What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools? My right angle drill
packed up 1 day inside the 1 year warrenty period, thank god. I took
it to the service agents who suggested that DeWalt were rubbish and I
would have been better off buying something else.
For a drill to seriously overheat within a year of purchase seems to
suggest something amiss, especially as this was a right angle drill
and hardly got much use anyway.

Kevin

In article ,
(Kevin) writes:
What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools? My right angle drill
packed up 1 day inside the 1 year warrenty period, thank god. I took
it to the service agents who suggested that DeWalt were rubbish and I
would have been better off buying something else.
For a drill to seriously overheat within a year of purchase seems to
suggest something amiss, especially as this was a right angle drill
and hardly got much use anyway.

Overheating a drill doesn't usually have much to do with age of it.
You could do that 5 minutes after you bought it, or never, depending
how you use it.

You could buy a drill with thermal protection, but this doesn't
absolve you from the responsibility to use it sensibly.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools? My right angle drill
packed up 1 day inside the 1 year warrenty period, thank god. I took
it to the service agents who suggested that DeWalt were rubbish and I
would have been better off buying something else.
For a drill to seriously overheat within a year of purchase seems to
suggest something amiss, especially as this was a right angle drill
and hardly got much use anyway.


Overheating a drill doesn't usually have much to do with age of it.
You could do that 5 minutes after you bought it, or never, depending
how you use it.


I did! I burnt my DW566 out. Entirely my fault.

Superb tool, and great spares availability/pricing. Will be buying many
more DeWalts.

--
Grunff

In article ,
Kevin wrote:
What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools? My right angle drill
packed up 1 day inside the 1 year warrenty period, thank god. I took
it to the service agents who suggested that DeWalt were rubbish and I
would have been better off buying something else.

You took it to De Walt service - who make their living by fixing De Walt
products - and they suggested you buy something else?

Methinks this stinks somewhat.

Buy a PPPro from B&Q. No problems with a service centre there.

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Alex wrote:

Whilst I am a Makita man myself, I can't fault DeWalt products.

I like my Makita combi lots too. I don't think there's a lot to choose
in quality, but there are some tools where Makita win on price/specs,
and some where DeWalt win.


Tell you what though, I used a Milwaukee (sp?) the other day - looked crap,
but felt very solid in use, I was impressed.

Don't think I've ever seen one in the flesh - seen them on US websites.
Who stockes them?

--
Grunff

In uk.d-i-y, Grunff wrote:

Tell you what though, I used a Milwaukee (sp?) the other day - looked crap,
but felt very solid in use, I was impressed.

Don't think I've ever seen one in the flesh - seen them on US websites.
Who stockes them?

They're the badge under which Atlas-Copco are sold in the US. Some places
in the UK sell them online - you can Google as well as I can - and I have
a couple I bought for work through one such outfit. For long-term spares
supply, you may be better off buying it under the Atlas-Copco brand it's
"supposed" to be sold under in the UK - I'm not sure if the Milwaukee ones
sold here are "grey imports" which the mfr will while about warrantee claims
for (yes I do know the claim is "really" against the seller, but if it's
been sold (a) by some Web-based outfit which closes down and reopens under
a new name every 1-2 years, (b) has been sold for "trade" rather than
"consumer" use, any Sale-of-Goods-Acts rights may prove difficult to
enforce...)

They are very nice-to-use meaty tools, mind you! Especially useful for
custom modifications to 19" rack units to hold non-standard bits of kit
in the hardware lab. "Fridge? No, that's not a domestic fridge, guv: it's
a Hardware Environmental-Stress Test Unit." Next comes the "2.4 GHz
electromagnetic-immunity test device", which we'd *never* use to heat
up pies....

Stefek

wrote:

They're the badge under which Atlas-Copco are sold in the US. Some places
in the UK sell them online - you can Google as well as I can - and I have
a couple I bought for work through one such outfit.

There you are! I was beginning to wonder where you'd vanished to.


They are very nice-to-use meaty tools, mind you! Especially useful for
custom modifications to 19" rack units to hold non-standard bits of kit
in the hardware lab. "Fridge? No, that's not a domestic fridge, guv: it's
a Hardware Environmental-Stress Test Unit." Next comes the "2.4 GHz
electromagnetic-immunity test device", which we'd *never* use to heat
up pies....

lol.

I will keep an eye out next time I'm looking for power tools (am I ever
/not/ looking?).


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools? My right angle drill
packed up 1 day inside the 1 year warrenty period, thank god. I took
it to the service agents who suggested that DeWalt were rubbish and I
would have been better off buying something else.
For a drill to seriously overheat within a year of purchase seems to
suggest something amiss, especially as this was a right angle drill
and hardly got much use anyway.


Overheating a drill doesn't usually have much to do with age of it.
You could do that 5 minutes after you bought it, or never, depending
how you use it.


I did! I burnt my DW566 out. Entirely my fault.

Superb tool, and great spares availability/pricing. Will be buying many
more DeWalts.

--
Grunff

Whilst I am a Makita man myself, I can't fault DeWalt products. Sure there
have been the occasional 'surprises' (my DeWalt heat gun is the same as
B&D's) - but if they were as crap as your service agent suggests why would
people go back to them again and again?

Tell you what though, I used a Milwaukee (sp?) the other day - looked crap,
but felt very solid in use, I was impressed.

Alex

In uk.d-i-y, Grunff wrote:

There you are! I was beginning to wonder where you'd vanished to.

