rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

On 06/21/2015 05:57 PM, Snit wrote:
OK, so it is a good techie playground... a good place to learn about
computers and offers great command line shells. That and it can be had at no
cost and, like OS X, the risk of malware is far lower than on Windows.

Anything where it handles tasks better: things where you can show it
benefitting productivity, efficiency, or error-reduction?

you've just answered your own question. We develop on Linux and port the
product to Windows. Why? The development tools on Linux, such as gdb,
valgrind, electric fence, and so forth are superior to what is available
on Windows and are no cost.

+1

The rest of your post was cool, too, but I snipped it for brevity.

--
At least for the people who send me mail about a new language that they're
designing, the general advice is: do it to learn about how to write a
compiler. Don't have any expectations that anyone will use it, unless you hook
up with some sort of organization in a position to push it hard. It's a
lottery, and some can buy a lot of the tickets. There are plenty of beautiful
languages (more beautiful than C) that didn't catch on. But someone does win
the lottery, and doing a language at least teaches you something.
-- Dennis Ritchie (1941-2011), creator of the C programming language and of
UNIX

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

On 06/21/2015 03:59 PM, Tomas wrote:
For example, you have never had a call asking how to connect an iPod
to Linux, sync, tag etc like iTunes does?

The only Apple product I've ever owned is an iPod Shuffle that my boss
gave me one Christmas. I seldom use it but last week I decided to charge
it up and use it for a bike ride. When I plugged it into the USB port on
a SuSE 13.2 box it asked me if I wanted to synchronize it.

When I got it I rapidly found out it didn't appear as a mass storage
device like my other MP3 players, so I had to install iTunes on a
Windows laptop. What a joy that was to use that completely unintuitive
pile of dung.

Yeah, iTunes is pretty crappy. It'll get the job done if you stick with it,
and don't mind accidentally wiping out all your tunes now and then.

--
All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 21:18:15 -0400, Slimer wrote:

On 2015-06-21 8:44 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 06/21/2015 05:57 PM, Snit wrote:
OK, so it is a good techie playground... a good place to learn about
computers and offers great command line shells. That and it can be had
at no
cost and, like OS X, the risk of malware is far lower than on Windows.

Anything where it handles tasks better: things where you can show it
benefitting productivity, efficiency, or error-reduction?

you've just answered your own question. We develop on Linux and port the
product to Windows. Why? The development tools on Linux, such as gdb,
valgrind, electric fence, and so forth are superior to what is available
on Windows and are no cost. A Windows memory debugger like Purify is
relatively expensive to license and complex to use. The Windows support
has gotten better over the years, but if you wanted to cross compile for
a PIC or Atmel device, Linux was there with the toolchain.

Excellent advocacy. Thank you. It is indeed impressive what Linux
provides to developers free of charge.

Isn't it amazing what a little X-Posting can produce?
Gives me new faith in the Linux community.

Within a couple of hours, others have done a dammed good job of
advocating Linux, mentioning specifics and basically telling why
Linux suits them.

I cannot find fault with a single post.

BRAVO!!!!

Compare this to the silly, lunatic, Linux freaks in COLA who can't
even produce a single example of why Linux is superior.

Go take a shower COLA Linux advocates because the real world, the
REAL linux advocates, have shat all over you.

On 2015-06-21 8:57 PM, Tomas wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 15:25:58 -0700, Jason C. McDonald wrote:

On 06/21/2015 02:59 PM, Tomas wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 14:48:24 -0700, Jason C. McDonald wrote:

On 06/21/2015 02:27 PM, Tomas wrote:
A couple of hours a day and after a few months?
Is he ****ing kidding?
Most people don't last a day with Linux after trying it.
Linux is that bad.

It really depends on the distro and the person.

Ok.
But that's part of the problem. So many different Linux distributions
when the facts prove that most people choose from the top 5 or so
anyway.
Wouldn't it make sense to focus and apply the resources to those top
distributions?


No, it doesn't. Windows has some problems because they try to be
everything to everyone at all times. Various Linuxes are for specific
purposes and goals. Ubuntu didn't used to be the top - it used to be an
unknown while Red Hat led the pack. Now Ubuntu is one of the top, but
who knows if one of those quiet leaders might come to the front.

I played with Ubuntu
several years ago, and wound up switching to it full time because I
hated Windows.

Specifically why did you hate Windows.
Did you hate Microsoft?
Viruses?
Security?
Cost?
Poor UI?
?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, as well as the fact that Linux gives far more
control over the system to techs like me. As Eric Raymond says, you
cannot learn how to become a hacker (as in the programmer, not the
criminal) on a proprietary operating system.

That said, I install Linux for people who cannot figure
out Window - as in total computer illiterate. I always give them my card
and full permission to call me if they can't figure something out.

So if they can't figure out Windows, what makes Linux different
enough that they can figure out Linux?

Unity's interface works better for them. It's pretty straight forward
for your average computer use. You can find software and install it
quickly with Ubuntu Software Center, without worrying about price.
Settings are obvious, programs are easily within reach.

For some, Unity is a nightmare. They prefer Windows. Great, that works
for them. I am not one of those people. It's all personal preference,
psychology, and the unique way people are wired mentally. Humans are by
no means predictable. There is no "Universal Serial User".

So far, I've only ever had three calls, and they were always "Oh!
Nevermind, I figured it out myself" when I call back.

But they can't figure out Windows?
Doesn't make sense.
Linux is far more complex and far less supported.
For example, you have never had a call asking how to connect an iPod
to Linux, sync, tag etc like iTunes does?

I find that incredible.

For what they are doing, everything is right there. Music? RhythmBox or
Banshee. Their Android devices just plugged in and worked out of the
box. No driver installation weirdness. Printer? Settings, add printer,
there it is! Print. Web? There's Firefox! Email? There's Thunderbird.
Documents? LibreOffice, New Document. Where'd I put my Christmas
shopping list? Dash, "Christmas shopping", oh, there it is.

Also, without the learning curve of anti-virus, defrag, scan disk, etc,
etc, they were less confused.

Plus, askubuntu.com actually has a lot of tutorials that are easy to
follow for most things non-obvious.

It's different for everyone. Most of these people wind up telling me how
much they LOVE Ubuntu and can't imagine ever using Windows again. I've
even overheard them recommending it to other friends.

