Snow storm, pulling down trees and wires. That's the cause
of the alleged outage which is reported to have cut power to
2.2 million people who some say exist.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 10/29/2011 7:14 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Lets hope they are OK. Sounds miserable. Hope the wall
street infestation packs up and goes home.


what is the cause of this alleged outage?

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

I also like oil (kerosene) lamps. The camping section of
Walmart, I did find a small funnel with screen in it. That
makes filling the lamps a lot easier, and less spill.

If you use oil bottles, please label them. Don't want to top
off you car with a quart of kerosene. I use windshield
washer fluid gallon jugs. Labelled with permanant wide point
marker "KERO".

You're right, that kero lamp are enough light to stumble
around. Three or four oil lamps per room is about right for
functioning.

The glass base ones have the advantage you can see how much
fuel is left. The metal ones can be carried. Though, now
days, I carry a flashlight when moving about.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
news
We were using a propane camping light, and LED flaslights.
Will go
and buy 1 or 2 propane ceramic heating stoves tomorrow.
With that I
think we could withstand several days of no power, and
it's
comsidrably cheaper than a $1000 generator. We used a
rather big
camping cooler with ice for the perishables.

Consider, too, a few kerosene lanterns. They're fairly cheap
(about $6). Buy
some kerosene and store it in re-used one-quart oil
containers. These
containers can be found in quantity in your neighborhood
auto parts store's
trash bin.

Kerosene lanterns don't put out a LOT of light, but enough
to stumble around
by.

One mother I messaged with called those "incendiary
breakables". A very real concern. In this case, those oil
lamps may result in death or dismemberment.

In your case, a good supply of batteries and flashlights is
called for. And one or more for the autistic child to blink
on and off, repeatedly until the parents go insane.

If you get the metal frame lamps, they can hang from a cup
hook. From the doorway, or from the ceiling. My trailer has
wood strips that conceal the seams of the ceiling panels.
Which strips are strong enough to screw a cup hook, and
support a lantern.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Han" wrote in message
...


Kerosene lanterns don't put out a LOT of light, but enough
to stumble
around by.

We have on occasion rambunctious little kids around (one is
on the
autistic spectrum - luckily, improving in social skills very
much
lately). Therefore I'd hate the combination of flames and
flammable
liquids around in my home. Other than that, I love
hurricane lanterns.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:j8m5l8
:

During winter power cuts, put the cold food in the cold
trunk of the car.

We just put the camping cooler just outside the door to the yard.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

wrote in
:

On 31 Oct 2011 13:31:43 GMT, Han wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
news:j8m5l8 :

During winter power cuts, put the cold food in the cold
trunk of the car.

We just put the camping cooler just outside the door to the yard.

That is fine until foraging animals find it (dogs, raccoons, possums
or bears)

We got raccoons (I think) and skunks. Not many possums, and (so far) no
bears.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Oct 31, 5:26*am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , Peter
wrote:

There seems to be a strong, almost ubiquitous correlation between right
wing political affiliation and insufficient intelligence to master basic
English grammar. *A "Democrat" is a person who is a member of the
Democratic Party. *The word "Democrat" is a noun. *When describing the
characteristics of a noun, in your example "Congress", we use
adjectives, i.e., "Democratic Congress".

Or are you all so petty that your best weapon is to intentionally be
irritating rather than rational?

Hey, you can't pick apart the logic, play Spelling Cop.

***"Spelling Copy? That is MY job! No salary, no perks, lots of
abuse.
little to show for efforts expended...

***But it's MY job and nobody else can have it! VBG

HB
....BUT IT'S MINE AND NOBODY ELSE CAN HAVE IT. ):

HB

On Oct 30, 2:46*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I think you mean the guy with the Spanish accent
who mows my lawn.

The Jesus of the Bible was a carpenter, like Joseph,
his father. He earned his keep.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"Country" wrote in message

...

Jesus? Ain't he the feller long ago that used to sponge off
of rich
married women all the time? Talk about a person that didn't
want to
work a real job. If one believed the conservative rhetoric
about
Liberals, shouldn't Jesus be our biggest hero?