Up the Wye Valley, looking after 40+ kids for two weeks. "Holiday" isn't
p'raps the most obvious word for it. d-i-y skills aplenty, mind, principally
of the sanitary variety - satisfying turn-the-flapper-in-the-syphon-round
so it works again, less satisfying retrieving Items part-flushed down the
crapper :-( More fun was the "bomb detonator": take one Woolies el-cheapo
cordless screwdriver, price 5.99; grind a good-enuff approximation
of 6mm hex flats onto the end of a piece of 8mm studding; place long
(threaded-rod-joining) nut with expoxied-on Piercing Poing onto other end
of rod, tape body of driver to wooden backing board with stack of plastic
corner blocks either side of nut-with-piercer, replace driver's built-in
switch with two singles joined to the Green&Blue and Orange&Brown pairs
of a sacrificial Cat5 cable, cause kiddies to hunt for Cat5 extenders
and Cat5 patchcords, and old metalclad plateswitch with same pairs of
other end of chopped Cat5 across its switched terminals. Place driver
up close and personal to large balloon with added custard-powder within.
Press switch: whirr, whirr, whirr, nut-with-piercer winds slowly along
threaded rod guided by corner blocks, whirr, whirr, nothings going to
happBANG. Shower of custard powder, satisfied kids.

Best moments of d-i-y-related light relief came from the fire alarm, which
went off (a) 4 times during the day in our absence with just the cooking
volunteers present, who reset the panel each time but didn't know to look
for the little LED on the detectors to tell us which one had gorn orf, as
opposed to just which zone had trigerred the alarm; (b) at 02:30 in the
morning - at least we could find the detector which was raising the alarm,
replace it with a spare, discover the spare wasn't working, replace with
a new working spare, sleep soundly having cleaned out large quantity of
dead insects from the detector-head which had been causing the alarm; and
(c) at 18:10-18:20 the next day - unclip sensor, ooh look there's Something
Moving around the cable-entry point, it's an insect of some sort, a
WASP? oh b****r surely not a wapsesnest in the attic!?, no, closer
examination shows it and the two others which came out in the next 10 mins
to be honeybees rather than waspen; presumably exploring their new locale
and (at least in the day) attracted by the little bit of daylight visible
through the smoke-detector screen. Fill up cable-entry hole with silicone
sealant to discourage further insect access, no more fire-allarum problems
for the remaining 10? days occupancy.

Ahh, the joys of intermittently-occupied multiple-user properties! This one
has a particularly ingeneous derangement for controlling the fire alarm:
there's a keyswitch which isolates (effectively, turns off) the fire alarum,
which can only be removed from the fire alarum panel in the "alarm on"
position, and is required to turn on the main contactor which turns on
the electric for the whole building and its outbuildings. Clever, eh?
This way, the fire alarm is off when the place is unoccupied (no-one
around to hear the alarm, all it would do is discharge the panel's
batteries in driving the bells), but it's infeasible to comfortably
occupy the property without turning on the fire alarm, at least if you
want any electricity! (And the circuits which keep the emergency lighting
and the fire-alarm's backup battery charged are pre-contactor, before you
ask, so those safety-related lead-acids are kept topped up even when the
place is unoccupied...)

Cheers, Stefek

wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, Grunff wrote:

There you are! I was beginning to wonder where you'd vanished to.


Up the Wye Valley, looking after 40+ kids for two weeks.

OMG!! Were you abducted and forced to do this?


Place driver
up close and personal to large balloon with added custard-powder within.
Press switch: whirr, whirr, whirr, nut-with-piercer winds slowly along
threaded rod guided by corner blocks, whirr, whirr, nothings going to
happBANG. Shower of custard powder, satisfied kids.

Surely you could've come up with something more injurious than custard
powder ;-)


--
Grunff

In uk.d-i-y, Grunff wrote:

Surely you could've come up with something more injurious than custard
powder ;-)

The initial impulse was to use a condom filled with purple-dyed flour,
but on mature (yeah right) reflection that seemed an unnecessary echo
of the parliamentary stunt; and explaining to all the 7-11 year-olds
exactly why that big ballon had the funny little end-bit on it might've
been a Step Too Far ;-)

Stefek

Grunff wrote:

Don't think I've ever seen one in the flesh - seen them on US websites.
Who stockes them?

Wickes I should think with spelling like that! :-)

--
Chris Green

wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y, Grunff wrote:

Tell you what though, I used a Milwaukee (sp?) the other day - looked
crap,
but felt very solid in use, I was impressed.

Don't think I've ever seen one in the flesh - seen them on US websites.
Who stockes them?

They're the badge under which Atlas-Copco are sold in the US. Some places
in the UK sell them online - you can Google as well as I can - and I have
a couple I bought for work through one such outfit. For long-term spares
supply, you may be better off buying it under the Atlas-Copco brand it's
"supposed" to be sold under in the UK - I'm not sure if the Milwaukee ones
sold here are "grey imports" which the mfr will while about warrantee
claims
for (yes I do know the claim is "really" against the seller, but if it's
been sold (a) by some Web-based outfit which closes down and reopens under
a new name every 1-2 years, (b) has been sold for "trade" rather than
"consumer" use, any Sale-of-Goods-Acts rights may prove difficult to
enforce...)


This was a car mechanic friend of mine who owned it - he certainly gave the
impression that quite a few of his colleagues used them too. I did a quick
search on google, which shows a few UK stockists.

