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| Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
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#41
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/13/2018 10:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:06:05 PM UTC-5, wrote: On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump. https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/ See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips? It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process: 1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square 2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence 2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade. 3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks. Nope. No saw marks needed. See 2a (above). My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. So you're saying that jointing with a router should be avoided? Why are there so many articles and videos from so many sources detailing the technique? Many articles and videos are simply some one repeating what they saw or heard, right or wrong. Joining with a router table is much like hand nailing with nail gun nails. It can be done but is it the preferred or best way to do it? Why does a jointer work better than using a router table to join boards? To begin with "mass", the jointer is heavy and absorbs vibration and is typically all iron so that it does not flex. The router table is pretty much light weight by comparison and not as stiff. When you are joining on a jointer you use the weight of the material to help hold the work against the cutter and indexing surfaces. Not to mention it is easier to push down vs. sideways like on a RT. And you can use your body weight to pus down on the work as it goes through a jointer. Your weight is not used to keep the work against the cutter on a router table. One more thing on you technique that may not have been covered. When you are running the work on the RT are you straightening the convex edge of the board? If not you will be changing feed direction all through the cut if the fence on both sides is not as long as the work. |
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#43
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/2018 9:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 8:12:31 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote: "DerbyDad03" wrote in message ... I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips? It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process: 1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square 2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence 3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks. My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Except for the bumps  I actually added that at the end of my post and then deleted it before hitting send. :-) LOL.... |
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#44
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/13/2018 10:56 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 11:41:57 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:11:09 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. Here's an option that uses aluminum a slightly different manner. http://www.finewoodworking.com/2005/...ith-the-router I've used this method also but I couldn't get it to work as well. I can't remember exactly why but I had to make several passes to get it perfect. User operator error of some kind, I'm sure. Join the club! I'm sure I'm doing something wrong too. I can guarantee you that aluminum angle is not straight enough to form a glue line surface. |
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#45
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/2018 9:06 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 12:54:31 AM UTC-5, Sonny wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:31:12 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: When jointing on a router table, the fences are *supposed* to be mis-aligned. Correct! The out-feed fence is supposed to be about 1/16" closer to the operator than the in-feed fence. Correct! The bit is then aligned flush with the face of the out-feed fence. Correct! I'm suspecting the two fences, outfeed and infeed, are not parallel, despite their being offset. They are not exactly coplanar. They need to be offset and they also need to be perfectly coplanar. I suspect your hand movement is giving you a misjudged idea of why you are having the bump. It's not your hand movement that's the (main, if at all) problem. Check to make sure your fences are coplanar, despite their being offset. Sonny, I'd love to agree with you here, but when I can hear the router change sounds and see the wood move away from the fence as I shift my hands, and then see the bump (or bumps) exactly where I expect them to be, I have to blame it on my hands. Sometimes I get one if I am ever, so so careful and slow, others times I get 2 or 3, but they are *always* positioned exactly where the wood is contacting the bit when my hands shift position. Sonny There is also the possibility that you are applying too much pressure and slightly bending the board as you are feeding it. If so the board could spring back slightly if even pressure is not applied. |
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#46
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 11:02:08 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 1/13/2018 9:43 PM, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 9:06:05 PM UTC-6, wrote: On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump. https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/ See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips? It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process: 1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square 2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence 2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade. 3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks. Nope. No saw marks needed. See 2a (above). My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. Thanks for the info on this. I think was Norm who once talked about not clamping too hard because it would squeeze all the glue out of a joint. I've always kept that in the back of my mind. |
