The last couple of weekends have been busy and thus unproductive
woodworking-wise. I'm trying to come up with an efficient regime to sand
the lots and lots of repetitive parts that make up the two shelf units
I'm building.

I made myself a little "corral" just big enough to immobilize four 9" x
1.5" pieces at a time (four 1/2" ply "fences" in a rectangle) for
sanding. I will probably do something similar for the other size parts.
Per advice here (distilled from several posters) I'm going to use (at
least) 120 and 150 grit. The project is made of standard Lowe's-issue
S4S red oak.

I have a random orbit sander and an old (1960's vintage, chrome)
third-sheet finish sander. I'm wondering if I could possibly streamline
the process by using both. I know it's easy enough to slap on another
hook and loop disk, but I'll be doing that every minute or two, or
alternatively setting up each batch of parts twice (or 3 times).

If I can get good results using the finish sander for the finer grit, or
possibly even for only the 180 if I decide that's necessary, it could
save me from having to repeat one little irritating step over and over.

I can imagine several possible flaws in this plan, but I really don't
have enough experience to know how much of a problem any of them would
be. Until recently, finish sanders were all I had. Of course, my
previous projects were composed mostly of plywood.

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On 6/22/2014 8:44 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I made myself a little "corral" just big enough to immobilize four 9" x
1.5" pieces at a time (four 1/2" ply "fences" in a rectangle) for
sanding. I will probably do something similar for the other size parts.

Much, much more efficient and time saving:

http://www.rockler.com/non-slip-rout...DR-w4J_bTw_wcB


Per advice here (distilled from several posters) I'm going to use (at
least) 120 and 150 grit. The project is made of standard Lowe's-issue
S4S red oak.

I have a random orbit sander and an old (1960's vintage, chrome)
third-sheet finish sander. I'm wondering if I could possibly streamline
the process by using both. I know it's easy enough to slap on another
hook and loop disk, but I'll be doing that every minute or two, or
alternatively setting up each batch of parts twice (or 3 times).

Absolutely use both. IME, even those old "finish" sanders that don't
orbit should do nicely for your final grit as long as you sand with the
grain. Especially important to either dust or blow off each piece after
each grit.

Factors are any milling/sanding marks, and also the color of the stain.
IME, and in most common woods, darker colored stains often highlight
milling/sanding marks less than lighter colors.


If I can get good results using the finish sander for the finer grit, or
possibly even for only the 180 if I decide that's necessary, it could
save me from having to repeat one little irritating step over and over.

Can see no reason not. Be doing a lot of sanding this past week in
preparation for staining a much larger project and used three sanders,
with 100, 120, 150g respectively.

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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 6/22/2014 10:09 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 6/22/2014 8:44 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I made myself a little "corral" just big enough to immobilize four 9" x
1.5" pieces at a time (four 1/2" ply "fences" in a rectangle) for
sanding. I will probably do something similar for the other size parts.

Much, much more efficient and time saving:

http://www.rockler.com/non-slip-rout...DR-w4J_bTw_wcB

That looks exactly like something I've seen in my house somewhere; some
kind of non-skid stuff my wife bought in a housewares store. I'll bet
it's the same material. I'll have to ask her where it is.

But does that work decently for very small pieces?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/14211762232/

I've got a lot of them.


Per advice here (distilled from several posters) I'm going to use (at
least) 120 and 150 grit. The project is made of standard Lowe's-issue
S4S red oak.

I have a random orbit sander and an old (1960's vintage, chrome)
third-sheet finish sander. I'm wondering if I could possibly streamline
the process by using both. I know it's easy enough to slap on another
hook and loop disk, but I'll be doing that every minute or two, or
alternatively setting up each batch of parts twice (or 3 times).

Absolutely use both. IME, even those old "finish" sanders that don't
orbit should do nicely for your final grit as long as you sand with the
grain. Especially important to either dust or blow off each piece after
each grit.

This one (an old Rockwell) orbits.

Factors are any milling/sanding marks, and also the color of the stain.
IME, and in most common woods, darker colored stains often highlight
milling/sanding marks less than lighter colors.


If I can get good results using the finish sander for the finer grit, or
possibly even for only the 180 if I decide that's necessary, it could
save me from having to repeat one little irritating step over and over.

Can see no reason not. Be doing a lot of sanding this past week in
preparation for staining a much larger project and used three sanders,
with 100, 120, 150g respectively.




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On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 12:18:20 -0400, Greg Guarino wrote:

Absolutely use both. IME, even those old "finish" sanders that don't
orbit should do nicely for your final grit as long as you sand with the
grain. Especially important to either dust or blow off each piece after
each grit.