No idea on reliability, but if I had to guess I'd say they'd be good (based
on the brief time I used it), and they seem reassuringly expensive to buy

Alex

"Alex" wrote in message
...
"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools? My right angle drill
packed up 1 day inside the 1 year warrenty period, thank god. I took
it to the service agents who suggested that DeWalt were rubbish and I
would have been better off buying something else.
For a drill to seriously overheat within a year of purchase seems to
suggest something amiss, especially as this was a right angle drill
and hardly got much use anyway.


Overheating a drill doesn't usually have much to do with age of it.
You could do that 5 minutes after you bought it, or never, depending
how you use it.


I did! I burnt my DW566 out. Entirely my fault.

Superb tool, and great spares availability/pricing. Will be buying many
more DeWalts.

--
Grunff

Whilst I am a Makita man myself, I can't fault DeWalt products. Sure there
have been the occasional 'surprises' (my DeWalt heat gun is the same as
B&D's) - but if they were as crap as your service agent suggests why would
people go back to them again and again?

Tell you what though, I used a Milwaukee (sp?) the other day - looked
crap,
but felt very solid in use, I was impressed.


Don't let the looks fool you - they're industrial to the core.

Quick company recap (from memory)....

Atlas Copco are a very large industrial tool group - they do huge
compressors, mining tools, big pneumatic stuff, etc.

They're a group, and have a number of brands and operating companies, the
ones of interest to us are Milwaukee (predominantly USA), Atlas Copco & AEG
Electric Tools.

They used to be mostly sold as Atlas Copco tools in the UK, D&M sell them
but don't now have the AC branded tools on their website
(www.dm-tools.co.uk), Milwaukee are there, though. The identical tools were
sold as Milwaukee in the States, but it seems that in the last two years
they have launched the brand over here & they're to be seen cropping up on
the various DIY tv makeover programs now. AEG is their "trade" brand, ie
lighter duty than AC and Milwaukee.

I speak to the folks at dm relatively frequently (whenever I pop into the
shop) & a conversation I had with them ages ago revealed that they liked the
tools because they had very few problems with returns on their mail-order
sales with them, & the tools seemed to be v. reliable.

I've got two of the tools & they're the kipper's tits (as I read somewhere
recently...) - a small 9.6v drill/driver (that came with a 13mm chuck &
actually has the torque to cope with it) and a 240v jigsaw - BSPE100XL or
something like that. I love 'em both. No nonsense, beautifully built,
accurate.

I really wish I'd bought the AC circular saw instead of the slightly-cheaper
DW that I bought. Had to repair thatjust out of warranty - fan assembly
came adrift from the armature & would have been a £70 fix. JBWeld sorted it
out though. (but the baseplate & saw accuracy is still pants).

As you can tell, I like them!

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Kevin wrote:
What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools? My right angle drill
packed up 1 day inside the 1 year warrenty period, thank god. I took
it to the service agents who suggested that DeWalt were rubbish and I
would have been better off buying something else.

You took it to De Walt service - who make their living by fixing De Walt
products - and they suggested you buy something else?

funnily enough, this is almost exactly what the service centre said when I
took my DW circular saw to see if they could repair it! Although they sold
both, they said the Makita was a hell of a lot better tool. Ah, for the
benefit of Hindsight!



Methinks this stinks somewhat.

Buy a PPPro from B&Q. No problems with a service centre there.


eeks, run away... :-)



--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

"Kevin" wrote in message
om...
What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools? My right angle drill
packed up 1 day inside the 1 year warrenty period, thank god. I took
it to the service agents who suggested that DeWalt were rubbish and I
would have been better off buying something else.
For a drill to seriously overheat within a year of purchase seems to
suggest something amiss, especially as this was a right angle drill
and hardly got much use anyway.

Kevin

IMHO and experience they're (De Walt tools) a bag o' ****e. Quality falls
far short of what most people perceive [a triumph of marketing really].

Maybe that's why they're favoured by Scrapheap Challenge and the TV makeover
progs...because they only need to last a weekend at the most.



David.

Stefek wrote
| Surely you could've come up with something more injurious than
| custard powder ;-)
| ... and explaining to all the 7-11 year-olds exactly why that
| big ballon had the funny little end-bit on it might've been
| a Step Too Far ;-)

They'll all know anyway.

When I was a lad the only banana we saw in school was the domestic science
teacher making a fruit salad.

Owain

On 11 Aug 2004 05:06:47 -0700, (Kevin) wrote:

What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools? My right angle drill
packed up 1 day inside the 1 year warrenty period, thank god. I took
it to the service agents who suggested that DeWalt were rubbish and I
would have been better off buying something else.
For a drill to seriously overheat within a year of purchase seems to
suggest something amiss, especially as this was a right angle drill
and hardly got much use anyway.

Kevin

Generally I've had good results with their drills and screwdrivers,
not with a biscuit jointer which had a design fault.

Personally for drills I like my Makita rechargable angle and normal
drills. Then I have a large Bosch SDS which is pretty good.

BTW, don't be hoodwinked by warranty periods. They are a convenience
for the retailer and manufacturer only and sometimes used as a
marketing tool. If you have paid for a DeWalt or other branded
tool and used it as specified, then it is reasonable to push statutory
rights. I wouldn't expect to pay for a repair for three years at
least and would push the point. Remember that if you are spending
north of £100, always use a credit card, then the card company is on
the hook as well.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On 11 Aug 2004 05:06:47 -0700, (Kevin) wrote:

What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools?

