Screwfix have a kit with a Ryobi 18v (one+) combo drill and an impact driver
with two batteries, charger and bag for £100.
Seems good value but are the tools Ok?

It happens that dennis@home formulated :
Screwfix have a kit with a Ryobi 18v (one+) combo drill and an impact driver
with two batteries, charger and bag for £100.
Seems good value but are the tools Ok?

Yes, pretty good for the money.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 2008-04-09 17:26:59 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:

Screwfix have a kit with a Ryobi 18v (one+) combo drill and an impact
driver with two batteries, charger and bag for £100.
Seems good value but are the tools Ok?

They are a mediochre brand manufactured by Tecthtronics International,
a Chinese company. Ryobi is better than their Power Devil and AEG
brands but not as good as Milwaukee which they also make.

I have looked at and handled Ryobi drills. They do not feel solid
and precise and the mechanisms seem quite clunky.

Makita or Bosch would be much better choices in terms of build quality
and usability.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fd02fb@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-09 17:26:59 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:

Screwfix have a kit with a Ryobi 18v (one+) combo drill and an impact
driver with two batteries, charger and bag for £100.
Seems good value but are the tools Ok?

They are a mediochre brand manufactured by Tecthtronics International, a
Chinese company. Ryobi is better than their Power Devil and AEG brands
but not as good as Milwaukee which they also make.

I have looked at and handled Ryobi drills. They do not feel solid and
precise and the mechanisms seem quite clunky.

The impact driver feels very solid.
Yes, I went and spent some cash.

The drill is much lighter and has less metal.

Makita or Bosch would be much better choices in terms of build quality and
usability.

But rather more in cash terms and I am not going into business.

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 18:55:07 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

Ryobi drills

They are a mediochre brand manufactured by Tecthtronics International,
a Chinese company. Ryobi is better than their Power Devil and AEG
brands but not as good as Milwaukee which they also make.

Must be a bit of crossover in products now as we ordered a Milwaukee
core drill but it arrived as an AEG (Identical unit).

I have looked at and handled Ryobi drills. They do not feel solid
and precise and the mechanisms seem quite clunky.

Makita or Bosch would be much better choices in terms of build quality
and usability.

Makita yes and Blue Bosch definately.

I still have a 7.2v Makita drill, bought oh, must be 20 years ago now
(long slim battery that slid up inside the handle like a pistol
magazine) and it is still going strong and the original batteries
still give 1/2 an hour drilling (NiCd's). Very useful for tight
spaces.

On 2008-04-09 19:28:49 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:



"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fd02fb@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-09 17:26:59 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:

Screwfix have a kit with a Ryobi 18v (one+) combo drill and an impact
driver with two batteries, charger and bag for £100.
Seems good value but are the tools Ok?

They are a mediochre brand manufactured by Tecthtronics International,
a Chinese company. Ryobi is better than their Power Devil and AEG
brands but not as good as Milwaukee which they also make.

I have looked at and handled Ryobi drills. They do not feel solid
and precise and the mechanisms seem quite clunky.

The impact driver feels very solid.
Yes, I went and spent some cash.

The drill is much lighter and has less metal.

Exactly. That has a number of implications.


Makita or Bosch would be much better choices in terms of build quality
and usability.

But rather more in cash terms and I am not going into business.

Who said anything about going into business? There is a lot more to a
purchase than the initial outlay.

On 2008-04-09 19:28:49 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:



"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fd02fb@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-09 17:26:59 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:

Screwfix have a kit with a Ryobi 18v (one+) combo drill and an impact
driver with two batteries, charger and bag for £100.
Seems good value but are the tools Ok?

They are a mediochre brand manufactured by Tecthtronics International,
a Chinese company. Ryobi is better than their Power Devil and AEG
brands but not as good as Milwaukee which they also make.

I have looked at and handled Ryobi drills. They do not feel solid
and precise and the mechanisms seem quite clunky.

The impact driver feels very solid.
Yes, I went and spent some cash.

The drill is much lighter and has less metal.

Exactly. That has a number of implications.


Makita or Bosch would be much better choices in terms of build quality
and usability.

But rather more in cash terms and I am not going into business.

Who said anything about going into business? There is a lot more to a
purchase than the initial outlay.

Jeff wrote:
On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 18:55:07 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

Ryobi drills

They are a mediochre brand manufactured by Tecthtronics
International, a Chinese company. Ryobi is better than their
Power Devil and AEG brands but not as good as Milwaukee which they
also make.

Must be a bit of crossover in products now as we ordered a Milwaukee
core drill but it arrived as an AEG (Identical unit).

I have looked at and handled Ryobi drills. They do not feel solid
and precise and the mechanisms seem quite clunky.

Makita or Bosch would be much better choices in terms of build
quality and usability.

Makita yes and Blue Bosch definately.

I still have a 7.2v Makita drill, bought oh, must be 20 years ago now
(long slim battery that slid up inside the handle like a pistol
magazine) and it is still going strong and the original batteries
still give 1/2 an hour drilling (NiCd's). Very useful for tight
spaces.

