I'm helping an elderly couple with some troublesome windows in their
home. The windows are sliders (one slider on each end) separated by a
48" fixed window. The windows are old and the latches don't work well
and the seals are poor, therefore they leak air badly. I have done
some weatherstripping which is an improvemetn but what I am looking
for now is a device that can be inserted between the two sliders and
exert some pressure on each side to force them to close tightly
against the far edge. I'd like something that has an over-center type
action or a screw adjustment to apply the pressure since neither
occupant can handle much force. Before I go off and try to fabricate
something for them can anyone suggest a commerical product that could
accomplish what I am trying to do? If further explanantion is needed
I'll gladly respond with more details

I'd also like any ideas on what I could use to better seal the edge of
the slider that mates to the end of the fixed window (the far side is
not so bad to deal with.) The frames are metal (these are old windows)
so there is only a very small surface to apply any weatherstrip and
the gap is very small (but large enough to be a source of air leaks.)

Thanks for any ideas!
John Keith

On Apr 24, 12:49 am, John Keith wrote:
I'm helping an elderly couple with some troublesome windows in their
home. The windows are sliders (one slider on each end) separated by a
48" fixed window. The windows are old and the latches don't work well
and the seals are poor, therefore they leak air badly. I have done
some weatherstripping which is an improvemetn but what I am looking
for now is a device that can be inserted between the two sliders and
exert some pressure on each side to force them to close tightly
against the far edge. I'd like something that has an over-center type
action or a screw adjustment to apply the pressure since neither
occupant can handle much force. Before I go off and try to fabricate
something for them can anyone suggest a commerical product that could
accomplish what I am trying to do? If further explanantion is needed
I'll gladly respond with more details

I'd also like any ideas on what I could use to better seal the edge of
the slider that mates to the end of the fixed window (the far side is
not so bad to deal with.) The frames are metal (these are old windows)
so there is only a very small surface to apply any weatherstrip and
the gap is very small (but large enough to be a source of air leaks.)

Thanks for any ideas!
John Keith


Thanks to your for helping folk in need. You can buy an ordinary bar
clamps or other types of clamps which are reversible. That way you
can put the clamp between the window and the frame and slowly screw it
closed with the clamp. Bar clamps are the least expensive but you
should have two since that will allow you to close the window evenly.
Here are links to bar clamps:

http://www.7corners.com/7c_store/sho...TID=1018951621

A quick clamp is a bit nicer and is also reversible. Link:

http://www.7corners.com/7c_store/sho...D=10189516 21

Concerning air leaks, where regular weatherstrip will not work you
can use a strip of old carpet perhaps folded and reversed and maybe
covered with duct tape. Just close the windows tightly against the
carpet with your clamps. Since the gap is small you can may be able
to use just plain caulk or maybe foam rod designed for that purpose.

On a really bad windows I will just find a way to somehow get it
closed then cover then caulk it shut. Then I may use either poly
plastic like the 3M stuff or even regular 6 mil poly plastic stapled
in place with cardboard edging. It can be done inside and out.

In bad situations I will sometimes abandon the use of the window
entirely and cut a hunk of one inch foam board to close the window in
and caulk it around the edges. Although it eliminates the use of the
window, it also eliminates or drastically improves the situation with
drafts and heat loss in the window. One inch of the foil backed foam
board is R-7!!

On 23 Apr 2007 23:51:42 -0700, Lawrence
wrote:

Larry,

Thank you for your quick reply.

As usual your reply prompts me to supply some additional info.

On a really bad windows I will just find a way to somehow get it
closed then cover then caulk it shut.

Caulking the windows shut would be a great solution except that they
need to remain operational so that when they have some one come to
clean the outside of the windows they can reach them through the open
window.

The idea of the bar clamp is interesting and I've not seen reversible
clamps before but I'm not sure the couple could operate them (the
husband is physically disabled.) But more importantly I'm not sure
they would meet the wife's request for something that looks
"pleasing". Right now I have a 1x2 of the approximate correct length
+1/4" wedged in place to push against the two moveable panes and she
says that would look OK if they were white. I'm not sure either of
these people could routinely insert even these "wedges" so I'm trying
to think of something that would insert much easier, like an
over-center type of pressure expander.

