Thanks for all the responses about newsreaders. It will keep me busy for a
while checking out a suitable one.

Sam

On 04 Feb 2005 23:02:33 GMT, ospam (Sambo145) wrote:

Thanks for all the responses about newsreaders. It will keep me busy for a
while checking out a suitable one.

Sam

If you decide on Agent and need a registration key I can email you the
one I am using which I found on the internet.

jaime wrote:

On 04 Feb 2005 23:02:33 GMT, ospam (Sambo145) wrote:

Thanks for all the responses about newsreaders. It will keep me busy for a
while checking out a suitable one.

Sam

If you decide on Agent and need a registration key I can email you the
one I am using which I found on the internet.


Tight ass *******, its 29 US dollars for a licence for software you
use every day AND get free upgrades for.

shakes head in disgust


--

No Spam wrote:

jaime wrote:

On 04 Feb 2005 23:02:33 GMT, ospam (Sambo145) wrote:

Thanks for all the responses about newsreaders. It will keep me busy for
a while checking out a suitable one.

Sam

If you decide on Agent and need a registration key I can email you the
one I am using which I found on the internet.


Tight ass *******, its 29 US dollars for a licence for software you
use every day AND get free upgrades for.

shakes head in disgust

Further, they have a very usable _free_ version of it. Geez, some
people . . .

--

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 14:20:00 +0000, No Spam
wrote:


Tight ass *******, its 29 US dollars for a licence for software you
use every day AND get free upgrades for.

I prefer to keep my *Canadian* dollars. Thanks eh.

**************************************
I'm *not* a bad person. I simply made the
mistake of getting involved with a *jack*ss*.
Is it ironic that he lives on a farm?
**************************************

jaime wrote in
:

snip

There are more than a few software people inhabiting this virtual space.
Hence, we often feel it is our livelihood being threatened.

Given the low cost and/or free software made available....

Patriarch

"jaime" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 14:20:00 +0000, No Spam
wrote:


Tight ass *******, its 29 US dollars for a licence for software you
use every day AND get free upgrades for.

I prefer to keep my *Canadian* dollars. Thanks eh.


That's really pretty low. Actually, it's stealing. Nothing particularly
admirable about that.
--

-Mike-

On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 21:56:52 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:


"jaime" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 14:20:00 +0000, No Spam
wrote:


Tight ass *******, its 29 US dollars for a licence for software you
use every day AND get free upgrades for.

I prefer to keep my *Canadian* dollars. Thanks eh.


That's really pretty low. Actually, it's stealing. Nothing particularly
admirable about that.

Well sweetie when one is on as limited as a budget as I personally am
and trying to raise 2 teenage sons on top of it, by myself I might
add, without the physical help or the financial resources of a
husband, I try to save money where I can.

I think my boys having full bellies at night, decent clean clothes to
go to school in and a roof over thier heads every day is more
important and much more admirable then buying pricey software at the
computer store.

If it wasn't for the help of my father at times I do not know what we
would do. If it wasn't for him I would not even have a computer or an
internet connection. If it was not for him my boys would not even
have had Christmas gifts or a Christmas dinner this past holiday
season.

Before you know *exactly* what my living situation is do not judge me.
I try my best each and every day but since my heart attack last year,
my best is getting tougher to accomplish but I will try until they put
me in that pine box, nail the lid shut and toss that first shovelfull
of dirt over me.



**************************************
I'm *not* a bad person. I simply made the
mistake of getting involved with a *jack*ss*.
Is it a coincidence that he lives on a farm?
**************************************

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:45:38 -0600, Patriarch
wrote:


There are more than a few software people inhabiting this virtual space.
Hence, we often feel it is our livelihood being threatened.

Given the low cost and/or free software made available....

Patriarch

I can understand how you feel but there are many people out there who
cannot afford the high costs of many of these software programs.

Bill Gates has made *billions* off of people for software it probably
cost him less to manufacture then what he retails it for.


**************************************
I'm *not* a bad person. I simply made the
mistake of getting involved with a *jack*ss*.
Is it a coincidence that he lives on a farm?
**************************************

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 21:19:45 -0600, WD wrote:

On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 21:56:52 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Some crooks feel pretty proud of stealing, willing to share their loots with
others. There are crooks even in Canada!