Modern version is excellent.
http://www.toolstop.co.uk/?option=sh...FQU11AodC3tJHw


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-09 19:28:49 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:



"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news:47fd02fb@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-09 17:26:59 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:

Screwfix have a kit with a Ryobi 18v (one+) combo drill and an
impact driver with two batteries, charger and bag for £100.
Seems good value but are the tools Ok?

They are a mediochre brand manufactured by Tecthtronics
International, a Chinese company. Ryobi is better than their
Power Devil and AEG brands but not as good as Milwaukee which they
also make. I have looked at and handled Ryobi drills. They do not
feel
solid and precise and the mechanisms seem quite clunky.

The impact driver feels very solid.
Yes, I went and spent some cash.

The drill is much lighter and has less metal.

Exactly. That has a number of implications.


Makita or Bosch would be much better choices in terms of build
quality and usability.

But rather more in cash terms and I am not going into business.

Who said anything about going into business? There is a lot more to a
purchase than the initial outlay.

There's also your budget to consider, something you always seem to forget -
being a rich bloke I assume. Makita or Bosch are a great choice for full
time users but overkill for occcassional DIY use. Ryobi is a good mid range
price machine ideal for DIY use.

Bought a Ryobi SDS t'other day as a 'clean' SDS to take into peoples houses
for lintels etc, Wickes SDS does the dirty work like light breaking. The
Ryobi is a nice solid machine that performs well and was £40 on a Screwfix
offer.

Couldn't possibly justify £100 on a second machine, can justify £40.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 2008-04-09 20:04:30 +0100, Jeff said:

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 18:55:07 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

Ryobi drills

They are a mediochre brand manufactured by Tecthtronics International,
a Chinese company. Ryobi is better than their Power Devil and AEG
brands but not as good as Milwaukee which they also make.

Must be a bit of crossover in products now as we ordered a Milwaukee
core drill but it arrived as an AEG (Identical unit).

So a playing around with product volumes and positioning.

When Milwaukee was manufactured in the U.S. it was one of a small
number of quality and rugged tools for contractors.

Since Atlas Copco sold them to TTI in 2005 amid a lot of hype about
improving market share for Milwaukee, very little has been said about
that.

In TTI's interim annual report for 2007 they admit that their power
equipment business has declined by nearly 6% (which is a great deal in
the business) yet represents nearly 70% of TTI's revenue. They go on
to talk about the Ryobi brand and One+ system. That really is a yawn
because other manufacturers have been using this concept for years.

In other words, there is a range consolidation exercise going on.

More interestingly, they spend a great deal of time talking about their
acquisition of Hoover.

Finally, they announced what amounts to a corporate restructuring and
appointment of a new CEO in January. hardly surprising when their
stock price has halved in the last year.



I have looked at and handled Ryobi drills. They do not feel solid
and precise and the mechanisms seem quite clunky.

Makita or Bosch would be much better choices in terms of build quality
and usability.

Makita yes and Blue Bosch definately.

I still have a 7.2v Makita drill, bought oh, must be 20 years ago now
(long slim battery that slid up inside the handle like a pistol
magazine) and it is still going strong and the original batteries
still give 1/2 an hour drilling (NiCd's). Very useful for tight
spaces.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
Screwfix have a kit with a Ryobi 18v (one+) combo drill and an impact
driver with two batteries, charger and bag for £100.
Seems good value but are the tools Ok?

Go for it! The Ryobi is excellent. Well made as does what they say. The
ONE+ batteries are top quality and have Panasonic cells.

On 2008-04-09 21:45:30 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:



Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-09 19:28:49 +0100, "dennis@home"

Who said anything about going into business? There is a lot more to a
purchase than the initial outlay.

There's also your budget to consider, something you always seem to forget -
being a rich bloke I assume.

Actually not. One needs to take into account all of the factors when
considering a budget. That needs to include time taken when doing
work as well as time taken if items need to be serviced or replaced.
In other words it is the lifetime cost that matters, not just the
purchase price.


Makita or Bosch are a great choice for full
time users but overkill for occcassional DIY use. Ryobi is a good mid range
price machine ideal for DIY use.

That makes no sense at all. It is assuming that because the
application is "DIY" that there is not the need for quality tools in
terms of usability, accuracy and speed of working. Time is not free
and "DIY" does not equate to an excuse for crappy tools, materials and
outcome.



Bought a Ryobi SDS t'other day as a 'clean' SDS to take into peoples houses
for lintels etc, Wickes SDS does the dirty work like light breaking. The
Ryobi is a nice solid machine that performs well and was £40 on a Screwfix
offer.

Couldn't possibly justify £100 on a second machine, can justify £40.

This is illogical as well. You are currently charging £45 as the
starting hour rate including travel. If you need to buy two of the
£40 drills in the same period of time that a £100 DeWalt or Bosch would
last, you will have spent two lots of £40 plus waste of an hour
effecting the replacement. That scenario is highly probable and as
(almost) always, buying the cheap thing is a false economy.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...

There's also your budget to consider, something you always seem to
forget - being a rich bloke I assume. Makita or Bosch are a great choice
for full time users but overkill for occcassional DIY use. Ryobi is a
good mid range price machine ideal for DIY use.

