Sorry for the OT post but I was wondering if anyone is familiar with the way Sam's Club
records their warranties now.

It used to be that one didn't have to worry about keeping their warranty record because
Sam's Club could pull it right up on the screen and say, "Yep. You purchased such and such
on that day and it's good till who-knows-when...."

About a week ago I had an 1100 VA APC UPS go out and just got around to pulling it out to
get repaired or replaced. I was in no hurry as I know I'd had it awhile.

After removing the computer from the top of it I found in magic marker, "Purchased Tue.
8/3/04 @ Sam's Club w 3 yr. extended Warranty. Put into operation Wed. 8/04/04."

Not knowing the length of original warranty I figured it might still be covered, if I act
fast.

A "trip" to www.apc.com shows that model to be warrantied for 2 years so I should still
have over a year to go - with the three years extended.

However, a Sam's Club employee says their records only stay accessible for two years and
I'd have to talk with a manager to see if they have access to older info. She said to
"call the 800 number on your receipt" which I may not have saved "knowing" they'd have it
in the computer! :-( I probably *do* have it, but hate trying to locate it!

Anyway, today being Monday, the managers are in a meeting and I may be able to get one in
an hour or so, if they aren't out to lunch at that time.

Anyone know if Sam's Club still keeps even their extra-cost extended warranties in the
computer now or if the managers might have access to it? ...Or if I need to start digging
for the 800 number on the extended warranty receipt?

Thanks,

Al

Al,

All I can say is that if it has a 2 year warranty and your markings said you
purchased and put into service in 2004, then you are wasting your time.
It's 2008.

....Much success if it's just a typo.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R


"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...
Sorry for the OT post but I was wondering if anyone is familiar with the
way Sam's Club records their warranties now.

It used to be that one didn't have to worry about keeping their warranty
record because Sam's Club could pull it right up on the screen and say,
"Yep. You purchased such and such on that day and it's good till
who-knows-when...."

About a week ago I had an 1100 VA APC UPS go out and just got around to
pulling it out to get repaired or replaced. I was in no hurry as I know
I'd had it awhile.

After removing the computer from the top of it I found in magic marker,
"Purchased Tue. 8/3/04 @ Sam's Club w 3 yr. extended Warranty. Put into
operation Wed. 8/04/04."

Not knowing the length of original warranty I figured it might still be
covered, if I act fast.

A "trip" to www.apc.com shows that model to be warrantied for 2 years so I
should still have over a year to go - with the three years extended.

However, a Sam's Club employee says their records only stay accessible for
two years and I'd have to talk with a manager to see if they have access
to older info. She said to "call the 800 number on your receipt" which I
may not have saved "knowing" they'd have it in the computer! :-( I
probably *do* have it, but hate trying to locate it!

Anyway, today being Monday, the managers are in a meeting and I may be
able to get one in an hour or so, if they aren't out to lunch at that
time.

Anyone know if Sam's Club still keeps even their extra-cost extended
warranties in the computer now or if the managers might have access to it?
...Or if I need to start digging for the 800 number on the extended
warranty receipt?

Thanks,

Al


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

I sent Sam's Club an email and got a fairly rapid reply providing an 800 # for contact info.

The operator - this time, with a warning that next time a receipt would be required :-) -
registered the product online and said a technician would be contacting me in 1 - 3
business days to examine the product and repair it or send it in for repairs.

So far the service appears to be A-OK! I expect the tech will bring a battery with him,
drop it in and ask me to let it charge x hours before applying a load. No mention was
made of prorating the battery life.

I'm guessing he found a record of the purchase on file since I was able to provide the
purchase date, and almost certainly the store it came from. I have made most of my Sam's
Club purchases from two stores a few mile apart in Raleigh, NC. ...Haven't been a member
for maybe a year or two but got some of my better buys there! Including, it seems, this
extended warranty which most folks say is a waste of money! :-)

Al

Al Patrick wrote:
Sorry for the OT post but I was wondering if anyone is familiar with the
way Sam's Club records their warranties now.

It used to be that one didn't have to worry about keeping their warranty
record because Sam's Club could pull it right up on the screen and say,
"Yep. You purchased such and such on that day and it's good till
who-knows-when...."

About a week ago I had an 1100 VA APC UPS go out and just got around to
pulling it out to get repaired or replaced. I was in no hurry as I know
I'd had it awhile.

After removing the computer from the top of it I found in magic marker,
"Purchased Tue. 8/3/04 @ Sam's Club w 3 yr. extended Warranty. Put
into operation Wed. 8/04/04."

Not knowing the length of original warranty I figured it might still be
covered, if I act fast.

A "trip" to www.apc.com shows that model to be warrantied for 2 years so
I should still have over a year to go - with the three years extended.

However, a Sam's Club employee says their records only stay accessible
for two years and I'd have to talk with a manager to see if they have
access to older info. She said to "call the 800 number on your receipt"
which I may not have saved "knowing" they'd have it in the computer!
:-( I probably *do* have it, but hate trying to locate it!

Anyway, today being Monday, the managers are in a meeting and I may be
able to get one in an hour or so, if they aren't out to lunch at that time.

Anyone know if Sam's Club still keeps even their extra-cost extended
warranties in the computer now or if the managers might have access to
it? ...Or if I need to start digging for the 800 number on the extended
warranty receipt?

