I live in an apartment building for the last 5 years and my 25-30 year
old central air unit died (compressor). Now the unit was replaced with
a SEER 10.0 unit and I can no longer get the apartment down below 73-74
even at night. Is this normal?

Now I have done a bunch of Google work over this and I have read the
little tube (HIGH SIDE) should be warm to hot to the touch but mine is
not. Matter of fact its room temperature at best but the big tube (LOW
SIDE) is cold like a soda that was just pulled out of the
refridgerator. What should the little hose feel like and if it should
be hot what can I tell my maintainence men so they will take me
seriously that there is a problem.

With 2-3 computers running in this room 78 degrees F is unacceptable
when the previous 4 summers it was 70-72 in here (would get down to 62
easily if I let it at night or 66 in the day).

Thank you for any advice you can offer.

Hello, no one from the net can see your system. I know you tried to provide
good info.
Maybe we can go a step at a time.

Take a thermometer and get the temperature difference between the supply air
and the return air.
temperatures. The temp difference is your Delta-T.

Tell your maint man, "here is my Delta-T reading". Now your using a tech
term and sound like you know something.

Report back as needed.


"noname" wrote in message
...
I live in an apartment building for the last 5 years and my 25-30 year
old central air unit died (compressor). Now the unit was replaced with
a SEER 10.0 unit and I can no longer get the apartment down below 73-74
even at night. Is this normal?

Now I have done a bunch of Google work over this and I have read the
little tube (HIGH SIDE) should be warm to hot to the touch but mine is
not. Matter of fact its room temperature at best but the big tube (LOW
SIDE) is cold like a soda that was just pulled out of the
refridgerator. What should the little hose feel like and if it should
be hot what can I tell my maintainence men so they will take me
seriously that there is a problem.

With 2-3 computers running in this room 78 degrees F is unacceptable
when the previous 4 summers it was 70-72 in here (would get down to 62
easily if I let it at night or 66 in the day).

Thank you for any advice you can offer.

An airconditioning system should provide an indoor environment of
approx. 15-20 f lower than the outside temperature at the time 'if' it
is properly sized and functioning correctly. The last poster gave you
a very good way to check the systems effectiveness . Do that, and let us
know. Keep in mind, that, if you have alot of heat generating equipment
in your apartment, then you may have increased the cooling load beyond
what the system is capable of .

HVAC IsFun wrote:

An airconditioning system should provide an indoor environment of
approx. 15-20 f lower than the outside temperature at the time 'if' it
is properly sized and functioning correctly. The last poster gave you
a very good way to check the systems effectiveness . Do that, and let us
know. Keep in mind, that, if you have alot of heat generating equipment
in your apartment, then you may have increased the cooling load beyond
what the system is capable of .

So, if its 100f outside best I can hope for is 80?

What I used to get was 70 no problems. What if its 70 outside shouldn't
the air conditon get to 60 or less?

noname wrote:
HVAC IsFun wrote:

An airconditioning system should provide an indoor environment of
approx. 15-20 f lower than the outside temperature at the time 'if'
it is properly sized and functioning correctly. The last poster
gave you a very good way to check the systems effectiveness . Do
that, and let us know. Keep in mind, that, if you have alot of heat
generating equipment in your apartment, then you may have increased
the cooling load beyond what the system is capable of .

So, if its 100f outside best I can hope for is 80?

What I used to get was 70 no problems. What if its 70 outside
shouldn't the air conditon get to 60 or less?

I think the PP meant to say that "an air conditioning system should
provide an indoor environment supply temperature of approx. 15-20 F
lower than the indoor return temperature at the time 'if' it is
properly sized and functioning correctly."

"Travis Jordan" wrote in message
om...
noname wrote:
HVAC IsFun wrote:

An airconditioning system should provide an indoor environment of
approx. 15-20 f lower than the outside temperature at the time 'if'
it is properly sized and functioning correctly. The last poster
gave you a very good way to check the systems effectiveness . Do
that, and let us know. Keep in mind, that, if you have alot of heat
generating equipment in your apartment, then you may have increased
the cooling load beyond what the system is capable of .

So, if its 100f outside best I can hope for is 80?

What I used to get was 70 no problems. What if its 70 outside
shouldn't the air conditon get to 60 or less?

I think the PP meant to say that "an air conditioning system should
provide an indoor environment supply temperature of approx. 15-20 F
lower than the indoor return temperature at the time 'if' it is
properly sized and functioning correctly."