Specifics please.

Again, they personally found it easier to use. No viruses. Less
document-devouring crashes. Updates happen quietly and efficiently in
the background. Also, can't beat free.

Beyond that, see above.

But, again, that was specific to their way of thinking and what they
needed to do. I always talked to them and showed them Ubuntu on my
machine, and let them decide. (I have been fixing Windows machines as
well since I was 12 years old...and I'm talking manually removing viruses.)

No operating system is everything to everyone, nor ever will be. But for
me and many people, tech and total-non tech, Linux is a heckovalot
better than Windows for our use. (And, by the way, I do some pretty
heavy-duty production stuff on this tux box.)

I write code for a living. We deal with audio editing, video editing,
animation, repository management, vector graphics, webmastering, and
business administration stuff at my company. We also don't feel like
spending several thousand dollars to do what can be done for free at the
exact same quality level. Plus, we like the UI, UNIX Bash, and the
software that runs on Linux.

(Besides that, I used Visual Studio long enough to learn to hate it for
a plethora of technical and preferential reasons. Don't ask for
specifics, it's a personal decision I made, and I'm one of many coders
who have.)

All in all, it comes down to a personal decision. If you like Windows or
Mac, good for you. Enjoy it. I won't stop you. But, as the old Indian
saying goes, "You don't know a man until you've walked a mile in his
moccasins." You can only speak for your own experience, and for the
experiences others have shared with you. That's all I can do, too.

So, why do I advocate Linux? Because it is right for SOME PEOPLE, and I
believe in showing everyone what Linux honestly is capable of. People
are able to make up their own minds, without us trying to convince them
of the evils of the opposition.

BRAVO!!!!

A FINE example of Linux advocacy!!

You need to stick around here for a while but be ready for the Linux
zealots to attack you because of your moderate opinion.
Shields Up!
Phasers on stun!

If more people like him showed up here, people like Peter der Klöwn and
Chris Ass Storm would disappear... they'd end up suffocated like the bad
weeds that they are. Thank you to the real advocates for reminding us
why we all fell in love with Linux in the first place.


--
Slimer
Proud "wintroll"
Encrypt.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 21:19:15 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

Jason C. McDonald wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

On 06/21/2015 03:32 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
Jason C. McDonald wrote:

So, why do I advocate Linux? Because it is right for SOME PEOPLE, and I
believe in showing everyone what Linux honestly is capable of. People
are able to make up their own minds, without us trying to convince them
of the evils of the opposition.

So, while all of that is true, you still have talked to flatfish Gary
Stewart, one of the vilest trolls ever on usenet. "Tomas" is just one of his
several hundreds of nyms
And he absolutely certain does not intend to "discuss linux". He is a
windows troll who hates linux. Bin that ****head

Heh, I'm actually installing Pan with the specific purpose of plonking
this guy. (I'm on Tbird, and just realized that it doesn't have ea
killfile.)

Truth is, I had a feeling this guy was a troll, but frankly I reply to
that style of post on rare occasion to build up my flame retardant
debate skills.

With trolls like "Tomas", you'll actually also need ordure retardant. :-)

Kinda like boxing a punching bag...you know it's never
going to get KO'd, but you get better at dodging. ;P (Don't worry, I
said my piece and have nothing more on the matter.)

The other reason I responded is if someone hits this conversation on
Google. Trolls generally don't listen to anyone, so I rarely talk for
their benefit.

Thanks for the tip all the same, Peter. Still finding my way around USENET.

Just remember, if someone starts talking crazy, bin them. No use arguing
with or teaching a k00k.

In case you don't know, Christopher J. Ahlstrom likes to wipe men's
pee pees.
This is not a joke.
Google it.

You might also want to Google how his wife, Jayne Ahlstrom limits him
to a $20.00 / week allowance.
Again, not a joke.

So please take anything this pussy whipped fem says with a grain of
salt.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 21:20:57 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

On 06/21/2015 05:57 PM, Snit wrote:
OK, so it is a good techie playground... a good place to learn about
computers and offers great command line shells. That and it can be had at no
cost and, like OS X, the risk of malware is far lower than on Windows.

Anything where it handles tasks better: things where you can show it
benefitting productivity, efficiency, or error-reduction?

you've just answered your own question. We develop on Linux and port the
product to Windows. Why? The development tools on Linux, such as gdb,
valgrind, electric fence, and so forth are superior to what is available
on Windows and are no cost.

+1

The rest of your post was cool, too, but I snipped it for brevity.

You snipped it because you don't want the truth about Linux to get
out.

On 6/21/15, 6:09 PM, in article , "Slimer"
wrote:

On 2015-06-21 7:58 PM, Snit wrote:
On 6/21/15, 4:44 PM, in article , "Slimer"
wrote:

"The truth is that, at first, it will be hard, and you will encounter
many issues. Prepare to search the Internet for many tutorials, join
forums of the Linux distribution you're migrating to and ask
questions on how to do various things. My suggestion is to install
Linux on a different computer, or use a dual-boot setup - though many
will encounter issues with that - and access it from time to time,
1-2 hours per day, and after a few months, you will know if you can
really make the switch."

Would be great if the "advocates" could find places where Linux actually
benefits their productivity, efficiency, or error-reduction.

But they can't.

Here, I'll take a stab at advocating Linux. I'll take the perspective of
my teenage self.

"As an unemployed teenager, I can't afford to buy myself decent computer
equipment. As a result, I am forced to use a 386 SX-16 with 2MB of RAM I
bought for about 200$ (1994) with a 40MB hard disk. Such poverty means
that I can't afford to pay for DOS or Windows either, much less a word
processor. Enter Linux which is available free of charge and allows me
to put an operating system on my otherwise useless computer. It also
provides me with access to a decent word processor which allows me to do
my school essays as well as type up some of the stories I came up with."

That was similar to the story of many of the high school students I *did*
give Ubuntu CDs to. It was Linux or nothing. And of those two, Linux is the
better choice.

I remember how AbiWord helped me out during my second year of
University. Like today, I didn't want to use software which I hadn't
paid for and therefore didn't have a license to use Microsoft Office or
Corel WordPerfect Office. I could have used WordPad to write my essays,
but I needed something which provided me with the footnotes feature.
This was before the time of OpenOffice/LibreOffice. Enter AbiWord which
allowed me to write the essays with the footnotes. It was a Godsend.

