I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:

At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the
jointed edge.

Bumps, not indents. Can you sand the bumps off? I'm aware you prefer to get the best results using the router, but sanding may be your last resort. Unless someone has a resolution to your issue.

I'm suspecting your fences are not in line, on the same plane, parallel.... hence the "wobble" in the motion of the run through the cutter, i.e., it's not the movement of your hands or hands' position. Mis-aligned fences would make the ends of your finished (erred) cut be out of line with the rest of the length of the board/edge, despite any bumps, i.e., even if you sand them down. Does that make sense?

Sonny

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 4:14:12 PM UTC-6, Sonny wrote:


I'm suspecting your fences are not in line, on the same plane, parallel.... hence the "wobble" in the motion of the run through the cutter, i.e., it's not the movement of your hands or hands' position.

There's a technique for making a curved edge (an arch), using the jointer: Lower the outfeed table, hence, you get an arced/arched edge. This seems to be similar to what you are experiencing, but you are blaming it on your hand-movement positions.

Check that your fences are coplanar.

Sonny

On 1/13/2018 4:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have not joined on a router, but frequently use the router to create
profiles on picture frames. I have found that I get the best results
using feather boards on the in fed and out feed ends of the router.
This then keeps the piece firmly against the fence on both sides to the
bit for the length of the piece. With the fence I only have to keep the
piece flat against the table, which I fine easier that trying to keep it
against the fence and the table. Without the feather board I find the I
tend to get waves in the route.

The router table is a Sears router table to which I attache a standard
router. The fence is only about 18". I use a one piece fence with an
opening for the bit. I have had good results using this technique with
frames as long as 40 inches.

I suspect that the same technique may work when joining.

--
2017: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:14:12 PM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:

At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the
jointed edge.

Bumps, not indents. Can you sand the bumps off? I'm aware you prefer to get the best results using the router, but sanding may be your last resort. Unless someone has a resolution to your issue.

I'm suspecting your fences are not in line, on the same plane, parallel..... hence the "wobble" in the motion of the run through the cutter, i.e., it's not the movement of your hands or hands' position. Mis-aligned fences would make the ends of your finished (erred) cut be out of line with the rest of the length of the board/edge, despite any bumps, i.e., even if you sand them down. Does that make sense?

Sonny

Either I'm not understanding what you are saying or you misunderstand me.
Not arguing, just trying to clarify.

Here's my side of it...let me know if I'm missing what you are saying.

When jointing on a router table, the fences are *supposed* to be mis-aligned.
The out-feed fence is supposed to be about 1/16" closer to the operator than
the in-feed fence. The bit is then aligned flush with the face of the out-feed
fence. With pressure kept on the out-feed table, you are supposed to
get an edge that is flat and perfect square with the face of the board,
just like on a jointer.

My problem is that I am not able to keep consistent pressure on the
out-feed fence as I reposition my hands. I get the bump shown below because
board is moving away from the bit just a little, therefore less than 1/16"
of wood is being removed until my hands are back in place applying pressure
against the fence.

https://i.imgur.com/hjSOHrP.jpg

While sanding or planing is a possible solution, there is always the danger
of taking off just a little to much and causing a gap. From what I've read
or watched, this method is supposed to work, so ether it's my technique
or my equipment.

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:55:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 1/13/2018 4:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have not joined on a router, but frequently use the router to create
profiles on picture frames. I have found that I get the best results
using feather boards on the in fed and out feed ends of the router.
This then keeps the piece firmly against the fence on both sides to the
bit for the length of the piece. With the fence I only have to keep the
piece flat against the table, which I fine easier that trying to keep it
against the fence and the table. Without the feather board I find the I
tend to get waves in the route.

The router table is a Sears router table to which I attache a standard
router. The fence is only about 18". I use a one piece fence with an
opening for the bit. I have had good results using this technique with
frames as long as 40 inches.

I suspect that the same technique may work when joining.


Just FYI...It's jointing, not joining.

When jointing on a router table, you don't want pressure on the in-feed
fence. All pressure should be on the out-feed fence which is supposed
to be proud of the in-feed fence and flush with the cutting surface of
the bit. See he

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router
table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence
may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just
a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump.

https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/

See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router
table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence
may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just
a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump.

https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/

See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips?

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router
table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence
may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just
a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump.

https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/

See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips?