Okay!! I am out of here. Bye.

**************************************
I'm *not* a bad person. I simply made the
mistake of getting involved with a *jack*ss*.
Is it a coincidence that he lives on a farm?
**************************************

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 22:29:34 -0500, jaime wrote:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:45:38 -0600, Patriarch
wrote:


There are more than a few software people inhabiting this virtual space.
Hence, we often feel it is our livelihood being threatened.

Given the low cost and/or free software made available....

Patriarch

I can understand how you feel but there are many people out there who
cannot afford the high costs of many of these software programs.

Bill Gates has made *billions* off of people for software it probably
cost him less to manufacture then what he retails it for.


One would certainly hope this is the case. If a business cannot sell its
product for more than it costs to manufacture, that business will not
remain in business long. (The old saw, "We're losing $5 per unit we sell,
but that's OK, we'll make up for it in volume" doesn't work in the real
world).

What gets people irate with Bill is the fact that his company has engaged
in some significant strong-arm tactics and questionable tactics that, in
many peoples' mind are borderline unethical in order to maintain its
operating system monopoly. The fact that Msoft makes money is not the
issue, it's how it prevents competition and subjugates users and computer
manufacturers.






**************************************
I'm *not* a bad person. I simply made the
mistake of getting involved with a *jack*ss*.
Is it a coincidence that he lives on a farm?
**************************************



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety

Army General Richard Cody

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

jaime wrote in
:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:45:38 -0600, Patriarch
wrote:


There are more than a few software people inhabiting this virtual
space. Hence, we often feel it is our livelihood being threatened.

Given the low cost and/or free software made available....

Patriarch

I can understand how you feel but there are many people out there who
cannot afford the high costs of many of these software programs.

Bill Gates has made *billions* off of people for software it probably
cost him less to manufacture then what he retails it for.


Bill Gates isn't the issue here. He's no hero of mine, but that's not
the point.

Free software is available to do the job as well or better. Folks
donated that effort into the public domain so that you and I don't have
to make an ethical decision to use, without compensating the author(s),
software which has not been so donated.

I didn't, and don't, want to make an issue of it. You are free to make
your own choices. But there are those here who feel strongly about
this. Since you are relatively new to this venue, I thought maybe you'd
like to know why some are offended.

Patriarch

jaime writes:


Bill Gates has made *billions* off of people for software it probably
cost him less to manufacture then what he retails it for.

He wouldn't have made a nickel if it cost the same or more to manufacture it.

Charlie Self
"I think we agree, the past is over." George W. Bush

jaime wrote in
:

snip

There are 2 points made in this thread:

1. It is generally considered unethical to use software without paying for
it if you should have paid for it according to the license.

2. There is plenty of free software available for much of what one wants
to do on a computer.

Personally, I didn't like Agent when I tried it years ago, after NS was
giving me fits. Since then I have used Xnews with hardly a problem. It
may take a few days getting used to it, but Agent was giving me fits as
well.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"jaime" wrote in message
...

Well sweetie when one is on as limited as a budget as I personally am
and trying to raise 2 teenage sons on top of it, by myself I might
add, without the physical help or the financial resources of a
husband, I try to save money where I can.


Don't call me sweetie, my wife is the jealous type.

I think my boys having full bellies at night, decent clean clothes to
go to school in and a roof over thier heads every day is more
important and much more admirable then buying pricey software at the
computer store.

If it wasn't for the help of my father at times I do not know what we
would do. If it wasn't for him I would not even have a computer or an
internet connection. If it was not for him my boys would not even
have had Christmas gifts or a Christmas dinner this past holiday
season.

Before you know *exactly* what my living situation is do not judge me.
I try my best each and every day but since my heart attack last year,
my best is getting tougher to accomplish but I will try until they put
me in that pine box, nail the lid shut and toss that first shovelfull
of dirt over me.


