On 10/2/2011 10:48 AM, Home Guy wrote:
h wrote:

Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner. I get back at least $750 a year
from my BoA credit card and I never pay them one thin dime.

Where do you think they're getting this money to pay you?

They're getting it from retailers who are paying increasing amounts for
CC processing charges and in turn they are raising the price you pay for
retail goods to compensate.

I'd imagine they get a good chunk of their cashflow from people dumb or
desperate enough to carry a balance on their cards. Some CC rates, if
the balance is carried too long, make a payday loan place or loan shark,
look cheap.

--
aem sends...

On 02 Oct 2011 12:27:02 GMT, Han wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in
:

Dick Durbin offered and amendment to the Dodd-Franks financial reform
act which limited the interchage fee banks can charge on debit card
transactions to 22-25 cents per swipe. Prior to that, the average fee
to the merchant was 44 cents per swipe.

As a result of this Durbin provision, banks will experience an
estimated loss of $8 billion annually. I'm guessing BoA will take
about $2 billion of that hit.

Well, actually $8 (or $2) billion LESS profit, not a loss in the bottom
line, IMNSHO!

A distinction without a difference. It's still a loss that they can't take.

When you lose a $2 billion revenue stream, with no corresponding drop
in expenses, you've got to make up the revenue elsewhere.

On the plus side, merchants will pay less to honor debit cards thereby
resulting in dramatically lowered prices for the consumer. Look for
these massive price reductions beginning today (Oct 1st).

Sarcasm duely noted!
Banks should strive more to give honest service, with less beancounter
emphasis on profit. Then the profits will come automagically.

Silly.

On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 21:58:46 -0700, SMS wrote:

On 10/1/2011 5:37 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

A *long* time ago, CUs weren't allowed to clear checks through the system.
They got around it by affiliating with a bank and issuing "drafts". Same
thing, usually. That changed at least 20 years ago, though. CUs also can't
do commercial accounts, so there are some differences but for most, CUs are
the way to go.

I have a commercial account at a credit union. In fact they told me they
could no longer accept checks made out to my business into my personal
CU account anymore (they had been able to do that previously) and said
that it could only be done in a commercial account. All they needed was
my fictitious name notice to open the commercial account.

I didn't know they'd changed that. Interesting. No wonder the commercial
banks are ****ed at CUs.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 10:36:19 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

SMS wrote:

I have a commercial account at a credit union.

Ok, you have a commercial account.

they told me they could no longer accept checks made out to my
business into my personal CU account anymore

But you have a commercial account. Why are you depositing business
checks into your personal account?

and said that it could only be done in a commercial account.

Well, that's ok - isin't it? After all, you do have one. You said you
did.

Try reading, for once. He *DID* have a personal account and was depositing
business checks to it. They said he could no longer do that, but would have
to open a commercial account. He did. All is right with the world. Got it?

All they needed was my fictitious name notice

What is a "name notice" ?

A "fictitious name notice". It's also called a DBA ("Doing Business As").
It's the form that allows him to do business under a name other than his
(non-fiction name).

to open the commercial account.

But wait - you already have a commercial account. ?!

Good grief! Learn to read!

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 10:15:01 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
"h" wrote:


over $5 and put every bill I pay online on the card and pay it off every
month. Couldn't be easier and I never have to worry about fees or
over-drawing my checking account. Plus, if your debit card is stolen and
your account drained, the bank has no obligation to return your money. If
someone steals your credit card (or even just the info) you're not
responsible for the charges.

And because of this, the CC issuer's fraud units seem to be more
vigilant (sometimes TOO vigilant probably) in keeping an eye on the
accounts and freezing them.

Too vigilant? I don't think so, at all. They're pretty damned lax, as far as
I'm concerned. What's your beef?

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 10:48:29 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

h wrote:

Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner. I get back at least $750 a year
from my BoA credit card and I never pay them one thin dime.

Where do you think they're getting this money to pay you?

From suckers, like you.

They're getting it from retailers who are paying increasing amounts for
CC processing charges and in turn they are raising the price you pay for
retail goods to compensate.

He would pay more without the CC.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 09:09:11 -0400, George wrote:

On 10/1/2011 1:34 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 13:23:44 -0400, wrote:

On 10/1/2011 1:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 07:41:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sep 30, 11:18 am, Red wrote:
BoA heads up a cast of characters.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bank-o...-5-apf-1381425...

Picture Summary:http://oi54.tinypic.com/vx1amv.jpg

Looks like we need to go ahead and get our concealed carry permits so
we can carry more cash.

No need to carry cash. ;-)

Yes, it does make a lot more sense to say buy a donut using a credit or
debit card to help the banks out.

Wwwwwooooooosssssh!!

You are easily confused aren't you?

No, but they must call you "Shorty". It *still* hasn't sunk in.

We walked into a bank earlier this week to get a cashiers check for
$10K for a car purchase. The account we were removing the money from
was NOT small.

I'm sure the dealer was happy. ;-)

Or it was a win-win. You can get better prices if you make cash part of
the negotiation because the dealer knows the tribute they will need to
pay to the bank.

Cash handling isn't free either.

