On May 15, 11:50�pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
aemeijers wrote in news:Q-
:





harry wrote:
(snip)
The solution to the problem lies not in armed force. It's in minding
your own business. Like leaving these Jews to stew in their own
juice.
Ah, now we get to your anti-Semitic core. You *are* a piece of ****.

Cease sending armis to Israel and support the Palestiians and all your
problems will be solved. And before you start, Israel is not a
democracy.
...in spades.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I know fascisism when I see it. rounding up people and putting them in
concentration camps. Stealing their land and property. Dropping
(American supplied) cluster bombs on civilians. Raining down (American
supplied) phosphorus on civilians. Shooting unarmed civilians. They
are the scum of the earth and they are your "friends".
All exact parallels to Nazi Germany.

A clue for you Harry- The Israelis and the Palestinians are BOTH wrong,
and they BOTH lie a lot. Neither side has a convincing title to the
land- which side to believe depends mainly on which year's borders you
start your argument from. Going back to Balfour declaration and blaming
the Brits for the fubar is as good an explanation as any. As I noted
previously, the locals did not draw the borders there a hundred years
ago, the West did.

Short of brain-wiping all of them to forget their respective tragic
histories, and finding a way to keep religion out of their politics,
there will never be peace in the middle east. If these were kids in a
sandbox, the nearest adult would kick them ALL out, and tell them if
they can't share, none of them get it. The west gave Israel (back) to
the Jews out of guilt, even though it really wasn't theirs to give. But
since then, by having their act together compared to their Keystone Cop
neighbors, the Israelis have earned that land as much as any other
country that was created out of land taken from others, has. The Brits
did a good deal of takeovers back in the day, too, remember. No new
country ever got created without somebody else getting the short end of
the stick. It isn't fair, but it is reality. Funny how none of the
self-exiled Palestinians that used to live in what is now Israel were
taken in by their Arab brethren. One would almost think they didn't want
them either. Understandable that after 3-4 generations in the camps,
their world-view is a little biased.

Apologies to the group for continuing this wildly off-topic endless
thread branch, and indulging Harry the troll. I'm done.

Israel's land was NOT "taken from others". �
It was taken from them,in Roman times. And since then,Jews have lived there
continuously,but persecuted. The Al-Aqsa mosque is built on Jewish Temple
remains. Jews have a long,tremendous history in that land,1000's of years..

what do you think about the new mosque going up at the World Trade Center
property?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Israelis took the land from the Caananites and Philistines if you
want to pursue that futile argument.
The Jews have been one of the most hated races in history. Let's
see.
There was the Assyrians, the Hittites, the Babylonians, the
Egyptiians, the Romans, the Russians, just about every country in
medieval Europe, the nazis and now the Arabs.
There's gotta be a reason for this. Can you think what it might be?

On May 16, 2:22�am, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

Exactly which bit is reinvented?
Oh and BTW, it was a British scientist invented the internet too.

Uh, no. According to some, Al Gore invented the internet.

Most others agree that the internet was a confluence of several separate
parts (packet switching, innovations and protocols developed at NPL, RAND,
and MIT). Many of these pieces were hooked together in ARPANET, the first
incarnation of what would later become the Internet.

There was no single "internet" that sprang full-blown from the head of Zeus,
but virtually ALL the major pieces were developed, invented, and implemented
in the U.S.

More Hollywood ******** I see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee

Almost nothing has been invented in the USA. Though indeed USAians
have made a commercial success of other people's ideas.

On May 16, 2:25�am, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

....but only if they can't hit back.
You need to be careful who you try to push around these days. At
sometime in the not too distant future a terrorist will nuke New
York. � They don't need any fancy missiles, just a shipping container.
Or maybe they'll sneak it in from Mexico or Canada.
We already have a muslim bomb (Pakistan). I wonder what would happen
if Pakistan went extreme?

You're right - it could happen.

Should that unfortunate event occur, we turn Mecca and Medina into a sea of
glass.

Too late by then. You would never know where it came from anyway.
There would be no con. trails in the sky and no early warning. This
where US foreign policies are so stupid. You are governed by retards.

On May 16, 2:26�am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:

Sometimes I think that the 1st and 2nd world countries brought it on
themselves, bringing modern arms, comms, �and transport to these 4th
world countries. Too bad we can't just all pull back and let them
try to get out of the 1800s on their own.

Putting the worms back in the can is impossible. �Given the recent
trends in nukes, keeping worms canned doesn't appear to be possible
either.

I'm not TOO worried. The Muslims hate each other more than they hate us.

And their apostate neighbor is easier to kill.

And Christians don't hate one another?

On May 16, 2:28�am, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

Putting the worms back in the can is impossible. ?Given the recent
trends in
nukes, keeping worms canned doesn't appear to be possible either. ?-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Exactly so. �You are going to have to learn to mind your own business
& cease interfering.

That would be nice, but not possible. For better or worse, we ARE the
world's policeman. No one else, just us.

The world doesn't need a policeman. And no, you're not alone we have
the Russians and Chinese doing their bit of interfering too.
There can be no policeman without law. This is just arbitary US
meddling for their own ends. The USA has not signed up to
international law for the good reason it acts outside the law.
I haven't seen the USA in Africa where there's lots of bad stuff goes
on.
I have to tell you, the Chinese are there in a big way. But they're
just after the mineral wealth. And the oil.

On May 16, 2:35�am, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 15, 1:52?pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 14, 9:39?pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

Hmm. ?I wonder if Jesus carried a Glock or indeed any other
weapon? Maybe this is why you are the Great Satan! ? :-)

Well, He DID say "trade your cloak for a sword"...

Where is that?

Uh, in the New Testament. Specifically:

Luke 22:36
"He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it,
and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his
cloak and buy one."

That instruction was for His followers only. Jesus himself had no
need for a weapon inasmuch as He could miracle an aggressor into a
toad should the need arise.

Now I had never noticed that bit. �The wording is strange.
I did find this:-http://www.ecapc.org/articles/
RensbeD_HS4_BuyASword.asp

Interesting reference you found. It's fascinating that the author of the
reference goes so far as to say: "... it is quite possible that [the words
of this verse] are Luke's own creation."

Imagine that! A professor of New Testament studies proposing that a quote
attributed to Jesus in one of the Gospels was manufactured for unstated and
unknown purposes...

What a hoot! Kinda puts paid to the "inerrancy" claim, doesn't it?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The bible was recompiled about 400AD, a big meeting in Antioch. It
was extensively edited and amended to suit the politics of the day.
Lots of stuff was taken out and the previous then "heretic" copies of
the bible rounded up and destroyed. It's thought they may exist in
the vatican library but they ain't saying. All that remains are the
"gnostic" gospels but they are fragmentary. More stuff turns up from
time to time. There was a big discovery in Egypt not long ago, only
recently translated.
Mary worship is a concession to the pagan "Earthmother" religions of
the day BTW.
There was Judas' gospel, Mary's gospel and even writings from Jesus
himself plus lots more, I don't recall it all.

Bit about it here. But this not a complete explanation. If you are
interested do some more research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_Gospels

So the bible is in fact pretty dodgy historically.

On May 16, 2:46�am, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 11:47:20 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Exactly which bit is reinvented?
Oh and BTW, it was a British scientist invented the internet too.

Oh, Harry, what shall I do with you. One Brit is credited with
developing the _World Wide Web_ (maybe others).

Not the Internet. Thank Our Military Might for helping you.

Contrary to popular belief, Gore did not invent ARPANET.

