On 4/28/2012 3:40 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 12:32:03 -0500, wrote:

On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 4/28/12 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
making doors and windows for chicken coops:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...89345052179698



Love the plywood I-beams.

Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
imagination.

Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.

I think I even have Leon making some now.

Yeah, they're pretty cool, + considerably lighter than steel I-beams.
Do you wax them to keep finishes from sticking?

??? Can't say I have ever had a problem with a finish sticking to any
thing to the point that it was a problem... Then again my finishes go on
thin and absolutely with out runs. I use Gel varnishes and can varnish
one side. immediately flip it and put it down on the work surface to do
the other side.






--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On 4/28/2012 9:55 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 12:32:03 -0500, wrote:
Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
imagination.

Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.

I think I even have Leon making some now.

I can't wait to see how Leon incorporates his pinned Domino
construction into them.

They are already done and I think IIRC used brad nails and glue. LOL

On 4/28/2012 9:52 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:26:03 -0500, wrote:
Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
making doors and windows for chicken coops:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...89345052179698

Chicken coops? That's a little bit out of your field aren't they?
Maybe they're just an agreed to project to keep on the good side of
customers?

I think he builds them for a strength building exercise. Like lifting a
house.

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:28:44 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/28/2012 9:52 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:26:03 -0500, wrote:
Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
making doors and windows for chicken coops:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...89345052179698

Chicken coops? That's a little bit out of your field aren't they?
Maybe they're just an agreed to project to keep on the good side of
customers?

I think he builds them for a strength building exercise. Like lifting a
house.

I don't think Dave understands that those little things go for between
$600 and $900 apiece. There's a decent profit in them, thanks to the
Yuppies.

--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 07:46:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/28/2012 3:40 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 12:32:03 -0500, wrote:

On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 4/28/12 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
making doors and windows for chicken coops:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...89345052179698



Love the plywood I-beams.

Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
imagination.

Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.

I think I even have Leon making some now.

Yeah, they're pretty cool, + considerably lighter than steel I-beams.
Do you wax them to keep finishes from sticking?

??? Can't say I have ever had a problem with a finish sticking to any
thing to the point that it was a problem... Then again my finishes go on
thin and absolutely with out runs. I use Gel varnishes and can varnish
one side. immediately flip it and put it down on the work surface to do
the other side.

When, during Texas summers? Waterlox takes 15 minutes to dry to the
touch, but I wouldn't dream of tipping a freshly finished piece on a
finished side even then. Are you talking about cabinet sides which
will be screwed together?

--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On 4/29/2012 8:36 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 07:46:12 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/28/2012 3:40 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 12:32:03 -0500, wrote:

On 4/28/2012 12:18 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 4/28/12 11:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
Hate to mention it, but I use a Festool TS75 to do this very thing for
making doors and windows for chicken coops:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...89345052179698



Love the plywood I-beams.

Keep six of them around all the time, all the same height no matter
which side up ... the uses to which they can be put is limited only by
imagination.

Worth giving up a bit of limited shop space many times over.

I think I even have Leon making some now.

Yeah, they're pretty cool, + considerably lighter than steel I-beams.
Do you wax them to keep finishes from sticking?

??? Can't say I have ever had a problem with a finish sticking to any
thing to the point that it was a problem... Then again my finishes go on
thin and absolutely with out runs. I use Gel varnishes and can varnish
one side. immediately flip it and put it down on the work surface to do
the other side.

When, during Texas summers? Waterlox takes 15 minutes to dry to the
touch, but I wouldn't dream of tipping a freshly finished piece on a
finished side even then. Are you talking about cabinet sides which
will be screwed together?



Any time of year and any piece, cabinet sides inner and outer sides,
door fronts and backs, totally covered in one application per coat.

Now mind you I don't let them stay against a particular flat surface
while curing, only during application.
After application I typically stand them up on the floor and leaning up
against an object to let there be full ventilation on all sides. I
might be working on 15~20 pieces at one time.

-MIKE- wrote in
:



With a jig saw, it helps to sharpen the tip. You really have to pull
forward while plunging to help stop it from pushing forward. I've done
it and can get it pretty clean most of the time, but it's not
something I'd want to "have to" do.