Of course not but you are just parroting the FUD used by banks. If you
ever get a chance to see actual merchant costs you would be quite
surprised. Even common sense and simple observation will give you a good
idea.

FUD? No, I'm tall enough to see a tree in the forest. ...and ,no, I wouldn't
be surprised, Shorty. You shouldn't speak of which you haven't a clue. IOW,
be mute.

Not everyone loves banks.

Not everyone loves lawyers or dentists either.

Sure, but I am confident lawyyers and dentists weren't part of the team
that tanked the economy.

I didn't think they made people that short. ...and stupid.

They wanted $10 to process a cashier's check.

We tied up two of their people for about 15-20 minutes dragging cash
out of the vault, counting it out to one-another and then to us. I
suspect that cost more than processing the check. I would have been
uncomfortable carrying that much cash but we were depositing it in
another bank 20 minutes away.

It takes that long to count 100 Franklins?

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 09:16:40 -0400, George wrote:

On 10/1/2011 7:18 PM, SMS wrote:
On 10/1/2011 7:41 AM, RonB wrote:
On Sep 30, 11:18 am, Red wrote:
BoA heads up a cast of characters.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bank-o...-5-apf-1381425...

Picture Summary:http://oi54.tinypic.com/vx1amv.jpg

Looks like we need to go ahead and get our concealed carry permits so
we can carry more cash.

We walked into a bank earlier this week to get a cashiers check for
$10K for a car purchase. The account we were removing the money from
was NOT small.

They wanted $10 to process a cashier's check.

We tied up two of their people for about 15-20 minutes dragging cash
out of the vault, counting it out to one-another and then to us. I
suspect that cost more than processing the check. I would have been
uncomfortable carrying that much cash but we were depositing it in
another bank 20 minutes away.

If it was a purchase from a dealer it's surprising that the dealer would
not have the ability to do Check 21 processing on personal checks.

If a business wants a bare negotiable or cash why would they want to
deal with personal checks?

Because they don't want to lose a sale?

On 10/2/2011 11:53 AM, George wrote:
On 10/2/2011 12:58 AM, SMS wrote:
On 10/1/2011 5:37 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

A *long* time ago, CUs weren't allowed to clear checks through the
system.
They got around it by affiliating with a bank and issuing "drafts". Same
thing, usually. That changed at least 20 years ago, though. CUs also
can't
do commercial accounts, so there are some differences but for most,
CUs are
the way to go.

I have a commercial account at a credit union. In fact they told me they
could no longer accept checks made out to my business into my personal
CU account anymore (they had been able to do that previously) and said
that it could only be done in a commercial account. All they needed was
my fictitious name notice to open the commercial account.

Since you have a business you may want to ask your accountant why they
didn't flag that years ago. Commingling of personal and business assets
is not considered good form.

'Ask your accountant' is like 'ask your lawyer'. Not everyone,
especially small or one-man DBAs, can afford to keep that level of
expertise on retainer. Why do you think small-business accounting SW
sells so well?

--
aem sends...

In article ,
" wrote:



Too vigilant? I don't think so, at all. They're pretty damned lax, as far as
I'm concerned. What's your beef?

" stopped to get gas and my card won't work."
"It says we put a fraud stop on it. I can unfreeze it if you would
like."
(Some various id confirming hooha).
"So why did you freeze my card?"
"You are in Florida."
"What else.?"
"Nothing else. You live in Indiana and you were using
your card more than the algorithm thought you should in FL."
"Anything on there besides hotels, gas, and eating establishments."
"No, but the algorithm noted you were in FL using a lot and that is not
usual."
"So the algorithm picked up I was in FL this year, but neglected to
note the other 10 years I have used the card in FL right after
Christmas?"
"Er, yeah."
"And did it take into account the gas, hotels and other stuff I bought
over 3 days in KY, TN, and GA on the way down?"
"Err, no."

Happened the next year. Same place, same time. I have started to call
them whenever I am going to be out of IN for any reason.

I found it especially interesting two years hence when I was in FL,
told them I was going to be in FL, but someone in CA got almost $3000 in
charges before I caught them.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

On Oct 2, 11:42*am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
ersex was a safe alternative,

until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

Was carpal tunnel caused by the keyboard or......

.......something else? O

On 10/2/2011 12:28 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 09:09:11 -0400, wrote:

On 10/1/2011 1:34 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 13:23:44 -0400, wrote:

On 10/1/2011 1:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 07:41:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sep 30, 11:18 am, Red wrote:
BoA heads up a cast of characters.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bank-o...-5-apf-1381425...

Picture Summary:http://oi54.tinypic.com/vx1amv.jpg

Looks like we need to go ahead and get our concealed carry permits so
we can carry more cash.

No need to carry cash. ;-)

Yes, it does make a lot more sense to say buy a donut using a credit or
debit card to help the banks out.

Wwwwwooooooosssssh!!

You are easily confused aren't you?

No, but they must call you "Shorty". It *still* hasn't sunk in.

So why not demonstrate your imagined intellectual superiority and simply
explain your position instead of issuing goofy comments and ad hominem
attacks?



We walked into a bank earlier this week to get a cashiers check for
$10K for a car purchase. The account we were removing the money from
was NOT small.

