"Winston" wrote in message
...
...
I give lots of room and respect to semis backing
into driveways in traffic. It is very rare to see
them take more than just one try. I couldn't do that
to save my life.
--Winston

In Germany I had to be checked out on Army vehicles to get a driver's
license for my VW. Our small experimental unit didn't have a truck so the
instructor just checked it off, as he was due out soon and didn't care 'bout
nothin nohow anyway.

At my next duty station they saw the license and sent me out solo in a Deuce
to drive 100 miles on unfamiliar roads after dark, to retrieve our gear. The
best I can say is that I caused no personal injury or property damage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M35_2%C...on_cargo_truck

jsw

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 08:43:42 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 07:32:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.

Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.

Not for me, man!

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.

It's hard to reverse your thinking and drive counterintuitively, isn't
it? "To move the trailer to the right, turn the steering wheel to the
left." Then I look at double and triple trailers and get all goosey.


I do not think that you can back up with doubles or triples.

I do back up fine with a trailer when I can turn my head around and
look back. But I cannot do it with mirrors. I think, that it would
take a day of practice to get it.

i

You'd get it. Every RC pilot has to overcome the same thing, apparent
reversal of inputs when the plane's coming at you instead of going
away. Simulators are invaluable (far cheaper to hit reset instead of
the walk of shame with the garbage bag) for getting over that
particular hump. Are there any for semi's?

Pete Keillor

I thought ground taxi was done with rudders, not toe brakes?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...

For me the worst one was trying to taxi a Cessna 152 with the toe brakes. I
can't leave a straight wake behind a sailboat either.

jsw

I've heard people say similar things about fire trucks. I'm sure you have a
natural talent for driving, and that everything worked out, some how.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...

In Germany I had to be checked out on Army vehicles to get a driver's
license for my VW. Our small experimental unit didn't have a truck so the
instructor just checked it off, as he was due out soon and didn't care 'bout
nothin nohow anyway.

At my next duty station they saw the license and sent me out solo in a Deuce
to drive 100 miles on unfamiliar roads after dark, to retrieve our gear. The
best I can say is that I caused no personal injury or property damage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M35_2%C...on_cargo_truck

jsw

Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
...
I give lots of room and respect to semis backing
into driveways in traffic. It is very rare to see
them take more than just one try. I couldn't do that
to save my life.
--Winston

In Germany I had to be checked out on Army vehicles to get a driver's
license for my VW. Our small experimental unit didn't have a truck so the
instructor just checked it off, as he was due out soon and didn't care 'bout
nothin nohow anyway.

At my next duty station they saw the license and sent me out solo in a Deuce
to drive 100 miles on unfamiliar roads after dark, to retrieve our gear. The
best I can say is that I caused no personal injury or property damage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M35_2%C...on_cargo_truck

I didn't do 'gradual' either.

My first experience with larger equipment was with a
rental bobtail I used to move my kid brother from
San Francisco to L.A.

460 miles in one day.
Man, was I ever tired!

--Winston-- Could not have done it with a trailer.

Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.
Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.
Not for me, man!

--Winston

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.

jsw



That's easy. Now if you stick a couple of dollies in there and a couple
more trailers it gets fun. Especially if the trailers are pups!

Back when I took my road test you could tell folks who had practice with
trailers real quick. The straight line and parallel parking didn't
bother them. I could understand the straight line but the parallel part
never made much sense, In all the year I've driven I have yet to park a
rig that way. Think it would make more sense to do a blind side dock
approach.

--
Steve W.

Winston wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 07:32:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.
Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.
Not for me, man!

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.
It's hard to reverse your thinking and drive counterintuitively, isn't
it? "To move the trailer to the right, turn the steering wheel to the
left." Then I look at double and triple trailers and get all goosey.

I give lots of room and respect to semis backing
into driveways in traffic. It is very rare to see
them take more than just one try. I couldn't do that
to save my life.

--Winston

Sure you could, the longer the trailer the easier it is to back up.
Unless you're driving a stretched west coast style rig.

--
Steve W.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I thought ground taxi was done with rudders, not toe brakes?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Jim Wilkins" wrote
For me the worst one was trying to taxi a Cessna 152 with the toe brakes.
jsw

The tail wheel is a conversion that removes the drag of a fixed nose wheel.
Some prefer it for small fields.
The problem with connecting it to the rudder:
http://tailwheelersjournal.com/2012/...heel-steering/

The runway there is aligned with an adjacent railroad track, not with the
prevailing winds.

jsw

Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've heard people say similar things about fire trucks. I'm sure you have a
natural talent for driving, and that everything worked out, some how.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

The only time I get stressed driving any fire vehicles are in parades.
Lot's of loose kids around a large vehicle that has HUGE blind spots.

--
Steve W.