Unfortunately, it hasn't developed since then and is rather pathetic
next to the competition today but it's still excellent for someone who
wants to remain on the legal side of things and who can't afford to buy
anything.

For that type of use Linux is great... no doubt.


--
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu: http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs? http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA
* Mint KDE working with folders: http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0
* Mint KDE creating files: http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8
* Mint KDE help: http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8
* Mint KDE general navigation: http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux: http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk
* OS / Word Processor Comparison: http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 21:22:10 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

On 06/21/2015 03:59 PM, Tomas wrote:
For example, you have never had a call asking how to connect an iPod
to Linux, sync, tag etc like iTunes does?

The only Apple product I've ever owned is an iPod Shuffle that my boss
gave me one Christmas. I seldom use it but last week I decided to charge
it up and use it for a bike ride. When I plugged it into the USB port on
a SuSE 13.2 box it asked me if I wanted to synchronize it.

When I got it I rapidly found out it didn't appear as a mass storage
device like my other MP3 players, so I had to install iTunes on a
Windows laptop. What a joy that was to use that completely unintuitive
pile of dung.

Yeah, iTunes is pretty crappy. It'll get the job done if you stick with it,
and don't mind accidentally wiping out all your tunes now and then.

iTunes sucks. Big time.
Load the plugin for foobar2000 and never look back.
If you want extensive tagging get Media Monkey.
Anything but iTunes.

On 6/21/15, 6:19 PM, in article , "Chris Ahlstrom"
wrote:

Jason C. McDonald wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

On 06/21/2015 03:32 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
Jason C. McDonald wrote:

So, why do I advocate Linux? Because it is right for SOME PEOPLE, and I
believe in showing everyone what Linux honestly is capable of. People
are able to make up their own minds, without us trying to convince them
of the evils of the opposition.

So, while all of that is true, you still have talked to flatfish Gary
Stewart, one of the vilest trolls ever on usenet. "Tomas" is just one of his
several hundreds of nyms
And he absolutely certain does not intend to "discuss linux". He is a
windows troll who hates linux. Bin that ****head

Heh, I'm actually installing Pan with the specific purpose of plonking
this guy. (I'm on Tbird, and just realized that it doesn't have ea
killfile.)

Truth is, I had a feeling this guy was a troll, but frankly I reply to
that style of post on rare occasion to build up my flame retardant
debate skills.

With trolls like "Tomas", you'll actually also need ordure retardant. :-)

Kinda like boxing a punching bag...you know it's never
going to get KO'd, but you get better at dodging. ;P (Don't worry, I
said my piece and have nothing more on the matter.)

The other reason I responded is if someone hits this conversation on
Google. Trolls generally don't listen to anyone, so I rarely talk for
their benefit.

Thanks for the tip all the same, Peter. Still finding my way around USENET.

Just remember, if someone starts talking crazy, bin them. No use arguing
with or teaching a k00k.

Insults. Attacks.

No comments about Linux.

The "advocates" fear speaking of Linux.

--
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu: http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs? http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA
* Mint KDE working with folders: http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0
* Mint KDE creating files: http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8
* Mint KDE help: http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8
* Mint KDE general navigation: http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux: http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk
* OS / Word Processor Comparison: http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 21:23:09 -0400, Slimer wrote:

On 2015-06-21 8:57 PM, Tomas wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 15:25:58 -0700, Jason C. McDonald wrote:

On 06/21/2015 02:59 PM, Tomas wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 14:48:24 -0700, Jason C. McDonald wrote:

On 06/21/2015 02:27 PM, Tomas wrote:
A couple of hours a day and after a few months?
Is he ****ing kidding?
Most people don't last a day with Linux after trying it.
Linux is that bad.

It really depends on the distro and the person.

Ok.
But that's part of the problem. So many different Linux distributions
when the facts prove that most people choose from the top 5 or so
anyway.
Wouldn't it make sense to focus and apply the resources to those top
distributions?


No, it doesn't. Windows has some problems because they try to be
everything to everyone at all times. Various Linuxes are for specific
purposes and goals. Ubuntu didn't used to be the top - it used to be an
unknown while Red Hat led the pack. Now Ubuntu is one of the top, but
who knows if one of those quiet leaders might come to the front.

I played with Ubuntu
several years ago, and wound up switching to it full time because I
hated Windows.

Specifically why did you hate Windows.
Did you hate Microsoft?
Viruses?
Security?
Cost?
Poor UI?
?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, as well as the fact that Linux gives far more
control over the system to techs like me. As Eric Raymond says, you
cannot learn how to become a hacker (as in the programmer, not the
criminal) on a proprietary operating system.

That said, I install Linux for people who cannot figure
out Window - as in total computer illiterate. I always give them my card
and full permission to call me if they can't figure something out.

So if they can't figure out Windows, what makes Linux different
enough that they can figure out Linux?

Unity's interface works better for them. It's pretty straight forward
for your average computer use. You can find software and install it
quickly with Ubuntu Software Center, without worrying about price.
Settings are obvious, programs are easily within reach.

For some, Unity is a nightmare. They prefer Windows. Great, that works
for them. I am not one of those people. It's all personal preference,
psychology, and the unique way people are wired mentally. Humans are by
no means predictable. There is no "Universal Serial User".

So far, I've only ever had three calls, and they were always "Oh!
Nevermind, I figured it out myself" when I call back.

But they can't figure out Windows?
Doesn't make sense.
Linux is far more complex and far less supported.
For example, you have never had a call asking how to connect an iPod
to Linux, sync, tag etc like iTunes does?

I find that incredible.

For what they are doing, everything is right there. Music? RhythmBox or
Banshee. Their Android devices just plugged in and worked out of the
box. No driver installation weirdness. Printer? Settings, add printer,
there it is! Print. Web? There's Firefox! Email? There's Thunderbird.
Documents? LibreOffice, New Document. Where'd I put my Christmas
shopping list? Dash, "Christmas shopping", oh, there it is.

Also, without the learning curve of anti-virus, defrag, scan disk, etc,
etc, they were less confused.