-C-

A mistranslation of the Greek. He was a "tecton" (Handyman/builder).
As are you?

On Oct 30, 9:22*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
They would be better off in Washington, protesting for
repeal of the over regulation. The what I've heard of the
OWS crowd, they are liberals to the core.

BTW, I'm an ignorant right wing nut.

We know.

On Oct 30, 9:41*pm, Han wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:j8kf6k
:

I think you need immediate federal aid. A couple million to
start.

We were without power for 24 hrs. Many in 07410 and surrounding still are.. *
In my estimation tree damage compares to Irene, but most trees didn't come
down - just many smaller and bigger branches. *Some trees are likely too
damaged to survive. *We only had 4-5 inches total, and less was on the
ground at the end, but the damage is indeed bad. *Many power lines down
because of fallen tree branches.
While asking for federal aid has been bantered about in NJ, I'm not sure
that will be necessary. *I think that federal aid is mostly (low cost)
loans, and other than spoiled food and lost sales, most damage is in being
without power or from tree loss, not something for federal aid IMO.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Your storm has now arrived in the UK but as rain.

Han wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in
news
Han wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

snip

We were using a propane camping light, and LED flaslights. Will go
and buy 1 or 2 propane ceramic heating stoves tomorrow. With that I
think we could withstand several days of no power, and it's
comsidrably cheaper than a $1000 generator. We used a rather big
camping cooler with ice for the perishables.

Consider, too, a few kerosene lanterns. They're fairly cheap (about
$6). Buy some kerosene and store it in re-used one-quart oil
containers. These containers can be found in quantity in your
neighborhood auto parts store's trash bin.

Kerosene lanterns don't put out a LOT of light, but enough to stumble
around by.

We have on occasion rambunctious little kids around (one is on the
autistic spectrum - luckily, improving in social skills very much
lately). Therefore I'd hate the combination of flames and flammable
liquids around in my home. Other than that, I love hurricane
lanterns.

Use a coat-hanger and suspend them from the ceiling fixtures.

"HeyBub" wrote in
m:

Han wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in
news
Han wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

snip

We were using a propane camping light, and LED flaslights. Will go
and buy 1 or 2 propane ceramic heating stoves tomorrow. With that I
think we could withstand several days of no power, and it's
comsidrably cheaper than a $1000 generator. We used a rather big
camping cooler with ice for the perishables.

Consider, too, a few kerosene lanterns. They're fairly cheap (about
$6). Buy some kerosene and store it in re-used one-quart oil
containers. These containers can be found in quantity in your
neighborhood auto parts store's trash bin.

Kerosene lanterns don't put out a LOT of light, but enough to stumble
around by.

We have on occasion rambunctious little kids around (one is on the
autistic spectrum - luckily, improving in social skills very much
lately). Therefore I'd hate the combination of flames and flammable
liquids around in my home. Other than that, I love hurricane
lanterns.

Use a coat-hanger and suspend them from the ceiling fixtures.

I'll do it my way, and avoid having the giants in the family bump their
heads. I'm the shorty at 5'9".


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Peter wrote:
On 10/30/2011 4:53 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:

The Democrat Congress at the time (although the final votes
were fairly bipartisan) decided that Executive Compensation was
getting out of hand and they Must Put A Stop To That. So, they
effectively capped the salary of the top executives at a $1 million
dollars by making that the top amount that could be deducted (BTW:
If you look at the annual reports you will see that even to today
most salaries are around a $1 million or so).

There seems to be a strong, almost ubiquitous correlation between
right wing political affiliation and insufficient intelligence to
master basic English grammar. A "Democrat" is a person who is a
member of the Democratic Party. The word "Democrat" is a noun. When
describing the characteristics of a noun, in your example "Congress",
we use adjectives, i.e., "Democratic Congress".

Or are you all so petty that your best weapon is to intentionally be
irritating rather than rational?

Democrats are governed by emotion, as in "I feel your pain." Using
"democrat" instead of "democratic" is a cheap way to get progressives
exercised (see above as an example). It is believed by some that excessive
adrenaline will cause a deadly form of warts to spring up thereby
diminishing the number of democratics among us.