It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process:

1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square
2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence
3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks.

My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge
that is buttery smooth.

On 1/13/2018 3:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?


The fence offset MUST ABSOLUTELY BE SET EXACTLY to the the depth of the
cut. Apply pressure to the in feed side until you have enough on the
out feed side that you can finish the pass.

I can tell you how to do this on your TS, if you have a TS, and a scrap
piece of plywood that is 3+' long.

On 1/13/2018 5:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:55:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 1/13/2018 4:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have not joined on a router, but frequently use the router to create
profiles on picture frames. I have found that I get the best results
using feather boards on the in fed and out feed ends of the router.
This then keeps the piece firmly against the fence on both sides to the
bit for the length of the piece. With the fence I only have to keep the
piece flat against the table, which I fine easier that trying to keep it
against the fence and the table. Without the feather board I find the I
tend to get waves in the route.

The router table is a Sears router table to which I attache a standard
router. The fence is only about 18". I use a one piece fence with an
opening for the bit. I have had good results using this technique with
frames as long as 40 inches.

I suspect that the same technique may work when joining.


Just FYI...It's jointing, not joining.

I think it is joining.


When jointing on a router table, you don't want pressure on the in-feed
fence.

Well, yes you do, until you have enough on the out feed side to apply
pressure to and not both at the same time.


All pressure should be on the out-feed fence which is supposed
to be proud of the in-feed fence and flush with the cutting surface of
the bit. See he

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo


He acknowledges my comment above, pressure on the in feed to begin.

On 1/13/2018 6:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router
table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence
may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just
a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump.

https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/

See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips?

It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process:

1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square

yes

2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence

yes

3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks.


NO! This introduces error, the same you are having problems with. If
you have tooth marks you need to set you saw up better and or be using a
better blade. Joining the opposite side after the rip can cause the
board to taper.

My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge
that is buttery smooth.

On 1/13/2018 6:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My problem is that I am not able to keep consistent pressure on the
out-feed fence as I reposition my hands. I get the bump shown below because
board is moving away from the bit just a little, therefore less than 1/16"
of wood is being removed until my hands are back in place applying pressure
against the fence.

https://i.imgur.com/hjSOHrP.jpg

While sanding or planing is a possible solution, there is always the danger
of taking off just a little to much and causing a gap. From what I've read
or watched, this method is supposed to work, so ether it's my technique
or my equipment.
As I said above this is precisely the problem that I was having when
routing the profiles on picture frames. While manually holding the
piece, the piece would tend to wiggle near the end of the piece or when
I readjusted my hands.

The use of in fed and out fed feather board prevented this wiggle. The
feather boards do not need to place a lot of pressure on the piece just
enough to hold it firmly against the fence.

--
2017: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:38:29 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/13/2018 5:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:55:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 1/13/2018 4:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have not joined on a router, but frequently use the router to create
profiles on picture frames. I have found that I get the best results
using feather boards on the in fed and out feed ends of the router.
This then keeps the piece firmly against the fence on both sides to the
bit for the length of the piece. With the fence I only have to keep the
piece flat against the table, which I fine easier that trying to keep it
against the fence and the table. Without the feather board I find the I
tend to get waves in the route.

The router table is a Sears router table to which I attache a standard
router. The fence is only about 18". I use a one piece fence with an
opening for the bit. I have had good results using this technique with
frames as long as 40 inches.

I suspect that the same technique may work when joining.


Just FYI...It's jointing, not joining.

I think it is joining.

I'm pretty sure it's jointing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jointer
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...?cat=1&p=41801




When jointing on a router table, you don't want pressure on the in-feed
fence.

Well, yes you do, until you have enough on the out feed side to apply
pressure to and not both at the same time.

Right. My problem is that with a 36" board, there is more time spent on
the out-feed side than the in-feed side. What is your definition of "enough"
on the out feed side? If I switch to putting pressure on the out-feed fence
after 12" or even 18" I still have to move my hands at least once or I'll
run out of fence or table from a "hand position" perspective. That's when
my bump occurs.

https://i.imgur.com/hjSOHrP.jpg



All pressure should be on the out-feed fence which is supposed
to be proud of the in-feed fence and flush with the cutting surface of
the bit. See he

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo


He acknowledges my comment above, pressure on the in feed to begin.