Plus, askubuntu.com actually has a lot of tutorials that are easy to
follow for most things non-obvious.

It's different for everyone. Most of these people wind up telling me how
much they LOVE Ubuntu and can't imagine ever using Windows again. I've
even overheard them recommending it to other friends.

Specifics please.

Again, they personally found it easier to use. No viruses. Less
document-devouring crashes. Updates happen quietly and efficiently in
the background. Also, can't beat free.

Beyond that, see above.

But, again, that was specific to their way of thinking and what they
needed to do. I always talked to them and showed them Ubuntu on my
machine, and let them decide. (I have been fixing Windows machines as
well since I was 12 years old...and I'm talking manually removing viruses.)

No operating system is everything to everyone, nor ever will be. But for
me and many people, tech and total-non tech, Linux is a heckovalot
better than Windows for our use. (And, by the way, I do some pretty
heavy-duty production stuff on this tux box.)

I write code for a living. We deal with audio editing, video editing,
animation, repository management, vector graphics, webmastering, and
business administration stuff at my company. We also don't feel like
spending several thousand dollars to do what can be done for free at the
exact same quality level. Plus, we like the UI, UNIX Bash, and the
software that runs on Linux.

(Besides that, I used Visual Studio long enough to learn to hate it for
a plethora of technical and preferential reasons. Don't ask for
specifics, it's a personal decision I made, and I'm one of many coders
who have.)

All in all, it comes down to a personal decision. If you like Windows or
Mac, good for you. Enjoy it. I won't stop you. But, as the old Indian
saying goes, "You don't know a man until you've walked a mile in his
moccasins." You can only speak for your own experience, and for the
experiences others have shared with you. That's all I can do, too.

So, why do I advocate Linux? Because it is right for SOME PEOPLE, and I
believe in showing everyone what Linux honestly is capable of. People
are able to make up their own minds, without us trying to convince them
of the evils of the opposition.

BRAVO!!!!

A FINE example of Linux advocacy!!

You need to stick around here for a while but be ready for the Linux
zealots to attack you because of your moderate opinion.
Shields Up!
Phasers on stun!

If more people like him showed up here, people like Peter der Klöwn and
Chris Ass Storm would disappear... they'd end up suffocated like the bad
weeds that they are. Thank you to the real advocates for reminding us
why we all fell in love with Linux in the first place.

How true.
It's refreshing to see people who can actually explain why they
prefer Linux for a change.
Nice.

On 6/21/15, 6:22 PM, in article , "Chris Ahlstrom"
wrote:

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

On 06/21/2015 03:59 PM, Tomas wrote:
For example, you have never had a call asking how to connect an iPod
to Linux, sync, tag etc like iTunes does?

The only Apple product I've ever owned is an iPod Shuffle that my boss
gave me one Christmas. I seldom use it but last week I decided to charge
it up and use it for a bike ride. When I plugged it into the USB port on
a SuSE 13.2 box it asked me if I wanted to synchronize it.

When I got it I rapidly found out it didn't appear as a mass storage
device like my other MP3 players, so I had to install iTunes on a
Windows laptop. What a joy that was to use that completely unintuitive
pile of dung.

Yeah, iTunes is pretty crappy. It'll get the job done if you stick with it,
and don't mind accidentally wiping out all your tunes now and then.

Wiping out? What?


--
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu: http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs? http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA
* Mint KDE working with folders: http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0
* Mint KDE creating files: http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8
* Mint KDE help: http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8
* Mint KDE general navigation: http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux: http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk
* OS / Word Processor Comparison: http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c

On 6/21/15, 6:23 PM, in article , "Slimer"
wrote:

All in all, it comes down to a personal decision. If you like Windows or
Mac, good for you. Enjoy it. I won't stop you. But, as the old Indian
saying goes, "You don't know a man until you've walked a mile in his
moccasins." You can only speak for your own experience, and for the
experiences others have shared with you. That's all I can do, too.

So, why do I advocate Linux? Because it is right for SOME PEOPLE, and I
believe in showing everyone what Linux honestly is capable of. People
are able to make up their own minds, without us trying to convince them
of the evils of the opposition.

BRAVO!!!!

A FINE example of Linux advocacy!!

You need to stick around here for a while but be ready for the Linux
zealots to attack you because of your moderate opinion.
Shields Up!
Phasers on stun!

If more people like him showed up here, people like Peter der Klöwn and
Chris Ass Storm would disappear... they'd end up suffocated like the bad
weeds that they are. Thank you to the real advocates for reminding us
why we all fell in love with Linux in the first place.

Good point. I wish *real* advocates would flood COLA. Would be great.


--
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu: http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs? http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA
* Mint KDE working with folders: http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0
* Mint KDE creating files: http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8
* Mint KDE help: http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8
* Mint KDE general navigation: http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux: http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk
* OS / Word Processor Comparison: http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 18:29:07 -0700, Snit wrote:

o

You're kidding.

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 8:10:56 PM UTC-5, Ignoramus11174 wrote:
On 2015-06-21, Tomas wrote:

But that's part of the problem. So many different Linux
distributions when the facts prove that most people choose from the
top 5 or so anyway. Wouldn't it make sense to focus and apply the
resources to those top distributions?

For regular people, desktop Linux is too complicated.

But, since I am now working with some very average people, what I am
learning is that they cannot use Windows either due to
viruses/spyware/malware/antiviruses. They are migrating to Apple and
Android for this reason, Windows is too hard to deal with due to
predatory software.

Windows is being abandoned at a very quick pace.

Android is also Linux, and is used by most people in the world who
have a computing device. In the sense of what is in the hands of most
people, Linux won via Android.

i

What do you think about Chrome OS. I'm using a Chromebook right now because I'm away from home where all my Windows, Linux, Android and BSD computers are. sniff I miss them. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Chrome Monster

On 6/21/15, 6:28 PM, in article ,
"Tomas" wrote:

So, why do I advocate Linux? Because it is right for SOME PEOPLE, and I
believe in showing everyone what Linux honestly is capable of. People
are able to make up their own minds, without us trying to convince them
of the evils of the opposition.

BRAVO!!!!

A FINE example of Linux advocacy!!

You need to stick around here for a while but be ready for the Linux
zealots to attack you because of your moderate opinion.
Shields Up!
Phasers on stun!