This one (an old Rockwell) orbits.

Make sure the "orbit" is random. I seem to remember the orbits were not
random. If you use one of those you'll get cross-grain scratches.

In article , Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 12:18:20 -0400, Greg Guarino wrote:

Absolutely use both. IME, even those old "finish" sanders that don't
orbit should do nicely for your final grit as long as you sand with the
grain. Especially important to either dust or blow off each piece after
each grit.

This one (an old Rockwell) orbits.

Make sure the "orbit" is random. I seem to remember the orbits were not
random. If you use one of those you'll get cross-grain scratches.

And regardless, very light pressure downwards, letting the paper cut by
itself.

--
³Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness
sobered, but stupid lasts forever.² -- Aristophanes

On 6/22/2014 12:47 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 12:18:20 -0400, Greg Guarino wrote:

Absolutely use both. IME, even those old "finish" sanders that don't
orbit should do nicely for your final grit as long as you sand with the
grain. Especially important to either dust or blow off each piece after
each grit.

This one (an old Rockwell) orbits.

Make sure the "orbit" is random. I seem to remember the orbits were not
random. If you use one of those you'll get cross-grain scratches.

Well it isn't random, of course. These sanders predate Random-Orbit
action by over a decade. As far as I know, most "rectangular" sanders
are still not "random-orbit". Which is why I asked my original question.

Was everything that was machine-sanded before 1982 (and considerably
after, as ROS sanders didn't replace everything else all at once)
covered in nasty cross grain scratches?

The crux of my question was "can I profitably use orbital (not random)
sanders for finer grits?" My purpose is to avoid changing grits on my
(one) ROS repeatedly (or setting up each set of parts repeatedly) as I
sand the 56 (mostly very small) pieces that make up the frames of my
current project.

A couple of people have said yes, which makes sense to me as I never had
a ROS before recently and I don't remember poor results with the
Orbitals I used before. Of course, most of that work was with fine grits
on ply and some S4S trim. Or maybe I never looked closely enough?

I'm inclined to set up the three sanders I have with 120, 150 and
(perhaps) 180 for all of the Red Oak I need to sand. I'd use the ROS for
the coarsest grit, mostly to remove the planer marks from the
store-bought S4S lumber.

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On 6/26/2014 1:26 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 6/22/2014 12:47 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 12:18:20 -0400, Greg Guarino wrote:

Absolutely use both. IME, even those old "finish" sanders that don't
orbit should do nicely for your final grit as long as you sand with the
grain. Especially important to either dust or blow off each piece after
each grit.

This one (an old Rockwell) orbits.

Make sure the "orbit" is random. I seem to remember the orbits were not
random. If you use one of those you'll get cross-grain scratches.

Well it isn't random, of course. These sanders predate Random-Orbit
action by over a decade. As far as I know, most "rectangular" sanders
are still not "random-orbit". Which is why I asked my original question.

OK, some of the OLD orbital disk sanders were essentially a disk
spinning on the end of a drill, like a grinder. You do not want that.

For the most part finish sanders are typically only orbital, not random
orbit, however their pattern is so small it does not matter. ROS's
sanders are a nice alternative to using a belt sander when you want
something that can be more aggressive than a finish sander but still
almost have the same finesse as a finish sander.





Was everything that was machine-sanded before 1982 (and considerably
after, as ROS sanders didn't replace everything else all at once)
covered in nasty cross grain scratches?

The crux of my question was "can I profitably use orbital (not random)
sanders for finer grits?" My purpose is to avoid changing grits on my
(one) ROS repeatedly (or setting up each set of parts repeatedly) as I
sand the 56 (mostly very small) pieces that make up the frames of my
current project.

A couple of people have said yes, which makes sense to me as I never had
a ROS before recently and I don't remember poor results with the
Orbitals I used before. Of course, most of that work was with fine grits
on ply and some S4S trim. Or maybe I never looked closely enough?

I'm inclined to set up the three sanders I have with 120, 150 and
(perhaps) 180 for all of the Red Oak I need to sand. I'd use the ROS for
the coarsest grit, mostly to remove the planer marks from the
store-bought S4S lumber.

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On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 14:26:12 -0400, Greg Guarino wrote:

Make sure the "orbit" is random. I seem to remember the orbits were not
random. If you use one of those you'll get cross-grain scratches.

