On 7/21/2014 3:01 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I have finish sanders and a single-setting ROS (DeWalt). But what I'm
asking is, do I sand right over the joint? Grits?

Can't advise you on your specifics because every situation is different.
But, I can tell you what I usually do:

Almost always run through 100, 120, 150 with a finish sander, with the
grain on real wood; I generally start with 120 or 150 with plywood.

Use the ROS, on the high side only of problem area, with the coarser
grits as necessary (run through 60?, 80 and 100) for problem areas.
Switch to a finish sander, with the grain, and with 100 (over above
sanding), 120, 150.

Then, depending upon the project, 220 by hand to lightly sand the faces
and break edges.

On bath and kitchen cabinet wood that will be stained/painted I usually
go through 100, 120 and 150; stop at 150 and break the edges, by hand,
with that.

On stain grade veneered plywood parts, I finish sand lightly at 120, 150.

In all case for the final three grits (100, 120, 150), I use a finish
sander, with the grain only; and sand up to, but do not sand across, the
joint in either direction.

YMMV ...

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On 7/21/2014 11:13 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 10:54:06 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:

Leon wrote:


Actually the direction that you move the sander, ROS or finish sander,
is more important.

I have to disagree with this statement Leon. It has nothing at all to
do with direction. I would say that it has something to do with the
speed at which you move in any direction - so as to allow the orbital
action to do its thing, but most certainly - not to do with the
direction. It's orbital - direction has no meaning. With a finish
sander - ok - might agree on that point.

Since I seem to have triggered this discussion, I'll chime in.

I agree with Mike. I've never had a problem with cross grain scratches
using my ROS. Sure, you can see scratches in coarser grits, but they're
orbital, not directional. If Leon is seeing scratches most likely he's
either not going to a fine enough grit, he's bearing down too hard, or he
has an orbital sander, not a *random* orbital sander.

I can't state that there's no ROS that will do what Leon's does, but I
can state that mine (an old Bosch) doesn't.

Can the mechanism in an ROS fail in such a way as to eliminate the
randomness?


FWIW I used a PC Right angle ROS starting in the late 80's and used it
until going to the Rotex 5~6 years ago.

Revisiting the ROS action, yes it is a random action but if you are
going cross grain you are still moving the cutting edges of the grit
across the grain. Yes the ROS is better than a regular "non random"
orbit sander but I can't get away with what I see if I get up close and
personal. I very very very seldom have ever used a ROS as the last step
for sanding regardless of grit.

Now having said that I too have used a Bosch ROS. By comparison it was
much less aggressive and beyond noticeably slower than both the PC and
the Rotex in ROS mode so perhaps some ROS sanders don't display that
scratch pattern but IMHO the whole purpose to use a ROS over a finish
sander is to speed up the sanding process.

On 7/21/2014 3:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 7/21/2014 3:23 PM, Swingman wrote:

Many folks who own one, as well as just about every cabinet shop that
specializes in items that use that type joinery, will routinely run all
their doors, face frames, door fronts, and anything with that similar
type joinery, through a large drum sander as a matter of course.

I'm aware of this. But it has often made me wonder how the cross-grain
sanding doesn't produce bad effects.



The drum sander is not the final pass. I have a drum sander and use a
relatively coarse grit. I use the drum sander to make everything flat
and smooth. I follow up with a ROS and then a finish sander. Keep in
mind that the drum sander normally removes the problem areas so the ROS
and finish sanders are simply smoothing out the scratch pattern produced
by the drum sander.

On 7/21/2014 1:53 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
dadiOH wrote:


It has nothing to do with randomness, nor orbital for that matter. It has
to do with the movement of the sander itself, not the motion
generated by the sander.

I happen to agree with that statement and that's what I had said in my
reply. But... I do defer to those who do finer work than I do (like Leon
and Karl), and I do accept their opinions since they go way beyond the level
of acceptance that I do.



Actually that is pretty much what I said and you disagreed.

What I said,

Actually the direction that you move the sander, ROS or finish sander,
is more important.

What you said,

I have to disagree with this statement Leon. It has nothing at all to
do with direction. I would say that it has something to do with the
speed at which you move in any direction - so as to allow the orbital
action to do its thing, but most certainly - not to do with the direction.