Finally, I understand your comment about two clamps, one high and one
low but again I think due to the physical limitations of teh couple
installing the high one would be a challenge. The one wedge I have in
the middle right now for a test seems to be a good compromise, if I
can solve the other problems (ease of install and attractive.)

I may need to describe the details of the interface better also
between the slider and the fixed pane to get some good commetns about
weatherstripping. I'll try to do that later today when I have more
time.


John Keith

On Apr 24, 12:49 am, John Keith wrote:

snip

The frames are metal (these are old windows)
so there is only a very small surface to apply any weatherstrip and
the gap is very small (but large enough to be a source of air leaks.)

With metal frames and probably single pane glass you're fighting a
losing battle to save energy. IMO the people would be far better off
with a modern window that doesn't leak, doesn't transmit as much
summer heat, doesn't lose all that heat in winter and can be opened
now and then to enjoy a nice breeze. Factor in an energy credit on the
replacement cost and the choice is easy. HTH

Joe

how about a twist to adjust shower curtain rod? Dunno if you'll find one
that short however.

--
Steve Barker




"John Keith" wrote in message
...
I'm helping an elderly couple with some troublesome windows in their
home. The windows are sliders (one slider on each end) separated by a
48" fixed window. The windows are old and the latches don't work well
and the seals are poor, therefore they leak air badly. I have done
some weatherstripping which is an improvemetn but what I am looking
for now is a device that can be inserted between the two sliders and
exert some pressure on each side to force them to close tightly
against the far edge. I'd like something that has an over-center type
action or a screw adjustment to apply the pressure since neither
occupant can handle much force. Before I go off and try to fabricate
something for them can anyone suggest a commerical product that could
accomplish what I am trying to do? If further explanantion is needed
I'll gladly respond with more details

I'd also like any ideas on what I could use to better seal the edge of
the slider that mates to the end of the fixed window (the far side is
not so bad to deal with.) The frames are metal (these are old windows)
so there is only a very small surface to apply any weatherstrip and
the gap is very small (but large enough to be a source of air leaks.)

Thanks for any ideas!
John Keith

John,
I think perhaps you are addressing symptoms rather than the underlying
problem.

I hazard a guess that the sliding panels ride on some sort of plastic
bushing and that has worn to the point that the window is cocking and
dragging.

Try inspecting the bushings, and if you find them worn, often these can be
obtained from a glass shop.

If the windows are large they even might have little plastic rollers, but
those are probably still available also.


"John Keith" wrote in message
...
On 23 Apr 2007 23:51:42 -0700, Lawrence
wrote:

Larry,

Thank you for your quick reply.

As usual your reply prompts me to supply some additional info.

On a really bad windows I will just find a way to somehow get it
closed then cover then caulk it shut.

Caulking the windows shut would be a great solution except that they
need to remain operational so that when they have some one come to
clean the outside of the windows they can reach them through the open
window.

The idea of the bar clamp is interesting and I've not seen reversible
clamps before but I'm not sure the couple could operate them (the
husband is physically disabled.) But more importantly I'm not sure
they would meet the wife's request for something that looks
"pleasing". Right now I have a 1x2 of the approximate correct length
+1/4" wedged in place to push against the two moveable panes and she
says that would look OK if they were white. I'm not sure either of
these people could routinely insert even these "wedges" so I'm trying
to think of something that would insert much easier, like an
over-center type of pressure expander.

Finally, I understand your comment about two clamps, one high and one
low but again I think due to the physical limitations of teh couple
installing the high one would be a challenge. The one wedge I have in
the middle right now for a test seems to be a good compromise, if I
can solve the other problems (ease of install and attractive.)

I may need to describe the details of the interface better also
between the slider and the fixed pane to get some good commetns about
weatherstripping. I'll try to do that later today when I have more
time.