I made no judgments jamie. I don't know you at all so I have to take your
word for who and what you are and that's fine by me. I made a simple
statement. It's stealing, it's illegal and it's wrong. Justify it all you
want, but the fact of the matter is that there are plenty of absolutely free
programs out there that work just fine. You know that it's wrong and if you
were the victim of someone stealing from you, I'm sure you'd have a lot to
say about it. That would be your right. Dragging out the old "if you only
knew how hard I have it" line really does not bring any justification to the
matter. Do you know what the living conditions of anyone in this newsgroup
are? Are you certain that there are not plenty of people in situations
similar to yours? Maybe a lot of them pirate software too, but they don't
brag about it in a usenet post and offer to share the ill gotten gains.
Maybe a lot of them find alternatives to taking what is not theirs.
--

-Mike-

"jaime" wrote in message
...

I can understand how you feel but there are many people out there who
cannot afford the high costs of many of these software programs.

Bill Gates has made *billions* off of people for software it probably
cost him less to manufacture then what he retails it for.


And the point is?

--

-Mike-

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 22:26:54 -0500, jaime
wrote:

[snip]
Well sweetie when one is on as limited as a budget as I personally am
and trying to raise 2 teenage sons on top of it, by myself I might
add, without the physical help or the financial resources of a
husband, I try to save money where I can.

I think my boys having full bellies at night, decent clean clothes to
go to school in and a roof over thier heads every day is more
important and much more admirable then buying pricey software at the
computer store.

If it wasn't for the help of my father at times I do not know what we
would do. If it wasn't for him I would not even have a computer or an
internet connection. If it was not for him my boys would not even
have had Christmas gifts or a Christmas dinner this past holiday
season.

Before you know *exactly* what my living situation is do not judge me.
I try my best each and every day but since my heart attack last year,
my best is getting tougher to accomplish but I will try until they put
me in that pine box, nail the lid shut and toss that first shovelfull
of dirt over me.

Sob. Another part of raising children (in my mind anyway) is
imparting a sense of ethics and right or wrong. Bragging to the world
about stealing software seems counter to that goal.

Kind of like smoking dope in front of them while telling them how bad
it is for them.

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 09:01:28 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

"jaime" wrote in message
.. .

I can understand how you feel but there are many people out there who
cannot afford the high costs of many of these software programs.

Bill Gates has made *billions* off of people for software it probably
cost him less to manufacture then what he retails it for.


And the point is?

It's OK to steal and share it with others.

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:45:38 -0600, Patriarch
wrote:

jaime wrote in
:

snip

There are more than a few software people inhabiting this virtual space.
Hence, we often feel it is our livelihood being threatened.

Given the low cost and/or free software made available....

Patriarch
=============================
I have no problem paying for software that I can install on all of my
home computers... BUT I do have a problem with the fact that I can not
Buy a single copy of Windows XP and install it on each of my
computers ... In a case like that I would resort to "stealing"

Imagine owning a Forrest WW11 blade and can only use it on one
tablesaw...

Bob Griffiths

Bob Griffiths

There are more than a few software people inhabiting this virtual space.
Hence, we often feel it is our livelihood being threatened.

Given the low cost and/or free software made available....

Patriarch
=============================
I have no problem paying for software that I can install on all of my
home computers... BUT I do have a problem with the fact that I can not
Buy a single copy of Windows XP and install it on each of my
computers ... In a case like that I would resort to "stealing"

Imagine owning a Forrest WW11 blade and can only use it on one
tablesaw...

....at a time. Seems reasonable to me. I'm sure you're free to install
Windows XP on each of your computers as long as you uninstall it from the
previous one before installing it on the next.

- Owen -

...at a time. Seems reasonable to me. I'm sure you're free to install
Windows XP on each of your computers as long as you uninstall it from the
previous one before installing it on the next.

- Owen -

=Yep Owen I can do that...

all I need to do is remove it from computer number one install it in
computer number 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 then pick up my telephone and call
Microsoft...after spending 20 minutes eplaining what I am doing..AND
WHY I am doing it ... the nice gal at microsoft will give me the Key
to activate it...


At 150 bucks a pop...it is almost as cheap buying a cheap E-Machines
computer to use in the shop...

Before Xp and Microsofts new activation scheme.. I could load 98,
Me,or 2000 on any of my computers and have them all fuction...

Oh well...

