"Zebee Johnstone" wrote in message
...

So I remember one day really hassling Dad to put his on. Whined and
nagged the way only small kids can.

So he did... And drove out the hobby farm gate and away.

Mum and I left about 20 mins later, came around a bend less than 1km
from the gate and there was a car in the ditch! "That's funny" said
Mum, "Why didn't Brian stop to help?"

You can guess why.

He'd failed to take the corner, no idea why. The car had speared off
the road, down a small embankment, hit a rock with its nose, and flipped
forward onto its back. He was hanging from his seatbelt, glass from the
smashed screen all over the place and in the arm thrown up to protect
his face.

Give him credit, he didn't need to be nagged after that.

Zebee

Wow. Not only did you probably save his life, but you got an exceptionally
powerful lesson, at a fortunately young age, about the value of using mature
and responsible judgment. I'll bet that's stayed with you in other ways over
the years, no?

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 18:47:51 -0800, the inscrutable "Lane" lane (no
spam) at copperaccents dot com spake:

I cannot understand anyone who doesn't want to wear a seatbelt. My vehicles
don't move without everyone being buckled up.

Ditto here. My insurance company increases the medical coverage
for belted occupants of my vehicles. Belts have saved me several
times, all from having better control of the brakes and/or wheel.
I'm sold.

But I think it's assinine for the gov't to waste $138 million on
awareness. Just have the folks sign a paper when they buy the car
(new or used): If your seatbelt is fastened when you get in an
accident, you will be allowed into the hospital. If not, too bad,
you can't be admitted.

No belt, no insurance or hospitalization.
It's your life. Do with it as you will, but don't ask others to pay
for it. Ditto drunk drivers, eh? It's a self-correcting policy.


================================================== ========
I drank WHAT? + http://www.diversify.com
--Socrates + Web Application Programming

In article ,
Zebee Johnstone wrote:

(I don't like the term "car accident", they ain't no such animal...)

Sure there is: a parked Yugo. Moving, it's a "car disaster."

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/

In article , Ed Huntress says...

My son's driving test is on Jan. 28th. I have my fingers crossed. He's been
very good in his student driving, and in about 6 months with me, but this
is, after all, New Jersey.

Hmm. My daugher is due to get her permit in a month in NY.

I feel the same way you do. I wish I hadn't sold that '68
chevy biscayne.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 15 Jan 2005 16:21:25 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

You know what they call an motorcycle operator that drives
offensively?

Road kill.

It's a fine line. Actually it seems to me that I have the
worst problems when I start out on my ride, saying that
I'm not in a rush, and to take it easy.

You are welcome to use it as a sig. I give the rights to humanity.

There's a certain amount of agressive defense, one might
say, that's needed. I know it sounds paradoxical but being
a rider yourself you probably know what I mean.

Jim

Oh yes I indeed do know. And as you say...its hard to
explain...closest thing I can think of is walking point..be ready to
not only duck and dive, but attack and go forwards

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

lololol

--
A happy kid behind the wheel of a 98 Mustang GT
Cold air intake
FRPP 3.73 gears
Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter
Flowmaster 40 Series mufflers (self-installed woohoo)
Hi-speed fan switch
255/60R-15 rear tires
Subframe connectors
Aluminum adjustable clutch quadrant


"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article ,
B.B.
says...

He managed to get in his truck and move it in time, but it sure was
fun to watch him scramble over the gate, trip on the tracks and throw a
fit trying to get the door open. The train blasting its horn and
screeching along the tracks probably made him **** his pants a few times
in the process.

He was probably too busy talking on his cell phone to notice
the sign.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

I watch people behind me at every stop too.... I am *paranoid* about that.
One of my biggest fears is to be rear-ended actually... probably b/c it
hasn't happened yet & I'm afraid it's gonna.

"Maybe it'll be taking you out as go." ---Asshole remark??

-Mike

--
A happy kid behind the wheel of a 98 Mustang GT
Cold air intake
FRPP 3.73 gears
Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter
Flowmaster 40 Series mufflers (self-installed woohoo)
Hi-speed fan switch
255/60R-15 rear tires
Subframe connectors
Aluminum adjustable clutch quadrant


"Bernd" wrote in message
...

"JD" wrote in message
oups.com...
And, to address another poster or two he Yeah, I sure have and
continue to practice driving under less than ideal conditions, and
find
myself a much better driver for it. Learning to drive on ice though,
isn't gonna save you when some ****head plows into your rear end at a
stoplight, as has happened to me.

I always leave enough room to get out of the way of some ****head that
might hit me in thr rear end. I automatically watch in the rear view as
I come to a stop to see if that ****head behind is going to stop.

It's also not gonna save you from
the bonehead who makes a left turn across three lanes of traffic (that
time he came off worse than I did).

