"[FLORIDA] The board of directors representing The Eagles, a deed restricted
community in Odessa, was trying to keep A.J. Vizzi from parking his Ford
pickup truck in his home's driveway. HOA rules state all trucks must be
parked in a garage."

Judge renders declaratory judgment in favor of truck owner, says HOA is
insane and must pay about $100,000 in legal fees. Take drug test.

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/most...9&provider=top

On Dec 17, 8:42�am, "HeyBub" wrote:
"[FLORIDA] The board of directors representing The Eagles, a deed restricted
community in Odessa, was trying to keep A.J. Vizzi from parking his Ford
pickup truck in his home's driveway. HOA rules state all trucks must be
parked in a garage."

Judge renders declaratory judgment in favor of truck owner, says HOA is
insane and must pay about $100,000 in legal fees. Take drug test.

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/most...yid=96159&prov....

why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........

my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the front yard no one
should be able to do a thing about it

On Dec 17, 10:52*am, " wrote:
On Dec 17, 8:42 am, "HeyBub" wrote:

"[FLORIDA] The board of directors representing The Eagles, a deed restricted
community in Odessa, was trying to keep A.J. Vizzi from parking his Ford
pickup truck in his home's driveway. HOA rules state all trucks must be
parked in a garage."

Judge renders declaratory judgment in favor of truck owner, says HOA is
insane and must pay about $100,000 in legal fees. Take drug test.

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/most...yid=96159&prov....

why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........

my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the front yard no one
should be able to do a thing about it

Gee: At that rate they wouldn't even allow my rig through the gate! Or
the $800 camper I bought and rebuilt, that occasionally goes on the
back of it! One of these months we must wash it.
A few thousand miles away people are dying for lack of clean water and
we have HOA worrying about nonsense like this!
It's all very well to set reasonable 'standards' for safety and health
but ................ !
BTW in many places the ownership of a large pickup is a 'status
symbol'. Soon to change possibly as economic conditions fall,
pollution rises and energy costs escalate however?
Also BTW does this kind of thing not smack of the European snobbery?
If you can afford a carriage, a team of horses and pay driver/ostler
you are in. But if all you can afford is a horse and cart and you look
after the horse yourself you are somehow not so worthy!
Same thing today with driving an SUV or pickup (many of which are
mechanically similar anyway)!
We know someone driving a Cadillac Escalade which is similar,
mechanically, to a Chevy pickup truck.
USA "Land of the free and the brave ..... " eh?????
Methinks there is more to this story??????? Sounds like the HOA
refrred to should hold an election.

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:38:46 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:52:28 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........

my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the front yard no one
should be able to do a thing about it

There are people who don't want anyone around them to upset their
little world with anything different than what their narrow mind finds
acceptable.
I wouldn't be shocked if this case is appealed. This fires a shot
across the bow of every HOA in Florida.

BTW truck restrictions are not that rare around here. In Cape Coral
you can't have a truck in your driveway by city ordinance.

Cape Coral: A Boy Scout family was fined for setting up tents in a
front yard. Just for a day; after a camping trip, so the tents would
air-out. It started when "snow-birds" didn't go back North...

This was in the late '70's.

On Dec 17, 1:38*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:52:28 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........

my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the front yard no one
should be able to do a thing about it

There are people who don't want anyone around them to upset their
little world with anything different than what their narrow mind finds
acceptable.
I wouldn't be shocked if this case is appealed. This fires a shot
across the bow of every HOA in Florida.

BTW truck restrictions are not that rare around here. In Cape Coral
you can't have a truck in your driveway by city ordinance.

Wonder what kind of stroke the HOA would have were one to buy a junker
car, chop the top back off and remove the trunk lid, viola! a Pickup
but the registration will show it is a car.

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
...
On Dec 17, 1:38 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:52:28 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........

my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the front yard no one
should be able to do a thing about it

There are people who don't want anyone around them to upset their
little world with anything different than what their narrow mind finds
acceptable.
I wouldn't be shocked if this case is appealed. This fires a shot
across the bow of every HOA in Florida.

BTW truck restrictions are not that rare around here. In Cape Coral
you can't have a truck in your driveway by city ordinance.

Wonder what kind of stroke the HOA would have were one to buy a junker
car, chop the top back off and remove the trunk lid, viola! a Pickup
but the registration will show it is a car.

Harry K

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then all of a
sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs are
enforced. Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the first
place if he didn't want to follow their rules. Don't get me wrong, I don't
like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs and
had no intention of following them.

Sanity wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message
...
On Dec 17, 1:38 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:52:28 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........ my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the
front yard no one should be able to do a thing about it
There are people who don't want anyone around them to upset their
little world with anything different than what their narrow mind
finds acceptable. I wouldn't be shocked if this case is appealed.
This fires a shot across the bow of every HOA in Florida.