No argument there. I'll agree that I wasn't clear when I talked about
"no pressure on the in-feed fence". Obviously, you need pressure on the
in_feed fence at the start of the feed.

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:41:56 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/13/2018 6:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router
table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence
may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just
a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump.

https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/

See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips?

It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process:

1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square

yes

2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence

yes

3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks.


NO! This introduces error, the same you are having problems with.

While the second pass may not be needed (more on that later) I don't see the
connection between the second jointing pass and my problem. My problem is
a pressure related problem that has nothing to do with a second pass. There
doesn't even need to be table saw in the room for my problem to occur. ;-)
I'm not even getting past Step 1.

If
you have tooth marks you need to set you saw up better and or be using a
better blade. Joining the opposite side after the rip can cause the
board to taper.


They talk about a very light pass in this thread:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/ed...-board-126194/

I don't have a jointer (obviously) but how can a light pass cause the
board to taper? Whether jointing on a router table or on a jointer, aren't
you taking off the same amount of wood along the entire length of the board?

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:32:36 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/13/2018 3:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?


The fence offset MUST ABSOLUTELY BE SET EXACTLY to the the depth of the
cut.

Yes, the out-feed fence is flush with the cutting surface of the bit.

Apply pressure to the in feed side until you have enough on the
out feed side that you can finish the pass.

Yes, but my problem is on the out-feed side. While working on the
out-feed side, any, *any* let-up in pressure against the fence causes the
bump.


I can tell you how to do this on your TS, if you have a TS, and a scrap
piece of plywood that is 3+' long.

Thanks, but I am aware of that method.

On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router
table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence
may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just
a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump.

https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/

See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips?

It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process:

1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square
2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence

2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade.

3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks.

Nope. No saw marks needed. See 2a (above).

My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge
that is buttery smooth.

Not the best for a glue up.

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 9:06:05 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router
table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence
may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just
a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump.

https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/

See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips?

It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process:

1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square
2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence

2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade.

3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks.

Nope. No saw marks needed. See 2a (above).

My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge
that is buttery smooth.

Not the best for a glue up.

I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping.

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:06:05 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router
table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence
may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just
a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump.

https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/

See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips?

It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process:

1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square
2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence

2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade.

3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks.

Nope. No saw marks needed. See 2a (above).

My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge
that is buttery smooth.

Not the best for a glue up.

So you're saying that jointing with a router should be avoided?

Why are there so many articles and videos from so many sources detailing the technique?

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

Here's an option that uses aluminum a slightly different manner.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/2005/...ith-the-router

On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 20:05:06 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:06:05 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router
table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence
may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just
a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump.

https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/

See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips?

It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process:

1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square
2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence

2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade.

3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks.

Nope. No saw marks needed. See 2a (above).

My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge
that is buttery smooth.

Not the best for a glue up.

So you're saying that jointing with a router should be avoided?

No, just that a table saw, properly set up, is good enough.

Why are there so many articles and videos from so many sources detailing the technique?

I have no idea. Maybe because if all you have a hammer, the entire
world looks like a screw?

However, the point I was trying to make was that a glass-like surface
may not be best for a (wood) glue joint.

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 11:15:50 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 20:05:06 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:06:05 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router
table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence
may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just
a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump.

https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/

See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips?

It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process:

1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square
2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence

2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade.

3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks.

Nope. No saw marks needed. See 2a (above).

My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge
that is buttery smooth.

Not the best for a glue up.

So you're saying that jointing with a router should be avoided?

No, just that a table saw, properly set up, is good enough.

Why are there so many articles and videos from so many sources detailing the technique?

I have no idea. Maybe because if all you have a hammer, the entire
world looks like a screw?

In many cases I'd agree with that, but that seems a stretch in this instance. Too many
sources and nary a single detractor that I know of.

However, the point I was trying to make was that a glass-like surface
may not be best for a (wood) glue joint.

I'll let you know. ;-)

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:11:09 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

Here's an option that uses aluminum a slightly different manner.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/2005/...ith-the-router

I've used this method also but I couldn't get it to work as well. I can't remember exactly why but I had to make several passes to get it perfect. User operator error of some kind, I'm sure.