Umm..no..actually this is the first time I have seen Dave give correct
advice.
Mechanical Code, and Maunual J, T, and N, allows for a 20F design temp,
altho you can go higher, but the standard design IS a 20F delta between
outdoor and indoor.
However, IF you know that you will have a few days that are in the 100s, you
can allow for this. Degree days come into effect here. On average, depending
on your area, you wont have too many 100F days, unless of course, you are in
the southern half of the US....granted, heat waves hit the northern states
all the time, but unless its something odd, your 100F days up north are
much, much less than say..out in Southern CA where I learned the trade.
IF and this is IF your design temp is 20F and you have a 100F day, then you
might break say...76F indoors. Other factors come into play, and if the
system was not installed and designed correctly, then you might be fortunate
to keep it at 80F.
I might add, that in the case of the OP, I dont think hes got a design
issue, but either an install, or charge issue.
IF the guy that installed the outdoor unit didnt chck to see if the evap
coil was mated, or had a correct metering device for the new unit, nothings
really gonna help that issue till the evap issue is corrected.
Good money in this case, since no one can tell over the internet, and Daves
advice of checking delta T is NOT a great way to tell if you have a charge,
or an installation issue, would be on a bad charge....more than likely, if
anything, its slightly undercharged, and simply can not keep up the demand
with a higher load.
But...again...thats pure speculation.

So, if it's 100F in the apartment, the air coming out of the
vents oughta be about 80.

Also depends on humidity. If the air is very humid, you will
get less temp drop because the system is using a lot of
power to remove humidity.

I'm sorry we can't be more help. I'm thinking at this point
that you might have an under sized system, wrong orifice,
wrong ammount of freon in the system, or any of a list of
things. All of them take a technician to do much about it.

Wish I was more help.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"noname" wrote in message
...
HVAC IsFun wrote:

An airconditioning system should provide an indoor
environment of
approx. 15-20 f lower than the outside temperature at the
time 'if' it
is properly sized and functioning correctly. The last
poster gave you
a very good way to check the systems effectiveness . Do
that, and let us
know. Keep in mind, that, if you have alot of heat
generating equipment
in your apartment, then you may have increased the
cooling load beyond
what the system is capable of .

So, if its 100f outside best I can hope for is 80?

What I used to get was 70 no problems. What if its 70
outside shouldn't
the air conditon get to 60 or less?

I might add, that in the case of the OP, I dont think hes got a design
issue, but either an install, or charge issue.
IF the guy that installed the outdoor unit didnt chck to see if the evap
coil was mated, or had a correct metering device for the new unit, nothings
really gonna help that issue till the evap issue is corrected.
Good money in this case, since no one can tell over the internet, and Daves
advice of checking delta T is NOT a great way to tell if you have a charge,
or an installation issue, would be on a bad charge....more than likely, if
anything, its slightly undercharged, and simply can not keep up the demand
with a higher load.
But...again...thats pure speculation.
Here is what I am fighting with the maint dept over (all different
degrees of HVAC certifications).

#1 - When the outside unit was changed the evap coils were not (they
simply do not change them in any units in the 5 years I have been here)
yet this complex is 30 years old as was the now defunct unit.
#2 - the HIGH SIDE (small tube) is not even hardly warm but the upstairs
unit is.
#3 - the compressor when running has beads of condensation on top of the
unit (as well as the normal sweat).
#4 - Its a 2 ton unit and this apartment is 1540sq ft (1400sqft livable
space...thats minus the master closet that is sealed and the sealed
utility storage room)

What can I tell these guys to make them make this right?

Btw: Thanks for all of this help.

Just from what I'm getting here, I'm wondering if there is a
partial restriction of the orifice. This isn't something a
home owner can check -- takes some tools and training. But
it would give those symptoms.

I hope they installed a new filter drier in the liquid
(small) line.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"noname" wrote in message
...
I might add, that in the case of the OP, I dont think hes
got a design
issue, but either an install, or charge issue.
IF the guy that installed the outdoor unit didnt chck to
see if the evap
coil was mated, or had a correct metering device for the
new unit, nothings
really gonna help that issue till the evap issue is
corrected.
Good money in this case, since no one can tell over the
internet, and Daves
advice of checking delta T is NOT a great way to tell if
you have a charge,
or an installation issue, would be on a bad charge....more
than likely, if
anything, its slightly undercharged, and simply can not
keep up the demand
with a higher load.
But...again...thats pure speculation.
Here is what I am fighting with the maint dept over (all
different
degrees of HVAC certifications).

#1 - When the outside unit was changed the evap coils were
not (they
simply do not change them in any units in the 5 years I have
been here)
yet this complex is 30 years old as was the now defunct
unit.
#2 - the HIGH SIDE (small tube) is not even hardly warm but
the upstairs
unit is.
#3 - the compressor when running has beads of condensation
on top of the
unit (as well as the normal sweat).
#4 - Its a 2 ton unit and this apartment is 1540sq ft
(1400sqft livable
space...thats minus the master closet that is sealed and the
sealed
utility storage room)

What can I tell these guys to make them make this right?