Bob Griffiths

That if Windows, and Internet Virus Explorer really did work it might be
worth something to justify the cost and subsequent enrichment of the MS
group. :-)

I'm all for people making money -- by selling stuff that works. Not so
sure about Windows and its security holes being priced appropriately.

Other than that, you're right. :-)) What's the point?


Mike Marlow wrote:
"jaime" wrote in message
...

I can understand how you feel but there are many people out there who
cannot afford the high costs of many of these software programs.

Bill Gates has made *billions* off of people for software it probably
cost him less to manufacture then what he retails it for.



And the point is?


--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

Bob G. wrote:

all I need to do is remove it from computer number one install it in
computer number 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 then pick up my telephone and call
Microsoft...after spending 20 minutes eplaining what I am doing..AND
WHY I am doing it ... the nice gal at microsoft will give me the Key
to activate it...

Yeah, what a pain in the ass. That right there (Product Activation) was the
#1 reason why I finally tried Linux. I'm not a thief, dammit, and I
refused to have anything to do with that game. I never have had to deal
with it, but I imagine it's a toll call at that, and they probably keep you
on hold forever.

I'm glad for Product Activation. Without it, I might never have tried
Linux. I really didn't want to look at it at the time, and I was convinced
before trying it that it would be crappy. It would have been very easy to
keep me convinced that there were no viable alternatives to Windows.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

"Silvan" wrote in message
...

I'm glad for Product Activation. Without it, I might never have tried
Linux. I really didn't want to look at it at the time, and I was
convinced
before trying it that it would be crappy. It would have been very easy to
keep me convinced that there were no viable alternatives to Windows.


So what are you and the other Linux users using for an office suite these
days? A while ago I played with a product from Sun called Star Office and
it seemed to be pretty decent, but I don't know if that's still around or
not.
--

-Mike-

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 20:06:49 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Can you run Forte Agent under Linux or other Win programs?

I'm glad for Product Activation. Without it, I might never have tried
Linux. I really didn't want to look at it at the time, and I was convinced
before trying it that it would be crappy. It would have been very easy to
keep me convinced that there were no viable alternatives to Windows.

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 20:45:36 -0500, Mike Marlow wrote:

So what are you and the other Linux users using for an office suite these
days? A while ago I played with a product from Sun called Star Office and
it seemed to be pretty decent, but I don't know if that's still around or
not.

http://www.openoffice.org/

Also runs on Windows if you don't want to cough up the $495 for MS Office
Professional.

- Doug

--

To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)

Doug Winterburn wrote in
news snip
http://www.openoffice.org/

Also runs on Windows if you don't want to cough up the $495 for MS
Office Professional.

- Doug


Works pretty well, and I sleep nights.

I don't believe that MS Office is worth the price for my needs. I
apppreciate the efforts that were _donated_ to make Open Office available
at that price.

Kind of like the free advice available here on the wReck. Not a substitute
for classes or books, but a real supplement.

Patriarch

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 22:29:34 -0500, jaime wrote:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:45:38 -0600, Patriarch
wrote:


There are more than a few software people inhabiting this virtual space.
Hence, we often feel it is our livelihood being threatened.

Given the low cost and/or free software made available....

Patriarch

I can understand how you feel but there are many people out there who
cannot afford the high costs of many of these software programs.

Bill Gates has made *billions* off of people for software it probably
cost him less to manufacture then what he retails it for.

so, using that rationalization, it's ok to steal from him?

I find that in way too many cases, morals are defined as fear of getting
caught..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 08:52:49 -0800, mac davis wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 22:29:34 -0500, jaime wrote:

I can understand how you feel but there are many people out there who
cannot afford the high costs of many of these software programs.

Then one is free to do without them. Isn't choice wonderful?

Bill Gates has made *billions* off of people for software it probably
cost him less to manufacture then what he retails it for.

Of course it does. He also has developers and lawyers to pay, and they
have families to feed.

so, using that rationalization, it's ok to steal from him?

That's the thing. As much as I disrespect, loathe, detest, and
dislike Bill Gates, I won't steal from him. Couple reasons, but even
back when I _was_ using Windows, I wouldn't steal from him.