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#47
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/18 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. Yeah, there are a lot of old wives' tales in woodworking and those are three of them. Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. The glue staved thing is mostly a myth. The proper amount of glue is enough glue to lightly coat the surfaces, and if wanted, allowed to "soak in" for a minute before joining together and clamping. And that is usually too much. :-) Like you said, if there's *any* squeeze-out at all, it's enough. As for clamping, again I will say I think most people would be very surprised by how little pressure is actually required for a properly clamped glue joint. Most people, myself included, use WAY too much pressure and way too much glue. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com |
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#48
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/18 11:22 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/13/2018 10:56 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 11:41:57 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:11:09 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. Here's an option that uses aluminum a slightly different manner. http://www.finewoodworking.com/2005/...ith-the-router I've used this method also but I couldn't get it to work as well. I can't remember exactly why but I had to make several passes to get it perfect. User operator error of some kind, I'm sure. Join the club! I'm sure I'm doing something wrong too. I can guarantee you that aluminum angle is not straight enough to form a glue line surface. It's only straight if it's attached to something straight. :-) I think in the article in the link, it's attached to a straight board and hopefully triple checked. I believe the aluminum is there to give the router bit bearing a hard, smooth surface to reference. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com |
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#49
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message ... I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? Since you want to think that your holding method is at fault rather than your fence haves not being parallel, let me suggest that you not move your hands. There is no need to, left hand holds the work against the outfeed fence, right hand moves it along. Now, if the work were much more than 36" long, you would have to move your right hand but not your left; no matter, left is still holding it where it should be. Trust me, all is true, been doing it that way for more than 30 years. |
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#50
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 12:20:24 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/13/2018 11:17 PM, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/13/18 10:15 PM, wrote: On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 20:05:06 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:06:05 PM UTC-5, wrote: On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump. https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/ See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips? It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process: 1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square 2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence 2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade. 3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks. Nope.Â* No saw marks needed.Â* See 2a (above). My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. So you're saying that jointing with a router should be avoided? No, just that a table saw, properly set up, is good enough. Why are there so many articles and videos from so many sources detailing the technique? I have no idea.Â* Maybe because if all you have a hammer, the entire world looks like a screw? However, the point I was trying to make was that a glass-like surface may not be best for a (wood) glue joint. There are so many articles because people don't have decent table saws nor blades. He's right.Â* A great rip blade and properly tuned table saw are all you need. yeah! I just "jointed" some boards with a freshly sharpened 24 tooth rip blade. When "joined", the "joints" look good. ;-) I'm going to go with them for the ~18" wide top for my base cabinets. 2 seams. They will be screwed to supports inside the cabinet (and painted) so if the joints ever fail, the panels will be easy to replace. It's a learning experience. |
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#51
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
"dadiOH" wrote in message news  "DerbyDad03" wrote in message ... I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? Since you want to think that your holding method is at fault rather than your fence haves HALVES |
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#52
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/2018 1:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Snip I just "jointed" some boards with a freshly sharpened 24 tooth rip blade. When "joined", the "joints" look good. ;-) I'm going to go with them for the ~18" wide top for my base cabinets. 2 seams. They will be screwed to supports inside the cabinet (and painted) so if the joints ever fail, the panels will be easy to replace. It's a learning experience. If you are going cross grain with your supports leave the screw holes a little big to give the wood some wiggle room during seasonal climate changes. Your joints should not fail... ;~) |
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#53