Btw: Thanks for all of this help.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Just from what I'm getting here, I'm wondering if there is a
partial restriction of the orifice. This isn't something a
home owner can check -- takes some tools and training. But
it would give those symptoms.

I hope they installed a new filter drier in the liquid
(small) line.
I stood outside and watched everything they did (still sunburned) for
the 3+ hours it took them and YES that was brand new dryer unit they had
to weld into place.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:10:42 -0500, (HVAC IsFun)
wrote:

An airconditioning system should provide an indoor environment of
approx. 15-20 f lower than the outside temperature at the time 'if' it

15-20 F lower than the OUTSIDE temp ?? I must have some miracle
system, it easily gets it to 75 when it's 120 outside (Arizona)
Or did you mean the difference in temperature between intake in ac
system and output ??


is properly sized and functioning correctly. The last poster gave you
a very good way to check the systems effectiveness . Do that, and let us
know. Keep in mind, that, if you have alot of heat generating equipment
in your apartment, then you may have increased the cooling load beyond
what the system is capable of .

Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying

"noname" wrote in message
...
I might add, that in the case of the OP, I dont think hes got a design
issue, but either an install, or charge issue.
IF the guy that installed the outdoor unit didnt chck to see if the evap
coil was mated, or had a correct metering device for the new unit,
nothings
really gonna help that issue till the evap issue is corrected.
Good money in this case, since no one can tell over the internet, and
Daves
advice of checking delta T is NOT a great way to tell if you have a
charge,
or an installation issue, would be on a bad charge....more than likely,
if
anything, its slightly undercharged, and simply can not keep up the
demand
with a higher load.
But...again...thats pure speculation.
Here is what I am fighting with the maint dept over (all different
degrees of HVAC certifications).

#1 - When the outside unit was changed the evap coils were not (they
simply do not change them in any units in the 5 years I have been here)
yet this complex is 30 years old as was the now defunct unit.

Then there is part of your problem, as a 30 year old evap is not even close
to being matched to a new condensor. Thats a given.

#2 - the HIGH SIDE (small tube) is not even hardly warm but the upstairs
unit is.

That might point back to the fact that the metering device in the evap coil
wont be matched to the condensor.
It also might be the wrong size lineset for a newer unit. Each make
specifies the correct lineset sizes for the condensor, when matched to a
MATCHING evap.

#3 - the compressor when running has beads of condensation on top of the
unit (as well as the normal sweat).

Thats not a good sign. Can you scream overcharge at the guy that installed
it?
Also, you dont WANT the compressor sweating. IT COULD again point back at
the evap coil, and thats probably 60% of the problem.
the other 40 is charge conditions....

#4 - Its a 2 ton unit and this apartment is 1540sq ft (1400sqft livable
space...thats minus the master closet that is sealed and the sealed
utility storage room)

What can I tell these guys to make them make this right?

Have them check the superheat, or subcool, depending on the metering device
in the evap. IF they have a clue, they will know what that is...there is a
chart on all modern units on the access panel to the condensor that will
have the correct chart.


Btw: Thanks for all of this help.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
So, if it's 100F in the apartment, the air coming out of the
vents oughta be about 80.

Also depends on humidity. If the air is very humid, you will
get less temp drop because the system is using a lot of
power to remove humidity.

Wrong.
GOD Chris...when will you learn to shut up abou tthings youdont know about?


I'm sorry we can't be more help. I'm thinking at this point
that you might have an under sized system, wrong orifice,
wrong ammount of freon in the system, or any of a list of
things. All of them take a technician to do much about it.

Wish I was more help.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"noname" wrote in message
...
HVAC IsFun wrote:

An airconditioning system should provide an indoor
environment of
approx. 15-20 f lower than the outside temperature at the
time 'if' it
is properly sized and functioning correctly. The last
poster gave you
a very good way to check the systems effectiveness . Do
that, and let us
know. Keep in mind, that, if you have alot of heat
generating equipment
in your apartment, then you may have increased the
cooling load beyond
what the system is capable of .

So, if its 100f outside best I can hope for is 80?

What I used to get was 70 no problems. What if its 70
outside shouldn't
the air conditon get to 60 or less?

#4 - Its a 2 ton unit and this apartment is 1540sq ft (1400sqft livable
space...thats minus the master closet that is sealed and the sealed
utility storage room)

What can I tell these guys to make them make this right?