They are rated light to medium trade.

They are really taking off as a brand and in sales too.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fd2ddc@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-09 20:04:30 +0100, Jeff said:

They go on to talk about the Ryobi brand and One+ system. That really is
a yawn because other manufacturers have been using this concept for years.

Matt, but none of them market it like Ryobi do. Others have it as a
sideline you have to ask about. The best marketed one battery system is the
Ryobi ONE+

On 2008-04-09 22:19:10 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fd2ddc@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-09 20:04:30 +0100, Jeff said:

They go on to talk about the Ryobi brand and One+ system. That really
is a yawn because other manufacturers have been using this concept for
years.

Matt, but none of them market it like Ryobi do. Others have it as a
sideline you have to ask about. The best marketed one battery system
is the Ryobi ONE+

Best marketed. Possibly true. They spend enough on advertising.
However, when one looks at the range of products meant to use this
system, half aren't worth having as a function.

Ergo, it really isn't that big a deal.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
Screwfix have a kit with a Ryobi 18v (one+) combo drill and an impact
driver with two batteries, charger and bag for £100.
Seems good value but are the tools Ok?

Go for it! The Ryobi is excellent. Well made as does what they say. The
ONE+ batteries are top quality and have Panasonic cells.
I'd agree with that. I've given a 14.4 ryobi drill plus angle drill with two
batteries and a good fast charger a fair old hammering over the past few
years, although I did just replace one set of cells. I also have a mains
standard impact drill which has been fine, also a small petrol strimmer. Not
De Walt, but I'd rate them for the reasonably serious DIYer who can't claim
tax relief.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-09 21:45:30 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:



Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-09 19:28:49 +0100, "dennis@home"

Who said anything about going into business? There is a lot more
to a purchase than the initial outlay.

There's also your budget to consider, something you always seem to
forget - being a rich bloke I assume.

Actually not. One needs to take into account all of the factors when
considering a budget. That needs to include time taken when doing
work as well as time taken if items need to be serviced or replaced.
In other words it is the lifetime cost that matters, not just the
purchase price.

But those costs don't enter into the equation for DIY users. Diy
enthusiasts don't cost out their time like tradesmen have to. As to
lifetime cost, thats relevant for trade users but not for DIY users.

I remember reading that the first DIY electric drills from Black & Decker
and Stanley Bidges had a motor life of an hour. The theory was that, for
example, putting up a set of shelves would involve drilling 24 holes, each
taking maybe 10 seconds to drill, or 4 mins out of a total motor life of 60
mins

For the average Barry Bucknell DIY guy that meant his drill would last him
5 - 10 years.


Makita or Bosch are a great choice for full
time users but overkill for occcassional DIY use. Ryobi is a good
mid range price machine ideal for DIY use.

That makes no sense at all. It is assuming that because the
application is "DIY" that there is not the need for quality tools in
terms of usability, accuracy and speed of working. Time is not free
and "DIY" does not equate to an excuse for crappy tools, materials and
outcome.

You miss the point. DIY time is 'free' in the mind of a DIY enthusiast. A
reasonably priced power tool that enables a DIY guy to do a job he could not
have done without it fufills a need. It may not be as nice to use, be quite
as accurate or last as long as a top brand, but that doesn't matter.

Some power tools are a 'luxury' purchase for the DIY guy. A biscuit joiner
that enables him to build a one off kitchen. An SDS that means he can hang
those 4 curtain poles.


Bought a Ryobi SDS t'other day as a 'clean' SDS to take into peoples
houses for lintels etc, Wickes SDS does the dirty work like light
breaking. The Ryobi is a nice solid machine that performs well and
was £40 on a Screwfix offer.

Couldn't possibly justify £100 on a second machine, can justify £40.

This is illogical as well. You are currently charging £45 as the
starting hour rate including travel. If you need to buy two of the
£40 drills in the same period of time that a £100 DeWalt or Bosch
would last, you will have spent two lots of £40 plus waste of an hour
effecting the replacement. That scenario is highly probable and as
(almost) always, buying the cheap thing is a false economy.

Not so. The Ryobi I bought is intended only for use in 'clean' areas like
fitting curtain poles in lounges with white carpets & silk wallpaper. It
will be used infrequently because the Wickes/Kress SDS does all the heavy
dirty work. I estimate it will be used 3
or 4 times a month for short periods - half a dozen holes in a lintel each
time.

My justification for buying it is based on customer service - I take my
boots off, my hop up rests on a dust sheet, I use a nice clean drill with a
nice clean cable, that doesn't look like a refugee from a building site &
doesnt leave a dirty mark on the carpet. Thats worth £40 to me as I work
regularly for a couple of up market curtain desingers. Its a 'luxury'
purchase.

So, useage actually around 4 mins a month - I reckon it will outlast me.
Not dissimilar to DIY use really. A DIY guy with his first SDS will use it
for a few hours, then it sits in the box for 6 months until the next project
starts.