I find that in way too many cases, morals are defined as fear of getting
caught..

Yes, and people who don't care about ethics always have a way to
justify stealing what they want. Some of us here make our living
in the software industry, and take that sort of thing kind of personally...

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 11:58:43 -0500, Bob G. wrote:


I have no problem paying for software that I can install on all of my
home computers... BUT I do have a problem with the fact that I can not
Buy a single copy of Windows XP and install it on each of my
computers ... In a case like that I would resort to "stealing"

Imagine owning a Forrest WW11 blade and can only use it on one
tablesaw...

Bob Griffiths

Bob.. I don't know if this is still the case, but when I bough XpPro, I was
****ed that I couldn't install it on our other machine(s)...
I sent an email to Micro$oft support and got one back asking me to do a live
chat with a tech... after understanding my problem, he gave me 2 additional
validation numbers for the other computers.. (at no charge)



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 22:26:54 -0500, jaime wrote:

On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 21:56:52 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:


"jaime" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 14:20:00 +0000, No Spam
wrote:


Tight ass *******, its 29 US dollars for a licence for software you
use every day AND get free upgrades for.

I prefer to keep my *Canadian* dollars. Thanks eh.


That's really pretty low. Actually, it's stealing. Nothing particularly
admirable about that.

Well sweetie when one is on as limited as a budget as I personally am
and trying to raise 2 teenage sons on top of it, by myself I might
add, without the physical help or the financial resources of a
husband, I try to save money where I can.

I think my boys having full bellies at night, decent clean clothes to
go to school in and a roof over thier heads every day is more
important and much more admirable then buying pricey software at the
computer store.

If it wasn't for the help of my father at times I do not know what we
would do. If it wasn't for him I would not even have a computer or an
internet connection. If it was not for him my boys would not even
have had Christmas gifts or a Christmas dinner this past holiday
season.

Before you know *exactly* what my living situation is do not judge me.
I try my best each and every day but since my heart attack last year,
my best is getting tougher to accomplish but I will try until they put
me in that pine box, nail the lid shut and toss that first shovelfull
of dirt over me.


so, extending that, since you're poor and raising kids, the grocery store is ok
to take what you need from too, right?

Back in the "old days", if you didn't have the bucks to pay, you didn't play...
I guess things have changed a lot..
Maybe it's time to see just how much Steve Knight is making on his planes, cuz I
have a wife, 4 kids, 2 ex wives and a dozen grandkids and maybe it would be ok
to just take one from him since he's making money and I can't afford a hand
built plane..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...

Yes, and people who don't care about ethics always have a way to
justify stealing what they want. Some of us here make our living
in the software industry, and take that sort of thing kind of
personally...

Very true, but it's more than that. It's not just software and those of us
who did, or currently do make our living off of it. It's the bigger issue
of theft. Those who justify any type of theft in the way that jamie tried
to are equally comfortable justifying another type of theft. It's just a
matter of applying a justification to it and the discomfort that should be
associated with it disappears. Theft is theft, whether it's software,
woodworking, music, or anything else. Sadly, our society is losing touch
with the simple moral issue associated with theft. It was unbelievable to
watch the battle over downloading music illegally play out. The
justifications presented were very revealing with respect to the American
attitude towards what the individual is "entitled" to, versus what the
simple matter of the law is.
--

-Mike-

"mac davis" wrote in message
...


Back in the "old days", if you didn't have the bucks to pay, you didn't
play...
I guess things have changed a lot..
Maybe it's time to see just how much Steve Knight is making on his planes,
cuz I
have a wife, 4 kids, 2 ex wives and a dozen grandkids and maybe it would
be ok
to just take one from him since he's making money and I can't afford a
hand
built plane..


Take two. But send me one, OK?

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

snip

Very true, but it's more than that. It's not just software and those
of us who did, or currently do make our living off of it. It's the
bigger issue of theft. Those who justify any type of theft in the way
that jamie tried to are equally comfortable justifying another type of
theft. It's just a matter of applying a justification to it and the
discomfort that should be associated with it disappears. Theft is
theft, whether it's software, woodworking, music, or anything else.
Sadly, our society is losing touch with the simple moral issue
associated with theft. It was unbelievable to watch the battle over
downloading music illegally play out. The justifications presented
were very revealing with respect to the American attitude towards what
the individual is "entitled" to, versus what the simple matter of the
law is.