Thanks,

Al

About the only thing I really track for warranties is car batteries --
for those I put the receipt in a zip-lock bag underneath the battery so
I know where to look when I take the battery out.

You could do something similar with anything spendy that doesn't move
around too much, given a bit of tape.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Tim Wescott wrote:


About the only thing I really track for warranties is car batteries --
for those I put the receipt in a zip-lock bag underneath the battery so
I know where to look when I take the battery out.

You could do something similar with anything spendy that doesn't move
around too much, given a bit of tape.


Not a bad idea. I'll probably try that when I purchase the next UPS. Hopefully, this one
will have a new battery in a few days, but I doubt I'll get a new warranty with it, just
the balance of the existing one.

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:10:29 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:


About the only thing I really track for warranties is car batteries --
for those I put the receipt in a zip-lock bag underneath the battery so
I know where to look when I take the battery out.

You could do something similar with anything spendy that doesn't move
around too much, given a bit of tape.


Not a bad idea. I'll probably try that when I purchase the next UPS. Hopefully, this one
will have a new battery in a few days, but I doubt I'll get a new warranty with it, just
the balance of the existing one.

Your average UPS gets warm or even hot in use, Many repceipts are on
thermal paper, when you open the bag you taped to the bottom it will
be blank or totally black. beware.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Well, I got my "contact" from Sam's Club this a.m. and the gentleman seemed somewhat
disappointed at having to tell me this but....

Sam's Club can't set this up for service unless I first replace the batteries as they are
not covered. This would indicate a *different* problem - something other than the
batteries. But that is almost certainly the problem.

Replacement batteries cost about the same as replacing the entire unit!

I *could* go back to the store and *seek* a refund on the "unused portion" of the
warranty. It would have to be prorated. I'd probably get about $10 to $14 back, as it
probably cost about $40 initially. It would cost me about three hours and 120 miles to go
back to the store where I purchased it. Doesn't make economic sense to me. I guess I'll
trash it or save it for parts.

He got online while we talked and stated that the batteries currently would be more than
the estimated ($140) I paid for it initially.

I suppose I'll shop a little closer to home and save my Sam's Club membership costs. The
local Staples has an APC 1300 (VA) for $180 and an APC 1500 VA / 865 Watt for $209.

I suppose it's good sense after all to save the costs of an "extended warranty" when
buying UPS's ! :-)

This helped firm up my resolve to not get Sam's Club membership. Sears has a much better warranty
program.

Bob Swinney
"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...
Sorry for the OT post but I was wondering if anyone is familiar with the way Sam's Club
records their warranties now.

It used to be that one didn't have to worry about keeping their warranty record because
Sam's Club could pull it right up on the screen and say, "Yep. You purchased such and such
on that day and it's good till who-knows-when...."

About a week ago I had an 1100 VA APC UPS go out and just got around to pulling it out to
get repaired or replaced. I was in no hurry as I know I'd had it awhile.

After removing the computer from the top of it I found in magic marker, "Purchased Tue.
8/3/04 @ Sam's Club w 3 yr. extended Warranty. Put into operation Wed. 8/04/04."

Not knowing the length of original warranty I figured it might still be covered, if I act
fast.

A "trip" to www.apc.com shows that model to be warrantied for 2 years so I should still
have over a year to go - with the three years extended.

However, a Sam's Club employee says their records only stay accessible for two years and
I'd have to talk with a manager to see if they have access to older info. She said to
"call the 800 number on your receipt" which I may not have saved "knowing" they'd have it
in the computer! :-( I probably *do* have it, but hate trying to locate it!

Anyway, today being Monday, the managers are in a meeting and I may be able to get one in
an hour or so, if they aren't out to lunch at that time.

Anyone know if Sam's Club still keeps even their extra-cost extended warranties in the
computer now or if the managers might have access to it? ...Or if I need to start digging
for the 800 number on the extended warranty receipt?

Thanks,

Al

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

This firms up my resolve to not get a Sam's Club membership. IMO, Sears has a very good warranty
program.

Bob Swinney
"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...
Sorry for the OT post but I was wondering if anyone is familiar with the way Sam's Club
records their warranties now.

It used to be that one didn't have to worry about keeping their warranty record because
Sam's Club could pull it right up on the screen and say, "Yep. You purchased such and such
on that day and it's good till who-knows-when...."

About a week ago I had an 1100 VA APC UPS go out and just got around to pulling it out to
get repaired or replaced. I was in no hurry as I know I'd had it awhile.

After removing the computer from the top of it I found in magic marker, "Purchased Tue.
8/3/04 @ Sam's Club w 3 yr. extended Warranty. Put into operation Wed. 8/04/04."

Not knowing the length of original warranty I figured it might still be covered, if I act
fast.

A "trip" to www.apc.com shows that model to be warrantied for 2 years so I should still
have over a year to go - with the three years extended.

However, a Sam's Club employee says their records only stay accessible for two years and
I'd have to talk with a manager to see if they have access to older info. She said to
"call the 800 number on your receipt" which I may not have saved "knowing" they'd have it
in the computer! :-( I probably *do* have it, but hate trying to locate it!

Anyway, today being Monday, the managers are in a meeting and I may be able to get one in
an hour or so, if they aren't out to lunch at that time.