Contrary to popular US belief, Bill Gates did not invent the
computer! :-)

On May 16, 7:52�am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 15, 3:25 pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 06:04:22 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:
On May 15, 12:08?pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 15, 4:26 am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
aemeijers wrote in
news:ZsCdndcymbAbS3DWnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@gigan ews.com:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
My Russian cousins lost so many people in the war and they have
every right to be paranoid. Hitler should have paid attention to
history. The Russians are very pragmatic and will grind anyone
into the ground who is foolish enough to attack them on their
home turf, Ruskies don't play. Boris, have you hugged a terrorist
today? Da! Hugged him like bear till eyeballs pop out!
That's why we have so many bug-eyed Afghanis?
I don't believe anyone will ever be able to conquer Afghanistan.. It
will take an autochthonous government to control that country and
even then, it will be extremely difficult if not impossible.
TDD
It is stretching the term to call it a country. Most of that part of the
world is really ****ant little feifdoms, much like Europe after Rome
fell, and the borders on the map a western invention of convenience.
Loyalty is to clan/village/sect, not to nation-state.
so what happens when one of those sects decides to launch attacks on the
US,originating from bases in that "nation"?
(and the others resist our retribution...)
What would YOU do?(as one responsible for US security and defense..)
either some Afghan group takes authority and keeps some control over
them all,or it's a lawless land and anything goes,including "genocide" when
they attack the US from there,or go there to hide from us.
Our problem is that we listen to our whiners,weenies,and politically
correct and give them too much weight.
And lots of OUR people unnecessarily die from doing that.
Israel has pretty much the same problem.
We MUST establish that attacking the US is a REALLY bad idea.
We can be a good friend or a terrible enemy. We can't be both.
What was it that ancient Cave Politician said? "Walk softly but
carry a big stick."
TDD- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Sounds like "W".
My fault, it's a common misquote, it happens when one doesn't research.
What Theodore Roosevelt said was not "walk softly but carry a big stick"
as is often mis-quoted. He gave his famous quote during a speech in 1903:
There is a homely old adage which runs: "Speak softly and carry a big
stick; you will go far." If the American nation will speak softly, and
yet build and keep at a pitch of the highest training a thoroughly
efficient navy, the Monroe Doctrine will go far.
Darn, we need another Teddy Roosevelt as president, he would scare the
crap out of all those sissy Europeans and we would probably wind up
nuking Iran or any other pipsqueak who shakes a fist at us. It's funny
how Kadafi shut the hell up when RR sent the Air Force and Navy to knock
on his door. ?*snicker*
TDD- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Not that you're renouned for speaking softly. And you didn't get far
in Vietnam.
Actually, we got pretty far in Vietnam, considering that the mess was run by
Demonicrats. At the end, of course, the Demonicrats gave away the store, and
the 57K souls.

The last word hasn't been had in Iraq/Afghanistan yet
either. They're just waiting for you to go home. It took forty
years to democrify Japan, why should it be quicker in Iraq?
No one said it would. It is working, though. Afganistan will be tougher.

Try carrying a blue Book of Mormon at a Calvary Chapel, or Southern
batpist meeting, and let me know how it went. When you get out of the
hospital.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"harry" wrote in message
...


And their apostate neighbor is easier to kill.

And Christians don't hate one another?

harry wrote:
On May 16, 2:46�am, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 11:47:20 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Exactly which bit is reinvented?
Oh and BTW, it was a British scientist invented the internet too.
Oh, Harry, what shall I do with you. One Brit is credited with
developing the _World Wide Web_ (maybe others).

Not the Internet. Thank Our Military Might for helping you.

Contrary to popular belief, Gore did not invent ARPANET.

Contrary to popular US belief, Bill Gates did not invent the
computer! :-)

I don't know anyone in the U.S. who believes Bill Gates
invented the computer but I've been out of college about
four decades. I'll ask the six little kids next door to
me and find out what drivel has been fed to them in the
government schools they attend. This is going to be very
interesting. LIGHT BULB!! Hey! I have an idea, I need a
list of questions to ask them. Everyone should submit a
question and I could make a list of them to ask my little
friends. I could post the results.

TDD

harry wrote:
On May 16, 7:52�am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 15, 3:25 pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 06:04:22 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:
On May 15, 12:08?pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 15, 4:26 am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
aemeijers wrote in
:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
My Russian cousins lost so many people in the war and they have
every right to be paranoid. Hitler should have paid attention to
history. The Russians are very pragmatic and will grind anyone
into the ground who is foolish enough to attack them on their
home turf, Ruskies don't play. Boris, have you hugged a terrorist
today? Da! Hugged him like bear till eyeballs pop out!
That's why we have so many bug-eyed Afghanis?
I don't believe anyone will ever be able to conquer Afghanistan. It
will take an autochthonous government to control that country and
even then, it will be extremely difficult if not impossible.
TDD
It is stretching the term to call it a country. Most of that part of the
world is really ****ant little feifdoms, much like Europe after Rome
fell, and the borders on the map a western invention of convenience.
Loyalty is to clan/village/sect, not to nation-state.
so what happens when one of those sects decides to launch attacks on the
US,originating from bases in that "nation"?
(and the others resist our retribution...)
What would YOU do?(as one responsible for US security and defense.)
either some Afghan group takes authority and keeps some control over
them all,or it's a lawless land and anything goes,including "genocide" when
they attack the US from there,or go there to hide from us.
Our problem is that we listen to our whiners,weenies,and politically
correct and give them too much weight.
And lots of OUR people unnecessarily die from doing that.
Israel has pretty much the same problem.
We MUST establish that attacking the US is a REALLY bad idea.
We can be a good friend or a terrible enemy. We can't be both.
What was it that ancient Cave Politician said? "Walk softly but
carry a big stick."
TDD- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Sounds like "W".
My fault, it's a common misquote, it happens when one doesn't research.
What Theodore Roosevelt said was not "walk softly but carry a big stick"
as is often mis-quoted. He gave his famous quote during a speech in 1903:
There is a homely old adage which runs: "Speak softly and carry a big
stick; you will go far." If the American nation will speak softly, and
yet build and keep at a pitch of the highest training a thoroughly
efficient navy, the Monroe Doctrine will go far.
Darn, we need another Teddy Roosevelt as president, he would scare the
crap out of all those sissy Europeans and we would probably wind up
nuking Iran or any other pipsqueak who shakes a fist at us. It's funny
how Kadafi shut the hell up when RR sent the Air Force and Navy to knock
on his door. ?*snicker*
TDD- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Not that you're renouned for speaking softly. And you didn't get far
in Vietnam.
Actually, we got pretty far in Vietnam, considering that the mess was run by
Demonicrats. At the end, of course, the Demonicrats gave away the store, and
the 57K souls.
The last word hasn't been had in Iraq/Afghanistan yet
either. They're just waiting for you to go home. It took forty
years to democrify Japan, why should it be quicker in Iraq?
No one said it would. It is working, though. Afganistan will be tougher.
Might have to kill a lot more of them.
The solution to the problem lies not in armed force. It's in minding
your own business. Like leaving these Jews to stew in their own
juice.
Ah, now we get to your anti-Semitic core. You *are* a piece of ****.
Cease sending armis to Israel and support the Palestiians and all your
problems will be solved. And before you start, Israel is not a
democracy.
...in spades.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I know fascisism when I see it. rounding up people and putting them in
concentration camps. Stealing their land and property. Dropping
(American supplied) cluster bombs on civilians. Raining down (American
supplied) phosphorus on civilians. Shooting unarmed civilians. They
are the scum of the earth and they are your "friends".
All exact parallels to Nazi Germany.
These are the causes of 11/9, nothing to do with non-existent WMDs,
Iraq & only slightly Afghanistan. �You are damned half wits. �If you
chase Alqaeda out of Afghanistan they will go to Yemen. �If you chase
them out of Yemen, they will go to Somalia. And you already have been
chased out of Somalia.
Darn, aren't you going to blame the French for selling them aircraft?

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep, the frogs are almost the scummiest race on the planet. They also
sold Saddam Hussein an atomic reactor for his scientists to play
with.
We sold him parts for his supergun. Though it would never have worked
anyway. You can see parts on it in the imperial war museum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Babylon

Harry, we have to spread the blame amongst all industrialized countries.
A Canadian engineer, British bankers, US government and corporations,
I'm sure Germans were involved, the despot had to own Mercedes and oh
yea, Rolls Royce automobiles. Heck, Saddam Hussein wheeled and dealed
with every country. I'll bet he got stuff from Israel but not through
official channels. Who can you say that he didn't obtain anything from?