I wonder if cutting a thinner slot using something like the HF multitool
then plunging the jigsaw into that slot would help things out. Sometimes
it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Of course, the easiest way to avoid the need for plunging is to make one
continuous cut. I could round the corners and avoid the whole plunging
issue all together. I'm reasonably certain the jigsaw will cut a penny-
sized curve without trouble.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 4/29/2012 12:53 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

I wonder if cutting a thinner slot using something like the HF multitool
then plunging the jigsaw into that slot would help things out. Sometimes
it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Kerf size is different isn't it?

Of course, the easiest way to avoid the need for plunging is to make one
continuous cut. I could round the corners and avoid the whole plunging
issue all together. I'm reasonably certain the jigsaw will cut a penny-
sized curve without trouble.

So, how you planning to start the cut without marring either the cutout
and/or the remaining "frame"?

Depends upon the quality of level of cut you're willing to settle for.

Even with a good jig saw you are most likely going to have to dress up
both sides of the cut around both the door and the remaining cabinet
"frame", meaning your gap may get bigger than you originally intended
.... and IME, it's hard to do that cleanup in a consistent manner with
regard to material removed.

If you're willing to settle for an inset gap of say +/- 1/4" (or more),
a top of the line well setup jig saw with new blades, and enough
material on hand to burn few attempts, will most likely work ... but you
may still be dissatisfied with the overall gap consistency from door to
door on project involving other than just a one-off door and frame.

Obviously, and I'm not being condescending, you will want to do some
practice runs and jig up for the job.

AAMOF, any jig/feature you can cobble up that will keep your jig saw
running straight, true, and perpendicular (if that's what you want) to
the surface will increase your chances of success immeasurably and may
well be the key(s) to the kingdom.

Certainly worth a try to see what your equipment, and your jig making
skills can accomplish ... who knows, there may never be anything other
than a jig saw necessary to your future woodworking successes.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Swingman wrote in
:

On 4/29/2012 12:53 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

I wonder if cutting a thinner slot using something like the HF
multitool then plunging the jigsaw into that slot would help things
out. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Kerf size is different isn't it?

Yes. (That's also the problem with plunging with a circular saw and
finishing with a jigsaw.)

However, the multitool kerf should be smaller than the jigsaw, so that
initial slot can be used as a guide for the jigsaw blade to plunge
straight. It's like drilling a 1/16" hole before drilling a much larger
hole.

Of course, the easiest way to avoid the need for plunging is to make
one continuous cut. I could round the corners and avoid the whole
plunging issue all together. I'm reasonably certain the jigsaw will
cut a penny- sized curve without trouble.

So, how you planning to start the cut without marring either the
cutout and/or the remaining "frame"?

Depends upon the quality of level of cut you're willing to settle for.

I can start at the bottom and cut around. There's already a shelf
installed, the cabinet frame will be built on top of that.

Since it's shop furniture, I always attempt to get the best quality cut
but accept much less.

Even with a good jig saw you are most likely going to have to dress up
both sides of the cut around both the door and the remaining cabinet
"frame", meaning your gap may get bigger than you originally intended
... and IME, it's hard to do that cleanup in a consistent manner with
regard to material removed.

If you're willing to settle for an inset gap of say +/- 1/4" (or
more), a top of the line well setup jig saw with new blades, and
enough material on hand to burn few attempts, will most likely work
... but you may still be dissatisfied with the overall gap consistency
from door to door on project involving other than just a one-off door
and frame.

Obviously, and I'm not being condescending, you will want to do some
practice runs and jig up for the job.

I can use the same aluminum guide for the jigsaw as I do the circular
saw. Cutting curves would be a bit of an issue for a jig, but I'll
probably freehand those.

There's only going to be 4 doors, so using anything more than the guide
probably wouldn't be worth it.

AAMOF, any jig/feature you can cobble up that will keep your jig saw
running straight, true, and perpendicular (if that's what you want) to
the surface will increase your chances of success immeasurably and may
well be the key(s) to the kingdom.

Certainly worth a try to see what your equipment, and your jig making
skills can accomplish ... who knows, there may never be anything other
than a jig saw necessary to your future woodworking successes.


I trust the saw to run straight and true, I've used it in the past and
it's always done it. Any mistakes are my fault. Good tools are the
first key to woodworking success. :-)

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 4/29/12 4:35 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in
:

On 4/29/2012 12:53 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

I wonder if cutting a thinner slot using something like the HF
multitool then plunging the jigsaw into that slot would help things
out. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Kerf size is different isn't it?

Yes. (That's also the problem with plunging with a circular saw and
finishing with a jigsaw.)