Have them check the superheat, or subcool, depending on the metering device
in the evap. IF they have a clue, they will know what that is...there is a
chart on all modern units on the access panel to the condensor that will
have the correct chart.

The indoor evap coils is not modern and nothing can be read on it
anymore after 30 years.

I think I am sunk as for as this tard place but I will ask them what you
said.

"noname" wrote in message
...
#4 - Its a 2 ton unit and this apartment is 1540sq ft (1400sqft
livable
space...thats minus the master closet that is sealed and the sealed
utility storage room)

What can I tell these guys to make them make this right?

Have them check the superheat, or subcool, depending on the metering
device
in the evap. IF they have a clue, they will know what that is...there is
a
chart on all modern units on the access panel to the condensor that will
have the correct chart.

The indoor evap coils is not modern and nothing can be read on it
anymore after 30 years.

Wont matter.
The superheat, subcool, and/or hot gas discharge temps will be on the
OUTDOOR unit. Its new...so there is the information that a tech that has a
clue will need...to get started. In order to properly charge a unit, he
needs to know the wet bulb temp indoors, the indoor ambient, the outdoor
temp, and he can, IF he knows what he is doing, can charge the unit with
nothing but a hose from a jug of refrigerant and a good thermostat, reading
the temp on both lines back to the outdoor unit.
Slapping a manifold on the outdoor unit till he gets above 58.6PSI on the
suction side is WRONG.


I think I am sunk as for as this tard place but I will ask them what you

I know the feeling. I just faxed over a copy of an estimate for taking over
the preventive service on a large company here...we actually DO what we say,
and after spending 4 hours there just looking these units over, its obvious
as hell that the company that was servicing them is a crook. They were
getting $5600 a month..(cheap actually for these units...air filters alone
cost wholesale over $2200) and they look like they have never been touched.
Shame too, since they probably think they are in GREAT shape, and wont like
my estimate of 6200....but hey...in this biz, if you have someone that has a
clue, do you get what you pay for...

said.

A restriction causing a low superheat? I think there may be a mismatch,
possibly insufficient coil size OR plugged A-coil - something in this
equation isn't right and it's awfully hard to tell from here.

- Robert

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Just from what I'm getting here, I'm wondering if there is a
partial restriction of the orifice. This isn't something a
home owner can check -- takes some tools and training. But
it would give those symptoms.

I hope they installed a new filter drier in the liquid
(small) line.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"noname" wrote in message
...
I might add, that in the case of the OP, I dont think hes
got a design
issue, but either an install, or charge issue.
IF the guy that installed the outdoor unit didnt chck to
see if the evap
coil was mated, or had a correct metering device for the
new unit, nothings
really gonna help that issue till the evap issue is
corrected.
Good money in this case, since no one can tell over the
internet, and Daves
advice of checking delta T is NOT a great way to tell if
you have a charge,
or an installation issue, would be on a bad charge....more
than likely, if
anything, its slightly undercharged, and simply can not
keep up the demand
with a higher load.
But...again...thats pure speculation.
Here is what I am fighting with the maint dept over (all
different
degrees of HVAC certifications).

#1 - When the outside unit was changed the evap coils were
not (they
simply do not change them in any units in the 5 years I have
been here)
yet this complex is 30 years old as was the now defunct
unit.
#2 - the HIGH SIDE (small tube) is not even hardly warm but
the upstairs
unit is.
#3 - the compressor when running has beads of condensation
on top of the
unit (as well as the normal sweat).
#4 - Its a 2 ton unit and this apartment is 1540sq ft
(1400sqft livable
space...thats minus the master closet that is sealed and the
sealed
utility storage room)

What can I tell these guys to make them make this right?

Btw: Thanks for all of this help.

The indoor evap coils is not modern and nothing can be read on it
anymore after 30 years.

Wont matter.
The superheat, subcool, and/or hot gas discharge temps will be on the
OUTDOOR unit. Its new...so there is the information that a tech that has a
clue will need...to get started. In order to properly charge a unit, he
needs to know the wet bulb temp indoors, the indoor ambient, the outdoor
temp, and he can, IF he knows what he is doing, can charge the unit with
nothing but a hose from a jug of refrigerant and a good thermostat, reading
the temp on both lines back to the outdoor unit.
Slapping a manifold on the outdoor unit till he gets above 58.6PSI on the
suction side is WRONG.


I think I am sunk as for as this tard place but I will ask them what you

I know the feeling. I just faxed over a copy of an estimate for taking over
the preventive service on a large company here...we actually DO what we say,
and after spending 4 hours there just looking these units over, its obvious
as hell that the company that was servicing them is a crook. They were
getting $5600 a month..(cheap actually for these units...air filters alone
cost wholesale over $2200) and they look like they have never been touched.
Shame too, since they probably think they are in GREAT shape, and wont like
my estimate of 6200....but hey...in this biz, if you have someone that has a
clue, do you get what you pay for...

said.