I'd say your reaction time is slow. Three lanes should have been more
than enough time to react. Pay attention to your driving.

And if you think being 'thrown
free' is likely safer than staying confined within a safety cage,
well,
either you haven't really thought about it, or your thinking processes
are defective.

It's a 50/50 chance. Like to gamble? I do everytime I leave the house
with my vehicle and come up against somebody like you. I've been driving
for over 40 years and only wiped out one car. Hit a tree going backwards
at 50 mph in a VW and walked away from it. So far I beat the odds. Ya, I
know my luck is going to run out someday. Maybe it'll be taking you out
as go.

In rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat, 15 Jan 2005 20:45:19 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

Wow. Not only did you probably save his life, but you got an exceptionally
powerful lesson, at a fortunately young age, about the value of using mature
and responsible judgment. I'll bet that's stayed with you in other ways over
the years, no?

I'm not sure what effect it had on me, except to make me sure seatbelts
were a good thing!

I think it mainly taught me that **** *can* happen, and so small
inconveniences that prevent large consequences are best put up with.

Mind you, I wear an open face helmet, and still do so despite a crash
which scarred my face and lost me 3 teeth. I find it funny that people
who ride motorcycles - and thus have a statistically high chance of
serious injury that the best safety gear in the world won't save 'em
from - go ape at me about it...

The helmet choice is because the comfort and good feeling (I feel a bit
claustrophobic in fullface lids) is worth more to me than the possible
consequences, especially as in a long and varied career of falling off
motorcycles my head has only hit the ground twice. So I feel the reward
is worth the risk.

I am not sure how my decision is different to my father's except that
last bit about experience of crashes. He wasn't the world's best driver
but I think he had fewer failures than I did in my first few years of
biking!

Zebee

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:04:39 -0600, "B.B."
u wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus14690 wrote:

I had a collision with a train once (no ****) and a seatbelt was very
helpful. I walked away with the car totaled, but some minor bruises
from the seatbelt. No, I was not drunk, I was not trying to ride
through the gate, etc, I simply did not notice the train. It was dark,
the crossing was unmarked, and at the time I did not realize that I in
fact needed eyeglasses. I hit it in the middle, luckily I hit a
railroad car carriage instead of going underneath the train. The train
was going slowly.

Heh. Here in Waco we've got a lot of train crossings, all diligently
labeled "Do not stop on tracks." The one I cross every day has a stop
sign just beyond, so four or five cars can stack up before the crossing.
I stopped behind the tracks because there was no room, and the clever
little **** behind me went around me and stopped in the gap, on the
tracks.
I honked, he gave me the finger. I honked a few more times, and he
got out to yell at me. Once he got to my window to start yelling I
pointed down the tracks to the train that was coming. About the time
that he turned around the gates came down.
He managed to get in his truck and move it in time, but it sure was
fun to watch him scramble over the gate, trip on the tracks and throw a
fit trying to get the door open. The train blasting its horn and
screeching along the tracks probably made him **** his pants a few times
in the process.
People still stop on those tracks every day. Speaking of Darwin, we
need to speed those trains up a little. (:

Darn, Missed... ;-P

That woulda taught him if he turned around just in time to see his
precious car getting T-boned by a train and tossed off in the
distance...

Unfortunately, the School Bus it got tossed into wouldn't agree that
it was a good thing. And train engineers dread stupid crap like that
- they can't do a thing about a vehicle obstruction on the tracks
except throw the brakes into Emergency and lean on the horn, and
wrecks haunt them for years no matter whether or not anyone was hurt.

In a tie between a 2-ton car and a 750,000 ton train - You Lose.
You can roll those dice 5 Million times, it still comes up snake-eyes.

Hell, I make a conscious effort - I don't even stop on CLOSED train
tracks. Even when they've chopped off the rails at the curb line and
put Used Car Lots on the vacant land on each side. I just don't want
to get used to the idea of EVER stopping on the tracks.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:18:30 GMT, "Bernd" wrote:
"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
.. .

Please - Wear your seatbelts, every single time you get in a car.
Because your words might come back four months later to haunt you in
your afterlife. The writer of that article was recently killed as a
passenger in a completely survivable single-vehicle rollover accident
- he was ejected and killed, the driver and another passenger were
treated for "non-life-threatening injuries."

http://www.journalstar.com/articles/...9784029686.txt

The whole accident could have been avoided. First of all the guy driving
was 21yrs. old, the road was iciy and they would not comment on the
speed. I'd be willing to bet that they were not driving at a save speed
for conditions. In order for that vehicle to roll several times they had
to be going quite fast. Also drivers today should go on a skid pad and
learn how there vehicle proforms in a skid. This kid probably never had
the **** scraed out of him when his vehicle got out of control brfore
this incident.

Nuff Said. Condolences to his family.