TDD

aemeijers wrote in
:

Jim Yanik wrote:
aemeijers wrote in news:Q-
:

(snip)


Israel's land was NOT "taken from others".
It was taken from them,in Roman times. And since then,Jews have lived
there continuously,but persecuted. The Al-Aqsa mosque is built on
Jewish Temple remains. Jews have a long,tremendous history in that
land,1000's of years.


Apologies if you find this offensive, but I do not accept that modern
Israel is the legal successor to the Israel of old. It isn't at all
like the liberated former Soviet states where the old records still
existed, and some of the people who were kicked out or lost property
are actually still around. Sure, what was done to old Israel was a
sin, but there were multiple intervening governments recognized as the
valid government for the area, that granted recognized titles to land,
etc. The current state of Israel may share the name of a former
country on the same (roughly) site, but it is not the same country.
When US was organized, they mostly recognized the old land grants from
whatever country started whatever colony. Old Spanish land grants were
recognized when US took over FL and the Southwest, as were French land
descriptions and titles in Louisiana. I think when the west
'chartered' modern Israel, they harbored the illusion that something
similar would happen- a new government would be there, but anybody
that wanted to stay would not lose anything. Obviously, their grasp of
the hatred on the ground there was limited. A large part of the
non-Jewish population heeded the Arab-issued call to flee, with
promises that it would only be for a few months. (and if the
propaganda ads in US News are correct, the new government did not
force them to leave- they fled on their own.) None of the other Arab
states wanted them, and they wanted the wound to fester, so they were
put into the camps. A few generations later, there are a whole lot
more of them, way too many for Israeli society to absorb without
abandoning their core purpose of being 'the Jewish homeland'. Plenty
of blame to go around for all the nation-states that stuck their
finger in this mess over the last 20 centuries. But at this point,
because none of the immediate parties can see past their religions and
the sins that were committed against their forefathers, I truly
believe there never will be peace there. A real good example of why
religion and government should not mix, IMHO.

(and for actual historians waiting to jump in and correct me- save
your flames- I never claimed to be a Mideast expert. all of the above
is just off the top of my head from reading news reports for forty
years and watching history channel.)

My point was/is that the Jews have a better claim to that land than any of
the "Palestinians". And they have maintained that claim by the several wars
they have fought to retain it.

But the land of Israel was not "taken" from Arabs.
don't forget that the Grand Mufti and other Arab leaders told the Muslim
residents of that area to FLEE their homes so that the invading armies
could kill Jews without worrying about harming them. They ABANDONED their
lands,they lost their right to them in doing so.The Muslims that stayed
kept their lands,and have representation in Israel's government,something
no Arab nation has ever given to Jews living in their lands.They also enjoy
much greater freedom and better living standards.
Besides,that chunk of real estate has been part of many other nations,and
thus was NO nation's at the time the UN partitioned it to create the modern
State of Israel. There never was any nation of "Palestine". Note that
Jordan was offered the West Bank at the cease of hostilitites in 1967,but
Jordan wisely refused,and Egypt did the same for Gaza. Those residents were
not considered to be "Jordanians" or "Egyptians".

lastly,Israel deserves our support because they are a
democratic,free,Western nation with many common interests shared with the
US. They are a force for freedom in that area.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On May 16, 1:32�pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 16, 2:46 am, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 11:47:20 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Exactly which bit is reinvented?
Oh and BTW, it was a British scientist invented the internet too.
Oh, Harry, what shall I do with you. One Brit is credited with
developing the _World Wide Web_ (maybe others).

Not the Internet. Thank Our Military Might for helping you.

Contrary to popular belief, Gore did not invent ARPANET.

Contrary to popular US belief, Bill Gates did not invent the
computer! �:-)

I don't know anyone in the U.S. who believes Bill Gates
invented the computer but I've been out of college about
four decades. I'll ask the six little kids next door to
me and find out what drivel has been fed to them in the
government schools they attend. This is going to be very
interesting. LIGHT BULB!! Hey! I have an idea, I need a
list of questions to ask them. Everyone should submit a
question and I could make a list of them to ask my little
friends. I could post the results.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Excellent idea. You don't say how old they are.
Ask them the name and nationality of the first European to discover
the New World.
Where was the first settlement in the New World?
Who was the first president of America?

I can tell you, our kids wouldn't know the answers to these questions
thanks to B-liar and new labour.
Now don't tell us any lies. Report back nothing but the truth. :-)

On May 16, 1:11�pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Try carrying a blue Book of Mormon at a Calvary Chapel, or Southern
batpist meeting, and let me know how it went. When you get out of the
hospital.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
�www.lds.org
.

"harry" wrote in message

...



And their apostate neighbor is easier to kill.

And Christians don't hate one another?

As I said , the USA is a nasty violent place.
You could bring your book of Mormon into any church over here. It/you
would be considered a strange curiousity but no-one would even raise
their voice to you. They might even let you preach. We have true
freedom of speech. You can say what you like to people and they won't
shoot you. Our f***g government is trying to change all that it has
to be said. We are a very secular society. Few people take any
religion seriously. The churches are virtually empty. We know that
religion is the root of most evil.
Years ago some Mormons left one of their books with me. They were
door to door trying to convert people. I read through it and
concluded it was complete fiction. I think I still have it somewhere.

On May 16, 1:45�pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 16, 7:52 am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 15, 3:25 pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 06:04:22 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:
On May 15, 12:08?pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 15, 4:26 am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
aemeijers wrote in
news:ZsCdndcymbAbS3DWnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@gig anews.com:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
My Russian cousins lost so many people in the war and they have
every right to be paranoid. Hitler should have paid attention to
history. The Russians are very pragmatic and will grind anyone
into the ground who is foolish enough to attack them on their
home turf, Ruskies don't play. Boris, have you hugged a terrorist
today? Da! Hugged him like bear till eyeballs pop out!
That's why we have so many bug-eyed Afghanis?
I don't believe anyone will ever be able to conquer Afghanistan. It
will take an autochthonous government to control that country and
even then, it will be extremely difficult if not impossible.
TDD
It is stretching the term to call it a country. Most of that part of the
world is really ****ant little feifdoms, much like Europe after Rome
fell, and the borders on the map a western invention of convenience.
Loyalty is to clan/village/sect, not to nation-state.
so what happens when one of those sects decides to launch attacks on the
US,originating from bases in that "nation"?
(and the others resist our retribution...)
What would YOU do?(as one responsible for US security and defense.)
either some Afghan group takes authority and keeps some control over
them all,or it's a lawless land and anything goes,including "genocide" when
they attack the US from there,or go there to hide from us.
Our problem is that we listen to our whiners,weenies,and politically
correct and give them too much weight.
And lots of OUR people unnecessarily die from doing that.
Israel has pretty much the same problem.
We MUST establish that attacking the US is a REALLY bad idea.
We can be a good friend or a terrible enemy. We can't be both.
What was it that ancient Cave Politician said? "Walk softly but
carry a big stick."
TDD- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Sounds like "W".
My fault, it's a common misquote, it happens when one doesn't research.
What Theodore Roosevelt said was not "walk softly but carry a big stick"
as is often mis-quoted. He gave his famous quote during a speech in 1903:
There is a homely old adage which runs: "Speak softly and carry a big
stick; you will go far." If the American nation will speak softly, and
yet build and keep at a pitch of the highest training a thoroughly
efficient navy, the Monroe Doctrine will go far.
Darn, we need another Teddy Roosevelt as president, he would scare the
crap out of all those sissy Europeans and we would probably wind up
nuking Iran or any other pipsqueak who shakes a fist at us. It's funny
how Kadafi shut the hell up when RR sent the Air Force and Navy to knock
on his door. ?*snicker*
TDD- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Not that you're renouned for speaking softly. And you didn't get far
in Vietnam.
Actually, we got pretty far in Vietnam, considering that the mess was run by
Demonicrats. At the end, of course, the Demonicrats gave away the store, and
the 57K souls.
The last word hasn't been had in Iraq/Afghanistan yet
either. They're just waiting for you to go home. It took forty
years to democrify Japan, why should it be quicker in Iraq?
No one said it would. It is working, though. Afganistan will be tougher.
Might have to kill a lot more of them.
The solution to the problem lies not in armed force. It's in minding
your own business. Like leaving these Jews to stew in their own
juice.
Ah, now we get to your anti-Semitic core. You *are* a piece of ****.
Cease sending armis to Israel and support the Palestiians and all your
problems will be solved. And before you start, Israel is not a
democracy.
...in spades.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I know fascisism when I see it. rounding up people and putting them in
concentration camps. Stealing their land and property. Dropping
(American supplied) cluster bombs on civilians. Raining down (American
supplied) phosphorus on civilians. Shooting unarmed civilians. They
are the scum of the earth and they are your "friends".
All exact parallels to Nazi Germany.
These are the causes of 11/9, nothing to do with non-existent WMDs,
Iraq & only slightly Afghanistan. You are damned half wits. If you
chase Alqaeda out of Afghanistan they will go to Yemen. If you chase
them out of Yemen, they will go to Somalia. And you already have been
chased out of Somalia.
Darn, aren't you going to blame the French for selling them aircraft?