I'm sure the dealer was happy. ;-)

Or it was a win-win. You can get better prices if you make cash part of
the negotiation because the dealer knows the tribute they will need to
pay to the bank.

Cash handling isn't free either.

Of course not but you are just parroting the FUD used by banks. If you
ever get a chance to see actual merchant costs you would be quite
surprised. Even common sense and simple observation will give you a good
idea.

FUD? No, I'm tall enough to see a tree in the forest. ...and ,no, I wouldn't
be surprised, Shorty. You shouldn't speak of which you haven't a clue. IOW,
be mute.

Not everyone loves banks.

Not everyone loves lawyers or dentists either.

Sure, but I am confident lawyyers and dentists weren't part of the team
that tanked the economy.

I didn't think they made people that short. ...and stupid.

Ad hominem attacks just make the issuer look clueless. Was that your
intention?



They wanted $10 to process a cashier's check.

We tied up two of their people for about 15-20 minutes dragging cash
out of the vault, counting it out to one-another and then to us. I
suspect that cost more than processing the check. I would have been
uncomfortable carrying that much cash but we were depositing it in
another bank 20 minutes away.

It takes that long to count 100 Franklins?

On 10/2/2011 12:24 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 10:48:29 -0400, Home wrote:

h wrote:

Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner. I get back at least $750 a year
from my BoA credit card and I never pay them one thin dime.

Where do you think they're getting this money to pay you?

From suckers, like you.

They're getting it from retailers who are paying increasing amounts for
CC processing charges and in turn they are raising the price you pay for
retail goods to compensate.

He would pay more without the CC.

And why would that be considering businesses that are on top of their
game regarding costs know a cash transaction costs less than a CC
transaction?

Just give an actual explanation not a goofy comment if you would.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 12:42:44 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:



Too vigilant? I don't think so, at all. They're pretty damned lax, as far as
I'm concerned. What's your beef?

" stopped to get gas and my card won't work."

I've done that. Second card. Once it did **** me off because we were moving,
so had both vehicles (both being filled simultaneously rang the chime). This
sort of thing can usually be avoided by calling them first, warning them that
there may be "unusual" charges.

"It says we put a fraud stop on it. I can unfreeze it if you would
like."
(Some various id confirming hooha).

Perfectly acceptable.

"So why did you freeze my card?"
"You are in Florida."
"What else.?"
"Nothing else. You live in Indiana and you were using
your card more than the algorithm thought you should in FL."

Again, this can be avoided. It would be nice if they told people what the
alarms were, or even just told them that if there was going to be
"strangeness" in their habits, to give a call.

BTW, I was in FL two weeks ago. No problems. ...wasn't Miami, though.

"Anything on there besides hotels, gas, and eating establishments."
"No, but the algorithm noted you were in FL using a lot and that is not
usual."
"So the algorithm picked up I was in FL this year, but neglected to
note the other 10 years I have used the card in FL right after
Christmas?"
"Er, yeah."
"And did it take into account the gas, hotels and other stuff I bought
over 3 days in KY, TN, and GA on the way down?"
"Err, no."

Happened the next year. Same place, same time. I have started to call
them whenever I am going to be out of IN for any reason.

You're learning. ;-)

I found it especially interesting two years hence when I was in FL,
told them I was going to be in FL, but someone in CA got almost $3000 in
charges before I caught them.

Um, CA FL ;-)

They do have a *lot* of problems in S. FL.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 12:10:14 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

On 10/2/2011 10:48 AM, Home Guy wrote:
h wrote:

Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner. I get back at least $750 a year
from my BoA credit card and I never pay them one thin dime.

Where do you think they're getting this money to pay you?

They're getting it from retailers who are paying increasing amounts for
CC processing charges and in turn they are raising the price you pay for
retail goods to compensate.

I'd imagine they get a good chunk of their cashflow from people dumb or
desperate enough to carry a balance on their cards. Some CC rates, if
the balance is carried too long, make a payday loan place or loan shark,
look cheap.

Now let's not exaggerate, here. Though the PLP down in town says it all on
their sign "First Loan Free".

On 10/2/2011 12:23 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 10:15:01 -0400, Kurt wrote:

In ,
wrote:


over $5 and put every bill I pay online on the card and pay it off every
month. Couldn't be easier and I never have to worry about fees or
over-drawing my checking account. Plus, if your debit card is stolen and
your account drained, the bank has no obligation to return your money. If
someone steals your credit card (or even just the info) you're not
responsible for the charges.

And because of this, the CC issuer's fraud units seem to be more
vigilant (sometimes TOO vigilant probably) in keeping an eye on the
accounts and freezing them.

Too vigilant? I don't think so, at all. They're pretty damned lax, as far as
I'm concerned. What's your beef?

One case which just happened to me. We went to NYC with some friends. I
made exactly two small metrocard purchases because all of the machines
at that station were showing *no cash accepted*. We rode the train to
our destination and when we went up to the street I received a voicemail
from the fraud department. I called the number and they had turned the
card off because of the two transactions in a row because I didn't
answer the call to confirm it was me.