Horses for courses Andy. Tools that I use every day I'm willing to invest
in. Tools used occassionally as a luxury I need to justify & wait for a
special offer.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

newshound wrote:
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
Screwfix have a kit with a Ryobi 18v (one+) combo drill and an
impact driver with two batteries, charger and bag for £100.
Seems good value but are the tools Ok?

Go for it! The Ryobi is excellent. Well made as does what they
say. The ONE+ batteries are top quality and have Panasonic cells.

I'd agree with that. I've given a 14.4 ryobi drill plus angle drill
with two batteries and a good fast charger a fair old hammering over
the past few years, although I did just replace one set of cells. I
also have a mains standard impact drill which has been fine, also a
small petrol strimmer. Not De Walt, but I'd rate them for the
reasonably serious DIYer who can't claim tax relief.

Nail, hit, head there matey. I can justify spending a little extra for a
tool I use every day because Golden Brown is paying for some of it, DIY
people can't.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:42:36 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

I remember reading that the first DIY electric drills from Black & Decker
and Stanley Bidges had a motor life of an hour.

Pah - you youngun! My dad's first power drill was a ¼" Bridges -
before any connection with this 'Stanley' outfit. He had sanding disks
(rigid and flexible), polishing mops, a drill stand and a saw table as
accessories.

I burnt it out using a holesaw of about 2" through a bit of (ISTR) ¾"
chipboard, ages ago, fortunately when Dad was away at sea!

I.m talking some 35-40 years ago...

--
Frank Erskine
Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught.

On 2008-04-09 23:42:36 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:



Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-09 21:45:30 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:



Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-09 19:28:49 +0100, "dennis@home"

Who said anything about going into business? There is a lot more
to a purchase than the initial outlay.

There's also your budget to consider, something you always seem to
forget - being a rich bloke I assume.

Actually not. One needs to take into account all of the factors when
considering a budget. That needs to include time taken when doing
work as well as time taken if items need to be serviced or replaced.
In other words it is the lifetime cost that matters, not just the
purchase price.

But those costs don't enter into the equation for DIY users.

Absolutely they do.


Diy
enthusiasts don't cost out their time like tradesmen have to.

Certainly they do. Time is not free.


As to
lifetime cost, thats relevant for trade users but not for DIY users.


That's also not correct.




I remember reading that the first DIY electric drills from Black & Decker
and Stanley Bidges had a motor life of an hour. The theory was that, for
example, putting up a set of shelves would involve drilling 24 holes, each
taking maybe 10 seconds to drill, or 4 mins out of a total motor life of 60
mins

For the average Barry Bucknell DIY guy that meant his drill would last him
5 - 10 years.

That's really a put down of DIY that is not justified.





Makita or Bosch are a great choice for full
time users but overkill for occcassional DIY use. Ryobi is a good
mid range price machine ideal for DIY use.

That makes no sense at all. It is assuming that because the
application is "DIY" that there is not the need for quality tools in
terms of usability, accuracy and speed of working. Time is not free
and "DIY" does not equate to an excuse for crappy tools, materials and
outcome.

You miss the point.

I'm not at all, you are.


DIY time is 'free' in the mind of a DIY enthusiast.

No it isn't.



A
reasonably priced power tool that enables a DIY guy to do a job he could not
have done without it fufills a need. It may not be as nice to use, be quite
as accurate or last as long as a top brand, but that doesn't matter.

Yes it does matter.

Step back for a moment and consider the motivations for DIY. There
are many, but I'll list a few:


a) To do work at a lower initial cash outlay than it would take to
employ professionals to do the jobs

b) To get the work done when professionals are not available either at
all or at suitable timescales or with other logistical factors

c) To achieve specific results that professionals may not be willing
or able to undertake - e.g. use of specific materials or techniques.

d) To achieve a better quality outcome than professionals are able or
willing to do.

e) To be an alternative activity to the day job.

f) As a means to learn new skills

g) As part of something more specific - e.g. woodworking, furniture
making to give one example.

This is quite a broad set of reasons and certainly goes beyond the
simple minded model of comparing the purchase of materials and tools
vs. employing a professional. Even for case (a), that is
incorrect because some material costs can be amortised over several
jobs, and the cost of tools certainly can, and even more so if they are
of good quality with long life expectancy.

The factor of time can be accounted for in many different ways as well

1) Some people may choose not to account for their personal time at
all - somewhat short sighted and ignoring the many motivations for DIY
work.

2) Others may look at the money that they can make at the day job and
if that exceeds the cost of employing a professional, then employ the
professional.

3) Yet others may take the opposite view - i.e. even though they can
make more money at the day job, choose to do the work themselves for
any or many of (b) to (g) above.

4) Where the individual chooses to spend their personal time on other
things than DIY

So one might ask why, in looking at all of the motivations for DIY and
then choosing to do work even though it's possible to make more money
at the day job that time and good quality tools are important.
The reasons for that are simple enough as well

- If my motivation to do work is because I can achieve a better result
than a professional, the use of good quality tools can influence outcome

- If it's because I choose to spend my time doing work as opposed to
employing a professional, even though the simple financial equation
suggests using the professional, I want to maximise the use of my time
to achieve the outcome. This means that I don't want to waste time
on having to return and/or rebuy tools that are of poor quality.