Basically if the ROS's direction of movement is against the grain you
are more likely to see scratches than if the direction of movement is in
the direction of the grain.

On 7/21/2014 11:27 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 7/21/2014 9:49 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On 6/26/2014 7:36 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

I was amazed at how easy face frames became when my first ROS
sanded right across the corners with no scratches:-)

So, is this the consensus? I can sand over the joints in a face
frame with a random-orbit sander without cross-grain scratches? Is
this only for finer grits?

Try it Greg - you will see whatever you need to see. Better than
asking here.


Some times Mike you can be a real putz.

Sometimes?

I was trying to be as gentle as I could. ;~)

My tolerance level is low lately. I'm the "asked to join" secretary of
the HOA and the VP has been setting a **** poor example of keeping the
appearance of his home up to the HOA rules and regulations. But I guess
like most politicians he must feel that he is exempt from the rules.

Leon wrote:
On 7/21/2014 1:53 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
dadiOH wrote:


It has nothing to do with randomness, nor orbital for that matter.
It has to do with the movement of the sander itself, not the motion
generated by the sander.

I happen to agree with that statement and that's what I had said in
my reply. But... I do defer to those who do finer work than I do
(like Leon and Karl), and I do accept their opinions since they go
way beyond the level of acceptance that I do.



Actually that is pretty much what I said and you disagreed.

What I said,

Actually the direction that you move the sander, ROS or finish sander,
is more important.

What you said,

I have to disagree with this statement Leon. It has nothing at all to
do with direction. I would say that it has something to do with the
speed at which you move in any direction - so as to allow the orbital
action to do its thing, but most certainly - not to do with the
direction.

So - you are correct Leon. Allow me to explain if I may. You are correct
in calling me out on this but my point is that the negative affect of cross
hatch is going to be more driven by how the sander is used than by its
direction. I know - that is a complete contradiction to what I said above,
and I apologize for that. The direction is somewhat irrelevant because it
is an orbital sander. What really plays into the finish is how long one
keeps the sander in any given area - how slowly or how quicly they move the
sander to minimize the effect of crosshatch. I know - I said it completely
wrong the first time - my bad.


Basically if the ROS's direction of movement is against the grain you
are more likely to see scratches than if the direction of movement is
in the direction of the grain.

But ROS isn't really "against" or "with" the grain - it's always both.

--

-Mike-

On 7/21/2014 4:57 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 7/21/2014 1:53 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
dadiOH wrote:


It has nothing to do with randomness, nor orbital for that matter.
It has to do with the movement of the sander itself, not the motion
generated by the sander.

I happen to agree with that statement and that's what I had said in
my reply. But... I do defer to those who do finer work than I do
(like Leon and Karl), and I do accept their opinions since they go
way beyond the level of acceptance that I do.



Actually that is pretty much what I said and you disagreed.

What I said,

Actually the direction that you move the sander, ROS or finish sander,
is more important.

What you said,

I have to disagree with this statement Leon. It has nothing at all to
do with direction. I would say that it has something to do with the
speed at which you move in any direction - so as to allow the orbital
action to do its thing, but most certainly - not to do with the
direction.

So - you are correct Leon. Allow me to explain if I may. You are correct
in calling me out on this but my point is that the negative affect of cross
hatch is going to be more driven by how the sander is used than by its
direction. I know - that is a complete contradiction to what I said above,
and I apologize for that. The direction is somewhat irrelevant because it
is an orbital sander. What really plays into the finish is how long one
keeps the sander in any given area - how slowly or how quicly they move the
sander to minimize the effect of crosshatch. I know - I said it completely
wrong the first time - my bad.


Basically if the ROS's direction of movement is against the grain you
are more likely to see scratches than if the direction of movement is
in the direction of the grain.

But ROS isn't really "against" or "with" the grain - it's always both.

That is correct. BUT if you move it across the grain you are
introducing a non random direction as is with the grain. Now if you
move very slowly the effect might be less. Move fast enough so as to
not sand through the veneer on a piece of plywood and you see scratches
across the grain. I;m going to leave this where it is. I understand
the principal behind the random orbit, it creates scratch patterns that
are irregular. The moment you move the sander in any direction the more
that irregular pattern begins to leave a particular pattern.
When I bought my first ROS I thought differently too. 25 years of
experience is what I go by and going with the grain gives me better
results. Remember I am the guy that likes to sand, If I was not getting
good results I would not like it so much.