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/2018 12:48 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/14/18 11:22 AM, Leon wrote: On 1/13/2018 10:56 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 11:41:57 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:11:09 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the Â*out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. Here's an option that uses aluminum a slightly different manner. http://www.finewoodworking.com/2005/...ith-the-router I've used this method also but I couldn't get it to work as well. I can't remember exactly why but I had to make several passes to get it perfect. User operator error of some kind, I'm sure. Join the club! I'm sure I'm doing something wrong too. I can guarantee you that aluminum angle is not straight enough to form a glue line surface. It's only straight if it's attached to something straight.Â*Â* :-) I think in the article in the link, it's attached to a straight board and hopefully triple checked.Â* I believe the aluminum is there to give the router bit bearing a hard, smooth surface to reference. Yeah, and what are the chances of that board staying straight through out the year. Probably a better choice would have been to use a straight piece of plywood. LOL. I think the aluminum would dent or nick pretty easily. |
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#54
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/18 3:23 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/14/2018 12:48 PM, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 11:22 AM, Leon wrote: On 1/13/2018 10:56 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 11:41:57 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:11:09 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the Â*out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. Here's an option that uses aluminum a slightly different manner. http://www.finewoodworking.com/2005/...ith-the-router I've used this method also but I couldn't get it to work as well. I can't remember exactly why but I had to make several passes to get it perfect. User operator error of some kind, I'm sure. Join the club! I'm sure I'm doing something wrong too. I can guarantee you that aluminum angle is not straight enough to form a glue line surface. It's only straight if it's attached to something straight.Â*Â* :-) I think in the article in the link, it's attached to a straight board and hopefully triple checked.Â* I believe the aluminum is there to give the router bit bearing a hard, smooth surface to reference. Yeah, and what are the chances of that board staying straight through out the year.Â*Â* Probably a better choice would have been to use a straight piece of plywood.Â*Â* LOL.Â* I think the aluminum would dent or nick pretty easily. True with the plywood, of course. I think aluminum isn't a bad choice because it wouldn't dull the bit if it got nicked. I used hard maple for the bearing guides on my dado jig and it works great. https://goo.gl/photos/StFnQBzCj3J9NCcp8 -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com |
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#55
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 1:56:44 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message ... I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? Since you want to think that your holding method is at fault rather than your fence haves not being parallel, let me suggest that you not move your hands. Hearing and vision were enough to prove to me that the issue was my holding method. The fact that I just perfectly jointed a board that fit within the fence width, requiring no need for me to move my hands along the stock, convinces me all the more. There is no need to, left hand holds the work against the outfeed fence, right hand moves it along. Now, if the work were much more than 36" long, you would have to move your right hand but not your left; no matter, left is still holding it where it should be. I just changed my feed method and hand positions. I did not change my fences. I was able to joint a 36" board without any bumps. I was previously holding the board down and against fence with both hands on the out-feed side. Even tried paddles. This time, partially based on your wording, I installed a feather board to hold the board down and placed my left hand on the table, keeping pressure on outside edge of the board to hold it against the out-feed table while moving it with my right. Perfectly jointed edge. Trust me, all is true, been doing it that way for more than 30 years. Bottom line is that it wasn't that I *wanted* to think my holding method was at fault, it was 100% true that my holding method was at fault. There was/is no issue with my fences. Thanks for your suggestion regarding a different holding method. |
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#56
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 11:02:00 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote: On 1/13/2018 9:43 PM, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 9:06:05 PM UTC-6, wrote: On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump. https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/ See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips? It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process: 1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square 2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence 2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade. 3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks. Nope. No saw marks needed. See 2a (above). My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. I don't think the issue is tooth marks (there shouldn't be any). The issue is the "polished surface". The glue has to have something to bite into. A polished surface doesn't work. Try using Titebond on glass. |
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#57
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:44:52 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote: On 1/14/18 11:02 AM, Leon wrote: My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. Yeah, there are a lot of old wives' tales in woodworking and those are three of them. Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. Try it with glass. The glue staved thing is mostly a myth. The proper amount of glue is enough glue to lightly coat the surfaces, and if wanted, allowed to "soak in" for a minute before joining together and clamping. And that is usually too much. :-) Like you said, if there's *any* squeeze-out at all, it's enough. As for clamping, again I will say I think most people would be very surprised by how little pressure is actually required for a properly clamped glue joint. Most people, myself included, use WAY too much pressure and way too much glue. |
