http://www.talktechdaily.com/new-pho...HktY2FibGUtc2M

Where have you been for the last couple of months? Underwater?
Brian

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"harry" wrote in message
...
http://www.talktechdaily.com/new-pho...HktY2FibGUtc2M

Or to put it another way, this is so old news that I'm really surprised to
see this kind of article.
In fact land lines are not going but they are being integrated with the
internet so effectively all landlines will be based on voip. I am hearing
from suppliers that there will be a big sell soon for cheap internet at a
basic speed at the same cost as the lndline and it will include the voip as
well.

I did actually try voip a few years ago from Vonage, but it was unreliable
if using a tone dialling audio dialer I used.

Brian

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"harry" wrote in message
...
http://www.talktechdaily.com/new-pho...HktY2FibGUtc2M

On 02/08/2018 06:49, harry wrote:
http://www.talktechdaily.com/new-pho...HktY2FibGUtc2M


We use VOIP and don't tell anyone are true landline number. When we had
a power cut the VOIP/DECT base station and the router stopped working. I
was surprised to then get a call on the wired landline phone. Calls to
that are normally just nuisance calls but it turned out to be the
electrical power supplier (not who I pay) telling me the cause of the
power cut and when it might be fixed. Interesting that they knew the
number to call.

--
Michael Chare

Brian Gaff wrote

Where have you been for the last couple of months?

For more than a decade in fact.

Underwater?

Head up his arse, as always.

harry wrote

http://www.talktechdaily.com/new-pho...HktY2FibGUtc2M

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 19:14:39 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:

Where have you been for the last couple of months?

For more than a decade in fact.

You are talking about yourself, senile cretin!

Underwater?

Head up his arse, as always.

You are CLEARLY talking about yourself, Rot!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

In message ,
harry writes
http://www.talktechdaily.com/new-pho...66&h=57&ia=pho
ne34-1&t202kw=ta-ph-d057&c1=mediaforce-belfasttelegraph&c4=CjBhZjJhOGE1M
i1iNWMyLTQ1ZjgtYmM4ZC1lOWMyN2JjOTAwOTctdHVjdDI0Zj dmMDcSFmNvbnN1bWVyZGFpb
HktY2FibGUtc2M

What am I missing that must be blindingly obvious to everyone else?
Surely most customers, at least domestic and small business, will
require a landline for Internet connection, so how does using VoIP
replace a landline? Perhaps the suggestion is we should do *all* our
connecting via mobiles?

--
Graeme

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , harry
writes
http://www.talktechdaily.com/new-pho...66&h=57&ia=pho
ne34-1&t202kw=ta-ph-d057&c1=mediaforce-belfasttelegraph&c4=CjBhZjJhOGE1M
i1iNWMyLTQ1ZjgtYmM4ZC1lOWMyN2JjOTAwOTctdHVjdDI0Z jdmMDcSFmNvbnN1bWVyZGFpb
HktY2FibGUtc2M

What am I missing that must be blindingly obvious to everyone else?

Everything, as always |-(

Surely most customers, at least domestic and small business, will require
a landline for Internet connection,

Nope, there have been internet connections without a landline
service for a long time now, often called a naked service.

And our VDSL2 service doesn't even allow a landline at all, basically
because doing it that way gets better modem synch rates.

so how does using VoIP replace a landline? Perhaps the suggestion is we
should do *all* our connecting via mobiles?

That's and entirely separate issue. And yes, not what we have
unlimited calls and texts to any landline or mobile in the country
for just $10 per month and 1GB of data, I don't even use the
two voip services I have over the broadband service anymore.

On 02/08/2018 11:16, Graeme wrote:
In message ,
harry writes
http://www.talktechdaily.com/new-pho...66&h=57&ia=pho
ne34-1&t202kw=ta-ph-d057&c1=mediaforce-belfasttelegraph&c4=CjBhZjJhOGE1M
i1iNWMyLTQ1ZjgtYmM4ZC1lOWMyN2JjOTAwOTctdHVjdDI0Zjd mMDcSFmNvbnN1bWVyZGFpb
HktY2FibGUtc2M

What am I missing that must be blindingly obvious to everyone else?
Surely most customers, at least domestic and small business, will
require a landline for Internet connection, so how does using VoIP
replace a landline?