Ultimately do it the way you like.

"Greg Guarino" wrote

I have finish sanders and a single-setting ROS (DeWalt). But what I'm
asking is, do I sand right over the joint? Grits?

Belt sand any really bad high spots with 120, go to 120 with ROS and sand
over the whole thing, joints and all, then 150 if painted, and 220 if
stained. I threw away my finish sanders. It always seemed I got a piece of
sandpaper that had some larger rocks in them, then it mad swirls all in my
piece. Not a problem with the ROS. Also, speed is key. If you have a
single speed, go down and get a ceiling fan motor speed controller, and put
it in a box with a male and female plug to run the sander. Not ideal, but it
works.

That is what I do, anyway. YMMV.
--
Jim in NC


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On 7/21/2014 10:05 AM, Leon wrote:

Once every thing is smooth I move to the next grit and typically to my
finish sander and only moving the sander in the direction of the grain.

And right at the tee-joint line ... what? Do you try to just barely
touch the edge? I'm trying to get an idea of how big an issue this is.

I'm thinking I could machine sand as carefully as possible up to the
line on the "bottom" piece of the "T", inevitably going over a little.
But on the "top" piece, I could hand-sand without going over the edge at
all for the last grit, especially if I were to make a custom sanding
block with a "stop".

Like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14529789927/

But I have a feeling you guys don't do anything like that.


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On 7/22/2014 6:08 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 7/21/2014 10:05 AM, Leon wrote:

Once every thing is smooth I move to the next grit and typically to my
finish sander and only moving the sander in the direction of the grain.

And right at the tee-joint line ... what? Do you try to just barely
touch the edge? I'm trying to get an idea of how big an issue this is.

If you are talking about the butt joint where like a rail and stile
join, I sand that with ROS usually down to 150 grit and pay no
attention to grain. Then the transition or joint is smooth I switch to
my finish sander and the same 150 grit and will try to only move the
sander in the direction of the grain. I first run the sander along the
piece that runs into the other. If I go too far, into the mating board
with the grain running 90 degrees to the piece I am sanding, I work that
out when I sand the other piece. It is easier sanding in this order
than sanding in reverse to that order. Then I do the same with 180
grit and the finish sander. Because finish sanders typically use
rectangular pieces of sand paper it is easier to control exactly what
you are sanding.

I have always looked at the round disk ROS sander as one to remove bulk
but with much more fineness than a belt sander. For the last grits I
almost always use a finish sander so that I can have more control with
direction. About the only time I will finish sand with a ROS is when
sanding large non-enclosed panels, cabinet sides or tops. ROS's can't
get into inside corners and are tough to hold flat on the edge surface
of a face frame, doors, drawers, anything narrow..




I'm thinking I could machine sand as carefully as possible up to the
line on the "bottom" piece of the "T", inevitably going over a little.
But on the "top" piece, I could hand-sand without going over the edge at
all for the last grit, especially if I were to make a custom sanding
block with a "stop".

Like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14529789927/

But I have a feeling you guys don't do anything like that.


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On 7/21/2014 10:53 PM, Morgans wrote:


"Greg Guarino" wrote

I have finish sanders and a single-setting ROS (DeWalt). But what I'm
asking is, do I sand right over the joint? Grits?

Belt sand any really bad high spots with 120, go to 120 with ROS and
sand over the whole thing, joints and all, then 150 if painted, and 220
if stained. I threw away my finish sanders.

How do you sand inside corners with a round disk?



It always seemed I got a
piece of sandpaper that had some larger rocks in them, then it mad
swirls all in my piece.

This can easily happen with any sander if you are not using a vac to
capture dust and or do not wipe down the surface between grits. OR if
you are using marginal quality sand paper.



Not a problem with the ROS. Also, speed is
key. If you have a single speed, go down and get a ceiling fan motor
speed controller, and put it in a box with a male and female plug to run
the sander. Not ideal, but it works.

That is what I do, anyway. YMMV.