Oh, by the way, the official website of the democrats is www.democrats.org.

Very good answer. That, or cup hooks.

Actually, I do have in my truck a glass jar candle, and a
chunk of copper wire. Figure I can bend a hanger, and hang
it from the rearview mirror if I am off the road during a
snow storm.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...


We have on occasion rambunctious little kids around (one
is on the
autistic spectrum - luckily, improving in social skills
very much
lately). Therefore I'd hate the combination of flames and
flammable
liquids around in my home. Other than that, I love
hurricane
lanterns.

Use a coat-hanger and suspend them from the ceiling
fixtures.

On 10/31/2011 5:37 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Very good answer. That, or cup hooks.

Actually, I do have in my truck a glass jar candle, and a
chunk of copper wire. Figure I can bend a hanger, and hang
it from the rearview mirror if I am off the road during a
snow storm.


Unless your truck is real old with an actual rod supporting the mirror,
not a good idea. Those buttons sticking mirror to windshield love to let
go at bad times, and I'm sure glass being cold and mirror being heated
from the burning candle, could be a trigger, especially if you wake up
suddenly and bump your chandelier. Better to pull off dome light lens,
and hand from there, or maybe the arm holding the sunvisor. I'd go with
an extra coat, a space blanket or suntanning blanket (if such things
still exist) and a baggie of HF flashlights.

--
aem sends...

My mother's place in CT went 7+ days without utility power. I got up
there Tuesday evening, cleared the trees from the driveway and got the
generator going. Spent the next couple days removing more trees /
branches and patching two holes in the roof where big branches hit.
About 10pm Sat evening a crew from MO was by and repaired the damaged
drop (snapped neutral), and a few hours later they had repaired enough
along the street to get power back on. All in all one of the nastier CT
storms in my 41 years of experience, but there have been similar in the
past so it's certainly not unprecedented.

I'm glad there are good men such as yourself. Who come to
the aid of their family.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Pete C." wrote in message
.com...

My mother's place in CT went 7+ days without utility power.
I got up
there Tuesday evening, cleared the trees from the driveway
and got the
generator going. Spent the next couple days removing more
trees /
branches and patching two holes in the roof where big
branches hit.
About 10pm Sat evening a crew from MO was by and repaired
the damaged
drop (snapped neutral), and a few hours later they had
repaired enough
along the street to get power back on. All in all one of the
nastier CT
storms in my 41 years of experience, but there have been
similar in the
past so it's certainly not unprecedented.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:j9e1q7
:

I'm glad there are good men such as yourself. Who come to
the aid of their family.

I second that statement. We are all in this together, and we need to help
our communities.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Pete C." wrote in
.com:


My mother's place in CT went 7+ days without utility power. I got up
there Tuesday evening, cleared the trees from the driveway and got the
generator going. Spent the next couple days removing more trees /
branches and patching two holes in the roof where big branches hit.
About 10pm Sat evening a crew from MO was by and repaired the damaged
drop (snapped neutral), and a few hours later they had repaired enough
along the street to get power back on. All in all one of the nastier CT
storms in my 41 years of experience, but there have been similar in the
past so it's certainly not unprecedented.


Here in Florida,utilities trim trees away from power lines well before
hurricane season begins. Preparedness.

did Northeast utilities NOT expect winter storms to bring down tree
branches and down power lines?
After all,this was just an early storm. tree branches would have caused
troubles anyways,just later on.

BTW,I went without power for 7 days in Aug 2004,after Hurricane Charlie.
(in steamy Florida,90+ temps and humidity every day.
Other buildings in my apartment complex were without power for 30 days,they
had a meter panel short out from water blown into it.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Family and church, I'll pitch in to help. Neighbors, prefer
to teach them skills and let them help themselves. I don't
want to be everyone's welfare agency. The rally cry should
be "get to work", not "Get Chris over here to fix it".

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Han" wrote in message
...

I second that statement. We are all in this together, and
we need to help
our communities.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

I'm curious some of the techniques you used to adjust, and
cope. Did the cold water stay on? Do your windows open?
Battery fan?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
4...