Yeah, an all of these einsteins have their hvac certs, wtf?

Anyways I printed out your info and am ready to slam this mofo as I am
tired of being hot.

Just wanted to let everyone know that they said my coils were fine (cut
me short before I could even finish my sentence) and all it needs is
more freon.

So, I hope they blow this mofo to kingdom to come and wondering if there
is anything I can do to help it along so it blows itself to hell?

I really have a short fuse when I am dealing with idiots who refuse to
listen to the manufacturer and to sound logic (both had the same
conclusion).

Basically I hope while I am gone they fill up my unit as they are
supposed to and by tomorrow it goes KABOOM.

Once again thank you everyone who offered help I listened and learnt but
the powers that be could care less.

"noname" wrote in message
...
Just wanted to let everyone know that they said my coils were fine (cut
me short before I could even finish my sentence) and all it needs is
more freon.

So, I hope they blow this mofo to kingdom to come and wondering if there
is anything I can do to help it along so it blows itself to hell?

I really have a short fuse when I am dealing with idiots who refuse to
listen to the manufacturer and to sound logic (both had the same
conclusion).

Basically I hope while I am gone they fill up my unit as they are
supposed to and by tomorrow it goes KABOOM.

Once again thank you everyone who offered help I listened and learnt but
the powers that be could care less.


Ok...first of all, what is the brand and model number on the unit...( please
tell me its a York, Coleman, Fraizer Johnson, or some other UPG brand..then
I can send you the installation instructions you wont EVER see)
If its a Goodman, Janitrol, or GMC, all the same, I have the dealers manual
for that as well...
IF its a Carrier, or like brand, Payne, Bryant....I have those...

BTW, if its sweating at the compressor, thats not a good thing, and if they
add more to it, well....you might get your wish..

CBHVAC wrote:

"noname" wrote in message
...
Just wanted to let everyone know that they said my coils were fine (cut
me short before I could even finish my sentence) and all it needs is
more freon.

So, I hope they blow this mofo to kingdom to come and wondering if there
is anything I can do to help it along so it blows itself to hell?

I really have a short fuse when I am dealing with idiots who refuse to
listen to the manufacturer and to sound logic (both had the same
conclusion).

Basically I hope while I am gone they fill up my unit as they are
supposed to and by tomorrow it goes KABOOM.

Once again thank you everyone who offered help I listened and learnt but
the powers that be could care less.

Ok...first of all, what is the brand and model number on the unit...( please
tell me its a York, Coleman, Fraizer Johnson, or some other UPG brand..then
I can send you the installation instructions you wont EVER see)
If its a Goodman, Janitrol, or GMC, all the same, I have the dealers manual
for that as well...
IF its a Carrier, or like brand, Payne, Bryant....I have those...

BTW, if its sweating at the compressor, thats not a good thing, and if they
add more to it, well....you might get your wish..

I don't know if they made it around here after wasting my entire day as
they had 9 other units to overfill before they got to mine.

As for a model its a Goodman CKL24-1K

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Just from what I'm getting here, I'm wondering if there is a
partial restriction of the orifice. This isn't something a
home owner can check -- takes some tools and training. But
it would give those symptoms.

I hope they installed a new filter drier in the liquid
(small) line.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about HVAC

Just a new LL drier eh Stormin??

We're talking about a condenser change out, not a complete new system.

~kjpro~

BTW, new condenser on a 30 year old evap is just crazy and inefficient.

It is normal for a high efficiency unit to not be as hot on the high side,
they have larger condensers in them, that is what makes them more efficient,
kinda like having 3 cores instead of 2 on a car radiator.
"noname" wrote in message
...


CBHVAC wrote:

"noname" wrote in message
...
Just wanted to let everyone know that they said my coils were fine
(cut
me short before I could even finish my sentence) and all it needs is
more freon.

So, I hope they blow this mofo to kingdom to come and wondering if
there
is anything I can do to help it along so it blows itself to hell?

I really have a short fuse when I am dealing with idiots who refuse to
listen to the manufacturer and to sound logic (both had the same
conclusion).

Basically I hope while I am gone they fill up my unit as they are
supposed to and by tomorrow it goes KABOOM.

Once again thank you everyone who offered help I listened and learnt
but
the powers that be could care less.

Ok...first of all, what is the brand and model number on the unit...(
please
tell me its a York, Coleman, Fraizer Johnson, or some other UPG
brand..then
I can send you the installation instructions you wont EVER see)
If its a Goodman, Janitrol, or GMC, all the same, I have the dealers
manual
for that as well...
IF its a Carrier, or like brand, Payne, Bryant....I have those...

BTW, if its sweating at the compressor, thats not a good thing, and if
they
add more to it, well....you might get your wish..

I don't know if they made it around here after wasting my entire day as
they had 9 other units to overfill before they got to mine.

As for a model its a Goodman CKL24-1K

"mike92105" wrote in message
news:AiCyc.19596$E03.10547@fed1read01...
It is normal for a high efficiency unit to not be as hot on the high side,
they have larger condensers in them, that is what makes them more
efficient,
kinda like having 3 cores instead of 2 on a car radiator.

Ummm...not always. And the unit he got isnt. Its a 10SEER.

http://www.alpinehomeair.com/related...ec%20Sheet.pdf



"noname" wrote in message
...


CBHVAC wrote:

"noname" wrote in message
...
Just wanted to let everyone know that they said my coils were fine
(cut
me short before I could even finish my sentence) and all it needs is
more freon.

So, I hope they blow this mofo to kingdom to come and wondering if
there
is anything I can do to help it along so it blows itself to hell?

I really have a short fuse when I am dealing with idiots who refuse
to
listen to the manufacturer and to sound logic (both had the same
conclusion).

Basically I hope while I am gone they fill up my unit as they are
supposed to and by tomorrow it goes KABOOM.

Once again thank you everyone who offered help I listened and learnt
but
the powers that be could care less.

Ok...first of all, what is the brand and model number on the unit...(
please
tell me its a York, Coleman, Fraizer Johnson, or some other UPG
brand..then
I can send you the installation instructions you wont EVER see)
If its a Goodman, Janitrol, or GMC, all the same, I have the dealers
manual
for that as well...
IF its a Carrier, or like brand, Payne, Bryant....I have those...

BTW, if its sweating at the compressor, thats not a good thing, and if
they
add more to it, well....you might get your wish..

I don't know if they made it around here after wasting my entire day as
they had 9 other units to overfill before they got to mine.

As for a model its a Goodman CKL24-1K

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ...
Just from what I'm getting here, I'm wondering if there is a
partial restriction of the orifice. This isn't something a
home owner can check -- takes some tools and training. But
it would give those symptoms.

I hope they installed a new filter drier in the liquid
(small) line.

--

Christopher A. Young

This is Turtle.

The CKL-24 has a burn out LL drier on it already inside the unit.

You nee a suction line drier to stop any stuff from coming back out of the evaperator area.

TURTLE


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"noname" wrote in message ...
HVAC IsFun wrote:

An airconditioning system should provide an indoor environment of
approx. 15-20 f lower than the outside temperature at the time 'if' it
is properly sized and functioning correctly. The last poster gave you
a very good way to check the systems effectiveness . Do that, and let us
know. Keep in mind, that, if you have alot of heat generating equipment
in your apartment, then you may have increased the cooling load beyond
what the system is capable of .

So, if its 100f outside best I can hope for is 80?

What I used to get was 70 no problems. What if its 70 outside shouldn't
the air conditon get to 60 or less?

This is Turtle.

Well Dave here is our resident Troll and is not in the hvac business as he states. Take everything he says with a grain of salt.

Now if everything being the same with a old unit and keeping 72ºF in the place. The new one should do the same thing as the old one.
So you have a problem with the hvac system. The older 7 seer 2 ton and the newer 10 seer 2 ton should do the same thing in the real
world. The old addage of the system will only put out or keep the place 20ºF cooler than the outside temperature is only used in
court cases when a hvac company gets sued and can defend theirself with this but in the real world it is just plain bull****.

When i run a heat load on a home for a new hvac system. I program in the temperature I want to maintain in the home and the system
will be able to hold that temperature that I put in the program.

Now you said you had a compressor burn up on the unit you have but did they check the flow rater or expanion valve for trash after a
few hours of operation or put a LL drier at the evaperator coil by not changing the tubing set.

I think you may have trash in the TXV / Flow rater or a incorrectly charged unit.

You are now watching what we call in the industry a Hack Job. Watch closely for one day you may build your on home and will not want
a hack job done on your home.

TURTLE


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Are you asking for advice on killing your mofo so dat de man
will haf ta buy you a new one? We can gib you dat!

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"noname" wrote in message
...
Just wanted to let everyone know that they said my coils
were fine (cut
me short before I could even finish my sentence) and all it
needs is
more freon.

So, I hope they blow this mofo to kingdom to come and
wondering if there
is anything I can do to help it along so it blows itself to
hell?

I really have a short fuse when I am dealing with idiots who
refuse to
listen to the manufacturer and to sound logic (both had the
same
conclusion).

Basically I hope while I am gone they fill up my unit as
they are
supposed to and by tomorrow it goes KABOOM.

Once again thank you everyone who offered help I listened
and learnt but
the powers that be could care less.

Yes, I have installed suction line driers before. Great
idea. Really helps protect the mofo compresso.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote
in message ...
Just from what I'm getting here, I'm wondering if there is
a
partial restriction of the orifice. This isn't something a
home owner can check -- takes some tools and training. But
it would give those symptoms.

I hope they installed a new filter drier in the liquid
(small) line.

--

Christopher A. Young

This is Turtle.

The CKL-24 has a burn out LL drier on it already inside the
unit.

You nee a suction line drier to stop any stuff from coming
back out of the evaperator area.

TURTLE


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.701 / Virus Database: 458 - Release Date:
6/7/2004

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Are you asking for advice on killing your mofo so dat de man
will haf ta buy you a new one? We can gib you dat!

--

Yes I am. I will keep blowing them up until they go "oh ****" and do a
complete replacement as they should have. As it is now this apartment
complex will not listen to anything the manufacturer or anyone on this
thread has said.

Short of a lawsuit (which if I won would mean I won the battle but lost
the war when my lease renewal comes up and this state has no lease laws
AT ALL) the only way to make them realize something is wrong is when I
blow them to smithereens in a way it can't come back on me.

Damn it I just want a working unit like I have had for the past 4
summers until the old unit died.

I'd rather not give out "how to destroy your AC" ideas on a
public forum. (Might consider it on private email).

I understand your frustration. I've been guilty of dragging
old equipment along as long as possible cause I didn't want
to change something out, or didn't want to sell and buy a
new truck.

I've seen a similar thing with a local pizza shop. They
don't like the sliding door soda pop cooler the soda vendor
put in, they would like a newer one. but the soda pop vendor
keeps fixing the old one, and changing compressors.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"noname" wrote in message
...


Stormin Mormon wrote:

Are you asking for advice on killing your mofo so dat de
man
will haf ta buy you a new one? We can gib you dat!

--

Yes I am. I will keep blowing them up until they go "oh
****" and do a
complete replacement as they should have. As it is now this
apartment
complex will not listen to anything the manufacturer or
anyone on this
thread has said.

Short of a lawsuit (which if I won would mean I won the
battle but lost
the war when my lease renewal comes up and this state has no
lease laws
AT ALL) the only way to make them realize something is wrong
is when I
blow them to smithereens in a way it can't come back on me.

Damn it I just want a working unit like I have had for the
past 4
summers until the old unit died.

This is Turtle.

Well Dave here is our resident Troll and is not in the hvac business as he states. Take everything he says with a grain of salt.

Now if everything being the same with a old unit and keeping 72ºF in the place. The new one should do the same thing as the old one.
So you have a problem with the hvac system. The older 7 seer 2 ton and the newer 10 seer 2 ton should do the same thing in the real
world. The old addage of the system will only put out or keep the place 20ºF cooler than the outside temperature is only used in
court cases when a hvac company gets sued and can defend theirself with this but in the real world it is just plain bull****.

When i run a heat load on a home for a new hvac system. I program in the temperature I want to maintain in the home and the system
will be able to hold that temperature that I put in the program.

Now you said you had a compressor burn up on the unit you have but did they check the flow rater or expanion valve for trash after a
few hours of operation or put a LL drier at the evaperator coil by not changing the tubing set.

I think you may have trash in the TXV / Flow rater or a incorrectly charged unit.

You are now watching what we call in the industry a Hack Job. Watch closely for one day you may build your on home and will not want
a hack job done on your home.

TURTLE

I totally agree Turtle because I know I cannot get my apartment down to
what I used to could.

I also know that all they did was cut the old copper pipes and stuck on
a high side freon drier and welded everything (oxy-acetylene) in place
(the tubes did not fit properly and they pliers crimped them before they
welded. This is all they did then let a high pressure vaccum run for 30
mins and filled it with freon and left.

"noname" wrote in message
...
This is Turtle.

Well Dave here is our resident Troll and is not in the hvac business as
he states. Take everything he says with a grain of salt.

Now if everything being the same with a old unit and keeping 72ºF in the
place. The new one should do the same thing as the old one.
So you have a problem with the hvac system. The older 7 seer 2 ton and
the newer 10 seer 2 ton should do the same thing in the real
world. The old addage of the system will only put out or keep the place
20ºF cooler than the outside temperature is only used in
court cases when a hvac company gets sued and can defend theirself with
this but in the real world it is just plain bull****.