Leon wrote:


I have always looked at the round disk ROS sander as one to remove
bulk but with much more fineness than a belt sander. For the last
grits I almost always use a finish sander so that I can have more
control with direction. About the only time I will finish sand with
a ROS is when sanding large non-enclosed panels, cabinet sides or
tops. ROS's can't get into inside corners and are tough to hold flat
on the edge surface of a face frame, doors, drawers, anything narrow..


What do you use for a finish sander Leon?

--

-Mike-

On 7/22/2014 7:37 AM, Leon wrote:
On 7/22/2014 6:08 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 7/21/2014 10:05 AM, Leon wrote:

Once every thing is smooth I move to the next grit and typically to my
finish sander and only moving the sander in the direction of the grain.

And right at the tee-joint line ... what? Do you try to just barely
touch the edge? I'm trying to get an idea of how big an issue this is.

If you are talking about the butt joint where like a rail and stile
join, I sand that with ROS usually down to 150 grit and pay no
attention to grain. Then the transition or joint is smooth I switch to
my finish sander and the same 150 grit and will try to only move the
sander in the direction of the grain. I first run the sander along the
piece that runs into the other. If I go too far, into the mating board
with the grain running 90 degrees to the piece I am sanding, I work that
out when I sand the other piece. It is easier sanding in this order
than sanding in reverse to that order. Then I do the same with 180
grit and the finish sander. Because finish sanders typically use
rectangular pieces of sand paper it is easier to control exactly what
you are sanding.

I have always looked at the round disk ROS sander as one to remove bulk
but with much more fineness than a belt sander. For the last grits I
almost always use a finish sander so that I can have more control with
direction. About the only time I will finish sand with a ROS is when
sanding large non-enclosed panels, cabinet sides or tops. ROS's can't
get into inside corners and are tough to hold flat on the edge surface
of a face frame, doors, drawers, anything narrow..




I'm thinking I could machine sand as carefully as possible up to the
line on the "bottom" piece of the "T", inevitably going over a little.
But on the "top" piece, I could hand-sand without going over the edge at
all for the last grit, especially if I were to make a custom sanding
block with a "stop".

Exactly what I was attempting to explain in the previous reply. BUT if
you have a small finish sander it is easily done with that instead of
using brute force. ;~)





Like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14529789927/

But I have a feeling you guys don't do anything like that.

That is a little over kill. LOL BUT it should work. You don't quite
have to be that anal, sanding should be FUN! ;~)

If you fold the paper into the corner of the block it will also ease the
outside edge and sand the outer edge at the same time. BUT unless
executed perfectly it could round the outer edge more than you want.
Better to use two pieces, one for the outer edge surface short of the
corner and one for the surface short of the corner, come back and get
the corner.

Free hand sanding with a block of wood or finish sander should allow you
to get close enough with out going over on the pieces that butt. Once
yu get into the finer grits the stray scratches tend to be overshadowed
by that line at the joint where the two pieces meet.

One other thing, I buy foam backed 4x4 sheets of finish grit sand paper.
The makes for great hand sanding with out a block, the foam prevents
you fingers from slipping and is great for quickly easing over edges in
tight spots and corners. I typically use Mirka brand found at Woodcraft.









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On 7/22/2014 8:03 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


I have always looked at the round disk ROS sander as one to remove
bulk but with much more fineness than a belt sander. For the last
grits I almost always use a finish sander so that I can have more
control with direction. About the only time I will finish sand with
a ROS is when sanding large non-enclosed panels, cabinet sides or
tops. ROS's can't get into inside corners and are tough to hold flat
on the edge surface of a face frame, doors, drawers, anything narrow..


What do you use for a finish sander Leon?



For probably 25 years I used these. These would raise a cloud of dust
that you would not believe.

http://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-3.../dp/B0000222Y9

After initially buying a Festool CT22 vac with the Domino, I eventually
added the Rotex sander and replaced the above sander with this.

http://festoolusa.com/power-tools/sa...-sander-567863


As a side note here, unless I do some hand sanding I rarely will wipe
down or blow off a sanded surface before applying a finish. It works
that well at dust control.

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

On 7/21/2014 10:05 AM, Leon wrote:

Once every thing is smooth I move to the next grit and typically to my
finish sander and only moving the sander in the direction of the
grain.

And right at the tee-joint line ... what? Do you try to just barely
touch the edge? I'm trying to get an idea of how big an issue this is.