- If I'm motivated because I enjoy the use of good quality tools in
terms of precision, ergonomics and results, then I don't want to spoil
that through the use of inferior products that will cause frustration
in use.

Therefore, whether I choose to put a financial cost on time or a
leisure cost on it, time has a great deal of value either way, and on
both arguments one can justify the purchase of good quality tools and
materials especially if done so over a period of time.

To limit the scope of the meaning of DIY to a short term comparison of
cash outlay, and ignoring all other factors, does not present a true
picture that applies to all participants and even for people who
consider that (a) and (1) are the main motivating factors is a
disservice even to them.



Some power tools are a 'luxury' purchase for the DIY guy. A biscuit joiner
that enables him to build a one off kitchen. An SDS that means he can hang
those 4 curtain poles.

Again a sweeping generalisation. There are many reasons to purchase
a biscuit joiner, or for that matter an SDS drill. For a situation
that is a one off, there are tool rental places or one could even
employ a professional or a handyman.





Bought a Ryobi SDS t'other day as a 'clean' SDS to take into peoples
houses for lintels etc, Wickes SDS does the dirty work like light
breaking. The Ryobi is a nice solid machine that performs well and
was £40 on a Screwfix offer.

Couldn't possibly justify £100 on a second machine, can justify £40.

This is illogical as well. You are currently charging £45 as the
starting hour rate including travel. If you need to buy two of the
£40 drills in the same period of time that a £100 DeWalt or Bosch
would last, you will have spent two lots of £40 plus waste of an hour
effecting the replacement. That scenario is highly probable and as
(almost) always, buying the cheap thing is a false economy.

Not so. The Ryobi I bought is intended only for use in 'clean' areas like
fitting curtain poles in lounges with white carpets & silk wallpaper. It
will be used infrequently because the Wickes/Kress SDS does all the heavy
dirty work. I estimate it will be used 3
or 4 times a month for short periods - half a dozen holes in a lintel each
time.

My justification for buying it is based on customer service - I take my
boots off, my hop up rests on a dust sheet, I use a nice clean drill with a
nice clean cable, that doesn't look like a refugee from a building site &
doesnt leave a dirty mark on the carpet. Thats worth £40 to me as I work
regularly for a couple of up market curtain desingers. Its a 'luxury'
purchase.

A Bosch would have been better and would have been more impressive to
the designer's customers.


So, useage actually around 4 mins a month - I reckon it will outlast me.
Not dissimilar to DIY use really.

Wrong conclusion. You are assuming that DIY use equates to specific
patterns of use.


A DIY guy with his first SDS will use it
for a few hours, then it sits in the box for 6 months until the next project
starts.

You're kidding. My first significant project was the complete
repair and refurbishment of a house including structural work, complete
replacement of wiring and installation of central heating. At that
time, SDS drills were not available (Bosch invented them around 1975).
If they had been, this would have been an obvious purchase and a
good quality one a clear decision.




Horses for courses Andy.

Exactly. Equestrian sports involving courses do not consist simply
of the Grand National. One also needs to consider that there is
flat racing, dirt track, dressage, polo and so on. Therefore it is
a mistake to assume that DIY automatically equates simply to short term
apparent money saving without consideration of all factors and
motivations.



Tools that I use every day I'm willing to invest
in. Tools used occassionally as a luxury I need to justify & wait for a
special offer.

I don't look at tool purchases in terms of it being necessary to use it
every day. I tend to consider the likely number and type of
projects over the lifetime of the tool. That includes whether or not
the tool will positively affect the process of executing the projects,
outcome and time taken. If that is at all unclear, I generally
will not buy the tool. The options then are to rent a good quality
tool or potentially to employ a professional. What I will not do is to
buy some inferior product on the occasional use argument, especially if
it appears that it will negatively affect projects and their outcome or
has poor build quality.

On 2008-04-09 23:49:35 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:



newshound wrote:
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
Screwfix have a kit with a Ryobi 18v (one+) combo drill and an
impact driver with two batteries, charger and bag for £100.
Seems good value but are the tools Ok?

Go for it! The Ryobi is excellent. Well made as does what they
say. The ONE+ batteries are top quality and have Panasonic cells.

I'd agree with that. I've given a 14.4 ryobi drill plus angle drill
with two batteries and a good fast charger a fair old hammering over
the past few years, although I did just replace one set of cells. I
also have a mains standard impact drill which has been fine, also a
small petrol strimmer. Not De Walt, but I'd rate them for the
reasonably serious DIYer who can't claim tax relief.

Nail, hit, head there matey.


More like hit thumb with hammer.



I can justify spending a little extra for a
tool I use every day because Golden Brown is paying for some of it, DIY
people can't.


That isn't correct. There are many more factors involved than a
simple one of every day use or not and tax relief or not. The
difference in actual and opportunity cost between mid market products
such as Ryobi and good quality such as Makita, Bosch, DeWalt, Metabo is
eaten up by additional visits to the store to exchange/replace broken
cheap tools and in the extra capital purchase costs of the cheaper
tools over time.