On 10/2/2011 12:28 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 09:16:40 -0400,
wrote:

On 10/1/2011 7:18 PM, SMS wrote:

If it was a purchase from a dealer it's surprising that the dealer would
not have the ability to do Check 21 processing on personal checks.

If a business wants a bare negotiable or cash why would they want to
deal with personal checks?

The new check scanners process the checks immediately. A lot of
merchants actually hand the check right back to you on the spot with
"void" printed across the face.

Agree, but there could still be an NSF issue. I didn't think that could
happen but it can.

The machine scans the MICR line, the merchant enters the amount
(usually right from the register) and the account is debited right
then.
You could just hand them a blank check and it would be the same.

On 10/2/2011 12:28 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 09:16:40 -0400, wrote:

On 10/1/2011 7:18 PM, SMS wrote:
On 10/1/2011 7:41 AM, RonB wrote:
On Sep 30, 11:18 am, Red wrote:
BoA heads up a cast of characters.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bank-o...-5-apf-1381425...

Picture Summary:http://oi54.tinypic.com/vx1amv.jpg

Looks like we need to go ahead and get our concealed carry permits so
we can carry more cash.

We walked into a bank earlier this week to get a cashiers check for
$10K for a car purchase. The account we were removing the money from
was NOT small.

They wanted $10 to process a cashier's check.

We tied up two of their people for about 15-20 minutes dragging cash
out of the vault, counting it out to one-another and then to us. I
suspect that cost more than processing the check. I would have been
uncomfortable carrying that much cash but we were depositing it in
another bank 20 minutes away.

If it was a purchase from a dealer it's surprising that the dealer would
not have the ability to do Check 21 processing on personal checks.

If a business wants a bare negotiable or cash why would they want to
deal with personal checks?

Because they don't want to lose a sale?

Making a sale isn't the issue it is making money while making a sale. So
a merchant may say "I may loose some sales but I won't be paying my
attorney to go to the magistrate to try to collect on bad checks"

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 12:59:55 -0400, George wrote:

On 10/2/2011 12:24 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 10:48:29 -0400, Home wrote:

h wrote:

Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner. I get back at least $750 a year
from my BoA credit card and I never pay them one thin dime.

Where do you think they're getting this money to pay you?

From suckers, like you.

They're getting it from retailers who are paying increasing amounts for
CC processing charges and in turn they are raising the price you pay for
retail goods to compensate.

He would pay more without the CC.

And why would that be considering businesses that are on top of their
game regarding costs know a cash transaction costs less than a CC
transaction?

Dumbass, "he" has no control over how other people pay.

Just give an actual explanation not a goofy comment if you would.

A goofy leftist deserves nothing else but.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 12:58:03 -0400, George wrote:

On 10/2/2011 12:28 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 09:09:11 -0400, wrote:

On 10/1/2011 1:34 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 13:23:44 -0400, wrote:

On 10/1/2011 1:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 07:41:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sep 30, 11:18 am, Red wrote:
BoA heads up a cast of characters.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bank-o...-5-apf-1381425...

Picture Summary:http://oi54.tinypic.com/vx1amv.jpg

Looks like we need to go ahead and get our concealed carry permits so
we can carry more cash.

No need to carry cash. ;-)

Yes, it does make a lot more sense to say buy a donut using a credit or
debit card to help the banks out.

Wwwwwooooooosssssh!!

You are easily confused aren't you?

No, but they must call you "Shorty". It *still* hasn't sunk in.

So why not demonstrate your imagined intellectual superiority and simply
explain your position instead of issuing goofy comments and ad hominem
attacks?

Good grief! READ!

There is no need to carry cash to get a concealed carry permit. I have one
(though I sometimes carry a little cash - there's $1000 in my wallet now).

We walked into a bank earlier this week to get a cashiers check for
$10K for a car purchase. The account we were removing the money from
was NOT small.

I'm sure the dealer was happy. ;-)

Or it was a win-win. You can get better prices if you make cash part of
the negotiation because the dealer knows the tribute they will need to
pay to the bank.

Cash handling isn't free either.

Of course not but you are just parroting the FUD used by banks. If you
ever get a chance to see actual merchant costs you would be quite
surprised. Even common sense and simple observation will give you a good
idea.

FUD? No, I'm tall enough to see a tree in the forest. ...and ,no, I wouldn't
be surprised, Shorty. You shouldn't speak of which you haven't a clue. IOW,
be mute.

Not everyone loves banks.

Not everyone loves lawyers or dentists either.

Sure, but I am confident lawyyers and dentists weren't part of the team
that tanked the economy.

I didn't think they made people that short. ...and stupid.

Ad hominem attacks just make the issuer look clueless. Was that your
intention?

Just the facts, Shorty.

On 10/2/2011 12:32 PM, aemeijers wrote:
On 10/2/2011 11:53 AM, George wrote:
On 10/2/2011 12:58 AM, SMS wrote:
On 10/1/2011 5:37 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

A *long* time ago, CUs weren't allowed to clear checks through the
system.
They got around it by affiliating with a bank and issuing "drafts".
Same
thing, usually. That changed at least 20 years ago, though. CUs also
can't
do commercial accounts, so there are some differences but for most,
CUs are
the way to go.