Here in Florida,utilities trim trees away from power lines
well before
hurricane season begins. Preparedness.

did Northeast utilities NOT expect winter storms to bring
down tree
branches and down power lines?
After all,this was just an early storm. tree branches would
have caused
troubles anyways,just later on.

BTW,I went without power for 7 days in Aug 2004,after
Hurricane Charlie.
(in steamy Florida,90+ temps and humidity every day.
Other buildings in my apartment complex were without power
for 30 days,they
had a meter panel short out from water blown into it.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Jim Yanik wrote in
4:

Here in Florida,utilities trim trees away from power lines well before
hurricane season begins. Preparedness.

They do spmoe of that here in NJ. AAMOF, they had just severely (and in
a very ugly way) trimmed trees away from a major power transmission line
along Pollitt Drive and the railroad (diesel trains).

did Northeast utilities NOT expect winter storms to bring down tree
branches and down power lines?
After all,this was just an early storm. tree branches would have
caused troubles anyways,just later on.

Yes, and no. Almost all our trees were still in full leaf. The damage
was "solely" due to the trees unable to support the weight of the heavy
wet snow on the fully leafed branches.

BTW,I went without power for 7 days in Aug 2004,after Hurricane
Charlie. (in steamy Florida,90+ temps and humidity every day.
Other buildings in my apartment complex were without power for 30
days,they had a meter panel short out from water blown into it.

I'm not relishing being without power when it's hot and humid, but
without power when it is really cold scares me.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:33:35 -0600, Jim Yanik wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in
s.com:


My mother's place in CT went 7+ days without utility power. I got up
there Tuesday evening, cleared the trees from the driveway and got the
generator going. Spent the next couple days removing more trees /
branches and patching two holes in the roof where big branches hit.
About 10pm Sat evening a crew from MO was by and repaired the damaged
drop (snapped neutral), and a few hours later they had repaired enough
along the street to get power back on. All in all one of the nastier CT
storms in my 41 years of experience, but there have been similar in the
past so it's certainly not unprecedented.


Here in Florida,utilities trim trees away from power lines well before
hurricane season begins. Preparedness.

did Northeast utilities NOT expect winter storms to bring down tree
branches and down power lines?
After all,this was just an early storm. tree branches would have caused
troubles anyways,just later on.

No, it wasn't "just an early storm". Significant snow storms early enough to
have the trees still in full leaf are fairly rare. Once the leaves are off
the trees they're fine for 10x the storm; nothing to stick to.

BTW,I went without power for 7 days in Aug 2004,after Hurricane Charlie.
(in steamy Florida,90+ temps and humidity every day.

That's a little different than being without power when it's below freezing.
BTDT.

Other buildings in my apartment complex were without power for 30 days,they
had a meter panel short out from water blown into it.

Yes, when I lived in NY we had a foot of wet, sloppy, snow on Oct 4 (my son's
9th birthday). We were without power for three days. Some, living in less
populated areas were without for a month. Several years later a three-day ice
storm in VT caused widespread outages, for some, weeks. We lived just high
enough (100' mattered) that it melted during the day so didn't build up. We
were *very* lucky to escape without interruption that time.

Jim Yanik writes:

"Pete C." wrote in
.com:


My mother's place in CT went 7+ days without utility power. I got up
there Tuesday evening, cleared the trees from the driveway and got the
generator going. Spent the next couple days removing more trees /
branches and patching two holes in the roof where big branches hit.
About 10pm Sat evening a crew from MO was by and repaired the damaged
drop (snapped neutral), and a few hours later they had repaired enough
along the street to get power back on. All in all one of the nastier CT
storms in my 41 years of experience, but there have been similar in the
past so it's certainly not unprecedented.


Here in Florida,utilities trim trees away from power lines well before
hurricane season begins. Preparedness.

did Northeast utilities NOT expect winter storms to bring down tree
branches and down power lines?
After all,this was just an early storm. tree branches would have caused
troubles anyways,just later on.

I was out of power for 6 days (NJ).
Just last summer the town sent crews throughout the town removing
branches and trees near power lines.