Anyone know if Sam's Club still keeps even their extra-cost extended warranties in the
computer now or if the managers might have access to it? ...Or if I need to start digging
for the 800 number on the extended warranty receipt?

Thanks,

Al

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Al Patrick" wrote in message
...
Sorry for the OT post but I was wondering if anyone is familiar with the way Sam's Club
records their warranties now.

It used to be that one didn't have to worry about keeping their warranty record because
Sam's Club could pull it right up on the screen and say, "Yep. You purchased such and such
on that day and it's good till who-knows-when...."

About a week ago I had an 1100 VA APC UPS go out and just got around to pulling it out to
get repaired or replaced. I was in no hurry as I know I'd had it awhile.

After removing the computer from the top of it I found in magic marker, "Purchased Tue.
8/3/04 @ Sam's Club w 3 yr. extended Warranty. Put into operation Wed. 8/04/04."

Not knowing the length of original warranty I figured it might still be covered, if I act
fast.

A "trip" to www.apc.com shows that model to be warrantied for 2 years so I should still
have over a year to go - with the three years extended.

However, a Sam's Club employee says their records only stay accessible for two years and
I'd have to talk with a manager to see if they have access to older info. She said to
"call the 800 number on your receipt" which I may not have saved "knowing" they'd have it
in the computer! :-( I probably *do* have it, but hate trying to locate it!

Anyway, today being Monday, the managers are in a meeting and I may be able to get one in
an hour or so, if they aren't out to lunch at that time.

Anyone know if Sam's Club still keeps even their extra-cost extended warranties in the
computer now or if the managers might have access to it? ...Or if I need to start digging
for the 800 number on the extended warranty receipt?

Thanks,

Al

This firms up my resolve not to get a Sam's club membership.

Bob Swinney

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:11:30 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:

Well, I got my "contact" from Sam's Club this a.m. and the gentleman seemed somewhat
disappointed at having to tell me this but....

Sam's Club can't set this up for service unless I first replace the batteries as they are
not covered. This would indicate a *different* problem - something other than the
batteries. But that is almost certainly the problem.

Replacement batteries cost about the same as replacing the entire unit!

Check Allied Electronics - they have the special high-discharge-rate
batteries for a reasonable price. http://www.alliedelec.com

The UPS makers buy the batteries and stick their markup on them.

I *could* go back to the store and *seek* a refund on the "unused portion" of the
warranty. It would have to be prorated. I'd probably get about $10 to $14 back, as it
probably cost about $40 initially. It would cost me about three hours and 120 miles to go
back to the store where I purchased it. Doesn't make economic sense to me. I guess I'll
trash it or save it for parts.

He got online while we talked and stated that the batteries currently would be more than
the estimated ($140) I paid for it initially.

I suppose I'll shop a little closer to home and save my Sam's Club membership costs. The
local Staples has an APC 1300 (VA) for $180 and an APC 1500 VA / 865 Watt for $209.

I suppose it's good sense after all to save the costs of an "extended warranty" when
buying UPS's ! :-)

I have a larger 2400W UPS and replaced the smaller batteries once,
18AH IIRC, and they recently went out again - this time I'm going to
get 24DC trolling motor batteries at 90 AH, which will be about the
same price. It's long out of warranty...

If you feel like scrounging, see if you can find some old Telco
UPS's - wicked big (5 or 10 KW) and bomb-proof, but you need a -48V
string to run them. Iggy had one that he broke down for parts, but if
you can get it for scrap value and it works...

You'll need 8 golf cart batteries minimum, and a CO Style inverter
charger. If you need lots of run time, get a battery rack and a
string of 2400 AH to 4200 AH tank cells.

Here's a 5KW Lorain ConstAC that a Google found - built in battery
charger even! Just add a battery string and you're good to go.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lorain-UPS-Inver...07021841r35468

-- Bruce --

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:


Check Allied Electronics - they have the special high-discharge-rate
batteries for a reasonable price. http://www.alliedelec.com

The UPS makers buy the batteries and stick their markup on them.


Thanks, Bruce. I'll probably just stop by Staples and pick up a complete unit in the 1300
to 1500 VA range ($180 - $209 + tx) - without any extended warranty!

I'll probably not even rush about that. The computer is not critical and I can just turn
it on and off as needed - not using it during thunder storms, etc. I may get it next week
and it may be a month or two before I pick one up.

Thanks for the suggestions, anyway.

Al

That is why I copy on scanner those.
Just in a drawer the chemical vaporizes off some. Safety issue.
And in some - insurance fraud ?!

I buy something - I photograph the box, all sides that have anything.
I have serial numbers, marketing numbers, sales specs...... and the
model.

What is the model of your cell phone ? doesn't say on itself...
Handy sometimes.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Randy wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:10:29 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

About the only thing I really track for warranties is car batteries --
for those I put the receipt in a zip-lock bag underneath the battery so
I know where to look when I take the battery out.

You could do something similar with anything spendy that doesn't move
around too much, given a bit of tape.

Not a bad idea. I'll probably try that when I purchase the next UPS. Hopefully, this one
will have a new battery in a few days, but I doubt I'll get a new warranty with it, just
the balance of the existing one.