I have a commercial account at a credit union. In fact they told me they
could no longer accept checks made out to my business into my personal
CU account anymore (they had been able to do that previously) and said
that it could only be done in a commercial account. All they needed was
my fictitious name notice to open the commercial account.

Since you have a business you may want to ask your accountant why they
didn't flag that years ago. Commingling of personal and business assets
is not considered good form.

'Ask your accountant' is like 'ask your lawyer'. Not everyone,
especially small or one-man DBAs, can afford to keep that level of
expertise on retainer. Why do you think small-business accounting SW
sells so well?


OK, then ask Google. I just did and the first 8 links that came up were
all relevant.

Commingling business and personal assets is not a good idea for a lot of
reasons among them it will give an auditor a good reason to look really
well once they see you are doing that.

I am guessing the credit union involved was just cluelessly assisting a
depositor(s) in a bad practice and someone realized it.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 10:48:29 -0400, Home wrote:

h wrote:

Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner. I get back at least $750 a year
from my BoA credit card and I never pay them one thin dime.

Where do you think they're getting this money to pay you?

From suckers, like you.

They're getting it from retailers who are paying increasing amounts for
CC processing charges and in turn they are raising the price you pay for
retail goods to compensate.

He would pay more without the CC.

In the US, when a merchant signs up to take credit cards, he signs a
contract that he will not give a discount for cash sales. A few may,
but they are in breach of their contract.

In the EU, such contractual provisions are illegal, and you can often
get a good discount for paying cash (I think the fee the merchant pays
on a credit card purchase can approach 10%). I don't know how it works
for debit cards, as I've never seen the need to use one.

I think congress limited the swap fees just so they could say they are
cracking down on banks (banks are never popular, even though we all need
them), but their remedy, like many of their remedies, simply won't work
because the banks will find another way to get their income. If
congress really wanted to help consumers, they would copy the EU
provision making a contract clause banning discounts for cash illegal.

What we really need is a hung congress. Or should I say hanged.

In article ,
" wrote:



Again, this can be avoided. It would be nice if they told people what the
alarms were, or even just told them that if there was going to be
"strangeness" in their habits, to give a call.

That was pretty much my idea. Also, they never texted nor e-mail, nor
called. IT was the double secret probation side of it that ticked me off
the most.

BTW, I was in FL two weeks ago. No problems. ...wasn't Miami, though.
This in Key Largo and/or Marathon.


Happened the next year. Same place, same time. I have started to call
them whenever I am going to be out of IN for any reason.

You're learning. ;-)
It would have been nice if the person the first time hadn't assured
me that the algorithm would reflect my personal use patterns.


I found it especially interesting two years hence when I was in FL,
told them I was going to be in FL, but someone in CA got almost $3000 in
charges before I caught them.

Um, CA FL ;-)

They do have a *lot* of problems in S. FL.

It sorta ****ed me off that their vaunted algorithm caught me twice,
but did not pick up on the other guy.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

Tony Miklos wrote the following:
On 9/30/2011 12:18 PM, Red Green wrote:
BoA heads up a cast of characters.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bank-o...25092.html?x=0



Picture Summary: http://oi54.tinypic.com/vx1amv.jpg


I don't understand why anyone would stay with a debit card unless their
credit rating is so bad they can't get a credit card.


It's convenient. I make a purchase with my bank debit card at most
stores and by the time I get back home and check my bank account online,
the purchase is recorded and the $$ deducted from my account.
I don't have to go to the credit card site and make a payment from my
checking account to the credit card account.
I have 4 credit cards. I don't routinely carry them.


I use credit cards (3) which one depends on where and what I'm buying. I
pay no monthly fees, no interest, and actually I get between 1 and 5%
back. Why pay them when they offer to pay me?


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On 10/2/2011 10:31 AM, Notat Home wrote:

In the US, when a merchant signs up to take credit cards, he signs a
contract that he will not give a discount for cash sales. A few may, but
they are in breach of their contract.

Wrong. They sign a contract that they will not have a surcharge for
credit card sales. It's actually different. The posted price is what a
credit card user pays. A cash customer can get a discount--sometimes.

"willshak" wrote
It's convenient. I make a purchase with my bank debit card at most
stores and by the time I get back home and check my bank account online,
the purchase is recorded and the $$ deducted from my account.
I don't have to go to the credit card site and make a payment from my
checking account to the credit card account.
I have 4 credit cards. I don't routinely carry them.

Not to mention, I can get cash back when I want it at the grocery store.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in
:


"willshak" wrote
It's convenient. I make a purchase with my bank debit card at most
stores and by the time I get back home and check my bank account
online, the purchase is recorded and the $$ deducted from my account.
I don't have to go to the credit card site and make a payment from my
checking account to the credit card account.
I have 4 credit cards. I don't routinely carry them.

Not to mention, I can get cash back when I want it at the grocery
store.