John Keith

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:11:49 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:

John,
I think perhaps you are addressing symptoms rather than the underlying
problem.

I hazard a guess that the sliding panels ride on some sort of plastic
bushing and that has worn to the point that the window is cocking and
dragging.

Try inspecting the bushings, and if you find them worn, often these can be
obtained from a glass shop.

A bunch of them are broken in my house and I was going to make my own.
Thank you for what is most likely a better suggestion.

Mine are just plastic rectangles with a hole in the middle. They are
held on by one screw at each end of the window and are rounded at the
bottom to slide in the channel.

Some have broken at the hole.

If the windows are large they even might have little plastic rollers, but
those are probably still available also.

On Apr 24, 7:29 am, John Keith wrote:
On 23 Apr 2007 23:51:42 -0700, Lawrence
wrote:

Larry,

Thank you for your quick reply.

As usual your reply prompts me to supply some additional info.

On a really bad windows I will just find a way to somehow get it
closed then cover then caulk it shut.

Caulking the windows shut would be a great solution except that they
need to remain operational so that when they have some one come to
clean the outside of the windows they can reach them through the open
window.

For sure caulking them shut is the last gasp solution only to be used
on windows that are barely usable anyway.

The idea of the bar clamp is interesting and I've not seen reversible
clamps before but I'm not sure the couple could operate them (the
husband is physically disabled.) But more importantly I'm not sure
they would meet the wife's request for something that looks
"pleasing".

I have a good selection of bar clamps, very useful. All bar clamps
are reversible. The clamp screws onto the end of ordinary steel pipe
which is threaded on it's end. It is the same type of pipe used for
water or gas supply, available in 1/2" and 3/4". It is only necessary
to flip the stationary part of the clamp around to face the other way
to make into a spreader. Other styles of clamps also have this
feature.

It is also possible to make a clamp or spreader of any length since
the pipe can be cut to order and the pipes can also be threaded to
each other to make a really long clamp. There are nicer clamps for
woodworking but none as cheap or versatile as the pipe clamps. I only
suggested it as a gentle way to close a problem window. I would not
expect that they remain in place after use. They need not be
"pleasing" if they are in storage. Good luck with all.

On Apr 24, 7:29 am, John Keith wrote:
On 23 Apr 2007 23:51:42 -0700, Lawrence
wrote:

Larry,

Thank you for your quick reply.

As usual your reply prompts me to supply some additional info.

On a really bad windows I will just find a way to somehow get it
closed then cover then caulk it shut.

Caulking the windows shut would be a great solution except that they
need to remain operational so that when they have some one come to
clean the outside of the windows they can reach them through the open
window.

The idea of the bar clamp is interesting and I've not seen reversible
clamps before but I'm not sure the couple could operate them (the
husband is physically disabled.) But more importantly I'm not sure
they would meet the wife's request for something that looks
"pleasing". Right now I have a 1x2 of the approximate correct length
+1/4" wedged in place to push against the two moveable panes and she
says that would look OK if they were white. I'm not sure either of
these people could routinely insert even these "wedges" so I'm trying
to think of something that would insert much easier, like an
over-center type of pressure expander.

Finally, I understand your comment about two clamps, one high and one
low but again I think due to the physical limitations of teh couple
installing the high one would be a challenge. The one wedge I have in
the middle right now for a test seems to be a good compromise, if I
can solve the other problems (ease of install and attractive.)

I may need to describe the details of the interface better also
between the slider and the fixed pane to get some good commetns about
weatherstripping. I'll try to do that later today when I have more
time.

John Keith


Apologies if I have answered twice. For sure caulking it shut is
only suggested as a last gasp solution for a window that is beyond
help.

All bar clamps are reversible as well as some other styles of clamps.
It is only neccessary to unscrew the fixed part from the bar and flip
it around to make it a spreader. Since ordinary steel pipe is use,
the pipe can be cut to any length you wish allowing you to have a
clamp of and exact length. Pipe can also be joined together to make a
very long clamp of any length, in theory.

