"May 7) -- It seemed like a good idea -- make some extra cash by
selling a diamond ring on Craigslist. But a Washington state man who
opened his door to what he thought was a prospective buyer found a
band of murderous thieves instead, police said.

Jim Sanders, 43, spoke on the phone to a man who responded to his
website ad. He gave the man his address in Edgewood, a Tacoma suburb,
and set up a meeting time so the buyer could inspect the ring, police
said. But when Sanders answered the door on April 28, three men and a
woman stood on the doorstep. One of the strangers pulled a gun and the
gang forced its way inside, police said."

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article...-ring/19469483

Oren wrote:
"May 7) -- It seemed like a good idea -- make some extra cash by
selling a diamond ring on Craigslist. But a Washington state man who
opened his door to what he thought was a prospective buyer found a
band of murderous thieves instead, police said.

Jim Sanders, 43, spoke on the phone to a man who responded to his
website ad. He gave the man his address in Edgewood, a Tacoma suburb,
and set up a meeting time so the buyer could inspect the ring, police
said. But when Sanders answered the door on April 28, three men and a
woman stood on the doorstep. One of the strangers pulled a gun and the
gang forced its way inside, police said."

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article...-ring/19469483


How stupid can one get?

--
LSMFT

If I wasn't me I wouldn't like me either..........

Oren wrote in
:

"May 7) -- It seemed like a good idea -- make some extra cash by
selling a diamond ring on Craigslist. But a Washington state man who
opened his door to what he thought was a prospective buyer found a
band of murderous thieves instead, police said.

Jim Sanders, 43, spoke on the phone to a man who responded to his
website ad. He gave the man his address in Edgewood, a Tacoma suburb,
and set up a meeting time so the buyer could inspect the ring, police
said. But when Sanders answered the door on April 28, three men and a
woman stood on the doorstep. One of the strangers pulled a gun and the
gang forced its way inside, police said."

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article...rs-killed-by-r
obbers-who-saw-his-craigslist-ad-for-diamond-ring/19469483


Much better to be robbed by the pawn shop

"Oren" wrote in message
...
"May 7) -- It seemed like a good idea -- make some extra cash by
selling a diamond ring on Craigslist. But a Washington state man who
opened his door to what he thought was a prospective buyer found a
band of murderous thieves instead, police said.

Jim Sanders, 43, spoke on the phone to a man who responded to his
website ad. He gave the man his address in Edgewood, a Tacoma suburb,
and set up a meeting time so the buyer could inspect the ring, police
said. But when Sanders answered the door on April 28, three men and a
woman stood on the doorstep. One of the strangers pulled a gun and the
gang forced its way inside, police said."


http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article...-ring/19469483


So what is your point?

Theft's happen all the time. If someone wanted to steal a diamond ring I
can think of a lot easier ways than responding to a craigslist ad. As an
example if one were to go to a grocery store in an affluent neighborhood and
just wait until you see one that you would like to steal and then car jack
the owner of the ring.

If anything the craigslist case proves it was a rather lousy plan. Not only
did they get arrested, but they got into a tousle and now they are facing
the death penalty.

Robbing a bank would be so much easier than boosting a wedding ring.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Oren" wrote in message
...
"May 7) -- It seemed like a good idea -- make some extra cash by
selling a diamond ring on Craigslist. But a Washington state man who
opened his door to what he thought was a prospective buyer found a
band of murderous thieves instead, police said.

Jim Sanders, 43, spoke on the phone to a man who responded to his
website ad. He gave the man his address in Edgewood, a Tacoma suburb,
and set up a meeting time so the buyer could inspect the ring, police
said. But when Sanders answered the door on April 28, three men and a
woman stood on the doorstep. One of the strangers pulled a gun and the
gang forced its way inside, police said."


http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article...-ring/19469483

So what is your point?

Theft's happen all the time. If someone wanted to steal a diamond ring I
can think of a lot easier ways than responding to a craigslist ad. As an
example if one were to go to a grocery store in an affluent neighborhood and
just wait until you see one that you would like to steal and then car jack
the owner of the ring.

If anything the craigslist case proves it was a rather lousy plan. Not only
did they get arrested, but they got into a tousle and now they are facing
the death penalty.

Robbing a bank would be so much easier than boosting a wedding ring.


Various guides on how to use CL and similar services always recommend
meeting in a public place for initial contacts. In a small town like
this nobody bothers, but I have seen ads worded like they would prefer
neutral ground to look at stuff.

I don't want to seem crass in the face of a tragedy, but even something
as innocent as a garage sale can be used as a way to case a house.
People I know refuse to have them for just that reason. They don't want
strangers to have an excuse to eyeball the layout, the quality of other
stuff stored in garage, to make friends with their dog under innocent
circumstances, etc.

I'm not losing sleep over it, but then again I'm not selling any
high-dollar items. Entire contents of this house would probably only
bring a couple grand from a fence.

--
aem sends...

On Mon, 10 May 2010 18:12:34 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:


"Oren" wrote in message
.. .


So what is your point?

Nothing special but to just be careful.