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep, the frogs are almost the scummiest race on the planet. �They also
sold Saddam Hussein an atomic reactor for his scientists to play
with.
We sold him parts for his supergun. �Though it would never have worked
anyway. �You can see parts on it in the imperial war museum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Babylon

Harry, we have to spread the blame amongst all industrialized countries.
A Canadian engineer, British bankers, US government and corporations,
I'm sure Germans were involved, the despot had to own Mercedes and oh
yea, Rolls Royce automobiles. Heck, Saddam Hussein wheeled and dealed
with every country. I'll bet he got stuff from Israel but not through
official channels. Who can you say that he didn't obtain anything from?

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Saddam Hussien is no worse than lots of other rulers. The Jews wanted
rid of him, that was all. Iraq needs to be ruled withan iron fist.
It has been for five thousand years. It is their tradition. He was
just the ultimate republican.
Now of course the Jews want rid of the Iran regime. More American
boys are gonna die. More taxpayers dollar will be expended. It will
be ten times worse than Iraq. The Iranians are ready for you.

Hey someone said I was anti Semetic. Ha ha. I have travelled most
countries of the Middle East. I have stayed in peoples houses and
tents. I have ridden a camel further than I have ridden a horse. I
have stood on top of the great pyramid and walked the streets of
Damascus and Babylon. Just about everywhere I have been treated as
kindly as I was in Iowa. Better, I suppose, because the people in the
ME could not really afford it.
The most anti-semetic country in the world is Israel.
Arabs are Semites too.
So I hate f***g Israelis for what they are doing toPalestinians but I
am not anti-semetic.

On May 16, 2:02�pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
aemeijers wrote om:





Jim Yanik wrote:
aemeijers wrote in news:Q-
:

(snip)

Israel's land was NOT "taken from others". �
It was taken from them,in Roman times. And since then,Jews have lived
there continuously,but persecuted. The Al-Aqsa mosque is built on
Jewish Temple remains. Jews have a long,tremendous history in that
land,1000's of years.

Apologies if you find this offensive, but I do not accept that modern
Israel is the legal successor to the Israel of old. It isn't at all
like the liberated former Soviet states where the old records still
existed, and some of the people who were kicked out or lost property
are actually still around. Sure, what was done to old Israel was a
sin, but there were multiple intervening governments recognized as the
valid government for the area, that granted recognized titles to land,
etc. The current state of Israel may share the name of a former
country on the same (roughly) site, �but it is not the same country.
When US was organized, they mostly recognized the old land grants from
whatever country started whatever colony. Old Spanish land grants were
recognized when US took over FL and the Southwest, as were French land
descriptions and titles in Louisiana. I think when the west
'chartered' modern Israel, they harbored the illusion that something
similar would happen- a new government would be there, but anybody
that wanted to stay would not lose anything. Obviously, their grasp of
the hatred on the ground there was limited. A large part of the
non-Jewish population heeded the Arab-issued call to flee, with
promises that it would only be for a few months. (and if the
propaganda ads in US News are correct, the new government did not
force them to leave- they fled on their own.) �None of the other Arab
states wanted them, and they wanted the wound to fester, so they were
put into the camps. A few generations later, there are a whole lot
more of them, way too many for Israeli society to absorb without
abandoning their core purpose of being 'the Jewish homeland'. Plenty
of blame to go around for all the nation-states that stuck their
finger in this mess over the last 20 centuries. But at this point,
because none of the immediate parties can see past their religions and
the sins that were committed against their forefathers, I truly
believe there never will be peace there. A real good example of why
religion and government should not mix, IMHO.

(and for actual historians waiting to jump in and correct me- save
your flames- I never claimed to be a Mideast expert. all of the above
is just off the top of my head from reading news reports for forty
years and watching history channel.)

My point was/is that the Jews have a better claim to that land than any of
the "Palestinians". And they have maintained that claim by the several wars
they have fought to retain it.

But the land of Israel was not "taken" from Arabs.
don't forget that the Grand Mufti and other Arab leaders told the Muslim
residents of that area to FLEE their homes so that the invading armies
could kill Jews without worrying about harming them. They ABANDONED their
lands,they lost their right to them in doing so.The Muslims that stayed
kept their lands,and have representation in Israel's government,something
no Arab nation has ever given to Jews living in their lands.They also enjoy
much greater freedom and better living standards.
Besides,that chunk of real estate has been part of many other nations,and
thus was NO nation's at the time the UN partitioned it to create the modern
State of Israel. There never was any nation of "Palestine". Note that
Jordan was offered the West Bank at the cease of hostilitites in 1967,but
Jordan wisely refused,and Egypt did the same for Gaza. Those residents were
not considered to be "Jordanians" or "Egyptians".

lastly,Israel deserves our support because they are a
democratic,free,Western nation with many common interests shared with the
US. They are a force for freedom in that area.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you become a refugee it doesn't mean you have permanently abondoned
your home. You have got out of a war zone to protect your family.
They were driven out as Isreal is still doing today.
Democratic nations do not drive out their inhabitants, pull down their
houses and build houses for Jews only. Democratic nations don't find
it neccesary to construct massive walls to shut out citizens of that
country. Democratic nations don't shell concentration camps. They are
just Nazi scum. They are in breach of hundreds of UN resolutions.
They only get away with it because of American support.

harry wrote:
On May 16, 1:32�pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 16, 2:46 am, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 11:47:20 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:
Exactly which bit is reinvented?
Oh and BTW, it was a British scientist invented the internet too.
Oh, Harry, what shall I do with you. One Brit is credited with
developing the _World Wide Web_ (maybe others).
Not the Internet. Thank Our Military Might for helping you.
Contrary to popular belief, Gore did not invent ARPANET.
Contrary to popular US belief, Bill Gates did not invent the
computer! �:-)
I don't know anyone in the U.S. who believes Bill Gates
invented the computer but I've been out of college about
four decades. I'll ask the six little kids next door to
me and find out what drivel has been fed to them in the
government schools they attend. This is going to be very
interesting. LIGHT BULB!! Hey! I have an idea, I need a
list of questions to ask them. Everyone should submit a
question and I could make a list of them to ask my little
friends. I could post the results.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Excellent idea. You don't say how old they are.
Ask them the name and nationality of the first European to discover
the New World.
Where was the first settlement in the New World?
Who was the first president of America?

I can tell you, our kids wouldn't know the answers to these questions
thanks to B-liar and new labour.
Now don't tell us any lies. Report back nothing but the truth. :-)

Oh they're cute little kids and they're nice and polite, I've even
complemented their parents who told me that they had raised them
that way. I met them one day when I heard a knock at the door and
I opened it to six Negro children aged 12 and younger, they asked
me if I could please get their ball that had gone over the fence
in the back yard. If they had asked with an attitude, there would
have been a problem but these are sweet kids. I don't know when
I'll see them next but I will definitely try to remember to ask
them about what they're learning in school.