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 11:41:57 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:11:09 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

Here's an option that uses aluminum a slightly different manner.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/2005/...ith-the-router

I've used this method also but I couldn't get it to work as well. I can't remember exactly why but I had to make several passes to get it perfect. User operator error of some kind, I'm sure.

Join the club! I'm sure I'm doing something wrong too.

On 1/13/18 10:15 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 20:05:06 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:06:05 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael
wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03
wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael
wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6,
DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router
table so I can glue up a panel. Each piece is 36" long.
I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of the in-feed
fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on
the out-feed fence but I can't seem to keep even
pressure as I move the board along. At 36" long I have
to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the
jointed edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the
table on the out-feed side, but I'm still getting 2-3
bumps on the jointed edge because of hand movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push
paddles for the entire 36". Is that part of the
problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a
gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight
edge to the top of the board and running a router along
the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to
try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

That is an option and may be my next step. However,
jointing on a router table is fairly common. I suspect my
long boards relative to the fence may be the issue. I'm
fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just a little
less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump.

https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/

See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router
table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw
rips?

It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this
process:

1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square 2 -
Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against
the fence

2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade.

3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw
marks.

Nope. No saw marks needed. See 2a (above).

My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table
leaves a edge that is buttery smooth.

Not the best for a glue up.

So you're saying that jointing with a router should be avoided?

No, just that a table saw, properly set up, is good enough.

Why are there so many articles and videos from so many sources
detailing the technique?

I have no idea. Maybe because if all you have a hammer, the entire
world looks like a screw?

However, the point I was trying to make was that a glass-like
surface may not be best for a (wood) glue joint.


There are so many articles because people don't have decent table saws
nor blades.
He's right. A great rip blade and properly tuned table saw are all you
need.

I don't agree with the comment about glass-like surface however.
The glue doesn't know the difference.

I used to do a LOT of stuff with my router until I got a good table saw
and blades.
About the only thing I do with the router, now, are curved profiles.

A good rip blade leaves a much smoother surface than a jointer.
The rotation of the TB blade is running parallel to the joint, while the
router and jointer blades are rotations are running perpendicular to it.
You will always have some bumping, no matter how small, with that
orientation.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:31:12 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:


When jointing on a router table, the fences are *supposed* to be mis-aligned.

Correct!

The out-feed fence is supposed to be about 1/16" closer to the operator than
the in-feed fence.

Correct!

The bit is then aligned flush with the face of the out-feed
fence.

Correct!

I'm suspecting the two fences, outfeed and infeed, are not parallel, despite their being offset. They are not exactly coplanar. They need to be offset and they also need to be perfectly coplanar.

I suspect your hand movement is giving you a misjudged idea of why you are having the bump. It's not your hand movement that's the (main, if at all) problem. Check to make sure your fences are coplanar, despite their being offset.

Sonny

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 11:54:31 PM UTC-6, Sonny wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:31:12 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:


When jointing on a router table, the fences are *supposed* to be mis-aligned.

Correct!

The out-feed fence is supposed to be about 1/16" closer to the operator than
the in-feed fence.

Correct!

The bit is then aligned flush with the face of the out-feed
fence.

Correct!

I'm suspecting the two fences, outfeed and infeed, are not parallel, despite their being offset. They are not exactly coplanar. They need to be offset and they also need to be perfectly coplanar.

I suspect your hand movement is giving you a misjudged idea of why you are having the bump. It's not your hand movement that's the (main, if at all) problem. Check to make sure your fences are coplanar, despite their being offset.

Sonny

As to a dedicated jointer, both infeed and outfeed tables are normally parallel to one another. They need to be perfectly parallel. They are also offset, depending on how much wood thickness one wants to remove, and the infeed table is lowered by that much.

With the outfeed table lowered well below the infeed table (and cutter head), one can purposely joint an arch, along the edge. In this case, the tables still remain coplanar.

The arch can also be done if the back end of the outfeed table is lowered relative to the front end, i.e., angled, hence, the two tables are no longer coplanar, since the outfeed has been angled. This technique is rarely used, except for larger than "normal" arches, because it's sometimes difficult to realign the table, perfectly parallel, to the infeed table. Once set, one should not mess with the alignment (coplanar) of the tables.

Again, check that your fences are coplanar, despite their being offset. Whatever straight edge you use for this gauging, double check that its edge is, in fact, straight. ....and the offset is what it's suppose to be all along the whole length of the outfeed fence, relative to the infeed fence. Relative to the infeed fence, if the offset is not the same all along the full length of the outfeed fence, then your fences are not coplanar.