I found it very interesting to watch various cultural and historical issues
play out, with regard to intellectual property, while involved in the
international telecommunications equipment industry. It is simple to say
that there are vastly differing cultural heritage issues at work here.
Beyond that, things get muddy pretty quickly.

What's 'right', which seems pretty clear to you and me, seems to vary
greatly. And those who proceed without an understanding of that situation
are not likely to prosper in their efforts.

Patriarch,
not preaching on a Monday...

Patriarch responds:
Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

snip

Very true, but it's more than that. It's not just software and those
of us who did, or currently do make our living off of it. It's the
bigger issue of theft. Those who justify any type of theft in the way
that jamie tried to are equally comfortable justifying another type of
theft. It's just a matter of applying a justification to it and the
discomfort that should be associated with it disappears. Theft is
theft, whether it's software, woodworking, music, or anything else.
Sadly, our society is losing touch with the simple moral issue
associated with theft. It was unbelievable to watch the battle over
downloading music illegally play out. The justifications presented
were very revealing with respect to the American attitude towards what
the individual is "entitled" to, versus what the simple matter of the
law is.

I found it very interesting to watch various cultural and historical issues
play out, with regard to intellectual property, while involved in the
international telecommunications equipment industry. It is simple to say
that there are vastly differing cultural heritage issues at work here.
Beyond that, things get muddy pretty quickly.

What's 'right', which seems pretty clear to you and me, seems to vary
greatly. And those who proceed without an understanding of that situation
are not likely to prosper in their efforts.

I'm not at all sure those moral issues are from differing heritages: most kids
my grandchildrens' ages seem to feel entitled to peel whatever they want off
the Internet (music, mainly, but also games) without paying anything at all.
With that right goes the extension that it now belongs to them, so they can do
as they wish as far as passing it along goes.

That may be a differing cultural heritage, but, hey, we're all WASPs, though
I'm far less serious about the P part of that than the kids' parents are.

You've got to wonder, I would think, just what is going to happen to the
inducement to create new songs, new stories, new plans when the chance of
making a living at doing so disappears. Spend a month designing a new
workbench, another month building it, a week writing it up, and get paid
$1500-$2000 for an article on it on the web (good luck with those amounts, by
the way, but also consider just how well paid you are at that rate per nine
weeks). And forget about using it elsewhere, because everyone who wants it
downloads what's on the web, now and into the unforeseable future. Spend
however long it takes to write a song, play it once and it's gone, no money, or
little money, because, viola, it now belongs to the masses.

Different culture? Music will out, I'm told, as it did in the '30s and '40s,
resulting in the '60s and '70s folk music craze. Sure it will. Do we want to
know how much money some of those folksingers made during that time? Do we want
to live with that kind of fairly uniform music?

I don't know what the answers are, but if we expect creativity in any area of
our lives, we'd best not step too far away from rewarding the creators with a
decent living--we really don't do that particularly well now (reference a guy
who sang a particularly godawful song, 'Achy, Breaky Heart', getting a $27
million six month royalty payment on that POS some years ago), but a step
towards universal free use of everything published in any way is not a step in
the right direction.

It may not seem to matter when you steal from already well paid musicians or
programmers, but it does help set an attitude saying that theft doesn't matter.
To call it other than theft, we'd need to change our moral and legal bases. It
may be different internationally: that's only to be expected. That is not to
say that our particular approach is wrong, though. It may well be that the
cultural biases of other nations are the ones that don't work as well as do
ours.

Charlie Self
"I think we agree, the past is over." George W. Bush

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 08:52:49 -0800, mac davis
wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 22:29:34 -0500, jaime wrote:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:45:38 -0600, Patriarch
wrote:


There are more than a few software people inhabiting this virtual space.
Hence, we often feel it is our livelihood being threatened.

Given the low cost and/or free software made available....

Patriarch

I can understand how you feel but there are many people out there who
cannot afford the high costs of many of these software programs.