It does not replace the landline as such, but it does get rid of POTS,
and the analogue bit of the local loop connection to the exchange or
street cabinet. So the landline becomes data only, with on premises
equipment to interface the customer wiring and equipment to the digital
service.

Perhaps the suggestion is we should do *all* our
connecting via mobiles?

No, while its a option that will suit some, it would not be a good use
of the limited mobile spectrum to unnecessarily shift lots of traffic
currently flowing over wires into it.

However you can see a point where the network becomes fully fibre, and
the connection to the property is fibre as well (i.e. FTTP). Then there
would be no facility for traditional analogue voice.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , Jethro_uk
writes
On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 11:16:58 +0100, Graeme wrote:

What am I missing that must be blindingly obvious to everyone else?
Surely most customers, at least domestic and small business, will
require a landline for Internet connection,

We have Virgin fibre, and no landline.

Well, yes, but that is still a landline, whether it is copper, fibre or
whatever. Presumably you have to pay for the fibre to be there, whether
or not you make phone calls or access the Internet.

--
Graeme

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 02/08/2018 11:16, Graeme wrote:

Surely most customers, at least domestic and small business, will
require a landline for Internet connection, so how does using VoIP
replace a landline?

It does not replace the landline as such, but it does get rid of POTS,
and the analogue bit of the local loop connection to the exchange or
street cabinet.

Again, I must be missing something, because surely, to the average
domestic or smaller business customer, a landline is a landline,
whatever type of phone or Internet connection is used, and whatever the
material of the physical connection.

The article Harry linked begins :

'If you're paying for a landline in the UK, your bill may very well
skyrocket soon. There is a solution €“ it's replacing landlines and
much more reliable than cell phones.'

which says replace the landline - with what? The only real options are
a fixed physical fibre or copper connection (a landline), a mobile
service, satellite or piggybacking a neighbour's wi-fi.

The article is disingenuous at best, showing a VoIP box with a phone on
one side and router on the other, but no mention of how or where the
router is connected. Presumably the article author thinks that only a
traditional copper connection is a landline, which I would dispute.

--
Graeme

Graeme wrote:
The article is disingenuous at best, showing a VoIP box with a phone on
one side and router on the other, but no mention of how or where the
router is connected. Presumably the article author thinks that only a
traditional copper connection is a landline, which I would dispute.

The site is advertising VOIP providers, so it's not terribly surprising
they're plugging them as 'one neat trick' landline providers 'don't want you
to know about'.

However there is an element of truth in that POTS phone call costs have
entered something of a death spiral. From September, if you're calling out
of bundle on BT, for instance, it's a 23p call setup fee and 15p/minute.
If you want to avoid these with a monthly bundle, it's £9.99 on top of line
rental.

A VOIP provider's fee of say 2p/min with no setup fee is way more sane by
comparison. (for the record, wholesale for calling 01/02/03 is about
0.1p/min). As more people who actually make phone calls flee to VOIP
providers, BT is left trying to squeeze less and less out of their remaining
POTS customers.

Theo

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 20:29:32 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:

What am I missing that must be blindingly obvious to everyone else?

Everything, as always |-(

YOU keep missing the most important, senile Rot: that everyone, but
everyone, considers you a sick and obnoxious senile TROLL!

--
Cursitor Doom about Rot Speed:
"The man is a conspicuous and unashamed ignoramus."
MID:

On 02/08/2018 13:05, Graeme wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 02/08/2018 11:16, Graeme wrote:

Surely most customers, at least domestic and small business, will
require a landline for Internet connection, so how does using VoIP
replace a landline?

It does not replace the landline as such, but it does get rid of POTS,
and the analogue bit of the local loop connection to the exchange or
street cabinet.

Again, I must be missing something, because surely, to the average
domestic or smaller business customer, a landline is a landline,
whatever type of phone or Internet connection is used, and whatever the
material of the physical connection.

The article Harry linked begins :

Ah, yup there is your problem - its safest to assume that any link harry
posts will either be as full of crap as he is, or more typically,
unrelated or contradictory to the point he is trying to make. ;-)

'If you're paying for a landline in the UK, your bill may very well
skyrocket soon. There is a solution €“ it's replacing landlines and much more reliable than cell phones.'

which says replace the landline - with what?Â* The only real options are
a fixed physical fibre or copper connection (a landline), a mobile
service, satellite or piggybacking a neighbour's wi-fi.