Well it isn't random, of course. These sanders predate Random-Orbit
action by over a decade. As far as I know, most "rectangular" sanders
are still not "random-orbit". Which is why I asked my original question.

Was everything that was machine-sanded before 1982 (and considerably
after, as ROS sanders didn't replace everything else all at once)
covered in nasty cross grain scratches?

IIRC, the one I had (from Sears) did have the nasties. I used the
orbital mode for the coarsest grits and the straight line (with the
grain) for the finer ones.

I was amazed at how easy face frames became when my first ROS sanded
right across the corners with no scratches :-)

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

The last couple of weekends have been busy and thus unproductive
woodworking-wise. I'm trying to come up with an efficient regime to sand
the lots and lots of repetitive parts that make up the two shelf units
I'm building.

I made myself a little "corral" just big enough to immobilize four 9" x
1.5" pieces at a time (four 1/2" ply "fences" in a rectangle) for
sanding. I will probably do something similar for the other size parts.
Per advice here (distilled from several posters) I'm going to use (at
least) 120 and 150 grit. The project is made of standard Lowe's-issue
S4S red oak.

I have a random orbit sander and an old (1960's vintage, chrome)
third-sheet finish sander. I'm wondering if I could possibly streamline
the process by using both.

Sure. One grit on one, the other grit on the other.

Keep in mind that the finer grit is just to remove scratch marks made by the
coarser; that means that the coarser grit sanding should be thorough to
remove any mill marks, etc. IME, the proper sanding time is about twice as
long as what I think it should be

You might want to invest in a 1/4 sheet orbital sander; they are inexpensive
and I still prefer then to the ROS. And if you ever come across a now
defunct Porter-Cable 505 half sheet sander I would strongly suggest that you
buy it. They aren't much good on small things but on larger ones they are
the best finishing sanders I have ever used due, primarily, to the weight
and the thick felt pad.

--

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____________________________

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Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
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On 6/22/2014 11:53 AM, dadiOH wrote:

They aren't much good on small things but on larger ones they are
the best finishing sanders I have ever used due, primarily, to the weight
and the thick felt pad.

That's exactly what I like about the old Rockwell I appropriated from my
Dad's garage.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57627751790027

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57628183501013

That's not "chrome-ized" plastic; it's all metal. And the pad is dense
felt. Prior to digging out that sander I had a quarter-sheet Craftsman.
The vibration used to make my hand go numb after a while. Not so with
the Rockwell. Maybe it's just the weight, but the vibration transmitted
to my hand is greatly less.

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"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

On 6/22/2014 11:53 AM, dadiOH wrote:

They aren't much good on small things but on larger ones they are
the best finishing sanders I have ever used due, primarily, to the
weight and the thick felt pad.

That's exactly what I like about the old Rockwell I appropriated from my
Dad's garage.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57627751790027

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57628183501013

That's not "chrome-ized" plastic; it's all metal. And the pad is dense
felt. Prior to digging out that sander I had a quarter-sheet Craftsman.
The vibration used to make my hand go numb after a while. Not so with
the Rockwell. Maybe it's just the weight, but the vibration transmitted
to my hand is greatly less.

There have been so many tool company buyouts/mergers that it is hard to know
who made what but yours looks basically the same as the one I mentioned. If
it works well, treat it well, it is a definite keeper.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 6/22/2014 4:59 PM, dadiOH wrote: "Greg Guarino"
wrote in message

On 6/22/2014 11:53 AM, dadiOH wrote:

They aren't much good on small things but on larger ones they are
the best finishing sanders I have ever used due, primarily, to the
weight and the thick felt pad.

That's exactly what I like about the old Rockwell I appropriated from my
Dad's garage.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57627751790027


https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...57628183501013

That's not "chrome-ized" plastic; it's all metal. And the pad is dense
felt. Prior to digging out that sander I had a quarter-sheet Craftsman.
The vibration used to make my hand go numb after a while. Not so with
the Rockwell. Maybe it's just the weight, but the vibration transmitted
to my hand is greatly less.

There have been so many tool company buyouts/mergers that it is hard
to know
who made what but yours looks basically the same as the one I
mentioned. If
it works well, treat it well, it is a definite keeper.



There's one on Ebay for $40, but it's not as shiny.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Port...em1c41 0ae898

I visit my parents most evenings these days. I had another browse in the
garage this evening. I found another sander, a Black and Decker 7320 1/3
sheet. It's probably of a similar vintage, all metal, chrome finish. No
corrosion at all. I suppose the sealed ammo box it's been in for the
past several decades might have helped.