This is why the lifetime cost and profile of use should be considered
and not just the price on the ticket.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fda5fd@qaanaaq...

8

Again a sweeping generalisation. There are many reasons to purchase a
biscuit joiner, or for that matter an SDS drill. For a situation that
is a one off, there are tool rental places

You are kidding.. buy a cheap tool and chuck it away.
Even if you buy a really cheap one and break it you can take it bake for a
refund.
Hell some would take it back for a refund anyway.

or one could even employ a professional or a handyman.

And end up with a worse job than DIY.
Finding a trades person you can trust is difficult for many people (they
don't all have the head of building control living next door 8-) ).

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fda878@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-09 23:49:35 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:



newshound wrote:
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
Screwfix have a kit with a Ryobi 18v (one+) combo drill and an
impact driver with two batteries, charger and bag for £100.
Seems good value but are the tools Ok?

Go for it! The Ryobi is excellent. Well made as does what they
say. The ONE+ batteries are top quality and have Panasonic cells.

I'd agree with that. I've given a 14.4 ryobi drill plus angle drill
with two batteries and a good fast charger a fair old hammering over
the past few years, although I did just replace one set of cells. I
also have a mains standard impact drill which has been fine, also a
small petrol strimmer. Not De Walt, but I'd rate them for the
reasonably serious DIYer who can't claim tax relief.

Nail, hit, head there matey.


More like hit thumb with hammer.



I can justify spending a little extra for a
tool I use every day because Golden Brown is paying for some of it, DIY
people can't.


That isn't correct. There are many more factors involved than a
simple one of every day use or not and tax relief or not. The
difference in actual and opportunity cost between mid market products such
as Ryobi and good quality such as Makita, Bosch, DeWalt, Metabo is eaten
up by additional visits to the store to exchange/replace broken cheap
tools and in the extra capital purchase costs of the cheaper tools over
time.

This is why the lifetime cost and profile of use should be considered and
not just the price on the ticket.

As should the cost of chucking it away when a better tool is made for the
job.
I can see that a 40 year old BOSCH saw is going to be as easy to use as a
new one, maybe.
Just because a tool can last 40 years doesn't mean it should, times change,
safety systems change, materials change buying one built to last may mean
throwing a tool away that could last another 20 years if you didn't want
some better features.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
snip
I remember reading that the first DIY electric drills from Black & Decker
and Stanley Bidges had a motor life of an hour. The theory was that, for
example, putting up a set of shelves would involve drilling 24 holes, each
taking maybe 10 seconds to drill, or 4 mins out of a total motor life of 60
mins
snip

A friend visited B&D HQ many years ago. Saw a building maintenance man
disappear behind a hidden door in reception... carrying a Wolf drill
(might have been another decent brand).

When he got to see the director he was visiting, he mentioned this.
Response was pretty much exactly as above. Hence their own maintenance
people had to use other makes.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fd3d3e@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-09 22:19:10 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fd2ddc@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-09 20:04:30 +0100, Jeff said:

They go on to talk about the Ryobi brand and One+ system. That really
is a yawn because other manufacturers have been using this concept for
years.

Matt, but none of them market it like Ryobi do. Others have it as a
sideline you have to ask about. The best marketed one battery system is
the Ryobi ONE+

Best marketed. Possibly true.

Matt, very true. One page spreads in S/fix.

They spend enough on advertising.

That is marketing.

However, when one looks at the range of products meant to use this system,
half aren't worth having as a function.

The same as what everyone else is using.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...


newshound wrote:
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
Screwfix have a kit with a Ryobi 18v (one+) combo drill and an
impact driver with two batteries, charger and bag for £100.
Seems good value but are the tools Ok?

Go for it! The Ryobi is excellent. Well made as does what they
say. The ONE+ batteries are top quality and have Panasonic cells.

I'd agree with that. I've given a 14.4 ryobi drill plus angle drill
with two batteries and a good fast charger a fair old hammering over
the past few years, although I did just replace one set of cells. I
also have a mains standard impact drill which has been fine, also a
small petrol strimmer. Not De Walt, but I'd rate them for the
reasonably serious DIYer who can't claim tax relief.

Nail, hit, head there matey.

I see many tradesmen using Ryobi tools. The likes of office fitters who
need to use say an Impact Driver all day, they will use a super expensive
tool. Light trade, like plumbing and electrical work, where a drill will be
used occasional through the day, Ryobi are the business.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fda878@qaanaaq...

** drivel identified **

The difference in actual and opportunity
cost between mid market products
such as Ryobi and good quality such
as Makita, Bosch, DeWalt,

This implies Ryobi is poor quality which is total drivel.

"Rod" wrote in message
...
The Medway Handyman wrote:
snip
I remember reading that the first DIY electric drills from Black & Decker
and Stanley Bidges had a motor life of an hour. The theory was that, for
example, putting up a set of shelves would involve drilling 24 holes,
each taking maybe 10 seconds to drill, or 4 mins out of a total motor
life of 60 mins
snip

A friend visited B&D HQ many years ago. Saw a building maintenance man
disappear behind a hidden door in reception... carrying a Wolf drill
(might have been another decent brand).