Theft's happen all the time. If someone wanted to steal a diamond ring I
can think of a lot easier ways than responding to a craigslist ad. As an
example if one were to go to a grocery store in an affluent neighborhood and
just wait until you see one that you would like to steal and then car jack
the owner of the ring.

If anything the craigslist case proves it was a rather lousy plan. Not only
did they get arrested, but they got into a tousle and now they are facing
the death penalty.

Robbing a bank would be so much easier than boosting a wedding ring.

Some people are not really savvy and do silly things: ex., steal fish
from a controlled environment test site. Bank robbery is about a 25
year bit in the feds. Stolen fish will get you two years in the pokey.

Just be careful, Y' all!

"Roger Shoaf" wrote

Robbing a bank would be so much easier than boosting a wedding ring.


It certainly is. A few weeks ago a couple of guys here it CT wanted to rob
a bank. They were smart enough to call ahead so the bank would have the
money ready for them. Another genius did not take that step, but he was
apprehended outside the bank waiting for a cab for the get-a-way.

I thought robbing banks would be a somewhat rare crime, but in our state
alone there are hundreds every year.

On Mon, 10 May 2010 22:00:17 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

I thought robbing banks would be a somewhat rare crime, but in our state
alone there are hundreds every year.

"Meet Willie Sutton
Willie Sutton was a refreshing hood. He robbed banks and he was good
at it. He made no bones about that. He usually packed a gun, either a
pistol or a Thompson submachine gun--"You can't rob a bank on charm
and personality"--but took a professional's pride in never using it.
Sutton stole from the rich and he kept it, though in later years he
was popular with the public through some misplaced Robin Hood idea."

When they asked Willie why he robbed banks, his answer was that was
where the money was.

Oren wrote:
"May 7) -- It seemed like a good idea -- make some extra cash by
selling a diamond ring on Craigslist. But a Washington state man who
opened his door to what he thought was a prospective buyer found a
band of murderous thieves instead, police said.

Jim Sanders, 43, spoke on the phone to a man who responded to his
website ad. He gave the man his address in Edgewood, a Tacoma suburb,
and set up a meeting time so the buyer could inspect the ring, police
said. But when Sanders answered the door on April 28, three men and a
woman stood on the doorstep. One of the strangers pulled a gun and the
gang forced its way inside, police said."

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article...-ring/19469483


That was a regular Rainbow Coalition of Robbers. I saw that one of the
perps was a Hurricane Katrina migrant. I wonder how many crimes have
been committed by such folk in quiet communities that open their doors
to people displaced by Hurricane Katrina? It's such a shame, the
victims are really nice people who seem like the type who would help
anyone in need.

TDD

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Roger Shoaf" wrote

Robbing a bank would be so much easier than boosting a wedding ring.


It certainly is. A few weeks ago a couple of guys here it CT wanted to
rob a bank. They were smart enough to call ahead so the bank would have
the money ready for them. Another genius did not take that step, but
he was apprehended outside the bank waiting for a cab for the get-a-way.

I thought robbing banks would be a somewhat rare crime, but in our state
alone there are hundreds every year.

Well, the state could institute a program to catch and release
after sterilization so the dumbasses can't reproduce.

TDD

On May 10, 9:12*pm, "Roger Shoaf" wrote:


So what is your point?

Theft's happen all the time. *If someone wanted to steal a diamond ring I
can think of a lot easier ways than responding to a craigslist ad. *As an
example if one were to go to a grocery store in an affluent neighborhood and
just wait until you see one that you would like to steal and then car jack
the owner of the ring.

If anything the craigslist case proves it was a rather lousy plan. *Not only
did they get arrested, but they got into a tousle and now they are facing
the death penalty.

Robbing a bank would be so much easier than boosting a wedding ring.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.


This was not just a theft, it was a home invasion as well... The
value of the
item stolen will place the theft in the felony category... The tying
up of the
victims of the theft/home invasion is kidnapping/hostage taking...
They
clearly planned this event in advance going so far as to bring
multiple
firearms and ropes/cords to use in securing the victims which brings
a conspiracy charge into play also... So the fact that the death
occurred
during the commission of multiple felonies makes it clearly a case of
felony murder, the DA need not even prove that the killers intended to
kill someone during the crime, only that they did commit another
felony offense and someone died during its commission...

Your idea about the casing a grocery store in an affluent area to
car jack someone who walks around wearing lots of rich stuff is
exactly why car jacking is a most serious offense and is punished
much more harshly upon conviction than a case of simple theft of
a motor vehicle...

Committing a bank robbery is not as easy as you make it sound,
there are cash control policies in place so you would not be able
to get more than $3,000 cash from each teller drawer... To say
nothing about the fact that from the second you step into a bank
you are being recorded by CCTV cameras from every angle...

So yes, it would be much easier to steal and fence an antique
ring from unsuspecting parties in their own home compared to
attempting to rob a bank which is a hardened target...

~~ Evan

On May 11, 5:05�pm, Evan wrote:
On May 10, 9:12�pm, "Roger Shoaf" wrote:







So what is your point?

Theft's happen all the time. �If someone wanted to steal a diamond ring I
can think of a lot easier ways than responding to a craigslist ad. �As an
example if one were to go to a grocery store in an affluent neighborhood and
just wait until you see one that you would like to steal and then car jack
the owner of the ring.

If anything the craigslist case proves it was a rather lousy plan. �Not only
did they get arrested, but they got into a tousle and now they are facing
the death penalty.

Robbing a bank would be so much easier than boosting a wedding ring.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

This was not just a theft, it was a home invasion as well... �The
value of the
item stolen will place the theft in the felony category... �The tying
up of the
victims of the theft/home invasion is kidnapping/hostage taking...
They
clearly planned this event in advance going so far as to bring
multiple
firearms and ropes/cords to use in securing the victims which brings
a conspiracy charge into play also... �So the fact that the death
occurred
during the commission of multiple felonies makes it clearly a case of
felony murder, the DA need not even prove that the killers intended to
kill someone during the crime, only that they did commit another
felony offense and someone died during its commission...

Your idea about the casing a grocery store in an affluent area to
car jack someone who walks around wearing lots of rich stuff is
exactly why car jacking is a most serious offense and is punished
much more harshly upon conviction than a case of simple theft of
a motor vehicle...

Committing a bank robbery is not as easy as you make it sound,
there are cash control policies in place so you would not be able
to get more than $3,000 cash from each teller drawer... �To say
nothing about the fact that from the second you step into a bank
you are being recorded by CCTV cameras from every angle...

So yes, it would be much easier to steal and fence an antique
ring from unsuspecting parties in their own home compared to
attempting to rob a bank which is a hardened target...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Nasty violent place the USA.

In article , harry wrote:

Nasty violent place the USA.

Not as nasty, or as violent, as the UK:

UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the
highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, according to
new research.


By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase
in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour
came to power.

The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher
than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and
South Africa.


http://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of
-Europe.html

On Mon, 10 May 2010 23:09:33 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

That was a regular Rainbow Coalition of Robbers. I saw that one of the
perps was a Hurricane Katrina migrant. I wonder how many crimes have
been committed by such folk in quiet communities that open their doors
to people displaced by Hurricane Katrina? It's such a shame, the
victims are really nice people who seem like the type who would help
anyone in need.


The cops could learn a lesson here. Setup a reverse sting operation
and collect the predators for further examination.

A former Katrina victim came here. She and her daughter have a Cajun
Food restaurant, good food. The seafood is shipped from Louisiana
(that may soon change with the oil slick).

Cops sting pedophiles - why not murderers....

Oren wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2010 23:09:33 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

That was a regular Rainbow Coalition of Robbers. I saw that one of the
perps was a Hurricane Katrina migrant. I wonder how many crimes have
been committed by such folk in quiet communities that open their doors
to people displaced by Hurricane Katrina? It's such a shame, the
victims are really nice people who seem like the type who would help
anyone in need.


The cops could learn a lesson here. Setup a reverse sting operation
and collect the predators for further examination.

A former Katrina victim came here. She and her daughter have a Cajun
Food restaurant, good food. The seafood is shipped from Louisiana
(that may soon change with the oil slick).

Cops sting pedophiles - why not murderers....


I do believe there was a real problem with deadly home invasions
in Florida and the police started a sting to catch home invaders.
I searched a little but didn't find any particulars.

TDD

On Tue, 11 May 2010 12:02:56 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Nasty violent place the USA.

Give me a break. The UK should allow bullets for citizens, allow sharp
pointed sticks and edged garden implements. Tools of the trade so to
speak.

Next, the UK will ban fairy dust, Unicorns and Nigerian goats.

Maybe before that, it will be sharpened tooth brushes?

Oren wrote:
On Tue, 11 May 2010 12:02:56 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Nasty violent place the USA.

Give me a break. The UK should allow bullets for citizens, allow sharp
pointed sticks and edged garden implements. Tools of the trade so to
speak.

Next, the UK will ban fairy dust, Unicorns and Nigerian goats.

Maybe before that, it will be sharpened tooth brushes?

If you defend yourself in your own home when attacked by a
career criminal, you will be arrested for harming the criminal
and the charges against you will be more harsh than those
leveled against the criminal.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e9a_1260906888&c=1

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y8kolym

http://www.securedhome.co.uk/jailed-...ding-home.html

TDD

On May 10, 2:23*pm, LSMFT wrote:
Oren wrote:
"May 7) -- It seemed like a good idea -- make some extra cash by
selling a diamond ring on Craigslist. But a Washington state man who
opened his door to what he thought was a prospective buyer found a
band of murderous thieves instead, police said.

Jim Sanders, 43, spoke on the phone to a man who responded to his
website ad. He gave the man his address in Edgewood, a Tacoma suburb,
and set up a meeting time so the buyer could inspect the ring, police
said. But when Sanders answered the door on April 28, three men and a
woman stood on the doorstep. One of the strangers pulled a gun and the
gang forced its way inside, police said."

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article...ders-killed-by...

How stupid can one get?

--
LSMFT

If I wasn't me I wouldn't like me either..........

Stupid? Saw one of the females who IIRC was the getaway driver
leaving (escorted) the courtroom "It's not fair. I was only in the
car and had nothing to do with what happened, why should I get the
DP?"

Maybe her lawyer will take the time to educate her about the law.
'all participants in a crime are equally guilty'. At least that is
it in this state (WA).

Harry K

On May 11, 8:43�pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , harry wrote:

Nasty violent place the USA.

Not as nasty, or as violent, as the UK:

UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the
highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, according to
new research.

By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase
in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour
came to power.

The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher
than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and
South Africa.

http://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital�-of
-Europe.html

Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

As I say nasty violent place. Also world leader in exporting
terrorism.

"harry" wrote

Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

As I say nasty violent place. Also world leader in exporting
terrorism.

I'd like to see more of a breakdown on that too. I'm sure it will still be
high, but look at all murders, not just firearm related ones. It would also
be interesting to see how many are by non-USA citizens. That would either
inflame or put to rest the illegal immigrant argument on murders.

I was also surprised at the next chart showing the suicide of children less
than 15 y. o. in Ireland using guns.

On 5/12/2010 7:30 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"harry" wrote

Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

As I say nasty violent place. Also world leader in exporting
terrorism.

I'd like to see more of a breakdown on that too. I'm sure it will still
be high, but look at all murders, not just firearm related ones. It
would also be interesting to see how many are by non-USA citizens. That
would either inflame or put to rest the illegal immigrant argument on
murders.

I was also surprised at the next chart showing the suicide of children
less than 15 y. o. in Ireland using guns.



These are fairly useless figures unless you also show the murder and
suicide rates from all causes.

If you have draconian gun control laws so that the average citizen can't
off himself with a gun but people are jumping off every available bridge
or building, then what have you accomplished? People are still dying;
they've just had to find another way.

The same with murder: if you can't shoot somebody but you instead
dispatch him with a baseball bat, who have you saved? No one. No doubt
his widow will be relieved he wasn't shot.

I look at a country like Japan where suicides are fairly common and yet
there are very few guns. Their suicide rate is much higher than the
USA's but their suicide by gun rates are very low. So Japan appears to
be safer for the terminally depressed than living in the USA. Is that
the truth though? Somehow the suicidal find a way to accomplish their
intentions. Murderers do as well.

It's not the tool you need to focus on; it's the intent. One can always
find a tool. And apparently, a friendly set of meaningless statistics.



Jay

harry wrote:
On May 11, 8:43�pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , harry wrote:

Nasty violent place the USA.
Not as nasty, or as violent, as the UK:

UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the
highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, according to
new research.

By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase
in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour
came to power.

The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher
than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and
South Africa.

http://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital�-of
-Europe.html

Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

As I say nasty violent place. Also world leader in exporting
terrorism.

A side by side comparison with automobile related deaths would be
interesting. I think there are fewer vehicles than firearms but
more deaths and injuries due to vehicles. Automobiles should be
banned because, like guns, vehicles will jump up and hurt you by
themselves. I should know, I saw the movie Christine.

TDD

In article , harry wrote:
On May 11, 8:43=EF=BF=BDpm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article .=
com, harry wrote:

Nasty violent place the USA.

Not as nasty, or as violent, as the UK:

UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of =
the
highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, accordin=
g to
new research.

By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase
in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour
came to power.

The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher
than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and
South Africa.

http://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of
-Europe.html

Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

Doesn't change the fact that the UK is in truth *much* more violent than the
US. We haven't banned guns here, so our bad guys use guns. You banned guns, so
your bad guys used knives instead. Then you banned knives, and your bad guys
switched to clubs. When you ban clubs, they'll switch to garrotes.

At least *here* the law allows our citizens to defend themselves against bad
guys, unlike citizens of the UK.

Oh, wait, I forgot.

You aren't citizens. You're *subjects*. We used to be, too, but thank God and
Thomas Jefferson, we aren't anymore.

As I say nasty violent place.

An odd comment, coming from a resident of a nation with such a severe violence
problem that you found it necessary to ban glass bottles in your pubs. We
don't need to do that.

The UK is the most violent nation in Europe, demonstrably more violent than
anywhere else in the English-speaking world. The statistics show clearly that
the UK is a *far* more violent place than the US.

Also world leader in exporting terrorism.

Ummm, no, you apparently have us confused with Iran. Were you born this
stupid, or did you train?

harry wrote:

Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

As I say nasty violent place. Also world leader in exporting
terrorism.

The higher number of gun-related deaths in the US is mainly due to two
causes: suicide, and inner-city gangs shooting each other. Law abiding
American citizens with guns are not the problem.

Jon

On May 12, 12:30�pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"harry" wrote



Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

As I say nasty violent place. �Also world leader in exporting
terrorism.

I'd like to see more of a breakdown on that too. �I'm sure it will still be
high, but look at all murders, not just firearm related ones. �It would also
be interesting to see how many are by non-USA citizens. That would either
inflame or put to rest the illegal immigrant argument on murders.

I was also surprised at the next chart showing the suicide of children less
than 15 y. o. in Ireland using guns.

Yes that latter one does sound dodgy, I don't believe thar one
myself.
Guns in Ireland are there as a result of US exported terrorism.

In article , harry wrote:

Guns in Ireland are there as a result of US exported terrorism.

Wrong again, harry.

It's the *guns* that are US-exported.

The *terrorists* are all home grown in the UK.

You do seem to find it very difficult to admit to yourself the scope of the
violence problem in the UK. Your violence problem isn't our fault. Hint: you
didn't have much of a violence problem when your laws allowed your subjects
the right of self-defense, and your courts put malefactors in prison where
they belong. Now, if a subject uses force to defend himself against an attack,
*he's* the one in trouble with the law, not the attacker. We don't do it that
way here in the U.S., and that's why we don't have anywhere near the violence
problem that you do.

On May 12, 1:23�pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 11, 8:43 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , harry wrote:

Nasty violent place the USA.
Not as nasty, or as violent, as the UK:

UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the
highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, according to
new research.

By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase
in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour
came to power.

The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher
than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and
South Africa.

http://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital� -of
-Europe.html

Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

As I say nasty violent place. �Also world leader in exporting
terrorism.

A side by side comparison with automobile related deaths would be
interesting. I think there are fewer vehicles than firearms but
more deaths and injuries due to vehicles. Automobiles should be
banned because, like guns, vehicles will jump up and hurt you by
themselves. I should know, I saw the movie Christine.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Christine. Ah yes I have the video. Stephen King. And there's me
thinking it to be fiction.
Handguns have no other function but to kill people.
Cars only kill people when piloted by the drunk, drugged, incompetent
or the foolish.
Ah, the comparison.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/road...ings_2009.html

On May 12, 1:57�pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , harry wrote:





On May 11, 8:43=EF=BF=BDpm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article .=
com, harry wrote:

Nasty violent place the USA.

Not as nasty, or as violent, as the UK:

UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of =
the
highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, accordin=
g to
new research.

By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase
in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour
came to power.

The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher
than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and
South Africa.

http://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital�-of
-Europe.html

Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

Doesn't change the fact that the UK is in truth *much* more violent than the
US. We haven't banned guns here, so our bad guys use guns. You banned guns, so
your bad guys used knives instead. Then you banned knives, and your bad guys
switched to clubs. When you ban clubs, they'll switch to garrotes.

At least *here* the law allows our citizens to defend themselves against bad
guys, unlike citizens of the UK.

Oh, wait, I forgot.

You aren't citizens. You're *subjects*. We used to be, too, but thank God and
Thomas Jefferson, we aren't anymore.

As I say nasty violent place. �

An odd comment, coming from a resident of a nation with such a severe violence
problem that you found it necessary to ban glass bottles in your pubs. We
don't need to do that.

The UK is the most violent nation in Europe, demonstrably more violent than
anywhere else in the English-speaking world. The statistics show clearly that
the UK is a *far* more violent place than the US.

Also world leader in exporting terrorism.

Ummm, no, you apparently have us confused with Iran. Were you born this
stupid, or did you train?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let's see these statistics you refer to.

The USA has exported terrorism to virtually every country in South and
Central America. It has invaded and occupied places in the Carribean
and Pacific without reason. It still occupies Hawaii and Puerto Rico
though recently forced out of the Philipines. It has exported
terrorism to the Middle East and the UK. You illegally invaded Iraq.
You provide your Jewish friends with cluster bombs and phosphorus to
use on civilians.
And then you wonder why 11/9 happened?
Hmm you single out Iran. I seem to remember you shot down a civilian
airliner on it's lawful course and business belonging to Iran. That
cost the US taxpayer a few million bucks in compensation.

On May 12, 1:57�pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , harry wrote:





On May 11, 8:43=EF=BF=BDpm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article .=
com, harry wrote:

Nasty violent place the USA.

Not as nasty, or as violent, as the UK:

UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of =
the
highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, accordin=
g to
new research.

By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase
in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour
came to power.

The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher
than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and
South Africa.

http://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital�-of
-Europe.html

Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

Doesn't change the fact that the UK is in truth *much* more violent than the
US. We haven't banned guns here, so our bad guys use guns. You banned guns, so
your bad guys used knives instead. Then you banned knives, and your bad guys
switched to clubs. When you ban clubs, they'll switch to garrotes.

At least *here* the law allows our citizens to defend themselves against bad
guys, unlike citizens of the UK.

Oh, wait, I forgot.

You aren't citizens. You're *subjects*. We used to be, too, but thank God and
Thomas Jefferson, we aren't anymore.

As I say nasty violent place. �

An odd comment, coming from a resident of a nation with such a severe violence
problem that you found it necessary to ban glass bottles in your pubs. We
don't need to do that.

The UK is the most violent nation in Europe, demonstrably more violent than
anywhere else in the English-speaking world. The statistics show clearly that
the UK is a *far* more violent place than the US.

Also world leader in exporting terrorism.

Ummm, no, you apparently have us confused with Iran. Were you born this
stupid, or did you train?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh BTW, I am a subject of HM the Queen.
The Queen is infalliable (unlike the pope). Have you ever known her to
be wrong? The most experienced head of state on the planet.
If we didn't have the Queen the alternative would be the likes of
George Bush or Saddam Hussein. Perish the thought.

On May 12, 7:28�pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , harry wrote:

Guns in Ireland are there as a result of US exported terrorism.

Wrong again, harry.

It's the *guns* that are US-exported.

The *terrorists* are all home grown in the UK.

You do seem to find it very difficult to admit to yourself the scope of the
violence problem in the UK. Your violence problem isn't our fault. Hint: you
didn't have much of a violence problem when your laws allowed your subjects
the right of self-defense, and your courts put malefactors in prison where
they belong. Now, if a subject uses force to defend himself against an attack,
*he's* the one in trouble with the law, not the attacker. We don't do it that
way here in the U.S., and that's why we don't have anywhere near the violence
problem that you do.

The IRA was largely funded by the good citzens of Philadephia. Never
heard of the "Irish Widows" fund? Funding was eventually cut off when
Bush was forced to agree to the assets pursuit and freezing of
terrorist organisations world wide.
We feel quite pleased over here that the 11/9 plane passengers were
mostly from Philadelphia. Able to experience the effects of terrorism
forst hand for the first time.

In article , harry wrote:
On May 12, 1:57=EF=BF=BDpm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article =
..com, harry wrote:





On May 11, 8:43=3DEF=3DBF=3DBDpm, (Doug Miller) wrot=
e:
In article =
ps.=3D
com, harry wrote:

Nasty violent place the USA.

Not as nasty, or as violent, as the UK:

UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the
highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, according to
new research.

By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase
in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour
came to power.

The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher
than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and
South Africa.

http://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of
-Europe.html

Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

Doesn't change the fact that the UK is in truth *much* more violent than the
US. We haven't banned guns here, so our bad guys use guns. You banned guns, so
your bad guys used knives instead. Then you banned knives, and your bad guys
switched to clubs. When you ban clubs, they'll switch to garrotes.

At least *here* the law allows our citizens to defend themselves against bad
guys, unlike citizens of the UK.

Oh, wait, I forgot.

You aren't citizens. You're *subjects*. We used to be, too, but thank God and
Thomas Jefferson, we aren't anymore.

As I say nasty violent place.

An odd comment, coming from a resident of a nation with such a severe violence
problem that you found it necessary to ban glass bottles in your pubs. We
don't need to do that.

The UK is the most violent nation in Europe, demonstrably more violent than
anywhere else in the English-speaking world. The statistics show clearly that
the UK is a *far* more violent place than the US.

Also world leader in exporting terrorism.

Ummm, no, you apparently have us confused with Iran. Were you born this
stupid, or did you train?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let's see these statistics you refer to.

Cited in the article I excerpted above. Apparently you couldn't trouble
yourself to read it.

The USA has exported terrorism to virtually every country in South and
Central America.

False. You don't seem able to distinguish between exporting firearms and
exporting terrorism.

It has invaded and occupied places in the Carribean
and Pacific

True

without reason.

False.

It still occupies Hawaii

Hawaii is not "occupied", you ass. It's one of the 50 states. It's no more
"occupied" by the U.S. than Ohio is -- or Scotland is "occupied" by England.

Harry, you're an idiot. You know nothing of what you speak, yet that doesn't
slow you down at all. Perhaps if you pulled your head out of your arse long
enough to actually read a few facts, you wouldn't seem such a dolt.

In article , harry wrote:
On May 12, 7:28=EF=BF=BDpm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article =
..com, harry wrote:

Guns in Ireland are there as a result of US exported terrorism.

Wrong again, harry.

It's the *guns* that are US-exported.

The *terrorists* are all home grown in the UK.

You do seem to find it very difficult to admit to yourself the scope of the
violence problem in the UK. Your violence problem isn't our fault. Hint: you
didn't have much of a violence problem when your laws allowed your subjects
the right of self-defense, and your courts put malefactors in prison where
they belong. Now, if a subject uses force to defend himself against an attack,
*he's* the one in trouble with the law, not the attacker. We don't do it that
way here in the U.S., and that's why we don't have anywhere near the violence
problem that you do.

The IRA was largely funded by the good citzens of Philadephia.

Obviously the UK collectively did not learn any lessons from 1776. Your
problem with Irish terrorists was created by the insane policies of *your*
government.

Stop trying to blame us for a problem that you created.

harry wrote:
On May 12, 1:57�pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , harry wrote:





On May 11, 8:43=EF=BF=BDpm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article .=
com, harry wrote:
Nasty violent place the USA.
Not as nasty, or as violent, as the UK:
UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of =
the
highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, accordin=
g to
new research.
By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009
Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase
in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour
came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher
than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and
South Africa.
http://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital�-of
-Europe.html
Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html
Doesn't change the fact that the UK is in truth *much* more violent than the
US. We haven't banned guns here, so our bad guys use guns. You banned guns, so
your bad guys used knives instead. Then you banned knives, and your bad guys
switched to clubs. When you ban clubs, they'll switch to garrotes.

At least *here* the law allows our citizens to defend themselves against bad
guys, unlike citizens of the UK.

Oh, wait, I forgot.

You aren't citizens. You're *subjects*. We used to be, too, but thank God and
Thomas Jefferson, we aren't anymore.

As I say nasty violent place. �
An odd comment, coming from a resident of a nation with such a severe violence
problem that you found it necessary to ban glass bottles in your pubs. We
don't need to do that.

The UK is the most violent nation in Europe, demonstrably more violent than
anywhere else in the English-speaking world. The statistics show clearly that
the UK is a *far* more violent place than the US.

Also world leader in exporting terrorism.
Ummm, no, you apparently have us confused with Iran. Were you born this
stupid, or did you train?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh BTW, I am a subject of HM the Queen.
The Queen is infalliable (unlike the pope). Have you ever known her to
be wrong? The most experienced head of state on the planet.
If we didn't have the Queen the alternative would be the likes of
George Bush or Saddam Hussein. Perish the thought.

Oh my God! You could wind up with an Affirmative Action President like
we now have. *snicker*

TDD

harry wrote:
On May 12, 1:23�pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 11, 8:43 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , harry wrote:
Nasty violent place the USA.
Not as nasty, or as violent, as the UK:
UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the
highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, according to
new research.
By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009
Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase
in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour
came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher
than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and
South Africa.
http://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital� -of
-Europe.html
Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html
As I say nasty violent place. �Also world leader in exporting
terrorism.
A side by side comparison with automobile related deaths would be
interesting. I think there are fewer vehicles than firearms but
more deaths and injuries due to vehicles. Automobiles should be
banned because, like guns, vehicles will jump up and hurt you by
themselves. I should know, I saw the movie Christine.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Christine. Ah yes I have the video. Stephen King. And there's me
thinking it to be fiction.
Handguns have no other function but to kill people.

Funny, I thought they were to keep the other fellow with a handgun (or
whatever) from killing ME.

--
aem sends...

"Jay Hanig" wrote in message
...
On 5/12/2010 7:30 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"harry" wrote

Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

As I say nasty violent place. Also world leader in exporting
terrorism.

I'd like to see more of a breakdown on that too. I'm sure it will still
be high, but look at all murders, not just firearm related ones. It
would also be interesting to see how many are by non-USA citizens. That
would either inflame or put to rest the illegal immigrant argument on
murders.

I was also surprised at the next chart showing the suicide of children
less than 15 y. o. in Ireland using guns.



These are fairly useless figures unless you also show the murder and
suicide rates from all causes.

If you have draconian gun control laws so that the average citizen can't
off himself with a gun but people are jumping off every available bridge
or building, then what have you accomplished? People are still dying;
they've just had to find another way.

The same with murder: if you can't shoot somebody but you instead
dispatch him with a baseball bat, who have you saved? No one. No doubt
his widow will be relieved he wasn't shot.

Rather sad on the news tonight was the school children in China being
killed. They have strong gun laws so the murderers are using knives,
hammers, and cleavers instead.

aemeijers wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 12, 1:23�pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 11, 8:43 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article
,
harry wrote:
Nasty violent place the USA.
Not as nasty, or as violent, as the UK:
UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has
one of the
highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America,
according to
new research.
By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009
Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per
cent increase
in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since
Labour
came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to
population is higher
than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada,
Australia and
South Africa.
http://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital�
-of
-Europe.html
Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html
As I say nasty violent place. �Also world leader in exporting
terrorism.
A side by side comparison with automobile related deaths would be
interesting. I think there are fewer vehicles than firearms but
more deaths and injuries due to vehicles. Automobiles should be
banned because, like guns, vehicles will jump up and hurt you by
themselves. I should know, I saw the movie Christine.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Christine. Ah yes I have the video. Stephen King. And there's me
thinking it to be fiction.
Handguns have no other function but to kill people.

Funny, I thought they were to keep the other fellow with a handgun (or
whatever) from killing ME.


You can crack nuts with one or, blow them off.

TDD

On May 12, 8:00�pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , harry wrote:





On May 12, 1:57=EF=BF=BDpm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article =
..com, harry wrote:

On May 11, 8:43=3DEF=3DBF=3DBDpm, (Doug Miller) wrot=
e:
In article =
ps.=3D
com, harry wrote:

Nasty violent place the USA.

Not as nasty, or as violent, as the UK:

UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the
highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, according to
new research.

By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase
in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour
came to power.

The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher
than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and
South Africa.

http://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital�-of
-Europe.html

Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

Doesn't change the fact that the UK is in truth *much* more violent than the
US. We haven't banned guns here, so our bad guys use guns. You banned guns, so
your bad guys used knives instead. Then you banned knives, and your bad guys
switched to clubs. When you ban clubs, they'll switch to garrotes.

At least *here* the law allows our citizens to defend themselves against bad
guys, unlike citizens of the UK.

Oh, wait, I forgot.

You aren't citizens. You're *subjects*. We used to be, too, but thank God and
Thomas Jefferson, we aren't anymore.

As I say nasty violent place.

An odd comment, coming from a resident of a nation with such a severe violence
problem that you found it necessary to ban glass bottles in your pubs. We
don't need to do that.

The UK is the most violent nation in Europe, demonstrably more violent than
anywhere else in the English-speaking world. The statistics show clearly that
the UK is a *far* more violent place than the US.

Also world leader in exporting terrorism.

Ummm, no, you apparently have us confused with Iran. Were you born this
stupid, or did you train?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let's see these statistics you refer to.

Cited in the article I excerpted above. Apparently you couldn't trouble
yourself to read it.



The USA has exported terrorism to virtually every country in South and
Central America.

