After 25 years of trouble-free use with _no_ changes at all, I am suddenly
having problems with a 115 volt grounded branch circuit. The circuit is
connected to a 30 amp breaker and feeds three duplex grounded outlets and a
fan/vent hood over the stove in my kitchen. The branch feeds from the breaker
into one of the three outlets ("outlet #1") and splits from there to feed the
other outlets and the vent hood. I have a microwave (Amana Radar-Range, 20 yrs
old) in one outlet ("outlet #2") and nothing plugged into the other outlets.
Recently, if I hit the Start button on the microwave, it dies, along with the
vent hood. The really weird thing is that if I plug an ordinary work light
with a 40-watt bulb into "outlet #3", the work light works, _and_ the
microwave and vent hood start working again, at least for a while. When the
problem occurs, a voltmeter shows 115 volts in outlet #3, but minimal voltage
(maybe 50 volts) in outlet #2. (I cannot remember right now what the voltage
in outlet #1 is, but I think it sometimes shows normal and sometimes not.)

Here's what I've done to troubleshoot the problem:
1. Verified that the microwave works okay when plugged into a different branch
circuit (in fact, I can sometimes also get the problem to occur with the
microwave unplugged, just by plugging the work light into outlet #2, so the
problem is not related to the microwave.)
2. Cycled the circuit breaker, pulled power and verified the breaker terminal
is securely screwed down, and, finally, switched the breaker with another
identical one in the panel.
3. Disconnected all wires from all outlets and ran continuity tests on all
parts of the circuit with an ohmmeter. Continuity was good on all wires.
None of the above solved the problem, so I did the following:
4. Removed and examined all outlets, looking/smelling for signs of burning or
scorching. None found.
5. Bought a new outlet and swapped it for outlet #2 (the one the microwave was
plugged into). Problem did not go away, so I
6. Swapped the old outlet removed from outlet #2 for the outlet in outlet #1
(the one that "feeds" the other outlets). Problem did not go away. Did not do
anything to outlet #3, since it always tests good.

As I said, this circuit has run without problems for 25 years. Also, there
have been _no_ wiring changes of any kind in the house for at least 10 years.
No fires, water damage, lightning strikes, etc.

The only thing I can think of to do now is to replace _all_ the outlets with
new ones. Does anyone else have any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance for any help.

I hope the 30a breaker is a typo. If not, that is your first mistake.

How is the circuit wired? Are the outlets wired sequentially? Are they
pigtailed?

Obviously you have a bad connection somewhere between outlet 2 and outlet 3.
Since replacing outlet 2 didn't help, the problem is probably at outlet 3.
Try replacing that.

Hard to give any other advice without know how the circuit is wired.

A Nony Mous wrote:
After 25 years of trouble-free use with _no_ changes at all, I am
suddenly having problems with a 115 volt grounded branch circuit. The
circuit is connected to a 30 amp breaker

If that is a 30 amp breaker, then I would look for all kinds of
problems. It should be 15 or 30 depending on the wiring and devices it
protects. If someone wired it that way, I would expect to find all kinds
of strangeness and dangerous other errors in the wring.

As far as I can tell from what you have done, is you may well have a
floating neutral of one kind or another. That could be nothing more than a
loose wire at the breaker box.

You don't have aluminum wire do you?

and feeds three duplex
grounded outlets and a fan/vent hood over the stove in my kitchen.
The branch feeds from the breaker into one of the three outlets
("outlet #1") and splits from there to feed the other outlets and the
vent hood. I have a microwave (Amana Radar-Range, 20 yrs old) in one
outlet ("outlet #2") and nothing plugged into the other outlets.
Recently, if I hit the Start button on the microwave, it dies, along
with the vent hood. The really weird thing is that if I plug an
ordinary work light with a 40-watt bulb into "outlet #3", the work
light works, _and_ the microwave and vent hood start working again,
at least for a while. When the problem occurs, a voltmeter shows 115
volts in outlet #3, but minimal voltage (maybe 50 volts) in outlet
#2. (I cannot remember right now what the voltage in outlet #1 is,
but I think it sometimes shows normal and sometimes not.)