Multitool fine blade on both edges of the kerf.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:19:43 -0500, Swingman wrote:
There is a large "urban farming" movement in the Austin area, including
the raising of hens in small, urban backyards. Many of these folks are
indeed 30 something yuppies, most in the tech industry and with money to
spare, and want structures that don't detract from the neighborhood, or
look like a funky chicken coop, although that is the actual name of
their annual tour:

Different locale, different perspectives I guess. A couple of months
back there was a drive by a group wanting legalize chicken raising in
the Toronto area. It was shot down in a pile of feathers.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01...-defers-study/

On 4/29/2012 6:27 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:19:43 -0500, wrote:
There is a large "urban farming" movement in the Austin area, including
the raising of hens in small, urban backyards. Many of these folks are
indeed 30 something yuppies, most in the tech industry and with money to
spare, and want structures that don't detract from the neighborhood, or
look like a funky chicken coop, although that is the actual name of
their annual tour:

Different locale, different perspectives I guess. A couple of months
back there was a drive by a group wanting legalize chicken raising in
the Toronto area. It was shot down in a pile of feathers.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01...-defers-study/

"Let them grow tomatoes.", eh?

The pious and unmitigated arrogance manifested in the quotes from those
two committee MF's is reprehensible to the max.

The folks in Austin are largely progressives, but apparently with a lot
less tolerance to allowing busybodies to rule their lives.

Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
picking liberal hearts.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 4/29/2012 6:06 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 4/29/12 4:35 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in
:

On 4/29/2012 12:53 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

I wonder if cutting a thinner slot using something like the HF
multitool then plunging the jigsaw into that slot would help things
out. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Kerf size is different isn't it?

Yes. (That's also the problem with plunging with a circular saw and
finishing with a jigsaw.)


Multitool fine blade on both edges of the kerf.

Not saying that this is not doable, but in the sum total of my
experience with cabinets and doors (particularly if a consistent
finished edge on both components, with a consistent inset gap is
desirable) it is a helluva lot more efficient, in materials and time, to
build face frames and fit the doors, than it is to do cutout doors in a
front panel with a jig saw in an attempt to save time and effort
applying hinges.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:41:29 -0500, Swingman wrote:
Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
picking liberal hearts.

Actually, I support the ban against chicken raising, but for a
different reason. My first reason is personal.

Because of an infestation of pigeons on all balconies in my apartment
building, I've developed a hatred for birds of all types. The damn
birds made the balconies literally unusable. About ten years ago, the
building management netted the balconies to fix the bird problem, but
that didn't alleviate my hatred much.

My second reason is practical. I don't know about population attitudes
in Texas, but too many people are irresponsible here as far as I'm
concerned. Assuming chicken raising was permitted, I'd expect loose
chickens and other sorts of farm animals to be scavenging on the
streets within a few years. People would flock to chicken raising with
makeshift, ineffective cages and then dump the chickens on the street
when they decided they were tired with it.

No thanks. Cities are not suitable habitats for farm animals of any
type.

On 4/29/2012 8:08 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:41:29 -0500, wrote:
Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
picking liberal hearts.

Actually, I support the ban against chicken raising, but for a
different reason. My first reason is personal.

No thanks. Cities are not suitable habitats for farm animals of any
type.

Appreciate your feelings, and support your rights to have, hold and
express them, just do us all down here a favor and PLEASE don't move to
Texas!

And may times never get so troubled as to cause you to rue your words ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:22:32 -0500, Swingman wrote:
Appreciate your feelings, and support your rights to have, hold and
express them, just do us all down here a favor and PLEASE don't move to
Texas!

That might be a problem. I *was* thinking how nice it would be to move
down to Texas, midway between you and Leon's place.

You could build my house, Leon could build the interior cabinetry.
And, I could ambush the two of you for some tool every morning the two
of you meet to exchange borrowed tools.

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:22:32 -0500, Swingman wrote:
And may times never get so troubled as to cause you to rue your words ...

Unfortunately, my health problems force me to stay within easy reach
of a large metropolitan hospital. If I was healthier, I might well be
living in or near some rural community and I'd like it. But, it's just
not to be.

On 4/29/2012 8:29 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:22:32 -0500, wrote:
Appreciate your feelings, and support your rights to have, hold and
express them, just do us all down here a favor and PLEASE don't move to
Texas!

That might be a problem. I *was* thinking how nice it would be to move
down to Texas, midway between you and Leon's place.