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#58
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:48:33 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote: On 1/14/18 11:22 AM, Leon wrote: On 1/13/2018 10:56 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 11:41:57 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:11:09 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. Here's an option that uses aluminum a slightly different manner. http://www.finewoodworking.com/2005/...ith-the-router I've used this method also but I couldn't get it to work as well. I can't remember exactly why but I had to make several passes to get it perfect. User operator error of some kind, I'm sure. Join the club! I'm sure I'm doing something wrong too. I can guarantee you that aluminum angle is not straight enough to form a glue line surface. It's only straight if it's attached to something straight. :-) I think in the article in the link, it's attached to a straight board and hopefully triple checked. I believe the aluminum is there to give the router bit bearing a hard, smooth surface to reference. But why does the bearing need a surface harder than a board. It's not very sharp. ;-) |
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#59
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/18 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 11:02:00 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 1/13/2018 9:43 PM, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 9:06:05 PM UTC-6, wrote: On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump. https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/ See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips? It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process: 1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square 2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence 2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade. 3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks. Nope. No saw marks needed. See 2a (above). My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. I don't think the issue is tooth marks (there shouldn't be any). The issue is the "polished surface". The glue has to have something to bite into. A polished surface doesn't work. Try using Titebond on glass. That is simply not true and a completely apples to oranges... well, no, actually a wood to glass comparison. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com |
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#60
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 5:03:30 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:44:52 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 11:02 AM, Leon wrote: My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. Yeah, there are a lot of old wives' tales in woodworking and those are three of them. Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. Try it with glass. Apples and Gorillas |
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#61
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/18 4:03 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:44:52 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 11:02 AM, Leon wrote: My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. Yeah, there are a lot of old wives' tales in woodworking and those are three of them. Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. Try it with glass. Does the bottle state the product works on glass? Don't look, I'll tell you. No, it doesn't. The glass comparison is totally irrelevant. The glue doesn't work on many many things, but that in no way supports your "smooth surface" theory. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com |
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#62
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/18 4:07 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:48:33 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 11:22 AM, Leon wrote: On 1/13/2018 10:56 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 11:41:57 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:11:09 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. Here's an option that uses aluminum a slightly different manner. http://www.finewoodworking.com/2005/...ith-the-router I've used this method also but I couldn't get it to work as well. I can't remember exactly why but I had to make several passes to get it perfect. User operator error of some kind, I'm sure. Join the club! I'm sure I'm doing something wrong too. I can guarantee you that aluminum angle is not straight enough to form a glue line surface. It's only straight if it's attached to something straight. :-) I think in the article in the link, it's attached to a straight board and hopefully triple checked. I believe the aluminum is there to give the router bit bearing a hard, smooth surface to reference. But why does the bearing need a surface harder than a board. It's not very sharp. ;-) I think it's to protect it from betting bumped or nicked up. I used hard maple on my dado jig because the surfaces are always protected by the opposing sides. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com |
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#63
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:27:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote: On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 5:03:30 PM UTC-5, wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:44:52 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 11:02 AM, Leon wrote: My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. Yeah, there are a lot of old wives' tales in woodworking and those are three of them. Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. Try it with glass. Apples and Gorillas No, it really isn't. It's a mechanical connection. |
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#64