Snow on trees with leaves and you have a first class disaster.

I took a walk and was impressed by how many people had generators
with power lines running over to neighbors houses.

My neighbor did the same for me. In turn I showed him how to
hook the generator to the furnace instead of the space heaters
he was using. Also bought the gas.

Our power was restored by Ohio Edison.

A good example of people helping other people.

--
Dan Espen

"Pete C." wrote in message
.com...

My mother's place in CT went 7+ days without utility power. I got up
there Tuesday evening, cleared the trees from the driveway and got the
generator going. Spent the next couple days removing more trees /
branches and patching two holes in the roof where big branches hit.
About 10pm Sat evening a crew from MO was by and repaired the damaged
drop (snapped neutral), and a few hours later they had repaired enough
along the street to get power back on. All in all one of the nastier CT
storms in my 41 years of experience, but there have been similar in the
past so it's certainly not unprecedented.

Isn't it time for a rethink of this problem? The 3-wire electric lines to
homes in the U.S. is sometimes called an "Edison Connection" because it
dates from Edison's time. The same for the poles, transformers and other
local distribution equipment. All of it sensitive to wind, snow, ice,
falling trees, etc. I think we can do better.

Also, does it make sense for local utilities, with aid from other utilities
depending upon the size of the disaster, to be expected to handle the
massive repair task. Maybe that should be done with a large regional pool
of equipment and people that's set up to get places fast.

What we know is that these disasters seem to be coming more frequently and
increasing numbers of people are being put at risk and hardship -- and it's
costing a lot of money. That says we should be thinking of better ways to
address the problem.

TKM

I'm glad some folks shared. That's neighborly. During my
year 2003 power cut, one neighbor ran space heaters off a
generator. I told him that was ineffective use of power.
Offered to wire his furnace, but he refused. You were kind
to offer, and your neighbor was wise to accept.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

I was out of power for 6 days (NJ).
Just last summer the town sent crews throughout the town
removing
branches and trees near power lines.

Snow on trees with leaves and you have a first class
disaster.

I took a walk and was impressed by how many people had
generators
with power lines running over to neighbors houses.

My neighbor did the same for me. In turn I showed him how
to
hook the generator to the furnace instead of the space
heaters
he was using. Also bought the gas.

Our power was restored by Ohio Edison.

A good example of people helping other people.

--
Dan Espen

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Lets hope they are OK. Sounds miserable. Hope the wall
street infestation packs up and goes home.

We had four MILLION people without power when Hurricane Yikes hit three
years ago, some as long as two weeks.

The ghastly thing was that gas stations were ALSO without power, so there
was no way to get generator food.

So here's the tip: When you get advance notice of a weather emergency, fill
up all your gas cans (I have ten, 6-gallon containers and a half-dozen
smaller ones).

You can always dump the gas in the car if you don't need it for the
generator.

"HeyBub" wrote in
m:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Lets hope they are OK. Sounds miserable. Hope the wall
street infestation packs up and goes home.

We had four MILLION people without power when Hurricane Yikes hit
three years ago, some as long as two weeks.

The ghastly thing was that gas stations were ALSO without power, so
there was no way to get generator food.

So here's the tip: When you get advance notice of a weather emergency,
fill up all your gas cans (I have ten, 6-gallon containers and a
half-dozen smaller ones).

You can always dump the gas in the car if you don't need it for the
generator.

Why didn't any gas stations have generators?


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"TKM" wrote in message ...


"Pete C." wrote in message
.com...

My mother's place in CT went 7+ days without utility power. I got up
there Tuesday evening, cleared the trees from the driveway and got the
generator going. Spent the next couple days removing more trees /
branches and patching two holes in the roof where big branches hit.
About 10pm Sat evening a crew from MO was by and repaired the damaged
drop (snapped neutral), and a few hours later they had repaired enough
along the street to get power back on. All in all one of the nastier CT
storms in my 41 years of experience, but there have been similar in the
past so it's certainly not unprecedented.

Isn't it time for a rethink of this problem? The 3-wire electric lines to
homes in the U.S. is sometimes called an "Edison Connection" because it
dates from Edison's time. The same for the poles, transformers and other
local distribution equipment. All of it sensitive to wind, snow, ice,
falling trees, etc. I think we can do better.