Sonny

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:38:29 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/13/2018 5:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:55:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 1/13/2018 4:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have not joined on a router, but frequently use the router to create
profiles on picture frames. I have found that I get the best results
using feather boards on the in fed and out feed ends of the router.
This then keeps the piece firmly against the fence on both sides to the
bit for the length of the piece. With the fence I only have to keep the
piece flat against the table, which I fine easier that trying to keep it
against the fence and the table. Without the feather board I find the I
tend to get waves in the route.

The router table is a Sears router table to which I attache a standard
router. The fence is only about 18". I use a one piece fence with an
opening for the bit. I have had good results using this technique with
frames as long as 40 inches.

I suspect that the same technique may work when joining.


Just FYI...It's jointing, not joining.

I think it is joining.

I'm pretty sure it's jointing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jointer
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...?cat=1&p=41801



No, it us a little confusing. A jointer is a machine, what Lee Valley is
selling. The apparatus. To prepaid and join., is joining. :-)





When jointing on a router table, you don't want pressure on the in-feed
fence.

Well, yes you do, until you have enough on the out feed side to apply
pressure to and not both at the same time.

Right. My problem is that with a 36" board, there is more time spent on
the out-feed side than the in-feed side. What is your definition of "enough"
on the out feed side? If I switch to putting pressure on the out-feed fence
after 12" or even 18" I still have to move my hands at least once or I'll
run out of fence or table from a "hand position" perspective. That's when
my bump occurs.

https://i.imgur.com/hjSOHrP.jpg



All pressure should be on the out-feed fence which is supposed
to be proud of the in-feed fence and flush with the cutting surface of
the bit. See he

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo


He acknowledges my comment above, pressure on the in feed to begin.

No argument there. I'll agree that I wasn't clear when I talked about
"no pressure on the in-feed fence". Obviously, you need pressure on the
in_feed fence at the start of the feed.


It's hard enough on a small jointer. Settings have to be perfect. And as
with most anything where you provide the fed rate an inconsistent feed
rate results is an inconsistent result. Practice eventually makes perfect.

My hat is off to you for giving this a try but, as you now see, this is not
as easy as it appears.

You're not taking a big bite out of the wood. I can't imagine that your hand control is not adequate for stable/controlled cutting. If the coplanar hypothesis is not the problem, then the only other things I can think of is a dull bit or it's turning in the wrong direction.

Sonny

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:41:56 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/13/2018 6:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the
top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish
bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router
table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence
may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just
a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump.

https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/

See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips?

It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process:

1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square

yes

2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence

yes

3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks.


NO! This introduces error, the same you are having problems with.

While the second pass may not be needed (more on that later) I don't see the
connection between the second jointing pass and my problem. My problem is
a pressure related problem that has nothing to do with a second pass. There
doesn't even need to be table saw in the room for my problem to occur. ;-)
I'm not even getting past Step 1.

Thanks for not making me explain that. :-). Inconsistent feed results in
inconsistent results. :-). Welcome to the AR club. :-)

Theoretically the router table and fence can do what you want to happen.
But every thing has to be perfect. And something, including possibly your
inexperience is affecting your out come. This will is a relatively
difficult task, it is not something you just do perfectly right off the
bat. Practice, practice, practice. Or use tour TS to get your straight
edge.





If
you have tooth marks you need to set you saw up better and or be using a
better blade. Joining the opposite side after the rip can cause the
board to taper.


They talk about a very light pass in this thread:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/ed...-board-126194/

I don't have a jointer (obviously) but how can a light pass cause the
board to taper? Whether jointing on a router table or on a jointer, aren't
you taking off the same amount of wood along the entire length of the board?


A TS And a surface planer both have fixed indexing surfaces. Your hands
are not a fixed surface. The rip fence on your TS and the table on a
planer are hard fixed reference surfaces. Those surfaces are a hard fixed
surface opposite the cutter. Your hands don't come close to providing an
absolute fixed surface opposite the cutter on a jointer or router bit. To
be accurate you have to remove variables. Your hand feed rate is a
constant variable.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:32:36 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/13/2018 3:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?


The fence offset MUST ABSOLUTELY BE SET EXACTLY to the the depth of the
cut.