If more people like him showed up here, people like Peter der Klöwn and
Chris Ass Storm would disappear... they'd end up suffocated like the bad
weeds that they are. Thank you to the real advocates for reminding us
why we all fell in love with Linux in the first place.

How true.
It's refreshing to see people who can actually explain why they
prefer Linux for a change.
Nice.

How will the herd explain those they claim "hate Linux" are very happy to
see someone actually advocate for it?

Their narrative makes no sense.


--
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu: http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs? http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA
* Mint KDE working with folders: http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0
* Mint KDE creating files: http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8
* Mint KDE help: http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8
* Mint KDE general navigation: http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux: http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk
* OS / Word Processor Comparison: http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c

On 2015-06-21 9:27 PM, Tomas wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 21:22:10 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

On 06/21/2015 03:59 PM, Tomas wrote:
For example, you have never had a call asking how to connect an iPod
to Linux, sync, tag etc like iTunes does?

The only Apple product I've ever owned is an iPod Shuffle that my boss
gave me one Christmas. I seldom use it but last week I decided to charge
it up and use it for a bike ride. When I plugged it into the USB port on
a SuSE 13.2 box it asked me if I wanted to synchronize it.

When I got it I rapidly found out it didn't appear as a mass storage
device like my other MP3 players, so I had to install iTunes on a
Windows laptop. What a joy that was to use that completely unintuitive
pile of dung.

Yeah, iTunes is pretty crappy. It'll get the job done if you stick with it,
and don't mind accidentally wiping out all your tunes now and then.

iTunes sucks. Big time.
Load the plugin for foobar2000 and never look back.
If you want extensive tagging get Media Monkey.
Anything but iTunes.

MediaMonkey is *THE* best music management program I've ever used.


--
Slimer
Proud "wintroll"
Encrypt.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 17:27:34 -0400, Tomas wrote:

This one is hilarious. It's on a Linux centric site, written by a
Linux zealot yet because he tells the truth about Linux, admirable,
it really turns into a "why on earth would I want to run Linux" post.
Only he doesn't get it.
Like I said, hilarious.


http://news.softpedia.com/news/Is-It...m-484750.shtml
http://tinyurl.com/p5yn75s

This part is
hysterical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

A couple of hours a day and after a few months?
Is he ****ing kidding?
Most people don't last a day with Linux after trying it.

Like Android, you mean. Right. Send me all the useless
smartphones. You can keep the useless owners.
[]'s

PS I don't use Android, too complicated trying to figure out
what the apps are transmitting behind my back. Prefer Debian.
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 18:40:27 -0700, Snit wrote:

On 6/21/15, 6:28 PM, in article ,
"Tomas" wrote:

So, why do I advocate Linux? Because it is right for SOME PEOPLE, and I
believe in showing everyone what Linux honestly is capable of. People
are able to make up their own minds, without us trying to convince them
of the evils of the opposition.

BRAVO!!!!

A FINE example of Linux advocacy!!

You need to stick around here for a while but be ready for the Linux
zealots to attack you because of your moderate opinion.
Shields Up!
Phasers on stun!

If more people like him showed up here, people like Peter der Klöwn and
Chris Ass Storm would disappear... they'd end up suffocated like the bad
weeds that they are. Thank you to the real advocates for reminding us
why we all fell in love with Linux in the first place.

How true.
It's refreshing to see people who can actually explain why they
prefer Linux for a change.
Nice.

How will the herd explain those they claim "hate Linux" are very happy to
see someone actually advocate for it?

Their narrative makes no sense.

They can't.
They will re-group and attempt to discredit the intruder.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 22:57:32 -0300, Shadow wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 17:27:34 -0400, Tomas wrote:

This one is hilarious. It's on a Linux centric site, written by a
Linux zealot yet because he tells the truth about Linux, admirable,
it really turns into a "why on earth would I want to run Linux" post.
Only he doesn't get it.
Like I said, hilarious.


http://news.softpedia.com/news/Is-It...m-484750.shtml
http://tinyurl.com/p5yn75s

This part is
hysterical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

A couple of hours a day and after a few months?
Is he ****ing kidding?
Most people don't last a day with Linux after trying it.

Like Android, you mean. Right. Send me all the useless
smartphones. You can keep the useless owners.
[]'s

PS I don't use Android, too complicated trying to figure out
what the apps are transmitting behind my back. Prefer Debian.

Android is the biggest malware magnet on the planet.
Also most people running Android have no idea they are running Linux.

On 06/21/2015 07:30 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:



I've been using Linux for 15 years and switched to it as my full time OS
about five years ago.

Hey philo, have you ever fooled around with PC-BSD? Me and my brother have it loaded on some of our machines along with some of the computers having different flavors of Linux. If you have an extra drive laying around, give it a try. I haven't used the newest version of PC-BSD yet but was impressed by the older versions. 8-)

http://www.pcbsd.org/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC-BSD

[8~{} Uncle BSD Monster




Many years ago I fooled with just about any OS I could get my hands on,
and still have a machine in my workshop with a removable drive
kit...where I have something like 20 different operating systems.


Though I have not used PC-BSD I was running Free_BSD for a while.

I still have an OS/2 installation, Solaris and several versions of Linux...


and pretty much all versions of Windows going all the way back to version 1

If you like fooling with operating systems here is one of my geeky favorites

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/

On 2015-06-22, Tomas wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 20:10:52 -0500, Ignoramus11174 wrote:

On 2015-06-21, Tomas wrote:

But that's part of the problem. So many different Linux
distributions when the facts prove that most people choose from the
top 5 or so anyway. Wouldn't it make sense to focus and apply the
resources to those top distributions?

For regular people, desktop Linux is too complicated.

True.

But, since I am now working with some very average people, what I am
learning is that they cannot use Windows either due to
viruses/spyware/malware/antiviruses. They are migrating to Apple and
Android for this reason, Windows is too hard to deal with due to
predatory software.

Apple is solid but Android is a malware magnet.
Big disaster.


Windows is being abandoned at a very quick pace.

DESKTOP Windows is because technology is changing towards a more
portable centric model. Tablets etc.

Android is also Linux, and is used by most people in the world who
have a computing device. In the sense of what is in the hands of most
people, Linux won via Android.