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 16:28:13 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote: On 1/14/18 4:03 PM, wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:44:52 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 11:02 AM, Leon wrote: My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. Yeah, there are a lot of old wives' tales in woodworking and those are three of them. Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. Try it with glass. Does the bottle state the product works on glass? Don't look, I'll tell you. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't because it needs a mechanical connection to the surface. That requires a texture, much as they tell you to rough up gloss paint before repainting (after cure). The glass comparison is totally irrelevant. The glue doesn't work on many many things, but that in no way supports your "smooth surface" theory. No, it really isn't. |
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#65
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 16:25:46 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote: On 1/14/18 4:02 PM, wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 11:02:00 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 1/13/2018 9:43 PM, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 9:06:05 PM UTC-6, wrote: On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump. https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/ See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips? It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process: 1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square 2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence 2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade. 3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks. Nope. No saw marks needed. See 2a (above). My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. I don't think the issue is tooth marks (there shouldn't be any). The issue is the "polished surface". The glue has to have something to bite into. A polished surface doesn't work. Try using Titebond on glass. That is simply not true and a completely apples to oranges... well, no, actually a wood to glass comparison. Yes, it is. It's just an order of magnitude or so different. It's still a mechanical connection. It's not like a plastic glue, where it's more of a weld. |
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#66
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 16:30:15 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote: On 1/14/18 4:07 PM, wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:48:33 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 11:22 AM, Leon wrote: On 1/13/2018 10:56 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 11:41:57 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:11:09 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. Here's an option that uses aluminum a slightly different manner. http://www.finewoodworking.com/2005/...ith-the-router I've used this method also but I couldn't get it to work as well. I can't remember exactly why but I had to make several passes to get it perfect. User operator error of some kind, I'm sure. Join the club! I'm sure I'm doing something wrong too. I can guarantee you that aluminum angle is not straight enough to form a glue line surface. It's only straight if it's attached to something straight. :-) I think in the article in the link, it's attached to a straight board and hopefully triple checked. I believe the aluminum is there to give the router bit bearing a hard, smooth surface to reference. But why does the bearing need a surface harder than a board. It's not very sharp. ;-) I think it's to protect it from betting bumped or nicked up. I used hard maple on my dado jig because the surfaces are always protected by the opposing sides. Aluminum doesn't dent? I'd go for the maple (or perhaps white oak) for a long-term use jig, too. |
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#67
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
DerbyDad03 wrote in news:79638a7b-5870-4e5c-a4f7-
: I don't have a jointer (obviously) but how can a light pass cause the board to taper? Whether jointing on a router table or on a jointer, aren't you taking off the same amount of wood along the entire length of the board? Not necessarily, no -- and that's what can produce a taper. |
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#68
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 17:03:19 -0500, wrote:
Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. Try it with glass. With the proper glue no problem. |
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#69
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 18:31:26 -0600, Markem
wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 17:03:19 -0500, wrote: Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. Try it with glass. With the proper glue no problem. A book anybody who _thinks_ they know anything about glue should read: https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Adhesive-Bonding-Reprint-Hardcover/dp/B011MEVDB2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1515977968&sr=8-3&keywords=handbook+of+adhesive+bonding+cagle If you're not a chemist you're probably going to find out that everything you _think_ you know is wrong. |
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#70