On 2/2/2012 4:39 PM, Ignoramus10043 wrote:
On 2012-02-02, Jon wrote:
dpb wrote:

On 2/1/2012 3:00 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus32500 wrote:



I have not decided how to register it, but that was not my question,
my question is what to do with a blank title.

i
At least in Missouri, and with a commercial dealer as the seller, the
title
is a worthless piece of fancy paper. What COUNTS is the documents
submitted
directly by the dealer to the DMV. They will issue a NEW title made out
to you after you pay the property taxes on the vehicle and register it.
At least, this is what happens in MO when you buy a vehicle for cash.


Well, that's likely what would happen in IL, too, if it were actually a
dealer. This is/was a private sale/auction, though.

OK, I thought Iggy bought this at some kind of auction. As it is a
commercial vehicle, there may be some different rules to title transfer.
Anyway, the bill of sale is still likely to be more important. But, the
DMV may need some paperwork sent directly from the seller to confirm they
intend to transfer the title.

I will go there on Saturday with the title and the auction invoice to
be the "bill of sale". I will post an update.

I am already driving this truck around my building, just to learn its
operation. Just driving in 1st speed. I never drove a stick shift
vehicle before. It is very different.

i

Practice makes perfect, and I think, that as long as your not driving it
for work, you don't need a CDL. So you should be able to practice on the
roads as long as your insured and driving it for personal, not
commercial reasons. But make sure to double check that fact.

What type of transmission is in it? You said your driving it around in
first gear, without a load you should be able to take off in 2nd with no
problem. If you have a High/Low system sometimes gears are skipped,
least they are in our F800. Tho I've never had to use Low gears cept for
the one time I had a 7 ton machine on the back hauling it to the scrap
yard. Alot of times the shift pattern is written on the top of the
drivers side sun visor.

Pete Keillor wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 08:43:42 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 07:32:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.
Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.
Not for me, man!

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.
It's hard to reverse your thinking and drive counterintuitively, isn't
it? "To move the trailer to the right, turn the steering wheel to the
left." Then I look at double and triple trailers and get all goosey.

I do not think that you can back up with doubles or triples.

I do back up fine with a trailer when I can turn my head around and
look back. But I cannot do it with mirrors. I think, that it would
take a day of practice to get it.

i

You'd get it. Every RC pilot has to overcome the same thing, apparent
reversal of inputs when the plane's coming at you instead of going
away. Simulators are invaluable (far cheaper to hit reset instead of
the walk of shame with the garbage bag) for getting over that
particular hump. Are there any for semi's?

Pete Keillor

Yes they have semi simulators now. Not sure if they have home versions
but I know of a few places with them. They also have ones for fire
engines so you can practice without being on the streets. I'd rather
drive, the simulators are fine for testing if you have a clue about the
vehicles but they don't really act or feel the same. You always have
that reset button to fall back on, unlike a real vehicle where you might
not try a maneuver if you were unsure of the result.

--
Steve W.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
news:aOSWq.31285
...
I'm sure you have a
natural talent for driving, and that everything worked out, some how.
..
Christopher A. Young

I've learned from rallying and dirt bike enduros and ice racing that I'm no
better than average in driving skills, at least among amateurs who enter
such events, though I can compensate by understanding tire slip angles and
practicing skidding, and I benefit from the calm situational awareness I
picked up while driving military vehicles around Europe at the time of the
Baader Meinhoff gang, Red Army Faction and Munich Olympics.

jsw

On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 09:14:11 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 07:32:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for
me.

It's hard to reverse your thinking and drive counterintuitively, isn't
it? "To move the trailer to the right, turn the steering wheel to the
left." Then I look at double and triple trailers and get all goosey.

For me the worst one was trying to taxi a Cessna 152 with the toe brakes. I

Cessnas don't back up worth a hoot, either.


can't leave a straight wake behind a sailboat either.

Interesting. People like that usually don't become machinists, DIYers,
or craftsmen. Congrats on overcoming it.

lj--whose last Cessna experience was flying it to Catalina Island from
Oceanside, CA. Dad wanted to land the little Cherokee because I'd
only been through high school Basic Aviation. My thrill was when he
let me take control, take off, fly there/around twice/back on my own.
Flying is a lot of fun. I should have gone to an aviation tech school
instead of automotive.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 08:43:42 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 07:32:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.

Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.

Not for me, man!

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.

It's hard to reverse your thinking and drive counterintuitively, isn't
it? "To move the trailer to the right, turn the steering wheel to the
left." Then I look at double and triple trailers and get all goosey.


I do not think that you can back up with doubles or triples.

It isn't done because the 2nd and/or 3rd trailers have movable
steering yokes. It's like trying to push rope.


I do back up fine with a trailer when I can turn my head around and
look back. But I cannot do it with mirrors. I think, that it would
take a day of practice to get it.