I'm thinking I could machine sand as carefully as possible up to the
line on the "bottom" piece of the "T", inevitably going over a little.
But on the "top" piece, I could hand-sand without going over the edge at
all for the last grit, especially if I were to make a custom sanding
block with a "stop".

Like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14529789927/

But I have a feeling you guys don't do anything like that.

Right.

You are making a bigger deal out of this than it is. Just sand the damn
thing

While I do try to direct sanding to the high edge, if the sander slops
over a bit onto the lower, just move it away a little. If you are
skeptical, just make a throwaway joint and sand it to prove to yourself
that all will be fine.

Regardless of how carefully you sand, there is going to be an area that is
not in the same plane as the rest; however, it is minute and not
noticeable. The only way to avoid it is to take down the WHOLE assembly
until the joints are flush and then finish sand. That is one of the handy
features of a drum sander. Of course, when you do that, the whole
assembly is a skosh thinner than you planned. No big deal, it doesn't
matter...in my life, at least, a face frame etc. that winds up 47/64
hick - or even less - rather than 3/4 is perfectly fine.

--

dadiOH
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On 7/22/2014 6:08 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I'm thinking I could machine sand as carefully as possible up to the
line on the "bottom" piece of the "T", inevitably going over a little.
But on the "top" piece, I could hand-sand without going over the edge at
all for the last grit, especially if I were to make a custom sanding
block with a "stop".

That's making this a bigger issue than it is in practice.

The rectangular pad of most "finish" sanders, and the small round pad of
most "compact" finish sanders, allows you to sand up to a line, or
joint, with enough accuracy for 99.9% of any desired sanding results,
and certainly without need of a "stop".

Mechanical sanders are tools, and like all tools, some use the same
tools in different ways to get the same result.

And, like all tools, you generally get what you pay for in performance.

I use a ROS (Festool Rotex 125) basically for rough sanding (60,80,100g)
and minor material removal;

....a finish sander (Festool RTS400EQ w/orbital motion) for finish
sanding (100, 120, 150, 180, 220);

....and a detail sander (Festool DTS400EQ w/orbital motion) for places
where I can't get the ROS or a finish sander.

90% of my sanding is done with the finish sander/RTS400EQ. YMMV

YMMV...

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On 7/22/2014 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
That is a little over kill. LOL BUT it should work. You don't quite
have to be that anal, sanding should be FUN! ;~)

The proper degree of "anality" is what I've mostly been trying to get a
grasp on with these questions. As always, the "answer" is a stew of all
of the various responses I get here coupled with a bit of my own sense
of things.

As for sanding being fun ...

I have to say, I got a small amount of pleasure from hand-sanding the
curved surfaces. But repetitive machine sanding is still a chore.

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On 7/22/2014 8:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 7/22/2014 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
That is a little over kill. LOL BUT it should work. You don't quite
have to be that anal, sanding should be FUN! ;~)

The proper degree of "anality" is what I've mostly been trying to get a
grasp on with these questions. As always, the "answer" is a stew of all
of the various responses I get here coupled with a bit of my own sense
of things.

Let results be your gauge. Don't be afraid of a project not being
perfect as you will certainly be over doing on many steps. Build a
small and a bit complicated shop box and stain it and don't over think
it. Learn from those results.





As for sanding being fun ...

I have to say, I got a small amount of pleasure from hand-sanding the
curved surfaces. But repetitive machine sanding is still a chore.



LOL, well hopefully one day you will be able to obtain equipment that
works better and has stellar dust retention. When you can sand for
hours, stop and walk inside and sit down with out bringing any dust it
becomes more fun.



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On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:21:38 -0500, Leon wrote:

Now having said that I too have used a Bosch ROS. By comparison it was
much less aggressive and beyond noticeably slower than both the PC and
the Rotex in ROS mode so perhaps some ROS sanders don't display that
scratch pattern but IMHO the whole purpose to use a ROS over a finish
sander is to speed up the sanding process.

Well, I certainly don't tout the Bosch for stock removal :-). I use it
as a finish sander. It is less aggressive and is variable speed, so
perhaps that accounts for the lack of scratches I see.

All sanders leave scratches, but by the time I get to 220 I can't see
them. And I usually finish with clear shellac (SealCoat). I do work
through all the grits - it seems to be faster than skipping grits.

