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Old July 17th 17, 04:28 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Sharpening Stones

Lee Valley's doing free shipping, so I thought I'd take a look at their
offerings. I've got a set of their water slip stones that work nicely,
but I don't want to mess them up for some of the other things I've been
sharpening.

Arkansas stones seem appealing, as do water stones. What do you have
experience with and would recommend? I'll be near a Grizzly in a few
days as well, so if they've got something to look at I'll spend my Lee
Valley money on something else.

I intend to use the stones to handle general sharpening, but do my
chisels on the bench grinder. I might refine the edge on the stones. (If
you don't have a good tool rest you NEED one. It's a totally different
tool with a good tool rest!)

I also refine the edge of 1/4" HSS tool bits for the metal lathe. The
grinder also creates the primary cutting faces for this.

I've got a pocket knife and other assorted cutting tools. I understand
sickle blades are done with a curved stone, not the traditional flat
stone. (The slip stones did a good job. It didn't hurt when the stone
slippped and I sliced my finger.)

What about flattening the stone?

I really don't have any concerns about the primary sharpening, as most of
my primary sharpening and shaping takes place on the bench grinder (the
rest is THAT good.) Would a really fine stone be useful for something
like the metal lathe toolbits? (I know I'm a little off topic here, but
I've noticed a couple members mention their metalworking addiction.)

Before anyone asks, here's the link to the grinder rest:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049RD9YO/

There was a problem with one of them where nothing stayed tightened down
due to sliding surfaces. I used ordinary paper to provide some friction
and it worked great.

Puckdropper
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Old July 17th 17, 12:34 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Sharpening Stones


"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
b.com...
Lee Valley's doing free shipping, so I thought I'd take a look at their
offerings. I've got a set of their water slip stones that work nicely,
but I don't want to mess them up for some of the other things I've been
sharpening.

Arkansas stones seem appealing, as do water stones. What do you have
experience with and would recommend?


I've shaved with straight razors for 65 years, use Arkansas stones on them
if needed. I have never felt the need to use them on chisels, knives, etc.


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Old July 17th 17, 01:49 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Sharpening Stones

Arkansas stones seem appealing, as do water stones. What do you have
experience with and would recommend?


I quit using Arkansas and switched to diamond, ceramic and hones. I
use diamond if they are in bad shape or need to be reprofiled. I use
ceramic to put a better edge/angle on it. I hone on leather, cork or
sandpaper for razor sharpness. I have been seen honing on cardboard
when nothing else was at hand. On rare occasion, I still use an
Arkansas only if it's the only option I have on hand. I find ceramic
stones stay cleaner, flatter and are simpler to use. No oil, water or
mess and clean up with an old toothbrush or eraser.

I intend to use the stones to handle general sharpening, but do my
chisels on the bench grinder.


I've never used a bench grinder for sharpening. I do not like how much
material it takes off, the heat that builds, or the noise and mess.

I've got a pocket knife and other assorted cutting tools. I understand
sickle blades are done with a curved stone, not the traditional flat
stone. (The slip stones did a good job. It didn't hurt when the stone
slippped and I sliced my finger.)


I've used mostly flat stones of various sizes for the size of the
tool. For extremely large blades, I move a small stone along the
length. Yes, I have sharpened and restored swords.

For the few curved tools I own, I have a couple curved slipstones and
a profiled leather hone board for the various shapes.

What about flattening the stone?


Never used one or have had a need to as my stones are still flat.

I really don't have any concerns about the primary sharpening, as most of
my primary sharpening and shaping takes place on the bench grinder (the
rest is THAT good.) Would a really fine stone be useful for something
like the metal lathe toolbits?


Most turners I know use a grinder or Tormek. I could not justify the
cost of a Tormek. I picked up various shaped stones for my turning
tools and carving tools. Takes be a but longer if the edge is torn up
but I usually touch up edges as I work so I've never had a need to
grind them. Only once I needed that when I picked up a used tool and
then the guys at the local wood store let me try the Tormek on it.

(I know I'm a little off topic here, but I've noticed a couple members
mention their metalworking addiction.) Puckdropper


I love sharp pointy things. Does that count for metalworking?

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Old July 17th 17, 02:34 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Sharpening Stones

On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 7:49:33 AM UTC-5, Casper wrote:
Arkansas stones seem appealing, as do water stones. What do you have
experience with and would recommend?