You could build my house, Leon could build the interior cabinetry.
And, I could ambush the two of you for some tool every morning the two
of you meet to exchange borrowed tools.

LOL ... sounds like a good plan to me!

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:39:23 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/29/2012 8:36 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 07:46:12 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/28/2012 3:40 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Yeah, they're pretty cool, + considerably lighter than steel I-beams.
Do you wax them to keep finishes from sticking?

??? Can't say I have ever had a problem with a finish sticking to any
thing to the point that it was a problem... Then again my finishes go on
thin and absolutely with out runs. I use Gel varnishes and can varnish
one side. immediately flip it and put it down on the work surface to do
the other side.

When, during Texas summers? Waterlox takes 15 minutes to dry to the
touch, but I wouldn't dream of tipping a freshly finished piece on a
finished side even then. Are you talking about cabinet sides which
will be screwed together?

Any time of year and any piece, cabinet sides inner and outer sides,
door fronts and backs, totally covered in one application per coat.

Now mind you I don't let them stay against a particular flat surface
while curing, only during application.
After application I typically stand them up on the floor and leaning up
against an object to let there be full ventilation on all sides. I
might be working on 15~20 pieces at one time.

Oh, OK. But, still, it's amazing that it doesn't stick even during a
few minute rest on the fresh finish.

--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On 4/29/2012 8:33 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:22:32 -0500, wrote:
And may times never get so troubled as to cause you to rue your words ...

Unfortunately, my health problems force me to stay within easy reach
of a large metropolitan hospital. If I was healthier, I might well be
living in or near some rural community and I'd like it. But, it's just
not to be.

That's not uncommon happenstance among an aging population down here
(not to infer you're remotely in that category). Most of my
acquaintances are realizing that their plans to retire into a country
life would most likely be short lived for health reasons, and have
therefore decided to stay put to be close to medical facilities ... an
unanticipated side effect, along with the economy, has been a marked
increase in remodeling existing homes for that very eventuality.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 4/29/2012 10:22 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:19:43 -0500, wrote:


Not to mention that they are considered "portable", and wrestling these
thing around by yourself during the build does not get easier the older
you get.

Tell me about it. I'm still fairly strong, but it's fadin', and I
haven't even hit 60 yet.

That slope gets steeper and slipperier. I used to carry a tons worth of
feed, two one hundred pound sacks at a time, 1/4" mile to the barn, in
rubber boots, in ankle deep mud, after a big rain when the feed trucks
couldn't make it all the way in.

Now I find myself looking for someone to help me shift a sheet of 3/4"
ply ... I can still do it, but I might pay for it for a couple of weeks.

I finally got some non-narcotic pain meds from the doctor to keep me
afloat, and my energy is up as a result.

If you don't mind asking, what is it? I just got scolded and taken off
OTC ibuprofen, which had me convinced I was twenty years younger.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Dave wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:41:29 -0500, Swingman wrote:
Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little
pea picking liberal hearts.

Actually, I support the ban against chicken raising, but for a
different reason. My first reason is personal.

Because of an infestation of pigeons on all balconies in my apartment
building, I've developed a hatred for birds of all types. The damn
birds made the balconies literally unusable. About ten years ago, the
building management netted the balconies to fix the bird problem, but
that didn't alleviate my hatred much.

My second reason is practical. I don't know about population attitudes
in Texas, but too many people are irresponsible here as far as I'm
concerned. Assuming chicken raising was permitted, I'd expect loose
chickens and other sorts of farm animals to be scavenging on the
streets within a few years. People would flock to chicken raising with
makeshift, ineffective cages and then dump the chickens on the street
when they decided they were tired with it.

No thanks. Cities are not suitable habitats for farm animals of any
type.

Really Dave? You are spending time worrying about that?

--

-Mike-

On 4/29/12 7:57 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/29/2012 6:06 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 4/29/12 4:35 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
wrote in
:

On 4/29/2012 12:53 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

I wonder if cutting a thinner slot using something like the HF
multitool then plunging the jigsaw into that slot would help things
out. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Kerf size is different isn't it?

Yes. (That's also the problem with plunging with a circular saw and
finishing with a jigsaw.)


Multitool fine blade on both edges of the kerf.