P.S. I hand sand the shellac - a power sander melts it :-).

Greg Guarino writes:
On 7/22/2014 9:11 AM, Leon wrote:
That is a little over kill. LOL BUT it should work. You don't quite
have to be that anal, sanding should be FUN! ;~)

The proper degree of "anality" is what I've mostly been trying to get a
grasp on with these questions. As always, the "answer" is a stew of all
of the various responses I get here coupled with a bit of my own sense
of things.

As for sanding being fun ..


If you're not doing production work, you might find a hand scraper
superior to sandpaper, particularly when leveling face frames
and glued-up panels.

scott

On 2014-07-22, Scott Lurndal wrote:

If you're not doing production work, you might find a hand scraper
superior to sandpaper, particularly when leveling face frames and
glued-up panels.

Does anybody use a plane for tasks like this?

--
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at DUCK EXHIBIT??
gmail.com

On 7/22/2014 11:12 AM, Leon wrote:

LOL, well hopefully one day you will be able to obtain equipment that
works better and has stellar dust retention. When you can sand for
hours, stop and walk inside and sit down with out bringing any dust it
becomes more fun.

Hey, I can do that! ... all but the "fun" part, that is.

What I like about our particular choice of sanding equipment is how much
less time and effort it takes.

... giving me more time to find "fun" somewhere else. LOL

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On 7/22/2014 11:29 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
On 2014-07-22, Scott Lurndal wrote:

If you're not doing production work, you might find a hand scraper
superior to sandpaper, particularly when leveling face frames and
glued-up panels.

Does anybody use a plane for tasks like this?

Absolutely, when I feel I will get better results, mainly due to the
wood and grain, by doing so.

On face frames, door and drawer frames, and other butt joins, I will
often start with a low angle block plane to get close enough to not
affect the adjoining piece, and maybe a card scraper, then follow up
with the appropriate sanding to get it to the final finished state.

It's never all brute sanding.

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On 7/22/2014 11:22 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:21:38 -0500, Leon wrote:

Now having said that I too have used a Bosch ROS. By comparison it was
much less aggressive and beyond noticeably slower than both the PC and
the Rotex in ROS mode so perhaps some ROS sanders don't display that
scratch pattern but IMHO the whole purpose to use a ROS over a finish
sander is to speed up the sanding process.

Well, I certainly don't tout the Bosch for stock removal :-). I use it
as a finish sander. It is less aggressive and is variable speed, so
perhaps that accounts for the lack of scratches I see.

All sanders leave scratches, but by the time I get to 220 I can't see
them. And I usually finish with clear shellac (SealCoat). I do work
through all the grits - it seems to be faster than skipping grits.

P.S. I hand sand the shellac - a power sander melts it :-).



And your methods very well may work better for you than they would for
me. I am not sure I even own any grit past 180. ;~) And I mostly only
use rub on gel varnishes and stains on occasion.

On 7/22/2014 11:42 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 7/22/2014 11:12 AM, Leon wrote:

LOL, well hopefully one day you will be able to obtain equipment that
works better and has stellar dust retention. When you can sand for
hours, stop and walk inside and sit down with out bringing any dust it
becomes more fun.

Hey, I can do that! ... all but the "fun" part, that is.

What I like about our particular choice of sanding equipment is how much
less time and effort it takes.

... giving me more time to find "fun" somewhere else. LOL



;!) I was actually surprised at how long the paper lasts

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

How do you sand inside corners with a round disk?

Inside corners, are inside. Don't need sanded, do they? g

Really, I guess I did not get rid of everything that is not a ROS. I still
have a couple triangle shaped detail sanders for inside corners and such.
It still seems to save a lot of time using the ROS for all that I am able to
reach.
--
Jim in NC


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"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

LOL, well hopefully one day you will be able to obtain equipment that
works better and has stellar dust retention. When you can sand for hours,
stop and walk inside and sit down with out bringing any dust it becomes
more fun.

Dust? That's what I like about my ROS. It makes lots of it. Tons. I got
a motor off of a 5 HP air compressor and converted it into a ROS. It is
heavy, but it will sand like a Manchurian Devil digging in the desert.
Using a 220 3 phase drop cord is cumbersome, but you get used to it, in the
search for the ultimate sanding job. I use 5/4" rough sawn lumber for face
frames and sand it all down to 3/4". I start out with # 2 grit sandpaper,
moving 1/2 grit closer to 1000 grit on every pass. Yep, that's right.
Almost 2,000 different grits before I use any finish.