I quit using Arkansas and switched to diamond, ceramic and hones. I
use diamond if they are in bad shape or need to be reprofiled. I use
ceramic to put a better edge/angle on it. I hone on leather, cork or
sandpaper for razor sharpness. I have been seen honing on cardboard
when nothing else was at hand. On rare occasion, I still use an
Arkansas only if it's the only option I have on hand. I find ceramic
stones stay cleaner, flatter and are simpler to use. No oil, water or
mess and clean up with an old toothbrush or eraser.

I intend to use the stones to handle general sharpening, but do my
chisels on the bench grinder.


I've never used a bench grinder for sharpening. I do not like how much
material it takes off, the heat that builds, or the noise and mess.

I've got a pocket knife and other assorted cutting tools. I understand
sickle blades are done with a curved stone, not the traditional flat
stone. (The slip stones did a good job. It didn't hurt when the stone
slippped and I sliced my finger.)


I've used mostly flat stones of various sizes for the size of the
tool. For extremely large blades, I move a small stone along the
length. Yes, I have sharpened and restored swords.

For the few curved tools I own, I have a couple curved slipstones and
a profiled leather hone board for the various shapes.

What about flattening the stone?


Never used one or have had a need to as my stones are still flat.

I really don't have any concerns about the primary sharpening, as most of
my primary sharpening and shaping takes place on the bench grinder (the
rest is THAT good.) Would a really fine stone be useful for something
like the metal lathe toolbits?


Most turners I know use a grinder or Tormek. I could not justify the
cost of a Tormek. I picked up various shaped stones for my turning
tools and carving tools. Takes be a but longer if the edge is torn up
but I usually touch up edges as I work so I've never had a need to
grind them. Only once I needed that when I picked up a used tool and
then the guys at the local wood store let me try the Tormek on it.

(I know I'm a little off topic here, but I've noticed a couple members
mention their metalworking addiction.) Puckdropper


I love sharp pointy things. Does that count for metalworking?

---
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http://www.avg.com


I use a slow speed 8" grinder and wolverine jig for my turning gouges. The skews and all my bench chisels, paring chisels and plane irons I sharpen on diamond (4000) and then finish on wet/dry sandpaper, going up to 2500. I also set them at 25degrees.
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Old July 17th 17, 05:28 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Sharpening Stones

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
b.com...

Arkansas stones seem appealing, as do water stones. What do you have
experience with and would recommend?


Any system will work... that said, I mostly use Arkansas bench stones though
I do have some course artificial stones to put relief in edges. Most of the
stones I bought about 30 years ago and added a large black stone maybe 15
years ago. I also have a two wheel slow speed vertical grinder, a slow speed
vertical grinder with a course wheel, a horizontal blade/knife grinder with
water drip, angle grinder, valve grinder, and myriad files, slips, and other
specialty stones. I acquired different sharpening items as the needs arose.
I'm now set up to sharpen everything from kitchen knives to hand and powered
woodworking tools, lawn mower blades, chainsaw chains, brush cutting blades,
brush hooks, ditch bank blades, shovels, picks, post hole diggers, loppers,
saws, etc. I must say that there is something special about being able to
shave the hair off your arm with a machete. ;~)

If you buy a good set of large Arkansas stones they'll last you a lifetime
without flattening if you use the whole stone rather than hollowing out some
areas through repeated use of those areas. Yes it will cost you
$200.00-300.00 for a bench set of large soft, medium, hard, and black hard
stones but viewed as a lifetime investment it's not so bad. Avoid buying the
less expensive stones... they are either too small and limited when it comes
to working on plane irons and large knives, or the thin ones are that are
glued to a wooden base only have one usable side. A large course artificial
stone speed up creating relief or repairing damaged tools. I've got a large
Norton stone for such purposes but a good quality diamond stone would be a
fine substitute.



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Old July 17th 17, 05:51 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Sharpening Stones

On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 8:34:49 AM UTC-5, Dr. Deb wrote:
On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 7:49:33 AM UTC-5, Casper wrote:



I use a slow speed 8" grinder and wolverine jig for my turning gouges. The skews and all my bench chisels, paring chisels and plane irons I sharpen on diamond (4000) and then finish on wet/dry sandpaper, going up to 2500. I also set them at 25degrees.