Its just a very poor quality article being sloppy with terminology. Its
conflating "landline" with telephone service. Its reads like it was a
puff piece written by a VoIP provider.

The article is disingenuous at best, showing a VoIP box with a phone on
one side and router on the other, but no mention of how or where the
router is connected.Â* Presumably the article author thinks that only a
traditional copper connection is a landline, which I would dispute.

Indeed.

You may find that you can buy a "phone" line for broadband only, and not
have a POTS service on top, or a PSTN number allocated to the line, but
it will still be a landline, just not useable as a phone line. Hence if
you want a phone service over it, then VoIP will be the way to do it.

The other thing to keep in mind, is that for local and national UK calls
many of the VoIP services are often no cheaper than many of the bundled
call packages you can have with your POTS service. I maintain a PAYG SIP
account for placing VoIP calls - it gets used rarely when either I need
a third line, or more commonly when I have a line fault and no voice
comms, but at least one of the broadband lines is still limping on.
However cost wise its per min charging makes it more expensive than the
bundled deal of calls on the normal line - even if its notionally
cheaper than the per minute pricing outside of the bundle.

VoIP can be much cheaper for international calls. Companies like Delmont
(and their vast army of white labelled resellers) do lots of very cheap
international deals - although the quality can be a bit suspect at times
IMLE.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

http://www.talktechdaily.com/new-pho...HktY2FibGUtc2M


I just realised I got my first VoIP device in 2006, so it has been ten
years since my landline has been used to make an outgoing call.

So while I agree with the content in the link, like all the links you
offer, it's a bit random and not at all authoritative, and the links
to the all-important "UK providers" at the foot of the page don't
connect to anything intelligible.

The two providers a mainly recommend to people aren't UK based anyway,
they are based in Luxemburg and Germany.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 02/08/2018 12:49, Graeme wrote:
In message , Jethro_uk
writes
On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 11:16:58 +0100, Graeme wrote:

What am I missing that must be blindingly obvious to everyone else?
Surely most customers, at least domestic and small business, will
require a landline for Internet connection,

We have Virgin fibre, and no landline.

Well, yes, but that is still a landline, whether it is copper, fibre or
whatever.Â* Presumably you have to pay for the fibre to be there, whether
or not you make phone calls or access the Internet.


I have a non BT fibre connection to my house. I only have to pay for it
because I use it. The term landline generally refers to a
copper/aluminium line from your house to a BT exchange.

--
Michael Chare

On 02/08/2018 11:29, Rod Speed wrote:

And our VDSL2 service doesn't even allow a landline at all, basically
because doing it that way gets better modem synch rates.


Who supplies that service AAISP?

No phone calls in a power cut then!


--
Michael Chare

On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 11:16:58 +0100, Graeme wrote:

In message ,
harry writes
http://www.talktechdaily.com/new-pho...66&h=57&ia=pho
ne34-1&t202kw=ta-ph-d057&c1=mediaforce-belfasttelegraph&c4=CjBhZjJhOGE1M
i1iNWMyLTQ1ZjgtYmM4ZC1lOWMyN2JjOTAwOTctdHVjdDI0Z jdmMDcSFmNvbnN1bWVyZGFpb
HktY2FibGUtc2M

What am I missing that must be blindingly obvious to everyone else?
Surely most customers, at least domestic and small business, will
require a landline for Internet connection, so how does using VoIP
replace a landline? Perhaps the suggestion is we should do *all* our
connecting via mobiles?

1) It is often cheaper. Landline charges (particularly BT) are high, even
with an 'evenings and weekends' contract.
2) Multiple calls can be made at the same time if you have a multi-port
ATA. Useful in a household of more than one.
3) The phone isn't 'engaged' unless all phones are in use.




--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Thursday, 2 August 2018 10:00:44 UTC+1, Michael Chare wrote:
On 02/08/2018 06:49, harry wrote:
http://www.talktechdaily.com/new-pho...HktY2FibGUtc2M


We use VOIP and don't tell anyone are true landline number. When we had
a power cut the VOIP/DECT base station and the router stopped working.