TDD

On Sat, 15 May 2010 11:49:26 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

On May 15, 3:20?pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 01:26:51 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:
On May 15, 6:30?am, "
wrote:
On Fri, 14 May 2010 16:22:05 -0700, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 14 May 2010 05:40:41 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Harry, have you thought about why you're not speaking German right now?
It might have something to do with an evil, selfish, former colony that
came to the aid of Great Britain about 70 years ago. It's funny that
this horrid, selfish, terror exporting, gun worshiping, imperialist,
evil country I live in is so quick to offer or come to the aid of those
people who spit in our face. Perhaps my country should tell the rest of
the world to bugger off?

TDD

Agree.

Stop all foreign aid immediately - pay our damn bills, first.

I speak as many languages as Harry. English, Redneck and Profanity.

Pull all troops out of the UK and Germany. ?Put them in Poland, if necessary.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why Poland?

Because, at least until Obama, they rather appreciated our support. ?I'm sure
they would appreciate the money. ?You? ?We made a big mistake in WWII.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why would they need to be in Poland? You planning on invading Russia?

No, protect your ass, once again. But maybe that isn't such a good idea.

harry wrote:
On May 16, 1:45�pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 16, 7:52 am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 15, 3:25 pm, "
wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2010 06:04:22 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:
On May 15, 12:08?pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 15, 4:26 am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:
aemeijers wrote in
:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
My Russian cousins lost so many people in the war and they have
every right to be paranoid. Hitler should have paid attention to
history. The Russians are very pragmatic and will grind anyone
into the ground who is foolish enough to attack them on their
home turf, Ruskies don't play. Boris, have you hugged a terrorist
today? Da! Hugged him like bear till eyeballs pop out!
That's why we have so many bug-eyed Afghanis?
I don't believe anyone will ever be able to conquer Afghanistan. It
will take an autochthonous government to control that country and
even then, it will be extremely difficult if not impossible.
TDD
It is stretching the term to call it a country. Most of that part of the
world is really ****ant little feifdoms, much like Europe after Rome
fell, and the borders on the map a western invention of convenience.
Loyalty is to clan/village/sect, not to nation-state.
so what happens when one of those sects decides to launch attacks on the
US,originating from bases in that "nation"?
(and the others resist our retribution...)
What would YOU do?(as one responsible for US security and defense.)
either some Afghan group takes authority and keeps some control over
them all,or it's a lawless land and anything goes,including "genocide" when
they attack the US from there,or go there to hide from us.
Our problem is that we listen to our whiners,weenies,and politically
correct and give them too much weight.
And lots of OUR people unnecessarily die from doing that.
Israel has pretty much the same problem.
We MUST establish that attacking the US is a REALLY bad idea.
We can be a good friend or a terrible enemy. We can't be both.
What was it that ancient Cave Politician said? "Walk softly but
carry a big stick."
TDD- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Sounds like "W".
My fault, it's a common misquote, it happens when one doesn't research.
What Theodore Roosevelt said was not "walk softly but carry a big stick"
as is often mis-quoted. He gave his famous quote during a speech in 1903:
There is a homely old adage which runs: "Speak softly and carry a big
stick; you will go far." If the American nation will speak softly, and
yet build and keep at a pitch of the highest training a thoroughly
efficient navy, the Monroe Doctrine will go far.
Darn, we need another Teddy Roosevelt as president, he would scare the
crap out of all those sissy Europeans and we would probably wind up
nuking Iran or any other pipsqueak who shakes a fist at us. It's funny
how Kadafi shut the hell up when RR sent the Air Force and Navy to knock
on his door. ?*snicker*
TDD- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Not that you're renouned for speaking softly. And you didn't get far
in Vietnam.
Actually, we got pretty far in Vietnam, considering that the mess was run by
Demonicrats. At the end, of course, the Demonicrats gave away the store, and
the 57K souls.
The last word hasn't been had in Iraq/Afghanistan yet
either. They're just waiting for you to go home. It took forty
years to democrify Japan, why should it be quicker in Iraq?
No one said it would. It is working, though. Afganistan will be tougher.
Might have to kill a lot more of them.
The solution to the problem lies not in armed force. It's in minding
your own business. Like leaving these Jews to stew in their own
juice.
Ah, now we get to your anti-Semitic core. You *are* a piece of ****.
Cease sending armis to Israel and support the Palestiians and all your
problems will be solved. And before you start, Israel is not a
democracy.
...in spades.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I know fascisism when I see it. rounding up people and putting them in
concentration camps. Stealing their land and property. Dropping
(American supplied) cluster bombs on civilians. Raining down (American
supplied) phosphorus on civilians. Shooting unarmed civilians. They
are the scum of the earth and they are your "friends".
All exact parallels to Nazi Germany.
These are the causes of 11/9, nothing to do with non-existent WMDs,
Iraq & only slightly Afghanistan. You are damned half wits. If you
chase Alqaeda out of Afghanistan they will go to Yemen. If you chase
them out of Yemen, they will go to Somalia. And you already have been
chased out of Somalia.
Darn, aren't you going to blame the French for selling them aircraft?
TDD- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Yep, the frogs are almost the scummiest race on the planet. �They also
sold Saddam Hussein an atomic reactor for his scientists to play
with.
We sold him parts for his supergun. �Though it would never have worked
anyway. �You can see parts on it in the imperial war museum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Babylon
Harry, we have to spread the blame amongst all industrialized countries.
A Canadian engineer, British bankers, US government and corporations,
I'm sure Germans were involved, the despot had to own Mercedes and oh
yea, Rolls Royce automobiles. Heck, Saddam Hussein wheeled and dealed
with every country. I'll bet he got stuff from Israel but not through
official channels. Who can you say that he didn't obtain anything from?

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Saddam Hussien is no worse than lots of other rulers. The Jews wanted
rid of him, that was all. Iraq needs to be ruled withan iron fist.
It has been for five thousand years. It is their tradition. He was
just the ultimate republican.
Now of course the Jews want rid of the Iran regime. More American
boys are gonna die. More taxpayers dollar will be expended. It will
be ten times worse than Iraq. The Iranians are ready for you.

Hey someone said I was anti Semetic. Ha ha. I have travelled most
countries of the Middle East. I have stayed in peoples houses and
tents. I have ridden a camel further than I have ridden a horse. I
have stood on top of the great pyramid and walked the streets of
Damascus and Babylon. Just about everywhere I have been treated as
kindly as I was in Iowa. Better, I suppose, because the people in the
ME could not really afford it.
The most anti-semetic country in the world is Israel.
Arabs are Semites too.
So I hate f***g Israelis for what they are doing toPalestinians but I
am not anti-semetic.

One of my Middle Eastern immigrant friends once said to me "The only
person who can control Iraq is Saddam Hussein." I suppose he meant
that the only way to control people of that culture was with an iron
fist. There seems to be something about the people that needs strict
laws and swift and brutal punishment or there would be no respect for
authority. I often hear it said that if you show someone of that ilk
any compassion, they consider it a sign of weakness. Perhaps your
close contact with Middle Eastern culture would give you a better
insight as to the thought processes of its people?

TDD

* What is global warming?

* And why is it important to you and me?

* What is the difference between Republicans and Democrats?

* Who is the best President of the United States? Why?

* Is an electric car pollution free?

* What is cholesterol? Is it good or bad?

* What is sodium? Is it something you'd want to eat?

* Name three things that are environmentally friendly.

* Name three things that harm the environment.

* What are some things that adults do to harm the planet?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...

I don't know anyone in the U.S. who believes Bill Gates
invented the computer but I've been out of college about
four decades. I'll ask the six little kids next door to
me and find out what drivel has been fed to them in the
government schools they attend. This is going to be very
interesting. LIGHT BULB!! Hey! I have an idea, I need a
list of questions to ask them. Everyone should submit a
question and I could make a list of them to ask my little
friends. I could post the results.