I turned it on briefly and tried sanding a piece of scrap. It doesn't
feel quite as solid and smooth as the Rockwell, but it wasn't too bad.
Noisier too. It could still be of some use. The pad is some sort of foam
rubber rather than felt and is a little beaten around the edges. Still
seems flat over the active area though.

Interestingly, there is a lever that selects between "orbital" and
"straight-line" action. The manual (which can be found he

http://servicenet.blackanddecker.com...s/Detail/7420#

.... in all it's typewritten glory)

recommends orbital for faster material removal and straight-line for a
fine finish.

I couldn't move the lever at first (it's almost inaccessible between the
plate and the main housing), but knowing that my Dad wouldn't have
thrown out any accessories, I had a look in the ammo box. Lo and behold;
a little plastic "handle" that slips over the lever.

I tried both settings. There is definitely a difference; the "orbital"
setting is significantly more "orbital" than the straight-line setting.
But judging by eye, there seems to still be a minor amount of "orbit" in
the straight-line setting as well. I'll give it a more thorough test at
some point.

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"Greg Guarino" wrote in message


I visit my parents most evenings these days. I had another browse in the
garage this evening. I found another sander, a Black and Decker 7320 1/3
sheet. It's probably of a similar vintage, all metal, chrome finish. No
corrosion at all. I suppose the sealed ammo box it's been in for the
past several decades might have helped.

I turned it on briefly and tried sanding a piece of scrap. It doesn't
feel quite as solid and smooth as the Rockwell, but it wasn't too bad.
Noisier too. It could still be of some use. The pad is some sort of foam
rubber rather than felt and is a little beaten around the edges. Still
seems flat over the active area though.

Interestingly, there is a lever that selects between "orbital" and
"straight-line" action.

I have one of those too, circa 1965-70. Mine is Craftsman but may well be a
branded B&D. Works OK but I rarely use it, not nearly as good as the Porter
Cable 1/2 sheet sander. I also have a Hitachi 1/2 sheet, rarely use it
either for the same reason; also, not as heavy, hard rubber platen...works
best if stuff is already dead flat.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 6/22/2014 8:44 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
The last couple of weekends have been busy and thus unproductive
woodworking-wise. I'm trying to come up with an efficient regime to sand
the lots and lots of repetitive parts that make up the two shelf units
I'm building.

I made myself a little "corral" just big enough to immobilize four 9" x
1.5" pieces at a time (four 1/2" ply "fences" in a rectangle) for
sanding. I will probably do something similar for the other size parts.
Per advice here (distilled from several posters) I'm going to use (at
least) 120 and 150 grit. The project is made of standard Lowe's-issue
S4S red oak.

Sand the pieces in larger sections "before" you cut them apart. Sand a
9" x 7" piece first then rip them apart. Now you only have a half the
edges to sand.

Stack several pieces together on a flat surface. On both sides of the
stack lay a longer piece of wood, thinner than the stack. Use a bar
clamp on both ends of the boards to squeeze every thing together.

Or lay them all down on double stick tape

Or http://www.jettools.com/us/en/p/10-2...-sander/628900

Definitely use all of your sanders with different grits attached.



I have a random orbit sander and an old (1960's vintage, chrome)
third-sheet finish sander. I'm wondering if I could possibly streamline
the process by using both. I know it's easy enough to slap on another
hook and loop disk, but I'll be doing that every minute or two, or
alternatively setting up each batch of parts twice (or 3 times).

If I can get good results using the finish sander for the finer grit, or
possibly even for only the 180 if I decide that's necessary, it could
save me from having to repeat one little irritating step over and over.

I can imagine several possible flaws in this plan, but I really don't
have enough experience to know how much of a problem any of them would
be. Until recently, finish sanders were all I had. Of course, my
previous projects were composed mostly of plywood.

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On 6/22/2014 7:55 PM, Leon wrote: On 6/22/2014 8:44 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
The last couple of weekends have been busy and thus unproductive
woodworking-wise. I'm trying to come up with an efficient regime to sand
the lots and lots of repetitive parts that make up the two shelf units
I'm building.

I made myself a little "corral" just big enough to immobilize four 9" x
1.5" pieces at a time (four 1/2" ply "fences" in a rectangle) for
sanding. I will probably do something similar for the other size parts.
Per advice here (distilled from several posters) I'm going to use (at
least) 120 and 150 grit. The project is made of standard Lowe's-issue
S4S red oak.

Sand the pieces in larger sections "before" you cut them apart. Sand a
9" x 7" piece first then rip them apart. Now you only have a half the
edges to sand.