Your average UPS gets warm or even hot in use, Many repceipts are on
thermal paper, when you open the bag you taped to the bottom it will
be blank or totally black. beware.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.


----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

One last comment (?) on this subject that I thought needed to be clarified but I didn't
want to make it too long at the time. ...Concerning the fact that the "gentleman"
*seemed* somewhat disappointed to have to tell me that I wasn't at all protected by the
"warranty" I had paid for four years ago - don't forget that Hollyweird pays people every
day to *seem* to be things they are not ! Why should we think that Wally World couldn't
or wouldn't do the same thing? Both are interested in the BOTTOM LINE and little else so
I wasn't "fooled" by his "apparent" concern! :-)

I like the comment about "insurance fraud" when folks give you a "warranty" and put it on
thermal paper so it is GUARANTEED to fade out to nothing in just a few weeks! :-)

I rest my case on this one! Thanks for all the comments.

Back ON topic, I guess.

Al

==========

on 7/29/2008 Al Patrick wrote:
Well, I got my "contact" from Sam's Club this a.m. and the gentleman
seemed somewhat disappointed at having to tell me this but....

Sam's Club can't set this up for service unless I first replace the
batteries as they are not covered. This would indicate a *different*
problem - something other than the batteries. But that is almost
certainly the problem.

Replacement batteries cost about the same as replacing the entire unit!

I *could* go back to the store and *seek* a refund on the "unused
portion" of the warranty. It would have to be prorated. I'd probably
get about $10 to $14 back, as it probably cost about $40 initially. It
would cost me about three hours and 120 miles to go back to the store
where I purchased it. Doesn't make economic sense to me. I guess I'll
trash it or save it for parts.

He got online while we talked and stated that the batteries currently
would be more than the estimated ($140) I paid for it initially.

I suppose I'll shop a little closer to home and save my Sam's Club
membership costs. The local Staples has an APC 1300 (VA) for $180 and
an APC 1500 VA / 865 Watt for $209.

I suppose it's good sense after all to save the costs of an "extended
warranty" when buying UPS's ! :-)

"Al Patrick" wrote in message
news
One last comment (?) on this subject that I thought needed to be clarified
but I didn't want to make it too long at the time. ...Concerning the fact
that the "gentleman" *seemed* somewhat disappointed to have to tell me
that I wasn't at all protected by the "warranty" I had paid for four years
ago - don't forget that Hollyweird pays people every day to *seem* to be
things they are not ! Why should we think that Wally World couldn't or
wouldn't do the same thing? Both are interested in the BOTTOM LINE and
little else so I wasn't "fooled" by his "apparent" concern! :-)

I like the comment about "insurance fraud" when folks give you a
"warranty" and put it on thermal paper so it is GUARANTEED to fade out to
nothing in just a few weeks! :-)

I'm the "gentleman" I presume... I just re-read your original post and for
the first time noticed that it was an extended warranty. I was under the
impression that it only had a 2 year warranty after my first and innacurate
reading. Sorry for the misunderstanding and potentially useless / rude
sounding comment / reply.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:40:19 -0500, Randy wrote:


Not a bad idea. I'll probably try that when I purchase the next UPS. Hopefully, this one
will have a new battery in a few days, but I doubt I'll get a new warranty with it, just
the balance of the existing one.

Your average UPS gets warm or even hot in use, Many repceipts are on
thermal paper, when you open the bag you taped to the bottom it will
be blank or totally black. beware.

Thank You,
Randy


I had 4 yrs worth of receipts all nicely catagorized for tax purposes,
stored in a filing cabinet in one of my outbuildings...here in the
desert....

They are now interesting bits of blank paper

Joe AutoDrill wrote:
"Al Patrick" wrote in message
news
One last comment (?) on this subject that I thought needed to be clarified
but I didn't want to make it too long at the time. ...Concerning the fact
that the "gentleman" *seemed* somewhat disappointed to have to tell me
that I wasn't at all protected by the "warranty" I had paid for four years
ago - don't forget that Hollyweird pays people every day to *seem* to be
things they are not ! Why should we think that Wally World couldn't or
wouldn't do the same thing? Both are interested in the BOTTOM LINE and
little else so I wasn't "fooled" by his "apparent" concern! :-)

I like the comment about "insurance fraud" when folks give you a
"warranty" and put it on thermal paper so it is GUARANTEED to fade out to
nothing in just a few weeks! :-)

I'm the "gentleman" I presume... I just re-read your original post and for
the first time noticed that it was an extended warranty. I was under the
impression that it only had a 2 year warranty after my first and innacurate
reading. Sorry for the misunderstanding and potentially useless / rude
sounding comment / reply.

The "gentleman" I was referring to was the Sam's Club representative who called and
"seemed" to be so sorry that he could not set up a service call for this UNLESS I had
already replaced the batteries and that did not fix the problem. The batteries cost
almost exactly the same as a new UPS.

I have no problems with any of the comments online--at least not with any that I read and
I *think* I read them all. :-)

Al

Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:40:19 -0500, Randy wrote:

Not a bad idea. I'll probably try that when I purchase the next UPS. Hopefully, this one
will have a new battery in a few days, but I doubt I'll get a new warranty with it, just
the balance of the existing one.
Your average UPS gets warm or even hot in use, Many repceipts are on
thermal paper, when you open the bag you taped to the bottom it will
be blank or totally black. beware.