TDD

Well, that does sound a bit more free than my experience with the USA.
Thank you for writing, I'm always curious how things are, around the
world.

I wonder if wearing a star of David into a Mosque would have the same
peaceful result?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"harry" wrote in message
...

On May 16, 1:11�pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Try carrying a blue Book of Mormon at a Calvary Chapel, or Southern
batpist meeting, and let me know how it went. When you get out of
the
hospital.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

As I said , the USA is a nasty violent place.
You could bring your book of Mormon into any church over here. It/you
would be considered a strange curiousity but no-one would even raise
their voice to you. They might even let you preach. We have true
freedom of speech. You can say what you like to people and they won't
shoot you. Our f***g government is trying to change all that it has
to be said. We are a very secular society. Few people take any
religion seriously. The churches are virtually empty. We know that
religion is the root of most evil.
Years ago some Mormons left one of their books with me. They were
door to door trying to convert people. I read through it and
concluded it was complete fiction. I think I still have it somewhere.

Sounds like if you ask them politely, you should get a good view of
what's being taught in skewls. I like the other gentleman's questions,
also.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...


Excellent idea. You don't say how old they are.
Ask them the name and nationality of the first European to discover
the New World.
Where was the first settlement in the New World?
Who was the first president of America?

I can tell you, our kids wouldn't know the answers to these
questions
thanks to B-liar and new labour.
Now don't tell us any lies. Report back nothing but the truth.
:-)

Oh they're cute little kids and they're nice and polite, I've even
complemented their parents who told me that they had raised them
that way. I met them one day when I heard a knock at the door and
I opened it to six Negro children aged 12 and younger, they asked
me if I could please get their ball that had gone over the fence
in the back yard. If they had asked with an attitude, there would
have been a problem but these are sweet kids. I don't know when
I'll see them next but I will definitely try to remember to ask
them about what they're learning in school.

TDD

Stormin Mormon wrote:
* What is global warming?

* And why is it important to you and me?

* What is the difference between Republicans and Democrats?

* Who is the best President of the United States? Why?

* Is an electric car pollution free?

* What is cholesterol? Is it good or bad?

* What is sodium? Is it something you'd want to eat?

* Name three things that are environmentally friendly.

* Name three things that harm the environment.

* What are some things that adults do to harm the planet?

* Why do some seeming adults continue to ignore Usenet convention
and continue to top post even when politely asked to stop doing so?

TDD

aemeijers wrote:

Apologies if you find this offensive, but I do not accept that modern
Israel is the legal successor to the Israel of old. It isn't at all
like the liberated former Soviet states where the old records still
existed, and some of the people who were kicked out or lost property
are actually still around. Sure, what was done to old Israel was a
sin, but there were multiple intervening governments recognized as
the valid government for the area, that granted recognized titles to
land, etc. The current state of Israel may share the name of a former
country on the same (roughly) site, but it is not the same country.
When US was organized, they mostly recognized the old land grants
from whatever country started whatever colony. Old Spanish land
grants were recognized when US took over FL and the Southwest, as
were French land descriptions and titles in Louisiana. I think when
the west 'chartered' modern Israel, they harbored the illusion that
something similar would happen- a new government would be there, but
anybody that wanted to stay would not lose anything. Obviously, their
grasp of the hatred on the ground there was limited. A large part of
the non-Jewish population heeded the Arab-issued call to flee, with
promises that it would only be for a few months. (and if the
propaganda ads in US News are correct, the new government did not
force them to leave- they fled on their own.) None of the other Arab
states wanted them, and they wanted the wound to fester, so they were
put into the camps. A few generations later, there are a whole lot
more of them, way too many for Israeli society to absorb without
abandoning their core purpose of being 'the Jewish homeland'. Plenty
of blame to go around for all the nation-states that stuck their
finger in this mess over the last 20 centuries. But at this point,
because none of the immediate parties can see past their religions
and the sins that were committed against their forefathers, I truly
believe there never will be peace there. A real good example of why
religion and government should not mix, IMHO.

Specifically, the Ottoman Empire (established 1299) joined with Germany
during WWI. Turkey lost, fair and square, under trial by arms.

Most of the Ottoman empire was taken over by the League of Nations, the
acknowledged winner in the war. That land was divided up between the British
and the French to administer, the so-called "Mandatory Powers."

With the permission of the League - and its successor, the United Nations -
various bits were granted independence: Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, etc.

In 1948, the United Nations saw fit to establish the State of Israel out of
land it owned having won it from the Turks.

That, in a nutshell, is the legal provenance of modern Israel.
Interestingly, in that region, Israel is the only country to have given back
land that it conquered by force of arms (Sinai, Gaza, etc.). (In reality,
Israel, like every Arab country, doesn't want the Palestinians either.)

If the claim that current lands should revert to their former inhabitants,
not only would there be no penalty for waging war, but Athens and Budapest
would be part of the resurrected Caliphate.

harry wrote:

If you become a refugee it doesn't mean you have permanently abondoned
your home. You have got out of a war zone to protect your family.

Agreed.

They were driven out as Isreal is still doing today.

Absolutely not so. "Abandoned land" is held in trust for lawful inheritors.

Democratic nations do not drive out their inhabitants, pull down their
houses and build houses for Jews only.

Neither do the Jews. Arabs are evicted because they build houses (actually
shacks) without permits on land bought by Jews.

Democratic nations don't find
it neccesary to construct massive walls to shut out citizens of that
country.

Neither does Israel. It builds walls to keep out terrorists.

As to put the lie to your statement, for 19 years, from 1948 until the
six-day war of 1967, the King of Jordan forbade any Israeli Muslim from
crossing the border to worship at the third holiest site in Islam (the
Mosque of Omar on the Temple Mount). He built a wall to keep his own
co-religionists out.

When the Israeli paratroopers captured Jerusalem from the Jordanians, Moshe
Dyan announced the policy that any pilgrim of any faith was free to worship
at any holy site under Israeli control. Specifically, if any Muslim crossed
the Allenby Bridge on a pilgrimage to Harem Shariff, he would be allowed to
come unimpeded (the pilgrim was not, however, permitted to carry grenades).

Democratic nations don't shell concentration camps.

Neither do Israelis. I know the incident to which you refer. The fact is
Christian militia in Lebanon killed Arabs in a refugee camp and the Jews got
the blame.


They are
just Nazi scum. They are in breach of hundreds of UN resolutions.
They only get away with it because of American support.

I call "Godwin," hope you rot in Hell, and if I ever get the chance, I'll be
glad to help send you there.

On May 17, 5:47�am, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

If you become a refugee it doesn't mean you have permanently abondoned
your home. �You have got out of a war zone to protect your family.

Agreed.

They were driven out as Isreal is still doing today.

Absolutely not so. "Abandoned land" is held in trust for lawful inheritors.

Democratic nations do not drive out their inhabitants, pull down their
houses and build houses for �Jews only.

Neither do the Jews. Arabs are evicted because they build houses (actually
shacks) without permits on land bought by Jews.

Democratic nations don't find
it neccesary to construct massive walls to shut out citizens of that
country.

Neither does Israel. It builds walls to keep out terrorists.

As to put the lie to your statement, for 19 years, from 1948 until the
six-day war of 1967, the King of Jordan forbade any Israeli Muslim from
crossing the border to worship at the third holiest site in Islam (the
Mosque of Omar on the Temple Mount). He built a wall to keep his own
co-religionists out.

When the Israeli paratroopers captured Jerusalem from the Jordanians, Moshe
Dyan announced the policy that any pilgrim of any faith was free to worship
at any holy site under Israeli control. Specifically, if any Muslim crossed
the Allenby Bridge on a pilgrimage to Harem Shariff, he would be allowed to
come unimpeded (the pilgrim was not, however, permitted to carry grenades).

Democratic nations don't shell concentration camps.

Neither do Israelis. I know the incident to which you refer. The fact is
Christian militia in Lebanon killed Arabs in a refugee camp and the Jews got
the blame.