Also, does it make sense for local utilities, with aid from other utilities
depending upon the size of the disaster, to be expected to handle the
massive repair task. Maybe that should be done with a large regional pool
of equipment and people that's set up to get places fast.

What we know is that these disasters seem to be coming more frequently and
increasing numbers of people are being put at risk and hardship -- and it's
costing a lot of money. That says we should be thinking of better ways to
address the problem.

TKM

Think underground!

JAS

"Stormin Mormon" writes:

I'm glad some folks shared. That's neighborly. During my
year 2003 power cut, one neighbor ran space heaters off a
generator.
I told him that was ineffective use of power.
Offered to wire his furnace, but he refused. You were kind
to offer, and your neighbor was wise to accept.

I never had access to a generator before but after a few hours
it occurred to me that a space heater was the wrong way to go.

My guess is that the pump on a hot water system takes a lot
less power than a space heater.

--
Dan Espen

wrote in :

"Stormin Mormon" writes:

I'm glad some folks shared. That's neighborly. During my
year 2003 power cut, one neighbor ran space heaters off a
generator.
I told him that was ineffective use of power.
Offered to wire his furnace, but he refused. You were kind
to offer, and your neighbor was wise to accept.

I never had access to a generator before but after a few hours
it occurred to me that a space heater was the wrong way to go.

My guess is that the pump on a hot water system takes a lot
less power than a space heater.

But, but , but ...
A generator would be fine, if the price wasn't so high. Moreover, those
gas generators are very noisy, require maintenance and a supply of fairly
fresh (and flammable) gasoline. A propane or NG generator would be
better on some of those aspects, but cost more.

Generator: $500-$1,000 depending on requirements, sales, etc.

So I bought a propane-fired space heater for ~$125 with a long line and a
filter for the propane. We should be able to withstand a 1-2 day absence
of heat with the 2 propane tanks we have. Moreover, propane refilling is
within a 5 min drive from my house, and doesn't require a power source
(maybe "their" register does, but maybe they'll let me just pay).

Mind you, I'm not going to hold my breath until the next power outage,
but I do know it'll come.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 09 Nov 2011 21:11:20 GMT, Han wrote:




The ghastly thing was that gas stations were ALSO without power, so
there was no way to get generator food.




Why didn't any gas stations have generators?

Same reason they don't here. They cost money and the station
operators don't see a payback in most cases. CT is considering a
couple of new laws that will required at least some stations to have
generators.

I imagine it could be a $3000 to $6000 investment to do it and while
the oil companies are making money, the local station owner is on a
thin margin.

On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 16:15:20 -0500, "John Simpson"




Also, does it make sense for local utilities, with aid from other utilities
depending upon the size of the disaster, to be expected to handle the
massive repair task. Maybe that should be done with a large regional pool
of equipment and people that's set up to get places fast.



They do things like that, but in the case of our CT power company,
they did not commit in advance because they did not want to pay for
standby if they were not needed.

What we know is that these disasters seem to be coming more frequently and
increasing numbers of people are being put at risk and hardship -- and it's
costing a lot of money. That says we should be thinking of better ways to
address the problem.

TKM

Think underground!

JAS


It has been talked about but is very expensive. Many new developments
are underground,but some existing poles look like a nightmare to re-do
with all the lines on them.

It is not just a matter of laying them in conduit. The wires produce
heat, rodent problems, digging problems, etc. I'd like to see what
the cost of it is and how long it would take to do.

On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:33:35 -0600, Jim Yanik
wrote:




did Northeast utilities NOT expect winter storms to bring down tree
branches and down power lines?
After all,this was just an early storm. tree branches would have caused
troubles anyways,just later on.


The branches still have leaves and the snow was wet and heavy. Normal
winter, it is not a problem. We just had a tropical storm that took
down many branches and trees too!

The other problem is the utility commission. CL&P wanted to increase
their budget for tree trimming, but the UC shot it down. Lots of
blame to go around.

We should not be planting trees so close to lines either.