Thank You,
Randy


I had 4 yrs worth of receipts all nicely catagorized for tax purposes,
stored in a filing cabinet in one of my outbuildings...here in the
desert....

They are now interesting bits of blank paper




Yep, Enough reason to photocopy ALL receipts before storing them, and then keeping the
thermal receipts along with them. It *may* be that infrared would pull out the originals
if it ever became necessary.

Al Patrick wrote:

Joe AutoDrill wrote:
"Al Patrick" wrote in message
news
One last comment (?) on this subject that I thought needed to be clarified
but I didn't want to make it too long at the time. ...Concerning the fact
that the "gentleman" *seemed* somewhat disappointed to have to tell me
that I wasn't at all protected by the "warranty" I had paid for four years
ago - don't forget that Hollyweird pays people every day to *seem* to be
things they are not ! Why should we think that Wally World couldn't or
wouldn't do the same thing? Both are interested in the BOTTOM LINE and
little else so I wasn't "fooled" by his "apparent" concern! :-)

I like the comment about "insurance fraud" when folks give you a
"warranty" and put it on thermal paper so it is GUARANTEED to fade out to
nothing in just a few weeks! :-)

I'm the "gentleman" I presume... I just re-read your original post and for
the first time noticed that it was an extended warranty. I was under the
impression that it only had a 2 year warranty after my first and innacurate
reading. Sorry for the misunderstanding and potentially useless / rude
sounding comment / reply.

The "gentleman" I was referring to was the Sam's Club representative who called and
"seemed" to be so sorry that he could not set up a service call for this UNLESS I had
already replaced the batteries and that did not fix the problem. The batteries cost
almost exactly the same as a new UPS.

I have no problems with any of the comments online--at least not with any that I read and
I *think* I read them all. :-)


Did you read that extended warranty before you bought it? They all
exclude something. Also, they are usually offered by a third party, not
the retailer. Their obligation ends with the OEM warranty. Anything
during the extended warranty has to come from the company providing the
warranty service

You never gave a model number, or battery size. If it is a single 12
VDC or two 6 VDC in series you can test it with a car battery. You can
pull a 12 VDC 17 AH gel cell out of one of the portable car starting
battery packs for about $60. Lower, if you catch them on sale.

Even if it is 24 volts, cheaper batteries are available. All the UPS
batteries I've replaced where made in Japan or China. Several people
sell the OEM brands & types on E-bay. BTW, the first sign the battery
is bad is bulging sides where it has overheated. Then the terminals
develop leaks, and corrode the connections. I have found several where
the lead is completely gone, and the terminal is hanging from the now
disconnected wire. If I remove the battery door from an APC UPS and the
battery won't slide out, I know that has failed.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

Sporadic E is the Earth's aluminum foil beanie for the 'global warming'
sheep.

Al Patrick wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:40:19 -0500, Randy wrote:

Not a bad idea. I'll probably try that when I purchase the next UPS. Hopefully, this one
will have a new battery in a few days, but I doubt I'll get a new warranty with it, just
the balance of the existing one.
Your average UPS gets warm or even hot in use, Many repceipts are on
thermal paper, when you open the bag you taped to the bottom it will
be blank or totally black. beware.

Thank You,
Randy


I had 4 yrs worth of receipts all nicely catagorized for tax purposes,
stored in a filing cabinet in one of my outbuildings...here in the
desert....

They are now interesting bits of blank paper



Yep, Enough reason to photocopy ALL receipts before storing them, and then keeping the
thermal receipts along with them. It *may* be that infrared would pull out the originals
if it ever became necessary.


Scan them on a flatbed scanner, and store them on every hard drive,
just in case. Not only do you have multiple copies, but you can locate
them on any computer that still works.


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Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Did you read that extended warranty before you bought it? They all
exclude something. Also, they are usually offered by a third party, not
the retailer. Their obligation ends with the OEM warranty. Anything
during the extended warranty has to come from the company providing the
warranty service

You never gave a model number, or battery size. If it is a single 12
VDC or two 6 VDC in series you can test it with a car battery. You can
pull a 12 VDC 17 AH gel cell out of one of the portable car starting
battery packs for about $60. Lower, if you catch them on sale.

Even if it is 24 volts, cheaper batteries are available. All the UPS
batteries I've replaced where made in Japan or China. Several people
sell the OEM brands & types on E-bay. BTW, the first sign the battery
is bad is bulging sides where it has overheated. Then the terminals
develop leaks, and corrode the connections. I have found several where
the lead is completely gone, and the terminal is hanging from the now
disconnected wire. If I remove the battery door from an APC UPS and the
battery won't slide out, I know that has failed.




I haven't even opened the case. The lights indicate it is the battery. I'd have to get
into it to determine the voltage. Been busy. Don't know when I'll get around to it. It
is the Back UPS Pro 1100 volt amp. by APC.

Al Patrick wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Did you read that extended warranty before you bought it? They all
exclude something. Also, they are usually offered by a third party, not
the retailer. Their obligation ends with the OEM warranty. Anything
during the extended warranty has to come from the company providing the
warranty service

You never gave a model number, or battery size. If it is a single 12
VDC or two 6 VDC in series you can test it with a car battery. You can
pull a 12 VDC 17 AH gel cell out of one of the portable car starting
battery packs for about $60. Lower, if you catch them on sale.