Yes, the out-feed fence is flush with the cutting surface of the bit.

Apply pressure to the in feed side until you have enough on the
out feed side that you can finish the pass.

Yes, but my problem is on the out-feed side. While working on the
out-feed side, any, *any* let-up in pressure against the fence causes the
bump.

Yeah, even using a jointer is a learned talent. Using a router table
increases the difficulty because it does not compare to a jointer.
Theoretically you should be able to saw a board as accurately with a hand
saw as with a TS. See where I'm going here? :-). The less appropriate
the tool, the less you should expect.





I can tell you how to do this on your TS, if you have a TS, and a scrap
piece of plywood that is 3+' long.

Thanks, but I am aware of that method.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:38:29 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/13/2018 5:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:55:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 1/13/2018 4:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have not joined on a router, but frequently use the router to create
profiles on picture frames. I have found that I get the best results
using feather boards on the in fed and out feed ends of the router.
This then keeps the piece firmly against the fence on both sides to the
bit for the length of the piece. With the fence I only have to keep the
piece flat against the table, which I fine easier that trying to keep it
against the fence and the table. Without the feather board I find the I
tend to get waves in the route.

The router table is a Sears router table to which I attache a standard
router. The fence is only about 18". I use a one piece fence with an
opening for the bit. I have had good results using this technique with
frames as long as 40 inches.

I suspect that the same technique may work when joining.


Just FYI...It's jointing, not joining.

I think it is joining.

I'm pretty sure it's jointing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jointer
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...?cat=1&p=41801

The tool is jointer. The




When jointing on a router table, you don't want pressure on the in-feed
fence.

Well, yes you do, until you have enough on the out feed side to apply
pressure to and not both at the same time.

Right. My problem is that with a 36" board, there is more time spent on
the out-feed side than the in-feed side. What is your definition of "enough"
on the out feed side? If I switch to putting pressure on the out-feed fence
after 12" or even 18" I still have to move my hands at least once or I'll
run out of fence or table from a "hand position" perspective. That's when
my bump occurs.

https://i.imgur.com/hjSOHrP.jpg



All pressure should be on the out-feed fence which is supposed
to be proud of the in-feed fence and flush with the cutting surface of
the bit. See he

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo


He acknowledges my comment above, pressure on the in feed to begin.

No argument there. I'll agree that I wasn't clear when I talked about
"no pressure on the in-feed fence". Obviously, you need pressure on the
in_feed fence at the start of the feed.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:14:12 PM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:

At 36" long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the
jointed edge.

Bumps, not indents. Can you sand the bumps off? I'm aware you prefer to
get the best results using the router, but sanding may be your last
resort. Unless someone has a resolution to your issue.

I'm suspecting your fences are not in line, on the same plane,
parallel.... hence the "wobble" in the motion of the run through the
cutter, i.e., it's not the movement of your hands or hands' position.
Mis-aligned fences would make the ends of your finished (erred) cut be
out of line with the rest of the length of the board/edge, despite any
bumps, i.e., even if you sand them down. Does that make sense?

Sonny

Either I'm not understanding what you are saying or you misunderstand me.
Not arguing, just trying to clarify.

Here's my side of it...let me know if I'm missing what you are saying.

When jointing on a router table, the fences are *supposed* to be
mis-aligned.
The out-feed fence is supposed to be about 1/16" closer to the operator than
the in-feed fence.

Yes, fences are supposed to be mis-aligned but they are also supposed to be
parallel. Yours don't seem to be. Easiest way to set them...

1. Set both sides in line, slightly back of front edge of bit

2. Run a piece of wood through until you have at least a foot on the outfeed
side

3. Turn off router and close the gap between work piece and fence by moving
outfeed fence to work piece

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips?

It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process:

1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square
2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the
fence
3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks.

My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge
that is buttery smooth.

Except for the bumps

On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 12:54:31 AM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:31:12 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:


When jointing on a router table, the fences are *supposed* to be mis-aligned.

Correct!

The out-feed fence is supposed to be about 1/16" closer to the operator than
the in-feed fence.

Correct!

The bit is then aligned flush with the face of the out-feed
fence.

Correct!

I'm suspecting the two fences, outfeed and infeed, are not parallel, despite their being offset. They are not exactly coplanar. They need to be offset and they also need to be perfectly coplanar.