When i run a heat load on a home for a new hvac system. I program in the
temperature I want to maintain in the home and the system
will be able to hold that temperature that I put in the program.

Now you said you had a compressor burn up on the unit you have but did
they check the flow rater or expanion valve for trash after a
few hours of operation or put a LL drier at the evaperator coil by not
changing the tubing set.

I think you may have trash in the TXV / Flow rater or a incorrectly
charged unit.

You are now watching what we call in the industry a Hack Job. Watch
closely for one day you may build your on home and will not want
a hack job done on your home.

TURTLE

I totally agree Turtle because I know I cannot get my apartment down to
what I used to could.

I also know that all they did was cut the old copper pipes and stuck on
a high side freon drier and welded everything (oxy-acetylene) in place
(the tubes did not fit properly and they pliers crimped them before they
welded. This is all they did then let a high pressure vaccum run for 30
mins and filled it with freon and left.


Umm...ok...print this out and give it to them.
They are ****ing idiots. Whoever did this is a moron. Whoever did this needs
to either: Have his licence pulled, and brought up on incompetence charges
in his state with the State Board, or, needs to find a new line of work and
get the hell out of the trade, since it is painfully obvious that they have
no damn idea what they are doing other than stealing from the owner of the
building.
Give it to him too....

1- New units come with a high side dryer, (liquid line dryer) inside the
unit. All they did here was add something else to clog, and if they are
doing that for what we call a burn out clean-up, they needed to put a
suction filter on too...and come back in 30 days and replace
them..however....see #2.
2-Linesets not the same size? REPLACE IT WITH A CORRECT SIZE! If its a
burnout, and the old unit used a different lineset size...replace the
lineset. Period.
3-Evap coil....needs to be replaced to match the outdoor unit...if the
lineset does not match, see #2.
4-Nitrogen needs to be flowing in the lineset when the welding is taking
place. if they didnt do that, they created trash in the lines....
5-30 minutes for a vac? Humm...what was the micron reading? Unless they had
a micron gauge hooked up, they have NO way of knowing as the manifold that
is used to charge, wont tell you jack **** about the vac...other than it is
in one. How deep the vac is, they wont tell you...not at all. A micron gauge
is needed to know.
6-Units come pre-charged. They are set up for 15 feet of lineset, sized
properly. Vac to 400 Microns, keep it there for at least 30 minutes, (hint,
it takes about 45 to an hour and a half to reach the point that you can open
the valves) and then, depending on the evap coil, or air handler, they might
have had to change the flowrater piston, (Goodman right? ) and that can lead
to an addition, or subtraction of the charge that exists in the machine,
normally will add to it, and if the lineset is over 15 feet, then they will
indeed have to pull out their scales, and WEIGH in the additional charge.
7- On the roof right? I wont even ask about oil traps in the lineset. I
doubt seriously there are any, but I can tell you this...IF I get called to
a rooftop unit, any brand, and its under warranty and the compressors shot,
and there are no oil traps, warranty is VOID and GONE. That falls under the
improper installation guidelines on EVERYONES including Goodmans warranty.
8-Acid Away was added right? I mean...you had a burnout and that means that
the evap and lineset have acid saturated oil still in them...
9-Local permits were pulled too right? The job was permitted and inspected
correct? (of course not, but it should have been.)



There is a better than average chance, that no matter what they do to this
unit, its not going to cool worth a damn for you. Its a halfassed hacked in
jackleggers dream job. I sure hope they didnt charge your landlord more than
about $100 for that...and I know the outdoor unit cost more than that, but
now, thats all its worth...scrap metal fees. Technically, the warranty is
now void on it. If you want a copy of the Goodman warranty, since I know
good and well they didnt leave squat with you as a renter, if you have a FAX
machine I can send you a copy right out of the Goodman tech manual, and you
can read about it. IF this is an option, let me know in here, and I will
give you a good mail addy that you can pop an e-mail over to and I will send
it over.

It would be interesting to know the name of the outfit that did this, and
where you are located at aprox, so that no one else will use these hacks and
get stung like you and your landlord have. I see this all the time, and all
the time, the people want to know WHY its going to cost so much to fix, in
relation to the original "repair" and its hard to explain to someone that
just spent sometimes several thousand dollars why they got taken for a ride,
and nothing short of ripping more out will make it right and make it work
right.

If I can help with the Goodman info, let me know. But, please let everyone
know in here the name and location of this jacklegged hack. IF you have a
licence board in your state, they need to be contacted. If you are here in
NC, I can put you in touch with the right people to call and get some action
on his licence, and THAT needs to be done soon.