Reasonable quality cheap tools, sold at high-end prices.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Kevin wrote:
What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools? My right angle drill
packed up 1 day inside the 1 year warrenty period, thank god. I took
it to the service agents who suggested that DeWalt were rubbish and I
would have been better off buying something else.

You took it to De Walt service - who make their living by fixing De Walt
products - and they suggested you buy something else?

Methinks this stinks somewhat.

Buy a PPPro from B&Q. No problems with a service centre there.

Took my PPPro 18V combi back after the 3rd unit I'd had in less than a year
packed up. Bought a dW 14.4 (non-combi). Feels much better built, though I
haven't thrashed it ... yet ;-)

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools?

Reasonable quality cheap tools, sold at high-end prices.

I've only got the SDS mains drill, and that's excellent quality at a
competitive price.

Other items may be different. There's no reason to stick to one maker,
unless you have a colour coordinated workshop.

--
*All men are idiots, and I married their King.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Kevin wrote:

What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools? My right angle drill
packed up 1 day inside the 1 year warrenty period, thank god. I took
it to the service agents who suggested that DeWalt were rubbish and I
would have been better off buying something else.

You took it to De Walt service - who make their living by fixing De Walt
products - and they suggested you buy something else?

Methinks this stinks somewhat.

Buy a PPPro from B&Q. No problems with a service centre there.

Took my PPPro 18V combi back after the 3rd unit I'd had in less than a
year
packed up. Bought a dW 14.4 (non-combi). Feels much better built, though I
haven't thrashed it ... yet ;-)

Just wait. Appalling price for what you pay and even the agents discredit
them.

"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message
. ..

Quick company recap (from memory)....

Atlas Copco are a very large industrial tool group - they do huge
compressors, mining tools, big pneumatic stuff, etc.

They're a group, and have a number of brands and operating companies, the
ones of interest to us are Milwaukee (predominantly USA), Atlas Copco &
AEG
Electric Tools.

They used to be mostly sold as Atlas Copco tools in the UK, D&M sell them
but don't now have the AC branded tools on their website
(www.dm-tools.co.uk), Milwaukee are there, though. The identical tools
were
sold as Milwaukee in the States, but it seems that in the last two years
they have launched the brand over here & they're to be seen cropping up on
the various DIY tv makeover programs now. AEG is their "trade" brand, ie
lighter duty than AC and Milwaukee.

The Wolf brand is owned by Atlas Copco, which has been re-launched.

I speak to the folks at dm relatively frequently (whenever I pop into the
shop) & a conversation I had with them ages ago revealed that they liked
the
tools because they had very few problems with returns on their mail-order
sales with them, & the tools seemed to be v. reliable.

I've got two of the tools & they're the kipper's tits (as I read somewhere
recently...) - a small 9.6v drill/driver (that came with a 13mm chuck &
actually has the torque to cope with it) and a 240v jigsaw - BSPE100XL or
something like that. I love 'em both. No nonsense, beautifully built,
accurate.

I really wish I'd bought the AC circular saw instead of the
slightly-cheaper
DW that I bought. Had to repair thatjust out of warranty - fan assembly
came adrift from the armature & would have been a £70 fix. JBWeld sorted
it
out though. (but the baseplate & saw accuracy is still pants).

As you can tell, I like them!

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 11 Aug 2004 05:06:47 -0700, (Kevin) wrote:

What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools? My right angle drill
packed up 1 day inside the 1 year warrenty period, thank god. I took
it to the service agents who suggested that DeWalt were rubbish and I
would have been better off buying something else.
For a drill to seriously overheat within a year of purchase seems to
suggest something amiss, especially as this was a right angle drill
and hardly got much use anyway.

Kevin

Generally I've had good results with their drills and screwdrivers,
not with a biscuit jointer which had a design fault.

Personally for drills I like my Makita rechargable angle and normal
drills. Then I have a large Bosch SDS which is pretty good.

BTW, don't be hoodwinked by warranty periods. They are a convenience
for the retailer and manufacturer only and sometimes used as a
marketing tool. If you have paid for a DeWalt or other branded
tool and used it as specified, then it is reasonable to push statutory
rights.

You jest of course. A one year guarantee packs up after 2 years and they
will totally disown you. A 3 year guarantee packs up after 2.5 years and
they either fix, replace or money back.

I wouldn't expect to pay for a repair for three years at
least and would push the point. Remember that if you are spending
north of £100, always use a credit card, then the card company is on
the hook as well.

If a power tool is about 4 years old and needs rep[air, a Makita or DeWalt
will be just as much as a new one. This begs the question whether it is
worth buying high priced tools at all, and using them only for DIY is
ludicrous.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:13:11 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On 11 Aug 2004 05:06:47 -0700, (Kevin) wrote:

What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools? My right angle drill
packed up 1 day inside the 1 year warrenty period, thank god. I took
it to the service agents who suggested that DeWalt were rubbish and I
would have been better off buying something else.
For a drill to seriously overheat within a year of purchase seems to
suggest something amiss, especially as this was a right angle drill
and hardly got much use anyway.

Kevin

Generally I've had good results with their drills and screwdrivers,
not with a biscuit jointer which had a design fault.

Personally for drills I like my Makita rechargable angle and normal
drills. Then I have a large Bosch SDS which is pretty good.