Nothing is more satisfying than coming out of the woodshop, and shaking like
a dog, and seeing the whole neighborhood disappear under a fine coating of
dust. Honey bees flee in confusion, as they can't tell what is pollen and
what is dust. I also try to remember to blow my nose every time I stop
sanding. You have instant wood putty for cracks and nail holes that match
the wood you are working on sanding, and because it is water based, it takes
stain perfectly once it gets dry. Then I immediately start up the stairs
and track footprints through the house on the way to the den and my beloved
LazyBoy to take a break. When I get up, I beat on the chair with a broom to
get all of the dust back up into the air. After all, the multiple HEPA air
filters I have are expensive and should have to do some heavy lifting in
order to be justified in running 24/7. I had to upgrade to a 400 Amp
service to keep from blowing the main breaker with all of these magnificent
machines running all day and night.

To get the dust off of the frames, and out of the shop, I usually get the
water hose out, and spray down the entire shop. I can then tell which
machines are low on wax, when they immediately start to rust. Part of my
preventative maintenance program. The water goes on the wood I had been
sanding, of course, and raises all of the grain, which is why I sand it all
to 1000 grit to start with. After the grain raises, it looks like everyone
else's sanding jobs, less all of the swirls and marks that you get from all
of the finish sanders and such most people use.

So there, the real secret is out. How to sand stuff before you put smooth
stuff over it. g

Gosh sakes, people. Experiment a little. Each wood, each sander, each
project is different. Sand it until it looks good, then put some shiny stuff
on it.

I hope my guide has been useful, or at least entertaining.

PS. Not too many forests were harmed in the making of these cabinets. Just
2 or 3. The particulates that went into the air are my way of combating
global warming, which makes up for it.
--
Jim in NC


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Morgans wrote:


Nothing is more satisfying than coming out of the woodshop, and
shaking like a dog, and seeing the whole neighborhood disappear under
a fine coating of dust. Honey bees flee in confusion, as they can't
tell what is pollen and what is dust. I also try to remember to
blow my nose every time I stop sanding.

I just let it harden in and then pick it out...

You have instant wood putty

Yup!


Then I immediately start up the stairs and track
footprints through the house on the way to the den and my beloved
LazyBoy to take a break. When I get up, I beat on the chair with a
broom to get all of the dust back up into the air.

Now this is a guy that is just after a man's heart!



So there, the real secret is out. How to sand stuff before you put
smooth stuff over it. g

Gosh sakes, people. Experiment a little. Each wood, each sander,
each project is different. Sand it until it looks good, then put some
shiny stuff on it.

And... if you've got some swirl marks, put more of that stuff on to fill
them...



I hope my guide has been useful, or at least entertaining.

Very!



PS. Not too many forests were harmed in the making of these
cabinets. Just 2 or 3. The particulates that went into the air are
my way of combating global warming, which makes up for it.

Plus - they are organic and must provide some sort of gardening benefit.

--

-Mike-

On 7/22/2014 3:46 PM, Morgans wrote:

Nothing is more satisfying than coming out of the woodshop, and shaking
like a dog, and seeing the whole neighborhood disappear under a fine
coating of dust.

So there, the real secret is out. How to sand stuff before you put
smooth stuff over it. g

LOL ... reminds of the time I was required to remove, as the contractor,
a tree that we supposedly murdered as a result of new residential
construction a few months before ... bogus, but you can't fight city
hall and expect to get permits approved in a timely manner ... and yes,
they actually do hold what is in effect a "tree murder" court.

A 30" in diameter pecan tree, and when the removal crew felled it, it
was basically a thin shell, from roots to top branches, full of dust
from years of an insect infestation, and the cloud of dust that ensued
in cutting it up in pieces small enough to haul off blanketed the
neighborhood for blocks.

Saw the cloud of dust as I was driving to the site, knew instinctively
what had happened, and without stopping, went straight to the local car
wash and purchased $200 worth of gift cards to present to the adjacent
neighbors on two streets to get their vehicles washed ... turned out to
have been a prudent, cost of doing business, move.

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