Needless to say, anyone who gets into any vehicle I'm driving who
doesn't want to buckle up, they can damned well get out and walk. The
car's not moving till you do - because as the driver I am responsible
for your safety, and I take it seriously.

I probably wouldn't get in the car with you anyway.

With well over a million miles of safe driving under my belt with no
big smashups, and the few small ones I was found not at fault in -
Yeah, I wouldn't drive with me if I were you either, I'm way overdue.
;-)

I'd be willing to
bet you've never taken your car into a snowy "EMPTY" parking lot and did
some slides and spins just to see how the car would handle. With all
those safety devices that cars have today it gives people like you a
very secure feeling doesn't it?. It makes you more dangerous on the road
than a guy who knows he can get killed weather having all those safety
devices or not.

Well, you're just a teensy bit right - in snow, no I haven't, in Los
Angeles snow is a rare commodity. Mud, Sand, pouring rain (natural
skidpad conditions), Youbetcha I've practiced, and lots of times.

Powerslide driving practice in my Odyssey FL350 and borrowed ATV's,
many hours. And I went and threw my old '62 Scout around for fun, too
- but not the Land Cruiser, I was still making car payments when I
took that one off-roading, and that financial Sword of Damocles tends
to instill a small bit of responsibility...

How many times have you pulled up to a four way stop and not given the
other driver a thought that he/she might not stop. I think about that
everytime.

I think about that every day. I live near an elementary school, and
a good 50% of the drivers don't stop at the 4-way Stops around the
school, except /maybe/ during school hours when there's heavy traffic
- At night, roughly 5% don't even slow down at all, just zoom through
at 45 in a posted 30. Hell, I can practically smell 'em coming.

How about the person that pulls out of their driveway
backwards, which by the way is against the law when backing into a main
highway, have you thought do they see me, will they stop. Being aware of
your surroundings while driving is important, more so than all those
safety devices that give you a nice warm and fuzzy feeling.

The govt. tells you you need to wear seatbelts today, tomorrow it'll be
what color underwear you've got to wear, all in the name of safety. BTW,
you will wear "safety yellow" underwear when driving. :-)

And we cross over from the sublime to the ridiculous.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

In article , Zebee Johnstone says...

The helmet choice is because the comfort and good feeling (I feel a bit
claustrophobic in fullface lids) is worth more to me than the possible
consequences, especially as in a long and varied career of falling off
motorcycles my head has only hit the ground twice. So I feel the reward
is worth the risk.

Oddly that's *why* I wear a full face helmet. Comfort and good
feeling. Riding home from work in an open face helmet in 40F
rain has taught me that a FF is actually quite comfortable...
they're also a good deal quieter than the old Bell open face
that I used to use.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Oddly that's *why* I wear a full face helmet. Comfort and good
feeling. Riding home from work in an open face helmet in 40F
rain has taught me that a FF is actually quite comfortable...
they're also a good deal quieter than the old Bell open face
that I used to use.

I'm with you on that. I prefer a full-face for keeping the wind off my
face. Perhaps I will see you out there one day (I'm also in NJ, Bergen
County), and ride a BMW F650GS.

"Zebee Johnstone" wrote in message
...

The helmet choice is because the comfort and good feeling (I feel a bit
claustrophobic in fullface lids) is worth more to me than the possible
consequences, especially as in a long and varied career of falling off
motorcycles my head has only hit the ground twice. So I feel the reward
is worth the risk.

Zebee, I think we see the world in the same way. Stupid risks are just
stupid. Risks for which we've gauged the reward, and decided it's worth it,
are what living is all about.

I find myself taking fewer of them since I passed 50, however. That may be a
common pattern. But once I pass 70, it's Katie Bar the Doors...

--
Ed Huntress

In article .com, JD says...

Oddly that's *why* I wear a full face helmet. Comfort and good
feeling. Riding home from work in an open face helmet in 40F
rain has taught me that a FF is actually quite comfortable...
they're also a good deal quieter than the old Bell open face
that I used to use.

I'm with you on that. I prefer a full-face for keeping the wind off my
face. Perhaps I will see you out there one day (I'm also in NJ, Bergen
County), and ride a BMW F650GS.

You might see me on my way to visit my folks in Closter, I tend
to run along the pallisades parkway. Though sometimes I feel like
going the slow route, and take the road through piermont, grandview,
nyack, and onto 9W. The old road so to speak.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

You're happy that somebody died? Wow....

-Mike

--
A happy kid behind the wheel of a 98 Mustang GT
Cold air intake
FRPP 3.73 gears
Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter
Flowmaster 40 Series mufflers (self-installed woohoo)
Hi-speed fan switch
255/60R-15 rear tires
Subframe connectors
Aluminum adjustable clutch quadrant


"gcash" wrote in message ...
Peter T. Keillor III writes:

http://www.clarity.net/~adam/hurt-report.html

Oh yes, that's the most famous study in bikes. It was done in the '70s and
it's a shame we can't get something done like that today, with a similar
depth.

However, about the only difference is sportbikes are a little more
powerful.

And "invincible" SUV drivers.

On the other hand, I did see recently where a bike killed a SUV driver
that
pulled out on him. Made my heart all warm and stuff. Plus there was
another
SUV driver that flipped off an interstate exit. Yay. One less stupid
driver
out there to threaten me.

Personally, I took out the driver's husband in a Subaru once, but then she
shouldn't have pulled out in front of me.

-gc

--
Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and
cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing
the
same thing to them at funerals.

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
news
On 14 Jan 2005 19:52:38 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:
In article , no spam says...

Seat belts saved my hide (and probably my life) once. I bought a 51 Chev
pickup many moons ago and the first thing I did was install seatbelts. A
week later I was hit almost head on. The little Datsun that hit me was
totaled and the lady went to the hospital. My truck rolled over on its
side
and I climbed out without a scratch. I'm sure I'd have been a lot worse
off
without that seatbelt.

I cannot understand anyone who doesn't want to wear a seatbelt. My
vehicles
don't move without everyone being buckled up.

Well *somebody* has to do this, it may as well be me.

"My brother-in-laws cousin knew this guy one time who was
out driving.

This is referred to as "Friend Of A Friend". In other words, not a
reliable citation, as there is no way to either independently verify
or debunk the story.

He didn't have his seatbelt on, and large
truck came around an icy curve on night, and smashed into him
head-on. Because he wasn't wearing his seatbelt, he was
thrown free of the wreck and landed in a bunch of hay
bales right before the car careened off a cliff, flipped
over, and exploded at the bottom of the hill.

Now the funny think is, that exact same crash happened
a year later, but the driver (not my brother-in-laws
cousins friend of course) *was* wearing his seatbelt
and wound up in the wrecked burned car at the bottom
of the ravine.

Of course the coroner found that the driver had been
clawing at the jammed release latch when they took
the body away."

There. I feel better now.

For what? Spreading an old campfire scary story? ;-)

Next thing, you'll say they found a bloody hook hanging from the
door handle...

Modern seatbelt latches take a lot of abuse before they jam. And a
semi-conscious person might claw at the latch, but wouldn't be able to
do anything about getting out and away even if they did get it open.

Sorry, but the odds are firmly in favor of seatbelts.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

I beleive in seatbelt BUT, in a 92 sidekick, that was 7 years old I slid
off the road going a great total of 20 Kmh ( somewhere around 15Mph). I let
go of the wheel( didn't want to sprain my wrists, and at that speed..) and
when I hit the other side of the ditch the F$#King belt released.

Now in my Kia sportage(2000) the belt releases on a regular basis. You have
to check the release button, it doesn't always come all the way up.

In Ontario, ( in Canada infact) you are not allowed to put better seatbelts
in a road licensed car.

When I was 14 I rolled my first car, I was stuck upside down all my weight
on the belt, it wouldn't release. That said if I didn't have it on I'd
likely by in a wheel chair. First person on the scene explained that I'd
have to take some weight off the belt.

Don't trust the seatbelts, they can help but...

"Maybe it'll be taking you out as go." ---Asshole remark??

-Mike

Yes it is an Asshole remark. Haven't you ever screwed with people to see
what kind of reaction you get out of them. Would I actually do something
like that? NO. I would try to avoid it at all cost.
But I did get a reaction out of you thought.

Bernd

jim rozen wrote:

Oddly that's *why* I wear a full face helmet. Comfort and good
feeling. Riding home from work in an open face helmet in 40F
rain has taught me that a FF is actually quite comfortable...
they're also a good deal quieter than the old Bell open face
that I used to use.

Plus much better protection from flying things. I was riding home late
one night on the freeway. Never saw it coming, but something very large
hit my goggles and pushed the lens right out of the frame. Felt like
someone had slapped me but good. Whatever it was, it's guts were yellow,
and blocked almost all my vision. Took but a second to yank the goggles
off by the strap. Right after that I got a full face. Had that bug hit a
few inches lower it probably would have split my lip (and left a -bad-
taste in my mouth...G)

Jon

In article ,
jim rozen wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress says...

My son's driving test is on Jan. 28th. I have my fingers crossed. He's been
very good in his student driving, and in about 6 months with me, but this
is, after all, New Jersey.

Hmm. My daugher is due to get her permit in a month in NY.

I feel the same way you do. I wish I hadn't sold that '68
chevy biscayne.

I thought that way too, until my wife let my daughter take my 66
Chrysler. Built like a tank, she still totaled it and her face on the
2nd trip. Do not let your daughter drive without an airbag, it will
save thousands in face reconstruction.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

Hehheeheh

--
A happy kid behind the wheel of a 98 Mustang GT
Cold air intake
FRPP 3.73 gears
Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter
Flowmaster 40 Series mufflers (self-installed woohoo)
Hi-speed fan switch
255/60R-15 rear tires
Subframe connectors
Aluminum adjustable clutch quadrant


"Bernd" wrote in message
...
"Maybe it'll be taking you out as go." ---Asshole remark??

-Mike

Yes it is an Asshole remark. Haven't you ever screwed with people to see
what kind of reaction you get out of them. Would I actually do something
like that? NO. I would try to avoid it at all cost.
But I did get a reaction out of you thought.

Bernd

Pat Ford wrote:



[snip]


Now in my Kia sportage(2000) the belt releases on a regular basis. You have
to check the release button, it doesn't always come all the way up.

Sorta fits my (admittedly biased) view of the Kia



In Ontario, ( in Canada infact) you are not allowed to put better seatbelts
in a road licensed car.

Laws are crafted (if that is the proper word) by politicians. You get what you
pay for.



When I was 14 I rolled my first car, I was stuck upside down all my weight
on the belt, it wouldn't release. That said if I didn't have it on I'd
likely by in a wheel chair. First person on the scene explained that I'd
have to take some weight off the belt.

Don't trust the seatbelts, they can help but...

Three years ago (this week) a good friend was driving back to Alabama after
visiting a bunch of us for our "Twelfth Night" celebration (SCAdians know what
this is). He locked the brakes trying to avoid a deer, on a wet road west of
Atlanta, and flipped the car. His seat belt held him in place, but since he was
very large (very), his weight prevented him from releasing the buckle, and he
suffocated before help arrived.

Every safeguard seems to present its own set of problems.

Joe

In rec.crafts.metalworking on 16 Jan 2005 15:13:12 -0800
jim rozen wrote:
In article , Zebee Johnstone says...

The helmet choice is because the comfort and good feeling (I feel a bit
claustrophobic in fullface lids) is worth more to me than the possible
consequences, especially as in a long and varied career of falling off
motorcycles my head has only hit the ground twice. So I feel the reward
is worth the risk.

Oddly that's *why* I wear a full face helmet. Comfort and good
feeling. Riding home from work in an open face helmet in 40F
rain has taught me that a FF is actually quite comfortable...
they're also a good deal quieter than the old Bell open face
that I used to use.

Heh... the advantages of living in a country where "winter" is "the sun
doesn't shine for as many hours".

I admit rain in the face in an openface is annoying, but that's why I
have a throat-coat.

Zebee

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:20:09 -0500, Nick Hull
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

And your scientific method quuotes that more peedestrains are killed
because of seatbelts?

It may be true, but really is a red herring, IMO.

IIRC, in West Oz, something like 2/3 of all people killed in car
accidents over the Christmas break were not wearing seatbelts. At
least half seems to be the common figure, especially in the country.

But of course this only shows that people who do _not_ wear seatbelts
feel invulnerable and drive badly....

Nothing's 100% fair but if scientific methods were used we could find a
system that worked better on the average.

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:04:39 -0600, "B.B."
u vaguely proposed
a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I reckon _that's_ when he really showed just how thick he was......
G

He managed to get in his truck and move it in time, but it sure was
fun to watch him scramble over the gate,

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:56:33 -0500, Joe wrote:



Pat Ford wrote:



[snip]


Now in my Kia sportage(2000) the belt releases on a regular basis. You have
to check the release button, it doesn't always come all the way up.

Sorta fits my (admittedly biased) view of the Kia



In Ontario, ( in Canada infact) you are not allowed to put better seatbelts
in a road licensed car.

Laws are crafted (if that is the proper word) by politicians. You get what you
pay for.



When I was 14 I rolled my first car, I was stuck upside down all my weight
on the belt, it wouldn't release. That said if I didn't have it on I'd
likely by in a wheel chair. First person on the scene explained that I'd
have to take some weight off the belt.

Don't trust the seatbelts, they can help but...

Three years ago (this week) a good friend was driving back to Alabama after
visiting a bunch of us for our "Twelfth Night" celebration (SCAdians know what
this is). He locked the brakes trying to avoid a deer, on a wet road west of
Atlanta, and flipped the car. His seat belt held him in place, but since he was
very large (very), his weight prevented him from releasing the buckle, and he
suffocated before help arrived.

Every safeguard seems to present its own set of problems.

Joe

This is one of the reasons one should carry a good sharp partially
serrated lockback knife. Goes through seatbelt material like ****
through a seagull

Gunner

"Gunner, you are the same ridiculous liberal f--k you ever where."
Scipio

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:56:33 -0500, Joe wrote:



Pat Ford wrote:



[snip]


Now in my Kia sportage(2000) the belt releases on a regular basis. You
have
to check the release button, it doesn't always come all the way up.