Even if it is 24 volts, cheaper batteries are available. All the UPS
batteries I've replaced where made in Japan or China. Several people
sell the OEM brands & types on E-bay. BTW, the first sign the battery
is bad is bulging sides where it has overheated. Then the terminals
develop leaks, and corrode the connections. I have found several where
the lead is completely gone, and the terminal is hanging from the now
disconnected wire. If I remove the battery door from an APC UPS and the
battery won't slide out, I know that has failed.



I haven't even opened the case. The lights indicate it is the battery. I'd have to get
into it to determine the voltage. Been busy. Don't know when I'll get around to it. It
is the Back UPS Pro 1100 volt amp. by APC.


It is APC type RBC6 wich is a pair of 12 VDC 12 AH gel cells. They
aren't hard to find, at reasonable prices.

http://www.interstatebatteries.com/estore/search.asp?details=1&mscssid=PHBXCNS0GRXL9MF6U952F 8DM8DD14DXE&Ntt=RBC6&N=0&Dx=mode+matchboolean&part _number=SLA3075&Nty=0&D=RBC6&Nu=Part+Number&Ntx=mo de+matchboolean&part_desc=24V+12AH+SLA+W%2FFUSE+%2 D+Sealed+Lead+Acid&Ns=product+Type%7C0%7C%7CRank%7 C1&Ntk=SearchGroup#AlsoFits


If that link doesn't work, go to the Interstae Battery website and
search on RBC6.
http://www.interstatebatteries.com


http://www.google.com/search?q=RBC6+&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLD
is a goog;e search for RBC6. I think I have four of that model that
need batteries, but they were free so they are in storage, till somone
wants a decent UPS.


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Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Al Patrick wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Did you read that extended warranty before you bought it? They all
exclude something. Also, they are usually offered by a third party, not
the retailer. Their obligation ends with the OEM warranty. Anything
during the extended warranty has to come from the company providing the
warranty service

You never gave a model number, or battery size. If it is a single 12
VDC or two 6 VDC in series you can test it with a car battery. You can
pull a 12 VDC 17 AH gel cell out of one of the portable car starting
battery packs for about $60. Lower, if you catch them on sale.

Even if it is 24 volts, cheaper batteries are available. All the UPS
batteries I've replaced where made in Japan or China. Several people
sell the OEM brands & types on E-bay. BTW, the first sign the battery
is bad is bulging sides where it has overheated. Then the terminals
develop leaks, and corrode the connections. I have found several where
the lead is completely gone, and the terminal is hanging from the now
disconnected wire. If I remove the battery door from an APC UPS and the
battery won't slide out, I know that has failed.


I haven't even opened the case. The lights indicate it is the battery. I'd have to get
into it to determine the voltage. Been busy. Don't know when I'll get around to it. It
is the Back UPS Pro 1100 volt amp. by APC.


It is APC type RBC6 wich is a pair of 12 VDC 12 AH gel cells. They
aren't hard to find, at reasonable prices.

http://www.interstatebatteries.com/estore/search.asp?details=1&mscssid=PHBXCNS0GRXL9MF6U952F 8DM8DD14DXE&Ntt=RBC6&N=0&Dx=mode+matchboolean&part _number=SLA3075&Nty=0&D=RBC6&Nu=Part+Number&Ntx=mo de+matchboolean&part_desc=24V+12AH+SLA+W%2FFUSE+%2 D+Sealed+Lead+Acid&Ns=product+Type%7C0%7C%7CRank%7 C1&Ntk=SearchGroup#AlsoFits


If that link doesn't work, go to the Interstae Battery website and
search on RBC6.
http://www.interstatebatteries.com


http://www.google.com/search?q=RBC6+&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLD
is a goog;e search for RBC6. I think I have four of that model that
need batteries, but they were free so they are in storage, till somone
wants a decent UPS.




It will still cost about $100 plus shipping for a pretty heavy item. What if I went to
the local auto parts place and picked up a couple of lawn mower type batteries - even if
they don't fit into the enclosure - would this charger, etc. work on the lead acid batteries?

Al

Al Patrick wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Al Patrick wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Did you read that extended warranty before you bought it? They all
exclude something. Also, they are usually offered by a third party, not
the retailer. Their obligation ends with the OEM warranty. Anything
during the extended warranty has to come from the company providing the
warranty service

You never gave a model number, or battery size. If it is a single 12
VDC or two 6 VDC in series you can test it with a car battery. You can
pull a 12 VDC 17 AH gel cell out of one of the portable car starting
battery packs for about $60. Lower, if you catch them on sale.

Even if it is 24 volts, cheaper batteries are available. All the UPS
batteries I've replaced where made in Japan or China. Several people
sell the OEM brands & types on E-bay. BTW, the first sign the battery
is bad is bulging sides where it has overheated. Then the terminals
develop leaks, and corrode the connections. I have found several where
the lead is completely gone, and the terminal is hanging from the now
disconnected wire. If I remove the battery door from an APC UPS and the
battery won't slide out, I know that has failed.