We have that systen here, we have an emergency phone in the lab which goes down anytime the network does, if fact it;s down now no idea why.
I have another VOIP phone in my 'office', it;s very low volume and I can;t always here what's said but I've been told they are better than our previous system so I have to believe it.

On 02/08/2018 16:05, Michael Chare wrote:
On 02/08/2018 11:29, Rod Speed wrote:

And our VDSL2 service doesn't even allow a landline at all, basically
because doing it that way gets better modem synch rates.


Who supplies that service AAISP?

No phone calls in a power cut then!

That has always been the big one and I understood that the need to make
calls in an emergency was the reason that they weren't allowed to switch
landlines to pure fibre years ago.

Assuming that both the VOIP phone and router need to be powered to make
calls, how are they getting around this? Especially when a severe
weather event could take power out to isolated houses or whole villages
for days, in conditions where the residents can't travel to get help.

A backup mobile isn't the answer either, because many elderly people
would make so few calls on it that it would get disconnected, it may
well be flat and many of the mobile base stations have no backup power
themselves anyway!

I did think that it would make sense to start moving to fttp and voip
over time, but with the fibre being bundled with copper. The copper
could be used purely to provide emergency power (perhaps with a very low
drain, automatic switching, router purely for phone calls during power
cuts) or the copper could still provide a backup analogue connection -
quality of line being less important.

SteveW

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , Jethro_uk
writes
On Thu, 02 Aug 2018 11:16:58 +0100, Graeme wrote:

What am I missing that must be blindingly obvious to everyone else?
Surely most customers, at least domestic and small business, will
require a landline for Internet connection,

We have Virgin fibre, and no landline.

Well, yes, but that is still a landline, whether it is copper, fibre or
whatever.

No there isnt. There is just a data service with voip over
that with fibre and that voice service is entirely optional.

Presumably you have to pay for the fibre to be there, whether or not you
make phone calls or access the Internet.

Yes, but there doesn't have to be any voice service on it
if for example you prefer to use your mobile for all calls.

Steve Walker wrote:
Assuming that both the VOIP phone and router need to be powered to make
calls, how are they getting around this? Especially when a severe
weather event could take power out to isolated houses or whole villages
for days, in conditions where the residents can't travel to get help.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultatio...ions-power-cut
summary
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/...gency-services

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , John Rumm
writes
On 02/08/2018 11:16, Graeme wrote:

Surely most customers, at least domestic and small business, will require
a landline for Internet connection, so how does using VoIP replace a
landline?

It does not replace the landline as such, but it does get rid of POTS, and
the analogue bit of the local loop connection to the exchange or street
cabinet.

Again, I must be missing something, because surely, to the average
domestic or smaller business customer, a landline is a landline, whatever
type of phone or Internet connection is used, and whatever the material of
the physical connection.

The article Harry linked begins :

'If you're paying for a landline in the UK, your bill may very well
skyrocket soon. There is a solution €“ it's replacing landlines and much
more reliable than cell phones.'

which says replace the landline - with what?

Voip over the data service.

The only real options are a fixed physical fibre or copper connection (a
landline), a mobile service, satellite or piggybacking a neighbour's
wi-fi.

Yes, but only the copper connection is a landline.

You're mixing the terms voice service and landline.

And our vdsl2 service over a copper connection
doesnt have a pots/pstn service over the copper,
the voice service, if you want one is done by voip
over the data service.

The article is disingenuous at best, showing a VoIP box with a phone on
one side and router on the other, but no mention of how or where the
router is connected.

Its not relevant. Thats not disingenuous, you dont
understand the normal use of the word landline.
It doesnt mean any physical connection.

Presumably the article author thinks that only a traditional copper
connection is a landline,

He'd be right about that.

which I would dispute.

And you'd be wrong when you do. The term landline
refers to what you get your voice call service over.
You dont have to have any voice service at all if
you dont want one and prefer to use your mobile
for voice calls.

And to really scramble your brain, when I still had
a adsl2+ service, I did have a landline because it
was not possible to have what we call a naked service,
no landline, just the data service, on my exchange.