I use credit cards. Balance gets deducted when due from my checking
account. Discover gives cash back ($50 max, I believe, but it's NOT a cash
advance)

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 10/2/2011 1:12 PM, Han wrote:

I use credit cards. Balance gets deducted when due from my checking
account. Discover gives cash back ($50 max, I believe, but it's NOT a cash
advance)

I remember when Costco took Discover and it was really nice to be able
to get cash back over the amount of purchase and not have it be a cash
advance. Pretty sure you got the cash back percentage on that as well. I
had a Discover Private Issue card which paid 2%.

Han wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in
:

Dick Durbin offered and amendment to the Dodd-Franks financial reform
act which limited the interchage fee banks can charge on debit card
transactions to 22-25 cents per swipe. Prior to that, the average fee
to the merchant was 44 cents per swipe.

As a result of this Durbin provision, banks will experience an
estimated loss of $8 billion annually. I'm guessing BoA will take
about $2 billion of that hit.

Well, actually $8 (or $2) billion LESS profit, not a loss in the
bottom line, IMNSHO!


BoA recently reported a profit decline of 37%. Their earnings for the 1st
quarter were $2 billion (down fro $3.2 billion in the same quarter last
year). A reduction of $2 billion in fees would wipe out the profit for an
entire quarter. No business can take that kind of hit.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

So why not demonstrate your imagined intellectual superiority and
simply explain your position instead of issuing goofy comments and
ad hominem attacks?

Good grief! READ!

There is no need to carry cash to get a concealed carry permit. I
have one (though I sometimes carry a little cash - there's $1000 in
my wallet now).


Regrettably, carrying large amounts of cash is one of the (two or three)
justifications required to get a concealed weapons permit in some states -
New Jersey comes to mind.

On the other hand, 41 states require no reason at all. If you can stand up,
hear thunder, and see lightning you can get the license.

On 10/2/2011 2:26 PM, HeyBub wrote:

BoA recently reported a profit decline of 37%. Their earnings for the 1st
quarter were $2 billion (down fro $3.2 billion in the same quarter last
year). A reduction of $2 billion in fees would wipe out the profit for an
entire quarter. No business can take that kind of hit.

It's a mistake for BOA to believe that the $5 per month fee will result
in the restoration of that $2 billion in fees. On the surface it makes
sense to stop hiding fees in merchant transaction costs. In reality most
consumers will either switch to cash, credit cards, or checks, or move
to a financial institution that does not charge a monthly fee. It's easy
enough to withdraw cash from an ATM and pay in cash, debit cards simply
eliminated that extra step. Most people that use debit cards probably
have credit cards too, so they'll just switch to them.

Credit cards used to have annual fees but now only a handful of cards,
generally the ones with extremely good rewards programs, still charge a
fee. Once one credit card issuer abandoned annual fees everyone had to
follow suit.

Annual fees to do business with a company are very hard to justify.
Costco is successful with this because of the overwhelming financial
benefits of shopping at Costco versus at a non-membership store--the $50
annual fee is lost in the noise of the total annual savings.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 13:52:16 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:



Again, this can be avoided. It would be nice if they told people what the
alarms were, or even just told them that if there was going to be
"strangeness" in their habits, to give a call.

That was pretty much my idea. Also, they never texted nor e-mail, nor
called. IT was the double secret probation side of it that ticked me off
the most.

BTW, I was in FL two weeks ago. No problems. ...wasn't Miami, though.
This in Key Largo and/or Marathon.

I was in another corner (Destin).

Happened the next year. Same place, same time. I have started to call
them whenever I am going to be out of IN for any reason.

You're learning. ;-)
It would have been nice if the person the first time hadn't assured
me that the algorithm would reflect my personal use patterns.

You actually believe phone droids? Their job is to make you (temporarily)
happy so they can move on to the next troublemaker.

I found it especially interesting two years hence when I was in FL,
told them I was going to be in FL, but someone in CA got almost $3000 in
charges before I caught them.

Um, CA FL ;-)

They do have a *lot* of problems in S. FL.

It sorta ****ed me off that their vaunted algorithm caught me twice,
but did not pick up on the other guy.


Well, their algorithm did its job. It shut down South Florida. ;-)

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 13:31:59 -0400, Notat Home wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 10:48:29 -0400, Home wrote:

h wrote:

Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner. I get back at least $750 a year
from my BoA credit card and I never pay them one thin dime.

Where do you think they're getting this money to pay you?

From suckers, like you.

They're getting it from retailers who are paying increasing amounts for
CC processing charges and in turn they are raising the price you pay for
retail goods to compensate.

He would pay more without the CC.

In the US, when a merchant signs up to take credit cards, he signs a
contract that he will not give a discount for cash sales. A few may,
but they are in breach of their contract.

No, he says that he will not charge more for CC sales. In any case, it's his
choice. That's sorta how contracts work.

In the EU, such contractual provisions are illegal, and you can often
get a good discount for paying cash (I think the fee the merchant pays
on a credit card purchase can approach 10%). I don't know how it works
for debit cards, as I've never seen the need to use one.

The EU is anti-freedom. shrug

I think congress limited the swap fees just so they could say they are
cracking down on banks (banks are never popular, even though we all need
them), but their remedy, like many of their remedies, simply won't work
because the banks will find another way to get their income. If
congress really wanted to help consumers, they would copy the EU
provision making a contract clause banning discounts for cash illegal.