They are
just Nazi scum. �They are in breach of hundreds of UN resolutions.
They only get away with it because of American support.

I call "Godwin," hope you rot in Hell, and if I ever get the chance, I'll be
glad to help send you there.

You are in cloud cuckoo land. All Jews go to hell automatically. You
are an example of why. Godwin. I presume you are refering to the
autor of Frankinstein' monster. Yes, that would fit.

On May 17, 5:35�am, "HeyBub" wrote:
aemeijers wrote:

Apologies if you find this offensive, but I do not accept that modern
Israel is the legal successor to the Israel of old. It isn't at all
like the liberated former Soviet states where the old records still
existed, and some of the people who were kicked out or lost property
are actually still around. Sure, what was done to old Israel was a
sin, but there were multiple intervening governments recognized as
the valid government for the area, that granted recognized titles to
land, etc. The current state of Israel may share the name of a former
country on the same (roughly) site, �but it is not the same country.
When US was organized, they mostly recognized the old land grants
from whatever country started whatever colony. Old Spanish land
grants were recognized when US took over FL and the Southwest, as
were French land descriptions and titles in Louisiana. I think when
the west 'chartered' modern Israel, they harbored the illusion that
something similar would happen- a new government would be there, but
anybody that wanted to stay would not lose anything. Obviously, their
grasp of the hatred on the ground there was limited. A large part of
the non-Jewish population heeded the Arab-issued call to flee, with
promises that it would only be for a few months. (and if the
propaganda ads in US News are correct, the new government did not
force them to leave- they fled on their own.) �None of the other Arab
states wanted them, and they wanted the wound to fester, so they were
put into the camps. A few generations later, there are a whole lot
more of them, way too many for Israeli society to absorb without
abandoning their core purpose of being 'the Jewish homeland'. Plenty
of blame to go around for all the nation-states that stuck their
finger in this mess over the last 20 centuries. But at this point,
because none of the immediate parties can see past their religions
and the sins that were committed against their forefathers, I truly
believe there never will be peace there. A real good example of why
religion and government should not mix, IMHO.

Specifically, the Ottoman Empire (established 1299) joined with Germany
during WWI. Turkey lost, fair and square, under trial by arms.

Most of the Ottoman empire was taken over by the League of Nations, the
acknowledged winner in the war. That land was divided up between the British
and the French to administer, the so-called "Mandatory Powers."

With the permission of the League - and its successor, the United Nations -
various bits were granted independence: Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, etc.

In 1948, the United Nations saw fit to establish the State of Israel out of
land it owned having won it from the Turks.

That, in a nutshell, is the legal provenance of modern Israel.
Interestingly, in that region, Israel is the only country to have given back
land that it conquered by force of arms (Sinai, Gaza, etc.). (In reality,
Israel, like every Arab country, doesn't want the Palestinians either.)

If the claim that current lands should revert to their former inhabitants,
not only would there be no penalty for waging war, but Athens and Budapest
would be part of the resurrected Caliphate.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Trial by arms. What a load of crap. Trial by arms is not justice. You
are a halfwit.
There's agood case for giving the USA back the Indians. That is where
these dopey remarks originate from.

Yeah, let me know what the kids say in answer to that.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...

* Why do some seeming adults continue to ignore Usenet convention
and continue to top post even when politely asked to stop doing so?

TDD

On May 17, 2:35*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
aemeijers wrote:

Apologies if you find this offensive, but I do not accept that modern
Israel is the legal successor to the Israel of old. It isn't at all
like the liberated former Soviet states where the old records still
existed, and some of the people who were kicked out or lost property
are actually still around. Sure, what was done to old Israel was a
sin, but there were multiple intervening governments recognized as
the valid government for the area, that granted recognized titles to
land, etc. The current state of Israel may share the name of a former
country on the same (roughly) site, *but it is not the same country.
When US was organized, they mostly recognized the old land grants
from whatever country started whatever colony. Old Spanish land
grants were recognized when US took over FL and the Southwest, as
were French land descriptions and titles in Louisiana. I think when
the west 'chartered' modern Israel, they harbored the illusion that
something similar would happen- a new government would be there, but
anybody that wanted to stay would not lose anything. Obviously, their
grasp of the hatred on the ground there was limited. A large part of
the non-Jewish population heeded the Arab-issued call to flee, with
promises that it would only be for a few months. (and if the
propaganda ads in US News are correct, the new government did not
force them to leave- they fled on their own.) *None of the other Arab
states wanted them, and they wanted the wound to fester, so they were
put into the camps. A few generations later, there are a whole lot
more of them, way too many for Israeli society to absorb without
abandoning their core purpose of being 'the Jewish homeland'. Plenty
of blame to go around for all the nation-states that stuck their
finger in this mess over the last 20 centuries. But at this point,
because none of the immediate parties can see past their religions
and the sins that were committed against their forefathers, I truly
believe there never will be peace there. A real good example of why
religion and government should not mix, IMHO.

Specifically, the Ottoman Empire (established 1299) joined with Germany
during WWI. Turkey lost, fair and square, under trial by arms.

Most of the Ottoman empire was taken over by the League of Nations, the
acknowledged winner in the war. That land was divided up between the British
and the French to administer, the so-called "Mandatory Powers."

With the permission of the League - and its successor, the United Nations -
various bits were granted independence: Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, etc.

In 1948, the United Nations saw fit to establish the State of Israel out of
land it owned having won it from the Turks.

That, in a nutshell, is the legal provenance of modern Israel.
Interestingly, in that region, Israel is the only country to have given back
land that it conquered by force of arms (Sinai, Gaza, etc.). (In reality,
Israel, like every Arab country, doesn't want the Palestinians either.)

If the claim that current lands should revert to their former inhabitants,
not only would there be no penalty for waging war, but Athens and Budapest
would be part of the resurrected Caliphate.- Hide quoted text -

That's not very long ago!

How far BACK would you like to go ........................ couple of
thousand years maybe?

To pre-Christian times; perhaps two thousand BC?

Or before that, to when humans had just started coming out of
Africa ...................... get real and current.

All this regionalism and nationalism should be (as one song says) "Be
antique".

And, oh by the way, the world is already overpopulated, by humans, at
the expense of everything else, fish, fauna, the environment et al.

In article , terry wrote:

And, oh by the way, the world is already overpopulated, by humans, at
the expense of everything else, fish, fauna, the environment et al.

So what do you intend to do about that?

terry wrote:

And, oh by the way, the world is already overpopulated, by humans, at
the expense of everything else, fish, fauna, the environment et al.

Yeah, that's what Paul Ehrlich said some years ago ("The Population Bomb").
In fact he predicted widespread famine resulting in the die-off of half the
worlds population by 1980.

Ehrlich now fills the pointless hours of his days advocating the perils of
global warming.

---

All the people on earth, all six billion of them, if stacked like cordwood
would fit in a cubic mile.

At the population density of Hong Kong, the world's population would fit in
the state of West Virginia. Which would be, admittedly, pretty horrible.

The UK has its own version of Mexicans.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
harry wrote:

http://uk.ask.com/web?q=Afghans+Fran...&l=dir&siteid=

It's all very contentious. Some F***g PC do-gooders want to let them
in.

How would you like 20 million Mexicans invading your country and
trying to take it over?

TDD

On Sun, 16 May 2010 08:56:25 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

So I hate f***g Israelis for what they are doing toPalestinians but I
am not anti-semetic.

[ Liar, estimated....]

What you say is that multiple religions cannot live on the same earth.

Ever hear of Winston Churchill sinking allied (French) anchored
ships? Yes he did and it ****ed the French off. You do not call THAT
rape or PILLAGE

Why do you hate?

Getting even is better, IMHO

On Mon, 17 May 2010 19:43:24 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , terry wrote:

And, oh by the way, the world is already overpopulated, by humans, at
the expense of everything else, fish, fauna, the environment et al.

So what do you intend to do about that?

Plant trees and shrubs, is what I suggest.

Toss in some vegetables!?