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/18 5:54 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 16:28:13 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 4:03 PM, wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:44:52 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 11:02 AM, Leon wrote: My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. Yeah, there are a lot of old wives' tales in woodworking and those are three of them. Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. Try it with glass. Does the bottle state the product works on glass? Don't look, I'll tell you. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't because it needs a mechanical connection to the surface. That requires a texture, much as they tell you to rough up gloss paint before repainting (after cure). The glass comparison is totally irrelevant. The glue doesn't work on many many things, but that in no way supports your "smooth surface" theory. No, it really isn't. Paint isn't glue and not all "mechanical" connections are the same. I don't think you truly understand how wood glue bonds. In any case, I think we may closer to being on the same page than we think. I believe you are correct when you say a surface can be "too smooth." When I was at a home show, some years back, I spoke at length to a representative of Franklin Adhesives who was also a chemical engineer who worked in adhesive development for years until retiring to be a rep at these home shows. It was another time that this subject had come up and I asked him about it. He said it was almost impossible to get a wood surface too smooth to adhere well with glues, using most woodworking power tools. He did say that the surface could be "burnished" to the point that would weaken the joint somewhat, but it would still be strong enough for most glue joints. He added that he knew of no woodworking power tools that would yield this kind of surface. He then when on to say, "If you are ever in doubt, all you have to do is put a drop of water on the surface of the wood. If it soaks in, it's fine. If it beads up and sits on the surface, then hit it with some 220 grit and glue it up." -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com |
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#71
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/18 5:55 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 16:25:46 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 4:02 PM, wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 11:02:00 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 1/13/2018 9:43 PM, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 9:06:05 PM UTC-6, wrote: On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump. https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/ See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips? It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process: 1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square 2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence 2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade. 3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks. Nope. No saw marks needed. See 2a (above). My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. I don't think the issue is tooth marks (there shouldn't be any). The issue is the "polished surface". The glue has to have something to bite into. A polished surface doesn't work. Try using Titebond on glass. That is simply not true and a completely apples to oranges... well, no, actually a wood to glass comparison. Yes, it is. It's just an order of magnitude or so different. It's still a mechanical connection. It's not like a plastic glue, where it's more of a weld. There we have it. Plastic glue is a solvent, not a glue. :-p -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com |
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#72
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/18 5:58 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 16:30:15 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 4:07 PM, wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:48:33 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 11:22 AM, Leon wrote: On 1/13/2018 10:56 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 11:41:57 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:11:09 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote: On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote: I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed fence. I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement. Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the problem? Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up? I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose. Best of luck. Here's an option that uses aluminum a slightly different manner. http://www.finewoodworking.com/2005/...ith-the-router I've used this method also but I couldn't get it to work as well. I can't remember exactly why but I had to make several passes to get it perfect. User operator error of some kind, I'm sure. Join the club! I'm sure I'm doing something wrong too. I can guarantee you that aluminum angle is not straight enough to form a glue line surface. It's only straight if it's attached to something straight. :-) I think in the article in the link, it's attached to a straight board and hopefully triple checked. I believe the aluminum is there to give the router bit bearing a hard, smooth surface to reference. But why does the bearing need a surface harder than a board. It's not very sharp. ;-) I think it's to protect it from betting bumped or nicked up. I used hard maple on my dado jig because the surfaces are always protected by the opposing sides. Aluminum doesn't dent? I'd go for the maple (or perhaps white oak) for a long-term use jig, too. I never said nor implied that it doesn't dent. I'm guessing it's harder and more stable than oak. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com |
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#73
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/18 6:31 PM, Markem wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 17:03:19 -0500, wrote: Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. Try it with glass. With the proper glue no problem. All still irrelevant since the context of this discussion if a wood/PVA glue bond. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com |
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#74
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 6:53:14 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:27:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 5:03:30 PM UTC-5, wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:44:52 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 11:02 AM, Leon wrote: My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. Yeah, there are a lot of old wives' tales in woodworking and those are three of them. Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. Try it with glass. Apples and Gorillas No, it really isn't. It's a mechanical connection. OK, let's stop arguing about stuff that doesn't matter to this thread and get back to the actual issue. Bottom line: Are you saying that the surfaces created by a straight router bit on the edges of two 1 x poplar boards is too smooth for Titebond III to perform its designed task? |