Here's what I've done to troubleshoot the problem:
1. Verified that the microwave works okay when plugged into a
different branch circuit (in fact, I can sometimes also get the
problem to occur with the microwave unplugged, just by plugging the
work light into outlet #2, so the problem is not related to the
microwave.)
2. Cycled the circuit breaker, pulled power and verified the breaker
terminal is securely screwed down, and, finally, switched the breaker
with another identical one in the panel.
3. Disconnected all wires from all outlets and ran continuity tests
on all parts of the circuit with an ohmmeter. Continuity was good on
all wires.
None of the above solved the problem, so I did the following:
4. Removed and examined all outlets, looking/smelling for signs of
burning or scorching. None found.
5. Bought a new outlet and swapped it for outlet #2 (the one the
microwave was plugged into). Problem did not go away, so I
6. Swapped the old outlet removed from outlet #2 for the outlet in
outlet #1 (the one that "feeds" the other outlets). Problem did not
go away. Did not do anything to outlet #3, since it always tests good.

As I said, this circuit has run without problems for 25 years. Also,
there have been _no_ wiring changes of any kind in the house for at
least 10 years. No fires, water damage, lightning strikes, etc.

The only thing I can think of to do now is to replace _all_ the
outlets with new ones. Does anyone else have any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance for any help.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

You don't have aluminum wire do you?

I'd bet on a floating neutral, too. And, us electricians really hate
aluminum.

Jake

From: "Jake"

I'd bet on a floating neutral, too. And, us electricians really hate
aluminum.

Jake


WE electricians...

Last year he couldn't spell electrician...now he are one. g

"HA HA Budys Here" wrote in message
...
From: "Jake"

I'd bet on a floating neutral, too. And, us electricians really hate
aluminum.

Jake


WE electricians...

Thanks to everyone for the help. It's a 20 amp breaker, not a 30, the wiring
is all copper, and I had already checked everywhere for a loose connection.
So, following Toller's suggestion, I replaced outlet #3, and all is well so
far. After closer inspection and testing, it appears that the other outlets
were actually wired in series downstream from outlet #3. Even though #3
voltage tested normal, it apparently had some internal problem that prevented
the current from getting to the other outlets. Your advice has saved me the
cost of a service call from an electrician. I really appreciate the help.

wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:58:16 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

If that is a 30 amp breaker, then I would look for all kinds of
problems. It should be 15 or 30 depending on the wiring and devices
it protects. If someone wired it that way, I would expect to find
all kinds of strangeness and dangerous other errors in the wring.

You mean it should be a 15 or """20""".

Yea, I can't type, even when I am trying to comment on an error. ;-)

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

From: "A Nony Mous"


Thanks to everyone for the help. It's a 20 amp breaker, not a 30, the wiring
is all copper, and I had already checked everywhere for a loose connection.
So, following Toller's suggestion, I replaced outlet #3, and all is well so
far. After closer inspection and testing, it appears that the other outlets
were actually wired in series downstream from outlet #3. Even though #3
voltage tested normal, it apparently had some internal problem that prevented
the current from getting to the other outlets. Your advice has saved me the
cost of a service call from an electrician. I really appreciate the help.

Your problem probably stemmed from the fact that outlet #3 was back-stab wired,
right?

Although newer residential grade receptacles cannot be backstabbed with
anything larger than #14 awg, older ones allowed it. NEVER backstab your
outlets, always make a proper splice and pigtail the outlets individually!

Your problem probably stemmed from the fact
that outlet #3 was back-stab wired, right?

Probably so, and to avoid that problem when I replaced it and when I swapped
the other outlets, I used the screw terminals on all of them. Thanks for the
advice. Now I'll know where to look if any other outlets start giving me
problems.

040527 1555 - A Nony Mous posted:

Your problem probably stemmed from the fact
that outlet #3 was back-stab wired, right?

Probably so, and to avoid that problem when I replaced it and when I swapped
the other outlets, I used the screw terminals on all of them. Thanks for the
advice. Now I'll know where to look if any other outlets start giving me
problems.



The wires in the boxes should be brought together with a wire nut and leave
a pigtail to connect the outlet to. Then you wouldn't have the downstream
electrical failures.