"Cracking down on banks"? You're funny.

What we really need is a hung congress. Or should I say hanged.

I was starting to wonder about you... ;-)

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 13:14:13 -0400, George wrote:

On 10/2/2011 12:28 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 09:16:40 -0400, wrote:

On 10/1/2011 7:18 PM, SMS wrote:
On 10/1/2011 7:41 AM, RonB wrote:
On Sep 30, 11:18 am, Red wrote:
BoA heads up a cast of characters.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bank-o...-5-apf-1381425...

Picture Summary:http://oi54.tinypic.com/vx1amv.jpg

Looks like we need to go ahead and get our concealed carry permits so
we can carry more cash.

We walked into a bank earlier this week to get a cashiers check for
$10K for a car purchase. The account we were removing the money from
was NOT small.

They wanted $10 to process a cashier's check.

We tied up two of their people for about 15-20 minutes dragging cash
out of the vault, counting it out to one-another and then to us. I
suspect that cost more than processing the check. I would have been
uncomfortable carrying that much cash but we were depositing it in
another bank 20 minutes away.

If it was a purchase from a dealer it's surprising that the dealer would
not have the ability to do Check 21 processing on personal checks.

If a business wants a bare negotiable or cash why would they want to
deal with personal checks?

Because they don't want to lose a sale?

Making a sale isn't the issue it is making money while making a sale. So
a merchant may say "I may loose some sales but I won't be paying my
attorney to go to the magistrate to try to collect on bad checks"

Read the thread again. The question was why a business who wants cash would
want to deal with personal checks.

OTOH, they may want to pass on the sale because of the risk. Choice is a
great thing, no?

wrote
In the EU, such contractual provisions are illegal, and you can often
get a good discount for paying cash (I think the fee the merchant pays
on a credit card purchase can approach 10%). I don't know how it works
for debit cards, as I've never seen the need to use one.

The EU is anti-freedom. shrug

While soccer is a big sport in Italy, tax evasion is even bigger. I've
gotten HUGE discounts for cash. The VAT is something like 20% now. I have
no idea what the fees are, but other factors are very important for cash.
The cost of the Euro still sucks, but it is down right now from where it was
so I figure I'm saving 10% this week anyway.

On 10/2/2011 1:22 PM, George wrote:
On 10/2/2011 12:32 PM, aemeijers wrote:
On 10/2/2011 11:53 AM, George wrote:
On 10/2/2011 12:58 AM, SMS wrote:
On 10/1/2011 5:37 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

A *long* time ago, CUs weren't allowed to clear checks through the
system.
They got around it by affiliating with a bank and issuing "drafts".
Same
thing, usually. That changed at least 20 years ago, though. CUs also
can't
do commercial accounts, so there are some differences but for most,
CUs are
the way to go.

I have a commercial account at a credit union. In fact they told me
they
could no longer accept checks made out to my business into my personal
CU account anymore (they had been able to do that previously) and said
that it could only be done in a commercial account. All they needed was
my fictitious name notice to open the commercial account.

Since you have a business you may want to ask your accountant why they
didn't flag that years ago. Commingling of personal and business assets
is not considered good form.

'Ask your accountant' is like 'ask your lawyer'. Not everyone,
especially small or one-man DBAs, can afford to keep that level of
expertise on retainer. Why do you think small-business accounting SW
sells so well?


OK, then ask Google. I just did and the first 8 links that came up were
all relevant.

Commingling business and personal assets is not a good idea for a lot of
reasons among them it will give an auditor a good reason to look really
well once they see you are doing that.

I am guessing the credit union involved was just cluelessly assisting a
depositor(s) in a bad practice and someone realized it.

Oh, I wasn't saying you were wrong, or anything. I'm no accountant or
lawyer, and even I know why business and/or escrow accounts are good CYA
for all the players in a deal. But I grew up in a small construction
company, and did take a few business law courses in college.

--
aem sends...

On 10/2/2011 4:01 PM, aemeijers wrote:
On 10/2/2011 1:22 PM, George wrote:
On 10/2/2011 12:32 PM, aemeijers wrote:
On 10/2/2011 11:53 AM, George wrote:
On 10/2/2011 12:58 AM, SMS wrote:
On 10/1/2011 5:37 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

A *long* time ago, CUs weren't allowed to clear checks through the
system.
They got around it by affiliating with a bank and issuing "drafts".
Same
thing, usually. That changed at least 20 years ago, though. CUs also
can't
do commercial accounts, so there are some differences but for most,
CUs are
the way to go.

I have a commercial account at a credit union. In fact they told me
they
could no longer accept checks made out to my business into my personal
CU account anymore (they had been able to do that previously) and said
that it could only be done in a commercial account. All they needed
was
my fictitious name notice to open the commercial account.

Since you have a business you may want to ask your accountant why they
didn't flag that years ago. Commingling of personal and business assets
is not considered good form.

'Ask your accountant' is like 'ask your lawyer'. Not everyone,
especially small or one-man DBAs, can afford to keep that level of
expertise on retainer. Why do you think small-business accounting SW
sells so well?