False. You don't seem able to distinguish between exporting firearms and
exporting terrorism.

It has invaded and occupied places in the Carribean
and Pacific

True

without reason.

False.

It still occupies Hawaii

Hawaii is not "occupied", you ass. It's one of the 50 states. It's no more
"occupied" by the U.S. than Ohio is -- or Scotland is "occupied" by England.

Harry, you're an idiot. You know nothing of what you speak, yet that doesn't
slow you down at all. Perhaps if you pulled your head out of your arse long
enough to actually read a few facts, you wouldn't seem such a dolt.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The link didn't work..
Hawaii.
Was forced into the USA by a vote that included thousands of US
servicemen stationed there at the time. They far outnumbered the
native Hawaiians. It was admitted in congress (Clintons era, 1993)
that the incorporation of Hawaii was illegal.
If you aren't aware of it, the state flag of Hawaii incorporates the
british flag "union jack". This is because the Hawaiians wanted to
join the British empire. They wanted our monarchy having experienced
republicanism first hand.
Many Kings and Queens of Hawaii have been illegally detained by the
USA, one quite recently.
The Hawaiians want their islands back. Hadn't you heard?
Bit on the topic he-
http://www.freehawaii.org/
Like most Americans you're very ignorant of your own history.
I expect you watch Fox News. Why not try Aljazeera or the BBC?
Or better just get yourself down to the library and read a non-fiction
book or two.

And you further reveal your ignorance, many Scots, Irish and Welsh do
consider themselves to be occupied by the English.

You could start with a history of the Spanish /American war before you
come spouting BS here.
Oh and try something about Cuba too. (Written by a non-American.)

There's nobody got their heads further up theur arses than republicans.

On May 13, 4:18�am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
aemeijers wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 12, 1:23 pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 11, 8:43 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article
,
harry wrote:
Nasty violent place the USA.
Not as nasty, or as violent, as the UK:
UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has
one of the
highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America,
according to
new research.
By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009
Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per
cent increase
in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since
Labour
came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to
population is higher
than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada,
Australia and
South Africa.
http://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital�
-of
-Europe.html
Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html
As I say nasty violent place. Also world leader in exporting
terrorism.
A side by side comparison with automobile related deaths would be
interesting. I think there are fewer vehicles than firearms but
more deaths and injuries due to vehicles. Automobiles should be
banned because, like guns, vehicles will jump up and hurt you by
themselves. I should know, I saw the movie Christine.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Christine. Ah yes I have the video. �Stephen King. And there's me
thinking it to be fiction.
Handguns have no other function but to kill people.

Funny, I thought they were to keep the other fellow with a handgun (or
whatever) from killing ME.

You can crack nuts with one or, blow them off.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Right, Now there's the mentality.

On May 13, 12:19�am, aemeijers wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 12, 1:23 pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 11, 8:43 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , harry wrote:
Nasty violent place the USA.
Not as nasty, or as violent, as the UK:
UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the
highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, according to
new research.
By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Published: 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009
Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase
in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour
came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher
than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and
South Africa.
http://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital� -of
-Europe.html
Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html
As I say nasty violent place. Also world leader in exporting
terrorism.
A side by side comparison with automobile related deaths would be
interesting. I think there are fewer vehicles than firearms but
more deaths and injuries due to vehicles. Automobiles should be
banned because, like guns, vehicles will jump up and hurt you by
themselves. I should know, I saw the movie Christine.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Christine. Ah yes I have the video. �Stephen King. And there's me
thinking it to be fiction.
Handguns have no other function but to kill people.

Funny, I thought they were to keep the other fellow with a handgun (or
whatever) from killing ME.

--
aem sends...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If no-one has a gun, no-one gets killed with a gun.
It's this scumbag gun culture that results in these numerous school
massacres in the US. I bet the parents of these kids wished they had
lived somewhere else at the time,

On May 13, 3:34�am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Jay Hanig" wrote in message

...





On 5/12/2010 7:30 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"harry" wrote

Comparative statistics here USA/Rest of the world:-
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...S/GUNSTAT.html

As I say nasty violent place. Also world leader in exporting
terrorism.

I'd like to see more of a breakdown on that too. I'm sure it will still
be high, but look at all murders, not just firearm related ones. It
would also be interesting to see how many are by non-USA citizens. That
would either inflame or put to rest the illegal immigrant argument on
murders.

I was also surprised at the next chart showing the suicide of children
less than 15 y. o. in Ireland using guns.

These are fairly useless figures unless you also show the murder and
suicide rates from all causes.

If you have draconian gun control laws so that the average citizen can't
off himself with a gun but people are jumping off every available bridge
or building, then what have you accomplished? �People are still dying;
they've just had to find another way.

The same with murder: �if you can't shoot somebody but you instead
dispatch him with a baseball bat, who have you saved? �No one. �No doubt
his widow will be relieved he wasn't shot.

Rather sad on the news tonight was the school children in China being
killed. �They have strong gun laws so the murderers are using knives,
hammers, and cleavers instead.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep very sad. If they'd had guns instead of knives they could have
killed SO many more. Maybe even got all the little perishers. Maybe
a few of the police. Maybe even escaped.