I only used the landline for incoming voice calls
and made outgoing calls using the voip service
over the adsl2+ service, because those calls were
cheaper that way, even with local calls.

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 05:36:54 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile drivel

Just keep your geriatric stench out of this group, senile Rot!

--
dennis@home to know-it-all Rot Speed:
"You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about."
Message-ID:

"Theo" wrote in message
...
Graeme wrote:
The article is disingenuous at best, showing a VoIP box with a phone on
one side and router on the other, but no mention of how or where the
router is connected. Presumably the article author thinks that only a
traditional copper connection is a landline, which I would dispute.

The site is advertising VOIP providers, so it's not terribly surprising
they're plugging them as 'one neat trick' landline providers 'don't want
you
to know about'.

However there is an element of truth in that POTS phone call costs have
entered something of a death spiral. From September, if you're calling
out
of bundle on BT, for instance, it's a 23p call setup fee and 15p/minute.
If you want to avoid these with a monthly bundle, it's £9.99 on top of
line
rental.

A VOIP provider's fee of say 2p/min with no setup fee is way more sane by
comparison.

Mine, that I no longer use, is 10c per call, no time factor, to any
landline in the country. Calls to mobiles are 15c/min. No monthly fee.

(for the record, wholesale for calling 01/02/03 is about 0.1p/min).
As more people who actually make phone calls flee to VOIP providers,
BT is left trying to squeeze less and less out of their remaining
POTS customers.

Michael Chare wrote
Rod Speed wrote

And our VDSL2 service doesn't even allow a landline at all, basically
because doing it that way gets better modem synch rates.

Who supplies that service AAISP?

NBNco. This is in Australia.

No phone calls in a power cut then!

The nodes, what you lot call the cabinet, does have a
backup battery in it and fiber optic back to the rest of
the network so if you have your router on a UPS you
can still make phone calls until the UPS runs out.

Almost everyone has a mobile and our mobile bases
all have battery backup so in practice most use that
if they need to make a call during a power cut.

While I do have two voip services over my vdsl2 service,
I dont ever use them. I make and receive all calls on my
mobile now because the mobile works much better than
the two panasonic cordless phones I have on the voip
services and its more convenient to have all the contacts
and past calls on the one device. And that obviously works
just as well when out of the house too. And its much cheaper
at $10 per month for calls and texts to any landline or mobile
in the country and 1GB of data which is plenty in the car etc.

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 06:12:21 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:


A VOIP provider's fee of say 2p/min with no setup fee is way more sane by
comparison.

Mine, that I no longer use, is 10c per call, no time factor, to any
landline in the country. Calls to mobiles are 15c/min. No monthly fee.

Is that Euro cents or Ozzie cents or UK pennies, Ozzietard? And which
country? The UK or Ozzieland? If it's Oz, what the **** has that got to do
with uk.d-i-y, you geriatric asshole? tsk

--
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp about senile cretin Rot Speed:
"Thick pillock!"
MID:

On 02/08/2018 20:22, Theo wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:
Assuming that both the VOIP phone and router need to be powered to make
calls, how are they getting around this? Especially when a severe
weather event could take power out to isolated houses or whole villages
for days, in conditions where the residents can't travel to get help.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultatio...ions-power-cut
summary
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/...gency-services


They seem to be proposing 1 hour backup, but only for those with
pre-exisiting risk due to health problems. That won't be of much use to
someone with a health problem who wakes up one morning and finds that
the power went off 5 hours ago; or for the able bodied who similarly
find that power has been off for some time and they are isolated due to
deep snow - as happened to many people recently!

SteveW

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
news
On 02/08/2018 16:05, Michael Chare wrote:
On 02/08/2018 11:29, Rod Speed wrote:

And our VDSL2 service doesn't even allow a landline at all, basically
because doing it that way gets better modem synch rates.


Who supplies that service AAISP?

No phone calls in a power cut then!

That has always been the big one and I understood that the need to make
calls in an emergency was the reason that they weren't allowed to switch
landlines to pure fibre years ago.

Assuming that both the VOIP phone and router need to be powered to make
calls, how are they getting around this?

Our FTTP service has a backup battery in the router and you
can plug a non powered handset into that router if you want.

Especially when a severe weather event could take power out to isolated
houses or whole villages for days, in conditions where the residents can't
travel to get help.