I only intended it a suggested way to gently close a stubborn window.
I would not expect that it would remain in place. It need not be
"pleasing" if it is in storage. Good luck with all.

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:27:08 -0500, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

how about a twist to adjust shower curtain rod? Dunno if you'll find one
that short however.

I like your creative thinking! It might be possible to cut the rod to
fit. I'll look into that. My immediate concern is whether they would
exert enough force combined with could the homeowner overcome the
force to insert them. But definitely worth further examination.

Thanks!


John Keith

On 24 Apr 2007 07:06:53 -0700, Joe wrote:

With metal frames and probably single pane glass you're fighting a
losing battle to save energy. IMO the people would be far better off
with a modern window that doesn't leak, doesn't transmit as much
summer heat, doesn't lose all that heat in winter and can be opened
now and then to enjoy a nice breeze. Factor in an energy credit on the
replacement cost and the choice is easy. HTH

Joe,

You are correct the windows are single pane. Still closing some air
gaps will make a large difference.

I agree that new replacement windows would be the ultimate solution
and this has been suggested but this would be well out of the budget
for this couple. There are actually three sets of identical windows in
a sun room type of situation and the walls are not stud construction
so there would be some unique issues installing a replacement window.
I would guess the cost would easily reach a couple thousand dollars or
more.

Thank you for your comments.


John Keith

On 24 Apr 2007 13:39:54 -0700, Lawrence
wrote:

It is also possible to make a clamp or spreader of any length since
the pipe can be cut to order and the pipes can also be threaded to
each other to make a really long clamp. There are nicer clamps for
woodworking but none as cheap or versatile as the pipe clamps. I only
suggested it as a gentle way to close a problem window. I would not
expect that they remain in place after use. They need not be
"pleasing" if they are in storage. Good luck with all.


Neat, I had never thought of reversing the parts of a piple clamp to
turn it into a "spreader". Good idea. SO I see two problems with pipe
clamps:

- turning the handle while next to the window would not be possible

- the pipe is heavy and the homeowners could not hold them long enough
to get them clamped into place

But I should look at the clamps that are available these days and see
if they might work. I've not used these (wife thinks I have enough
tools and the current pipe clamps don't need to be replaced.) Don't
these newer clamps have some trigger/rachet mechanism?


John Keith

"John Keith" wrote in message
...
On 24 Apr 2007 07:06:53 -0700, Joe wrote:

With metal frames and probably single pane glass you're fighting a
losing battle to save energy. IMO the people would be far better off
with a modern window that doesn't leak, doesn't transmit as much
summer heat, doesn't lose all that heat in winter and can be opened
now and then to enjoy a nice breeze. Factor in an energy credit on the
replacement cost and the choice is easy. HTH

Joe,

You are correct the windows are single pane. Still closing some air
gaps will make a large difference.

I agree that new replacement windows would be the ultimate solution
and this has been suggested but this would be well out of the budget
for this couple. There are actually three sets of identical windows in
a sun room type of situation and the walls are not stud construction
so there would be some unique issues installing a replacement window.
I would guess the cost would easily reach a couple thousand dollars or
more.

Check with the gas or electric company, whichever they use for heat. Many
towns have government or quasi-government programs to help fixed-income
seniors with repairs like this, and the utility they use should be able to
point you in the right direction. In some cities, IIRC, Habitat for Humanity
also does repair work, and their ReStores can be a real cheap source for
servicable windows from remodels. Know anybody into Scouting? Sometimes
young strong guys going for their Eagle take on things like this for their
community service project. Is there a local Vo-Ed school with a carpentry
program? Sometimes they need small class projects. There are resources out
there, but they take digging.

As a cheap painless interim measure, I'd recommend interior storms make from
that plastic 2-layer stuff used for greenhouses- think clear corrugated
cardboard. Hold it to the wall with velcro tape. Very light, and easy for
even an elderly person to put in place or remove on nice days. Yeah, it
obscures the view, but it does let the light through. 4x8 panels are about
40 bucks, the velcro tape another 20 or so per roll. If velcro seems to
crude, a wood channel at the bottom and a wood turnblock at the top corners
would work almost as well.

aem sends....