KIA: Killed In Action.

Very poor (and disrespectful) choice for a brand name.

....however appropriate.

--
Jeff R.

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:38:01 +1100, "Jeff R."
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:56:33 -0500, Joe wrote:



Pat Ford wrote:



[snip]


Now in my Kia sportage(2000) the belt releases on a regular basis. You
have
to check the release button, it doesn't always come all the way up.


KIA: Killed In Action.

Very poor (and disrespectful) choice for a brand name.

...however appropriate.

Im reminded of the old Nova, which didnt sell very well in spanish
speaking countries as loosely translated, it means "No Go"

Gunner

"Gunner, you are the same ridiculous liberal f--k you ever where."
Scipio

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:38:01 +1100, "Jeff R."
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:56:33 -0500, Joe wrote:



Pat Ford wrote:



[snip]


Now in my Kia sportage(2000) the belt releases on a regular basis.
You
have
to check the release button, it doesn't always come all the way up.


KIA: Killed In Action.

Very poor (and disrespectful) choice for a brand name.

...however appropriate.

Im reminded of the old Nova, which didnt sell very well in spanish
speaking countries as loosely translated, it means "No Go"

Gunner

"Gunner, you are the same ridiculous liberal f--k you ever where."
Scipio

"Jeff R." wrote in message
...

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:38:01 +1100, "Jeff R."
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:56:33 -0500, Joe wrote:



Pat Ford wrote:



[snip]


Now in my Kia sportage(2000) the belt releases on a regular basis.
You
have
to check the release button, it doesn't always come all the way up.


KIA: Killed In Action.

Very poor (and disrespectful) choice for a brand name.

...however appropriate.

Im reminded of the old Nova, which didnt sell very well in spanish
speaking countries as loosely translated, it means "No Go"

Gunner

Ooops. Brain fart. Now I'll include the text:

Then there's my favourite one - don't know if you have the Mitsubishi
"Pajero" (medium sized 4WD) in the US, but - there's a long-standing urban
myth that Pajero = (how do I put this delicately) ummm, a "gentleman who
is morbidly occupied with onanism".

That's one I can't verify, but would love to.

Language, again, is reputedly Spanish, but none of my real sources agree -
which they wouldn't, if it is colloquial.

--
Jeff R.

In article ,
says...

"Jeff R." wrote in message
...

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:38:01 +1100, "Jeff R."
wrote:

Im reminded of the old Nova, which didnt sell very well in spanish
speaking countries as loosely translated, it means "No Go"

Gunner

An old tale...
http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp


Ooops. Brain fart. Now I'll include the text:

Then there's my favourite one - don't know if you have the Mitsubishi
"Pajero" (medium sized 4WD) in the US, but - there's a long-standing urban
myth that Pajero = (how do I put this delicately) ummm, a "gentleman who
is morbidly occupied with onanism".

That's one I can't verify, but would love to.

Language, again, is reputedly Spanish, but none of my real sources agree -
which they wouldn't, if it is colloquial.

This one appears to be true.

http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/starion.asp

"On the other hand, given that at the same time Mitsubishi brought out
the Starion they also introduced a model with the rather unfortunate
name of "Pajero" (a word which in Spanish is a slang term for someone
who enjoys pleasuring himself, prompting Mitsubishi to judiciously
rename the car the "Montero" in some markets), it's sometimes hard to
believe they don't operate this way."

Ned Simmons

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"Jeff R." wrote in message
...

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:38:01 +1100, "Jeff R."
wrote:

Im reminded of the old Nova, which didnt sell very well in spanish
speaking countries as loosely translated, it means "No Go"

Gunner

An old tale...
http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp


Ooops. Brain fart. Now I'll include the text:

Then there's my favourite one - don't know if you have the Mitsubishi
"Pajero" (medium sized 4WD) in the US, but - there's a long-standing urban
myth that Pajero = (how do I put this delicately) ummm, a "gentleman who
is morbidly occupied with onanism".

That's one I can't verify, but would love to.

Language, again, is reputedly Spanish, but none of my real sources agree -
which they wouldn't, if it is colloquial.

This one appears to be true.

http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/starion.asp

"On the other hand, given that at the same time Mitsubishi brought out
the Starion they also introduced a model with the rather unfortunate
name of "Pajero" (a word which in Spanish is a slang term for someone
who enjoys pleasuring himself, prompting Mitsubishi to judiciously
rename the car the "Montero" in some markets), it's sometimes hard to
believe they don't operate this way."

Ned Simmons

Thanks for the link, Ned.
Finally - I feel vindicated!

--
Jeff R.

Greetings and Salutations....