When he got to see the director he was visiting, he mentioned this.
Response was pretty much exactly as above. Hence their own maintenance
people had to use other makes.

The top B&Q power tool man in one store told me the average DIY tools get
uses on average 2 minutes a year through its life.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
Screwfix have a kit with a Ryobi 18v (one+) combo drill and an impact
driver with two batteries, charger and bag for £100.
Seems good value but are the tools Ok?

It has a three hour charger, the only down side. But you can buy a fast
charger for not that much at £20. Even at £120 that is still a great deal.
Check if the batteries are suitable. It is 18v the same voltage as the ONE+
range so the batteries should be OK.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Jeff wrote:
On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 18:55:07 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

Ryobi drills
They are a mediochre brand manufactured by Tecthtronics
International, a Chinese company. Ryobi is better than their
Power Devil and AEG brands but not as good as Milwaukee which they
also make.
Must be a bit of crossover in products now as we ordered a Milwaukee
core drill but it arrived as an AEG (Identical unit).
I have looked at and handled Ryobi drills. They do not feel solid
and precise and the mechanisms seem quite clunky.

Makita or Bosch would be much better choices in terms of build
quality and usability.
Makita yes and Blue Bosch definately.

I still have a 7.2v Makita drill, bought oh, must be 20 years ago now
(long slim battery that slid up inside the handle like a pistol
magazine) and it is still going strong and the original batteries
still give 1/2 an hour drilling (NiCd's). Very useful for tight
spaces.

Modern version is excellent.
http://www.toolstop.co.uk/?option=sh...FQU11AodC3tJHw


Damn you, Mr Medway!!! :-)

I had assumed that stocks would have been exhausted so gave it up as
"missed that". But no, you have to post that link and make me spend more
money.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fd02fb@qaanaaq...

Makita or Bosch would be much better choices in terms of build quality and
usability.

Why this obsession that only Makita a quality product, when others are
better, like Hilti, Hitachi, Festool or Durofix.
http://www.conceptdistribution.co.uk...s_Magazine.pdf
http://www.conceptdistribution.co.uk/index_main.html

The Durofix Impact Driver and combined Collated Driver is superb.

Rod, in article , says...


Damn you, Mr Medway!!! :-)

I had assumed that stocks would have been exhausted so gave it up as
"missed that". But no, you have to post that link and make me spend more
money.

There are some on e-bay: http://tinyurl.com/53po7w. I got one
from there, or a similar place, some time ago and it lives up
to its reputation, especially when driving long screws into
old wood when the wind was blowing hard :-)

--
JohnW.
Replace the obvious with co.uk in 2 places to mail me.

On 2008-04-10 08:32:36 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:



"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fda5fd@qaanaaq...

8

Again a sweeping generalisation. There are many reasons to purchase
a biscuit joiner, or for that matter an SDS drill. For a situation
that is a one off, there are tool rental places

You are kidding.. buy a cheap tool and chuck it away.

No I'm not kidding. You are missing the point of the difference in
quality and usability or indeed of highly specialised tools and
equipment. For example, let's say I had the need for a heavy duty
breaker to break up some concrete. I can rent one for about £45.
Buying even a cheap one would make no sense, for me at least.



Even if you buy a really cheap one and break it you can take it bake
for a refund.
Hell some would take it back for a refund anyway.

That's always assuming that it could do the job in the first place.



or one could even employ a professional or a handyman.

And end up with a worse job than DIY.
Finding a trades person you can trust is difficult for many people
(they don't all have the head of building control living next door 8-)
).

On 2008-04-10 10:39:42 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Rod" wrote in message
...
The Medway Handyman wrote:
snip
I remember reading that the first DIY electric drills from Black &
Decker and Stanley Bidges had a motor life of an hour. The theory was
that, for example, putting up a set of shelves would involve drilling
24 holes, each taking maybe 10 seconds to drill, or 4 mins out of a
total motor life of 60 mins
snip

A friend visited B&D HQ many years ago. Saw a building maintenance man
disappear behind a hidden door in reception... carrying a Wolf drill
(might have been another decent brand).

When he got to see the director he was visiting, he mentioned this.
Response was pretty much exactly as above. Hence their own maintenance
people had to use other makes.

The top B&Q power tool man

There's a real recommendation

in one store told me the average DIY tools get uses on average 2
minutes a year through its life.

I wonder where he obtained that information.

On 2008-04-10 10:07:08 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fd3d3e@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-09 22:19:10 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fd2ddc@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-09 20:04:30 +0100, Jeff said:

They go on to talk about the Ryobi brand and One+ system. That really
is a yawn because other manufacturers have been using this concept for
years.

Matt, but none of them market it like Ryobi do. Others have it as a
sideline you have to ask about. The best marketed one battery system
is the Ryobi ONE+

Best marketed. Possibly true.

Matt, very true. One page spreads in S/fix.

Great.


They spend enough on advertising.

That is marketing.

It's advertising, which is one component of marketing.