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#75
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/18 8:22 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 6:53:14 PM UTC-5, wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:27:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 5:03:30 PM UTC-5, wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:44:52 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 11:02 AM, Leon wrote: My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. Yeah, there are a lot of old wives' tales in woodworking and those are three of them. Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. Try it with glass. Apples and Gorillas No, it really isn't. It's a mechanical connection. OK, let's stop arguing about stuff that doesn't matter to this thread and get back to the actual issue. Bottom line: Are you saying that the surfaces created by a straight router bit on the edges of two 1 x poplar boards is too smooth for Titebond III to perform its designed task? I don't know what he's saying, but I'll say no. Some advice, though. You'd be amazed at how much smoother (smaller "bumps") a surface you get with a larger diameter bit at a higher speed and slower feed rate with the stock. I suppose someone could do the math, but I'm sure you can picture that the larger the diameter of the cutter head, the larger the radius of the cut, meaning fewer and smoother "bumps." In ANY case! Many times, when using a jointer (JOINER!, nor wait! JOINTER! No, no, it's joinyerterner!) or router, I am often in the habit of "planing" the edge surfaces with light passes of 100-120 grit with a hard surface sanding pad (block of wood) if I'm dissatisfied with the smoothness of the surface. I RARELY do that when said surfaces are to be glued together. And have never done so when using the table saw and rip blade to prep the boards to be glued together. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com |
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#76
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 9:41:58 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/14/18 8:22 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 6:53:14 PM UTC-5, wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:27:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 5:03:30 PM UTC-5, wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:44:52 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 11:02 AM, Leon wrote: My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. Yeah, there are a lot of old wives' tales in woodworking and those are three of them. Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. Try it with glass. Apples and Gorillas No, it really isn't. It's a mechanical connection. OK, let's stop arguing about stuff that doesn't matter to this thread and get back to the actual issue. Bottom line: Are you saying that the surfaces created by a straight router bit on the edges of two 1 x poplar boards is too smooth for Titebond III to perform its designed task? I don't know what he's saying, but I'll say no. Some advice, though. You'd be amazed at how much smoother (smaller "bumps") a surface you get with a larger diameter bit at a higher speed and slower feed rate with the stock. I suppose someone could do the math, but I'm sure you can picture that the larger the diameter of the cutter head, the larger the radius of the cut, meaning fewer and smoother "bumps." In ANY case! Many times, when using a jointer (JOINER!, nor wait! JOINTER! No, no, it's joinyerterner!) or router, I am often in the habit of "planing" the edge surfaces with light passes of 100-120 grit with a hard surface sanding pad (block of wood) if I'm dissatisfied with the smoothness of the surface. I RARELY do that when said surfaces are to be glued together. And have never done so when using the table saw and rip blade to prep the boards to be glued together. I'm making 2 panels from 1 x stock. Each will have 2 seams. Each will see more or less the same use/abuse since they will both be used as tops for the base cabinets for the bookcase project. (similar to yours) I already glued up one panel with boards jointed with a 24 tooth rip blade. I then figured out what I was doing wrong with my hands and jointed 3 other boards with a 1/2" straight bit on my router table. I'll be gluing up that panel tomorrow. I will mark the underside of each panel as to the jointing method used. I will do my best to remember to revive this thread if either of the panels fail during my lifetime. By that time I'll probably be able to post a hologram version of the failed joint image that I'll create with the MRI machine that I'll build with my 3D printer array. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic |
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#77
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 6:22:14 PM UTC-8, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Bottom line: Are you saying that the surfaces created by a straight router bit on the edges of two 1 x poplar boards is too smooth for Titebond III to perform its designed task? Yes, there may be something to that. A blunt (carbide) bit both cuts and slightly crushes the wood as it passes. That crushing closes the ends of the wood fiber, and makes glues less effective. For high quality veneering (and plywood) the surface quality from an acute (low-angle) plane, or from light sanding, is preferred for glue bond. D-day gliders, manufactured in quantity, were all sandpapered before assembly and glue-up. Titebond recommends acetone wipe for oily woods, and " A good bonding surface can also be achieved by sanding or planing the wood just before gluing the joints." but there's no harm applying the same advice to poplar. |
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#78
