On May 16, 2:02�pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
aemeijers wrote om:





Jim Yanik wrote:
aemeijers wrote in news:Q-
:

(snip)

Israel's land was NOT "taken from others". �
It was taken from them,in Roman times. And since then,Jews have lived
there continuously,but persecuted. The Al-Aqsa mosque is built on
Jewish Temple remains. Jews have a long,tremendous history in that
land,1000's of years.

Apologies if you find this offensive, but I do not accept that modern
Israel is the legal successor to the Israel of old. It isn't at all
like the liberated former Soviet states where the old records still
existed, and some of the people who were kicked out or lost property
are actually still around. Sure, what was done to old Israel was a
sin, but there were multiple intervening governments recognized as the
valid government for the area, that granted recognized titles to land,
etc. The current state of Israel may share the name of a former
country on the same (roughly) site, �but it is not the same country.
When US was organized, they mostly recognized the old land grants from
whatever country started whatever colony. Old Spanish land grants were
recognized when US took over FL and the Southwest, as were French land
descriptions and titles in Louisiana. I think when the west
'chartered' modern Israel, they harbored the illusion that something
similar would happen- a new government would be there, but anybody
that wanted to stay would not lose anything. Obviously, their grasp of
the hatred on the ground there was limited. A large part of the
non-Jewish population heeded the Arab-issued call to flee, with
promises that it would only be for a few months. (and if the
propaganda ads in US News are correct, the new government did not
force them to leave- they fled on their own.) �None of the other Arab
states wanted them, and they wanted the wound to fester, so they were
put into the camps. A few generations later, there are a whole lot
more of them, way too many for Israeli society to absorb without
abandoning their core purpose of being 'the Jewish homeland'. Plenty
of blame to go around for all the nation-states that stuck their
finger in this mess over the last 20 centuries. But at this point,
because none of the immediate parties can see past their religions and
the sins that were committed against their forefathers, I truly
believe there never will be peace there. A real good example of why
religion and government should not mix, IMHO.

(and for actual historians waiting to jump in and correct me- save
your flames- I never claimed to be a Mideast expert. all of the above
is just off the top of my head from reading news reports for forty
years and watching history channel.)

My point was/is that the Jews have a better claim to that land than any of
the "Palestinians". And they have maintained that claim by the several wars
they have fought to retain it.

But the land of Israel was not "taken" from Arabs.
don't forget that the Grand Mufti and other Arab leaders told the Muslim
residents of that area to FLEE their homes so that the invading armies
could kill Jews without worrying about harming them. They ABANDONED their
lands,they lost their right to them in doing so.The Muslims that stayed
kept their lands,and have representation in Israel's government,something
no Arab nation has ever given to Jews living in their lands.They also enjoy
much greater freedom and better living standards.
Besides,that chunk of real estate has been part of many other nations,and
thus was NO nation's at the time the UN partitioned it to create the modern
State of Israel. There never was any nation of "Palestine". Note that
Jordan was offered the West Bank at the cease of hostilitites in 1967,but
Jordan wisely refused,and Egypt did the same for Gaza. Those residents were
not considered to be "Jordanians" or "Egyptians".

lastly,Israel deserves our support because they are a
democratic,free,Western nation with many common interests shared with the
US. They are a force for freedom in that area.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you become a refugee it doesn't mean you have permanently abondoned
your home. You have got out of a war zone to protect your family.
They were driven out as Isreal is still doing today.
Democratic nations do not drive out their inhabitants, pull down their
houses and build houses for Jews only. Democratic nations don't find
it neccesary to construct massive walls to shut out citizens of that
country. Democratic nations don't shell concentration camps. They are
just Nazi scum. They are in breach of hundreds of UN resolutions.
They only get away with it because of American support.