On May 18, 2:32�am, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 16 May 2010 08:56:25 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

So I hate f***g Israelis for what they are doing toPalestinians but I
am not anti-semetic.

[ Liar, estimated....]

What you say is that multiple religions cannot live on the same earth.

Ever hear of Winston Churchill sinking �allied (French) anchored
ships? Yes he did and it ****ed the French off. You do not call THAT
rape or PILLAGE

Why do you hate?

Getting even is better, IMHO

Religion is the root of most evil.
No, it seems multiple religion can't live together. Astonishing how
people come to believe in such tosh.

The sinking of the French navy at Oran was performed because they
refused to turn their ships over to the Brits after the fall of
France. We couldn't let them fall into the hands of Hitler. They
were given every chance to surrender and warned of the consequences.
So you've got it wrong again. The French were not our allies by then.
The (Vichy) French regime was co-operating with Hitler at that point.
As far as I know, notjing was stolen and no-one was raped.
Do you even know the meanings of those words?

I have met many refugee Palestinians in Jordan and heard from them
what happened to them first hand. I don't listen to Fox TV and dimwit
propaganda from people who have never been near the place. So it is
apparent to me what scum zionists are.

On May 17, 11:17�pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
The UK has its own version of Mexicans.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
�www.lds.org
.

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in ...

harry wrote:
http://uk.ask.com/web?q=Afghans+Fran...ry&qsrc=0&o =...

It's all very contentious. Some F***g PC do-gooders want to let them
in.

How would you like 20 million Mexicans invading your country and
trying to take it over?

TDD

As I have explained if you read my post, they have to be kept out.

On May 17, 8:43�pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , terry wrote:

And, oh by the way, the world is already overpopulated, by humans, at
the expense of everything else, fish, fauna, the environment et al.

So what do you intend to do about that?

It won't be neccesary to do anything as I explained. Nature will sort
out the problem in the usual brutal way. They will starve or be
killed in fighting between themseves. It's already begun.
It's just vitally neccesary to keep out the floods of refugees from
our countries.

On May 17, 10:11�pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
terry wrote:

And, oh by the way, the world is already overpopulated, by humans, at
the expense of everything else, fish, fauna, the environment et al.

Yeah, that's what Paul Ehrlich said some years ago ("The Population Bomb").
In fact he predicted widespread famine resulting in the die-off of half the
worlds population by 1980.

Ehrlich now fills the pointless hours of his days advocating the perils of
global warming.

---

All the people on earth, all six billion of them, if stacked like cordwood
would fit in a cubic mile.

At the population density of Hong Kong, the world's population would fit in
the state of West Virginia. Which would be, admittedly, pretty horrible.

I never heard of him. However, he's exactly right, just got the
timescale wrong.
The crunch time won't be long now. As fossil fuel become more
expensive and rare, the world won't be able to sustain the present
artificially high population.
What's the point of more people? I can never understand the dimwits
that have huge families, epecially the one that can't feed/clothe/
educate/house them.
A lot of them are religious nuts, I believe, just trying to crowd out
other religious nuts.

harry wrote:

I have met many refugee Palestinians in Jordan and heard from them
what happened to them first hand. I don't listen to Fox TV and dimwit
propaganda from people who have never been near the place. So it is
apparent to me what scum zionists are.

Poor Palestinians. They ran away from the Israelis - who did not kick them
out.

On the other hand, the Jordanians DID kick the Palestinians out of Jordan
(hence, the 'Black September' movement). They moved to Lebanon which, until
the arrival of the Palestinians was the Riveria of the middle-east. They
managed to **** the country up big time, so the Syrians and Israelis chased
them out of there. From Lebanon, they moved to Cyprus and Tunisia, becoming
the wetbacks of the area.

They sided with Hussein when he invaded Kuwait, and when the Kuwaities
returned to their homes, the first thing they did was kick out the
Palestinians. For siding with Hussein, the Iraqis told the Palestinians to
adios it, mach schnell!

Israel tried to give Gaza to Egypt, along with the rest of the Sinai. Egypt
said "No thanks, it's full of Palestinians." Jordan likewise renounced all
interest in the West Bank because it, too, was full of Palestinians.

Over 100,000,000 people have voted on the issue (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon,
Cyprus, Tunisia, Kuwait, Israel, and Iraq). Nobody wants the Palestinians!
Heck, the Palestinians don't even like each other.

You may very well be the ONLY person on the planet who will tolerate them.

---

Here's an interesting factoid you should take to heart before you get too
worked up over hating the Zionists.

As we speak, there are about 13,000 lifers in the Israeli Defense Force
(IDF) and another 100,000 or so fulfilling their mandatory service. So,
tonight, there are about 120,000 soldiers under arms in Israel.

That number can be increased to 640,000 in 72 hours, with the first quarter
million deployed in combat, on three fronts, by this time tomorrow.

The U.S. Department of Defense estimates that Israel can field 18 land
divisions (infantry and armor). If so, that puts the IDF at fifty percent
greater strength than that authorized for the U.S. military (10 Army and 2
Marine divisions).

It is known that the IDF can fight a war on three fronts, without
significant resupply for 30 days. The greatest maximum endurance under NATO
contingency plans was ten days.

You REALLY don't want to **** with Israel!

On May 19, 3:26�am, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

I have met many refugee Palestinians in Jordan and heard from them
what happened to them first hand. �I don't listen to Fox TV and dimwit
propaganda �from people who have never been near the place. �So it is
apparent to me what scum zionists are.

Poor Palestinians. They ran away from the Israelis - who did not kick them
out.

On the other hand, the Jordanians DID kick the Palestinians out of Jordan
(hence, the 'Black September' movement). They moved to Lebanon which, until
the arrival of the Palestinians was the Riveria of the middle-east. They
managed to **** the country up big time, so the Syrians and Israelis chased
them out of there. From Lebanon, they moved to Cyprus and Tunisia, becoming
the wetbacks of the area.

They sided with Hussein when he invaded Kuwait, and when the Kuwaities
returned to their homes, the first thing they did was kick out the
Palestinians. For siding with Hussein, the Iraqis told the Palestinians to
adios it, mach schnell!

Israel tried to give Gaza to Egypt, along with the rest of the Sinai. Egypt
said "No thanks, it's full of Palestinians." Jordan likewise renounced all
interest in the West Bank because it, too, was full of Palestinians.

Over 100,000,000 people have voted on the issue (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon,
Cyprus, Tunisia, Kuwait, Israel, and Iraq). Nobody wants the Palestinians!
Heck, the Palestinians don't even like each other.

You may very well be the ONLY person on the planet who will tolerate them..

---

Here's an interesting factoid you should take to heart before you get too
worked up over hating the Zionists.

As we speak, there are about 13,000 lifers in the Israeli Defense Force
(IDF) and another 100,000 or so fulfilling their mandatory service. So,
tonight, there are about 120,000 soldiers under arms in Israel.

That number can be increased to 640,000 in 72 hours, with the first quarter
million deployed in combat, on three fronts, by this time tomorrow.

The U.S. Department of Defense estimates that Israel can field 18 land
divisions (infantry and armor). If so, that puts the IDF at fifty percent
greater strength than that authorized for the U.S. military (10 Army and 2
Marine divisions).

It is known that the IDF can fight a war on three fronts, without
significant resupply for 30 days. The greatest maximum endurance under NATO
contingency plans was ten days.

You REALLY don't want to **** with Israel!

All the above doesn't detract from the fact they are scum. They are
only able to sustain such an army because of the meddling U$A. It
won't last. The USA is broke, owned by the Chinese. There will be
cuts. I expect aid to the scum will be among them.
Hearing the way you speak you definately deserved 11/9. There will be
other attacks I expect. Even the security must be cost billions of
dollars the USA can't afford.
BTW, nobody voted on any of the issues. You don't get to vote in most
of the states mentioned as they are not democracies. Nobody in the
USA wants Mexicans.
You ramble on in a demented fashion about an area of the world you
have clearly never visited, spouting crap from Fox TV and dodgy
statistics.
BTW is it bub as in beelzebub?