BTW truck restrictions are not that rare around here. In Cape Coral
you can't have a truck in your driveway by city ordinance.

Wonder what kind of stroke the HOA would have were one to buy a
junker car, chop the top back off and remove the trunk lid, viola! a
Pickup but the registration will show it is a car.

Harry K

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to
buying they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them.
Then all of a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs
from the docs are enforced. Please explain why that person bought in
an HOA in the first place if he didn't want to follow their rules.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one
if I disagreed with the docs and had no intention of following them.

I believe in the case that hit fark.com recently (I assume that that is
what this thread is about) the home moaner actually did check out the
requirements before buying, but the ones being enforced are not the same
ones given to him to review pre-purchase. I think that he does have a
case if the facts are as represented in the article I read.

Oh, and HOA's suck.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then all of
a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs are
enforced. Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the first
place if he didn't want to follow their rules. Don't get me wrong, I
don't like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the
docs and had no intention of following them.


Just out of curiosity - do you have the right to refuse to sign the
agreement if you buy the house? IOW, can you buy a house in one of these HOA
neighborhoods, but refuse to sign or comply?

On 12/17/08 06:02 pm Sanity wrote:

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then all of a
sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs are
enforced. Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the first
place if he didn't want to follow their rules. Don't get me wrong, I don't
like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs and
had no intention of following them.

I've read of cases where prospective purchasers have been denied the
opportunity to read the HOA rules before purchasing the property and
thus being bound by them: "This is proprietary information."

Perce

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
On 12/17/08 06:02 pm Sanity wrote:

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then all
of a
sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs are
enforced. Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the first
place if he didn't want to follow their rules. Don't get me wrong, I
don't
like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs
and
had no intention of following them.

I've read of cases where prospective purchasers have been denied the
opportunity to read the HOA rules before purchasing the property and thus
being bound by them: "This is proprietary information."

Perce


Huh..I would think that you wouldn't need that sharp of a lawyer to get out
of that one. Unless they signed a statement agreeing to follow the rules
sight unseen.

HOAs are evil. I personally would *never* buy a house in a neighborhood with
an HOA. But I guess some people like them, so what-evah....

Zootal wrote:

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then all of
a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs are
enforced. Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the first
place if he didn't want to follow their rules. Don't get me wrong, I
don't like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the
docs and had no intention of following them.




Just out of curiosity - do you have the right to refuse to sign the
agreement if you buy the house? IOW, can you buy a house in one of these HOA
neighborhoods, but refuse to sign or comply?




Deed restricted........rules go with the land. There is a way to
dissolve condo. associations in Florida,
so probably also for HOA's. Different statutes. For condo, I believe
it requires assent by all of the
unit owners.

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

On 12/17/08 06:02 pm Sanity wrote:

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then
all of a
sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs are
enforced. Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the first
place if he didn't want to follow their rules. Don't get me wrong, I
don't
like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the
docs and
had no intention of following them.


I've read of cases where prospective purchasers have been denied the
opportunity to read the HOA rules before purchasing the property and
thus being bound by them: "This is proprietary information."

Perce

Prospective purchasers must, by law, be furnished with documents - the
bylaws, rules, etc.. Minutes of board meetings
would not be available to prospective buyer from the association, but
any seller in their
right mind would furnish copies. Unless the assn. is a hell hole and
the seller doesn't want
that disclosure. It would be a very good guage of the issues that
arise, how business
is transacted, etc.

Zootal wrote:
Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to
buying they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by
them. Then all of a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the
regs from the docs are enforced. Please explain why that person
bought in an HOA in the first place if he didn't want to follow
their rules. Don't get me wrong, I don't like HOA's but I sure
wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs and had no
intention of following them.

Just out of curiosity - do you have the right to refuse to sign the
agreement if you buy the house? IOW, can you buy a house in one of
these HOA neighborhoods, but refuse to sign or comply?

Purchase of a home is a contract. Accepting the HOA's rules is part of the
contract. It's all or nothing.

Generally.

A covenant or rules cannot, for example, be enforced against public policy
such as "... buyer agrees to never sell the property to anyone not of the
Caucasian race..."

What's a little weird is agreeing to not only the HOA rules, but agreeing to
abide by any changes in the rules the HOA makes in the future.

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 12/17/08 06:02 pm Sanity wrote:

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then
all of a
sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs are
enforced. Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the first
place if he didn't want to follow their rules. Don't get me wrong, I
don't
like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs
and
had no intention of following them.

I've read of cases where prospective purchasers have been denied the
opportunity to read the HOA rules before purchasing the property and
thus being bound by them: "This is proprietary information."