"John Simpson" wrote in message ...


"TKM" wrote in message ...


"Pete C." wrote in message
.com...

My mother's place in CT went 7+ days without utility power. I got up
there Tuesday evening, cleared the trees from the driveway and got the
generator going. Spent the next couple days removing more trees /
branches and patching two holes in the roof where big branches hit.
About 10pm Sat evening a crew from MO was by and repaired the damaged
drop (snapped neutral), and a few hours later they had repaired enough
along the street to get power back on. All in all one of the nastier CT
storms in my 41 years of experience, but there have been similar in the
past so it's certainly not unprecedented.

Isn't it time for a rethink of this problem? The 3-wire electric lines to
homes in the U.S. is sometimes called an "Edison Connection" because it
dates from Edison's time. The same for the poles, transformers and other
local distribution equipment. All of it sensitive to wind, snow, ice,
falling trees, etc. I think we can do better.

Also, does it make sense for local utilities, with aid from other utilities
depending upon the size of the disaster, to be expected to handle the
massive repair task. Maybe that should be done with a large regional pool
of equipment and people that's set up to get places fast.

What we know is that these disasters seem to be coming more frequently and
increasing numbers of people are being put at risk and hardship -- and it's
costing a lot of money. That says we should be thinking of better ways to
address the problem.

TKM

Think underground!

JAS


The number 1 problem in our area are trees and people.

Not long ago our local newspaper editorial section was filled with tree-hugger nutcakes bitching about the power company "butchering" their precious trees under the power lines.

Yet after a recent 35mph wind followed by a 2 day power outage, those same ****ing tree-hugger nutcakes were bitching because the power was out due to falling tree branches breaking the wires.

Personally, I got tired of all the outages so I had an automatic Generac installed.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

I'm glad there are good men such as yourself. Who come to
the aid of their family.

After things were stabilized there, we bailed out and I moved her down
to Texas. We'll go up in the spring to finish the move and sell the
place. Texas is *way* better than Connecticut.


--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Pete C." wrote in message
.com...

My mother's place in CT went 7+ days without utility power.
I got up
there Tuesday evening, cleared the trees from the driveway
and got the
generator going. Spent the next couple days removing more
trees /
branches and patching two holes in the roof where big
branches hit.
About 10pm Sat evening a crew from MO was by and repaired
the damaged
drop (snapped neutral), and a few hours later they had
repaired enough
along the street to get power back on. All in all one of the
nastier CT
storms in my 41 years of experience, but there have been
similar in the
past so it's certainly not unprecedented.

Jim Yanik wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in
.com:


My mother's place in CT went 7+ days without utility power. I got up
there Tuesday evening, cleared the trees from the driveway and got the
generator going. Spent the next couple days removing more trees /
branches and patching two holes in the roof where big branches hit.
About 10pm Sat evening a crew from MO was by and repaired the damaged
drop (snapped neutral), and a few hours later they had repaired enough
along the street to get power back on. All in all one of the nastier CT
storms in my 41 years of experience, but there have been similar in the
past so it's certainly not unprecedented.


Here in Florida,utilities trim trees away from power lines well before
hurricane season begins. Preparedness.

did Northeast utilities NOT expect winter storms to bring down tree
branches and down power lines?
After all,this was just an early storm. tree branches would have caused
troubles anyways,just later on.

BTW,I went without power for 7 days in Aug 2004,after Hurricane Charlie.
(in steamy Florida,90+ temps and humidity every day.
Other buildings in my apartment complex were without power for 30 days,they
had a meter panel short out from water blown into it.

They routinely trim trees in CT, however this storm was early season
when there were leaves on the trees, the trees were weaker since they
were not frozen and the snow was wet, heavy and sticky. It took down
whole trees that crashed through the lines even though the branches on
them had been trimmed back clear of the lines. I saw a place with a
steep hill back from the poles, and trees back there far from the poles
fell over through the lines and smashed everything to the ground,
shattered cross arms, insulators and even the phone lines all on the
ground.