I suspect your hand movement is giving you a misjudged idea of why you are having the bump. It's not your hand movement that's the (main, if at all) problem. Check to make sure your fences are coplanar, despite their being offset.

Sonny, I'd love to agree with you here, but when I can hear the router change sounds
and see the wood move away from the fence as I shift my hands, and then see the bump
(or bumps) exactly where I expect them to be, I have to blame it on my hands.

Sometimes I get one if I am ever, so so careful and slow, others times I get 2 or 3, but they
are *always* positioned exactly where the wood is contacting the bit when my hands shift
position.


Sonny

On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 8:12:31 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips?

It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process:

1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square
2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the
fence
3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks.

My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge
that is buttery smooth.

Except for the bumps

I actually added that at the end of my post and then deleted it before
hitting send. :-)

On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 1:34:32 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:38:29 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/13/2018 5:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:55:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 1/13/2018 4:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have not joined on a router, but frequently use the router to create
profiles on picture frames. I have found that I get the best results
using feather boards on the in fed and out feed ends of the router.
This then keeps the piece firmly against the fence on both sides to the
bit for the length of the piece. With the fence I only have to keep the
piece flat against the table, which I fine easier that trying to keep it
against the fence and the table. Without the feather board I find the I
tend to get waves in the route.

The router table is a Sears router table to which I attache a standard
router. The fence is only about 18". I use a one piece fence with an
opening for the bit. I have had good results using this technique with
frames as long as 40 inches.

I suspect that the same technique may work when joining.


Just FYI...It's jointing, not joining.

I think it is joining.

I'm pretty sure it's jointing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jointer
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...?cat=1&p=41801



No, it us a little confusing. A jointer is a machine, what Lee Valley is
selling. The apparatus. To prepaid and join., is joining. :-)

By "prepaid", I assume you mean "prepare". If that's the case, I have to
respectfully disagree.

Maybe we aren't talking about the same thing or using the words in the
same context. I was responding to Keith's comments, which involve the
preparation step only.

First he said: "I have not joined on a router"

Then, after discusses his use of feathers boards on the in-feed and out-feed
side he said "I suspect that the same technique may work when joining."

Therefore he is talking about the preparation of the edges only. As far as
I can tell from everything I've read, the preparation step is called jointing.

From the same Veritas page:

"One of the great advantages of the Veritas router table fence is that it makes jointing easy." Jointing, as in the process, not the apparatus.

From (if you trust wikipedia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_jointing

Here they discuss both the preparation process (jointing), the apparatus
(jointer) and the subsequent operation of putting the components together
(joining).

"Edge jointing or just jointing is the process of making the edge of a wooden
board straight and true in preparation for subsequent operations, often
ultimately leading to joining two or more components together. Traditionally,
jointing was performed using a jointer plane. Modern techniques include the
use of a jointer machine, a hand held router and straight edge, or a table-
mounted router. Although the process derives its name from the primary task of
straightening an edge prior to joining, the term jointing is used whenever
this process is performed, regardless of the application."

From: http://www.finewoodworking.com/2014/...panel-glue-ups

The title of article and video is "Jointing Boards for Dead-Flat Panel
Glue-Ups"

I could go on. Everything I can find refers to the process of prepping the
board as jointing. Then you join them, creating a joint.

I am certainly willing to admit being wrong, but then so must be all the
sources that use the term jointing for the preparation process.

On 1/14/2018 9:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 1:34:32 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:38:29 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 1/13/2018 5:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:55:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 1/13/2018 4:10 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have not joined on a router, but frequently use the router to create
profiles on picture frames. I have found that I get the best results
using feather boards on the in fed and out feed ends of the router.
This then keeps the piece firmly against the fence on both sides to the
bit for the length of the piece. With the fence I only have to keep the
piece flat against the table, which I fine easier that trying to keep it
against the fence and the table. Without the feather board I find the I
tend to get waves in the route.

The router table is a Sears router table to which I attache a standard
router. The fence is only about 18". I use a one piece fence with an
opening for the bit. I have had good results using this technique with
frames as long as 40 inches.

I suspect that the same technique may work when joining.


Just FYI...It's jointing, not joining.

I think it is joining.