BTW, don't be hoodwinked by warranty periods. They are a convenience
for the retailer and manufacturer only and sometimes used as a
marketing tool. If you have paid for a DeWalt or other branded
tool and used it as specified, then it is reasonable to push statutory
rights.

You jest of course. A one year guarantee packs up after 2 years and they
will totally disown you. A 3 year guarantee packs up after 2.5 years and
they either fix, replace or money back.

I never jest about things like this.

I have successfully pursued issues like this with retailers by
pointing out to them the statutory situation and making it quite clear
that I will pursue them in the courts if I need to do so.
Shop assistants may not be aware of consumer legislation, but a branch
manager or owner of a business certainly will generally be.

I have never yet had to issue a summons with respect to a faulty power
tool, but have certainly made it clear that I do not mess about.

One of the main principles of consumer law is reasonableness, and for
that a comparison is made. If I were to buy a cheap tool costing
£50 when the average price across the market for the tool type is
£150, then I can't expect to get the same redress as I would have done
had I bought one costing £200. If I buy a professional product and
it fails with less use in comparison with all day, every day use, then
clearly there is a design or manufacturing defect. It gets replaced
or refunded. For this purpose, redress *can* be as much as 6
years. Obviously the balance tilts over time, but warranties are not
an alternative for statute as you seem to believe.

Typically I press for some level of compensation as well and usually
get it. However, to put a scale on this, the occasions are few and
far between, because to me the waste of time and effort is the most
important issue, not the purchase cost.




I wouldn't expect to pay for a repair for three years at
least and would push the point. Remember that if you are spending
north of £100, always use a credit card, then the card company is on
the hook as well.

If a power tool is about 4 years old and needs rep[air, a Makita or DeWalt
will be just as much as a new one.

This is not true in my experience.

This begs the question whether it is
worth buying high priced tools at all, and using them only for DIY is
ludicrous.

It doesn't at all. I look for good quality, well reviewed products
that are going to give good results and be pleasant to use as well as
the likelihood that I will not have trouble and that if I do there is
easy redress. With a good degree of consistency, that comes from
the major globally branded manufacturers. One pays extra for that
and I choose to do so. This does not necessarily mean buying the top
of the range item because the price differential to the second product
in that manufacturer's range may be a feature that I don't need rather
than a basic reduction in quality.

I don't buy into the notion that something that is "only for DIY" has
to be bought on low price and does not need to meet the criteria
above.

You may feel that your main criterion is one of low cost and that DIY
applications don't require anything more than cheap OEM tools from DIY
stores. Clearly others share your view because the stores seem to
do a good trade in them. I'm not going to lose sleep over that, but
it doesn't alter my view that DIY can equally equate to using top
quality tools, which in the right hands give outstanding results.
If that costs more, as far as I am concerned, so be it.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:13:11 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On 11 Aug 2004 05:06:47 -0700, (Kevin) wrote:

What are people'e opinions of De Walt tools? My right angle drill
packed up 1 day inside the 1 year warrenty period, thank god. I took
it to the service agents who suggested that DeWalt were rubbish and I
would have been better off buying something else.
For a drill to seriously overheat within a year of purchase seems to
suggest something amiss, especially as this was a right angle drill
and hardly got much use anyway.

Kevin

Generally I've had good results with their drills and screwdrivers,
not with a biscuit jointer which had a design fault.

Personally for drills I like my Makita rechargable angle and normal
drills. Then I have a large Bosch SDS which is pretty good.

BTW, don't be hoodwinked by warranty periods. They are a convenience
for the retailer and manufacturer only and sometimes used as a
marketing tool. If you have paid for a DeWalt or other branded
tool and used it as specified, then it is reasonable to push statutory
rights.

You jest of course. A one year guarantee
packs up after 2 years and they
will totally disown you. A 3 year guarantee
packs up after 2.5 years and
they either fix, replace or money back.

I never jest about things like this.

I have successfully pursued issues like
this with retailers by pointing out to them
the statutory situation and making it quite clear
that I will pursue them in the courts if I need to do so.

So each time something breaks down outside the guarantee you go to lawyer.
Please get in the real world. Imagine, we would have lawyers on every street
corner. "The kettle has packed up Dear". "OK I'll just pop across the
street to the lawyers to do some suing, be back in a jiff". ...2 hours
later...."Is the kettle fixed Dear, I'm gasping for a cuppa"? "No, not for
another 6 months as the lawyers is starting the court proceedings".

If a power tool is about 4 years old and needs
repair, a Makita or DeWalt repair
will be just as much as a new one.

This is not true in my experience.

Look at the current threads someone here ditched one because repair was so
expensive. I know guys who ditch Bosch tools because of the same. May as
well get a 3 year no quibble guarantee PP Pro.

This begs the question whether it is
worth buying high priced tools at all,
and using them only for DIY is
ludicrous.

It doesn't at all.

I does.

With a good degree of consistency, that comes from
the major globally branded manufacturers.

DeWalt is pants, to give one of your sarf Lahdan words. Many here say the
same thing, and that is a global brand. Kress is far better, yet costs less,
and is full pro, no PP stuff.

One pays extra for that
and I choose to do so.

You pay for their marketing and hype you mean. Many telecom companies
undercut BT, yet use BT lines. BT can't undercut them because they spend
billions on national advertising, the little boys don't, undercut and
provide the same service even on BT lines. Big name does not equal big
reliability.