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/18 9:16 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 9:41:58 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 8:22 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 6:53:14 PM UTC-5, wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:27:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote: On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 5:03:30 PM UTC-5, wrote: On Sun, 14 Jan 2018 12:44:52 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 1/14/18 11:02 AM, Leon wrote: My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge that is buttery smooth. Not the best for a glue up. I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping. There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the joint. Tooth marks create gaps. Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost invisible. Yeah, there are a lot of old wives' tales in woodworking and those are three of them. Glue doesn't "bite" and holds perfectly fine to "buttery smooth" surface. Try it with glass. Apples and Gorillas No, it really isn't. It's a mechanical connection. OK, let's stop arguing about stuff that doesn't matter to this thread and get back to the actual issue. Bottom line: Are you saying that the surfaces created by a straight router bit on the edges of two 1 x poplar boards is too smooth for Titebond III to perform its designed task? I don't know what he's saying, but I'll say no. Some advice, though. You'd be amazed at how much smoother (smaller "bumps") a surface you get with a larger diameter bit at a higher speed and slower feed rate with the stock. I suppose someone could do the math, but I'm sure you can picture that the larger the diameter of the cutter head, the larger the radius of the cut, meaning fewer and smoother "bumps." In ANY case! Many times, when using a jointer (JOINER!, nor wait! JOINTER! No, no, it's joinyerterner!) or router, I am often in the habit of "planing" the edge surfaces with light passes of 100-120 grit with a hard surface sanding pad (block of wood) if I'm dissatisfied with the smoothness of the surface. I RARELY do that when said surfaces are to be glued together. And have never done so when using the table saw and rip blade to prep the boards to be glued together. I'm making 2 panels from 1 x stock. Each will have 2 seams. Each will see more or less the same use/abuse since they will both be used as tops for the base cabinets for the bookcase project. (similar to yours) I already glued up one panel with boards jointed with a 24 tooth rip blade. I then figured out what I was doing wrong with my hands and jointed 3 other boards with a 1/2" straight bit on my router table. I'll be gluing up that panel tomorrow. I will mark the underside of each panel as to the jointing method used. I will do my best to remember to revive this thread if either of the panels fail during my lifetime. By that time I'll probably be able to post a hologram version of the failed joint image that I'll create with the MRI machine that I'll build with my 3D printer array. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic Haha! Please don't pay too much attention to the people trying to make rocket surgery out of this. IIRC, you were joining two 9" wide boards to make 18", correct? If I were worried about anything, I would be worried about cupping on those panels. I would rather join four 4.5" boards than two 9" ones. If I have the exact dimension wrong, forgive me, but I'm sure there's something out in google land that tell the maximum width for sub-panels in a wide panel glue-up. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com |
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#79
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On 1/14/18 9:50 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
IIRC, you were joining two 9" wide boards to make 18", correct? If I were worried about anything, I would be worried about cupping on those panels. I would rather join four 4.5" boards than two 9" ones. If I have the exact dimension wrong, forgive me, but I'm sure there's something out in google land that tell the maximum width for sub-panels in a wide panel glue-up. Also keep in mind that this maximum width will change depending on the grain orientation of the wood. I've seen solid, single plank panels, 20+ inches wide that were dead flat after 50 years. They just happened to be made from 1/4" sawn stock that must've been from some seriously old-growth threes. You have to have 4ft logs to get that kind of width with 1/4 sawn boards. :-) -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com |
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#80
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Jointing On A Router Table - Can't Keep Even Pressure
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 10:35:01 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 6:22:14 PM UTC-8, DerbyDad03 wrote: Bottom line: Are you saying that the surfaces created by a straight router bit on the edges of two 1 x poplar boards is too smooth for Titebond III to perform its designed task?f Yes, there may be something to that. A blunt (carbide) bit both cuts and slightly crushes the wood as it passes. That crushing closes the ends of the wood fiber, and makes glues less effective. In my case, it's a brand new Whiteside bit. Right out the case and into the "jointer"/router. For high quality veneering (and plywood) the surface quality from an acute (low-angle) plane, or from light sanding, is preferred for glue bond. D-day gliders, manufactured in quantity, were all sandpapered before assembly and glue-up. Titebond recommends acetone wipe for oily woods, and " A good bonding surface can also be achieved by sanding or planing the wood just before gluing the joints." but there's no harm applying the same advice to poplar. They also say, regarding oily woods (which I don't believe poplar to be): "For either type of wood, planing, jointing, or sanding shortly before bonding will remove the contaminating layer and allow successful bonding." The use of acetone says "otherwise" meaning if not jointed shortly before bonding. I'm sure my router jointed edges are going to be just fine. |
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