I thought of that, *after* I cut up all of the pieces, naturally . I'm
afraid that ripping small pieces like that is difficult with my tool
(and personal) limitations; I started with stock of the proper finished
cross-section (1x3 and 1x2). Still, I think I could have sanded the
uncut stock.

Stack several pieces together on a flat surface. On both sides of the
stack lay a longer piece of wood, thinner than the stack. Use a bar
clamp on both ends of the boards to squeeze every thing together.

I set up something similar without clamps, a four-sided "corral" made of
thinner stock (1/2" ply) screwed into the work surface. The pieces fit
in it snugly. It may work out.

Or lay them all down on double stick tape

Or http://www.jettools.com/us/en/p/10-2...-sander/628900

Extravagant for a guy who doesn't even have a table saw.

Definitely use all of your sanders with different grits attached.

I just unearthed a third sander. I may indeed use three sanders and
avoid changing paper entirely, but we'll see how well the "new" (circa
1970 I'm guessing) one works.





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On 6/22/14 5:55 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/22/2014 8:44 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
The last couple of weekends have been busy and thus unproductive
woodworking-wise. I'm trying to come up with an efficient regime to sand
the lots and lots of repetitive parts that make up the two shelf units
I'm building.

I made myself a little "corral" just big enough to immobilize four 9" x
1.5" pieces at a time (four 1/2" ply "fences" in a rectangle) for
sanding. I will probably do something similar for the other size parts.
Per advice here (distilled from several posters) I'm going to use (at
least) 120 and 150 grit. The project is made of standard Lowe's-issue
S4S red oak.

Sand the pieces in larger sections "before" you cut them apart. Sand a
9" x 7" piece first then rip them apart. Now you only have a half the
edges to sand.

Stack several pieces together on a flat surface. On both sides of the
stack lay a longer piece of wood, thinner than the stack. Use a bar
clamp on both ends of the boards to squeeze every thing together.

Amen to this!
I do this often for end grain on shelves and such. It also has the
benefit of avoiding rounding over the edges.

-BR


Or lay them all down on double stick tape

Or http://www.jettools.com/us/en/p/10-2...-sander/628900

Definitely use all of your sanders with different grits attached.



I have a random orbit sander and an old (1960's vintage, chrome)
third-sheet finish sander. I'm wondering if I could possibly streamline
the process by using both. I know it's easy enough to slap on another
hook and loop disk, but I'll be doing that every minute or two, or
alternatively setting up each batch of parts twice (or 3 times).

If I can get good results using the finish sander for the finer grit, or
possibly even for only the 180 if I decide that's necessary, it could
save me from having to repeat one little irritating step over and over.

I can imagine several possible flaws in this plan, but I really don't
have enough experience to know how much of a problem any of them would
be. Until recently, finish sanders were all I had. Of course, my
previous projects were composed mostly of plywood.

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On Sunday, June 22, 2014 6:44:23 AM UTC-7, Greg Guarino wrote:
The last couple of weekends have been busy and thus unproductive

woodworking-wise. I'm trying to come up with an efficient regime to sand

the lots and lots of repetitive parts that make up the two shelf units

I'm building.



I made myself a little "corral" just big enough to immobilize four 9" x

1.5" pieces at a time (four 1/2" ply "fences" in a rectangle) for

sanding. I will probably do something similar for the other size parts.

Per advice here (distilled from several posters) I'm going to use (at

least) 120 and 150 grit. The project is made of standard Lowe's-issue

S4S red oak.



I have a random orbit sander and an old (1960's vintage, chrome)

third-sheet finish sander. I'm wondering if I could possibly streamline

the process by using both. I know it's easy enough to slap on another

hook and loop disk, but I'll be doing that every minute or two, or

alternatively setting up each batch of parts twice (or 3 times).



If I can get good results using the finish sander for the finer grit, or

possibly even for only the 180 if I decide that's necessary, it could

save me from having to repeat one little irritating step over and over.



I can imagine several possible flaws in this plan, but I really don't

have enough experience to know how much of a problem any of them would

be. Until recently, finish sanders were all I had. Of course, my

previous projects were composed mostly of plywood.



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Wll, around my shop you will find those hard rubber sanding blocks with labels painted on them of 100, 150, 220. I have at least two complete sets. Keeping fresh paper on these you can sand just as fast, stay with the grain swap grits in a second by dropping one block and grabbing the next.

For all projects, I power sand all the lumber to 150 after thicknessing is done and before cutting parts. I do the same for ply. I always start with 100.