"IMM" wrote in message
...
Many telecom companies
undercut BT, yet use BT lines. BT can't undercut them because

.... OFCOM won't let them !!!!!!!!!!!!!

They'd happily undercut them and put them all out of business tomorrow if
they were allowed to.



they spend
billions on national advertising, the little boys don't, undercut and
provide the same service even on BT lines. Big name does not equal big
reliability.

IMM wrote:

If a power tool is about 4 years old and needs rep[air, a Makita or DeWalt
will be just as much as a new one.


Nonsense. Parts prices are very reasonable.

--
Grunff

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:45:47 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




You jest of course. A one year guarantee
packs up after 2 years and they
will totally disown you. A 3 year guarantee
packs up after 2.5 years and
they either fix, replace or money back.

I never jest about things like this.

I have successfully pursued issues like
this with retailers by pointing out to them
the statutory situation and making it quite clear
that I will pursue them in the courts if I need to do so.

So each time something breaks down outside the guarantee you go to lawyer.
Please get in the real world. Imagine, we would have lawyers on every street
corner. "The kettle has packed up Dear". "OK I'll just pop across the
street to the lawyers to do some suing, be back in a jiff". ...2 hours
later...."Is the kettle fixed Dear, I'm gasping for a cuppa"? "No, not for
another 6 months as the lawyers is starting the court proceedings".

That isn't what I said at all. I don't require a lawyer to have a
friendly discussion with a retailer in which if need be I explain
about consumer legislation. I also would not require a lawyer if it
became necessary to take him to court.

In the case of power tools, I have only ever had to raise the issue
and make it clear that I am prepared to do just that if need be. The
process is quite simple.

However, by the use of good quality choices, the issue has very
seldom arisen at all.


If a power tool is about 4 years old and needs
repair, a Makita or DeWalt repair
will be just as much as a new one.

This is not true in my experience.

Look at the current threads someone here ditched one because repair was so
expensive. I know guys who ditch Bosch tools because of the same. May as
well get a 3 year no quibble guarantee PP Pro.

I would prefer not to have the issue. Having a quibble with PPPoo
stuff would be from the outset because the usability and quality of
many of the products is so poor. That's before anything breaks.



This begs the question whether it is
worth buying high priced tools at all,
and using them only for DIY is
ludicrous.

It doesn't at all.

I does.

You does what?


With a good degree of consistency, that comes from
the major globally branded manufacturers.

DeWalt is pants, to give one of your sarf Lahdan words. Many here say the
same thing, and that is a global brand. Kress is far better, yet costs less,
and is full pro, no PP stuff.

As I already said, I cherry pick products according to requirements
and check reviews carefully as well. The DeWalt routers are
consistently good and solid performers. I have one of their
screwdrivers that is also excellent. I ran into a design defect with
one of their biscuit jointers and the cost was refunded nearly two
years later.

DW has a good sliding mitre saw (DW708), but the Makita LS1013 is
smoother, so I have one of those.

I wouldn't give the Wickes OEM Kress stuff house room because it is
not even in the same league as these products.



One pays extra for that
and I choose to do so.

You pay for their marketing and hype you mean.

Nope. There is undoubtedly a cost in establishing and maintaining a
global brand, and I have no real problem if they do so. I select
purely on quality, service and ease of use. For example, I have a
Metabo random orbit sander. This is a well respected brand, but the
main reason is because this is an excellent sander which I can use all
day and not have tingling fingers at the end.

Many telecom companies
undercut BT, yet use BT lines. BT can't undercut them because they spend
billions on national advertising, the little boys don't, undercut and
provide the same service even on BT lines.

They really don't. I have been around the houses with some of
these operators, including some of the larger ones like NTL, who have
been hopeless.

I buy all of my telecoms services with one exception with business as
opposed to residential service levels. For the services required,
BT is really the only operator able to deliver what I need and has
demonstrated that.

Big name does not equal big
reliability.

True, but it is often the case and there is a well defined path to
take if there are problems.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:45:47 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




You jest of course. A one year guarantee
packs up after 2 years and they
will totally disown you. A 3 year guarantee
packs up after 2.5 years and
they either fix, replace or money back.

I never jest about things like this.

I have successfully pursued issues like
this with retailers by pointing out to them
the statutory situation and making it quite clear
that I will pursue them in the courts if I need to do so.

So each time something breaks down outside the guarantee you go to
lawyer.
Please get in the real world. Imagine, we would have lawyers on every
street
corner. "The kettle has packed up Dear". "OK I'll just pop across the
street to the lawyers to do some suing, be back in a jiff". ...2 hours
later...."Is the kettle fixed Dear, I'm gasping for a cuppa"? "No, not
for
another 6 months as the lawyers is starting the court proceedings".

That isn't what I said at all. I don't require a lawyer to have a
friendly discussion with a retailer in which if need be I explain
about consumer legislation. I also would not require a lawyer if it
became necessary to take him to court.

In the case of power tools, I have only ever had to raise the issue
and make it clear that I am prepared to do just that if need be. The
process is quite simple.

However, by the use of good quality choices, the issue has very
seldom arisen at all.


If a power tool is about 4 years old and needs
repair, a Makita or DeWalt repair
will be just as much as a new one.

This is not true in my experience.

Look at the current threads someone here ditched one because repair was
so
expensive. I know guys who ditch Bosch tools because of the same. May as

well get a 3 year no quibble guarantee PP Pro.