OK, then ask Google. I just did and the first 8 links that came up were
all relevant.

Commingling business and personal assets is not a good idea for a lot of
reasons among them it will give an auditor a good reason to look really
well once they see you are doing that.

I am guessing the credit union involved was just cluelessly assisting a
depositor(s) in a bad practice and someone realized it.

Oh, I wasn't saying you were wrong, or anything. I'm no accountant or
lawyer, and even I know why business and/or escrow accounts are good CYA
for all the players in a deal. But I grew up in a small construction
company, and did take a few business law courses in college.

Of course he was wrong. First of all, in this case I was not co-mingling
business and personal assets, it was an account solely usef for
business. But many people that are consultants have checks made out to
their business name and need to be able to deposit them.

On 10/1/2011 12:10 PM, Notat Home wrote:
Ron wrote:
On Sep 30, 2:50 pm, "Percival P. wrote:
On 09/30/11 02:22 pm, Ron wrote:









...

BoA heads up a cast of characters.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bank-o...-5-apf-1381425

...

Picture Summary:http://oi54.tinypic.com/vx1amv.jpg

If my bank tries it, you can count me amongst the following:

This summer, an Associated Press-GfK poll found that two-thirds of
consum
ers
use debit cards more frequently than credit cards. But when asked
how
the
y
would react if they were charged a $3 monthly debit card fee, 61
percent said they'd find another way to pay.

With a $5 fee, 66 percent said they would change their payment
method.

Yeah, let the assholes have to deal with a ****load of paper checks
again. What a crock!

...and you think per check fees will not become more rampant?!

Some banks/CU have a per check fee over a certain amount of checks per
month. Nothing prevents the "certain amount of checks" to be zero.

I can't even remember the last time I had check fees. I'm now with
Wells Fargo, formally Wachovia, formally First Union.

Our church is urging members to make contributions by EFT because
there's a per-check charge above 100 a month.

And the alternative some bank customers are talking about is credit
unions.

Perce

Fortunately, I'm a USAA member, so if Wells Fargo tries to pull any of
that crap, I'll just take out all of my money and do my banking with
them.

USAA doesn't play those stupid games.

https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/bank_main

Actually, USAA notified customers about a month ago that they were
ending the reward they pay for use of a debit card, because the idiots
in Washington have capped the swipe fees they charged merchants for use
of a debit card. Since the dunces cap applies to all debit cards, it is
hard to see how any bank or credit union will be able to avoid some sort
of charge, or reduction in service, to card users, they will just vary
in their approach.

The inescapable conclusion is that our government has chosen to reduce
costs for merchants, and to increase costs for card users. Perhaps they
dream that merchants will reduce their prices because of their reduced
swipe fee charges, but I don't know anyone who seriously believes that.

I do agree that USAA is an excellent bank, but banks are in the business
of making money, not losing it. Credit unions may not make a profit, but
they certainly cannot eat a loss.
Shrug. As soon as my credit union starts charging for using their ATM
card at POS terminals, I'll go back to using cash for everything, or use
the free CC instead. If they start charging to use their own ATMs, I
will have nasty words for them. I may use other-bank ATMs once or twice
a year, when traveling, and I never use those baby ATMs in gas stations
and stop-n-robs, with their usurious fees. At least my CU hasn't started
the 'extra fee to talk to a human' BS like some of the mega-banks have.

Carrying cash doesn't bother me- I don't look worth robbing. Wearing
rags and driving junkers has its virtues. And since I avoid dense urban
areas like the plague they are, I think the odds are in my favor.
-- aem sends...

First, I'm 62 years old.

Second, anyone who has to use a debit card to pay for a Big Mac meal does
not deserve to go out in public without adult supervision. I see stupid
people all the time paying for very small purchases, gleefully ignorant of
the charges involved.

Carry cash. Learn how to use it. Learn that when it's gone, it's time to
stop spending. Learn when it gets low, it's time to watch what you buy. On
big ticket items, write a check, or get a cashier's check, or get a high
limit credit card and pay it off so you don't pay any interest.

And mostly, learn to never pay someone else to use your own money.

This is one of the things that's wrong with this country, and it now has
filtered down from the government to Joe Average who just keeps spending
when the money's gone. Hey, what do you mean I'm overdrawn, I still have
checks left. Just put it on my credit card..................

Steve

On 10/02/11 11:48 pm, Steve B wrote:

Second, anyone who has to use a debit card to pay for a Big Mac meal does
not deserve to go out in public without adult supervision. I see stupid
people all the time paying for very small purchases, gleefully ignorant of
the charges involved.

Carry cash. Learn how to use it. Learn that when it's gone, it's time to
stop spending. Learn when it gets low, it's time to watch what you buy. On
big ticket items, write a check, or get a cashier's check, or get a high
limit credit card and pay it off so you don't pay any interest.

And mostly, learn to never pay someone else to use your own money.

This is one of the things that's wrong with this country, and it now has
filtered down from the government to Joe Average who just keeps spending
when the money's gone. Hey, what do you mean I'm overdrawn, I still have
checks left. Just put it on my credit card..................

But with a *debit* card you *can't* keep spending when the money's gone.

Perce