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:53:56 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:


http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/starion.asp

"On the other hand, given that at the same time Mitsubishi brought out
the Starion they also introduced a model with the rather unfortunate
name of "Pajero" (a word which in Spanish is a slang term for someone
who enjoys pleasuring himself, prompting Mitsubishi to judiciously
rename the car the "Montero" in some markets), it's sometimes hard to
believe they don't operate this way."

Ned Simmons

Not to be overly pedantic, but, Onanism REALLY should not
refer to masterbation. In matter of fact, Onanism is premature
withdrawal during sex, to ensure that one's seman will not
be as likely to impregnate one's partner. It was, shall we say,
frowned upon by the powers that be. Here is the reference, from
Genesis 38

" 7 And Er *Onan's brother*, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the
sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.
8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother’s wife, and marry
her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass,
when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the
ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew
him also."

The custom was that if a man was killed before he could
have a son, his BROTHER would take the widow as his wife, and,
impregnate her. That child would then be raised as the *dead guy's*
offspring, not as the heir of the living brother.
Onan, being a troublemaker, and, perhaps some issues with his
brother, did not want to play the game to the bitter end.

Actually, I have always been kind of amused by Onan
Generators, mostly because of this story. I assume that they produce
better than Onan did *smile*.

In any case, I suspect that the lessons we should learn from
this Bible lesson is that we should be glad that the Supreme Being
apparently has less of a "hand's on" management technique now, and,
that even if you DO avoid kids...your life, as you know it, can
come to a screeching halt.
Regards
Dave Mundt

"Dave Mundt" wrote in message
.. .
Greetings and Salutations....

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:53:56 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:


http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/starion.asp

"On the other hand, given that at the same time Mitsubishi brought out
the Starion they also introduced a model with the rather unfortunate
name of "Pajero" (a word which in Spanish is a slang term for someone
who enjoys pleasuring himself, prompting Mitsubishi to judiciously
rename the car the "Montero" in some markets), it's sometimes hard to
believe they don't operate this way."

Ned Simmons

Not to be overly pedantic, but, Onanism REALLY should not
refer to masterbation. In matter of fact, Onanism is premature
withdrawal during sex, to ensure that one's seman will not
be as likely to impregnate one's partner. It was, shall we say,
frowned upon by the powers that be. Here is the reference, from
Genesis 38

A pedant should not misspell "masturbation".
BTW, the OED disagrees with you, and I'm afraid to have to say that I'm on its
side.

Your definition of the term is a perfectly valid *alternative* definition, but
not the primary one.
Despite its origin, the meaning nowadays is as I used it.

(Last time I'll try to be discreet in a newsgroup.)

--
Jeff R.

"Jeff R." wrote:

"Dave Mundt" wrote
Greetings and Salutations....

Ned Simmons wrote:

http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/starion.asp

"On the other hand, given that at the same time Mitsubishi brought out
the Starion they also introduced a model with the rather unfortunate
name of "Pajero" (a word which in Spanish is a slang term for someone
who enjoys pleasuring himself, prompting Mitsubishi to judiciously
rename the car the "Montero" in some markets), it's sometimes hard to
believe they don't operate this way."

Ned Simmons

Not to be overly pedantic, but, Onanism REALLY should not
refer to masterbation. In matter of fact, Onanism is premature
withdrawal during sex, to ensure that one's seman will not
be as likely to impregnate one's partner. It was, shall we say,
frowned upon by the powers that be. Here is the reference, from
Genesis 38

A pedant should not misspell "masturbation".
BTW, the OED disagrees with you, and I'm afraid to have to say that I'm on its
side.

Your definition of the term is a perfectly valid *alternative* definition, but
not the primary one.
Despite its origin, the meaning nowadays is as I used it.

(Last time I'll try to be discreet in a newsgroup.)

--
Jeff R.

You missed his misspelling of "semen" as well. Maybe writing about this
makes Dave nervous.

Ted

--
Ted Bennett
Portland, OR

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:44:44 GMT, Ted
wrote:


"Jeff R." wrote:

"Dave Mundt" wrote
Greetings and Salutations....

Ned Simmons wrote:

http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/starion.asp

"On the other hand, given that at the same time Mitsubishi brought out
the Starion they also introduced a model with the rather unfortunate
name of "Pajero" (a word which in Spanish is a slang term for someone
who enjoys pleasuring himself, prompting Mitsubishi to judiciously
rename the car the "Montero" in some markets), it's sometimes hard to
believe they don't operate this way."

Ned Simmons

Not to be overly pedantic, but, Onanism REALLY should not
refer to masterbation. In matter of fact, Onanism is premature
withdrawal during sex, to ensure that one's seman will not
be as likely to impregnate one's partner. It was, shall we say,
frowned upon by the powers that be. Here is the reference, from
Genesis 38

A pedant should not misspell "masturbation".
BTW, the OED disagrees with you, and I'm afraid to have to say that I'm on its
side.