Han wrote:

wrote in :

"Stormin Mormon" writes:

I'm glad some folks shared. That's neighborly. During my
year 2003 power cut, one neighbor ran space heaters off a
generator.
I told him that was ineffective use of power.
Offered to wire his furnace, but he refused. You were kind
to offer, and your neighbor was wise to accept.

I never had access to a generator before but after a few hours
it occurred to me that a space heater was the wrong way to go.

My guess is that the pump on a hot water system takes a lot
less power than a space heater.

But, but , but ...
A generator would be fine, if the price wasn't so high. Moreover, those
gas generators are very noisy, require maintenance and a supply of fairly
fresh (and flammable) gasoline. A propane or NG generator would be
better on some of those aspects, but cost more.

Generator: $500-$1,000 depending on requirements, sales, etc.

Easily covered by the savings from a single frozen pipe or lost fridge
and freezer full of food incident.


So I bought a propane-fired space heater for ~$125 with a long line and a
filter for the propane. We should be able to withstand a 1-2 day absence
of heat with the 2 propane tanks we have. Moreover, propane refilling is
within a 5 min drive from my house, and doesn't require a power source
(maybe "their" register does, but maybe they'll let me just pay).

Every propane filling operation I've seen requires power. They pump the
liquid propane from the big tank to the small tank.

On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 16:15:20 -0500, "John Simpson"
wrote:



"TKM" wrote in message ...


"Pete C." wrote in message
s.com...

My mother's place in CT went 7+ days without utility power. I got up
there Tuesday evening, cleared the trees from the driveway and got the
generator going. Spent the next couple days removing more trees /
branches and patching two holes in the roof where big branches hit.
About 10pm Sat evening a crew from MO was by and repaired the damaged
drop (snapped neutral), and a few hours later they had repaired enough
along the street to get power back on. All in all one of the nastier CT
storms in my 41 years of experience, but there have been similar in the
past so it's certainly not unprecedented.

Isn't it time for a rethink of this problem? The 3-wire electric lines to
homes in the U.S. is sometimes called an "Edison Connection" because it
dates from Edison's time. The same for the poles, transformers and other
local distribution equipment. All of it sensitive to wind, snow, ice,
falling trees, etc. I think we can do better.

What's your solution?

Also, does it make sense for local utilities, with aid from other utilities
depending upon the size of the disaster, to be expected to handle the
massive repair task. Maybe that should be done with a large regional pool
of equipment and people that's set up to get places fast.

That's what they have. That "regional pool" is the utilities themselves it's
not just "regional". They'll take people and equipment from North Dakota to
clean up after hurricanes. Why another useless and expensive bureaucracy?

What we know is that these disasters seem to be coming more frequently and
increasing numbers of people are being put at risk and hardship -- and it's
costing a lot of money. That says we should be thinking of better ways to
address the problem.

It's your imagination (and the TeeVee Nooz cycle).

Think underground!

You voted for Obama, right?

On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:02:26 -0600, "HeyBub" wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Lets hope they are OK. Sounds miserable. Hope the wall
street infestation packs up and goes home.

We had four MILLION people without power when Hurricane Yikes hit three
years ago, some as long as two weeks.

The ghastly thing was that gas stations were ALSO without power, so there
was no way to get generator food.

So here's the tip: When you get advance notice of a weather emergency, fill
up all your gas cans (I have ten, 6-gallon containers and a half-dozen
smaller ones).

Better tip: When you get advanced notice of a weather emergency, fill your
tank's car and drive to anyhere else.

You can always dump the gas in the car if you don't need it for the
generator.

You can always call it a vacation.

On Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:00:46 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 09 Nov 2011 21:11:20 GMT, Han wrote:




The ghastly thing was that gas stations were ALSO without power, so
there was no way to get generator food.




Why didn't any gas stations have generators?

Same reason they don't here. They cost money and the station
operators don't see a payback in most cases. CT is considering a
couple of new laws that will required at least some stations to have
generators.

I imagine it could be a $3000 to $6000 investment to do it and while
the oil companies are making money, the local station owner is on a
thin margin.

In many (most?) cases the local station doesn't own the gas franchise. He
makes his money on slurpees and the couple of cents the oil company pays him.