But the mobiles will work for a while in that situation.

A backup mobile isn't the answer either,

Corse it is.

because many elderly people would make so few calls on it that it would
get disconnected,

Trivial to mandate that those can't be disconnected.

And there is no automatic disconnect with the
mobile service aldi provides here. You just have
to top it up once a year for peanuts. You dont
have to make any calls at all. $5 a year in fact.

it may well be flat

Trivial to leave it on the charger all the
time like you do with a cordless phone.

and many of the mobile base stations have no backup power themselves
anyway!

The obvious fix for that is to fix that.

I did think that it would make sense to start moving to fttp and voip over
time, but with the fibre being bundled with copper. The copper could be
used purely to provide emergency power (perhaps with a very low drain,
automatic switching, router purely for phone calls during power cuts)

Stupid to maintain the entire copper network back to
the exchanges just for the very rare emergency calls
on a wide area power cut. Makes a lot more sense
to add backup batterys to the mobile bases instead
or include a backup battery in the fibre modem.

or the copper could still provide a backup analogue connection - quality
of line being less important.

We are scrapping the entire copper system
back to the exchanges, and the exchanges
too. And already have backup batterys in
all the mobile bases.

Thats the only sensible approach.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
news
On 02/08/2018 20:22, Theo wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:
Assuming that both the VOIP phone and router need to be powered to make
calls, how are they getting around this? Especially when a severe
weather event could take power out to isolated houses or whole villages
for days, in conditions where the residents can't travel to get help.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultatio...ions-power-cut
summary
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/...gency-services


They seem to be proposing 1 hour backup, but only for those with
pre-exisiting risk due to health problems. That won't be of much use to
someone with a health problem who wakes up one morning and finds that the
power went off 5 hours ago; or for the able bodied who similarly find that
power has been off for some time and they are isolated due to deep snow -
as happened to many people recently!

Sure, but the later dont need to call anyone because
there is nothing anyone can do about that. And if they
just need to call their work to say that they wont be
in today, they can use their mobile to do that.

On 02/08/2018 23:25, Rod Speed wrote:


"Steve Walker" wrote in message
news
On 02/08/2018 20:22, Theo wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:
Assuming that both the VOIP phone and router need to be powered to make
calls, how are they getting around this? Especially when a severe
weather event could take power out to isolated houses or whole villages
for days, in conditions where the residents can't travel to get help.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultatio...ions-power-cut

summary
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/...gency-services



They seem to be proposing 1 hour backup, but only for those with
pre-exisiting risk due to health problems. That won't be of much use
to someone with a health problem who wakes up one morning and finds
that the power went off 5 hours ago; or for the able bodied who
similarly find that power has been off for some time and they are
isolated due to deep snow - as happened to many people recently!

Sure, but the later dont need to call anyone because
there is nothing anyone can do about that.

It was bad enough that army helicopters were dropping supplies - that's
not going to happen if no-one knows that they are stuck there without
power and quite possibly without heating because of it.

SteveW

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 06:52:14 +1000, cantankerous senile geezer Rot Speed
blabbered, again:


And our VDSL2 service doesn't even allow a landline at all, basically
because doing it that way gets better modem synch rates.

Who supplies that service AAISP?

NBNco. This is in Australia.

So the Ozzies in the Australian ngs are fed up with your senile bull****,
Rot?

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
news
On 02/08/2018 23:25, Rod Speed wrote:


"Steve Walker" wrote in message
news
On 02/08/2018 20:22, Theo wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:
Assuming that both the VOIP phone and router need to be powered to
make
calls, how are they getting around this? Especially when a severe
weather event could take power out to isolated houses or whole
villages
for days, in conditions where the residents can't travel to get help.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultatio...ions-power-cut
summary
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/...gency-services


They seem to be proposing 1 hour backup, but only for those with
pre-exisiting risk due to health problems. That won't be of much use to
someone with a health problem who wakes up one morning and finds that
the power went off 5 hours ago; or for the able bodied who similarly
find that power has been off for some time and they are isolated due to
deep snow - as happened to many people recently!

Sure, but the later dont need to call anyone because
there is nothing anyone can do about that.