It does take awhile to learn your mirror depth perception and reverse
actions.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 08:43:42 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 07:32:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.
Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.
Not for me, man!

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.
It's hard to reverse your thinking and drive counterintuitively, isn't
it? "To move the trailer to the right, turn the steering wheel to the
left." Then I look at double and triple trailers and get all goosey.

I do not think that you can back up with doubles or triples.

It isn't done because the 2nd and/or 3rd trailers have movable
steering yokes. It's like trying to push rope.

UPS transfer drivers back up double pups all the time. Triples are a
real chore, you have to really practice to get the third trailer hooked
up on one try.



I do back up fine with a trailer when I can turn my head around and
look back. But I cannot do it with mirrors. I think, that it would
take a day of practice to get it.

It does take awhile to learn your mirror depth perception and reverse
actions.

The depth perception is usually the hard part. Once you get that down
the rest is easy.


--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson


--
Steve W.

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 13:40:46 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 08:43:42 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 07:32:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.
Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.
Not for me, man!

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.
It's hard to reverse your thinking and drive counterintuitively, isn't
it? "To move the trailer to the right, turn the steering wheel to the
left." Then I look at double and triple trailers and get all goosey.

I do not think that you can back up with doubles or triples.

It isn't done because the 2nd and/or 3rd trailers have movable
steering yokes. It's like trying to push rope.

UPS transfer drivers back up double pups all the time. Triples are a
real chore, you have to really practice to get the third trailer hooked
up on one try.

I knew it could be done but have never seen it. Do they put some kind
of tension on the yokes to keep them from wagging at first bump, or
what?

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 13:40:46 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 08:43:42 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 07:32:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.
Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.
Not for me, man!

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.
It's hard to reverse your thinking and drive counterintuitively, isn't
it? "To move the trailer to the right, turn the steering wheel to the
left." Then I look at double and triple trailers and get all goosey.

I do not think that you can back up with doubles or triples.
It isn't done because the 2nd and/or 3rd trailers have movable
steering yokes. It's like trying to push rope.
UPS transfer drivers back up double pups all the time. Triples are a
real chore, you have to really practice to get the third trailer hooked
up on one try.

I knew it could be done but have never seen it. Do they put some kind
of tension on the yokes to keep them from wagging at first bump, or
what?

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

The UPS dollies have a locking pin set-up that makes it much easier when
backing. The yard trucks get to cheat a bit as they have hooks on the
nose so they can chase the dollies easier.

--
Steve W.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 09:14:11 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
...
can't leave a straight wake behind a sailboat either.

Interesting. People like that usually don't become machinists, DIYers,
or craftsmen. Congrats on overcoming it.

My fine motor skills are good enough to splice broken IC bonding ribbon with
silver epoxy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_skill

I should add that the sailboat was a steel Little Maid of Kent and keeping
all three sails pulling evenly on various tacks while watching the compass
and chart was a workload.
http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/L...aidOfKent.html

We went out from Lunenburg NS on a dreary day when no other tourists were
around, so the owner gave me an extended class in handling the boat, which
he had sailed from Seattle.

jsw

On 2012-02-03, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Winston" wrote in message
...
...
I give lots of room and respect to semis backing
into driveways in traffic. It is very rare to see
them take more than just one try. I couldn't do that
to save my life.
--Winston

In Germany I had to be checked out on Army vehicles to get a driver's
license for my VW. Our small experimental unit didn't have a truck so the
instructor just checked it off, as he was due out soon and didn't care 'bout
nothin nohow anyway.

At my next duty station they saw the license and sent me out solo in a Deuce
to drive 100 miles on unfamiliar roads after dark, to retrieve our gear. The
best I can say is that I caused no personal injury or property damage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M35_2%C...on_cargo_truck


OK, tell us, how do you like driving it, what was your experience. No
power steering, right?

The army base 2.5 hours away from me has those on sale all the time.

i

"Ignoramus31868" wrote in message
...
On 2012-02-03, Jim Wilkins wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M35_2%C...on_cargo_truck

OK, tell us, how do you like driving it, what was your experience. No
power steering, right?
The army base 2.5 hours away from me has those on sale all the time.
i

That was in the early 1970's, the multifuel with manual transmission. I
usually drove an M109 shop van.
http://www.nf6x.net/wp/wp-content/up...999/05/p05.jpg

Driving them for several hours on the Autobahn was a workout. The suspension
is stiff and the seats were little more than canvas-covered plywood.
Military supplies are packaged well to survive their rough ride. I think the
bed might be higher than a standard loading dock.

More recently I've done repair calls with a commercial box truck which I
greatly prefer. I think the Army trucks are better suited to collectors than
heavy users, unless you really need their off-road capability. They really
weren't much fun in heavy European city traffic either. If given the choice
we took the Suburban instead.