I would prefer not to have the issue. Having a quibble with PPPoo
stuff would be from the outset because the usability and quality of
many of the products is so poor. That's before anything breaks.



This begs the question whether it is
worth buying high priced tools at all,
and using them only for DIY is
ludicrous.

It doesn't at all.

I does.

You does what?


With a good degree of consistency, that comes from
the major globally branded manufacturers.

DeWalt is pants, to give one of your sarf Lahdan words. Many here say the
same thing, and that is a global brand. Kress is far better, yet costs
less,
and is full pro, no PP stuff.

As I already said, I cherry pick products according to requirements
and check reviews carefully as well. The DeWalt routers are
consistently good and solid performers. I have one of their
screwdrivers that is also excellent. I ran into a design defect with
one of their biscuit jointers and the cost was refunded nearly two
years later.

DW has a good sliding mitre saw (DW708), but the Makita LS1013 is
smoother, so I have one of those.

I wouldn't give the Wickes OEM Kress stuff house room because it is
not even in the same league as these products.

You know very little about power tools to come out with such a crass
statement.

One pays extra for that
and I choose to do so.

You pay for their marketing and hype you mean.

Nope.

Yep.

Many telecom companies
undercut BT, yet use BT lines. BT can't undercut them because they spend
billions on national advertising, the little boys don't, undercut and
provide the same service even on BT lines.

They really don't. I have been around the houses with some of
these operators, including some of the larger ones like NTL, who have
been hopeless.

It doesn't take much looking to find a Telecoms company totally undercutting
BT......and using their lines to.

I buy all of my telecoms services with one exception with business as
opposed to residential service levels. For the services required,
BT is really the only operator able to deliver what I need and has
demonstrated that.

I use BT lines, but anther company bills my calls at way under what BT can
offer.

Big name does not equal big
reliability.

True, but it is often the case

And often not the case as in DeWalt.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:09:51 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:45:47 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


As I already said, I cherry pick products according to requirements
and check reviews carefully as well. The DeWalt routers are
consistently good and solid performers. I have one of their
screwdrivers that is also excellent. I ran into a design defect with
one of their biscuit jointers and the cost was refunded nearly two
years later.

DW has a good sliding mitre saw (DW708), but the Makita LS1013 is
smoother, so I have one of those.

I wouldn't give the Wickes OEM Kress stuff house room because it is
not even in the same league as these products.

You know very little about power tools to come out with such a crass
statement.

Or even Kress statement.?

Following my purchasing policy, I get products that work well, are
comfortable to use and set up, produce good results and with which I
have little or no problems. I know that if repairs and spares are
needed, I can get them for a long time.

I have no motivation to go for OEM products sold in DIY stores.




Many telecom companies
undercut BT, yet use BT lines. BT can't undercut them because they spend
billions on national advertising, the little boys don't, undercut and
provide the same service even on BT lines.

They really don't. I have been around the houses with some of
these operators, including some of the larger ones like NTL, who have
been hopeless.

It doesn't take much looking to find a Telecoms company totally undercutting
BT......and using their lines to.

No it doesn't, but experience shows that you get what you pay for. I
am looking to buy primarily a level of service, not the cheapest deal.


I buy all of my telecoms services with one exception with business as
opposed to residential service levels. For the services required,
BT is really the only operator able to deliver what I need and has
demonstrated that.

I use BT lines, but anther company bills my calls at way under what BT can
offer.

Big name does not equal big
reliability.

True, but it is often the case

And often not the case as in DeWalt.

Yawn....


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

If a power tool is about 4 years old and needs rep[air, a Makita or
DeWalt
will be just as much as a new one.

Nonsense. Parts prices are very reasonable.

Nonsense. Read the threads here on this point. I also mention a tradesman I
know who is quoted £200 to repair a 4kg Bosch SDS drill when new it is
around £270. In the same catalogue a similar Hitachi is cheaper. I know
which brand I would buy.

The fact is, unless it is something simple, like a switch, having power
tools repaired is dodgy financially. They are "all" disposable items. May as
well go for PP Pro with the 3 yr no quibble guarantee, or Kress/Wickes for
more substantial models who have similar guarantees.

IMM wrote:

Nonsense. Read the threads here on this point. I also mention a tradesman I
know who is quoted £200 to repair a 4kg Bosch SDS drill when new it is
around £270. In the same catalogue a similar Hitachi is cheaper. I know
which brand I would buy.

The fact is, unless it is something simple, like a switch, having power
tools repaired is dodgy financially.

When I recently burnt out my DW566, one phone call got me a replacement
armature for £26 all inc., delivered to my door the following day.

Replacement was a matter of removing 8 screws, and took about 10 mins.
And that's without a manual/exploded diagram to look at. If I'd wanted
to look at a diagram, there is one on their website. But I didn't.

The armature is about the most difficult thing to replace, since it is
right at the centre of the tool.


They are "all" disposable items. May as
well go for PP Pro with the 3 yr no quibble guarantee, or Kress/Wickes for
more substantial models who have similar guarantees.

But then you have a crappy user experience in the meantime.


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

Nonsense. Read the threads here on this point. I also mention a
tradesman I
know who is quoted £200 to repair a 4kg Bosch SDS drill when new it is
around £270. In the same catalogue a similar Hitachi is cheaper. I know
which brand I would buy.

The fact is, unless it is something simple, like a switch, having power
tools repaired is dodgy financially.