Not saying that this is not doable, but in the sum total of my
experience with cabinets and doors (particularly if a consistent
finished edge on both components, with a consistent inset gap is
desirable) it is a helluva lot more efficient, in materials and time, to
build face frames and fit the doors, than it is to do cutout doors in a
front panel with a jig saw in an attempt to save time and effort
applying hinges.


Well, duh. But we were talking about it, so hey. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 00:05:29 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
No thanks. Cities are not suitable habitats for farm animals of any
type.

Really Dave? You are spending time worrying about that?

Worrying about it? No, I have more important things to worry about. I
just happen to be opinionated about certain topics on occasion.

On 4/29/2012 10:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:39:23 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/29/2012 8:36 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 07:46:12 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/28/2012 3:40 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Yeah, they're pretty cool, + considerably lighter than steel I-beams.
Do you wax them to keep finishes from sticking?

??? Can't say I have ever had a problem with a finish sticking to any
thing to the point that it was a problem... Then again my finishes go on
thin and absolutely with out runs. I use Gel varnishes and can varnish
one side. immediately flip it and put it down on the work surface to do
the other side.

When, during Texas summers? Waterlox takes 15 minutes to dry to the
touch, but I wouldn't dream of tipping a freshly finished piece on a
finished side even then. Are you talking about cabinet sides which
will be screwed together?

Any time of year and any piece, cabinet sides inner and outer sides,
door fronts and backs, totally covered in one application per coat.

Now mind you I don't let them stay against a particular flat surface
while curing, only during application.
After application I typically stand them up on the floor and leaning up
against an object to let there be full ventilation on all sides. I
might be working on 15~20 pieces at one time.

Oh, OK. But, still, it's amazing that it doesn't stick even during a
few minute rest on the fresh finish.

--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

By the same token, dust is really not an issue either.

You should give gel stains and varnishes a try. Old Masters is a pretty
good brand, read and follow the directions on the can.

Or basically, apply how ever you want to do so and wipe off
"immediately". 10 or so minutes later wipe again with a fresh clean
cloth. Let dry 4~8 hours and repeat 2 or more times.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 06:32:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/29/2012 10:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Oh, OK. But, still, it's amazing that it doesn't stick even during a
few minute rest on the fresh finish.


By the same token, dust is really not an issue either.

You should give gel stains and varnishes a try. Old Masters is a pretty
good brand, read and follow the directions on the can.

Or basically, apply how ever you want to do so and wipe off
"immediately". 10 or so minutes later wipe again with a fresh clean
cloth. Let dry 4~8 hours and repeat 2 or more times.

OK, now it sounds more realistic. I use Waterlox, also a wiping
varnish, but an oil-based liquid, not a gel. It could be used exactly
the way you described the _second_ time. Your first post indicated
that it was an apply/wipeoff one-time finish. Here you describe it
better.

And if I ever find something Waterlox doesn't work well on, I may give
Old Masters a try, but I'm not too keen on poly. Wiping varnishes have
the advantage that they -don't- feel plasticky, as brushed varnishes
do when they contain poly.

I tried Behlen's Rock Hard Tabletop varnish on my current dining set,
and it was OK, but I really prefer a less-glossy finish on most
everything. The 'hand' Waterlox gives is better, too. As an old
girlfriend described it, "It's like a good condom. You can still feel
the sensuous presence of the wood underneath." chuckle

--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On 4/30/2012 9:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 06:32:06 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/29/2012 10:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Oh, OK. But, still, it's amazing that it doesn't stick even during a
few minute rest on the fresh finish.


By the same token, dust is really not an issue either.

You should give gel stains and varnishes a try. Old Masters is a pretty
good brand, read and follow the directions on the can.

Or basically, apply how ever you want to do so and wipe off
"immediately". 10 or so minutes later wipe again with a fresh clean
cloth. Let dry 4~8 hours and repeat 2 or more times.

OK, now it sounds more realistic. I use Waterlox, also a wiping
varnish, but an oil-based liquid, not a gel. It could be used exactly
the way you described the _second_ time. Your first post indicated
that it was an apply/wipeoff one-time finish. Here you describe it
better.

And if I ever find something Waterlox doesn't work well on, I may give
Old Masters a try, but I'm not too keen on poly. Wiping varnishes have
the advantage that they -don't- feel plasticky, as brushed varnishes
do when they contain poly.