On Apr 24, 12:49 am, John Keith wrote:
I'm helping an elderly couple with some troublesome windows in their
home. The windows are sliders (one slider on each end) separated by a
48" fixed window. The windows are old and the latches don't work well
and the seals are poor, therefore they leak air badly. I have done
some weatherstripping which is an improvemetn but what I am looking
for now is a device that can be inserted between the two sliders and
exert some pressure on each side to force them to close tightly
against the far edge. I'd like something that has an over-center type
action or a screw adjustment to apply the pressure since neither
occupant can handle much force. Before I go off and try to fabricate
something for them can anyone suggest a commerical product that could
accomplish what I am trying to do? If further explanantion is needed
I'll gladly respond with more details

I'd also like any ideas on what I could use to better seal the edge of
the slider that mates to the end of the fixed window (the far side is
not so bad to deal with.) The frames are metal (these are old windows)
so there is only a very small surface to apply any weatherstrip and
the gap is very small (but large enough to be a source of air leaks.)

Thanks for any ideas!
John Keith


Since these are very old and inefficient windows why not consider
modern replacements with proper sealing and heating/cooling benefits?
With the energy tax credit and lower utility bills your clients could
be money ahead.

Joe

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:09:06 -0600, John Keith wrote:

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:27:08 -0500, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

how about a twist to adjust shower curtain rod? Dunno if you'll find one
that short however.

I like your creative thinking! It might be possible to cut the rod to
fit. I'll look into that. My immediate concern is whether they would
exert enough force combined with could the homeowner overcome the
force to insert them. But definitely worth further examination.

Thanks!


If the owners are truely as feeble as you seem to be implying,
I think you should get a reversible motor and some threaded rod,
and open and close the window electrically. If they're
able to exert any reasonable amount of force, then
just use a hinged stick like they used to use to lock
baby-gates into doorways. Kind of like this:

www.goedjn.com/sketch/wlatch.gif

The amount of mechanical advantage you get
is the ratio of the amount of the top stick
right of the hinge to the amount left of the hinge.

--Goedjn

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:22:48 -0600, John Keith wrote:

On 24 Apr 2007 13:39:54 -0700, Lawrence
wrote:

It is also possible to make a clamp or spreader of any length since
the pipe can be cut to order and the pipes can also be threaded to
each other to make a really long clamp. There are nicer clamps for
woodworking but none as cheap or versatile as the pipe clamps. I only
suggested it as a gentle way to close a problem window. I would not
expect that they remain in place after use. They need not be
"pleasing" if they are in storage. Good luck with all.


Neat, I had never thought of reversing the parts of a piple clamp to
turn it into a "spreader". Good idea. SO I see two problems with pipe
clamps:

- turning the handle while next to the window would not be possible

Don't know about pipe clamps, but some bar clamps have squeeze handles
that cause them to move.

- the pipe is heavy and the homeowners could not hold them long enough
to get them clamped into place

Again, a flat bar is lighter than a 1 1/2 inch galvanized pipe, and
the rest of the parts are often plastic. Mostly on this I know about
Harbor Freight clamps.

But I should look at the clamps that are available these days and see
if they might work. I've not used these (wife thinks I have enough
tools and the current pipe clamps don't need to be replaced.) Don't
these newer clamps have some trigger/rachet mechanism?

Some. The 18 inch clamp does, that I bought because it was on sale
and cost maybe a dollar, but probably isn't long enough for this
application.

I'm not sure if one could just take flat stock to make a longer clamp
(if they're clever they would have used an unusual size to prevent
this) but they probably sell long enough for your purpose.

I think open windows are great, and closed windows are great when it's
cold out.

John Keith

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:52:58 -0400, mm
wrote:


A bunch of them are broken in my house and I was going to make my own.
Thank you for what is most likely a better suggestion.