It was bad enough that army helicopters were dropping supplies -

So those they dropped the supplys to could
obviously communicate the need for those.

that's not going to happen if no-one knows that they are stuck there
without power

If you're in that situation, you obviously need a mobile

and quite possibly without heating because of it.

In that case you can obviously get real radical and
go to bed if its cold enough to be a health problem.

On Thursday, 2 August 2018 23:34:52 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 02/08/2018 23:25, Rod Speed wrote:


"Steve Walker" wrote in message
news
On 02/08/2018 20:22, Theo wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:
Assuming that both the VOIP phone and router need to be powered to make
calls, how are they getting around this? Especially when a severe
weather event could take power out to isolated houses or whole villages
for days, in conditions where the residents can't travel to get help..

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultatio...ions-power-cut

summary
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/...gency-services



They seem to be proposing 1 hour backup, but only for those with
pre-exisiting risk due to health problems. That won't be of much use
to someone with a health problem who wakes up one morning and finds
that the power went off 5 hours ago; or for the able bodied who
similarly find that power has been off for some time and they are
isolated due to deep snow - as happened to many people recently!

Sure, but the later dont need to call anyone because
there is nothing anyone can do about that.

It was bad enough that army helicopters were dropping supplies - that's
not going to happen if no-one knows that they are stuck there without
power and quite possibly without heating because of it.

SteveW

Sensible people in remote locations have provision to be without power, telephone and road access.
Not rocket science.

In message , Rod Speed
writes
"Graeme" wrote in message news:eWpXIFK5NvYbFw

The article is disingenuous at best, showing a VoIP box with a phone
on one side and router on the other, but no mention of how or where
the router is connected.

Its not relevant. Thats not disingenuous, you dont
understand the normal use of the word landline.
It doesnt mean any physical connection.

OK, I accept that landline refers to a copper connection, but to the man
in the street, the landline is the physical connection, whether copper,
fibre or whatever. The connection in my previous house was NTL cable,
but still referred to as the landline.

Even Wikipedia refers to NTL/Virgin as providing 'television, internet,
landline phone and mobile phone services'. Note, landline as in not
mobile.

I'm not arguing about the pros and cons of any service, just the
implications of the article, which suggests you can save money by not
having a landline but the truth is, if you don't have a copper landline,
you need something else. Fibre, whatever. It is the cost of calls
using VoIP that save meaningful money, not the connection itself.


--
Graeme

In message , John
Rumm writes

VoIP can be much cheaper for international calls. Companies like
Delmont (and their vast army of white labelled resellers) do lots of
very cheap international deals - although the quality can be a bit
suspect at times IMLE.

I'm certainly not arguing about the use of VoIP - we used Skype when
first introduced, years ago, because at the time we were in UK and MiL
lived in Cyprus. Wife spoke to her weekly via Skype, using a simple
headset with mic plugged into a desktop, and it worked very well.
--
Graeme

Graeme wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Graeme wrote

The article is disingenuous at best, showing a VoIP box with a phone on
one side and router on the other, but no mention of how or where the
router is connected.

Its not relevant. Thats not disingenuous, you dont
understand the normal use of the word landline.
It doesnt mean any physical connection.

OK, I accept that landline refers to a copper connection,

Not always. The voice service that comes with a paytv
service over coax cable is also called a landline.

but to the man in the street, the landline is the physical connection,
whether copper, fibre or whatever.

But if they have a broadband service over a physical
connection, and no phone service at all, and use their
mobile for voice calls and texts, they wouldnt say that
they have a landline service. And plenty dont bother
with a landline anymore because they find it more
convenient to use their mobile for all calls and texts
and in many jurisdictions thats much cheaper than
a landline now. In my case its $10/month for unlimited
calls and texts to any landline or mobile in the country
and 1GB of data. It would cost me a minimum of $35
a month for a pots/pstn landline over copper if I could
still get one and that doesnt include any calls at all.

The connection in my previous house was NTL cable, but still referred to
as the landline.

Only if a voice service is provided. Not if its only a data and TV service.

Even Wikipedia refers to NTL/Virgin as providing 'television, internet,
landline phone and mobile phone services'.

Thats just saying they provide all those services.

Note, landline as in not mobile.

Because they do provide a landline service if you want one
because they mostly do provide a copper pair if you want one.