I tried Behlen's Rock Hard Tabletop varnish on my current dining set,
and it was OK, but I really prefer a less-glossy finish on most
everything. The 'hand' Waterlox gives is better, too. As an old
girlfriend described it, "It's like a good condom. You can still feel
the sensuous presence of the wood underneath."chuckle

All gel's" those that I have seen" are all satin finish, and yes you
want to touch the finish. Swingman and Nailshooter both have enjoyed,
how shall I put this, touching the wood. LOL

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:37:57 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 4/29/2012 10:22 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:19:43 -0500, wrote:


Not to mention that they are considered "portable", and wrestling these
thing around by yourself during the build does not get easier the older
you get.

Tell me about it. I'm still fairly strong, but it's fadin', and I
haven't even hit 60 yet.

That slope gets steeper and slipperier.

Tell me about it. I work mostly for seniors, and I hear that every
day, even when I'm not watching my own trajectory.


I used to carry a tons worth of
feed, two one hundred pound sacks at a time, 1/4" mile to the barn, in
rubber boots, in ankle deep mud, after a big rain when the feed trucks
couldn't make it all the way in.

Joys! I used to throw transmissions and differentials around by
myself.


Now I find myself looking for someone to help me shift a sheet of 3/4"
ply ... I can still do it, but I might pay for it for a couple of weeks.

I finally got some non-narcotic pain meds from the doctor to keep me
afloat, and my energy is up as a result.

If you don't mind asking, what is it? I just got scolded and taken off
OTC ibuprofen, which had me convinced I was twenty years younger.

I was given some vicodin by the dentist for some ongoing work he was
doing, then he got worried that I'd be addicted and switched me to
Ultracet, a mix of Tramadol and Acetaminophen. Those cost a buck a
pill (ouch!), but worked nearly as well as the opiate with
considerably less stomach discomfort/nausea. I liked it better.

So, when my MD forced me off the 6-8 a day ibuprofens (high blood
pressure), I asked for a non-narcotic painkiller. When she suggested
Tramadol, I told her that I was familiar with it. The straight generic
50mg Tramadol is under seven cents a pill and works better than the
pricy stuff did. It also messes with your head less. Since I don't
feel my osteoarthritic pain as much, I have a higher level of energy
than I did. It's not perfect, but it's a real relief.

By eating more varied foods and watching my portions, I have lost 15
pounds in the 3 months since the doc said she'd like me to lose ten
pounds for my BP. I want to lose 20 more, getting back to about what I
weighed in high school, and I'm on track for that.


--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:32:09 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/30/2012 9:00 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 06:32:06 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/29/2012 10:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Oh, OK. But, still, it's amazing that it doesn't stick even during a
few minute rest on the fresh finish.


By the same token, dust is really not an issue either.

You should give gel stains and varnishes a try. Old Masters is a pretty
good brand, read and follow the directions on the can.

Or basically, apply how ever you want to do so and wipe off
"immediately". 10 or so minutes later wipe again with a fresh clean
cloth. Let dry 4~8 hours and repeat 2 or more times.

OK, now it sounds more realistic. I use Waterlox, also a wiping
varnish, but an oil-based liquid, not a gel. It could be used exactly
the way you described the _second_ time. Your first post indicated
that it was an apply/wipeoff one-time finish. Here you describe it
better.

And if I ever find something Waterlox doesn't work well on, I may give
Old Masters a try, but I'm not too keen on poly. Wiping varnishes have
the advantage that they -don't- feel plasticky, as brushed varnishes
do when they contain poly.

I tried Behlen's Rock Hard Tabletop varnish on my current dining set,
and it was OK, but I really prefer a less-glossy finish on most
everything. The 'hand' Waterlox gives is better, too. As an old
girlfriend described it, "It's like a good condom. You can still feel
the sensuous presence of the wood underneath."chuckle

All gel's" those that I have seen" are all satin finish,

Some are glossier than others, and some mfgr ratings of "satin" are
more like a "semi-gloss" to me. YMMV. I use Waterlox Original in
Satin. Most of the wipe-ons will go more glossy with more coats,
despite any "satin" reference.


and yes you
want to touch the finish. Swingman and Nailshooter both have enjoyed,
how shall I put this, touching the wood. LOL

"Fondling the wood" is more evocative. domg

--
You never hear anyone say, 'Yeah, but it's a dry cold.'
-- Charles A. Budreau

On 4/29/2012 7:41 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/29/2012 6:27 PM, Dave wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:19:43 -0500, wrote:
There is a large "urban farming" movement in the Austin area, including
the raising of hens in small, urban backyards. Many of these folks are
indeed 30 something yuppies, most in the tech industry and with money to
spare, and want structures that don't detract from the neighborhood, or
look like a funky chicken coop, although that is the actual name of
their annual tour:

Different locale, different perspectives I guess. A couple of months
back there was a drive by a group wanting legalize chicken raising in
the Toronto area. It was shot down in a pile of feathers.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01...-defers-study/


Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
picking liberal hearts.


http://www.statesman.com/news/local/..._ece_frontpage

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Wed, 02 May 2012 18:50:42 -0500, Swingman wrote:
Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
picking liberal hearts.
http://www.statesman.com/news/local/..._ece_frontpage

I have to question how long it will last. Roosters crowing at sunrise
waking up everyone within earshot. Escaped hens roaming the streets,
feathers blowing everywhere. Bird poop is usually toxic so there may
be repercussions there.

Nope, I think it's a bad idea, at least in an urban environment.

On 5/2/2012 7:06 PM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2012 18:50:42 -0500, wrote:

Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
picking liberal hearts.
http://www.statesman.com/news/local/..._ece_frontpage

I have to question how long it will last. Roosters crowing at sunrise
waking up everyone within earshot. Escaped hens roaming the streets,
feathers blowing everywhere. Bird poop is usually toxic so there may
be repercussions there.

Nope, I think it's a bad idea, at least in an urban environment.


You missed the operative word ... "hens". Roosters are never allowed in
urban settings.

Hens "cluck" softly, they don't "crow", ND they don't roam as a rule
because they must be vigorously protected, by escape proof measures,
24/7, measures which keep the the real urban varmits, the feral cats,
coons, possums and hawks OUT, and the "hens" IN ... otherwise the
allowed eight hens won't last a single night.

Those pigeons really got to you, eh?

You've fallen into the same trap/mindset you accused Marlow of the other
night with regard to the FOG forum ... IOW, you have no real
understanding of the issues and reality of the situations.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Wed, 02 May 2012 21:19:36 -0500, Swingman wrote:

Those pigeons really got to you, eh?

You have no idea. I've been scarred for life from the damned flying
diapers.

You've fallen into the same trap/mindset you accused Marlow of the other
night with regard to the FOG forum ... IOW, you have no real
understanding of the issues and reality of the situations.

You're partially right, but in the past, I have visited the occasional
farm. Same conditions as the pigeons on my balcony. Bird poop and
feather fluff everywhere.

In any event, it's people I don't trust to be responsible if it came
down to hen ownership. *There*, I do have an understanding and
experience.

On Wed, 02 May 2012 21:19:36 -0500, Swingman wrote:
You've fallen into the same trap/mindset you accused Marlow of the other
night with regard to the FOG forum ... IOW, you have no real
understanding of the issues and reality of the situations.

Just so you know, I'm not completely heartless when it comes to birds.
*These* birds I was cheering for.
http://news.sympatico.ctv.ca/home/ba...ssing/39e79520

On 5/2/2012 9:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2012 21:19:36 -0500, wrote:

On 5/2/2012 7:06 PM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2012 18:50:42 -0500, wrote:

Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
picking liberal hearts.
http://www.statesman.com/news/local/..._ece_frontpage

I have to question how long it will last. Roosters crowing at sunrise
waking up everyone within earshot. Escaped hens roaming the streets,
feathers blowing everywhere. Bird poop is usually toxic so there may
be repercussions there.

Nope, I think it's a bad idea, at least in an urban environment.


You missed the operative word ... "hens". Roosters are never allowed in
urban settings.

Hens "cluck" softly, they don't "crow", ND they don't roam as a rule
because they must be vigorously protected, by escape proof measures,
24/7, measures which keep the the real urban varmits, the feral cats,
coons, possums and hawks OUT, and the "hens" IN ... otherwise the
allowed eight hens won't last a single night.

Hens cluck softly unless disturbed, when they let out some pretty loud
noises. Roosters are 100x worse, but hens are damned loud and I
wouldn't want any next door to me. Cats, dogs, raccoons, snakes, and
stray people can all make chickens go ape****, from my experience.
Come out the back door and let the screen door slam and you have
chickens heading for the trees. (not that they get there, with the
pinioned wings and all...)

I can't say that the noise of any hen or rooster for that matter is any
worse than a barking dog. Yes I have been around both and you simply
get used to the noise.