Mine are just plastic rectangles with a hole in the middle. They are
held on by one screw at each end of the window and are rounded at the
bottom to slide in the channel.

I forgot. Mine are little but L-shaped. I bought a big piece of
plastic corner molding to cut new ones out of and I just barely got
started. Have to cut to the right width and length and drill one hole
for each.

Still, would be easier to go to a glass store if they have them.

Some have broken at the hole.

According to John Keith :
I'm helping an elderly couple with some troublesome windows in their
home. The windows are sliders (one slider on each end) separated by a
48" fixed window. The windows are old and the latches don't work well
and the seals are poor, therefore they leak air badly. I have done
some weatherstripping which is an improvemetn but what I am looking
for now is a device that can be inserted between the two sliders and
exert some pressure on each side to force them to close tightly
against the far edge. I'd like something that has an over-center type
action or a screw adjustment to apply the pressure since neither
occupant can handle much force. Before I go off and try to fabricate
something for them can anyone suggest a commerical product that could
accomplish what I am trying to do? If further explanantion is needed
I'll gladly respond with more details

It sounds as if you want to rejuvenate the seals (such as they were)
and provide a mechanical assist for closing the windows.

Depending on the geometry, simple slider locks might do the trick. The
ones I'm thinking of are small devices that screw onto the bottom window
frame, that have an "L" shaped nylon handle. When you push the handle,
it pushes a wing of the L against the glass (or sash) and jams the
window hard against one side of the track. Which will help better
seal much of the perimeter, especially if you put a second one on the
top frame.

Something like this device: http://www.allglassparts.com/product/784095899

http://www.allglassparts.com will probably have something you can
use to help seal the windows better, as well as something that can
give a mechanical assist to close them tight. You might even be
able to use something like old fashioned vertical sliding window locks
for tightening the windows.

Sashless sliders often have felt strips glued to the glass. On
aluminum sliders, felt strips locked in grooves.

http://www.allglassparts.com looks very much like a "if we don't
got it, it don't exist" type of place. Spend some time surfing
it, I'm sure you'll find stuff that will do the job.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On Apr 24, 7:29 am, John Keith wrote:

Caulking the windows shut would be a great solution except that they
need to remain operational so that when they have some one come to
clean the outside of the windows they can reach them through the open
window.

I only suggested caulking it shut for a situation where the window is
beyond help and replacement isn't in the budget. If they are
"sliders" then they cross over each other when opened, thur preventing
"cleaning" when opened.

The idea of the bar clamp is interesting and I've not seen reversible
clamps before but I'm not sure the couple could operate them (the
husband is physically disabled.) But more importantly I'm not sure
they would meet the wife's request for something that looks
"pleasing". Right now I have a 1x2 of the approximate correct length
+1/4" wedged in place to push against the two moveable panes and she
says that would look OK if they were white. I'm not sure either of
these people could routinely insert even these "wedges" so I'm trying
to think of something that would insert much easier, like an
over-center type of pressure expander.

All bar clamps are reversible as well as some other designs. The
stationary part of the clamp need merely be flipped around to face the
other way to convert it into a spreader. Since ordinary steel pipe is
used, it can be cut to the exact length you need. They can also be
converted into an extra long clamp by simply coupling the pipe end to
end. Other clamps do not have this feature.

Finally, I understand your comment about two clamps, one high and one
low but again I think due to the physical limitations of teh couple
installing the high one would be a challenge. The one wedge I have in
the middle right now for a test seems to be a good compromise, if I
can solve the other problems (ease of install and attractive.)

I only intended the clamp/spreader as a solution to closing a very
stubborn window. I would not expect that they would remain in place
after use. They need not be "attractive" if they are in storage.

The winner, no doubt.


