Please - Wear your seatbelts, every single time you get in a car.

They were installed for your own good. Even if you don't like the
mandatory seatbelt laws. Even if you write a combative "Letters To
The Editor" opinion editorial railing against them, and insisting you
will not wear them.

http://www.dailynebraskan.com/vnews/...d?in_archive=1

Because your words might come back four months later to haunt you in
your afterlife. The writer of that article was recently killed as a
passenger in a completely survivable single-vehicle rollover accident
- he was ejected and killed, the driver and another passenger were
treated for "non-life-threatening injuries."

http://www.journalstar.com/articles/...9784029686.txt

http://www.snopes.com/autos/accident/seatbelt.asp

Nuff Said. Condolences to his family.

Needless to say, anyone who gets into any vehicle I'm driving who
doesn't want to buckle up, they can damned well get out and walk. The
car's not moving till you do - because as the driver I am responsible
for your safety, and I take it seriously.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Very well said, Bruce. And I agree whole heartedly... especially since my
sister forced me to wear my seatbelt when I was real young... maybe 11 or 12
years old. We were hungry after church so we went to Rally's (fast food
place) and when we were ready to leave... she told me to put my seatbelt on.
I said it was uncomfortable & didn't want to. She said she would not move an
inch until I did. Finally, my stubborn butt did buckle up. We pulled out..
went 1 block to the intersection. Got SMASHED in the side by a diabetic who
passed out while driving. We were in a 91 Mustang LX convertible & we
*definitely* would have been severely injured if not dead if we had not
been wearing our seatbelts. I came out of it without a single scratch. My
sister got a few bumps & bruises, but nothing major. Since then, nobody gets
in my car w/out putting on seatbelt. My friends are annoyed by it, but they
can deal. Btw, that was his 4th accident *that day*.

-Mike

--
A happy kid behind the wheel of a 98 Mustang GT
Cold air intake
FRPP 3.73 gears
Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter
Flowmaster 40 Series mufflers (self-installed woohoo)
Hi-speed fan switch
255/60R-15 rear tires
Subframe connectors
Aluminum adjustable clutch quadrant


"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
Please - Wear your seatbelts, every single time you get in a car.

They were installed for your own good. Even if you don't like the
mandatory seatbelt laws. Even if you write a combative "Letters To
The Editor" opinion editorial railing against them, and insisting you
will not wear them.


http://www.dailynebraskan.com/vnews/...14a5a030e91d?i
n_archive=1

Because your words might come back four months later to haunt you in
your afterlife. The writer of that article was recently killed as a
passenger in a completely survivable single-vehicle rollover accident
- he was ejected and killed, the driver and another passenger were
treated for "non-life-threatening injuries."


http://www.journalstar.com/articles/...00782597840296
86.txt

http://www.snopes.com/autos/accident/seatbelt.asp

Nuff Said. Condolences to his family.

Needless to say, anyone who gets into any vehicle I'm driving who
doesn't want to buckle up, they can damned well get out and walk. The
car's not moving till you do - because as the driver I am responsible
for your safety, and I take it seriously.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Please - Wear your seatbelts, every single time you get in a car.

They were installed for your own good. Even if you don't like the
mandatory seatbelt laws. Even if you write a combative "Letters To
The Editor" opinion editorial railing against them, and insisting you
will not wear them.


http://www.dailynebraskan.com/vnews/...14a5a030e91d?i
n_archive=1

Because your words might come back four months later to haunt you in
your afterlife. The writer of that article was recently killed as a
passenger in a completely survivable single-vehicle rollover accident
- he was ejected and killed, the driver and another passenger were
treated for "non-life-threatening injuries."


http://www.journalstar.com/articles/...00782597840296
86.txt

http://www.snopes.com/autos/accident/seatbelt.asp

Nuff Said. Condolences to his family.

Needless to say, anyone who gets into any vehicle I'm driving who
doesn't want to buckle up, they can damned well get out and walk. The
car's not moving till you do - because as the driver I am responsible
for your safety, and I take it seriously.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.


I have a friend who, for the last 18 yrs. investigates accidents for the
state. Any accident where an injury has occured he is called in. After
thousands of cases, he almost has tears in his eyes when he tells you to
always buckle up. The arguement about someone being injured or burned
because they were wearing seat belts is so overwhelmingly small compared to
the big picture.
Dixon

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:57:08 -0500, "Dixon"
wrote:

Please - Wear your seatbelts, every single time you get in a car.