I'm not arguing about the pros and cons of any service, just the
implications of the article, which suggests you can save money by not
having a landline but the truth is, if you don't have a copper landline,
you need something else. Fibre, whatever.

But if you are happy with just an internet service, you dont have
to pay for a landline and can do voip over the internet service.

With my vdsl2 service, I get a voip service for free but it only
includes unlimited calls to landlines in the country, not to
mobiles. And I dont bother to use it except for incoming
calls to my old landline number, because now I prefer to
use my mobile for everything because it works a lot
better than the pansonic cordless phones I have on my
two voip services and its much more convenient to have
all the contacts on the one device and the call history too.

It is the cost of calls using VoIP that save meaningful money, not the
connection itself.

Thats not true either. Even when the voip service has a
fixed monthly fee, thats much cheaper than the landline
fixed monthly fee. And both my voip services have no
fixed monthly fee. I only pay for calls made, and only
when those calls are to a mobile with one of them.

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 22:30:30 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

It was bad enough that army helicopters were dropping supplies -
that's
not going to happen if no-one knows that they are stuck there
without
power and quite possibly without heating because of it.

Hopefully one of the things that will come out locally is some form
of "register" (probably have to be voluntary to be on it) of who
lives where and maybe if they have any "special needs". On about day
3 I was out clearing snow and a mountain rescue Land Rover pulled up
to enquire if we needed anything, we didn't.

They had a 1:25000 map and where basically just trying to reach
anything that looked as if it might be occupied. They where not local
so hadn't a clue which properties where occupied or not.

Sensible people in remote locations have provision to be without power,
telephone and road access. Not rocket science.

How long for? 3 days? 5 days? It appears there are some rules that
say people must be reached within 7 days of being isolated. That is
why the RAF Chinook was drafted in. See another post about that...

It wasn't until several days later that the last, local, public road
was re-opened. On day 11 we were manually digging through 50 yds of 6
to 8' drift on a neighbours private track.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 23:34:48 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

That won't be of much use to someone with a health problem who
wakes
up one morning and finds that the power went off 5 hours ago; or
for
the able bodied who similarly find that power has been off for
some
time and they are isolated due to deep snow - as happened to many

people recently!

Sure, but the later don t need to call anyone because there is
nothing anyone can do about that.

If our power is off I call the DNO, we are the only customer on the
end of about 1/4 mile of, fused, single phase 11 kV. If that section
has failed or the fuse(s) blown they won't know. If they don't know,
they can't fix it...

It was bad enough that army helicopters were dropping supplies - that's
not going to happen if no-one knows that they are stuck there without
power and quite possibly without heating because of it.

It would have been better if the Chinook had actaully dropped the
supplies at the many places that where still cut off after 7 days,
rather than at the village halls, or if they had to drop at the
village halls have some control on who got the supplies...

The villagers could get out by 4x4 from day 2 and you could get off
The Moor on day 3 (not that it did you any good as all the
supermarkets had had the bread, milk, and fresh veg shelves stripped
by the panic buyers).

I know some one who was getting low on fire wood so when the Chinook
flew past decided to go down to the village and see what was
available. To do that he had to go to town and back out as the short
way was still blocked. By the time he got there, nothing was left...

But it appears that no one who needed to know knew which of the
scattered properties where occupied. Mind you if you have Chinook as
your delivery method, you just need to fly slowly past places at a
couple of hundred feet and the people will emerge. Chinooks are
*very* loud and at that sort of distance impossible to ignore, if
only beacasue the windows will be threatening to come in on each
WHOP.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 13:51:23 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

However cost wise its per min charging makes it more expensive than the
bundled deal of calls on the normal line - even if its notionally
cheaper than the per minute pricing outside of the bundle.

You must have a pretty poor VOIP tariff, or a damn good POTS one.
B-)

For a minute or two non inclusive, UK 01, 02, 03 call on BT you're
looking at 50p ish a go. Our VOIP 5p...

The "Anytime" package from BT is £9.50/month. I guess if you "live on
the phone" even 1p/minute adds up but we don't. I've spent about £12
on VOIP calls since Jul 16, SWMBO'd about £24 since Mar 17.

--
Cheers
Dave.