But give one a try if the price is right. They command respect even if you
aren't carrying loaded machine guns.

Ours never broke, which was good because we couldn't get parts for anything,
half the motor pool was out of service. Europe was starved to pay for
Vietnam, and JC Whitney kept the jeeps running. I finally bought an old VW
with two weeks Temporary Duty extra pay allotment and disappeared amongst
the civilians on trips.

jsw

On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 16:10:09 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 09:14:11 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
...
can't leave a straight wake behind a sailboat either.

Interesting. People like that usually don't become machinists, DIYers,
or craftsmen. Congrats on overcoming it.

My fine motor skills are good enough to splice broken IC bonding ribbon with
silver epoxy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_skill

OK.


I should add that the sailboat was a steel Little Maid of Kent and keeping
all three sails pulling evenly on various tacks while watching the compass
and chart was a workload.
http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/L...aidOfKent.html

I guess it would be.


We went out from Lunenburg NS on a dreary day when no other tourists were
around, so the owner gave me an extended class in handling the boat, which

Cool.


he had sailed from Seattle.

Egad, around the Horn or through Panama?

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 15:00:29 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 13:40:46 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 08:43:42 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 07:32:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.
Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.
Not for me, man!

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.
It's hard to reverse your thinking and drive counterintuitively, isn't
it? "To move the trailer to the right, turn the steering wheel to the
left." Then I look at double and triple trailers and get all goosey.

I do not think that you can back up with doubles or triples.
It isn't done because the 2nd and/or 3rd trailers have movable
steering yokes. It's like trying to push rope.
UPS transfer drivers back up double pups all the time. Triples are a
real chore, you have to really practice to get the third trailer hooked
up on one try.

I knew it could be done but have never seen it. Do they put some kind
of tension on the yokes to keep them from wagging at first bump, or
what?


The UPS dollies have a locking pin set-up that makes it much easier when
backing. The yard trucks get to cheat a bit as they have hooks on the
nose so they can chase the dollies easier.

Aha! The cheat is revealed.

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 06:29:22 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 15:39:10 -0600, Ignoramus10043
wrote:

On 2012-02-02, Jon Elson wrote:
dpb wrote:

On 2/1/2012 3:00 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus32500 wrote:



I have not decided how to register it, but that was not my question,
my question is what to do with a blank title.

i
At least in Missouri, and with a commercial dealer as the seller, the
title
is a worthless piece of fancy paper. What COUNTS is the documents
submitted
directly by the dealer to the DMV. They will issue a NEW title made out
to you after you pay the property taxes on the vehicle and register it.
At least, this is what happens in MO when you buy a vehicle for cash.


Well, that's likely what would happen in IL, too, if it were actually a
dealer. This is/was a private sale/auction, though.

OK, I thought Iggy bought this at some kind of auction. As it is a
commercial vehicle, there may be some different rules to title transfer.
Anyway, the bill of sale is still likely to be more important. But, the
DMV may need some paperwork sent directly from the seller to confirm they
intend to transfer the title.

I will go there on Saturday with the title and the auction invoice to
be the "bill of sale". I will post an update.

I am already driving this truck around my building, just to learn its
operation. Just driving in 1st speed. I never drove a stick shift
vehicle before. It is very different.

i

Never drove a stick shift before..and now you own a semi?

Gnerk!

Enjoy the learning experince.
It will be a long one.

You bet, it will be. I will practice at least 20 minutes every day.

i

Particularly in 1st gear!

Grin

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 10:19:54 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 08:43:42 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 07:32:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.

Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.

Not for me, man!

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.

It's hard to reverse your thinking and drive counterintuitively, isn't
it? "To move the trailer to the right, turn the steering wheel to the
left." Then I look at double and triple trailers and get all goosey.


I do not think that you can back up with doubles or triples.

It isn't done because the 2nd and/or 3rd trailers have movable
steering yokes. It's like trying to push rope.


I do back up fine with a trailer when I can turn my head around and
look back. But I cannot do it with mirrors. I think, that it would
take a day of practice to get it.

It does take awhile to learn your mirror depth perception and reverse
actions.


The #1 thing to remember when backing up ANY trailer...is to make all of
your movements at the Bottom of the wheel, not the top of the steering
wheel when looking in the mirror.

IE..if you need to turn to the Left when looking into the mirror..turn
the bottom of the wheel to the left, and of course..the reverse

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 19:17:29 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ignoramus31868" wrote in message
m...
On 2012-02-03, Jim Wilkins wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M35_2%C...on_cargo_truck

OK, tell us, how do you like driving it, what was your experience. No
power steering, right?
The army base 2.5 hours away from me has those on sale all the time.
i

That was in the early 1970's, the multifuel with manual transmission. I
usually drove an M109 shop van.
http://www.nf6x.net/wp/wp-content/up...999/05/p05.jpg

Driving them for several hours on the Autobahn was a workout. The suspension
is stiff and the seats were little more than canvas-covered plywood.
Military supplies are packaged well to survive their rough ride. I think the
bed might be higher than a standard loading dock.