However, when one looks at the range of products meant to use this
system, half aren't worth having as a function.

The same as what everyone else is using.

???

On 2008-04-10 14:19:09 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fd02fb@qaanaaq...

Makita or Bosch would be much better choices in terms of build quality
and usability.

Why this obsession that only Makita a quality product, when others are
better, like Hilti, Hitachi, Festool or Durofix.

What obsession? Makita has and has had for many years a good range of
drill products. Some of their sanders are OK as well, although Metabo
makes a better random orbit sander. Festool makes a better drill
than Makita in terms of the C12 product but does not have as
comprehensive a drill range as Makita.

Hitachi makes a better circular saw than Makita (has a cast base), but
Festool has a better one.

There is no one brand that is universally better than another within
the same quality level. One has to pick carefully according to
product type.

The other side of the coin as far as cordless single battery systems
like One+ is concerned is that it is also a lock in. Customers are
much more likely to buy other tools in the range because they already
have the batteries. This may mean that they will end up with
something very poor in some categories.


http://www.conceptdistribution.co.uk...s_Magazine.pdf
http://www.conceptdistribution.co.uk/index_main.html

The Durofix Impact Driver and combined Collated Driver is superb.

Do you have one, or is that simply what it says on the distributor's web site.?

On 2008-04-10 08:38:31 +0100, "dennis@home"
said:



"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fda878@qaanaaq...

This is why the lifetime cost and profile of use should be considered
and not just the price on the ticket.

As should the cost of chucking it away when a better tool is made for the job.
I can see that a 40 year old BOSCH saw is going to be as easy to use as
a new one, maybe.
Just because a tool can last 40 years doesn't mean it should, times
change, safety systems change, materials change buying one built to
last may mean throwing a tool away that could last another 20 years if
you didn't want some better features.

This is a valid point and should also be taken into account. However,
in extremis it is not a reason to view tools as disposable items.

On 2008-04-10 10:12:32 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fda878@qaanaaq...

** drivel identified **

The difference in actual and opportunity cost between mid market
products such as Ryobi and good quality such as Makita, Bosch, DeWalt,

This implies Ryobi is poor quality which is total drivel.

I didn't that it was poor quality in absolute terms. TTI's stated
positioning is as a mid market product. It's positioned as lower end
than Milwaukee for example, but clearly is better than generic private
label products.

If you pick up and use a drill ranging from generic, to Ryobi/AEG to
Makita/Bosch to Festool, it's abundantly clear that there is
considerable differentiation between each group in terms of usability,
control, balance and feel

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fe4a05@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-10 10:39:42 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Rod" wrote in message
...
The Medway Handyman wrote:
snip
I remember reading that the first DIY electric drills from Black &
Decker and Stanley Bidges had a motor life of an hour. The theory was
that, for example, putting up a set of shelves would involve drilling
24 holes, each taking maybe 10 seconds to drill, or 4 mins out of a
total motor life of 60 mins
snip

A friend visited B&D HQ many years ago. Saw a building maintenance man
disappear behind a hidden door in reception... carrying a Wolf drill
(might have been another decent brand).

When he got to see the director he was visiting, he mentioned this.
Response was pretty much exactly as above. Hence their own maintenance
people had to use other makes.

The top B&Q power tool man

There's a real recommendation

in one store told me the average DIY tools get uses on average 2 minutes
a year through its life.

I wonder where he obtained that information.

Matt, I wonder too.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fe4cd6@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-10 14:19:09 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:47fd02fb@qaanaaq...

Makita or Bosch would be much better choices in terms of build quality
and usability.

Why this obsession that only Makita a quality product, when others are
better, like Hilti, Hitachi, Festool or Durofix.

What obsession? Makita has and has had for many years a good range of
drill products. Some of their sanders are OK as well, although Metabo
makes a better random orbit sander. Festool makes a better drill than
Makita in terms of the C12 product but does not have as comprehensive a
drill range as Makita.

Hitachi makes a better circular saw than Makita (has a cast base), but
Festool has a better one.

There is no one brand that is universally better than another within the
same quality level. One has to pick carefully according to product type.

The other side of the coin as far as cordless single battery systems like
One+ is concerned is that it is also a lock in. Customers are much more
likely to buy other tools in the range because they already have the
batteries. This may mean that they will end up with something very poor
in some categories.


http://www.conceptdistribution.co.uk...s_Magazine.pdf
http://www.conceptdistribution.co.uk/index_main.html

The Durofix Impact Driver and combined Collated Driver is superb.

Do you have one, or is that simply what it says on the distributor's web
site.?

I saw one on site a few months ago and asked the guy about it as I had never
seen the brand before. Initially I thought it was a DIY cheapo collating gun
(there is no cheapo collating gun), but the look and feel is quality. It
wasn't cheap, but that Impact Driver with the collating attachment is very
cheap when you price up two separate quality units. The Impact Driver has
far more blows than others of the same type. The batteries are Sanyo. I
don't know where it is made.

I don't know what the price of the Impact Driver and collating attachment
is. But it is probably worth it in the end if you require the two tools.