I haven't even opened the case. The lights indicate it is the battery. I'd have to get
into it to determine the voltage. Been busy. Don't know when I'll get around to it. It
is the Back UPS Pro 1100 volt amp. by APC.


It is APC type RBC6 wich is a pair of 12 VDC 12 AH gel cells. They
aren't hard to find, at reasonable prices.

http://www.interstatebatteries.com/estore/search.asp?details=1&mscssid=PHBXCNS0GRXL9MF6U952F 8DM8DD14DXE&Ntt=RBC6&N=0&Dx=mode+matchboolean&part _number=SLA3075&Nty=0&D=RBC6&Nu=Part+Number&Ntx=mo de+matchboolean&part_desc=24V+12AH+SLA+W%2FFUSE+%2 D+Sealed+Lead+Acid&Ns=product+Type%7C0%7C%7CRank%7 C1&Ntk=SearchGroup#AlsoFits


If that link doesn't work, go to the Interstae Battery website and
search on RBC6.
http://www.interstatebatteries.com


http://www.google.com/search?q=RBC6+&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLD
is a goog;e search for RBC6. I think I have four of that model that
need batteries, but they were free so they are in storage, till somone
wants a decent UPS.



It will still cost about $100 plus shipping for a pretty heavy item.


You should be able to find them locally, and avoid shipping. These
are one of the most common sizes, but make sure they use the same lugs.

What if I went to
the local auto parts place and picked up a couple of lawn mower type batteries - even if
they don't fit into the enclosure - would this charger, etc. work on the lead acid batteries?


lawn mower batteries are not gelled. They will release corrosive
fumes inside your home or office. Look around for a cheap product with
the battery you need and gut it. A lot of newer UPS designs are not made
to run very long before overheating. The one you have has more heat
sinking than cheaper models. If this is in your shop, you could use
regular car or garden tractor batteries , as long as you vent them
outside.

PS: If you think UPS batteries are expensive, look at the prices on
replacements for electric wheelchairs. $250 & up, plus shipping. They
aren't much different, but there is almost no competition in the
medical market.

Another approach is to find a similar UPS that was damaged by
lightning and salvage the batteries. Some security companies replace
their gel cells on a set schedule. I used to get at least a half dozen
good, free, used batteries every month from someone who maintained bank
equipment & ATMs.


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In article ,
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

PS: If you think UPS batteries are expensive, look at the prices on
replacements for electric wheelchairs. $250 & up, plus shipping. They
aren't much different, but there is almost no competition in the
medical market.

I'm in that business, and they're exactly the same batteries. It isn't
that there's no competition, it's that if you call it for medical
equipment, you can charge more.

Spare parts pricing on medical equipment is outrageous, and I'm a power
medical equipment service/repair tech part time for a non-profit DME
dealer. And, of course, we can't cut the retail prices much more than
about 20% because something has to keep the lights on, the staff paid,
etc. etc. and there just isn't that much margin in the retail prices.

John Husvar wrote:

In article ,
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

PS: If you think UPS batteries are expensive, look at the prices on
replacements for electric wheelchairs. $250 & up, plus shipping. They
aren't much different, but there is almost no competition in the
medical market.

I'm in that business, and they're exactly the same batteries. It isn't
that there's no competition, it's that if you call it for medical
equipment, you can charge more.


John, I have found a 70% variation in the same brand & part number,
all from battery dealers. Some include shipping, and some don't. It
was interesting that the higher the asking price, the less likely it
included shipping.

I had the owner of a local tire store offer to get them for me at his
cost from Interstate battery. His logic was that he doesn't stock them,
doesn't sell them, and won't lose any business by helping a disabled
Veteran. I simply have to pay in cash a few days before I need any
specialty battery and the Interstate warehouse will drop them off with
his regular deliveries. All it cost him is a couple minutes to add the
item to his order, and to write a receipt. It's also excellent
advertising. Not everyone can, or will do that, but he is aware of the
thousands of disabled Veterans in the area. When I had an industrial
electronics repair business I sold a lot of parts at, or near cost to my
competition. They bought by the piece, while I bought by the case. They
paid me the same price the wholesaler would charge me for one, and I
made a couple percent, and kept my stock fresh for free.


Spare parts pricing on medical equipment is outrageous, and I'm a power
medical equipment service/repair tech part time for a non-profit DME
dealer. And, of course, we can't cut the retail prices much more than
about 20% because something has to keep the lights on, the staff paid,
etc. etc. and there just isn't that much margin in the retail prices.


I understand a business has overhead. We talked about power chairs a
few months ago, and that the locals here don't want to fix anything,
just sell new. A friend had an identical Jet power chair with bad
batteries. There was a slight tear on the back of the seat, so they
refused to repair it. Instead, they let the taxpayers pay for another,
brand new chair and scrapped the new looking Jet. A quick cleaning, and
a replacement seat back and it would have looked like brand new.


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On 2008-07-31, Al Patrick wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Did you read that extended warranty before you bought it? They all
exclude something. Also, they are usually offered by a third party, not
the retailer. Their obligation ends with the OEM warranty. Anything
during the extended warranty has to come from the company providing the
warranty service

You never gave a model number, or battery size. If it is a single 12
VDC or two 6 VDC in series you can test it with a car battery. You can
pull a 12 VDC 17 AH gel cell out of one of the portable car starting
battery packs for about $60. Lower, if you catch them on sale.

