dictionary"

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

The message
from John Rumm contains these words:

Unlike you Adam, John, IMM, Doctor Evil, top gear, I don't feel the
need to
change my name every week.

Seems a bit unfair on top gear, being lumped in with company like that...

Since John used his top gear persona instead of Dr Evil for his usual
response to me I have been convinced they are indeed but facets of the
same diseased mind.

--
Roger

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from John Rumm contains these words:

Unlike you Adam, John, IMM, Doctor Evil, top gear, I don't feel the
need to
change my name every week.

Seems a bit unfair on top gear, being lumped in with company like
that...

Since
..............
Have you sent any abusive personal emails to people lately?


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

Roger wrote:

The message
from John Rumm contains these words:


Unlike you Adam, John, IMM, Doctor Evil, top gear, I don't feel the
need to
change my name every week.


Seems a bit unfair on top gear, being lumped in with company like that...

I was not convinced... but...

hmmm then again, just looked back over the (short) history. There does
seem to be one or two slip ups doesent there

not only that, there is only one post to a ng other than this one, and
that is a basic question to a prius one ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

Since
..............
Have you

Snip dishonest drivel.

--
Roger

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
not only that, there is only one post to a ng other than this one, and
that is a basic question to a prius one ;-)

Given that the Prius is only bought by nutcases in the UK, it's safe to
assume they are one and the same person...

--
*Forget the Joneses, I keep us up with the Simpsons.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Roger" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Doctor Evil" contains these words:

Since
..............
Have you

Snip dishonest drivel.

Fascinating, absolutely fascinating.


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:


As long as you haven't prostituted your
organisation to the large retailers and have maintained a quality
position and service to your customers, I think that you can have a
bright future. On the other hand, if you are dancing to the tune of
B&Q, Screwfix, Home Depot and all the rest, what will you use to
differentiate yourselves from the volume factories in China?

So, Andy, which manufacturers do you think haven't prostituted
themselves?

Bosch who bought Skil so they had a brand they could sell cheaply, but
who now sell their own brand drills through Argos for the same price as
Power Devil?

Black and Decker, who were never taken serioulsy in the pro tool market,
bought De Walt, and then ruined their reputation by selling B&D crud in
yellow cases?

Makita who are currently flogging Maktec drills for £25?