Perce


There's only one thing to do in a situation like that: RUN.

nate



--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Sanity wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message
...
On Dec 17, 1:38 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:52:28 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........ my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the
front yard no one should be able to do a thing about it
There are people who don't want anyone around them to upset their little
world with anything different than what their narrow mind
finds acceptable. I wouldn't be shocked if this case is appealed.
This fires a shot across the bow of every HOA in Florida.

BTW truck restrictions are not that rare around here. In Cape Coral
you can't have a truck in your driveway by city ordinance.

Wonder what kind of stroke the HOA would have were one to buy a
junker car, chop the top back off and remove the trunk lid, viola! a
Pickup but the registration will show it is a car.

Harry K

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to
buying they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them.
Then all of a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs
from the docs are enforced. Please explain why that person bought in
an HOA in the first place if he didn't want to follow their rules.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one
if I disagreed with the docs and had no intention of following them.

I believe in the case that hit fark.com recently (I assume that that is
what this thread is about) the home moaner actually did check out the
requirements before buying, but the ones being enforced are not the same
ones given to him to review pre-purchase. I think that he does have a
case if the facts are as represented in the article I read.

Oh, and HOA's suck.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel


He only has a case if the docs and bylaws were not presented to him. And I
guaranty he signed that he received and reviewed them before closing.

"Zootal" wrote in message
...
Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then all
of a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs
are enforced. Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the
first place if he didn't want to follow their rules. Don't get me wrong,
I don't like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the
docs and had no intention of following them.


Just out of curiosity - do you have the right to refuse to sign the
agreement if you buy the house? IOW, can you buy a house in one of these
HOA neighborhoods, but refuse to sign or comply?


Nope. The main provision in buying is that you read and agree to follow the
docs and bylaws. Otherwise, why would they have them?

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Zootal wrote:
Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to
buying they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by
them. Then all of a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the
regs from the docs are enforced. Please explain why that person
bought in an HOA in the first place if he didn't want to follow
their rules. Don't get me wrong, I don't like HOA's but I sure
wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs and had no
intention of following them.

Just out of curiosity - do you have the right to refuse to sign the
agreement if you buy the house? IOW, can you buy a house in one of
these HOA neighborhoods, but refuse to sign or comply?

Purchase of a home is a contract. Accepting the HOA's rules is part of the
contract. It's all or nothing.

Generally.

A covenant or rules cannot, for example, be enforced against public policy
such as "... buyer agrees to never sell the property to anyone not of the
Caucasian race..."

What's a little weird is agreeing to not only the HOA rules, but agreeing
to abide by any changes in the rules the HOA makes in the future.

That's because future rules are voted on by the membership and approved by a
majority vote.

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
On 12/17/08 06:02 pm Sanity wrote:

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then all
of a
sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs are
enforced. Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the first
place if he didn't want to follow their rules. Don't get me wrong, I
don't
like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs
and
had no intention of following them.

I've read of cases where prospective purchasers have been denied the
opportunity to read the HOA rules before purchasing the property and thus
being bound by them: "This is proprietary information."

Perce


You'd have to prove that to me and everyone here. It's an illegal act and
any idiot that would sign without reading and agreeing to them is exactly
that, an idiot.

On Wed 17 Dec 2008 06:42:34a, HeyBub told us...

"[FLORIDA] The board of directors representing The Eagles, a deed
restricted community in Odessa, was trying to keep A.J. Vizzi from
parking his Ford pickup truck in his home's driveway. HOA rules state
all trucks must be parked in a garage."

Judge renders declaratory judgment in favor of truck owner, says HOA is
insane and must pay about $100,000 in legal fees. Take drug test.

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/most...96159&provider
=top

I see nothing wrong with buying a home in a deed restricted community.
OTOH, buying into such a community is, as with many things, "buyer beware".
If the covenants and by-laws were provided to the buyer prior to purchase,
then it should have been clear to the buyer from the start what was
permitted and what was not. AFAIC, the HOA had every right to enforce
their rules if the homeowner had an opportunity to learn what they were
before they purchased the property. Homeowners who want to flaunt the
rules don't belong there.

To the other extreme, there are unregulated communities where yards are
filled with crap, junk cars/trucks/trailers, homes are in disrepair, and
the general tone of the neighborhood is unsavory. In many such
communities, flagrant violations of city and county code are grossly
overlooked by authorities. There is no recourse short of taking flight.

I have lived in both settings and I'm currently living in the latter. If I
were able to, I would happily and immediately move into a restricted
community with a well-organized HOA.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Wednesday, 12(XII)/17(XVII)/08(MMVIII)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Christmas Day
1wks 6hrs 6mins
************************************************** **********************
How come there's only one Monopolies Commission?
************************************************** **********************

"Sanity" wrote in
:


Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to
buying they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them.
Then all of a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs
from the docs are enforced. Please explain why that person bought in
an HOA in the first place if he didn't want to follow their rules.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one
if I disagreed with the docs and had no intention of following them.




many people must not READ the HOA docs.
On the news last night was a report about how a local Orlando-area HOA is
banning sales or rentals to unmarried couples or single people.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:02:41 -0500, "Sanity" wrote:



Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then all of a

That's not always the case. In my case, I came from another state I
had no clue there even was an HOA until the closing, and it was either
the middle or the end of that. I didn't see the docs at that time, and
I don't think anyone in this n'hood has ever signed a statement to
abide by them. I don't think anyone in Maryland signs a statement to
abide by the rules, and some or many of my neighbors have completed
the closing and moved into the house before they see a copy of
anything (Articles of Incorporation, by-laws, and I think one other)

Actually I was pleased to see the papers, and I agree with everything,
or almost everything in the papers I got. These are townhouses and it
protects me from obnoxious neighbors. I suspect the typical rules for
free-standing houses are different, and I suspect if I saw a typical
set of them, I'd like them too.

Although some people might not. But even if one does know and
approve of the rules, the rules are often changed later by stupid or
excessively selfish or dishonest boards, or even a couple members of
the board. Or rules are imposed by a "Architecture committee" that
might only have one person on it if no one else voluteers, of if they
do but the chairman doesn't bother to call them under after he has
made the rules he wants.

There are many ways to screw over one's neighbors using the HOA rules,
some of which are inevitably judgment calls, and it's very hard to
show that personal malice was a motive, as it often is. Or at the very
list, "I like to do things my way, and I'm going to make sure you do
things my way too". The written documents rarely go into much detail,
so there is plenty of room for abuse.

In my case, the current pres of the HOA is a liar, a cheat, and a
thief, but no one wants the job but she. She does it for the
emotional satisfaction of getting her way and pushing people around,
and slightly for the graft she gets. Fortunately for me, her bad
traits have only caused me slight inconvenience, until perhaps these
past 10 months, and then only because an unreasonable neighbor moved
next door to me. But she's caused lots of other small and big
problems for others. Details on request.

But absolutely, I would say that 23 or 24 of my 25 years here were
good, and the HOA rules helped them a great deal to be that way,
rather than hindered them.

In theory there's something positive to be said for keeping some
amount of goverment almost as close to oneself as possible, and not
having the county government make one set of rules for everyone in the
county. Details on request.


As to why one would buy in such a place, surely that was a rhetorical
question. There are a dozen major factors to consider when buying a
house and this is only one of them. The usual way to avoid a problem
while still having the good things one wants is to spend more money,
and not everyone has more money. There is a constant theme in many
newsgroups that people are at fault when they don't just spend more
money to avoid problems.




sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs are
enforced. Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the first
place if he didn't want to follow their rules. Don't get me wrong, I don't
like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs and
had no intention of following them.

"Sanity" wrote in
:


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Zootal wrote:
Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to
buying they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by
them. Then all of a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of
the regs from the docs are enforced. Please explain why that
person bought in an HOA in the first place if he didn't want to
follow their rules. Don't get me wrong, I don't like HOA's but I
sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs and had no
intention of following them.

Just out of curiosity - do you have the right to refuse to sign the
agreement if you buy the house? IOW, can you buy a house in one of
these HOA neighborhoods, but refuse to sign or comply?

Purchase of a home is a contract. Accepting the HOA's rules is part
of the contract. It's all or nothing.

Generally.

A covenant or rules cannot, for example, be enforced against public
policy such as "... buyer agrees to never sell the property to anyone
not of the Caucasian race..."

What's a little weird is agreeing to not only the HOA rules, but
agreeing to abide by any changes in the rules the HOA makes in the
future.

That's because future rules are voted on by the membership and
approved by a majority vote.




Ah,50% plus one rules the HOA.

or is a supermajority required?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:40:23 -0500, "Sanity" wrote:


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Sanity wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message
...
On Dec 17, 1:38 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:52:28 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........ my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the
front yard no one should be able to do a thing about it
There are people who don't want anyone around them to upset their little
world with anything different than what their narrow mind
finds acceptable. I wouldn't be shocked if this case is appealed.
This fires a shot across the bow of every HOA in Florida.

BTW truck restrictions are not that rare around here. In Cape Coral
you can't have a truck in your driveway by city ordinance.

Wonder what kind of stroke the HOA would have were one to buy a
junker car, chop the top back off and remove the trunk lid, viola! a
Pickup but the registration will show it is a car.

Harry K

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to
buying they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them.
Then all of a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs
from the docs are enforced. Please explain why that person bought in
an HOA in the first place if he didn't want to follow their rules.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one
if I disagreed with the docs and had no intention of following them.

I believe in the case that hit fark.com recently (I assume that that is
what this thread is about) the home moaner actually did check out the
requirements before buying, but the ones being enforced are not the same
ones given to him to review pre-purchase. I think that he does have a
case if the facts are as represented in the article I read.

Oh, and HOA's suck.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel


He only has a case if the docs and bylaws were not presented to him. And I
guaranty he signed that he received and reviewed them before closing.

Do you know the laws in Florida? Do you think that all laws are
obeyed precisely everywhere all the time?

You call yourself Sanity, for gosh sakes.

It's very risky to guaranty things when you don't know all the facts.

Don't imagine that the rules in your state are the same rules
everywhere.

The title company will not close the transaction unless the new owner signs
off on the CC&R's. The bank will not lend on the property unless the buyer
signs compliance with the CC& R's and By-Laws of the HOA.

CC&R's are voluntary agreements, intended to keep up property values. Works
very well, too. Nobody is forced to buy into a HO administered tract. Keeps
out a lot of trucks which spell "low income" and "blue collar" and
"rednecks" and cheap housing.

Who wants to live in a neighborhood were people cannot afford to drive
passenger cars? :-)
--

Walter

wrote in message
...
On Dec 17, 8:42?am, "HeyBub" wrote:
"[FLORIDA] The board of directors representing The Eagles, a deed
restricted
community in Odessa, was trying to keep A.J. Vizzi from parking his Ford
pickup truck in his home's driveway. HOA rules state all trucks must be
parked in a garage."

Judge renders declaratory judgment in favor of truck owner, says HOA is
insane and must pay about $100,000 in legal fees. Take drug test.

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/most...yid=96159&prov...

why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........

my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the front yard no one
should be able to do a thing about it

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:59:03 -0500, Norminn
wrote:


Just out of curiosity - do you have the right to refuse to sign the
agreement if you buy the house? IOW, can you buy a house in one of these HOA
neighborhoods, but refuse to sign or comply?

Deed restricted........rules go with the land. There is a way to
dissolve condo. associations in Florida,
so probably also for HOA's.

In Maryland every development of more than x houses has to have an
HOA, although it doesn't have to collect dues or have meetings.

Don't know but I think that is largely to keep in force one important
part, which is that if a fire destroys a house or owners neglect it
sufficiently, and the owner wants to walk away, after following a few
rules, the HOA can make repairs to the home, can borrow money to make
the repairs (in normal economic times), and keep a lien on the house
to get the money back. And can foreclose on the lien and sell the
house to get the money back. I think the purpose of this is to
prevent one and then several houses in disrepair turning a
neighborhood into a "slum". No matter how expensive the houses, a
burened out shell is going to run down house values.

Different statutes. For condo, I believe
it requires assent by all of the
unit owners.

That would certainly be fair. But such laws vary by state. I don't
think there even is a Uniform HOA law, or Condo Law, or Co-op Law.

In Maryland Condo law is rather detailed, but the HOA law is quite
short and for everything not specified there, standard corporate law
applies.

wrote in message
news
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:52:28 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........

my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the front yard no one
should be able to do a thing about it

There are people who don't want anyone around them to upset their
little world with anything different than what their narrow mind finds
acceptable.
I wouldn't be shocked if this case is appealed. This fires a shot
across the bow of every HOA in Florida.

Who's going to pay the lawyer bills this time? That would be real smart.

"Sanity" wrote in message
...

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Zootal wrote:
Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to
buying they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by
them. Then all of a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the
regs from the docs are enforced. Please explain why that person
bought in an HOA in the first place if he didn't want to follow
their rules. Don't get me wrong, I don't like HOA's but I sure
wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs and had no
intention of following them.

Just out of curiosity - do you have the right to refuse to sign the
agreement if you buy the house? IOW, can you buy a house in one of
these HOA neighborhoods, but refuse to sign or comply?

Purchase of a home is a contract. Accepting the HOA's rules is part of the
contract. It's all or nothing.

Generally.

A covenant or rules cannot, for example, be enforced against public policy
such as "... buyer agrees to never sell the property to anyone not of the
Caucasian race..."

What's a little weird is agreeing to not only the HOA rules, but agreeing to
abide by any changes in the rules the HOA makes in the future.

That's because future rules are voted on by the membership and approved by a
majority vote.


Thanks, but no thanks.

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
On 12/17/08 06:02 pm Sanity wrote:

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then all of a
sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs are
enforced. Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the first
place if he didn't want to follow their rules. Don't get me wrong, I don't
like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs and
had no intention of following them.

I've read of cases where prospective purchasers have been denied the
opportunity to read the HOA rules before purchasing the property and thus
being bound by them: "This is proprietary information."

That would give them a good case to void the rules.

"Walter R." wrote in message
...
The title company will not close the transaction unless the new owner signs
off on the CC&R's. The bank will not lend on the property unless the buyer
signs compliance with the CC& R's and By-Laws of the HOA.

CC&R's are voluntary agreements, intended to keep up property values. Works
very well, too. Nobody is forced to buy into a HO administered tract. Keeps
out a lot of trucks which spell "low income" and "blue collar" and "rednecks"
and cheap housing.

Who wants to live in a neighborhood were people cannot afford to drive
passenger cars? :-)

Who wants to live in a neighborhood where you have to?

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in
:


Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to
buying they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them.
Then all of a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs
from the docs are enforced. Please explain why that person bought in
an HOA in the first place if he didn't want to follow their rules.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one
if I disagreed with the docs and had no intention of following them.




many people must not READ the HOA docs.
On the news last night was a report about how a local Orlando-area HOA is
banning sales or rentals to unmarried couples or single people.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net


If you don't read the docs before purchase and you sign that you read them,
you deserve everything you get. And I'd like to see the article you are
referring to.

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
"Sanity" wrote in
:


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Zootal wrote:
Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to
buying they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by
them. Then all of a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of
the regs from the docs are enforced. Please explain why that
person bought in an HOA in the first place if he didn't want to
follow their rules. Don't get me wrong, I don't like HOA's but I
sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs and had no
intention of following them.

Just out of curiosity - do you have the right to refuse to sign the
agreement if you buy the house? IOW, can you buy a house in one of
these HOA neighborhoods, but refuse to sign or comply?

Purchase of a home is a contract. Accepting the HOA's rules is part
of the contract. It's all or nothing.

Generally.

A covenant or rules cannot, for example, be enforced against public
policy such as "... buyer agrees to never sell the property to anyone
not of the Caucasian race..."

What's a little weird is agreeing to not only the HOA rules, but
agreeing to abide by any changes in the rules the HOA makes in the
future.

That's because future rules are voted on by the membership and
approved by a majority vote.




Ah,50% plus one rules the HOA.

or is a supermajority required?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Depends on the docs. Some are simple majority and some are 75%. But
doesn't the majority always supposed to rule?

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:55:10 -0800, "Zootal"
wrote:


"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
On 12/17/08 06:02 pm Sanity wrote:

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then all
of a
sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs are
enforced. Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the first
place if he didn't want to follow their rules. Don't get me wrong, I
don't
like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs
and
had no intention of following them.

I've read of cases where prospective purchasers have been denied the
opportunity to read the HOA rules before purchasing the property and thus
being bound by them: "This is proprietary information."

Perce


Huh..I would think that you wouldn't need that sharp of a lawyer to get out
of that one.

Not so sure. If the buyer knew there were HOA rules and he bought the
house without reading them, he may have waived his right to read them
in advance. The remedy would have been to insist that the seller
provide the docs in advance, to give him time to read them. Didn't
the seller have a copy? If for some reason the seller didn't have a
copy, couldn't he get a copy from a neighbor? If not, what's the
seller going to do? Maybe try to sell the house to someone else. But
let's say he already signed the contract with the first guy?

If there are 100 members of the HOA, why should 99 of them forfeit
their rights under the HOA docs because one seller, or the HOA board,
refused to show the docs to a buyer. I don't think a court would allow
that.

This is not just about a contract between the seller and the buyer.
The seller rarely even cares anymore. But every member of the HOA is
a party to this contract.

Maybe the buyer could argue fraud, and get the sale of the house
reversed. Then the other members of the HOA would not suffer. But
to find fraud the misrepresentation has to be substantial, more than
trivial. Even then, this is not a case where the buyer didn't know
there was an HOA. He knew and he didn't have to buy. He just didn't
know what they contained. I think it would be a very hard case to
win.

BAck when I was eligible for the draft, a friend had some serious
physical problems that wouldn't be visible during the quick physical
that the Selective Service gave potential draftees. The law provided
for a Medical Interview, which was a one-to-one meeting with a doctor
where the doc would mostly read the medical record, and maybe -- i
odn't know -- run tests of his own, to see if the person was still
draftable (The army doesn't want people who are already sick.) And the
courts held that if one requested the interview but couldn't get one,
and one showed up at the regular army physical anyway, he had waived
his right to the Medical Interview. My friend found out that the
doctor doing them in his city had resigned. He didn't want to go to
Viet Nam but he took a chance and went to the army physical anyhow,
and showed the doctor there the medical history, and was deferred. But
by showing up, he had effectively waived his right to the Med
Interview.

Unless they signed a statement agreeing to follow the rules
sight unseen.

You don't have to sign anything, not the HOA rules nor an agreement to
follow the rules sight unseen for them to be binding. They are
binding in many states, maybe all but one, whether you've signed
anything at all as long as you own the property they apply to.

Compare it with zoning laws. You might want to run a beauty salon in
your basement, or an insurance agency in your den, or an antique store
in the whole first floor, but if the property is not zoned for that
you can't do it legally. Whether you agreed to the zoning laws or
not.

Certain HOA rules can probably be ignored if no one complains, but
others someone is likely to complain and unlike zoning, which allows
for individual variances, HOA, condo, and co-op law likely don't.

For example, the architecture committee or the board here is supposed
to review all the plans for fences. Fences have to made of real wood
and not painted. But I noticed recently that a house at the far
corner of the n'hood from me has a plastic fence. I guess no one
objected.

In another case, fences were built around the back yards of two
houses, one from the end of one building and the other from the facing
end of the next building. They normally would have left 6? feet in
the middle, which is the public easement, for everyone in the n'hood
to use, especially people who want to go around to the back of their
houses without going through the house, like to take a lawn mower back
there, or to deliver a piano. Instead, one of the two neighbors said,
People can go through my side gate, my yard, and the back gate, and
I'll never lock either gate. And that's good enough, but someday the
house will be sold, and sold again, and the new owner won't know or
won't want to obey. And new people will move in next door who won't
want to go 6 houses in the other direction. He'll lock the gates, and
will be outraged when someone tells him he can't. Maybe his home was
broken into through a rear window at his previous location, and it's
important to him to lock the gates. Who will pay to have part of the
fence moved, parts of both fencs?


HOAs are evil. I personally would *never* buy a house in a neighborhood with
an HOA. But I guess some people like them, so what-evah....

Harry K wrote in news:cfc62494-e6e5-4f8c-abe5-
:

On Dec 17, 1:38*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:52:28 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........

my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the front yard no one
should be able to do a thing about it

There are people who don't want anyone around them to upset their
little world with anything different than what their narrow mind finds
acceptable.
I wouldn't be shocked if this case is appealed. This fires a shot
across the bow of every HOA in Florida.

BTW truck restrictions are not that rare around here. In Cape Coral
you can't have a truck in your driveway by city ordinance.

Wonder what kind of stroke the HOA would have were one to buy a junker
car, chop the top back off and remove the trunk lid, viola! a Pickup
but the registration will show it is a car.

Harry K

Hmmm, how about vans? The Red Green Possum van would be an eyecatcher.
Here it is making light work of making apple sauce:

http://www.treehugger.com/picture-re...applesauce.jpg

This should be OK. It is a car.

http://allcarsreview.com/wp-content/.../01/151255.jpg

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:40:23 -0500, "Sanity" wrote:


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Sanity wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message
...
On Dec 17, 1:38 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:52:28 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........ my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the
front yard no one should be able to do a thing about it
There are people who don't want anyone around them to upset their
little
world with anything different than what their narrow mind
finds acceptable. I wouldn't be shocked if this case is appealed.
This fires a shot across the bow of every HOA in Florida.

BTW truck restrictions are not that rare around here. In Cape Coral
you can't have a truck in your driveway by city ordinance.

Wonder what kind of stroke the HOA would have were one to buy a
junker car, chop the top back off and remove the trunk lid, viola! a
Pickup but the registration will show it is a car.

Harry K

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to
buying they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them.
Then all of a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs
from the docs are enforced. Please explain why that person bought in
an HOA in the first place if he didn't want to follow their rules.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one
if I disagreed with the docs and had no intention of following them.

I believe in the case that hit fark.com recently (I assume that that is
what this thread is about) the home moaner actually did check out the
requirements before buying, but the ones being enforced are not the same
ones given to him to review pre-purchase. I think that he does have a
case if the facts are as represented in the article I read.

Oh, and HOA's suck.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel


He only has a case if the docs and bylaws were not presented to him. And I
guaranty he signed that he received and reviewed them before closing.

Do you know the laws in Florida? Do you think that all laws are
obeyed precisely everywhere all the time?

You call yourself Sanity, for gosh sakes.

It's very risky to guaranty things when you don't know all the facts.

Don't imagine that the rules in your state are the same rules
everywhere.

I've lived in Florida and New York and North Carolina. If he went to
closing without a lawyer, which many people do, they he deserves whatever he
gets. A lawyer would have made sure he got the docs before he signed off to
them. In an HOA I lived in Florida, two weeks prior to closing and
interview was held with the prospective buyer. At that time it was ensured
that he received a copy of the docs and was told to read them and call if
there were any questions. If the buyer didn't read them and signed in the
blind, then he's the idiot.

"Bob F" wrote in message
...

"Walter R." wrote in message
...
The title company will not close the transaction unless the new owner
signs off on the CC&R's. The bank will not lend on the property unless
the buyer signs compliance with the CC& R's and By-Laws of the HOA.

CC&R's are voluntary agreements, intended to keep up property values.
Works very well, too. Nobody is forced to buy into a HO administered
tract. Keeps out a lot of trucks which spell "low income" and "blue
collar" and "rednecks" and cheap housing.

Who wants to live in a neighborhood were people cannot afford to drive
passenger cars? :-)

Who wants to live in a neighborhood where you have to?


And who wants to live in a home where the next door neighbor has an RV on
the lawn blocking the view of the purple house next to him with the five
foot weeks in the front lawn? To each his own. If you want to live that way,
don't buy in an HOA. But anyone that tells you they were not given the docs
in advance is probably lying to you. Even at a closing you'd be asked if you
were given a copy of the docs in advance, did your read and approve them.

On Dec 17, 5:02*pm, "Sanity" wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message

...
On Dec 17, 1:38 pm, wrote:





On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:52:28 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........

my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the front yard no one
should be able to do a thing about it

There are people who don't want anyone around them to upset their
little world with anything different than what their narrow mind finds
acceptable.
I wouldn't be shocked if this case is appealed. This fires a shot
across the bow of every HOA in Florida.

BTW truck restrictions are not that rare around here. In Cape Coral
you can't have a truck in your driveway by city ordinance.

Wonder what kind of stroke the HOA would have were one to buy a junker
car, chop the top back off and remove the trunk lid, viola! a Pickup
but the registration will show it is a car.

Harry K

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. *Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then all of a
sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs are
enforced. *Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the first
place if he didn't want to follow their rules. *Don't get me wrong, I don't
like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs and
had no intention of following them.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A friend of mine bought in a HOA and totally reviewed and approved of
the rules presented at that time. What he didn't approve of was that
those rules were just the start of what has become a never ending
addition of stupid rules. As an example, shortly after he move there
his inlaws came for a visit. (This is a subdivision where the minimum
lot size is two acres and my friends house sits on 4 acres.) He
inlaws came in a $200K motor home and spent two nights. They pulled
totally in the driveway at the back part of the house. The motor home
could only be seen from one side of the house. Two weeks after that he
received a notice from the HOA that they had voted a new rule that
disallowed the parking of a motorhome overnight anywhere within the
subdivision.

A few months after that, he pulled the fuselage of a plane he is
building in his 4-car garage out onto the driveway to do a trial
mounting of the wings. He just had it out there for Saturday and
Sunday before putting everything back inside his garage. A few days
after that, he received notice that the board had again imposed a new
rule against building an airplane in his garage. That is only a
couple of the rules that have been implemented since he bought his
home.

On Dec 17, 5:43*pm, "Zootal" wrote:
Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. *Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then all of
a sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs are
enforced. *Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the first
place if he didn't want to follow their rules. *Don't get me wrong, I
don't like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the
docs and had no intention of following them.

Just out of curiosity - do you have the right to refuse to sign the
agreement if you buy the house? IOW, can you buy a house in one of these HOA
neighborhoods, but refuse to sign or comply?

NOPE!

SteveB wrote:

Nevada has such a law.

Now, a new subdivision or condo bunch may not be built without the builder
forming a HOA, and then turning it over to members.

Meh? Did you mean that in the whole state of Nevada, a developer HAS to
form a HOA? Or was that referring to the previous paragraph?

(sounds like a good argument for buying your own lot and hiring your own
contractor)

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

wrote in message
news
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:52:28 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........

my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the front yard no one
should be able to do a thing about it

There are people who don't want anyone around them to upset their
little world with anything different than what their narrow mind finds
acceptable.
I wouldn't be shocked if this case is appealed. This fires a shot
across the bow of every HOA in Florida.

BTW truck restrictions are not that rare around here. In Cape Coral
you can't have a truck in your driveway by city ordinance.

Ah, you are talking about a municipality. The HOA is a totally different
beast.

Anybody in an HOA in Florida who is not familiar with the state statutes
regarding their type of HOA and in particular FL 617, which deals with
corporations not for profit, probably deserves what they get.

And that goes double for anyone who gets on the board.

Been there, done that,

Charlie

wrote in message
news
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:52:28 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

why anyone buys into deed restricted communities leaves me at a
loss........

my home means if I want a purple flamingo in the front yard no one
should be able to do a thing about it

There are people who don't want anyone around them to upset their
little world with anything different than what their narrow mind finds
acceptable.
I wouldn't be shocked if this case is appealed. This fires a shot
across the bow of every HOA in Florida.

BTW truck restrictions are not that rare around here. In Cape Coral
you can't have a truck in your driveway by city ordinance.