Someday I will invest in a slow grinder for my turning tools. For bench tools, I use the scary sharp system with a metal honing jig w/ wheel. I glued 4 different 1/2 sheets with increasingly fine grits to a flat ceramtic floor tile and work through them. Sometimes I'll very lightly use a bench grinder for the initial profile. I also mark a notch on my tools or plane blades that match a mark on my honing jig so I stay consistent with the angle. This system may not be the absolute best but it's fast and easy.
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Old July 19th 17, 05:05 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 2,542
Default Sharpening Stones

Casper wrote in
:

I quit using Arkansas and switched to diamond, ceramic and hones. I
use diamond if they are in bad shape or need to be reprofiled. I use
ceramic to put a better edge/angle on it. I hone on leather, cork or
sandpaper for razor sharpness. I have been seen honing on cardboard
when nothing else was at hand. On rare occasion, I still use an
Arkansas only if it's the only option I have on hand. I find ceramic
stones stay cleaner, flatter and are simpler to use. No oil, water or
mess and clean up with an old toothbrush or eraser.


Do you use any sort of compound?

I intend to use the stones to handle general sharpening, but do my
chisels on the bench grinder.


I've never used a bench grinder for sharpening. I do not like how much
material it takes off, the heat that builds, or the noise and mess.


I won't argue the noise and mess, but it really does do a good job with
the right jig. I've gotten better edges off the grinder and honed with a
Work Sharp than I ever did running through the grits. I wonder if the
hollow grind has anything to do with it?


I've used mostly flat stones of various sizes for the size of the
tool. For extremely large blades, I move a small stone along the
length. Yes, I have sharpened and restored swords.

For the few curved tools I own, I have a couple curved slipstones and
a profiled leather hone board for the various shapes.


Do you consider a Machette to be a form of sword? I was kinda thinking
about how similar it looks. I've got a better edge on the machette than
I used to, but haven't quite found the right technique yet.

Do you create a rounded bevel? I saw that suggested for some chisels as
a way to keep more metal near the cutting edge while still allowing the
cutting edge to cut easily.



(I know I'm a little off topic here, but I've noticed a couple
members
mention their metalworking addiction.) Puckdropper


I love sharp pointy things. Does that count for metalworking?


Sometimes! Do you like smooth round things as well? We use the sharp
pointy things to make smooth round things. :-)

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
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Old July 19th 17, 06:36 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Sharpening Stones

On Tuesday, July 18, 2017 at 11:05:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:

Do you consider a Machette to be a form of sword? I was kinda thinking
about how similar it looks. I've got a better edge on the machette than
I used to, but haven't quite found the right technique yet.


Machetes are brush/grass cutters that are made for field use. Typically a high carbon steel, they are made to be sharpened with the most crude tools available to the user. They are hardened to a Rockwell of less than 50 pts (not all, and RC testing is pointless as quality control on most machete production is poor, which is why they are cheap!) making them easy to sharpen with a #8 Mill ******* file.

To get a "convex" edge on my thicker camp machete, I use my 1x30 belt sander and grind just above the platen, making it almost like a slack belt grinder. Then touch up with a file as needed. You would be surprised at how easy this technique is, and widely used it is by outdoorsmen.

Do you create a rounded bevel? I saw that suggested for some chisels as
a way to keep more metal near the cutting edge while still allowing the
cutting edge to cut easily.


Here is a look at the different edge profiles that are readily achieved for edged tools:

https://www.finestknife.com/knife-edges-101-guide/

I think a convex edge would be very poor for a chisel as that is the way most chisels wind up, whether it was intended or not. Convex is still good for hogging out material, but you can't do a planing push cut, nor can you hold a line when mortising. Try it; make a mark in a piece of soft wood and drive your chisel in at the mark. You will see it functions as a splitter, opening both sides of your line instead of keeping one side at a 90.

At least that's my experience.

Robert
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Old July 19th 17, 01:23 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Sharpening Stones

wrote:
On Tuesday, July 18, 2017 at 11:05:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:

Do you consider a Machette to be a form of sword? I was kinda thinking
about how similar it looks. I've got a better edge on the machette than
I used to, but haven't quite found the right technique yet.