More recently I've done repair calls with a commercial box truck which I
greatly prefer. I think the Army trucks are better suited to collectors than
heavy users, unless you really need their off-road capability. They really
weren't much fun in heavy European city traffic either. If given the choice
we took the Suburban instead.

But give one a try if the price is right. They command respect even if you
aren't carrying loaded machine guns.

Ours never broke, which was good because we couldn't get parts for anything,
half the motor pool was out of service. Europe was starved to pay for
Vietnam, and JC Whitney kept the jeeps running. I finally bought an old VW
with two weeks Temporary Duty extra pay allotment and disappeared amongst
the civilians on trips.

jsw

I used to run a 1943, I believe, Ex Military Power Wagon as a tow
truck back in the late sixties.

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:28:35 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 15:00:29 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 13:40:46 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 08:43:42 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 07:32:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.
Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.
Not for me, man!

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.
It's hard to reverse your thinking and drive counterintuitively, isn't
it? "To move the trailer to the right, turn the steering wheel to the
left." Then I look at double and triple trailers and get all goosey.

I do not think that you can back up with doubles or triples.
It isn't done because the 2nd and/or 3rd trailers have movable
steering yokes. It's like trying to push rope.
UPS transfer drivers back up double pups all the time. Triples are a
real chore, you have to really practice to get the third trailer hooked
up on one try.

I knew it could be done but have never seen it. Do they put some kind
of tension on the yokes to keep them from wagging at first bump, or
what?


The UPS dollies have a locking pin set-up that makes it much easier when
backing. The yard trucks get to cheat a bit as they have hooks on the
nose so they can chase the dollies easier.

Aha! The cheat is revealed.
As a kid on the farm I got hung up going around a corner with a
hay-wagon behind the baler behind the tractor and I had to back the
rig off the post and back into the bush lane so I could take another,
wider crack at it. No fun - particularly with the baler not following
in the same track as the tractor (offset to one side)

On 2012-02-04, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 06:29:22 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 15:39:10 -0600, Ignoramus10043
wrote:

On 2012-02-02, Jon Elson wrote:
dpb wrote:

On 2/1/2012 3:00 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus32500 wrote:



I have not decided how to register it, but that was not my question,
my question is what to do with a blank title.

i
At least in Missouri, and with a commercial dealer as the seller, the
title
is a worthless piece of fancy paper. What COUNTS is the documents
submitted
directly by the dealer to the DMV. They will issue a NEW title made out
to you after you pay the property taxes on the vehicle and register it.
At least, this is what happens in MO when you buy a vehicle for cash.


Well, that's likely what would happen in IL, too, if it were actually a
dealer. This is/was a private sale/auction, though.

OK, I thought Iggy bought this at some kind of auction. As it is a
commercial vehicle, there may be some different rules to title transfer.
Anyway, the bill of sale is still likely to be more important. But, the
DMV may need some paperwork sent directly from the seller to confirm they
intend to transfer the title.

I will go there on Saturday with the title and the auction invoice to
be the "bill of sale". I will post an update.

I am already driving this truck around my building, just to learn its
operation. Just driving in 1st speed. I never drove a stick shift
vehicle before. It is very different.

i

Never drove a stick shift before..and now you own a semi?

Gnerk!

Enjoy the learning experince.
It will be a long one.

You bet, it will be. I will practice at least 20 minutes every day.

i

Particularly in 1st gear!

Grin

I moved up to the second gear today.

Also, a semi truck delivered something to me today, and when he and I
waited for a crane, I paid him to check out my truck. He checked
everything out, drove around the building etc, and said that the truck
is good. he saw no issues with the engine, transmission.etc

i

"Ignoramus31868" wrote in message
...
On 2012-02-04, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 06:29:22 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 15:39:10 -0600, Ignoramus10043
wrote:

On 2012-02-02, Jon Elson wrote:
dpb wrote:

On 2/1/2012 3:00 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus32500 wrote:



I have not decided how to register it, but that was not my
question,
my question is what to do with a blank title.

i
At least in Missouri, and with a commercial dealer as the seller,
the
title
is a worthless piece of fancy paper. What COUNTS is the documents
submitted
directly by the dealer to the DMV. They will issue a NEW title
made out
to you after you pay the property taxes on the vehicle and register
it.
At least, this is what happens in MO when you buy a vehicle for
cash.


Well, that's likely what would happen in IL, too, if it were
actually a
dealer. This is/was a private sale/auction, though.