On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:08:11 -0400, Goedjn wrote:




If the owners are truely as feeble as you seem to be implying,
I think you should get a reversible motor and some threaded rod,
and open and close the window electrically. If they're
able to exert any reasonable amount of force, then
just use a hinged stick like they used to use to lock
baby-gates into doorways. Kind of like this:

www.goedjn.com/sketch/wlatch.gif

The amount of mechanical advantage you get
is the ratio of the amount of the top stick
right of the hinge to the amount left of the hinge.

--Goedjn

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:08:11 -0400, Goedjn wrote:

then
just use a hinged stick like they used to use to lock
baby-gates into doorways. Kind of like this:

www.goedjn.com/sketch/wlatch.gif

That's very close to what I called an over-the-center type latch. This
may well be the best suggestion yet. Thanks.



John Keith

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:04:26 -0000, (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

Something like this device: http://www.allglassparts.com/product/784095899


Interesting site, it is worth some additional surfing.


John Keith

On Apr 24, 7:22 pm, John Keith wrote:
Neat, I had never thought of reversing the parts of a piple clamp to
turn it into a "spreader". Good idea. SO I see two problems with pipe
clamps:

- turning the handle while next to the window would not be possible

That would be true with some styles of clamp but not others. There
are several different styles of clamps many of which would almost
certainly have the clearance to be usable.

One version which I actually own, not only has a low clearance screw
it is also a deep reach or a C-clamp style which gives even more
clearance. Jorgensen "Pony" Deep Reach Pipe Clamp is the name of this
style of clamp that you will find very useful. You supply your own
threaded pipe or if you can find this clamp locally they will also
sell and thread your pipe. There are cheaper prices but this link
should work:

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx...fcode=05INFROO

- the pipe is heavy and the homeowners could not ho ld them long enough
to get them clamped into place

My first reaction is... that I thought that you would be operating the
clamp since you are "helping" them, eh? I assumed that you are the
one who is handy and will own the clamps. Besides that, if these
invalids can't pick up a 12 inch clamp they they may need your help
every time they open and close this window.

But I should look at the clamps that are available these days and see
if they might work. I've not used these (wife thinks I have enough
tools and the current pipe clamps don't need to be replaced.) Don't
these newer clamps have some trigger/rachet mechanism?

The ones you own may be reversible since many are and you were
previously unaware of the feature. Just try removing the fixed part
of the clamp and reverse it. You call the clamps "newer" but they are
nothing of the sort.

Pipe clamps are a well established technology, I assure you. They do
indeed have a mechanism which allows you to position the movable part
of the clamp along the pipe so that if adjusted properly only a turn
or two of the screw may be required to to do the job. If your wifey
won't let you buy any clamps then give the job to her!!

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:01:02 -0600, John Keith wrote:

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:08:11 -0400, Goedjn wrote:

then
just use a hinged stick like they used to use to lock
baby-gates into doorways. Kind of like this:

www.goedjn.com/sketch/wlatch.gif

That's very close to what I called an over-the-center type latch. This
may well be the best suggestion yet. Thanks.

You know if you do this one right, it will both close the window and,
if you put it at the other location, open it. Assuming there is a
handle on the moving part. My windows have full height "handles" at
both sides. Almost any design will be "right" but there might be some
that will be wrong.



John Keith

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:27:08 -0500, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

how about a twist to adjust shower curtain rod? Dunno if you'll find one
that short however.

I checked the shower bars tonight. They come in several lengths, at
least two of which will fit the openig I'm dealing with. The ones I
saw tonight are alittle different that what I've seen before. There
appears to be no "spring" inside the bar that actually compresses,
rather it appears that you screw the inside part to the approximate
span then insert it and give it a littel twist furterh to tighten it.
I'd prefer the spring action but getting one of these is worth a test.


John Keith

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:35:37 -0600, John Keith wrote:

I checked the shower bars tonight.

I've heard of stripper bars and gay bars. What are shower bars?

And what did you do when you were there?



They come in several lengths, at
least two of which will fit the openig I'm dealing with. The ones I
saw tonight are alittle different that what I've seen before. There
appears to be no "spring" inside the bar that actually compresses,
rather it appears that you screw the inside part to the approximate
span then insert it and give it a littel twist furterh to tighten it.
I'd prefer the spring action but getting one of these is worth a test.