When I recently burnt out my DW566, one phone call got me a replacement
armature for £26 all inc., delivered to my door the following day.

How much for the repair depot to do it? and how long do they keep it? Don't
say just a day as that rarely happens, unless they are slack.

Replacement was a matter of removing 8 screws, and took about 10 mins.
And that's without a manual/exploded diagram to look at. If I'd wanted
to look at a diagram, there is one on their website. But I didn't.

The armature is about the most difficult thing to replace, since it is
right at the centre of the tool.

They are "all" disposable items. May as
well go for PP Pro with the 3 yr no quibble guarantee, or Kress/Wickes
for
more substantial models who have similar guarantees.

But then you have a crappy user experience in the meantime.

Like yours as the armature keeps burning out. What a bum drill you picked
there.....and all that lolly too.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:09:51 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:45:47 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


As I already said, I cherry pick products according to requirements
and check reviews carefully as well. The DeWalt routers are
consistently good and solid performers. I have one of their
screwdrivers that is also excellent. I ran into a design defect with
one of their biscuit jointers and the cost was refunded nearly two
years later.

DW has a good sliding mitre saw (DW708), but the Makita LS1013 is
smoother, so I have one of those.

I wouldn't give the Wickes OEM Kress stuff house room because it is
not even in the same league as these products.

You know very little about power tools to come out with such a crass
statement.

Or even Kress statement.?

Following my purchasing policy,

Which is flawed.

I get products that work well, are
comfortable to use and set up, produce good results and with which I
have little or no problems. I know that if repairs and spares are
needed, I can get them for a long time.

You need to read the threads more.

I have no motivation to go for OEM products sold in DIY stores.

Many telecom companies
undercut BT, yet use BT lines. BT can't undercut them because they
spend
billions on national advertising, the little boys don't, undercut and
provide the same service even on BT lines.

They really don't. I have been around the houses with some of
these operators, including some of the larger ones like NTL, who have
been hopeless.

It doesn't take much looking to find a Telecoms company totally
undercutting
BT......and using their lines to.

No it doesn't, but experience
shows that you get what you pay for. I
am looking to buy primarily a level of service,
not the cheapest deal.

You the THE BT lines!!!!!!! The companies just bill you the calls at much
lower rates than BT. The service is there because you pay BT for the line.

I buy all of my telecoms services with one exception with business as
opposed to residential service levels. For the services required,
BT is really the only operator able to deliver what I need and has
demonstrated that.

I use BT lines, but anther company
bills my calls at way under what BT can
offer.

Big name does not equal big
reliability.

True, but it is often the case

And often not the case as in DeWalt.

Yawn....

DeWalt makes me go to sleep as well.

IMM wrote:

How much for the repair depot to do it? and how long do they keep it? Don't
say just a day as that rarely happens, unless they are slack.

I don't know. Anyone incapable to undoing 8 screws to replace an
armature really shouldn't be using an SDS anyway.


Like yours as the armature keeps burning out. What a bum drill you picked
there.....and all that lolly too.

Burnt out once in over two years, because I made a mistake. As for cost,
the machine was only £120. Very good value.

--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

How much for the repair depot to do it? and how long do they keep it?
Don't
say just a day as that rarely happens, unless they are slack.

I don't know. Anyone incapable to undoing 8 screws to replace an
armature really shouldn't be using an SDS anyway.


Like yours as the armature keeps burning out. What a bum drill you
picked
there.....and all that lolly too.

Burnt out once in over two years, because I made a mistake.

What did you do? Use it under water?

As for cost, the machine was only £120. Very good value.

me thinks not.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:12:30 +0100, "IMM" wrote:




You know very little about power tools to come out with such a crass
statement.

Or even Kress statement.?

Following my purchasing policy,

Which is flawed.

For me it works excellently. Your mileage may vary.


I get products that work well, are
comfortable to use and set up, produce good results and with which I
have little or no problems. I know that if repairs and spares are
needed, I can get them for a long time.

You need to read the threads more.

This is one source of information, but by no means the only one.




You the THE BT lines!!!!!!! The companies just bill you the calls at much
lower rates than BT. The service is there because you pay BT for the line.

On international calls they introduce large amounts of compression to
squeeze more calls into a given bandwidth. The audio quality drops
to being unintelligible on occasions, so I don't use these services.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

IMM wrote:

What did you do? Use it under water?

I held it with my leather-gloved hand completely blocking the vent
slots, whicle constantly chiseling for half an hour. I failed to smell
the burning because I was wearing an activated carbon mask. First thing
I knew was when it just stopped working. Upon removing the mask, the
stench was incredible - must have been burning for quite some time.


As for cost, the machine was only £120. Very good value.


me thinks not.

Only £20-£30 more than your Kress.

--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

What did you do? Use it under water?

I held it with my leather-gloved hand completely blocking the vent
slots, whicle constantly chiseling for half an hour. I failed to smell
the burning because I was wearing an activated carbon mask. First thing
I knew was when it just stopped working. Upon removing the mask, the
stench was incredible - must have been burning for quite some time.

This is a good example why DIYers should not buy expensive tools. It was
clear this man did not know how to use the tool, which could have caused a
fire, and when this occurs an expensive tool can disappear. DIYers should
sue cheap tolls, so when they screw up not so much is lost.

As for cost, the machine was only £120. Very good value.

me thinks not.

Only £20-£30 more than your Kress.

Which is better quality.