Your definition of the term is a perfectly valid *alternative* definition, but
not the primary one.
Despite its origin, the meaning nowadays is as I used it.

(Last time I'll try to be discreet in a newsgroup.)

--
Jeff R.

You missed his misspelling of "semen" as well. Maybe writing about this
makes Dave nervous.

Ted
Maybe the hair on his palms makes it hard to type. Not that I would
know, of course...
ERS

In article ,
(Dave Mundt) wrote:

[...]

Not to be overly pedantic, but, Onanism REALLY should not
refer to masterbation. In matter of fact, Onanism is premature
withdrawal during sex, to ensure that one's seman will not
be as likely to impregnate one's partner. It was, shall we say,
frowned upon by the powers that be. Here is the reference, from
Genesis 38

Illustrations for the visual learners:
http://thebricktestament.com/genesis...n/gn38_01.html

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/

Greetings and salutations....

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:07:57 -0800, Eric R Snow
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:44:44 GMT, Ted
wrote:


"Jeff R." wrote:

"Dave Mundt" wrote
Greetings and Salutations....


*snip*

A pedant should not misspell "masturbation".

A very valid point....Alas, I have always
had a problem with vowels. Apparently I tend to
think that as long as I have a vowel in the
correct location, exactly WHICH vowel is less
important.
FWIW, I have had this problem for
most of my life...made it really interesting to
see my essay book in college english.

BTW, the OED disagrees with you, and I'm afraid to have to say that I'm on its
side.

Your definition of the term is a perfectly valid *alternative* definition, but
not the primary one.
Despite its origin, the meaning nowadays is as I used it.

(Last time I'll try to be discreet in a newsgroup.)

--
Jeff R.

Hum....I will have to poke around and see what the OED
quotes as a source....and, I will have to give the point
that one or the other is still "spilling one's seed on the ground",
so while it might be a bit of a stretch, it is probably as
accurate as most of the REST of the English language

You missed his misspelling of "semen" as well. Maybe writing about this
makes Dave nervous.

LOL...can't take the hit for THIS one....I did a cut and paste
from the copy of the "online Bible" I have on the system. The
version IT provides is the 1769 Authorized Version, so, that might
explain why there is that vowel difference.
Hum...it occurs to me that perhaps I could ascribe my
problems with vowels to being from the 16th century...*smile*.

Ted
Maybe the hair on his palms makes it hard to type. Not that I would
know, of course...
ERS
Hey, Hey, I shave regularly....and getting between the
fingers is a REAL pain in the butt.
G,D,R
Dave Mundt

Greetings and Salutations (again)
And I REALLY should re-read the posting
before I fire off a quick reply at the end of
a very long day...
I will take full responsibility for
spelling it "seman" instead of "semen"...
as I WAS the source for it...not the quote
from the online bible...
In any case, I also want to say
that my qubble over the term was that, in
my heart of hearts, I believe that
the "common" definition of onanism is wrong,
and, it has been misused through the ages.
However, like many things that are wrong
(say...the evolution of the term "gay")
I also realize I am trying to stand
on the beach and keep the tide from
coming in....
Regards
Dave Mundt

"Dave Mundt" wrote in message
...
Greetings and Salutations (again)
And I REALLY should re-read the posting
before I fire off a quick reply at the end of
a very long day...
I will take full responsibility for
spelling it "seman" instead of "semen"...
as I WAS the source for it...not the quote
from the online bible...
In any case, I also want to say
that my qubble over the term was that, in
my heart of hearts, I believe that
the "common" definition of onanism is wrong,
and, it has been misused through the ages.
However, like many things that are wrong
(say...the evolution of the term "gay")
I also realize I am trying to stand
on the beach and keep the tide from
coming in....
Regards
Dave Mundt

Its a pest to feel passion for the language, Dave, isn't it.
It just about guarantees that *something* or *someone* will annoy you on a
daily basis.

I share your concern:
Alternately;
fortuitous;
millennium;
definitely;
fulsome;
disinterested...

....the daily misuse of all these (and other) words *used* to drive me nuts.
It still annoys me, but advancing years have taught me to keep my trap shut -
except perhaps in self-defence.

"Onanism" undoubtedly began with the precise meaning you described. But,
heck, language evolves and by the 1930's (print date of my OED) it had the
meaning "self-abuse; masturbation" without even *any* reference to Onan or to
coitus interruptus.

As a matter of interest, I checked a dozen or so dictionaries and the OED
version is the most common, by a small majority. My 1923 Funk and Wagnell's
agrees with you, as does my 1985 Macquarie (Australian - like me).

Don't forget, King Canute "tried" to stem the tide as a demonstration of his
limited abilities, not because he thought he really could.

Me?
I've trudged back from the beach, driven home and opened a cold can.

Let the tide do what it will.

--
Jeff R.