They were installed for your own good. Even if you don't like the
mandatory seatbelt laws. Even if you write a combative "Letters To
The Editor" opinion editorial railing against them, and insisting you
will not wear them.


http://www.dailynebraskan.com/vnews/...14a5a030e91d?i
n_archive=1

Because your words might come back four months later to haunt you in
your afterlife. The writer of that article was recently killed as a
passenger in a completely survivable single-vehicle rollover accident
- he was ejected and killed, the driver and another passenger were
treated for "non-life-threatening injuries."


http://www.journalstar.com/articles/...00782597840296
86.txt

http://www.snopes.com/autos/accident/seatbelt.asp

Nuff Said. Condolences to his family.

Needless to say, anyone who gets into any vehicle I'm driving who
doesn't want to buckle up, they can damned well get out and walk. The
car's not moving till you do - because as the driver I am responsible
for your safety, and I take it seriously.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.


I have a friend who, for the last 18 yrs. investigates accidents for the
state. Any accident where an injury has occured he is called in. After
thousands of cases, he almost has tears in his eyes when he tells you to
always buckle up. The arguement about someone being injured or burned
because they were wearing seat belts is so overwhelmingly small compared to
the big picture.
Dixon



In '92 I was hit head on buy a car driven by someone having a
seizure. I was going about 30 as was the other car. The cars hit on
the right corners. His was totaled, mine was only two months old so it
was repaired. He had a Honda and mine was a Dodge colt. I walked away
with no injuries. The other guy, after he stopped seizing, was also
found to be un-injured. We both had our seat belts on. I'm sure we
both would have been launched through the windshield without belts.
ERS

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
Please - Wear your seatbelts, every single time you get in a car.

They were installed for your own good. Even if you don't like the
mandatory seatbelt laws. Even if you write a combative "Letters To
The Editor" opinion editorial railing against them, and insisting you
will not wear them.

http://www.dailynebraskan.com/vnews/...d?in_archive=1

Because your words might come back four months later to haunt you in
your afterlife. The writer of that article was recently killed as a
passenger in a completely survivable single-vehicle rollover accident
- he was ejected and killed, the driver and another passenger were
treated for "non-life-threatening injuries."

http://www.journalstar.com/articles/...9784029686.txt

http://www.snopes.com/autos/accident/seatbelt.asp

Nuff Said. Condolences to his family.

Needless to say, anyone who gets into any vehicle I'm driving who
doesn't want to buckle up, they can damned well get out and walk. The
car's not moving till you do - because as the driver I am responsible
for your safety, and I take it seriously.

-- Bruce --

Seat belts saved my hide (and probably my life) once. I bought a 51 Chev
pickup many moons ago and the first thing I did was install seatbelts. A
week later I was hit almost head on. The little Datsun that hit me was
totaled and the lady went to the hospital. My truck rolled over on its side
and I climbed out without a scratch. I'm sure I'd have been a lot worse off
without that seatbelt.

I cannot understand anyone who doesn't want to wear a seatbelt. My vehicles
don't move without everyone being buckled up.

Lane

In article , no spam says...

Seat belts saved my hide (and probably my life) once. I bought a 51 Chev
pickup many moons ago and the first thing I did was install seatbelts. A
week later I was hit almost head on. The little Datsun that hit me was
totaled and the lady went to the hospital. My truck rolled over on its side
and I climbed out without a scratch. I'm sure I'd have been a lot worse off
without that seatbelt.

I cannot understand anyone who doesn't want to wear a seatbelt. My vehicles
don't move without everyone being buckled up.

Well *somebody* has to do this, it may as well be me.

"My brother-in-laws cousin knew this guy one time who was
out driving. He didn't have his seatbelt on, and large
truck came around an icy curve on night, and smashed into him
head-on. Because he wasn't wearing his seatbelt, he was
thrown free of the wreck and landed in a bunch of hay
bales right before the car careened off a cliff, flipped
over, and exploded at the bottom of the hill.

Now the funny think is, that exact same crash happened
a year later, but the driver (not my brother-in-laws
cousins friend of course) *was* wearing his seatbelt
and wound up in the wrecked burned car at the bottom
of the ravine.

Of course the coroner found that the driver had been
clawing at the jammed release latch when they took
the body away."

There. I feel better now.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Well put. My only beef with seat belts these days is I prefer the older
style I can cinch up tight. I've never really gotten used to loose
floppy restraints, even though the reels do lock up under even moderate
braking.

I survived a motorcycle accident in the mid 70's, sans helmet, that I
really shouldn't have. I figure I'm lucky to have gotten lucky once, and
have never taken safety gear for granted since.

Jon

On 14 Jan 2005 19:52:38 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:
In article , no spam says...

Seat belts saved my hide (and probably my life) once. I bought a 51 Chev
pickup many moons ago and the first thing I did was install seatbelts. A
week later I was hit almost head on. The little Datsun that hit me was
totaled and the lady went to the hospital. My truck rolled over on its side
and I climbed out without a scratch. I'm sure I'd have been a lot worse off
without that seatbelt.

I cannot understand anyone who doesn't want to wear a seatbelt. My vehicles
don't move without everyone being buckled up.

Well *somebody* has to do this, it may as well be me.

"My brother-in-laws cousin knew this guy one time who was
out driving.

This is referred to as "Friend Of A Friend". In other words, not a
reliable citation, as there is no way to either independently verify
or debunk the story.

He didn't have his seatbelt on, and large
truck came around an icy curve on night, and smashed into him
head-on. Because he wasn't wearing his seatbelt, he was
thrown free of the wreck and landed in a bunch of hay
bales right before the car careened off a cliff, flipped
over, and exploded at the bottom of the hill.

Now the funny think is, that exact same crash happened
a year later, but the driver (not my brother-in-laws
cousins friend of course) *was* wearing his seatbelt
and wound up in the wrecked burned car at the bottom
of the ravine.

Of course the coroner found that the driver had been
clawing at the jammed release latch when they took
the body away."

There. I feel better now.

For what? Spreading an old campfire scary story? ;-)

Next thing, you'll say they found a bloody hook hanging from the
door handle...

Modern seatbelt latches take a lot of abuse before they jam. And a
semi-conscious person might claw at the latch, but wouldn't be able to
do anything about getting out and away even if they did get it open.

Sorry, but the odds are firmly in favor of seatbelts.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

In article ,
"Dixon" wrote:

I have a friend who, for the last 18 yrs. investigates accidents for the
state. Any accident where an injury has occured he is called in. After
thousands of cases, he almost has tears in his eyes when he tells you to
always buckle up. The arguement about someone being injured or burned
because they were wearing seat belts is so overwhelmingly small compared to
the big picture.
Dixon

Interesting anecdote, but it lacks the scientific big picture. Sure you
can find many people who are saved on one accident due to seat belts,
but no comprehensive scientific test has ever been done. In England,
for example, they found that seat belts saved drivers and there were
more pedestrians run over because the driver felt invulnerable. How
many people would be saved if a reckless driver died in his first
accident rather than surviving to wreck again?

I'm 66 and have been in 2 bad accidents, neither with seat belts. The
first was before seat belts were invented and the other was on a
motorcycle. The #1 method of avoiding injury is to avoid accidents. I
am not in favor of the driver wearing a seat belt, I would prefer to
have all the passengers protected and the driver unprotected.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

Seatbelts saved my life and my father's life - in separate accidents.

I managed to hit a pretty nurse who slammed on the brakes in front
of me ... when the cop took a look at the nurse and at me (I was *much*
younger and single) he left us alone and didn't report the accident. :-)))

My father was driving on rte 4 in N.J. (the *infamous* rte 4) -- clear,
sunny Spring day -- run full tilt into a car stopped dead in the highway.

He put his face into the windshield and had hamburger for a mug for a
couple of years (he was driving an old VW beetle) -- without the seatbelt
he's have been killed outright.

'nuf
- Carl

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
Please - Wear your seatbelts, every single time you get in a car.
..

In article ,
Ignoramus14690 wrote:

I had a collision with a train once (no ****) and a seatbelt was very
helpful. I walked away with the car totaled, but some minor bruises
from the seatbelt. No, I was not drunk, I was not trying to ride
through the gate, etc, I simply did not notice the train. It was dark,
the crossing was unmarked, and at the time I did not realize that I in
fact needed eyeglasses. I hit it in the middle, luckily I hit a
railroad car carriage instead of going underneath the train. The train
was going slowly.

i

Heh. Here in Waco we've got a lot of train crossings, all diligently
labeled "Do not stop on tracks." The one I cross every day has a stop
sign just beyond, so four or five cars can stack up before the crossing.
I stopped behind the tracks because there was no room, and the clever
little **** behind me went around me and stopped in the gap, on the
tracks.
I honked, he gave me the finger. I honked a few more times, and he
got out to yell at me. Once he got to my window to start yelling I
pointed down the tracks to the train that was coming. About the time
that he turned around the gates came down.
He managed to get in his truck and move it in time, but it sure was
fun to watch him scramble over the gate, trip on the tracks and throw a
fit trying to get the door open. The train blasting its horn and
screeching along the tracks probably made him **** his pants a few times
in the process.
People still stop on those tracks every day. Speaking of Darwin, we
need to speed those trains up a little. (:

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/

In article ,
Nick Hull wrote:

[...]

Interesting anecdote, but it lacks the scientific big picture. Sure you
can find many people who are saved on one accident due to seat belts,
but no comprehensive scientific test has ever been done. In England,
for example, they found that seat belts saved drivers and there were
more pedestrians run over because the driver felt invulnerable. How
many people would be saved if a reckless driver died in his first
accident rather than surviving to wreck again?

I'm 66 and have been in 2 bad accidents, neither with seat belts. The
first was before seat belts were invented and the other was on a
motorcycle. The #1 method of avoiding injury is to avoid accidents. I
am not in favor of the driver wearing a seat belt, I would prefer to
have all the passengers protected and the driver unprotected.

Sounds clever, but I wouldn't really favor it. My one accident was
caused by another driver not checking her blind spot and just coming
over and hitting me. Her big-assed Ford pickup knocked my tiny Toyota
into a concrete barricade. I was wrapped around a slab of concrete and
she had only a dent in her passenger door. Without belts I'd be dead
and she'd be free to go kill again.
OTOH your plan might work if all cars were the same size.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
Please - Wear your seatbelts, every single time you get in a car.
Because your words might come back four months later to haunt you in
your afterlife. The writer of that article was recently killed as a
passenger in a completely survivable single-vehicle rollover accident
- he was ejected and killed, the driver and another passenger were
treated for "non-life-threatening injuries."

http://www.journalstar.com/articles/...9784029686.txt

The whole accident could have been avoided. First of all the guy driving
was 21yrs. old, the road was iciy and they would not comment on the
speed. I'd be willing to bet that they were not driving at a save speed
for conditions. In order for that vehicle to roll several times they had
to be going quite fast. Also drivers today should go on a skid pad and
learn how there vehicle proforms in a skid. This kid probably never had
the **** scraed out of him when his vehicle got out of control brfore
this incident.

Nuff Said. Condolences to his family.

Needless to say, anyone who gets into any vehicle I'm driving who
doesn't want to buckle up, they can damned well get out and walk. The
car's not moving till you do - because as the driver I am responsible
for your safety, and I take it seriously.

I probably wouldn't get in the car with you anyway. I'd be willing to
bet you've never taken your car into a snowy "EMPTY" parking lot and did
some slides and spins just to see how the car would handle. With all
those safety devices that cars have today it gives people like you a
very secure feeling doesn't it?. It makes you more dangerous on the road
than a guy who knows he can get killed weather having all those safety
devices or not.
How many times have you pulled up to a four way stop and not given the
other driver a thought that he/she might not stop. I think about that
everytime. How about the person that pulls out of their driveway
backwards, which by the way is against the law when backing into a main
highway, have you thought do they see me, will they stop. Being aware of
your surroundings while driving is important, more so than all those
safety devices that give you a nice warm and fuzzy feeling.

The govt. tells you you need to wear seatbelts today, tomorrow it'll be
what color underwear you've got to wear, all in the name of safety. BTW,
you will wear "safety yellow" underwear when driving. :-)

Bernd

"It's to late to work within the system and to early to shot the
*******s. - Claire Wolfe

If you haven't got the brains to wear a safety belt while inside a
metal and glass motorized contraption moving at high speeds amongst
other such contraptions, all controlled by unpredictable humans...
What kind of survival instinct have you got? The kid may have been
"intelligent", at least as far as school subjects are concerned, but he
wasn't smart, and while he paid for it quickly, his family will be
paying for years to come.

There is no good excuse for not wearing a safety belt, except pure dumb
stubbornness. Frankly, If I were an EMT or a cop, I'd be seriously
****ed off at having to scrape some dumbasses sorry remains off the
pavement.


And, to address another poster or two he Yeah, I sure have and
continue to practice driving under less than ideal conditions, and find
myself a much better driver for it. Learning to drive on ice though,
isn't gonna save you when some ****head plows into your rear end at a
stoplight, as has happened to me. It's also not gonna save you from
the bonehead who makes a left turn across three lanes of traffic (that
time he came off worse than I did). And if you think being 'thrown
free' is likely safer than staying confined within a safety cage, well,
either you haven't really thought about it, or your thinking processes
are defective.

JD wrote:

It's also not gonna save you from
the bonehead who makes a left turn across three lanes of traffic

My wife has been in 3 accidents with two cars totaled. Twice while
stopped at stop sign/traffic light she was rear ended.
And once, a young girl pulled out from a parking lot right in front of
her. Cop asked if she'd looked before pulling out and she said "Well, I
looked to the right..." Unfortunately my wife was coming from the left.
I was almost hit twice the other day from people losing control on ice.
Dip****s forget it takes longer for ice to melt in the shade...

No shortage of good reasons to belt up!

Heh, I remember back around 1965 or so, seeing a family in a Rambler
station wagon, all wearing motorcycle helmets! Probably going a bit too
far, but then I'd give wide berth to anyone in a car wearing a helmet...

Jon

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
Please - Wear your seatbelts, every single time you get in a car.

Also - AIUI.
In the USA airbags are sized to restrain unbelted passengers.
In countries with mandatory seatbelts, the airbags are much smaller,
and less likely to be fatal in minor accidents.

In article , Bernd
says...

How many times have you pulled up to a four way stop and not given the
other driver a thought that he/she might not stop.

Drive a motorcycle. Then come talk to me.

YOu do that every time then. YOu check to see if they're going
to stop at *any* stop sign. You check to see if they're going
to stop at red lights. YOu check to see that they're driving
on their side of the line. You check everything.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , B.B.
says...

He managed to get in his truck and move it in time, but it sure was
fun to watch him scramble over the gate, trip on the tracks and throw a
fit trying to get the door open. The train blasting its horn and
screeching along the tracks probably made him **** his pants a few times
in the process.

He was probably too busy talking on his cell phone to notice
the sign.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

LMAO!!!

-Mike

--
A happy kid behind the wheel of a 98 Mustang GT
Cold air intake
FRPP 3.73 gears
Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter
Flowmaster 40 Series mufflers (self-installed woohoo)
Hi-speed fan switch
255/60R-15 rear tires
Subframe connectors
Aluminum adjustable clutch quadrant


"B.B." u wrote in message
news
In article ,
Ignoramus14690 wrote:

I had a collision with a train once (no ****) and a seatbelt was very
helpful. I walked away with the car totaled, but some minor bruises
from the seatbelt. No, I was not drunk, I was not trying to ride
through the gate, etc, I simply did not notice the train. It was dark,
the crossing was unmarked, and at the time I did not realize that I in
fact needed eyeglasses. I hit it in the middle, luckily I hit a
railroad car carriage instead of going underneath the train. The train
was going slowly.

i

Heh. Here in Waco we've got a lot of train crossings, all diligently
labeled "Do not stop on tracks." The one I cross every day has a stop
sign just beyond, so four or five cars can stack up before the crossing.
I stopped behind the tracks because there was no room, and the clever
little **** behind me went around me and stopped in the gap, on the
tracks.
I honked, he gave me the finger. I honked a few more times, and he
got out to yell at me. Once he got to my window to start yelling I
pointed down the tracks to the train that was coming. About the time
that he turned around the gates came down.
He managed to get in his truck and move it in time, but it sure was
fun to watch him scramble over the gate, trip on the tracks and throw a
fit trying to get the door open. The train blasting its horn and
screeching along the tracks probably made him **** his pants a few times
in the process.
People still stop on those tracks every day. Speaking of Darwin, we
need to speed those trains up a little. (:

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/

In article , Carl
Hoffmeyer says...

My father was driving on rte 4 in N.J. (the *infamous* rte 4) -- clear,
sunny Spring day -- run full tilt into a car stopped dead in the highway.

He put his face into the windshield and had hamburger for a mug for a
couple of years (he was driving an old VW beetle) -- without the seatbelt
he's have been killed outright.

That's how my grandmother died. They hit a bus on that same road
(rt 4, right after it had opened) and of course that was before
seatbelts. The bus had crossed over the line and they hit head-on.

And she wasn't killed outright, her spleen was ruptured. It took
her a while to die. With a seatbelt she would have survived I
suspect.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 15 Jan 2005 11:29:59 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Bernd
says...

How many times have you pulled up to a four way stop and not given the
other driver a thought that he/she might not stop.

Drive a motorcycle. Then come talk to me.

YOu do that every time then. YOu check to see if they're going
to stop at *any* stop sign. You check to see if they're going
to stop at red lights. YOu check to see that they're driving
on their side of the line. You check everything.

Jim

Since you ride (I don't), I assume you've seen this.

http://www.clarity.net/~adam/hurt-report.html

Pete Keillor

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
On 14 Jan 2005 19:52:38 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:


(...)

Sorry, but the odds are firmly in favor of seatbelts.

-- Bruce --

Bruce, I think Jim was observing that during one of these
conversations, someone will almost inevitably make an assertion that
is unsupported, incorrect, dangerous and a little irritating.

The thread had continued with supported, correct, safe and edifying
stories for several entries. I think the suspense was a little
too much for Jim...

He was using a form of humor intended to elicit a laugh and lighten the
load of everyday existence.

It made me chuckle, anyway.

--Winston

On 15 Jan 2005 11:29:59 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Bernd
says...

How many times have you pulled up to a four way stop and not given the
other driver a thought that he/she might not stop.

Drive a motorcycle. Then come talk to me.

YOu do that every time then. YOu check to see if they're going
to stop at *any* stop sign. You check to see if they're going
to stop at red lights. YOu check to see that they're driving
on their side of the line. You check everything.

Jim

And you listen to the "little voice" and pay it very close attention.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bernd
says...

How many times have you pulled up to a four way stop and not given the
other driver a thought that he/she might not stop.

Drive a motorcycle. Then come talk to me.

YOu do that every time then. YOu check to see if they're going
to stop at *any* stop sign. You check to see if they're going
to stop at red lights. YOu check to see that they're driving
on their side of the line. You check everything.

Jim

I guess that's why I haven't tried a motorcycle. I always wanted one but
like you said above. I get weary of be a defensive driver after a while
and become an offensive driver. ;-)

Bernd

"JD" wrote in message
oups.com...
And, to address another poster or two he Yeah, I sure have and
continue to practice driving under less than ideal conditions, and
find
myself a much better driver for it. Learning to drive on ice though,
isn't gonna save you when some ****head plows into your rear end at a
stoplight, as has happened to me.

I always leave enough room to get out of the way of some ****head that
might hit me in thr rear end. I automatically watch in the rear view as
I come to a stop to see if that ****head behind is going to stop.

It's also not gonna save you from
the bonehead who makes a left turn across three lanes of traffic (that
time he came off worse than I did).

I'd say your reaction time is slow. Three lanes should have been more
than enough time to react. Pay attention to your driving.

And if you think being 'thrown
free' is likely safer than staying confined within a safety cage,
well,
either you haven't really thought about it, or your thinking processes
are defective.

It's a 50/50 chance. Like to gamble? I do everytime I leave the house
with my vehicle and come up against somebody like you. I've been driving
for over 40 years and only wiped out one car. Hit a tree going backwards
at 50 mph in a VW and walked away from it. So far I beat the odds. Ya, I
know my luck is going to run out someday. Maybe it'll be taking you out
as go.

If you did that today, your kids would probably sue you.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

carl mciver wrote:

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
...
| Please - Wear your seatbelts, every single time you get in a car.
|
| They were installed for your own good. Even if you don't like the
| mandatory seatbelt laws. Even if you write a combative "Letters To
| The Editor" opinion editorial railing against them, and insisting you
| will not wear them.
|

When my adolescent boys were much younger one decided to join with his
brother in protesting the seat belt rule. We were in the driveway. One was
standing up in the back seat of our super cab truck, with the other one
standing on the front seat, leaning over into the back. Obviously I wasn't
getting my point across, so I put the truck in drive, tapped the gas then
stomped on the brake. Moved about four feet. I said "hold on" when I tapped
the gas, which is more courtesy than you get in traffic. The one in the
front seat smacked his head on the windshield, winding up on the floor, and
the one in the back flipped into the front seat after hitting his head on
the back window. Screamed bloody murder, but I got my point across. Never
had the issue come up again, and the peer pressure does the job now that
there's four kids.
Of course, many of us grew up in much looser seatbelt laws, so mine and
older generations are usually the gripers, not the ones who grew up with
shoulder belts, car seats, and air bags "all their lives."



--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bernd
says...

How many times have you pulled up to a four way stop and not given the
other driver a thought that he/she might not stop.

Drive a motorcycle. Then come talk to me.

YOu do that every time then. YOu check to see if they're going
to stop at *any* stop sign. You check to see if they're going
to stop at red lights. YOu check to see that they're driving
on their side of the line. You check everything.

Jim

That is, if you want to stay alive. A bit of motorcycle experience is a very
powerful lesson in defensive driving. It really sharpens your attention.
Assuming you live through it, of course.

--
Ed Huntress

In article
,
"B.B." u wrote:

In article ,
Nick Hull wrote:

[...]

Interesting anecdote, but it lacks the scientific big picture. Sure you
can find many people who are saved on one accident due to seat belts,
but no comprehensive scientific test has ever been done. In England,
for example, they found that seat belts saved drivers and there were
more pedestrians run over because the driver felt invulnerable. How
many people would be saved if a reckless driver died in his first
accident rather than surviving to wreck again?

I'm 66 and have been in 2 bad accidents, neither with seat belts. The
first was before seat belts were invented and the other was on a
motorcycle. The #1 method of avoiding injury is to avoid accidents. I
am not in favor of the driver wearing a seat belt, I would prefer to
have all the passengers protected and the driver unprotected.

Sounds clever, but I wouldn't really favor it. My one accident was
caused by another driver not checking her blind spot and just coming
over and hitting me. Her big-assed Ford pickup knocked my tiny Toyota
into a concrete barricade. I was wrapped around a slab of concrete and
she had only a dent in her passenger door. Without belts I'd be dead
and she'd be free to go kill again.
OTOH your plan might work if all cars were the same size.

Nothing's 100% fair but if scientific methods were used we could find a
system that worked better on the average.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Carl
Hoffmeyer says...

My father was driving on rte 4 in N.J. (the *infamous* rte 4) -- clear,
sunny Spring day -- run full tilt into a car stopped dead in the highway.

He put his face into the windshield and had hamburger for a mug for a
couple of years (he was driving an old VW beetle) -- without the seatbelt
he's have been killed outright.

That's how my grandmother died. They hit a bus on that same road
(rt 4, right after it had opened) and of course that was before
seatbelts. The bus had crossed over the line and they hit head-on.

And she wasn't killed outright, her spleen was ruptured. It took
her a while to die. With a seatbelt she would have survived I
suspect.

Jim

There are people I've known who I wish could have been watching from the
side of the road one day in January 1971, when I was driving a '67 Bronco
and got into a head-on collision with a Pontiac Grand Prix. I was wearing a
seat belt. I was the one who ran and yelled for an ambulance. I bled all
over hell but I was still standing.

The other guy didn't have a seatbelt. Like your grandmother, he had a
ruptured spleen. And a concussion. And a broken leg. He was bleeding from
his face and neck like a stuck pig. He barely made it. Just barely.

--
Ed Huntress

In article ,
"Bernd" wrote:

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bernd
says...

How many times have you pulled up to a four way stop and not given the
other driver a thought that he/she might not stop.

Drive a motorcycle. Then come talk to me.

YOu do that every time then. YOu check to see if they're going
to stop at *any* stop sign. You check to see if they're going
to stop at red lights. YOu check to see that they're driving
on their side of the line. You check everything.

Jim

I guess that's why I haven't tried a motorcycle. I always wanted one but
like you said above. I get weary of be a defensive driver after a while
and become an offensive driver. ;-)

On a motorcycle you are in essence an invisible driver. You always have
to assume no one even sees you.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:58:24 GMT, "Bernd" wrote:


"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bernd
says...

How many times have you pulled up to a four way stop and not given the
other driver a thought that he/she might not stop.

Drive a motorcycle. Then come talk to me.

YOu do that every time then. YOu check to see if they're going
to stop at *any* stop sign. You check to see if they're going
to stop at red lights. YOu check to see that they're driving
on their side of the line. You check everything.

Jim

I guess that's why I haven't tried a motorcycle. I always wanted one but
like you said above. I get weary of be a defensive driver after a while
and become an offensive driver. ;-)

Bernd

You know what they call an motorcycle operator that drives
offensively?

Road kill.


Gunner



"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

In article , Gunner says...

You know what they call an motorcycle operator that drives
offensively?

Road kill.

It's a fine line. Actually it seems to me that I have the
worst problems when I start out on my ride, saying that
I'm not in a rush, and to take it easy.

There's a certain amount of agressive defense, one might
say, that's needed. I know it sounds paradoxical but being
a rider yourself you probably know what I mean.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Ed Huntress says...

... You check everything.

That is, if you want to stay alive. A bit of motorcycle experience is a very
powerful lesson in defensive driving. It really sharpens your attention.
Assuming you live through it, of course.

I've been riding (commuting, mostly) since 1981. Some of this
was in the boston metropolitan area.

I've always wanted to start an insurance agency to insure
a certain class of car drivers: that subset who also
hold motorcycle licenses.

I figure they're probably under-represented in car accidents
because of their m/c skills.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Winston says...

He was using a form of humor intended to elicit a laugh and lighten the
load of everyday existence.

Well, I caught *one* anyway. g

There's *always* somebody who pipes up with the
third-hand story about the wreck with the hook
in the door handle.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Ed Huntress says...

... You check everything.

That is, if you want to stay alive. A bit of motorcycle experience is a
very
powerful lesson in defensive driving. It really sharpens your attention.
Assuming you live through it, of course.

I've been riding (commuting, mostly) since 1981. Some of this
was in the boston metropolitan area.

I've always wanted to start an insurance agency to insure
a certain class of car drivers: that subset who also
hold motorcycle licenses.

I figure they're probably under-represented in car accidents
because of their m/c skills.

Jim

That's an interesting idea. I'm going to ask my insurance man if there are
any stats on it, if I can remember to do so.

--
Ed Huntress

On 15 Jan 2005 16:25:31 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress says...

... You check everything.

That is, if you want to stay alive. A bit of motorcycle experience is a very
powerful lesson in defensive driving. It really sharpens your attention.
Assuming you live through it, of course.

I've been riding (commuting, mostly) since 1981. Some of this
was in the boston metropolitan area.

I've always wanted to start an insurance agency to insure
a certain class of car drivers: that subset who also
hold motorcycle licenses.

I figure they're probably under-represented in car accidents
because of their m/c skills.

Jim

I remember the Cycle magazine interviewer asking Hurt (the author of
the report I referenced) whether any of his personal riding habits had
changed. He said he no longer rode on freeways at night. If you go
down and separate from your bike, your only chance was to come up
running at 55 mph (I guess that'd be 85 now) in the right direction.

The report sticks in my mind because I thought his methodology and
conclusions were top notch.

Pete Keillor

Ed Huntress wrote:

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...

In article ,

Bernd

says...


How many times have you pulled up to a four way stop and not given the
other driver a thought that he/she might not stop.

Drive a motorcycle. Then come talk to me.

YOu do that every time then. YOu check to see if they're going
to stop at *any* stop sign. You check to see if they're going
to stop at red lights. YOu check to see that they're driving
on their side of the line. You check everything.

Jim


That is, if you want to stay alive. A bit of motorcycle experience is a very
powerful lesson in defensive driving. It really sharpens your attention.
Assuming you live through it, of course.

Ditto for bicycling. If anything you're even more invisible than on a
motorcycle, and you can't hit the throttle to accelerate away from a
problem.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

In rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat, 15 Jan 2005 19:49:08 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:
"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
I've always wanted to start an insurance agency to insure
a certain class of car drivers: that subset who also
hold motorcycle licenses.

I figure they're probably under-represented in car accidents
because of their m/c skills.

That's an interesting idea. I'm going to ask my insurance man if there are
any stats on it, if I can remember to do so.

There are.

From Britain, where a survey done showed that dual licence holders were
vastly under-represented in car crashes.

(I don't like the term "car accident", they ain't no such animal...)

I can't find the reference to it, it might be on
www.roadsafety.mccofnsw.org.au but their DNS is down, so that site's off
air.


Zebee

In rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:21:58 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

The other guy didn't have a seatbelt. Like your grandmother, he had a
ruptured spleen. And a concussion. And a broken leg. He was bleeding from
his face and neck like a stuck pig. He barely made it. Just barely.


Seatbelts are compulsory in Australia, have been for many years.

Didn't stop people who had been driving before the law change from not
using the things though.

Way back when I was a little tacker, I had absorbed, as kids do, the
roadsafety messages they pushed at school, and I knew it was important
to have the belt on.

So I remember one day really hassling Dad to put his on. Whined and
nagged the way only small kids can.

So he did... And drove out the hobby farm gate and away.

Mum and I left about 20 mins later, came around a bend less than 1km
from the gate and there was a car in the ditch! "That's funny" said
Mum, "Why didn't Brian stop to help?"

You can guess why.

He'd failed to take the corner, no idea why. The car had speared off
the road, down a small embankment, hit a rock with its nose, and flipped
forward onto its back. He was hanging from his seatbelt, glass from the
smashed screen all over the place and in the arm thrown up to protect
his face.

Give him credit, he didn't need to be nagged after that.

Zebee

"Zebee Johnstone" wrote in message
...
In rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat, 15 Jan 2005 19:49:08 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:
"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
I've always wanted to start an insurance agency to insure
a certain class of car drivers: that subset who also
hold motorcycle licenses.

I figure they're probably under-represented in car accidents
because of their m/c skills.

That's an interesting idea. I'm going to ask my insurance man if there
are
any stats on it, if I can remember to do so.

There are.

From Britain, where a survey done showed that dual licence holders were
vastly under-represented in car crashes.

(I don't like the term "car accident", they ain't no such animal...)

I can't find the reference to it, it might be on
www.roadsafety.mccofnsw.org.au but their DNS is down, so that site's off
air.


Zebee

Veddy interesting. Jim may have a good idea for that insurance company,
then. Seriously.

--
Ed Huntress