John Keith

I think I found the ultimate solution today!

I was thumbing through a material handling catalog today
(www.randmh.com) and saw some cargo handling bars.These are bars made
to span the inside of a trailer to restrain the load from shifting.The
ones in this catalog were for large trailers (89"-104" wide) but a
quick internet search yielded several source of similar cargo bars
made for small pickups and minivans.


John Keith

On Apr 29, 12:49 pm, John Keith wrote:
I think I found the ultimate solution today!

I was thumbing through a material handling catalog today
(www.randmh.com) and saw some cargo handling bars.These are bars made
to span the inside of a trailer to restrain the load from shifting.The
ones in this catalog were for large trailers (89"-104" wide) but a
quick internet search yielded several source of similar cargo bars
made for small pickups and minivans.

John Keith


Yea, I use those to secure the load in my pickup. I'm guessing that
it won't be short enough for your window, even the small ones. It is
might be possible to cut the bars to a shorter length. You could try
a pipe cutter. I don't see it working any better than a pipe clamp,
in any case.

Yea, I use those to secure the load in my pickup. I'm guessing that
it won't be short enough for your window, even the small ones. It is
might be possible to cut the bars to a shorter length. You could try
a pipe cutter. I don't see it working any better than a pipe clamp,
in any case.

The ones on this link fit a 44" - 72" range (I need 48" and 52"),
have a nice trigger mechanism and are priced attractively.

http://www2.northerntool.com/product-1/200304601.htm


John Keith

On Apr 29, 5:24 pm, John Keith wrote:
Yea, I use those to secure the load in my pickup. I'm guessing that
it won't be short enough for your window, even the small ones. It is
might be possible to cut the bars to a shorter length. You could try
a pipe cutter. I don't see it working any better than a pipe clamp,
in any case.

The ones on this link fit a 44" - 72" range (I need 48" and 52"),
have a nice trigger mechanism and are priced attractively.

http://www2.northerntool.com/product-1/200304601.htm

John Keith


Then it should work. A pipe clamp all of those features and more. It
is less expensive and more versatile.

According to Lawrence :
On Apr 29, 5:24 pm, John Keith wrote:
Yea, I use those to secure the load in my pickup. I'm guessing that
it won't be short enough for your window, even the small ones. It is
might be possible to cut the bars to a shorter length. You could try
a pipe cutter. I don't see it working any better than a pipe clamp,
in any case.

The ones on this link fit a 44" - 72" range (I need 48" and 52"),
have a nice trigger mechanism and are priced attractively.

http://www2.northerntool.com/product-1/200304601.htm

John Keith


Then it should work. A pipe clamp all of those features and more. It
is less expensive and more versatile.

But much heavier, bulkier, more awkward to use (offcenter thrust,
trickier to get to stay in place while installing/adjusting), and not to
mention an eyesore.

I have lots of pipe clamps. Yes, they can be used for this. But
I wouldn't bet on it with the elderly - they'll be dropping it on
their foot, or running the pipe thru the glass. Reversible
bar clamps would be a trifle better (lighter/easier to manage),
but still similar problems not to mention higher expense.

The classic solution is a sawn off hockey stick handle - very popular
for sliding doors - just drop it in the track, and you can't open
the door, period. When cut to the right length, they can help close
the glass by pushing sideways on it. Or, hinge em in the middle (watch
out for pinching skin or fingers).

The NorthernTool cargo bar looks great for if the windows are
particularly stubborn. Notice the rubber feet. Rather better
than the end of a 1/2" piece of iron pipe.

I have one of these:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,43456,43391

I use it in our trailer.

Pricier, but _very_ light - 2 pounds I think. The NorthernTool one
may be better for older/weaker hands. The ratchet on the LeeValley
one might be hard on the fingers for some people if you have to crank
on a lot of force. Its locking mechanism is _very_ solid and the feet
are non-marring yet do not move.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.