I'm pretty sure it's jointing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jointer
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...?cat=1&p=41801



No, it us a little confusing. A jointer is a machine, what Lee Valley is
selling. The apparatus. To prepaid and join., is joining. :-)

By "prepaid", I assume you mean "prepare". If that's the case, I have to
respectfully disagree.

Yes, prepare. And NP if you disagree.


Maybe we aren't talking about the same thing or using the words in the
same context. I was responding to Keith's comments, which involve the
preparation step only.

First he said: "I have not joined on a router"

Then, after discusses his use of feathers boards on the in-feed and out-feed
side he said "I suspect that the same technique may work when joining."

Therefore he is talking about the preparation of the edges only. As far as
I can tell from everything I've read, the preparation step is called jointing.

From the same Veritas page:

"One of the great advantages of the Veritas router table fence is that it makes jointing easy." Jointing, as in the process, not the apparatus.

From (if you trust wikipedia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_jointing

Here they discuss both the preparation process (jointing), the apparatus
(jointer) and the subsequent operation of putting the components together
(joining).

"Edge jointing or just jointing is the process of making the edge of a wooden
board straight and true in preparation for subsequent operations, often
ultimately leading to joining two or more components together. Traditionally,
jointing was performed using a jointer plane. Modern techniques include the
use of a jointer machine, a hand held router and straight edge, or a table-
mounted router. Although the process derives its name from the primary task of
straightening an edge prior to joining, the term jointing is used whenever
this process is performed, regardless of the application."

From: http://www.finewoodworking.com/2014/...panel-glue-ups

The title of article and video is "Jointing Boards for Dead-Flat Panel
Glue-Ups"

I could go on. Everything I can find refers to the process of prepping the
board as jointing. Then you join them, creating a joint.

I am certainly willing to admit being wrong, but then so must be all the
sources that use the term jointing for the preparation process.


FWIW I used to call it jointing long ago....

But, https://www.festoolusa.com/products/...joining-system

We can leave it there. ;~)

On 1/13/2018 9:43 PM, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 9:06:05 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:21:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 5:42:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm trying to joint some 1 x 8 poplar on my router table so I can glue up
a panel. Each piece is 36" long. I have the out-feed fence 1/16" proud of
the in-feed fence.

I understand that you are supposed to keep pressure on the out-feed fence
but I can't seem to keep even pressure as I move the board along. At 36"
long I have to move my hands and when I do, I get a bump in the jointed
edge. I tried to clamp 2 feather boards to the table on the out-feed side,
but I'm still getting 2-3 bumps on the jointed edge because of hand
movement.

Neither fence nor the table is long enough to use push paddles for the
entire 36". Is that part of the problem?

Is there any way to get rid of the bumps so I can do a gap free glue-up?

I have had good results clamping an aluminum straight edge to the top of the board and running a router along the side with a longish bit. I don't think I'd want to try using the router table for this purpose.

Best of luck.

That is an option and may be my next step. However, jointing on a router
table is fairly common. I suspect my long boards relative to the fence
may be the issue. I'm fine most of the time, but all it takes is a just
a little less pressure on out-feed fence to cause the bump.

https://derbydad03.imgur.com/all/

See here for one of many vids on jointing with a router table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6nql7mlSOo

I am curious. Are you not able to glue from the table saw rips?

It is my understanding that the best glue-ups come via this process:

1 - Joint one edge to make it perfect straight and square
2 - Rip the board parallel on the TS with the jointed edge against the fence

2a - Make sure you've used your Glue Line Rip blade.

3 - Very lightly joint the ripped edge to remove any saw marks.

Nope. No saw marks needed. See 2a (above).

My table saw leaves a very clean edge, but my router table leaves a edge
that is buttery smooth.

Not the best for a glue up.

I wondered about that as well. A really smooth surface won't soak up the glue as well and you could squeeze out too much when clamping.


There is a lot of back and forth on this. Typical yellow/wood glue is
not a good gap filler and works best with a minimum of product in the
joint. Tooth marks create gaps.
Additionally there is a lot of back and forth talk on starving a joint
by squeezing glue out of it. Glue starvation as it is often called is
when there is no or not enough glue on the surface to begin with not
because you had squeeze out. You get squeeze out because there was too
much glue in the joint to begin with. If you don't get squeeze out you
have no indicator that the joint is tight. I have never had a joint
fail because of too much clamping pressure and causing too much glue to
squeeze out. Remember, a quality glue joint line is one that is almost
invisible.