They certainly won being the biggest target for malware.
Build it and they will come.

Unlike Windows, Android cannot install any program from just anywhere,
they have to come from the store. This does greatly curtail malware.

i

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 21:06:40 -0500, Ignoramus11174 wrote:

On 2015-06-22, Tomas wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 20:10:52 -0500, Ignoramus11174 wrote:

On 2015-06-21, Tomas wrote:

But that's part of the problem. So many different Linux
distributions when the facts prove that most people choose from the
top 5 or so anyway. Wouldn't it make sense to focus and apply the
resources to those top distributions?

For regular people, desktop Linux is too complicated.

True.

But, since I am now working with some very average people, what I am
learning is that they cannot use Windows either due to
viruses/spyware/malware/antiviruses. They are migrating to Apple and
Android for this reason, Windows is too hard to deal with due to
predatory software.

Apple is solid but Android is a malware magnet.
Big disaster.


Windows is being abandoned at a very quick pace.

DESKTOP Windows is because technology is changing towards a more
portable centric model. Tablets etc.

Android is also Linux, and is used by most people in the world who
have a computing device. In the sense of what is in the hands of most
people, Linux won via Android.

They certainly won being the biggest target for malware.
Build it and they will come.

Unlike Windows, Android cannot install any program from just anywhere,
they have to come from the store. This does greatly curtail malware.

i
You are misinformed.
And badly.
Do some research.

On 6/21/15, 6:57 PM, in article , "Slimer"
wrote:

When I got it I rapidly found out it didn't appear as a mass storage
device like my other MP3 players, so I had to install iTunes on a
Windows laptop. What a joy that was to use that completely unintuitive
pile of dung.

Yeah, iTunes is pretty crappy. It'll get the job done if you stick with it,
and don't mind accidentally wiping out all your tunes now and then.

iTunes sucks. Big time.
Load the plugin for foobar2000 and never look back.
If you want extensive tagging get Media Monkey.
Anything but iTunes.

MediaMonkey is *THE* best music management program I've ever used.

In what way? Would love to see an example of some of the things it does.


--
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu: http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs? http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA
* Mint KDE working with folders: http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0
* Mint KDE creating files: http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8
* Mint KDE help: http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8
* Mint KDE general navigation: http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux: http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk
* OS / Word Processor Comparison: http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 18:36:09 -0400, "Mayayana"
Gave us:

So what has all this got to do with home repair?
Do you just post willy nilly when something
strikes your fancy? Or are Linux fans perhaps
against houses?


The windows TROLL posted it, IDIOT. Use your brain. We merely
responded, you perhaps senseless ****.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 16:22:36 -0700, Snit
Gave us:

Would be great if the "advocates" could find places where Linux actually
benefits their productivity, efficiency, or error-reduction.

But they can't.

We efficiently peg idiots like as exactly what you are, DUMB****.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 16:41:52 -0700, Snit
Gave us:

I would love to see Linux get to the point of competing well...

You're a goddamned utter retard.

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 9:06:33 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 06/21/2015 07:30 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:



I've been using Linux for 15 years and switched to it as my full time OS
about five years ago.

Hey philo, have you ever fooled around with PC-BSD? Me and my brother have it loaded on some of our machines along with some of the computers having different flavors of Linux. If you have an extra drive laying around, give it a try. I haven't used the newest version of PC-BSD yet but was impressed by the older versions. 8-)

http://www.pcbsd.org/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC-BSD

[8~{} Uncle BSD Monster




Many years ago I fooled with just about any OS I could get my hands on,
and still have a machine in my workshop with a removable drive
kit...where I have something like 20 different operating systems.


Though I have not used PC-BSD I was running Free_BSD for a while.

I still have an OS/2 installation, Solaris and several versions of Linux....


and pretty much all versions of Windows going all the way back to version 1

If you like fooling with operating systems here is one of my geeky favorites

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/

Believe it or not, I have played around with it before and LMAO because the name reminded me of the old campy SciFi movie. ^_^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Outer_Space

[8~{} Uncle Space Monster

On 06/21/2015 06:43 PM, Snit wrote:
Curious what it is about KDE that you liked. I have used it some, and show
examples in my videos below, and thought it was an utter disaster.

NOT trying to talk you out of it... not at all - just curious what you like
about it.

It's just a desktop. I don't ask much of it and stay away from all the
eye candy crap. I'd also used mwm, fvwm, and iceWM, although they are
window managers rather than desktops although I've always found the
distinction blurry. About 15 years ago I used RedHat with the
Gnome/Sawfish setup if you want to talk about disasters.

The truth is you use what you are used to, and I switched to SuSE after
RedHat and SuSE defaults to KDE. Technically, I'd rather work with Qt
than Gtk+ although truth be told most of my GUI work is with Motif for
legacy reasons.

I like KMail and KNode although lately I've been using Thunderbird for
its cross platform capability.

If you look at my work machine on most days there will be 8 desktops
with KMail and Firefox on two of them. The balance are Konsoles and gVim
windows. Actually, my windows boxes are very similar although they don't
have eight desktops. I understand Windows 10 finally is going to do that
right. In addition, the Windows box might have Visual Studio and SQL
Server Management Studio open if I'm messing with databases. Rarely will
ArcDesktop be up for ESRI manipulation.

Okular, Foxit, LibreOffice or something else might be open if someone
insists on sending me documentation in pdf, doc, docx, xls, tiff, or
some other funky format. I do not create documents in any of those
formats; if it ain't a gVim plain text file it don't happen.

For the most part a working programmer is not representative of the
general computer user although we sometimes watch stupid cat videos.

On 06/21/2015 07:06 PM, Snit wrote:
Fair enough. I know developers who prefer Windows and those who prefer *nix
environments. I am not a developer and have no preference... and it likely
depends a lot on the type of development, etc.

A lot of our codebase is legacy C that uses Motif for the UI so it fits
well with Linux. For new standalone applications I switch to Visual
Studio and C# as well as maintaining some of the older C++ products. For
client side JavaScript I use gVim on whatever platform is handy. Server
side node.js is the same.

We use AndroidStudio for out tablet/phone products although I try to
stay away from that project on the theory too many cooks spoil the
broth. Others use Eclipse, but both of those are cross platform.