OK, I thought Iggy bought this at some kind of auction. As it is a
commercial vehicle, there may be some different rules to title
transfer.
Anyway, the bill of sale is still likely to be more important. But,
the
DMV may need some paperwork sent directly from the seller to confirm
they
intend to transfer the title.

I will go there on Saturday with the title and the auction invoice to
be the "bill of sale". I will post an update.

I am already driving this truck around my building, just to learn its
operation. Just driving in 1st speed. I never drove a stick shift
vehicle before. It is very different.

i

Never drove a stick shift before..and now you own a semi?

Gnerk!

Enjoy the learning experince.
It will be a long one.

You bet, it will be. I will practice at least 20 minutes every day.

i

Particularly in 1st gear!

Grin

I moved up to the second gear today.

Also, a semi truck delivered something to me today, and when he and I
waited for a crane, I paid him to check out my truck. He checked
everything out, drove around the building etc, and said that the truck
is good. he saw no issues with the engine, transmission.etc

i

Do you have to smog test the truck before you can get license plates?

Best Regards
Tom.
--
http://fija.org/

On 2012-02-04, azotic wrote:
"Ignoramus31868" wrote in message
...
On 2012-02-04, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 06:29:22 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 15:39:10 -0600, Ignoramus10043
wrote:

On 2012-02-02, Jon Elson wrote:
dpb wrote:

On 2/1/2012 3:00 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus32500 wrote:



I have not decided how to register it, but that was not my
question,
my question is what to do with a blank title.

i
At least in Missouri, and with a commercial dealer as the seller,
the
title
is a worthless piece of fancy paper. What COUNTS is the documents
submitted
directly by the dealer to the DMV. They will issue a NEW title
made out
to you after you pay the property taxes on the vehicle and register
it.
At least, this is what happens in MO when you buy a vehicle for
cash.


Well, that's likely what would happen in IL, too, if it were
actually a
dealer. This is/was a private sale/auction, though.

OK, I thought Iggy bought this at some kind of auction. As it is a
commercial vehicle, there may be some different rules to title
transfer.
Anyway, the bill of sale is still likely to be more important. But,
the
DMV may need some paperwork sent directly from the seller to confirm
they
intend to transfer the title.

I will go there on Saturday with the title and the auction invoice to
be the "bill of sale". I will post an update.

I am already driving this truck around my building, just to learn its
operation. Just driving in 1st speed. I never drove a stick shift
vehicle before. It is very different.

i

Never drove a stick shift before..and now you own a semi?

Gnerk!

Enjoy the learning experince.
It will be a long one.

You bet, it will be. I will practice at least 20 minutes every day.

i

Particularly in 1st gear!

Grin

I moved up to the second gear today.

Also, a semi truck delivered something to me today, and when he and I
waited for a crane, I paid him to check out my truck. He checked
everything out, drove around the building etc, and said that the truck
is good. he saw no issues with the engine, transmission.etc

i

Do you have to smog test the truck before you can get license plates?

Best Regards
Tom.

I am going to the DMV tomorrow with the title and I will find out.

i

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 21:35:06 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:28:35 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 15:00:29 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:
The UPS dollies have a locking pin set-up that makes it much easier when
backing. The yard trucks get to cheat a bit as they have hooks on the
nose so they can chase the dollies easier.

Aha! The cheat is revealed.

As a kid on the farm I got hung up going around a corner with a
hay-wagon behind the baler behind the tractor and I had to back the
rig off the post and back into the bush lane so I could take another,
wider crack at it. No fun - particularly with the baler not following
in the same track as the tractor (offset to one side)

I'd be willing to bet that the balers didn't like backing up too much,
either.

--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin

On 2012-02-04, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Ignoramus31868" wrote in message
...
On 2012-02-03, Jim Wilkins wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M35_2%C...on_cargo_truck

OK, tell us, how do you like driving it, what was your experience. No
power steering, right?
The army base 2.5 hours away from me has those on sale all the time.
i

That was in the early 1970's, the multifuel with manual transmission. I
usually drove an M109 shop van.
http://www.nf6x.net/wp/wp-content/up...999/05/p05.jpg

Driving them for several hours on the Autobahn was a workout. The suspension
is stiff and the seats were little more than canvas-covered plywood.
Military supplies are packaged well to survive their rough ride. I think the
bed might be higher than a standard loading dock.

More recently I've done repair calls with a commercial box truck which I
greatly prefer. I think the Army trucks are better suited to collectors than
heavy users, unless you really need their off-road capability. They really
weren't much fun in heavy European city traffic either. If given the choice
we took the Suburban instead.

But give one a try if the price is right. They command respect even if you
aren't carrying loaded machine guns.

Ours never broke, which was good because we couldn't get parts for anything,
half the motor pool was out of service. Europe was starved to pay for
Vietnam, and JC Whitney kept the jeeps running. I finally bought an old VW
with two weeks Temporary Duty extra pay allotment and disappeared amongst
the civilians on trips.