Machetes are brush/grass cutters that are made for field use. Typically a high carbon steel, they are made to be sharpened with the most crude tools available to the user. They are hardened to a Rockwell of less than 50 pts (not all, and RC testing is pointless as quality control on most machete production is poor, which is why they are cheap!) making them easy to sharpen with a #8 Mill ******* file.

To get a "convex" edge on my thicker camp machete, I use my 1x30 belt sander and grind just above the platen, making it almost like a slack belt grinder. Then touch up with a file as needed. You would be surprised at how easy this technique is, and widely used it is by outdoorsmen.

Do you create a rounded bevel? I saw that suggested for some chisels as
a way to keep more metal near the cutting edge while still allowing the
cutting edge to cut easily.


Here is a look at the different edge profiles that are readily achieved for edged tools:

https://www.finestknife.com/knife-edges-101-guide/

I think a convex edge would be very poor for a chisel as that is the way most chisels wind up, whether it was intended or not. Convex is still good for hogging out material, but you can't do a planing push cut, nor can you hold a line when mortising. Try it; make a mark in a piece of soft wood and drive your chisel in at the mark. You will see it functions as a splitter, opening both sides of your line instead of keeping one side at a 90.

At least that's my experience.

Robert

A convex or double angle edge works pretty good for a cold chisel.
Would never use it on a wood chisel.

--
GW Ross







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Old July 19th 17, 04:30 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Sharpening Stones

Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com was heard to mutter:
Do you use any sort of compound?


Yes. For most hardened metals I use Flexcut Gold. I've got a ton of
it, lasts forever, and works very well.

For other metal types, especially softer, I use a couple different
compounds. Mostly green and red but occasionally white and black.

I've used those on leather, cork and even cardboard. Nifty trick to
sharpen up a pocketknife using nothing but a tiny bit of compound and
a piece of cardboard box. Gets lots of Ooohs and Ahhhs.

I intend to use the stones to handle general sharpening, but do my
chisels on the bench grinder.

Stones work well for general shapening.

I won't argue the noise and mess, but it really does do a good job with
the right jig. I've gotten better edges off the grinder and honed with a
Work Sharp than I ever did running through the grits. I wonder if the
hollow grind has anything to do with it?


Hollow grinds can be tough w/o a turning stone. I've got a few old
Cutco's that are very difficult to sharpen any other way. For those
kinds of things I stick to slow and wet wheel grinding or belts.

Cutco resharpens, BUT are now known to send new knives instead. My set
is over 60 years old and I have yet to see another set like it.

Do you consider a Machette to be a form of sword? I was kinda thinking
about how similar it looks. I've got a better edge on the machette than
I used to, but haven't quite found the right technique yet.


Ha! Sorta. Machete is a tool, albeit a long one. I no longer own one.

I do a lot of sharpening and restoration. I just finished a German
carving set (knife, fork and steel hone) for my BiL. His grandfather's
well used but not well cared for set with stag handles badly dried,
steel heavily scratched/chipped, and silver bolsters black. Now looks
almost new. One partial scratch still on knife (almost gone) left only
because further work would remove maker stamp. Now saddest thing about
this set is the box, basically covered cardboard and falling apart.

Two items I received last week to start work on are two steel swords.
One is 50" long, 39" blade and weighs approx 7lbs. The second is 39"
long, 32" blade and weighs approx 2lbs. Pommels are large steel balls.
Handles wrapped in leather and twisted copper wire.

They belong to a friend would not let me do anything with them. Oddly
he had me clean and preserve his Spanish sword. These two have a fair
amount of rust and have darkened. Friend is moving. I asked what his
plans were for them and he said to give them to me. Now they are mine
and await restoration. I have a plan to embelish them a bit. Once
done, I may sell the larger and just keep the smaller. I'm getting too
old to play with those heavy blades anymore.

Do you create a rounded bevel? I saw that suggested for some chisels as
a way to keep more metal near the cutting edge while still allowing the
cutting edge to cut easily.


You mean a convex edge? If so, for certain tools and knives I do.
Usually axes and bushcraft style knives. It really depends on the
tool, what it's intended purpose is, and metal type.

I love sharp pointy things. Does that count for metalworking?


Sometimes! Do you like smooth round things as well? We use the sharp
pointy things to make smooth round things. :-)
Puckdropper


Yes, I like smooth rounds things too. I have made a few of those too.

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