At the end of the day it's whatever works. I've been doing this since
the Hollerith card days on OS360 mainframes that were dumber than most
cellphones. People who climb into little niches tend to drop out. Or do
very well as companies scramble to hire the last living Visual Rexx
programmer.

On 06/21/2015 06:57 PM, Tomas wrote:
You need to stick around here for a while but be ready for the Linux
zealots to attack you because of your moderate opinion.

This will be the year of the Linux Desktop. Honest! I have to say it's
gotten much better in the last 15 years or so. I haven't tried to build
something from a tarball that had dependencies that could only be
satisfied by hunting down 15 other tarballs that were scattered from
hell to breakfast, each of which had their own weird little
dependencies.. Nor have I had to edit a file that each distro put in a
different place just to get my mouse to be left handed.

However when my sister in law dragged me into BestBuy to get a new
computer Linux did not pass my lips.

On 6/21/15, 8:38 PM, in article , "rbowman"
wrote:

On 06/21/2015 07:06 PM, Snit wrote:
Fair enough. I know developers who prefer Windows and those who prefer *nix
environments. I am not a developer and have no preference... and it likely
depends a lot on the type of development, etc.

A lot of our codebase is legacy C that uses Motif for the UI so it fits
well with Linux. For new standalone applications I switch to Visual
Studio and C# as well as maintaining some of the older C++ products. For
client side JavaScript I use gVim on whatever platform is handy. Server
side node.js is the same.

We use AndroidStudio for out tablet/phone products although I try to
stay away from that project on the theory too many cooks spoil the
broth. Others use Eclipse, but both of those are cross platform.

At the end of the day it's whatever works. I've been doing this since
the Hollerith card days on OS360 mainframes that were dumber than most
cellphones. People who climb into little niches tend to drop out. Or do
very well as companies scramble to hire the last living Visual Rexx
programmer.

Sounds like you are knowledgable and honest about pros / cons of Linux and
Windows, at least in the areas of development. Seriously, I hope you
continue to post to COLA, no matter your "home" group.


--
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu: http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs? http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA
* Mint KDE working with folders: http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0
* Mint KDE creating files: http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8
* Mint KDE help: http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8
* Mint KDE general navigation: http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux: http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk
* OS / Word Processor Comparison: http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c

On 06/21/2015 07:10 PM, Ignoramus11174 wrote:
Android is also Linux, and is used by most people in the world who
have a computing device. In the sense of what is in the hands of most
people, Linux won via Android.

More correctly, Android uses a subset of the Linux kernel. As Stallman
is quick to point out 'Linux' is really GNU/Linux since unless you're a
kernel programmer Linux itself is not very interesting.

On 06/21/2015 08:06 PM, Ignoramus11174 wrote:
Unlike Windows, Android cannot install any program from just anywhere,
they have to come from the store. This does greatly curtail malware.

Not so. You can sideload any apk your heart desires as well as rooting
the device. The Apple products are locked down much more tightly.

On 06/21/2015 07:40 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
What do you think about Chrome OS. I'm using a Chromebook right now because I'm away from home where all my Windows, Linux, Android and BSD computers are. sniff I miss them. o_O


IBM lives! Chrome OS has backed down a little but it started life as a
very thin client. aka a dumb ADM3 terminal connected to a mainframe.
IBM was not pleased when users could cut the umbilical cord and actually
having stuff running on their very own machines. So, these days, you
have all your software and data in the 'cloud' which is a mainframe on
steroids spread out who the hell knows where.

On 6/21/15, 8:18 PM, in article , "rbowman"
wrote:

On 06/21/2015 06:43 PM, Snit wrote:
Curious what it is about KDE that you liked. I have used it some, and show
examples in my videos below, and thought it was an utter disaster.

NOT trying to talk you out of it... not at all - just curious what you like
about it.

It's just a desktop. I don't ask much of it and stay away from all the
eye candy crap. I'd also used mwm, fvwm, and iceWM, although they are
window managers rather than desktops although I've always found the
distinction blurry. About 15 years ago I used RedHat with the
Gnome/Sawfish setup if you want to talk about disasters.

The truth is you use what you are used to, and I switched to SuSE after
RedHat and SuSE defaults to KDE. Technically, I'd rather work with Qt
than Gtk+ although truth be told most of my GUI work is with Motif for
legacy reasons.

I am one of the few who had not "what I was used to" - or at least less of
it. I did know the old Apple IIe systems, but I got a job working in a
computer lab and was there to assist people on Macs, PCs (DOS systems at the
time), and UNIX systems. I learned them all at the same time - though worked
less with the UNIX systems than the others.

I am not a programmer, but I teach and do tech work. I have a passion for
GUI issues and how one system compares to others in terms of benefiting
usability (productivity, efficiency, and error-reduction).

In other words: we look at the systems from somewhat different angles. And
that is fine.

I like KMail and KNode although lately I've been using Thunderbird for
its cross platform capability.

I used to use Thunderbird some and suggest it for my Windows clients... but
too many had issues with its rules and forwarding and more. Same with
Firefox... it seemed like it had a lot of promise but Mozilla seems to never
quite get to working out the quirks (even more so than other similar
software designers - in other words, they all have quirks).

If you look at my work machine on most days there will be 8 desktops
with KMail and Firefox on two of them. The balance are Konsoles and gVim
windows. Actually, my windows boxes are very similar although they don't
have eight desktops. I understand Windows 10 finally is going to do that
right. In addition, the Windows box might have Visual Studio and SQL
Server Management Studio open if I'm messing with databases. Rarely will
ArcDesktop be up for ESRI manipulation.

By desktops I assume you mean virtual desktops. I think for most people this
is a feature which is not much of a benefit, at least how it has generally
been done. For some types of power users, though, who benefit from being
able to configure multiple windows to open and close together, it has a
benefit.

OS X has a decent virtual desktop system with the added bonus that it ties
into full-screen applications. I see people using this part of it more more
than any other. Even then they tend to make a program go full screen and
then reduce it back to a window to get to other programs instead of swapping
"Spaces".

For the power user it does not, by default, let you name the "Spaces" - but
thankfully third party solutions exist to add that.