Software is only "cheap" in the distribution. Making it WORK is hard.
What numerical accuracy do you expect from your ATM machine in a
32-digit calculation? Now try to get that kind of accuracy out of a PC.

While you're working on that, I'll reproduce the works of Norm,
Stickley, Chippendale, and every anonymous Shaker who ever lived.

Oh . . . and I recommend the slrn newsreader.

So, do you teach these boys that it's OK for mommy to steal? Do you
steal the clothes you put on their back and the food you fill their
bellies with? Why is it different with software?

If you're going to whine about your situation, look at your ethics
first.

-jtpr

Can't get wife to switch to Linux, but we now use Open Office/Star Office.

Switching time was 5 minutes for spread sheets and Documents - not
including moaning time about difficulty of switching (2 days moaning --
5 minutes switching). She's happy now.

It's easy to output a PDF document directly - which is a nice feature.


Silvan wrote:
Bob G. wrote:


all I need to do is remove it from computer number one install it in
computer number 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 then pick up my telephone and call
Microsoft...after spending 20 minutes eplaining what I am doing..AND
WHY I am doing it ... the nice gal at microsoft will give me the Key
to activate it...


Yeah, what a pain in the ass. That right there (Product Activation) was the
#1 reason why I finally tried Linux. I'm not a thief, dammit, and I
refused to have anything to do with that game. I never have had to deal
with it, but I imagine it's a toll call at that, and they probably keep you
on hold forever.

I'm glad for Product Activation. Without it, I might never have tried
Linux. I really didn't want to look at it at the time, and I was convinced
before trying it that it would be crappy. It would have been very easy to
keep me convinced that there were no viable alternatives to Windows.


--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

Where are you guys getting Linux from? As well, any associated applications
such as Open Office or Star Office or whatever is commonly used today?

I've got a machine that has been just sitting around and not even on the
network for a while and I might just put it on and load it up. It's been so
long since I've looked at the Linux world that I don't even know what
everyone uses these days. Redhat? Purplecoat?

--

-Mike-

When I started out assessing Linux I got four flavours - Red Hat,
Mandrake, Slackware and SuSe. All had advantages and disadvantages. Not
much has changed in that respect.

I now use Slackware Linux on three systems (paid money even :-) -- But
you can also download through Bit Torrent - I just got the latest
Slackware 10.1 -- it looks pretty good. This will be the last release
with the 2.4 kernel (2.4.29). KDE desktop is 3.3.2 . Much slicker now.
http://www.slackware.com

Slackware includes the 2.6 kernel -- just haven't tried it yet.

Also -- we packed in our NT Server for a Linux Mandrake server running
on the AMD64 (ASUS K8VSE-Deluxe board) The software is a lot cheaper and
we don't have all the security holes of Windows Server 2000. (2.6
currently KDE 3.2.3) Got a (almost) free version somehow (forget how it
came to me) a few months ago, but I will pay full price for the next
major upgrade - since it does work reliably.
http://www.mandrakelinux.com

Slackware has worked the best for us - it is the most configurable of
the Linux variations I have tried and it is inexpensive. Flexibility is
important for our development.

Openoffice satisfies almost all our business needs other than accounting.

Linux User Magazine -- large format -- usually has a a community edition
release of one of the Linux flavours every month on the accompanying DVD.

I just noticed that 3 out of 5 machines near me are currently running
Linux for development purposes. Funny -- cause I was thinking it was
mostly Windows in our little shop.

Windows XP is required here because we use software for images
processing and accounting for which we have not found better Linux
alternatives. One machine left on Windows 2000 -- but the user better
switch soon or I will pull their network cable.

You can buy magazines, and books with a Linux "community" edition. Since
you can test on your free machine, I would spend a few bucks on these
"trial" versions and see what you like. They are all very good now.

Mike Marlow wrote:
Where are you guys getting Linux from? As well, any associated applications
such as Open Office or Star Office or whatever is commonly used today?

I've got a machine that has been just sitting around and not even on the
network for a while and I might just put it on and load it up. It's been so
long since I've looked at the Linux world that I don't even know what
everyone uses these days. Redhat? Purplecoat?


--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek