On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:55:10 -0800, "Zootal"
wrote:


"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
On 12/17/08 06:02 pm Sanity wrote:

Explain something to me. Someone buys a home in an HOA. Prior to buying
they are given the docs and sign a statement to abide by them. Then all
of a
sudden they scream, kick and cry when one of the regs from the docs are
enforced. Please explain why that person bought in an HOA in the first
place if he didn't want to follow their rules. Don't get me wrong, I
don't
like HOA's but I sure wouldn't buy in one if I disagreed with the docs
and
had no intention of following them.

I've read of cases where prospective purchasers have been denied the
opportunity to read the HOA rules before purchasing the property and thus
being bound by them: "This is proprietary information."

Perce


Huh..I would think that you wouldn't need that sharp of a lawyer to get out
of that one.

Not so sure. If the buyer knew there were HOA rules and he bought the
house without reading them, he may have waived his right to read them
in advance. The remedy would have been to insist that the seller
provide the docs in advance, to give him time to read them. Didn't
the seller have a copy? If for some reason the seller didn't have a
copy, couldn't he get a copy from a neighbor? If not, what's the
seller going to do? Maybe try to sell the house to someone else. But
let's say he already signed the contract with the first guy?

If there are 100 members of the HOA, why should 99 of them forfeit
their rights under the HOA docs because one seller, or the HOA board,
refused to show the docs to a buyer. I don't think a court would allow
that.

This is not just about a contract between the seller and the buyer.
The seller rarely even cares anymore. But every member of the HOA is
a party to this contract.

Maybe the buyer could argue fraud, and get the sale of the house
reversed. Then the other members of the HOA would not suffer. But
to find fraud the misrepresentation has to be substantial, more than
trivial. Even then, this is not a case where the buyer didn't know
there was an HOA. He knew and he didn't have to buy. He just didn't
know what they contained. I think it would be a very hard case to
win.

BAck when I was eligible for the draft, a friend had some serious
physical problems that wouldn't be visible during the quick physical
that the Selective Service gave potential draftees. The law provided
for a Medical Interview, which was a one-to-one meeting with a doctor
where the doc would mostly read the medical record, and maybe -- i
odn't know -- run tests of his own, to see if the person was still
draftable (The army doesn't want people who are already sick.) And the
courts held that if one requested the interview but couldn't get one,
and one showed up at the regular army physical anyway, he had waived
his right to the Medical Interview. My friend found out that the
doctor doing them in his city had resigned. He didn't want to go to
Viet Nam but he took a chance and went to the army physical anyhow,
and showed the doctor there the medical history, and was deferred. But
by showing up, he had effectively waived his right to the Med
Interview.

Unless they signed a statement agreeing to follow the rules
sight unseen.

You don't have to sign anything, not the HOA rules nor an agreement to
follow the rules sight unseen for them to be binding. They are
binding in many states, maybe all but one, whether you've signed
anything at all as long as you own the property they apply to.

Compare it with zoning laws. You might want to run a beauty salon in
your basement, or an insurance agency in your den, or an antique store
in the whole first floor, but if the property is not zoned for that
you can't do it legally. Whether you agreed to the zoning laws or
not.

Certain HOA rules can probably be ignored if no one complains, but
others someone is likely to complain and unlike zoning, which allows
for individual variances, HOA, condo, and co-op law likely don't.

For example, the architecture committee or the board here is supposed
to review all the plans for fences. Fences have to made of real wood
and not painted. But I noticed recently that a house at the far
corner of the n'hood from me has a plastic fence. I guess no one
objected.

In another case, fences were built around the back yards of two
houses, one from the end of one building and the other from the facing
end of the next building. They normally would have left 6? feet in
the middle, which is the public easement, for everyone in the n'hood
to use, especially people who want to go around to the back of their
houses without going through the house, like to take a lawn mower back
there, or to deliver a piano. Instead, one of the two neighbors said,
People can go through my side gate, my yard, and the back gate, and
I'll never lock either gate. And that's good enough, but someday the
house will be sold, and sold again, and the new owner won't know or
won't want to obey. And new people will move in next door who won't
want to go 6 houses in the other direction. He'll lock the gates, and
will be outraged when someone tells him he can't. Maybe his home was
broken into through a rear window at his previous location, and it's
important to him to lock the gates. Who will pay to have part of the
fence moved, parts of both fencs?


HOAs are evil. I personally would *never* buy a house in a neighborhood with
an HOA. But I guess some people like them, so what-evah....