I think that M35's reliability is overhyped.

I decided, pretty much, to go the usual route of a semi tractor and
some kind of a drive on trailer. This is what serious horse traders
seem to use.

i

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:36:36 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-04, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 06:29:22 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 15:39:10 -0600, Ignoramus10043
wrote:

On 2012-02-02, Jon Elson wrote:
dpb wrote:

On 2/1/2012 3:00 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus32500 wrote:



I have not decided how to register it, but that was not my question,
my question is what to do with a blank title.

i
At least in Missouri, and with a commercial dealer as the seller, the
title
is a worthless piece of fancy paper. What COUNTS is the documents
submitted
directly by the dealer to the DMV. They will issue a NEW title made out
to you after you pay the property taxes on the vehicle and register it.
At least, this is what happens in MO when you buy a vehicle for cash.


Well, that's likely what would happen in IL, too, if it were actually a
dealer. This is/was a private sale/auction, though.

OK, I thought Iggy bought this at some kind of auction. As it is a
commercial vehicle, there may be some different rules to title transfer.
Anyway, the bill of sale is still likely to be more important. But, the
DMV may need some paperwork sent directly from the seller to confirm they
intend to transfer the title.

I will go there on Saturday with the title and the auction invoice to
be the "bill of sale". I will post an update.

I am already driving this truck around my building, just to learn its
operation. Just driving in 1st speed. I never drove a stick shift
vehicle before. It is very different.

i

Never drove a stick shift before..and now you own a semi?

Gnerk!

Enjoy the learning experince.
It will be a long one.

You bet, it will be. I will practice at least 20 minutes every day.

i

Particularly in 1st gear!

Grin

I moved up to the second gear today.

Also, a semi truck delivered something to me today, and when he and I
waited for a crane, I paid him to check out my truck. He checked
everything out, drove around the building etc, and said that the truck
is good. he saw no issues with the engine, transmission.etc

i

Smart move! Good thinking! Well done!

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 19:03:33 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 21:35:06 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:28:35 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 15:00:29 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:
The UPS dollies have a locking pin set-up that makes it much easier when
backing. The yard trucks get to cheat a bit as they have hooks on the
nose so they can chase the dollies easier.

Aha! The cheat is revealed.

As a kid on the farm I got hung up going around a corner with a
hay-wagon behind the baler behind the tractor and I had to back the
rig off the post and back into the bush lane so I could take another,
wider crack at it. No fun - particularly with the baler not following
in the same track as the tractor (offset to one side)

I'd be willing to bet that the balers didn't like backing up too much,
either.
Just the baler wasn't much of a challenge, Just the wagon wasn't a
whole lot worse, but the combination was MURDER

On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:36:36 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-04, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 06:29:22 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 15:39:10 -0600, Ignoramus10043
wrote:

On 2012-02-02, Jon Elson wrote:
dpb wrote:

On 2/1/2012 3:00 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus32500 wrote:



I have not decided how to register it, but that was not my question,
my question is what to do with a blank title.

i
At least in Missouri, and with a commercial dealer as the seller, the
title
is a worthless piece of fancy paper. What COUNTS is the documents
submitted
directly by the dealer to the DMV. They will issue a NEW title made out
to you after you pay the property taxes on the vehicle and register it.
At least, this is what happens in MO when you buy a vehicle for cash.


Well, that's likely what would happen in IL, too, if it were actually a
dealer. This is/was a private sale/auction, though.

OK, I thought Iggy bought this at some kind of auction. As it is a
commercial vehicle, there may be some different rules to title transfer.
Anyway, the bill of sale is still likely to be more important. But, the
DMV may need some paperwork sent directly from the seller to confirm they
intend to transfer the title.

If it was a bankrupsy auction the trustee in banmkrupsy gives you a
bill of sale that is equivalent to a signature on the title. Take in
the title and the "transfer of title" bill of sale and there should
not be a problem transferring (assuming all the information title
is on the bill of sale and it matches the unsigned title)

I will go there on Saturday with the title and the auction invoice to
be the "bill of sale". I will post an update.

I am already driving this truck around my building, just to learn its
operation. Just driving in 1st speed. I never drove a stick shift
vehicle before. It is very different.

i

Never drove a stick shift before..and now you own a semi?

Gnerk!

Enjoy the learning experince.
It will be a long one.

You bet, it will be. I will practice at least 20 minutes every day.

i

Particularly in 1st gear!

Grin

I moved up to the second gear today.

Also, a semi truck delivered something to me today, and when he and I
waited for a crane, I paid him to check out my truck. He checked
everything out, drove around the building etc, and said that the truck
is good. he saw no issues with the engine, transmission.etc

i

Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.

Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.

Not for me, man!

--Winston

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.