Okular, Foxit, LibreOffice or something else might be open if someone
insists on sending me documentation in pdf, doc, docx, xls, tiff, or
some other funky format. I do not create documents in any of those
formats; if it ain't a gVim plain text file it don't happen.

Sounds very "old school" - which is fine. And given that usage I can see
where Linux could work well.

I do a lot with screencasting - and not just recording the screen but doing
editing. Much of this is simply not possible on Linux (or would be much
harder): this includes being able to - in post production - hide or show the
mouse, resize the mouse, and even swap the mouse for a new image. Makes a
big difference in helping people to see where the mouse is. Also allows me
to resize the canvas to the size of the front window, show or hide key
strokes, etc. Just based on that being a common need of mine I could not use
Linux as my primary OS: even my videos of Linux are done with Linux running
in a VM so I can use those features (and then I cannot snap to the Linux
windows - the tool sees the VM as the window). But I can swap the mouse,
etc.

I also work with more advanced documents - my "Word Processor" comparison
video shows adding images and rotating them and the like. This is common in
many types of documents and, if possible at all, much harder on Linux.

So as much as I would like to be able to use Linux as a desktop system it
simply is not mature enough for my needs.

For the most part a working programmer is not representative of the
general computer user although we sometimes watch stupid cat videos.

LOL! Yes... and for that (web surfing) Linux is also a fine choice. Heck,
look at ChromeOS - while it has become a bit more, it is still largely a web
kiost (from what I know - I have not worked with it much).


--
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu: http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs? http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA
* Mint KDE working with folders: http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0
* Mint KDE creating files: http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8
* Mint KDE help: http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8
* Mint KDE general navigation: http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux: http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk
* OS / Word Processor Comparison: http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c

On 06/21/2015 07:32 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
I'm a Visual C++ 2013 programmer who targets Win8.
Besides games and clients that I wrote for myself
(Jeff-Relf.Me/X.ZIP), I simulate the incomes of
competing banks, for "the bankers" (ABA.COM).

My sympathy. Seriously I think even Stroustrup is wondering what evil he
unleashed. And, yes, I've used the language since Visual C++ 1.5 when I
couldn't find some other way to get the job done.

On 06/21/2015 10:33 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
Likewise, it takes a few minutes to
convert your code from C to C++.

There are a few well known problems, although I can't see a reason to
convert C to C++;

Why move to C++ ?
I like "int &Sq = Me ? MySq : HisSq",
"//" style comments, and declaring variables anywhere.

// and variable declarations anyplace have been supported since C99.
Most compilers have switches to control the pickiness. You can even use
K&R style function definitions if you so desire.

I'd lay part of the problem of some C++ code to the academics. It had
classes so they went out of their way to dream up unlikely ways to use
them, inheritance, and all that good stuff and wound up with
constructors and destructors from hell.

The one thing I do like are the containers even though those were sort
of an afterthought. One of the problems of living through the birth of
C++ is births tend to be messy, with a lot of it being syntactic sugar.

MFC was a quick and dirty attempt to wrap the C Windows API that lasted
well beyond its obsolescence.

On 6/21/15, 10:34 PM, in article , "rbowman"
wrote:

On 06/21/2015 10:33 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
Likewise, it takes a few minutes to
convert your code from C to C++.

There are a few well known problems, although I can't see a reason to
convert C to C++;

What about from C to Shining C?


--
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu: http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs? http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA
* Mint KDE working with folders: http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0
* Mint KDE creating files: http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8
* Mint KDE help: http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8
* Mint KDE general navigation: http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux: http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk
* OS / Word Processor Comparison: http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 11:04:03 PM UTC-5, rbowman wrote:
On 06/21/2015 07:40 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
What do you think about Chrome OS. I'm using a Chromebook right now because I'm away from home where all my Windows, Linux, Android and BSD computers are. sniff I miss them. o_O


IBM lives! Chrome OS has backed down a little but it started life as a
very thin client. aka a dumb ADM3 terminal connected to a mainframe.
IBM was not pleased when users could cut the umbilical cord and actually
having stuff running on their very own machines. So, these days, you
have all your software and data in the 'cloud' which is a mainframe on
steroids spread out who the hell knows where.

Actually, I think Chromie, my cute little 11.6 inch Chromebook is a cool dude. He weighs 3.0lb/1.6kg and is easy for me to handle in my weakened state here in my hospital bed at the nursing and rehab center. I have 15 and 17 inch laptops that I wish I could have here but I can't handle those beasts because both my shoulders are fuxored up. I call it my hospital trip computer. I have a laptop bag that fits it and there is enough room in the other compartments for my wallet, cell phone and charger, small paper notebook, medications, computer accessories, miscellaneous small items and some medical records. When I have to leave home for the hospital, I have everything in the bag which is easy to keep track of. The hospital and nursing homes have WiFi so there is no problem connecting to The Interweb. The Chromebook keeps me from going friggin bonkers because I can't see the TV all that well and I watch the news, TV shows and movies on Chromie, my constant and loyal companion who has never let me down. I'd recommend the setup to anyone who must make frequent trips to the hospital. I do want to add a second 2gb memory module because I tend to open too many tabs. What I have is an Acer C710-2833, 16gb SSD and 2gb memory. I am so glad I have the little critter. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Chrome Monster

On 21/06/2015 22:27, Tomas wrote:
This one is hilarious. It's on a Linux centric site, written by a
Linux zealot yet because he tells the truth about Linux, admirable,
it really turns into a "why on earth would I want to run Linux" post.
Only he doesn't get it.
Like I said, hilarious.


http://news.softpedia.com/news/Is-It...m-484750.shtml
http://tinyurl.com/p5yn75s

This part is
hysterical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

A couple of hours a day and after a few months?
Is he ****ing kidding?
Most people don't last a day with Linux after trying it.
Linux is that bad.

"The truth is that, at first, it will be hard, and you will encounter
many issues. Prepare to search the Internet for many tutorials, join
forums of the Linux distribution you're migrating to and ask
questions on how to do various things. My suggestion is to install
Linux on a different computer, or use a dual-boot setup - though many
will encounter issues with that - and access it from time to time,
1-2 hours per day, and after a few months, you will know if you can
really make the switch."


I've always said that if your time is worthless then Linux Desktop is a
good cheap alternative for Windows.