[ ... ]

I haven't even opened the case. The lights indicate it is the battery. I'd have to get
into it to determine the voltage. Been busy. Don't know when I'll get around to it. It
is the Back UPS Pro 1100 volt amp. by APC.

Batteries are a "consumable" in UPSs -- just like in
flashlights. You can't expect it to be covered by a warranty unless the
warranty costs as much as the replacement cost of the battery.

I run three BEST Power Systems UPS' (no longer in business, but
they made really good UPS, so I've bought them used from hamfests and
eBay -- look for the "Ferrups" model. Mine are 2KVA (four 12V Auto
sized 80 AH gel cells in series), 1.4 KVA (one 12V 80 AH Auto sized gell
cell), and one 700 VA (a smaller 12V gel cell (34 AH), but larger than
the smallest common size such as used in the 400VA APC).

I've also got one 400VA APC, and I don't consider it to be
nearly the UPS that the ones from BEST are.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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On 2008-07-31, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Al Patrick wrote:

[ ... ]

It will still cost about $100 plus shipping for a pretty heavy item.


You should be able to find them locally, and avoid shipping. These
are one of the most common sizes, but make sure they use the same lugs.

What if I went to
the local auto parts place and picked up a couple of lawn mower type batteries - even if
they don't fit into the enclosure - would this charger, etc. work on the lead acid batteries?


lawn mower batteries are not gelled. They will release corrosive
fumes inside your home or office. Look around for a cheap product with
the battery you need and gut it. A lot of newer UPS designs are not made
to run very long before overheating. The one you have has more heat
sinking than cheaper models. If this is in your shop, you could use
regular car or garden tractor batteries , as long as you vent them
outside.

Right -- put them in a PVC enclosure, add a sensor to tell when
the battery is actually in use or being charged, and run a small fan to
exhaust the vapors through PVC piping. You'll want fairly heavy gauge
wiring to run the battery outside the UPS. I would suggest something
like 2 Ga for running the battery through a pair of 6' wires (workbench
top to someplace safe on the floor). This would also keep your
electronics well clear of the fumes.

PS: If you think UPS batteries are expensive, look at the prices on
replacements for electric wheelchairs. $250 & up, plus shipping. They
aren't much different, but there is almost no competition in the
medical market.

Another approach is to find a similar UPS that was damaged by
lightning and salvage the batteries. Some security companies replace
their gel cells on a set schedule. I used to get at least a half dozen
good, free, used batteries every month from someone who maintained bank
equipment & ATMs.

Or -- go to hamfests, where battery vendors are likely to sell
off batteries which have been kept float charged for a year or two to
make room for newer stock -- but they can be excellent batteries. I've
got a 34VA 12V one from just such a seller at a hamfest earlier this
summer. And a *lot* cheaper than the 12V 80VA one from Batteries Plus
-- which happens to also be a wheelchair/medical rated battery. That
one cost me $200.00 -- but it is worth it to keep a good UPS under a
system with lots of discs spinning. Here is what the BEST Power Systems
UPS using that battery reports:


================================================== ====================
=status
Status report for FE1.4KVA [FE1.4K10807] (#FE1.4K10807)
Monday, July 07, 2008 - 14:13:58

Parameters System
---------------------------------- ----------------
V In 118.1 Freq 60.01 Mode: Auto
Watts 544 Ready: Yes
------------- VA Out 591 Inverter: Off
V Out 120.6 PF 0.91 Dist Charger: Off
I Out 4.9 Load 54% Beeper: Enabled
------------- RunTime 21m Level: (None)
V Batt 13.57 Amb Temp 29c
I Batt 0.0 BrnLvl 86.1

Active Alarms
----------------------------------------------------------
No active alarms
================================================== ====================

So -- it expects to keep a 544 Watt load (591 VA) runing for 21 minutes.
Plenty of time for a clean shutdown if there is an extended outage.
And the UPS tells the computer how long is left at regular intervals, so
the computer (a unix machine) can shut itself down before the UPS runs
out of battery -- even if I am not there to do anything for it.

Oh yes -- the BEST Power Systems UPS' also have fans to keep air
circulating past the heat sinks and to exchange it with outside air. I
did have to take apart the fan motor on the 700VA one and clean and
re-lube the bearings. And I once had to replace the Rotron style muffin
fan in the 2KV one -- but that is more of a standrd one and easier to
replace. The 1.4 KVA one also has a Rotron style muffin fan.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:21:57 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, Al
Patrick quickly quoth:

Gunner wrote:
I had 4 yrs worth of receipts all nicely catagorized for tax purposes,
stored in a filing cabinet in one of my outbuildings...here in the
desert....

They are now interesting bits of blank paper

Yep, Enough reason to photocopy ALL receipts before storing them, and then keeping the
thermal receipts along with them. It *may* be that infrared would pull out the originals
if it ever became necessary.

Unfortunately, photocopies and laser prints have a tendency to stick
to the sheet on top if they reach 100+ degrees. I'm sure that Gunner's
shack out back hits an easy 140F on a mild spring day in Taft. I'd
imagine that it gets hotter on a really hot summer day. It was 105 in
the shade the mid July day I was there a couple years ago. Ugh!

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Imagination is more important than knowledge...
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