On Thu, 03 May 2012 06:53:51 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/2/2012 9:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2012 21:19:36 -0500, wrote:

On 5/2/2012 7:06 PM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2012 18:50:42 -0500, wrote:

Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
picking liberal hearts.
http://www.statesman.com/news/local/..._ece_frontpage

I have to question how long it will last. Roosters crowing at sunrise
waking up everyone within earshot. Escaped hens roaming the streets,
feathers blowing everywhere. Bird poop is usually toxic so there may
be repercussions there.

Nope, I think it's a bad idea, at least in an urban environment.


You missed the operative word ... "hens". Roosters are never allowed in
urban settings.

Hens "cluck" softly, they don't "crow", ND they don't roam as a rule
because they must be vigorously protected, by escape proof measures,
24/7, measures which keep the the real urban varmits, the feral cats,
coons, possums and hawks OUT, and the "hens" IN ... otherwise the
allowed eight hens won't last a single night.

Hens cluck softly unless disturbed, when they let out some pretty loud
noises. Roosters are 100x worse, but hens are damned loud and I
wouldn't want any next door to me. Cats, dogs, raccoons, snakes, and
stray people can all make chickens go ape****, from my experience.
Come out the back door and let the screen door slam and you have
chickens heading for the trees. (not that they get there, with the
pinioned wings and all...)

I can't say that the noise of any hen or rooster for that matter is any
worse than a barking dog. Yes I have been around both and you simply
get used to the noise.

I'll take a rooster over a barking dog -any- day. I've lived next to
both. Constant barking is not something sane people get used to. Nice
neighbors curb their dog's barking, but nowadays, most neighbors are
not nice. sigh

--
Aim for success, not perfection. Never give up your right
to be wrong, because then you will lose the ability to
learn new things and move forward with your life.
-- Dr. David M. Burns

On 5/2/2012 9:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2012 21:19:36 -0500, wrote:

On 5/2/2012 7:06 PM, Dave wrote:

Thought I would never say this, but you just made me a lot prouder of
our touchy, feely progressives here in Texas ... bless their little pea
picking liberal hearts.

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/..._ece_frontpage

I have to question how long it will last. Roosters crowing at sunrise
waking up everyone within earshot. Escaped hens roaming the streets,
feathers blowing everywhere. Bird poop is usually toxic so there may
be repercussions there.

Nope, I think it's a bad idea, at least in an urban environment.


You missed the operative word ... "hens". Roosters are never allowed in
urban settings.

Hens cluck softly unless disturbed, when they let out some pretty loud
noises. Roosters are 100x worse, but hens are damned loud and I
wouldn't want any next door to me.

Damned city wusses ... wouldn't know a Plymouth Rock from a White
Leghorn unless it was in a cartoon on TV.



So, C_Less ... all this Libertarian ranting is just that, as long as
_you_ get to decide who does what?

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 5/3/2012 4:16 AM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2012 21:19:36 -0500, wrote:
You've fallen into the same trap/mindset you accused Marlow of the other
night with regard to the FOG forum ... IOW, you have no real
understanding of the issues and reality of the situations.

Just so you know, I'm not completely heartless when it comes to birds.
*These* birds I was cheering for.

http://news.sympatico.ctv.ca/home/ba...ssing/39e79520

Just goes to shows you ... any country boy will tell you in a heartbeat
that ducks, and geese, are far far far more objectionable, and vile,
than any flock of hens that ever lived ... those cute little ducks will
make your pigeons look like altar boys.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Dave wrote:

In any event, it's people I don't trust to be responsible if it came
down to hen ownership. *There*, I do have an understanding and
experience.

So, you punish them all, instead of just the irresponsible ones.

--
www.ewoodshop.com

On Thu, 03 May 2012 08:13:40 -0500, Swingman wrote:
Just goes to shows you ... any country boy will tell you in a heartbeat
that ducks, and geese, are far far far more objectionable, and vile,
than any flock of hens that ever lived ... those cute little ducks will
make your pigeons look like altar boys.

I haven't had any real experience with ducks, but I have run into some
Canada Geese down at Toronto Island. The way those birds hiss at you
and then attack had me thinking I'd rather deal with a pit bull. Those
birds are *mean*.

It's also the reason why I stopped going down there a good ten years
ago. You couldn't go two feet in any direction without stepping in
goose ****. I've mentioned this previously, but it deserves mention
again.

Guess you can tell eh? I'm not a bird person.