Try it with a trailer with a bent tongue. Pulled forward OK, but
turned to the left when backing up. Had to replace most of the metal to
fix that problem.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Winston wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 07:32:37 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.

Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.

Not for me, man!

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.

It's hard to reverse your thinking and drive counterintuitively, isn't
it? "To move the trailer to the right, turn the steering wheel to the
left." Then I look at double and triple trailers and get all goosey.

I give lots of room and respect to semis backing
into driveways in traffic. It is very rare to see
them take more than just one try. I couldn't do that
to save my life.

Like this guy? ;-)

GIVE ME 40 ACRES (TO TURN THIS RIG AROUND)
(Earl Green / John William Greene)
The Willis Brothers - 1964


He was headin' into Boston in a big, long diesel truck
It was his first trip to Boston, he was having lots of luck
He was going the wrong direction down a one-way street in town
And this is what he said when the police chased him down.

CHORUS:
Give me forty acres and I'll turn this rig around
It's the easiest way that I've found ...
Some guys can turn it on a dime or turn it right downtown
But I need forty acres to turn this rig around.

When he finally found where to unload, he had a dreadful shock
His trailer pointed toward the road and his cab right to the dock
And as he looked around him through the tears he made this sound
Oh, give me forty acres and I'll turn this rig around.

CHORUS

When he finally got unloaded, he was glad to leave the town
He was very, very happy, headin' back to Alabam'
When up ahead he saw a sign, said; "You are Northward bound."
He said; "Give me forty acres and I'll turn this rig around."

He was driving down the right lane, when ahead he saw a sign
Now he's gotta make a left turn, but he cannot get in line
And the tears were streaming down his cheeks and they all heard him
yell
"Give me forty sticks of dynamite and I'll blow this thing to ... !"

CHORUS


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On 2012-02-04, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.

Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.

Not for me, man!

--Winston

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.


Try it with a trailer with a bent tongue. Pulled forward OK, but
turned to the left when backing up. Had to replace most of the metal to
fix that problem.



Complaining about a trailer with a bent tongue is like complaining
about a gun with a bent barrel. "would not shoot straight"

i

On 2012-02-04, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:36:36 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-04, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 06:29:22 -0600, Ignoramus31868
wrote:

On 2012-02-03, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2012 15:39:10 -0600, Ignoramus10043
wrote:

On 2012-02-02, Jon Elson wrote:
dpb wrote:

On 2/1/2012 3:00 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus32500 wrote:



I have not decided how to register it, but that was not my question,
my question is what to do with a blank title.

i
At least in Missouri, and with a commercial dealer as the seller, the
title
is a worthless piece of fancy paper. What COUNTS is the documents
submitted
directly by the dealer to the DMV. They will issue a NEW title made out
to you after you pay the property taxes on the vehicle and register it.
At least, this is what happens in MO when you buy a vehicle for cash.


Well, that's likely what would happen in IL, too, if it were actually a
dealer. This is/was a private sale/auction, though.

OK, I thought Iggy bought this at some kind of auction. As it is a
commercial vehicle, there may be some different rules to title transfer.
Anyway, the bill of sale is still likely to be more important. But, the
DMV may need some paperwork sent directly from the seller to confirm they
intend to transfer the title.

If it was a bankrupsy auction the trustee in banmkrupsy gives you a
bill of sale that is equivalent to a signature on the title. Take in
the title and the "transfer of title" bill of sale and there should
not be a problem transferring (assuming all the information title
is on the bill of sale and it matches the unsigned title)

It was not bankruptcy, they simply closed the factory and moved it to
Mexico.

i

On 2/3/2012 4:10 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/L...aidOfKent.html


Thanks for the link- I didn't know they had a web presence.


Kevin Gallimore

Ignoramus27096 wrote:

On 2012-02-04, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
Add trailers and things get giggly pretty quickly.

Backing downhill around a corner in the rain after dark with a trailer
is when it gets truly interesting.

Not for me, man!

--Winston

Backing a trailer straight across an open parking lot is a challenge for me.


Try it with a trailer with a bent tongue. Pulled forward OK, but
turned to the left when backing up. Had to replace most of the metal to
fix that problem.



Complaining about a trailer with a bent tongue is like complaining
about a gun with a bent barrel. "would not shoot straight"


You sound like the guy that told me I didn't know how to back a
trailer. I let him try it, and he was a lot worse with it than I was.
There was a 10° horizontal bend that pushed it out of line. Try it some
time, before you spout off. It was my dad's trailer. he didn't back it
up. he uncoupled it and turned it around by hand. It was short and too
light weight for what he needed, but he didn't listen when I told him it
was a bad trailer and bought it anyway. he didn't let me replace the
tounge until it snapped off. Loaded and on a highway. A chuckhole at a
stop sign, and the tailgate shot up into the rearview mirror


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.